published Wednesday, January 30th, 2013

Escape Plan

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

Egypt may remain in a simmering state of civil war for the foreseeable future. The conflict between the progressives who had hoped for a more open society and the religious right is intractable and Egypt simply may not be governable by either faction.

The old dictatorships throughout the Middle East, mostly client states of the big powers, have highly vulnerable young populations who want an undefined different life. The struggle to redefine themselves won't be pretty and may require several decades to sort itself out.

What the Middle East needs least of all are outside forces trying to pick winners and losers. The colonial powers of the West are held in low esteem and could best influence long-term outcomes by moral example, not by military intervention.

We will never win a war or make a friend with a drone. The new US policy of inserting Special Forces to launch "Lillypad" operations throughout Africa is counter-productive on its very face. While we may try to determine who the good guys are and then kill the oposition, the Chinese come in and build schools. Who wins the hearts and minds of the people?

Egypt is the most prominent present poster child for the convulsions that will grip the ME and Africa for a long, long time. The US should pull back and give these countries enough space to solve their own problems.

January 30, 2013 at 12:47 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

NOW WHAT?

A couple of years ago republicans were screaming because President Obama wasn’t adequately supporting our ally, Egyptian President Hosni Murbarak. Sure, he was often brutal but America doesn’t mind turning a blind eye to autocrats when it serves our best interests.

Think about Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddham Hussein or Condi Rice fawning over Gaddafi. Bullies make useful allies and Washington isn’t about to their back on this newly democratically elected president of Egypt.

In a nutshell, since Mohammed Morsi was elected six months ago he has governed like an Islamist fascist. Mubarak, by contrast, was merely a despotic tyrant. Protests are springing up across the country but weapons having been pouring in from Libya since the fall of Gaddafi and so far 60 protestors have been killed in clashes with riot police.

Elections are good, but outcomes are limited by the calibre of the candidates. Two years ago we didn’t really know who would emerge to lead Egypt. (We face a similar dilemma today in Syria.)

Morsi is now calling for a national dialogue but opposition leaders won’t sit down until parts of the new (fundamentalist) Islamic Constitution is rewritten. Morsi won’t budge.

Now What?

January 30, 2013 at 1:37 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I'm taking bets on how many times the word "Israel" (or any other word referring Israel including mentioning Netanyahu) is mentioned in this thread:

OVER/UNDER 25

January 30, 2013 at 1:43 a.m.
nucanuck said...

tu-quoque,

Consider that backing autocrats who rule by force lowers the US in the minds of the oppressed and enhances the opposition. We can no longer buy client states. If we don't lead by example, we won't lead at all. The days of corraling a country's corrupt leadership with a few planes and tanks are fading fast.

The blowback to our past policies is that often the other extreme comes to power when our autocrat fails. Over time, if left alone, most countries will work back toward the political center of their society.

The US core power since WWII has been economic. Military power follows economic power. As our economic power diminishes, so too will our military power diminish. Now is the time for the US to concentrate on rebuilding an economic powerhouse and a massive military is counter-productive to that goal,IMO.

Downsizing our military and pouring money into infra-structure will make us safer than droning the world to kill goat herders with hatred for the US.

January 30, 2013 at 2:20 a.m.
fairmon said...

A few hundred F-16 jets, 200 Bradly tanks and a few billion to the new egypt government should do it. WTF is our government doing? What are we requiring in exchange and what are the consequences if we don't get what we expect in return for this gift? Of course we can't reduce our military budget and pay for all the stuff we make and give to other countries. Are we trying to buy friendship? They don't like us, have never liked us and will never like us. They like draining our econmy for thier oil and we must like them doing that since we are doing nothing to change it. What happens if the Muslim brotherhood rulers can't get guns, bullets and bread?

January 30, 2013 at 3:33 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

What imprisons Egypt? Islam. Not religion or "the religious right" in the abstract; their particular problem is their doctrine that allah is simply one, all alone, dictating to one prophet/ruler, who dictates to the ruled. Christendom, acknowledging triune Jehovah, has diversity built right in, and sooner or later this comes out in societies influenced by Christianity. When Muslims ruled a nonMuslim majority and had to be careful--India, Spain, old Baghdad--diversity enabled a flourishing culture. Overwhelmingly Muslim countries tend to be tyrannical and unproductive. Western (Christendom) influence helps in some cases. If the Saudis are finally allowing elections, and a decade or so later letting women vote (but not drive), this does not come from finding new verses in the Koran; it comes from looking our way.

"Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ" ("Athanasian" Creed.) Islam also suffers from its supposed allah being far off, without empathy, rather than having become a particular human being "tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin"; from allah's mercy being capricious, rather than God being "just and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus" who in unexcellable love "died for our sins"; and in having a founder who died and stayed dead rather than one who "rose again on the third day" in unexcellable power as Jesus did, overturning the verdict of the only superpower of those days. (Peter Leithart offers a nice take on death penalty as appeal: we send the executed man to the Higher Court of triune Jehovah, where he'll do well if--and only if--Jesus is his Lawyer.)

May triune Jehovah deliver Egypt from the bondage and darkness of Islam, and deliver us from our different choice of sins (not thanking Him, not trusting Him, and not doing what He wants come to mind.)

January 30, 2013 at 3:35 a.m.
Easy123 said...

AndrewLohr,

"acknowledging triune Jehovah"

The Trinity doesn't make logical sense and the word "Jehovah" is a mistranslation of the word "Yahweh".

"If the Saudis are finally allowing elections, and a decade or so later letting women vote (but not drive), this does not come from finding new verses in the Koran; it comes from looking our way."

No, it doesn't. You obviously haven't read the Bible or you would know how much your god hates women.

"Islam also suffers from its supposed allah being far off, without empathy, rather than having become a particular human being "tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin""

How is that a disadvantage for Islam and an advantage for Christianity? There are far more Fundamental Muslims than Christians. Wouldn't it be the opposite if your assumption was true?

"from allah's mercy being capricious, rather than God being "just and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus" who in unexcellable love "died for our sins"; and in having a founder who died and stayed dead rather than one who "rose again on the third day" in unexcellable power as Jesus did, overturning the verdict of the only superpower of those days."

Again, this does not serve as proof that one religion is better than the other. These are just reasons you believe Christianity is better than Islam.

"May triune Jehovah deliver Egypt from the bondage and darkness of Islam, and deliver us from our different choice of sins (not thanking Him, not trusting Him, and not doing what He wants come to mind.)"

May logic and reason deliver you from the bondage and darkness of Christianity, and deliver us from the sanctimonious, religious babble that we have to suffer through daily.

January 30, 2013 at 5:03 a.m.
fairmon said...

easy123...Count the word each time it appears, including multiple times in one post, or any reference to Israel I will go with over.

We need to face the fact that Egypt is no longer a reliable ally. Russian planes and weapons are bought by the middle east and north Africa with foreign aid money from the U.S. and oil money. We have given most of them planes and weapons and foreign aid. STOP getting involved in the affairs of any other country for any reason. We are not and cannot afford to be the world police.

Americans and their leaders are not willing to accept the fact they no longer have the resources to do everything for everybody. Our leaders feel free, in fact obligated, to extract money from Americans to spend on and give to other countries while our own country crumbles.

January 30, 2013 at 7:26 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

If another country looks to us, what they admire is our constitution, not the bible.

January 30, 2013 at 7:27 a.m.
librul said...

Easy "prays" for Andrew:

"May logic and reason deliver you from the bondage and darkness of Christianity, and deliver us from the sanctimonious, religious babble that we have to suffer through daily."

This "prayer" applies to all those whose minds are in the pernicious grip of Abrahamic religions - just substitute the name of the appropriate sect.

Thanks, Easy.

January 30, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Trading out Allah for Jehovah only changes the tyrant's name. The Christian Reconstructionist Lorh is similar to a Muslim fanatic as both want the power to kill, enslave, and conquer infidels for an imaginary god's glory.

January 30, 2013 at 8:01 a.m.
Easy123 said...

daytonsdarwin,

The only difference between the two is the strictness to which many Muslims adhere to their holy book. Muslims are killing in the name of their religion. They are new kids on the block compared to Christians though. If you kill infidels in the name of your god, you're a "crazy" Muslim. If you kill Native Americans in the name of your religion, you're just Andrew Jackson. Both groups are equally deluded.

January 30, 2013 at 8:04 a.m.
joneses said...

Why has not obastard's media reported this? Oh, that is correct it is a dummycrap that has run afoul. By the way Fox News did not report it either so you Fox News haters should love that.

FBI Raids Doctor's Office Suspected Of Providing Prostitutes To Sen. Bob Menendez Miami Herald | Posted: 01/30/2013 7:58 am EST | Updated: 01/30/2013 7:58 am EST

Miami Herald:

FBI agents late Tuesday night raided the West Palm Beach business of an eye doctor suspected of providing free trips and even underage Dominican Republic prostitutes to U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J. -- who has denied what he calls the "fallacious allegations."

January 30, 2013 at 8:59 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

I bet Lindsey Grahman and other chicken-warhawks neocons are drooling this morning hoping to send US troops to Egypt. McCain can't be far behind, and Sarah Palin is checking geography books to find Egypt.

January 30, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.
Easy123 said...

joneses,

"Why has not obastard's media reported this?"

The story broke like 2 hours ago, nimrod. The media is reporting it. You just posted an excerpt from a report. Most of the other major news websites such as Huffington Post, CBS, Politico are featuring the story as well.

Think BEFORE you spew your ignorance.

January 30, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
Rebus said...

ddddaytondddddarwin: Nasty weather outside. Would suggest you not venture forth.

January 30, 2013 at 10:01 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Is Zeus patrolling Mt. Olympus with his lightning bolts, Jack_Rebus_Dennis?

January 30, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.
Rebus said...

ddddayton: Your fatwa on religion seems almost crusaderesque, Oh well, any cause can become subverted, eh dddayton?

January 30, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

I've been outside. Didn't see any gods, Mother Goose, or Pink Unicorns. I guess they're inside sipping hot chocolate with the Easter Bunny and Jesus.

January 30, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Not a fatwa on religion; a fatwa on ignorance when presented as historical facts.

January 30, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"So when Menendez resigns for fornicating with underage Dominican girls does that mean Chris Christi, the GOP governor of NJ, gets to appoint a Senator ?"

"...the governor makes an appointment to fill a U.S. Senate vacancy, and the appointee serves until the next regularly-scheduled, statewide general election".

Learn how to use the Interwebz.

January 30, 2013 at 10:32 a.m.
Rebus said...

Easy says "Learn how to use the Interwebz." Good suggestion from a kid that uses it for his entire slant on things.

JohnRoss: No predicting what Chris Christie would do.

ddddaayton: no, just another opinionated gas bag. that is thee. bwahahahaha

January 30, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Troll,

"Good suggestion from a kid that uses it for his entire slant on things."

Don't be jealous because I know how to use the Internet.

"No predicting what Chris Christie would do."

He has to appoint someone if there is a vacancy. Can't you read?

"just another opinionated gas bag"

Self-awareness from the artist formerly known as Jack_Dennis.

Bwa haha hahaha ha ! Or should I say "LMFOA"?

January 30, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"ddddaayton: no, just another opinionated gas bag. that is thee. bwahahahaha"

Then present your proof for God and Jesus. I'm not sure why you, Orr, Lorh, Conservative can't do so. It shouldn't be difficult if you have proof.

January 30, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Senator Larry Craig — Wide-Stance, Toe-Touching, Leg-Rubbing Republican for Glory Holes for Jesus.

January 30, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
Easy123 said...

JonRoss,

I'll expect a retraction when that story doesn't pan out.

No one should believe your Fascist propaganda. You have no credibility.

January 30, 2013 at 11:31 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

No one can prove that God exist, that is why they call it faith. If we could prove it then what would be the reason for faith.

By the same token, NO ONE can prove there is no God. Your discussions are useless to say the least.

On the subject of the cartoon, I said a couple of years ago that this was not going to turn out well for the Middle East. I believe I put it "the devil you know is often better than the devil you get". I believe that has come true.

January 30, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforjustice,

"If we could prove it then what would be the reason for faith."

"Faith" is just another word for "gullible". Name another area of your life where you accept something as fact on zero evidence.

"By the same token, NO ONE can prove there is no God."

Actually, one can disprove the god of the Bible and most other man-made god.

"Your discussions are useless to say the least."

It's probably the most pertinent discussion of all-time.

January 30, 2013 at 11:40 a.m.
Easy123 said...

JonRoss,

You're a murderer, a rapist and a thief.

January 30, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

You can say that we Christians are gullable all you want. It does not sway us in the least. That is why I said it is useless discussions. But by the same token I do believe you are correct that it is the most pertinent discussion of all time since where you will spend eternity is in question. Just because you don't believe the Truth does not make it any less true. I know you can say the same about the way I believe. Again that is why I say that it is useless. I am very happy in my faith or state of gulliblness as you say. I have a relationship with God that you could never understand unless you were to experience it yourself. You are amoung those that I pray for on this thread. Since you say that someone can disprove God then I challenge you to do so.

January 30, 2013 at 11:51 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

nurseforjustice said...

"No one can prove that God exist, that is why they call it faith. If we could prove it then what would be the reason for faith."

To keep the dollars rolling in and power for the priests, preachers, and politicians.

Thank you for proving my point.

Here's an example of your faith. I want everyone to start saying, "Praise the Pink Unicorn" instead of "Praise God" and "Praise Jesus."

Every time you feel the urge, pray to the "Pink Unicorn." As in "Our Pink Unicorn in Heaven" or In the name of our Lord and Savior Pink Unicorn."

When a plane crashes and all are killed but one say, "It's great how the "Pink Unicorn" saved him. Praise "Pink Unicorn."

When children are killed, tell the grieving parents, "It's the Pink Unicorn's will. Your dead babies are now little angels with the Pink Unicorn. The ways of the Pink Unicorn are mysterious. Blessed be the name of the Pink Unicorn."

On Sunday, have communion with the Pink Unicorn. Have crackers and say, "This is the body of Pink Unicorn." Then drink some grape juice or wine and say, "This is the blood of Pink Unicorn."

Tell stories about how the Pink Unicorn arose from the dead and went to heaven. About Pink Unicorn turning Elmer's glue into cotton candy. How the Pink Unicorn died for your sins. How the Pink Unicorn walked on water and raised My Little Pony from the grave.

Go to war for Pink Unicorn. Invade countries, torture and kill, and make slaves of infidels, all for the Glory of Pink Unicorn.

When a women is pregnant tell her that Pink Unicorn wants her to have the baby. That the embryos in her body belong to Pink Unicorn. That Pink Unicorn says she should be submissive to men.

Yes, sing praises to Pink Unicorn. Celebrate his birth, His death, and His resurrection. Go on missionary trips to convert others to the Pink Unicorn and how the Pink Unicorn has a plan for them. Ask them for tithes for the Pink Unicorn, so you can tell others about the Pink Unicorn.

And tell them when they die, if they've been believers in the Pink Unicorn they can go to heaven and be with the Pink Unicorn forever, and run and play in the corrals the Pink Unicorn has built for them.

Tell them that you have no proof of the Pink Unicorn, but faith in the Pink Unicorn is all they need.

That should do it. In the name of the Pink Unicorn, Amen!

January 30, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforjustice,

"You can say that we Christians are gullable all you want. It does not sway us in the least."

I know it won't sway Christians. It's not intended to. I'm simply stating facts.

"Just because you don't believe the Truth does not make it any less true."

Just because you believe lies, myths and falsehoods doesn't make them any more true.

"I have a relationship with God that you could never understand unless you were to experience it yourself."

More proof of your delusion.

"You are amoung those that I pray for on this thread."

Please don't talk to yourself in your mind about me.

"Since you say that someone can disprove God then I challenge you to do so."

Challenge accepted.

http://www.the-atheist.com/logically-disproving-the-christian-god/

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/niclas_berggren/funda.html

January 30, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.
Easy123 said...

JonRoss,

LMFAO! Damn those facts! The economy has been improving since 2009!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/30/us-usa-economy-idUSBRE90T07520130130

January 30, 2013 at 12:24 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

To quote the author of the first story put out by Easy, "I think I’ve made a stronger argument, based on Christian beliefs, for the non existence of God than there ever has been for the existence of such a deity." Did you notice he said he "thinks"? I chose to believe in an infallible God instead of fallible science invented by fallible man. There is a big difference. Actually, HUGE is the word.

Again, these are useless discussions.

Easy said, "Just because you believe lies, myths and falsehoods doesn't make them any more true." Easy, I already said that I knew you could say the same thing about my faith. Again, useless.

Darwin, you can have the Pink Unicorn, I'll stick with Jesus. But thanks anyway.

Again, the big difference is that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with the God who did create the universe whether it was 10 billion years ago or 6500. The Bible actually does not give a timeline for creation except for the 7 days part. For all we know Adam and Eve could have been hundreds or thousands of years old, or maybe even millions before they sinned.

Just sayin'. =)

January 30, 2013 at 12:28 p.m.
Rebus said...

Easy is "proving" his case with web-sites! Go work on your zits, Easy, and leave the discussion to adults.

January 30, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

nurseforjustice said...

"Just sayin'"

Just saying I hope you have more practical skills as a nurse than reasoning skills for a Jehovah. You still haven't proved that Jehovah is anything other than imaginary.

But I'll ask Pink Unicorn to help you have faith in Him and come to have a special relationship with His Holy Pinkness. Praise Pink Unicorn.

January 30, 2013 at 12:38 p.m.
Rebus said...

The U.S. economy posted a stunning drop of 0.1 percent in the fourth quarter, defying expectations for slow growth and possibly providing incentive for more Federal Reserve stimulus.

change you can believe in 🎉

January 30, 2013 at 12:39 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforinjustice,

"Did you notice he said he "thinks"?"

And? Everyone thinks. What about the other 4 or 5 articles?

"I chose to believe in an infallible God instead of fallible science invented by fallible man. There is a big difference. Actually, HUGE is the word."

There is no proof of an infallible god. Fallibility is the crux of science. That's why we have the scientific method. There is a huge difference between something that exists and something that doesn't i.e. science and your god.

"Easy, I already said that I knew you could say the same thing about my faith. Again, useless."

Again, not my fault. You only say it is useless because you have no logical rebuttal.

"Darwin, you can have the Pink Unicorn, I'll stick with Jesus. But thanks anyway."

Your credibility and any shred of intelligence anyone thought you might have just went down the toilet.

"Again, the big difference is that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with the God who did create the universe whether it was 10 billion years ago or 6500."

Wrong. Christianity is a religion despite your misguided feelings to the contrary. Again, prove your god created the universe.

"The Bible actually does not give a timeline for creation except for the 7 days part."

You obviously haven't delved far enough into your Bible. The genealogies in Genesis 5 & 11 would set the earth's age at 6,000-10,000 years old.

"For all we know Adam and Eve could have been hundreds or thousands of years old, or maybe even millions before they sinned."

All while ignoring the facts of the Big Bang, evolution, natural selection, speciation, physics and many other things. But let's ignore that science stuff and just guess, right? You choose a 2,000 year old book of unsubstantiated, desert fairytales. I choose modern science. I win.

You ain't sayin' nothing, lady.

January 30, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.
Rebus said...

Easy says "You ain't sayin' nothing, lady." You've been saying nothing on here for months, easy-punk.

January 30, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis_Troll,

No, seriously, you haven't said anything of consequence here at any point in your posting history, you geriatric buffoon. LMFAO!

January 30, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

"Just saying I hope you have more practical skills as a nurse than reasoning skills for a Jehovah."

Darwin, thanks for bringing that up. You see it is my superb reasoning skills as a medical professional that makes me even more confident that we are created by God. Let's take just a small part of the human anatomy for example, the brain. The human brain is so complex that it helps me to know that it could not just have happened by some gaseous explosion and then "evolved" in to what we now have. That is terribly UNreasonable to believe.

Believing that we just happened along is like taking a watch apart and laying all the pieces on a table and waiting for them to just come together on their own. It will never happen because there has to be a designer.

"You still haven't proved that Jehovah is anything other than imaginary."

I never set out to prove anything. Pay attention to my first post. I told you that NO ONE can prove or disprove the existence of God. I stand by that statement.

January 30, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Waiting on the next offer of "proof" for Jehovah.

Lorh, Jack-Dennis, Conservative, Orr, Bueller?

January 30, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Easy, the only way you can "win" is by being right after you die. Unfortunately by then it will be too late for you to "win" if you have not placed your faith in Jesus.

And by the way, I ain't no lady. I am a dude. I stated this years ago on this thread and most people know it.

My credibility is simply your perspective. I don't mean to put words in her mouth but lkeithlu and I have had many of discussions like this without putting each other down. Too bad you can't say the same.

In my book that hurts your credibility.

January 30, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforjustice,

"You see it is my superb reasoning skills as a medical professional that makes me even more confident that we are created by God."

No, they don't. Using reason will never end up at god.

"The human brain is so complex that it helps me to know that it could not just have happened by some gaseous explosion and then "evolved" in to what we now have."

It's scientifically proven that our brains evolved.

"That is terribly UNreasonable to believe."

It's actually the epitome of reason to use facts and evidence to come to a conclusion. And all of the facts are against you.

"Believing that we just happened along is like taking a watch apart and laying all the pieces on a table and waiting for them to just come together on their own. It will never happen because there has to be a designer."

Then who created the designer? You have a long way to go, lady. You are using basic arguments that have been debunked many times over.

"I told you that NO ONE can prove or disprove the existence of God."

I literally just provided 4 articles and 3 videos that disprove your god.

"I stand by that statement."

Because you are a fool.

January 30, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforjustice,

"Easy, the only way you can "win" is by being right after you die. Unfortunately by then it will be too late for you to "win" if you have not placed your faith in Jesus."

No, logic and facts are not on your side. I don't have to wait until I die to know that the god of the Bible doesn't exist. Unfortunately, you're terminally delusional.

"And by the way, I ain't no lady. I am a dude. I stated this years ago on this thread and most people know it."

Pardon me, dude.

"My credibility is simply your perspective."

It really isn't. I'm basing your credibility on your own words. Nothing is implied.

"I don't mean to put words in her mouth but lkeithlu and I have had many of discussions like this without putting each other down. Too bad you can't say the same."

I haven't put you down at all. I've stated facts according to your words.

"In my book that hurts your credibility."

That might make sense if I actually put you down, but I haven't done so. I'm actually being exceedingly kind and civil to you. But, of course, you're trying to play the victim.

January 30, 2013 at 1:03 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Psalms 14:1 (NASB) The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

January 30, 2013 at 1:03 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

"Your credibility and any shred of intelligence anyone thought you might have just went down the toilet."

Easy that looks an aweful lot like a put down to me. I have never insulted your intelligence. But I am a big boy, I can take it.

I do prefer a discussion without put downs or insults though.

January 30, 2013 at 1:09 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it. Robert Green Ingersoll

January 30, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Deuteronomy 22:28 (NIV) If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

January 30, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.
Rebus said...

nurse: You're wasting your time with Easy. #1, he's a child. #2, he's dumb as a sled-load of shiz.

January 30, 2013 at 1:12 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforinjustice,

"Easy that looks an aweful lot like a put down to me."

Then you don't know what a put down is.

"I have never insulted your intelligence."

You shouldn't have said so many ignorant things and maybe I wouldn't have to insult your intelligence.

"But I am a big boy, I can take it."

Is that why you're whining about it?

"I do prefer a discussion without put downs or insults though."

I prefer discussions where people accept truth, facts, and evidence and don't attempt to debase SCIENCE. If you don't want your intelligence assessed negatively by others then don't say ignorant things.

January 30, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis_Troll,

You're wasting your time with me. #1, you're very, very old. #2, you're as dumb as a bag of hammers. See what I mean about posting stuff of no consequence? You're the one-liner troll.

January 30, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.
Easy123 said...

JonRoss,

I'll take that as a compliment coming from the most irrational person that posts here.

January 30, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

No one whining here. I don't know why I thought I could have a normal discussion on here with the likes of you hanging around..

I believe in my first post to Darwin I stated that this type of discussion was useless on here. Darwin, has anything I said helped you to change your mind? I doubt it. I know nothing you or Easy has said has changed mine. But I like sharing what I believe anyway so thanks for the opportunity.

January 30, 2013 at 1:27 p.m.
jesse said...

"a sled load of shiz"??LMAO!

An original rebus,NEVER heard that one before!!KUDOS!!

January 30, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
caddy said...

Spot on Andrew Lohr

All religions except for Christianity involve doing "things" to insure Salvation. For sure, there are elements within Christianity that would see that happening as well. Scripture would say they are false.

Isaiah 26:12 (ESV) Isa 26:12 (ESV) O LORD, you will ordain peace for us, for you have indeed done for us all our works.

Islam, like all false systems, are all about "doing things" to insure reward. Defective faith ( idolatrous faith ) seeks to reduce Biblical faith to man-centered minimum, salvation.

Islam seeks and desires theocracy, but a false god is no theocracy at all. It simply means having wickedness rule from the very top. Lacking "true faith" Islam is governed by a man-centered power structure, not the Triune God who Is.

The Arabs, like all men, complain about the unresponsiveness of their elected officials, and their subservience to their peers and superiors, but nothing will alter this fact other than a change in the faith of the electorate and the elected. Men will respond to and obey the dominant power in their lives, faith, and perspective. If that dominant power or god in their lives is the state, they will react to it. If it is man, or their own ego, they will be governed by it. If, however, it is the triune God of Scripture who rules them, then men will respond to and obey His law-word. Men will obey their gods.

Here in the West, unlike Islam, our God has become the state. Save for a remnant of Godly folk, the essence of America is humanism. Only the state is sovereign. The essence of humanism, from Francis Bacon to the present, has been his creed; to be human, man must be in control ( Jeremy Rifkin with Ted Howard: The Emerging Order, p. 27 ). This is an indirect way of saying that man is not man unless the government of all things is upon his shoulders, unless he is himself god. It is the expression of the tempter's program of revolt against God ( Genesis 3:5). John Locke developed this faith by insisting that Christianity is a private concern, not a public matter. Christianity could not be the basis of public activity but only a private faith. The foundation of the state and of public life was for Locke in reason.

But reason, separated from Christian faith and presupposition, became man's will, or, better, man's will in radical independence from God. the state then began to claim one area of life after another as public domain and hence under the state as reason incarnate.

"Men who fear the power of the state should remember that the more the state succeeds, the closer it comes to destroying itself." - R. J. Rushdoony

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." - Proverbs 1

January 30, 2013 at 1:29 p.m.
chatt_man said...

nurseforjustice - actually I could believe Easy, darwin, nooga, and liberal were created from a gaseous explosion, and they just never evolved...

January 30, 2013 at 1:32 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

" I am very happy in my faith or state of gullibleness as you say. I have a relationship with God that you could never understand unless you were to experience it yourself." - NFJ

Most agnostics/atheists, myself included, have had a "relationship with God" at some point in our past. I used to be a Christian but my inquisitive and reasoning mind realized that the Christian God doesn't make a bit of sense and is in fact a despicable being.

While you are correct in saying that nobody can really prove or disprove the existence of God, it is actually very easy to disprove the existence of the Christian concept of a God. Of course, one must have the common sense and reasoning faculties sufficient to acknowledge that science is valid and can be used as a gauge to help in that determination.

If your beliefs give you comfort and make you happy, then that is great. We all like to think that there is something/someone greater than ourselves and it's very hard and scary sometimes when we feel all alone in the vastness of the universe. As for those people who feel the need to pray, I certainly understand that. And those people who don't won't to accept that death might just be an eternal sleep and want to think that they will live beyond the grave, I certainly understand that, too. I think that we all should be able to believe in whatever gives us comfort in getting through this life. But when the particular God you choose to worship is one who is so small minded, petty, vindictive, and maniacal as to cast people like me into hell for all eternity just because I happen to believe differently from you, then that is where I call you out for your stupid, narrow-minded, hateful (yes, hateful) beliefs.

If you can believe in your God without that part about eternal hellfire and damnation for non-believers, I say more power to you. But the moment you throw in that crap about eternal suffering for non-Christians, then I say to hell with you and I cease respecting your petty, nonsensical religion.

Most Christians believe the way they do out of a fear of death and a neurotic desire to live forever. It is not love or the desire to live a moral, decent life that makes them be Christians but merely that fear of dying. And there is nothing moral or courageous about a religion that is based on fear, obedience, and blind faith.

January 30, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
Easy123 said...

chatt_man,

I could believe you're an absolute moron and demonstrably so.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and just how asinine your attempts at insults are. Better luck next time.

January 30, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Caddy quotes RJ Rushdoony. Here's a few more from Rushdoony.

"God in His law requires the death penalty for homosexuals."

"The state is a bankrupt institution. The only alternative to this bankrupt 'humanistic' system is a God-centered government."

"Segregation or separation is thus a basic principle of Biblical law with respect to religion and morality. Every attempt to destroy this principle is an effort to reduce society to its lowest common denominator. Toleration is the excuse under which this leveling is undertaken, but the concept of toleration conceals a radical intolerance. In the name of toleration, the believer is asked to associate on a common level of total acceptance with the atheist, the pervert, the criminal, and the adherents of other religions as though no differences existed."

"Biblical law permits voluntary slavery because it recognizes that some people are not able to maintain a position of independence . . . The law is humane and also unsentimental. It recognizes that some people are by nature slaves and will always be so."

"All who are content with a humanistic law system and do not strive to replace it with Biblical law are guilty of idolatry. They have forsaken the covenant of their God, and they are asking us to serve other gods. They are thus idolaters, and are, in our generation, when our world is idolatrous and our states also, to be objects of missionary activity. They must be called out of their idolatry into the service of the living God."

"God's covenant with Adam required him to exercise dominion over the earth and to subdue it (Gen. 1:26 ff) under God according to God's law-word. The restoration of that covenant relationship was the work of Christ, His grace to His elect people.The fulfillment of that covenant is their great commission: to subdue all things and all nations to Christ and His law-word.

Does this sound like America? Does this sound like liberty for all? This is what these Christian fanatics offer. American freedoms crushed by their desire to turn America into a dictatorial Christian Theocracy.

What's the difference between these Christian fanatics and Muslim fanatics wanting Sharia law?

More of Rushdoony's intolerance and craziness can be found here.

http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_RRushdoony.htm

Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing. More doubly aware when they carry a cross — the Christian noose isn't far behind.

January 30, 2013 at 1:42 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Oh, Easy, you could hurt someone'e feelings on here writing such things as you do... if anyone on here gave a crap about your opinions or thoughts.

Continue writing in bold, so it looks like you have something important to say, and we'll continue laughing at your immaturity.

January 30, 2013 at 1:45 p.m.
Easy123 said...

chatt_man

"Oh, Easy, you could hurt someone'e feelings on here writing such things as you do... if anyone on here gave a crap about your opinions or thoughts."

Who do you think cares about your opinions or thoughts? Certainly not I. But, for some reason, you always feel the need to comment about me. Very strange.

"Continue writing in bold, so it looks like you have something important to say, and we'll continue laughing at your immaturity."

Because typing in bold is so immature! You're a freaking moron beyond comprehension.

Keep typing in normal print like you have something important to say and I'll continue laughing at your immaturity...LMFAO!! See how stupid you sound? You have the wit of frozen yogurt.

January 30, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Well said Caddy.

Rickaroo, I am glad you can deal with peoples different beliefs, (to a certain extent) but again that does not help in the end. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, there is a death and a judgement. We are the ones that are chosing to sin against a HOLY GOD. Yet He has provided a way to escape the punishment He has decided on.

I think everyone can agree that our decisions have consequences, good or bad. Well the consequence of sin is death (or a spiritual separation from God), Hell as stated. God sent His Son to take our place so that we don't have to experience that separation. Jesus conquered death and hell when he rose from the grave 3 days later.

I thank God for that provision. I do not accept this out of fear but gratitude and I do try to live a Godly life here on this earth because this is what God desires. This is the relationship I spoke of earlier, not just Fire Insurance.

January 30, 2013 at 1:54 p.m.
Easy123 said...

nurseforjustice,

If I may quote Rickaroo:

"But when the particular God you choose to worship is one who is so small minded, petty, vindictive, and maniacal as to cast people like me into hell for all eternity just because I happen to believe differently from you, then that is where I call you out for your stupid, narrow-minded, hateful (yes, hateful) beliefs."

"But the moment you throw in that crap about eternal suffering for non-Christians, then I say to hell with you and I cease respecting your petty, nonsensical religion."

"Most Christians believe the way they do out of a fear of death and a neurotic desire to live forever. It is not love or the desire to live a moral, decent life that makes them be Christians but merely that fear of dying. And there is nothing moral or courageous about a religion that is based on fear, obedience, and blind faith."

You are deluded to the highest degree.

January 30, 2013 at 1:57 p.m.
caddy said...

What's true definition of "Liberty" ? Is it for the state to say, for the Individual ? I don't think so. True liberty is to be made the sons and daughters of God and to recognize sin for what it is and the bondage it causes. There was a reason for the harsh sentence of sinful behaviors in the O.T. Namely the consequences for sin and the harm they caused all who witnessed them were a cause for action. Trying to explain that to an atheist, however, is just not going to work. Why ? Why that's easy: He seems himself as "god" and what he says goes.

Funny thing: atheist are just as much "out of control" concerning things as believers: They did not control the day of their birth and they will not control the day they die. They will stand before an all Holy God and give an account of their lives.

Autonomy and understanding are mutually exclusive. We'll never get it until God humbles us. Rest assured: All men will eventually bow the knee to the one True God.

With that said: Freedom to do what we want--when we want--and with whom is not freedom, but anarchy. Now, you have choices: 1 ) God defines those things and we operate accordingly and are blessed and cursed accordingly 2) The state defines them 3) the Individual defines them.

Either the God who Is IS Sovereign or the State is or the individual.

Ancient Rome had more gods than current day America. It only demanded that at the end of the day you bow to Caesar. Ancient Rome regarded religion itself as a public domain and hence licensed and controlled it. ( The very word "liturgy"," Greek in origin, means public service. Religion is indeed a public concern, more so than the state, but not thereby a matter for statist control. Rome, like all ancient pagan states, equated the public domain with the state's domain, and it saw all things as aspects of the state's control.

January 30, 2013 at 2 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Easy, another example of your insecurity and immaturity is the way you childishly rewrite what someone else just wrote, and move a couple words around to fit your preference. Don't worry, as you get older you won't feel the need as bad to be the "big dude" in the room.

Easy, don't flatter yourself, the only reason I pick on you is because you're so, well, easy. Did you get that name from the school locker room?

January 30, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"Either the God who Is IS Sovereign or the State is or the individual."

America was founded on the premise that the individual is sovereign. I'll stick with that.

You Christian Reconstructionists are as evil and dictatorial as the Muslim fanatics.

If surrounded by Muslim Fanatics on one side and Christian Reconstructionists on the other, I'd shoot in all directions.

January 30, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

NFJ...

To get at the truth of something you have to start from ground zero. You have to discard every preconceived notion, every stereotype, everything you've been taught before, and look at whatever it is you're wanting to get to the core of and start with a clean slate. If you want to determine whether Christianity and your Bible are valid or not, you have to be willing to go back before your Bible and before your religion and look objectively at their origins. The problem with you Christians is that you are afraid to do that. You claim, over and over and over again, that God is who he is because the Bible says so. Your Bible says that God is a male (heavenly father) and is absolute and perfect and so that is what you believe... end of discussion. The Bible says there is a heaven and a hell and if you believe in God's son, you go to heaven, and if you don't, you go to hell...end of discussion. You are afraid to even doubt your Bible because to do so admits a lack of faith.

But if you go back far enough to see the true origins of your Bible it is clear as day that it was written by fallible, politically motivated, power-hungry men. They were not divinely inspired by God but propelled by their own self-serving interests to make God a domineering, patriarchal entity (our heavenly father as opposed to our heavenly mother) who demanded blind obedience and submission. In other words, the very God you worship is one who was created for the express purpose of keeping women subservient to men and keeping men and women both subservient to the state, which was in many ways still subservient to the church.

There is a lot of well researched literature on the origins of the Bible and the mythical origins of Christ and if only you would read some of it with eyes wide open it would become clear to you that those "truths" in your Bible are utter nonsense. Certainly, it's not all nonsense - there are some real truths contained within. But if you want maxims and morals to live by it could easily be condensed to just a few pages. In fact, the only real moral we need to live by is embodied in the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And BTW....the Golden Rule or any of the other preachings on compassion and brotherly love did not originate with your mythical Jesus. Every utterance that supposedly ever flowed from Christ's lips had been written of and spoken before, in Taoism and the various pagan religions that preceded Christianity. That's just one of the things that you would learn if you cared/dared to open your mind a little bit and let the light of truth shine in.

January 30, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.
caddy said...

Fair enough Darwin: It's the default setting of all unbelievers--that of autonomy.

The majority of the framers were believers in a Sovereign God, but for sure they also understood that freedom to choose could not be coerced. I get that they got that. The God of the Bible either chooses us or leaves us to ourselves.

You state the Christian idea ( or Christian Reconstruction ) is evil, but answer me something: Based on What Standard ?

Is it written down in a book that I should know it, or should I assume your DNA is somehow the Archetype DNA.

On the Day of Judgement, people will be held accountable to God for what they did not know and for what they did know but disobeyed. Romans 1 does assume something similar to what you stated: namely that all men know the truth and know they can't escape it. They know there is a God above. Common grace is given to all men in that they can look at creation and "know" things don't generally create themselves. The simple fact of Scripture posits simply that Special Grace is needed ( "The Gift of Faith" ) in order for men to believe.

God holds how men accountable. They either suppress the truth or deny it outright.

The radical fall of man into sin and guilt supplies us with the only valid basis to understand the origin and existence of ugliness, evil, pain, suffering, chaos, war, sorrow, and death. What is now is not what originally was.

For sure: God will make all things new again, but even the unbeliever knows when he sits alone with his thoughts how sad and disappointing this world is. He knows he will die, like all men, that he will experience pain and the difficulties of life, and as he ages, he will even understand...more and more..just how much he does not control, how helpless he is. I submit to you: When and if that times comes: It's a Great Mercy of God to know it.

January 30, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
caddy said...

I'll ask Clay again. What are Arabs and Christians and all men supposed to be "progressing to" ? Simple question.

January 30, 2013 at 3 p.m.
jesse said...

Caddy?

Progressing to?

Yuo think humans are progressing? We are doing the same thing we been doing for 10,000 years. we just got better stuff to do it with now and the TRIBES are bigger now than when we were doin it w/stone axes!! We ain't "supposed "to be doin anything,we just ARE and we will be till we ain't !

January 30, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Caddy, why should I believe what your god says until you can prove that your god exists?

The Bible is full of contradictions, murder, rape, genocide, slavery, all caused by a paranoid deity. All caused by a creator who tortures his creations and calls that love. What kind of a warped creator calls that love?

Why would anyone worship and praise such a despicable god? Jehovah's actions are petty, jealous, reprehensible, by my standards. Jehovah is not a good, kind, loving 'father' figure, he's an imaginary god who takes credit for actions above a thousand Hitlers and Ted Bundys.

Nothing lovable about that, unless your concept of love is pain, torture, and death to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

If you must have a god, come up with something better than Jehovah.

January 30, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
caddy said...

Answer me this: Why would Scripture record ALL the "Stuff" that happens, can happen to the sons of men, Darwin ? The fact that it records realism, reality, all the brutalities of Sin is a Stark reason to trust it, not distrust it. After all: Do you believe all the Crap and niceties of a Joel Osteen type preacher ? Murder, Rape, Slavery happen. They are not going away. They happen for a very clear reason: We are all sinners.

Jesus said, even if a man could keep the commandments in reality, he's guilty of breaking them in his heart. After all: What man hasn't murdered someone in his own heart ?

You want realism, truth, honesty, read Scripture. It does not sugar coat.

Again: the fact that evil exist and that you recognize it suggests a standard does it not ? How do you KNOW that murder and rape and slavery are wrong ? If we are Children of darwin, we are simply atoms and matter acting against other atoms and forms of matter.

Somehow you understand and KNOW that truth exist and that the "ideal" that was LOST in the fall is a Standard. Tell me how that is, Darwin ?

January 30, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
alprova said...

Easy...it is not ignorant to have religious faith. Nurseforjustice has never in the history of this forum, rammed his beliefs down the throats of others.

He has always been respectful towards others who choose to discount the existence of God. I'm not an overly religious man, and while I cannot prove conclusively the existence of God, I think I can offer some evidence to consider.

Over the years, I have traveled to or through all of the lower 48 states. When I see a sunrise while sitting at an edge of the Grand Canyon, I do believe that there is a God who created this earth.

More recently, I was given a very good reason to believe that there is a God.

On January 19th, my niece and her husband were killed in a horrible car crash in Dade County. It made the news.

In the back seat of their Dodge Charger was their 3 year old daughter. The front end of that car wound up mere inches from that baby's face. She survived with a bump on her head, a horrible case of whiplash, and a few cuts from flying glass.

The rescuers had to cut that child out of the car. For a lack of a better way to describe it, she was located in the only area in the passenger compartment of that car, with only inches to spare, that was not totally destroyed.

I have an appreciation for all things scientific, but science does not explain everything.

As we are discussing this issue, there are people, from the manufacturer to the Federal Gov't, who are tearing that car into little pieces, analyzing everything possible to explain what happened, because drugs and alcohol, falling asleep at the wheel, the use of her cell phone, etc. have all been eliminated as causes or contributing factors.

For sure, it may all be a matter of chance, but after seeing that car up close and personal, no one is going to convince me otherwise that God's hand protected that child from harm and he created a protective bubble around her little body.

January 30, 2013 at 3:37 p.m.
Walden said...

Nice post at 3:37, Alprova. Praying for your family's healing in this time of loss.

January 30, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Ditto what Walden said, Alprova. Sorry you and your family have to endure that tragedy.

January 30, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oh, dear, Alprova. I am so sorry to hear about your niece and her husband.

January 30, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"Scripture" created by man proves nothing. Anyone who's studied the man-made creation of the Bible knows that. Your circular logic goes nowhere.

Alprova, I'm sorry for your loss. However, that does not prove that there's a god, a Jehovah, a Jesus, or a Pink Unicorn that rules the universe.

I would ask why didn't Jehovah save the mother and father?

Strange things occur daily throughout the world but that does not mean there's a supernatural deity behind it.

Again, my condolences.

January 30, 2013 at 5:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

alprova,

"it is not ignorant to have religious faith."

If I have made you feel that is my belief then I have done a poor job communicating. I do not think it is ignorant to have religious faith. I simply find that having religious faith can blind people to certain facts, science, and other things that don't square with their religion and that, in my opinion, is the most egregious ignorance imaginable.

I share the sentiment of others here about your loss. So tragic a loss often creates a wound that will never heal and I truly empathize with your loss. However, coming from someone that has interacted with you here and read your kind, intelligent and witty words, I'm sure you enriched your niece and her husbands' life while they were alive and I have no doubt that you will be a great source of knowledge, wisdom, and love to their child now and in the future.

Again, I send you my thoughts and deepest hopes that the passing of time can heal the pain of this tragedy at least a bit. You have my utmost respect and the knowledge you have imparted here over this past year is truly invaluable to a young person like myself. From one TFP poster to another, I send my condolences to you and your family.

January 30, 2013 at 5:23 p.m.
Rebus said...

Easy is a liar and a fraud. It's patently clear what you think of religion and its followers. You, pal, are disgusting.

January 30, 2013 at 5:50 p.m.
Maximus said...

Easy 123.....Old Hickory challenges you to a dual. How big of a boy are you? I'd put my money on Jackson. History tells us he was a pretty good shot and did not tolerate fools like you. Gosh, if only duals were still legal and the stylish way to solve problems. Oh for simpler times when everything was not about gay rights. As for Egypt....don't mess with the Jews they left that ghetto a long long time ago.

January 30, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.
jesse said...

Maximus ,duals are still legal BUT you might get in trouble over a duel!(M.B.A. my arz!)

January 30, 2013 at 6:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis,

I am not a liar or a fraud and you could never prove otherwise. My feelings toward religion are very clear. I have never stated that having religious faith is ignorant. However, I have stated many times that the delusion religious faith puts people under can be the cause of a lot of ignorance. Many people that believe in a god still accept science and other things of that sort. You, geezer, are a moron. Would you like to try again, King of Frauds and Liars?

January 30, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Maximusty,

"Old Hickory challenges you to a dual."

Considering he's been dead for over 100 years, I seriously doubt that.

"How big of a boy are you?"

A lot bigger than Andrew Jackson.

"I'd put my money on Jackson."

You just lost that bet.

"History tells us he was a pretty good shot and did not tolerate fools like you."

History also tells us he's dead.

Your ignorance and idiocy is palpable.

January 30, 2013 at 7:08 p.m.
librul said...

The mental contortions necessary to allow religionists to justify abandonment of their intellectual honesty and retreat into the delusional world of myth and superstition where they can make the kind of baseless proclamations seen above in this thread are truly amazing. They quote Bronze Age scripture originally written largely for purposes of tribal control and massaged and re-interpreted over the centuries to later be used to support the aspirations and depredations of the Holy Roman Empire and monarchs across Europe who ruled by fear and the sword.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

January 30, 2013 at 7:14 p.m.
alprova said...

Rebus wrote: "Easy is a liar and a fraud. It's patently clear what you think of religion and its followers. You, pal, are disgusting."

Sir, with a modicum of respect that I am humbly offering, you come in here day after day to antagonize Easy and everyone else you have philosophical differences with, and I find that kind of behavior disgusting.

Now I'm sure that you feel that I am totally overlooking his taunts to you, but from where I sit, you fire first each and every time.

Please....for the love of God...why not try contributing something meaningful to a conversation, because you are a bit old to sit there behind a computer screen playing a forum troll day in and day out.

January 30, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.
dude_abides said...

alprova, that must be devastating. So sorry.

January 30, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.
dude_abides said...

jesse, you have added 'fual' to Maximus' fire!

January 30, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.
Rebus said...

ALPO: You see what you want to see. Easy is the king of name calling and insults. Hell, he's even gone after my 93 year old mother. Any tirades I launch at him are well warranted. His puke inducing post to you was obsequious to the point of revulsion. You, Mr. Prova, should have been insulted. Not only is he a liar, he's also a hypocrite.

January 30, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.
alprova said...

Thank you to those who have offered their condolences to me and my family. I was reluctant to post yet another personal tragedy, because there are a couple of people who just love to turn personal revelations into fodder for insult attempts.

That's their problem...not mine.

We had a few tough days last week, as I was very close to my niece and her husband. This one hurt to the bone, not just for myself, but more for the child that they loved more than life itself.

Their deaths have brought me to another crossroads in life. I'm more determined than ever to concentrate on what is important in life, as none of us is guaranteed to be here tomorrow.

Regardless of what one thinks about religion, we can all try to treat one another with respect, decency, and love. There will always be differences of opinion. There will always be degrees of hate or discontent that reside in the hearts of everyone. But that does not mean that one has to spend their lives in an online forum each and every day of the freaking week dispensing hate and discontent.

Hug your family each and every day. Make a friend. This latest tragedy resulted in my rediscovering Facebook. The day before yesterday, I made contact with a childhood friend who was my one true and best friend who lives in Tuscon, Arizona.

Folks, we're only on this earth for a limited time.

Make the best of it...every single day.

January 30, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
Easy123 said...

LMFAO! I'm truly the bane of your existence, Jack_Rebus_Dennis!

January 30, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
alprova said...

daytonsdarwin wrote: "Alprova, I'm sorry for your loss. However, that does not prove that there's a god, a Jehovah, a Jesus, or a Pink Unicorn that rules the universe."

I am in full agreement that what I related proves nothing. But I have arrived at the conclusion, logically or otherwise, that all exists and that happens, is not by chance.

I do believe in God. I have to. Why? Because to think that we as humans are born, we live for an average of 70 years, form bonds of love and like with other humans and then we die, and that's all there is to it, just doesn't make sense to me.

I make no bones that I have never considered the Bible, or any holy book for that matter, the word of any superior being, but that does not mean that there is nothing relevant that can be obtained and used to guide us as humans, written in such works.

There have been many times over the years that I have had reason to believe that there is a God and that he did create this beautiful planet and all of us.

"I would ask why didn't Jehovah save the mother and father?"

Trust me, I have asked that question many times over the past 12 days. As much as I love life, I would have eagerly traded my life for theirs. They were both in the prime of their lives. My niece had just been awarded her license to be a full-fledged Pharmacist.

Her husband had finally settled into a good job as well. He made some serious coin too.

The truth is that I cannot answer that question. I don't know why they were taken. It was their time. Of course it doesn't make any sense. Life itself is a mystery. Why are we all here at all?

"Strange things occur daily throughout the world but that does not mean there's a supernatural deity behind it."

I know where you are coming from. I've been there many times myself. But each and every event in my life, good and negative, has emboldened me to become a stronger person.

I have to believe in God. I have to believe that he has a plan for each and every one of us. Events that happen in each of our lives quite often changes the course of other lives.

My Great-niece will probably wind up growing up in Mississippi, rather than here. Perhaps she was destined to become a drug addict and the deaths of her parents changed that course of her life.

I don't know. No one knows. But I have to believe that there was a very good reason why they were taken. For me to believe otherwise, makes me want to curl up in a ball and to give up.

Make no mistake my friend. I respect your position completely. I've been there.

"Again, my condolences."

Thanks.

January 30, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.
alprova said...

Easy wrote: "If I have made you feel that is my belief then I have done a poor job communicating. I do not think it is ignorant to have religious faith. I simply find that having religious faith can blind people to certain facts, science, and other things that don't square with their religion and that, in my opinion, is the most egregious ignorance imaginable."

Nurseforjustice is one who has never attacked others in here. He's opinionated like everyone else, but he has always been respectful towards others.

I just feel you were a little too harsh with the man...that's all.

"I share the sentiment of others here about your loss. So tragic a loss often creates a wound that will never heal and I truly empathize with your loss. However, coming from someone that has interacted with you here and read your kind, intelligent and witty words, I'm sure you enriched your niece and her husbands' life while they were alive and I have no doubt that you will be a great source of knowledge, wisdom, and love to their child now and in the future."

I'm sure gonna try...

"Again, I send you my thoughts and deepest hopes that the passing of time can heal the pain of this tragedy at least a bit. You have my utmost respect and the knowledge you have imparted here over this past year is truly invaluable to a young person like myself. From one TFP poster to another, I send my condolences to you and your family."

Thank you very much.

January 30, 2013 at 8:38 p.m.
alprova said...

Rebus wrote: "ALPO: You see what you want to see. Easy is the king of name calling and insults. Hell, he's even gone after my 93 year old mother. Any tirades I launch at him are well warranted. His puke inducing post to you was obsequious to the point of revulsion. You, Mr. Prova, should have been insulted. Not only is he a liar, he's also a hypocrite."

Okay...fine. Whatever.

How about you being the adult then, if that is your position?

Your usual demeanor is to post with derogatory commentary directed at posters, rather than to contribute to the discussion. I'm sure that I am not the only person to see this.

You leave him alone, and I'll bet he will leave you alone.

January 30, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Someone is really working overtime in messing with the website tonight.

January 30, 2013 at 8:59 p.m.
Rebus said...

Not really, Easy. You're just a punk-ass kid.

January 30, 2013 at 9:13 p.m.
Maximus said...

Easy, you would have lasted about a month during General and President Andrew Jackson's time. The indians would have scalped you and boiled your flesh before you could say 1,2,3. I have heard the liberal babel about one of our greatest Presidents, Andrew Jackson before. Boring........ You have to measure Jackson's success in the context of the times and no I do not feel bad about the Indians or slavery in the antebellum south. The British as well as the Yankees (Union Army) killed and tortured some of my relatives and with the exception of some union loving, baby killing Yankees, I get along just fine with both. As for the Brits I never cared for the gay boy Beatles, but Led Zep rules! President Andrew Jackson is ALWAYS rated very high by most presidential experts and historians. Easy, U R just another low IQ Obama lover.

January 30, 2013 at 9:34 p.m.
raygunz said...

alprova said...(to jack-rebus)"How about you being the adult then, if that is your position?

Your usual demeanor is to post with derogatory commentary directed at posters, rather than to contribute to the discussion. I'm sure that I am not the only person to see this."

jack-Rebus' very next post," Rebus said...

Not really, Easy. You're just a punk-ass kid."

forget it al.a troll is a troll,is a troll!

January 30, 2013 at 9:48 p.m.
raygunz said...

and max,,is that you who says"The earth doesn't revolve around me;it revolves around the sun,which shines out of my ass?

January 30, 2013 at 9:52 p.m.
raygunz said...

jon,would you,could you, please identify,specify some of those " non-Regime information outlets"?

January 30, 2013 at 10:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Clearly, Maximus is not a history buff. For if he were, he might not be so inclined to worship at the feet of Andrew Jackson. He has been cited many times as a father to the modern day, Democrat Party.

Don't get me wrong. Andrew Jackson was a great President. In fact, outside of being an avid slave owner and his treatment toward Native Americans, he had a great deal in common with our current President.

You see, he worked as President to revoke the charter of the 2nd National Bank. Why?

Because it concentrated the nation's financial wealth in a single institution, it exposed the government to control by foreign interests, it served mainly to make the rich richer, it exercised too much control over members of Congress, it favored northeastern states over southern and western states, and because the bank was controlled by a few select families.

Andrew Jackson was also very much a union man, as in the Union established as the United States. He was not very fond of States that threatened succession or any resistance to abiding by Federal laws.

He dumped his own Vice-President for his second term over such a threat and sent in troops when South Carolina threatened to nullify Federal agreements and to succeed from the union over the issue of European tariffs.

"Our Federal Union: It must be preserved!" -- President Andrew Jackson, April 30, 1830

January 30, 2013 at 11:42 p.m.
Maximus said...

Whatever alprova. Obama would not have been "house staff" at the Hermitage. Both Barry and Michelle would have been choppin cotton for Old Hickory and his lovely wife Rachell.

January 31, 2013 at 12:07 a.m.
alprova said...

Just remember something Maximus, while you are sitting there with that sumg grin on your face, pining for the days gone by...

Barack Obama is a hundred times the man that you are. Out of several billion people who have inhabited this planet over the span of who knows how many eons, he is currently only the 44th person to have attained the status as President of these formerly United States of America.

Despite anything and everything that people like yourself do and say, he has his place already reserved in the history books.

Future generations, including your own offspring, if you have any, will admire the man just as you do Andrew Jackson.

And what will YOU be be remembered for, for about ten seconds?

You Sir, are a hopeless, pathetic, pathological liar.

You're one of several million other people roaming the web, who live in a world of fantasy, unable to grasp a sliver of reality for one gleaming second.

When you die, history will not even know your name. People will tromp on top of wherever your carcass is buried.

Chew on that twerp.

January 31, 2013 at 2:06 a.m.
caddy said...

He ( Obama ) has his place alright. In fact, all the Obama lovers proved he really did not have to do anything to win his Nobel prize, he didn't have to "affect" the economy in any positive way, he did have to do anything. All he had to be was Black, liberal, and a cultural marxist. Yep.

From Obama Inauguration Speech

"Progress does not compel us to settle centuries-long debates about the role of government for all time – but it does require us to act in our time. "

How different is that from Karl Marx writing,

"The point is not to understand the world, but to transform it."

The above Marx quote is from Karl Marx's 11th Thesis on Feuerbach.

After all cultural marxist vote for cultural marxist: It's not in the content of his polices but the color of his skin as to why liberals voted for him in large numbers. They do not really mind the crushing debt--until it hits them personally; and it will. They don't mind homosexual union because they don't perceive that particular sin to harm them IF they are not homosexuals themselves. The homosexual argument is very simply summed up with: I was borned that way. So: What about those who are born whose one predilection is children ? Reason the logical fallacy there, but I'm sure the true liberal won't. Why? He can't. He can't see his own hypocrisy. They do not mind the 10 % U.E numbers until their jobs are affected because liberal progressive mumbo jumbo proves that it doesn't work and their are Riffed and downsized. Someone is not poor because someone else is rich. The biggest problem with liberals is their mindless discontent. They seem to despise when one of their fellow american's is "succeeding". They only thing good that can come from a successful business man is for more of his net worth to be confiscated and redistributed. It's better to be equal in slavery after all that unequal in Freedom. Give me someone else's portion or: give me death is the liberal mantra.

After all: Men who fear the power of the state should remember that the more the state succeeds, the closer it comes to destroying itself.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/the_new_normal_turning_back_cultural_marxism.html

January 31, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Alprova, I too am very sorry for your loss. Please don't hesitate in the future to share these things with us. Just don't pay attention to the idiots that would poke fun or say hurtful things. I know I don't. I personally like the personal stories. It kind of makes us more real since we really don't know each other on here.

I remember when this story was on the news. I immediately prayed for that baby and his family. I will continue to do so especially now that I can place him with your family.

And thanks for the kind words above. I do not try to force my beliefs on others but certainly don't mind putting in my 2 cents when appropriate. And Darwin and Easy always seem to bring God up, (or should I say put Him down) so it makes me want to comment to defend the God I love. Not that He needs defending but that is what I do.

January 31, 2013 at 12:27 p.m.
caddy said...
 Muslims are not happy:

 They're not happy in Gaza 
 They're not happy in Egypt 
 They're not happy in Libya 
 They're not happy in Morocco 
 They're not happy in Iran 
 They're not happy in Iraq 
 They're not happy in Yemen 
 They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
 They're not happy in Pakistan 
 They're not happy in Syria 
 They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

 They're happy in Australia 
 They're happy in Canada 
 They're happy in England 
 They're happy in France 
 They're happy in Italy  
They're happy in Germany  
They're happy in Sweden  
They're happy in the USA  
They're happy in Norway 
They're happy in Holland  
They're happy in Denmark

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!

AND THEN, they want to change those countries to be like....

 THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM............. WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!

Go figure.

February 4, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
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