published Tuesday, July 2nd, 2013

Immigration Reform

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Illegal aliens deserve nothing. There is no immigration problem if someone comes in the right way. The laws are fine as they are, just enforce them. All of this is just pandering for votes. Whether it's Marco Rubio or Chuck Schummer, all they want are votes.

July 2, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.

I'm so sick and tired of all the kissing up to illegal aliens, "gays", and Muslims. I wonder how much time, energy and resources are wasted dealing with, and discussing these groups?

July 2, 2013 at 12:12 a.m.
alprova said...

Illegal aliens do not come here for no reason. They come here out of pure and unadulterated desperation. They are HUMANS, first and foremost, simply looking for some stability for themselves and their families, something that many of them have never experienced in their lives.

Some Americans look at them with no more care in their heart than they can muster for a stray cat or a dog that wanders on the side of a road. What the hell is wrong with such people?

I'm a big proponent in the belief in Karma and I am intrigued with the possibility that we all live many lives on Earth. After all, how can anyone learn about life after living only one time on Earth? It makes complete sense to me that it is quite possible that we live many times on Earth, in many different circumstances, as we make our way to one day, come to an understanding of what life is all about.

I also firmly believe we reap what we sow. Could it be that people in this current life are dealt a whole new set of cards in their next life based on how the lived the previous one?

If reincarnation is indeed a reality, what if God decides that your next life will be a total struggle to survive like those you have little regard for currently?

Many of those stray human beings who try to make their way here had no idea what was in store for them. Many have lost their lives trying to get here.

Have many Americans become so selfish and protective of their way of life, that they cannot share a good thing with people who have nothing, come here with nothing, who are so desperate that they would risk their lives to be able to taste the crumbs from the pie that we serve ourselves each and every day?

May God protect the desperate and despondent, and mete out the proper punishment to those with hearts that are pumping ice water.

Some of you have not the first clue what is in the minds of those who cross our borders. If we allowed another 50 million to come here, your lives would not change a bit. You would lose nothing.

Read the link. Then think how you would feel to walk one mile in their shoes;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/01/fort-hancock-texas-where-fence-and-hope-for-illegals-ends/

July 2, 2013 at 1:05 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

It is appointed unto alprova once to die, and after this the Judgment. Jesus is alive; Gandhi is dead.

Why do they come here? Because the USA is a less bad country. Why so? Evangelical cultural influence. More freedom, more productivity, less subsidy for aristocrats. Far from perfect--Jesus is libertarian; the Pharisees who trumpet how generous they are with other people's money are blind guides leading the blind in the direction of Hell--but a bit less bad than most places, and on a larger scale. This can be done elsewhere: the Victorian enclave of Hong Kong conquered Red China, the Victorian dictator Douglas MacArthur and the Victorian imitator Meiji modernized Japan. That's semi-Christian cultural influence; it won't take people to Heaven, but it does Heaven's will on earth in certain ways that improve earth. Is anyone moving to North Korea to enjoy the wonders of atheistic culture? Hell no. To Saudi Arabia to enjoy the wonders of Islamic culture? Hell no--only to pump oil. Are they coming here to enjoy crumbs from the table of Jesus? Heaven yes. We should eat more ourselves--there's plenty to go around and around.

July 2, 2013 at 4:54 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

Be my quest. Be my guest.

YOU are the one who who initiates the attacks.

YOU are the one who is often vulgar.

YOU are the one who uses profanity.

YOU are the one who stays up all hours of the night insulting and running down others.

YOU are the one who constantly blasphemes God.

YOU are the one is insufferably arrogant and haughty.

Be my guest. Be my quest.

July 2, 2013 at 6:48 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova you seem to ignore the diversity of intent of those coming here illegally. Illegal immigration is not limited to Hispanics from the south of the U.S. Those here for a long time that have demonstrated they are responsible law abiding and hard working are numerous and should be treated accordingly. However, there needs to be some control of recent and future immigrants for a lot of very good reasons. I doubt pending legislation will change anything. How can there be any order in the immigration process when authorities can't even identify and address those overstaying their VISA? The border agent increase is ridiculous when there are only 5,000 under funded ICE agents (less than most cities of any size) across all of the U.S. to contend with differentiating between those here with less than honorable intentions and those that would be good citizens.

I personally have a hard time giving a rip if they come in illegally if they are not here for the wrong reasons which some are. I admit I am not really concerned about whatever their plight is from whence they come. Your pious attitude is probably influenced by those you know personally. It may change if a family member were molested or killed by a criminal immigrant or if you observed the illegal drug sales that is not uncommon in north GA.

Different than you I can watch any idiot that has not utilized the opportunity to improve their personal plight go hungry or whatever difficulty they bring upon their self. We seek every excuse for the failures among us and blame everything and everyone except the person not accepting their personal responsibility. I don't hesitate to give and I do give generously to those that can't help themselves, especially children. Our country is in the give a man a fish mode rather than teaching him to fish.

July 2, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
conservative said...

Here, mention this in your CALL -

alprova said...

conservative wrote: "alprova, Thank you for coming out of the heathen closet."

I have done no such thing. Since you brought up closets, am I to expect that you will be emerging from the gay closet soon?

"Why did you lie about being a Christian for so long?"

Look you moron, I don't lie. I also don't feel the need to proclaim my Christianity. I live it. You claim to.

"Did you really believe that you were fooling anyone?"

What you think is of no consequence to my life or anyone else's.

"It is obvious that you are not just ignorant of the things of God and Christianity but that you are openly hostile to God and Christianity."

Your brand of Christianity? You bet you ass.

"I was right all along."

Only in your convoluted mind.

"In the future I will often paste your 7:01 comment as evidence of your false claim of being a Christian."

Stalk much, you piece of crap? Yes you do.

"However, that does not mean that I will not paste some of your more egregious blasphemies so that there will be no doubt in the mind of anyone that you might try to deceive."

You don't pay attention to the comments of others, do you? You Sir, are the deceiver who believes the Bible to be the word of God. The history of the Bible is out there for anyone who wants to discover it.

Read this until it sinks in: I don't give a &(#$^% what you believe. You tend to your own soul and I'll tend to mine. July 1, 2013 at 8:19 p.m.

July 2, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
conservative said...

Alprova,

When you make your CALL ask the person on the phone why you were permitted to write this:

"BTW, your repeated use of the phrase "open wide" has a connotation of homosexuality that simply cannot be denied any longer. While I'm honored by your interest, I must decline your desire to fill my mouth with your love muscle"

July 2, 2013 at 7:13 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

If all you port-siders were so big on immigration reform, why do you block every attempt at securing borders first before legalization? Hmmmm?

July 2, 2013 at 7:20 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

*Where have all the posters gone? Long time passing.🎶

July 2, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.
conservative said...

Hope it wasn't to graveyards everyone unless they have repented and received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

July 2, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "It is appointed unto alprova once to die, and after this the Judgment. Jesus is alive; Gandhi is dead."

What if the Bible you read has it totally wrong? Have you ever, for a split second, taken the time to attempt to understand the history of the Bible, who had the power to change it, and their reasons for doing so?

Outside of the Bible, there is a whole world of information out there about the history of religion. There are many churches out there that one can attend. Each and every one of them offers bits and pieces of the truth.

"Why do they come here? Because the USA is a less bad country."

A less bad country?

"Why so? Evangelical cultural influence."

I've never met an illegal who came here because of our freedom to become and Evangelical, but please...go on...

"Far from perfect--Jesus is libertarian; the Pharisees who trumpet how generous they are with other people's money are blind guides leading the blind in the direction of Hell--but a bit less bad than most places, and on a larger scale. This can be done elsewhere: the Victorian enclave of Hong Kong conquered Red China, the Victorian dictator Douglas MacArthur and the Victorian imitator Meiji modernized Japan. That's semi-Christian cultural influence; it won't take people to Heaven, but it does Heaven's will on earth in certain ways that improve earth. Is anyone moving to North Korea to enjoy the wonders of atheistic culture? Hell no. To Saudi Arabia to enjoy the wonders of Islamic culture? Hell no--only to pump oil. Are they coming here to enjoy crumbs from the table of Jesus? Heaven yes. We should eat more ourselves--there's plenty to go around and around."

You've left me utterly speechless...

I'm just going to leave all that alone to wither on the vine.

July 2, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: You have never been utterly speechless.

July 2, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative, you've convinced me NOT to pick up that phone. With the exception of a couple of like-minded individuals, no one takes what you write seriously anyway, so get it all out of your system.

You're a very mentally disturbed individual, wrapped up in a cocoon of religiousness unrivaled by anyone I have had the displeasure to come across.

This is my last post that will ever be addressed to you from myself, because it is a complete waste of my time to even believe that you are capable of interacting on any meaningful level.

In time, you'll tire of cyber-stalking me.

Seek some help buddy.

July 2, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
conservative said...

WWWTW,

One could spend countless hours arguing with a fool.

Satan was the first to attack the word of God and his disciples have never stopped since.

The heathen constantly attack the deity and sinlessness of Jesus Christ, the word of God, the authorship of the Pentateuch etc.

There are false scholars who are paid to come up with endless "proofs" of the aforementioned.

Of course their lies have all been refuted and a quick search will lead anyone to the refutations by legitimate Bible scholars.

What I have found to be very effective is to just use the Liberals own words against them. There is limited space here to make your point. If you can get a Liberal to talk he will indict/convict himself:

Jesus said:

But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”

I just use their own words against them. One in particular has uttered such blasphemies as "Jesus cannot be God," and Jesus sinned" and that is only a small sample.

If you can get a Liberal to talk, he will hang himself.

July 2, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Hey Clay,

How about exercising the gray matter instead of the oh so typical Blame It On Bush, Blame It On Cheney, Blame It On The G,G,GOP,,,,

Now how many of these illegal squatters do you think are going to pay a fine, pay back taxes and then get in line behind every legal green card applicant in the system to start their path to becoming a citizen? And then your brilliant fellow Democrats wish to build a fence with security measures that we cannot afford. How about we use E Verify and make this very simple. If you are a legal resident you are allowed to work in our great nation and if you are not please go home where you belong. If someone wishes to work here, apply for a green card or become a guest worker. See how simple?

And please stop all the bleeding heart nonsense. Mexico is a beautiful country. The border towns are not. If we as Americans are so concerned about the life in these towns and ours on the border we have 2 choices to stop the poverty and murder. {1}Every American stops smoking weed and using cocaine. {2}If we fail to do this the only other option is to legalize drugs. Unfortunately there is a third option. We could always just keep everything the way it is now and somehow I get this sick feeling that our politicians want this more than anything. Yes Clay even the great Democrats you follow so blindly,,,,, Perhaps a bottle of O2 might help? You know, a big one. Breathe man, breathe

July 2, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

alkarma, now we're getting somewhere. I can easily see you in a previous life pulling a plow. After all, we've had Francis the Talking Mule and Mr. Ed. And further back on the calendar, according to your Bible, I can see you in the origin of the species: In the beginning the Supreme Architect of the Universe created Cheetah and then along came al, tall thin al, slow walkin' al, slow talkin' al, along came long, lean, lanky al.

July 2, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "alprova you seem to ignore the diversity of intent of those coming here illegally. Illegal immigration is not limited to Hispanics from the south of the U.S."

Let's not try to muddy the waters. There is little to no evidence evidence that those coming across our borders from the South are anything other than the desperate souls of Hispanic origin.

"Those here for a long time that have demonstrated they are responsible law abiding and hard working are numerous and should be treated accordingly."

I'm pleased to read your agreement with that.

"However, there needs to be some control of recent and future immigrants for a lot of very good reasons. I doubt pending legislation will change anything."

But of course you are correct.

"How can there be any order in the immigration process when authorities can't even identify and address those overstaying their VISA?"

I'm quite sure that identifying those who overstay are not the problem. Running them down once they have disappeared is the problem, until they are encountered by local law enforcement.

"The border agent increase is ridiculous when there are only 5,000 under funded ICE agents (less than most cities of any size) across all of the U.S. to contend with differentiating between those here with less than honorable intentions and those that would be good citizens."

Without question, once they have crossed over, it's a very large country in which they can and have anonymous access to.

"I personally have a hard time giving a rip if they come in illegally if they are not here for the wrong reasons which some are."

Some are guilty of committing crimes, but I doubt that they come here for that purpose.

"I admit I am not really concerned about whatever their plight is from whence they come. Your pious attitude is probably influenced by those you know personally."

To some degree, yes. But I look at the larger picture as well.

"It may change if a family member were molested or killed by a criminal immigrant or if you observed the illegal drug sales that is not uncommon in north GA."

Fairmon, I feel it very wrong to hold an entire group of people responsible or to blame for the actions of one individual. Don't we have enough boxes to put people in as it is?

"Our country is in the give a man a fish mode rather than teaching him to fish."

These people come here knowing how to fish. All they are seeking is the fish filled pond where they can drop in their line.

July 2, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo: You have never been utterly speechless."

I'm speechless quite often...

But I can write up a storm!!

July 2, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Closer and closer you creep toward the edge, Alpo.

July 2, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

conservative, you should be so lucky. Eventually alkarma will come back as Nancy Pelosi and ....

July 2, 2013 at 10:01 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

6) Only in America ... would they make people who want to legally become American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege, while they discuss letting anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just 'magically' become American citizens.

July 2, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

You will not keep your word.

This must be about the 7th or 8th time you have said that you will not address me only to address me first when you disagree with one of my comments. I believe you lasted less than a couple of hours the last time that you reneged.

You are obsessed with defending homosexuality and you will not be able to resist defending it.

You are under conviction by God over the matter of homosexuality as well as your unbelief and it shows.

If you hear HIS voice, harden not your heart.

I take no pleasure in exposing you. Keep your word to me and we will have no problem.

July 2, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.
jesse said...

I have figured out what religion Alprova is!!!

He IS a Taoist,Buddhist unitarian!!

Thats enough to drive Con man plumb around the bend,IF he wasn't so far around the bend already !

CON MAN , the only one you are exposing w/your insanity is your own self!!

July 2, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Looks like we're headed to another Alprova fillibuster

July 2, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.

It doesn't matter what the reasons for illegally entering the country. They're not different than someone who breaks into your house. A crime is a crime. Many crimes have been committed out of desperation. They're not supposed to be here, period. A country that doesn't protect its borders and it's citizens is self destructive. History and logic make that clear. It's politicians, and the left that muddy the issue and nuance it to death, just like they do to most things.

July 2, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Is Conservative real or a figment of his own imagination? I do know that Conservative drives people into the ranks of non-bible literalists, agnostics, and atheists everyday.

Conservative remains the best recruiting tool out there for freethinking individuals; Lohr runs a distant second.

Keep up the good work and thanks for the laughs.

But one question. How often do you clean your keyboard and monitor from the spittle and foam from your spewing lips?

"God hates a filthy keyboard." 2nd Fallopians, Chapter 2, verse 5

"God so loved the world He gave us Dust-off and Windex." St. PeterPaulAlmondJoy 3:16

July 2, 2013 at 12:25 p.m.
jesse said...

Alprova is the epitome "what ever i say it is what it is!periot!"

He actualy is kinda funny IF you pay real close attn. to how LOCKED IN he is!

July 2, 2013 at 12:37 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Alprova is the epitome "what ever i say it is what it is!periot!"..."

Look at what other people post, including yourself. Everyone believes their opinions are superior to all others.

"He actualy is kinda funny IF you pay real close attn. to how LOCKED IN he is!"

What does that mean...locked in?

July 2, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.
jesse said...

If GOD hates a slobbery key board then Con man is on the road to hell!!

Al, you are locked in,you NEVER deviate once you declare an opinion!Maybe "closed minded " would be more apt!

July 2, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Many routes to perdition. A slobbery keyboard ain't a fun one.

July 2, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.
Maximus said...

Getting very stupid with all the social issues. Really when it comes down to it the federal government should be about maintaining a strong national defense and the economy. The immigration bill should pass because:

  1. We kill 1.6 million potential workers each year in the U.S. via abortion.
  2. Our social safety net that the libs love is so cushy many choose to sleep in the welfare hammock rather than doing some "soul crushing" manual labor job.
  3. Otherwise healthy Americans will not clean rooms and change hotel beds because they are waiting for a management position. Think Alprova.
  4. Unions, what's left of them, about 7% of the private sector, have driven employers to illegals when it comes to manual labor. Congress should go ahead and pass the immigration bill. We need the workers! Make them pay taxes though!
July 2, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Conservative says "I also don't feel the need to proclaim my Christianity. I live it."

Jeez, you proclaim it in almost every post in one form or the other. But hey, must be nice to be in possession of absolute truths without the need to worry yourself with critical thinking. Everything one needs to know wrapped up in one book. How convenient.

July 2, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.
conservative said...

hotdiggity,

You have confused me with somone else. You might want to look before you leap.

July 2, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

These people come here knowing how to fish. All they are seeking is the fish filled pond where they can drop in their line.

Is that statement not putting them all in one box? I have no problem with those that know how and are willing to fish and be self sufficient. Talk to some agents contending with the issue and you will learn many come to illegally distribute and steal from those that will work. The only sure control is through employers including those with domestic help, landscaping and other for cash work. Anyone employing an undocumented immigrant should suffer a severe penalty. If you employ illegals without sponsoring them and getting the right documents I hope you lose your business and all assets accumulated through the business. All employers, including individuals, should be required to inform authorities of their need for employees and have them cleared by the department of homeland security before considering them for employment. Any employer violating the immigrant employment law should not be allowed to continue being in business.

July 2, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

CBO Calculation Error Explodes Immigration Surplus Claim

By Wynton Hall:

The CBO’s projections are based on the assumption that immigrants will pay Social Security taxes for the first 10 years and receive no benefits. But as scholar Paul Gregory points out the CBO incorrectly “counts each year’s Social Security contributions by immigrants in the positive column without making provisions for future benefits, which will be about twice what the immigrants contributed over the long term.”

The CBO also failed to report on the bill’s impact on the states and municipalities who will have to cover some $10,000 per school student and Medicaid costs.

Gregory says the immigration bill would only add budgetary surpluses if the law brought an influx of high-income immigrants.

“A family of two parents and three school-age children (immigrant or otherwise) earning $25,000 per year draws some $25,000 more in government benefits than it pays in taxes,” writes Gregory.

He adds: “Immigration will add to deficits if the average immigrant family earns $25,000 per year. It will add to surpluses, if it earns $150,000. These are simple facts not subject to dispute.”

July 2, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

CBO: Immigration Bill Would Drive Down American Workers' Wages

By Matthew Boyle:

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) report on the Senate's immigration bill predicts that the legislation would drive down the wages of American workers and make it difficult for Americans to find jobs in an already-damaged economy.

On page seven of the analysis, the CBO and JCT conclude that the "Gang of Eight" bill would drive down American workers’ wages.

“Taking into account all of those flows of new immigrants, CBO and JCT expect that a greater number of immigrants with lower skills than with higher skills would be added to the workforce, slightly pushing down the average wage for the labor force as a whole, other things being equal,” the report reads.

On the same page, the CBO and JCT analysis found that illegal immigrants who would receive amnesty, or legalized status, would see a spike in their income while Americans’ incomes dropped.

Similarly, a bullet point on page nine shows that CBO and JCT believe that demand for workers would “dampen,” meaning it would be harder for Americans to find jobs if the bill passed. “Although the average wage would be lower than under current law over the first dozen years, the minimum wage would keep the wages of some less skilled workers from falling, dampening businesses’ demand for those workers,” the analysis states.

“In light of recent debates on comprehensive immigration reform, we are writing to address a rarely-discussed effect of granting legal status or effective amnesty to illegal immigrants,” three Civil Rights Commission members wrote to members of Congress in April, arguing that the Gang of Eight bill would negatively impact America’s black communities. “Such grant of legal status will likely disproportionately harm lower-skilled African-Americans by making it more difficult for them to obtain employment and depressing their wages when they do obtain employment."

July 2, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

Paul Gregory points out the CBO incorrectly “counts each year’s Social Security contributions by immigrants in the positive column without making provisions for future benefits, which will be about twice what the immigrants contributed over the long term.”

Remember the statement figures don't lie but liars figure. Those suggesting it is economically beneficial are like one member of congress stated in an interview "I am just not good with numbers". Those highly skilled and well paid are indeed contributors and needed in certain disciplines.

July 2, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Obamacare dead on arrival. As is his entire presidency. Economy sux. Foreign policy non-existent. Leftists wearing blinders.

July 2, 2013 at 6:45 p.m.
GameOn said...

alprova said... Illegal aliens do not come here for no reason. They come here out of pure and unadulterated desperation. They are HUMANS, first and foremost, simply looking for some stability for themselves and their families, something that many of them have never experienced in their lives.

Some people committ robbery for the same reasons. What should we do with them? Let them keep the loot?

Do you pick which laws to obey?

I truly believe most illegals come to the USA for a better life. However, we all must obey the laws of the land and they should be enforced.

July 2, 2013 at 8:05 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^^^^^The dems are fighting enforcement tooth and nail.

July 2, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.
jesse said...

The government ,from top to bottom is a pack of liars,crooks,conmen and flat out gangsters!

It's time for the second revolution!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/james-clapper-nsa_n_3536483.html

maybe the best thing that could happen is a nuke on D.C.! Start over w/a brand new slate!

BTW: TFP .Why can i still post on this thread and i am barred from even reading any thing else on this rag?No way i'm gonna pay so make up your mind!

July 2, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Closer and closer you creep toward the edge, Alpo."

What edge is that?

July 2, 2013 at 10:20 p.m.
jesse said...

Al.It's kinda scary when you are creeping closer and closer to the edge and only P.T. knows where the edge is at!

BUT be aware that he will let you know when you drop off the edge!!

July 2, 2013 at 10:28 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Is that statement not putting them all in one box?"

Not really.

"I have no problem with those that know how and are willing to fish and be self sufficient. Talk to some agents contending with the issue and you will learn many come to illegally distribute and steal from those that will work."

Clearly, any employer who would hire an illegal over an American is violating the law and they would deserve to be punished for doing it.

"The only sure control is through employers including those with domestic help, landscaping and other for cash work. Anyone employing an undocumented immigrant should suffer a severe penalty."

Most plead ignorance and get away with it.

"If you employ illegals without sponsoring them and getting the right documents I hope you lose your business and all assets accumulated through the business."

Fortunately, this is not Russia.

"All employers, including individuals, should be required to inform authorities of their need for employees and have them cleared by the department of homeland security before considering them for employment. Any employer violating the immigrant employment law should not be allowed to continue being in business."

As someone who has been through multiple enforcement audits, not related to this issue, I can tell you that no field agent/auditor has any desire to put anyone out of business. If the financial status is such that imposing fines would place a business in danger of closing its doors, fines are often waived.

Hand-slaps are quite common.

July 2, 2013 at 10:30 p.m.
alprova said...

GameOn wrote: "Some people committ robbery for the same reasons. What should we do with them? Let them keep the loot?"

You're making a very unfair comparison. Robbery is a violation that includes the intrusion and theft of personal belongings. There are victims who are directly affected by such crime.

The presence of the vast majority of illegals does not in any manner harm, infringe upon, or are even noticed by most Americans.

"Do you pick which laws to obey?"

Ask that question to anyone who has driven over the speed limit while operating their personal vehicle, or who has ever failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. How about those who drink and drive, who get away with it?

Do you think that most Americans have lived a life without violating some law their entire lives?

"I truly believe most illegals come to the USA for a better life. However, we all must obey the laws of the land and they should be enforced."

Have you obeyed every law on the books your entire life?

July 2, 2013 at 10:40 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "BTW: TFP .Why can i still post on this thread and i am barred from even reading any thing else on this rag?No way i'm gonna pay so make up your mind!"

I'm glad to pay for access to the entire site and th E-edition of the paper. 56 cents a day and no paper to dispose of? I like it.

July 2, 2013 at 10:47 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Al.It's kinda scary when you are creeping closer and closer to the edge and only P.T. knows where the edge is at!"

I know.

"BUT be aware that he will let you know when you drop off the edge!!"

I'm on pins and needles worrying about going too close to PT's edge.

July 2, 2013 at 10:58 p.m.
Maximus said...

Well lookie here!!!!!!! Obama puts off the full implementation of Obamacare until 2015,,,,, employers with 50 or more employees will not be subject to fines for not providing health insurance benefit until,,,,,wait for it....AFTER the Mid Term Elections! You stupid Obama voters I told you that Obama was nothing more than a common union thug community organizer from Chicago that will do anything for power, Meanwhile, Barry Thr Welfare Pimp continues his tour of Africa giving away $$$$$$$ billions in borrowed money your grandchildren will somehow have to pay back. Meanwhile Egypt is in flames a result of Hillary Clinton's fine work as SOS! Everything she touches seems to go down in flames! Benghazi cocktails anyone, compliments of the Muslim Brotherhood! Cool. :)

July 3, 2013 at 12:28 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Hand-slaps are quite common.

Unfortunately that is true which is certainly not a deterrent to others tempted to do the same. But, Paula Deane uses a term 30+ years ago that is offensive or politically incorrect and the media attacks and essentially destroys her. Nothing in the constitution or life in general says being fair is required.

alprova responded to the statement........"If you employ illegals without sponsoring them and getting the right documents I hope you lose your business and all assets accumulated through the business." with

Fortunately, this is not Russia.

Russia is corrupt and paying off enforcers is common practice. The driver there is loyalty to the government to have them look the other way. I assume you meant breaking the law by employing illegal immigrants in the U.S. should be mild with no punitive action? No wonder it is a growing problem.

July 3, 2013 at 12:40 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Obama delaying obamacare until after the elections....just coincidence. bwahahahahahahahaha

July 3, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.
jesse said...

By taking the positions he does on certain issues Al gets out of bed every morning telling hisself what a GOOD person he is!!

THATS the motive dude!Gotta pump up your self esteem any way ya can!!

Clay Bennett suffers from the same affiliction!!

July 3, 2013 at 8:08 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPO is a legend in his spare time.

July 3, 2013 at 8:22 a.m.
degage said...

Right PT, Obama thinks the people are so stupid they won't see through his ploy. I'm sure their are many who really believe any thing he says. But He just might have run into a brick wall when it comes to those with at least enough brain cells to see what he is up to. More than three years and they can't figure how to implement this ridiculous Bill.

July 3, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.
alprova said...

PT, why would you believe that anyone who hangs out in here would have any problem with someone wearing a cross?

That is a perfectly sane and a very unimposing demonstration of one's Christian belief.

As it is, the school's management has profusely apologized for the actions of one misguided supervisor, who may have had some personal objection to it and who acted alone, but your assertion that all "lefties" would have some objection to someone wearing a cross, is rather stupid.

It's nice to see that you have jumped off that fence that I was sure never existed to start with and joined those who love to complain about the most silly things.

July 3, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.
degage said...

Not all lefties Al. The mostly left leaning Atheist, would have been happy if it had been upheld by the university.

July 3, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "By taking the positions he does on certain issues Al gets out of bed every morning telling hisself what a GOOD person he is!!"

I like the person I have come to be. I once was as miserable as some of you seem to be. Then I discovered liberalism. Nothing gets me down these days. I've got not a worry in the world.

"THATS the motive dude!Gotta pump up your self esteem any way ya can!!"

I have no need to pump up my esteem. I'm quite social, have lots of friends, and life is good.

"Clay Bennett suffers from the same affiliction!!"

Armchair psychologists sure are a hoot!!

July 3, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.
Maximus said...

I'm afraid Mr. Zimmerman is toast even though busting a cap in Trevon Martin was self defense. Just like Obama has politicized our healthcare our legal system is a zoo also!

July 3, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpy. Thanks for calling me stupid. I will amend statement to most lefties.

July 3, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Not all lefties Al. The mostly left leaning Atheist, would have been happy if it had been upheld by the university."

Atheists are quite passionate in their quest to insure that church and state are on their side of the line, but I have never heard of an Atheist accosting someone for wearing a simple cross.

The story that PT linked to doesn't even indicate that the supervisor who asked the girl to remove the cross, was an Atheist. The supervisor, in error, thought that it might offend certain people.

The man was wrong and the school intervened when it became aware of it.

I really fail to understand why some people try to make a mountain out of a molehill all the time.

July 3, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
jesse said...

Zimmerman is gonna walk!!count on it!

The most inept prosecution in history

AND they never had a case to start with!!

July 3, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

I fear JonRoss is correct. Prosecution caved in to minorities on this one. Charges should never have been made.

July 3, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.
GameOn said...

alprova said...You're making a very unfair comparison. Robbery is a violation that includes the intrusion and theft of personal belongings. There are victims who are directly affected by such crime.

A large percentage of illegal aliens have stolen goods and services from U.S. taxpayers. The comparison was very fair.

I have no problem with anyone coming to this country legally. I don't like standing in line to renew my drivers license but I do it.

July 3, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

GameOn: You are clearly a hate-filled bigot. Right, Alpo?

July 3, 2013 at 10:23 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpy. Thanks for calling me stupid."

No thanks required.

"I will amend statement to most lefties."

Sir, you're still wrong. That offering asserts that most "lefties" would have some issue with a girl wearing a cross, and that is a ridiculous assertion.

Contrary to the opinion of some people, most "lefties" are not Atheists, against religious expression, and love the concept of Christmas.

When you attempt to box people all the time, it's very easy to make some very incorrect assertions.

July 3, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.
alprova said...

GmeOn wrote: "A large percentage of illegal aliens have stolen goods and services from U.S. taxpayers. The comparison was very fair."

What goods and services are you referring to that you feel were "stolen?"

July 3, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Teyvon Martin would still be alive and well if George Zimmerman had done two things, and the jury will be made well aware of it.

1.) As a trained watch commander with the Neighborhood Watch program, George Zimmerman knew that following anyone suspected of being up to no good is prohibited.

2.) Any citizen trained to be a Neighborhood Watch "patrol person" is never, ever to be armed.

Clearly, testimony has proven that George Zimmerman refused the 911 operator demand that he not follow Treyvon Martin, and that right there will be exposed as a fatal flaw in his self-defense claim.

My prediction? George Zimmerman will be convicted, not for 2nd degree murder, but for manslaughter.

July 3, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "I agree with alpo. If I break into alpo's home, eat his food, sleep in his bed, and empty his medicine cabinet, I have done nothing wrong."

Your attributing a scenario to me that I have never written.

I would love for one of you to dig up any evidence that illegal aliens are on a wide scale, known for breaking into people's homes, eating their food, sleeping in the homeowner's beds, and emptying their medicine cabinets.

July 3, 2013 at 10:51 a.m.
tifosi said...

"It appears that Barry O's dream of a Sharia controlled Egypt is not going to happen now."

Just perpetuating your legacy of ignorance.

July 3, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "It appears that Barry O's dream of a Sharia controlled Egypt is not going to happen now."

You anti-Obama idiots are all the same. You refuse to be accurate about anything.

President Obama supported the election process that installed Morsi to his leadership position. He has been very cautious and very reserved in his support of the man.

As a matter of fact, less than 24 hours ago, he called Mohammed Morsi to urge him to be responsive to the demonstrators and told him that the United States does not support any single party or group in Egypt.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/02/obama-calls-egypts-morsi-and-says-u-s-does-not-support-either-side/

July 3, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "There is no difference between someone illegally entering our country and obtaining services and someone entering alpo's house and using the contents of his house."

I'll let you explain that one to God. He owns it all. You're merely borrowing it while you live on this Earth.

July 3, 2013 at 11:06 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "No tifosi, just like to watch Progressive half-wits get their panties in a wad."

I'm sure you do. It helps you take your mind off of your financial difficulties and the millions you almost made, but let slip right through your fingers.

July 3, 2013 at 11:10 a.m.
alprova said...

President Obama had no more influence in the elections held in Egypt, than Mohammad Morsi had in ours.

Some of you people really need to take off the tin foil hats. They are rotting your brains.

July 3, 2013 at 11:14 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "A very awkward deflection on your part alpo."

I'm sure you see it that way, but the way I see it, I swished one in the basket from the center line.

God didn't create so much as one border. He gave this Earth to us all. We are all supposed to be in this thing together. Assisting those in need is not a request. He and his Son command us to do it.

Do you still want to argue about ignoring man-made laws?

July 3, 2013 at 11:21 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, you're the last one that should be talking about "boxing people". The more I read you, the more I believe you're an TFP stooge.

July 3, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo, you're the last one that should be talking about "boxing people"."

I very rarely make the mistake of labeling all people in a group the same.

"The more I read you, the more I believe you're a TFP stooge."

I assure you, I am not.

July 3, 2013 at 12:44 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "I am confused."

You're just now discovering that? People who have known you, or who know about you, have been aware of that fact for quite sometime.

July 3, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

alpo said of JonRoss "You're just now discovering that? People who have known you, or who know about you, have been aware of that fact for quite sometime." I don't know JonRoss, but I once lived right off his road.

July 3, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
fairmon said...

PlainTruth said...

ALPO is a legend in his spare time.

You are right PT, you know he can Google with the best although he is deceptively slow determining which way the liberal wind will blow.

July 3, 2013 at 2:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

fairmon: He lost most of his leftist buddies to TFP toll. He's carrying most of the water now.

July 3, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
fairmon said...

NSA can track who is calling who where but we cannot find those here illegally? Make sure they all have a free cell phone, use it to determine their location. Al Gore after discovering the internet cast the deciding vote for a connectivity charge which along with other taxes and fees add about 30% to the cost. This is so those that can pay for their phone will also pay for those that don't pay for theirs. Provide those working with the right paper work and allow them to stay as long as they have a legitimate job, pay taxes and need no government financial help. One ICE agent per 3-400,000 probably won't get the job done. 20,000 border patrol agents to be added but zero ICE agents, another brilliant move by congress.

July 3, 2013 at 2:34 p.m.
May said...

I get the argument that illegal aliens are humans and they should be welcomed with open arms because their country is terrible. However, the United States isn't perfect and is in no condition to support them right now. Here are three brief problems:

-The unemployment rate is terrible and they aren't helping. There are arguments saying that they take the jobs that no one wants, like cleaning up garbage or construction; however, college students such as myself are desperate for a job and would gladly take low tier jobs to get through school. It should be available to us as American citizens, but instead it's given to illegal aliens because they get paid significantly less under the table.

-The sheer number of illegal immigrants causes overpopulation. This means that there is less food, housing, everything in general for American citizens.

-Benefits that American citizens are entitled to such as WIC, government housing, etc are being taken up by them and making taxpayers pay more to support them. I have seen illegal families purposefully pump out kids in order to get financial compensation for each one. This is absurd.

And here's what gets me. What about other questions that the debate raises, such as:

-You can already get American citizenship from joining the military and serving some time with them. Why aren't they doing this?

-What about all the other people who moved here legally? Was all their hard work for nothing, or should have have concentrated on illegal means to get here?

-Why does America need to pay the price helping them if they can't help themselves? Their government is corrupt, but so was Syria's, Egypt's, Libya's, etc and look what happened. Why can't they rebel and fight to overthrow their current government?

July 3, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

John Ross....Don't be sarcastic you know the delay was to move the bad news about Obama care past the 2014 elections. If they were serious about requiring people to have healthcare insurance they would do away with requiring hospitals to take care of anyone that did not have it. Then give them options of where and how to get it and provide it if the individual cannot share the cost.

July 3, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.

Good to see Obama is respected around the world. His "bitch" Morsi is being booted out. Obama is a clunker.

July 3, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Barry says the Morsi situation is under investigation, therefore he will not comment.

July 3, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

daytonsdarwin said...

Is Conservative real or a figment of his own imagination? I do know that Conservative drives people into the ranks of non-bible literalists, agnostics, and atheists everyday.

Conservative remains the best recruiting tool out there for freethinking individuals; Lohr runs a distant second.

Keep up the good work and thanks for the laughs.


So you're admitting that Conservative and AndrewLohr are turning people like you into Pansies?

July 3, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said ...

I like the person I have come to be. I once was as miserable as some of you seem to be. Then I discovered liberalism. Nothing gets me down these days. I've got not a worry in the world.

I have no need to pump up my esteem. I'm quite social, have lots of friends, and life is good.


Amazing Liberalism, how sweet the sound,

That saved a tool like me.

I once was lost but now am found,

Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Obama that taught my heart to fear.

And Obama, my fears relieved.

How precious did Liberalism appear

The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares

I have already come;

'Tis Obama that brought me safe thus far

and Obama will lead me home.

His grace has promised good to me.

His word my hope secures.

He will my shield and portion be,

As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,

And mortal life shall cease,

I shall possess within the veil,

A life of joy and peace.

When he has been here eight glorious years

Bright shining as the sun.

We've no less days to sing Obama’s praise

Than when we've first begun.


With apologies to Amazing Grace.

July 3, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.
alprova said...

Folks, the only part of ObamaCare that has been delayed is the mandate that employers with 50 employees must be provided heath care coverage.

The individual mandate is still going into effect on January 1, 2014.

ALL of ObamaCare has not been delayed.

July 3, 2013 at 4:40 p.m.
tifosi said...

JonRoss - Do you have anything constructive and positive to say about President Obama? The man selected by the American people, through a democratic process and the law of the land, to represent them and lead them. Or, do the American people mean nothing and your total disrespect and destructive dialogue about their leader is somehow your idea of the American spirit?

Happy 4th of July to this great nation and the incredible freedom that we enjoy.

July 3, 2013 at 4:44 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "You are right PT, you know he can Google with the best although he is deceptively slow determining which way the liberal wind will blow."

Could that be due to the fact that I am not totally on board with all things liberal?

July 3, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^^^ Tifosi: I do. He's a smooth bee esser.

July 3, 2013 at 4:49 p.m.
tifosi said...

Thank you President Obama. Through your leadership our world is a safer place.

In a statement, U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz said, "Today, with the complete removal of all highly enriched uranium from Vietnam, we can say that Vietnam's decision to remove and secure vulnerable nuclear material demonstrates the international community's commitment to ensure that terrorists never acquire a nuclear weapon."

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/munger/2013/07/back-to-russia.html#more

July 3, 2013 at 4:49 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Egypt: The Solyndra of Barry's foreign policy.

July 3, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.
tifosi said...

You seem to think we are supposed to control Egypt's democratic process. What a moron.

July 3, 2013 at 5:03 p.m.
alprova said...

Isn't it simply amazing that a man like Barack Obama, who was virtually unknown to the world, much less the American people a decade ago, has become the all encompassing, all knowing, blame for everything that goes wrong, kinda worldwide leader, capable of forcing people around the world to vote for canidates "of his choice" in the elections around the world?

How has such a man risen from no where to dominate the entire world?

How is it that this man, will single handedly be able to install himself as King of the United States, in three more years, who will then have more power and influence on world politics than the Pope?

I'm calling for a national suicide day, tomorrow, July 4, 2013, to protest this man who is destroying the world, not to mention the United States of America.

Just throw a good old rope around the nearest high sturdy limb of a tree, tie a noose in it, step up on a stool, put the noose around your neck, kick yourself off the stool.

Don't forget to pin a note on your shirt that explains that you are doing this to protest the Obamanation of the world.

July 3, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.

tifosi, just because he was elected, does not mean he's above criticism. if one doesn't agree with him and the direction he's taking this country, then they have right as Americans to be very critical of him if they choose. Deal with it. You lefties are hypocrites.

July 3, 2013 at 5:04 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Teyvon Martin would still be alive and well if George Zimmerman had done two things, and the jury will be made well aware of it.

1.) As a trained watch commander with the Neighborhood Watch program, George Zimmerman knew that following anyone suspected of being up to no good is prohibited.

(That is a falsehood as was proven by testimony, during the trial, by the police officer in charge of neighborhood watch programs.)

2.) Any citizen trained to be a Neighborhood Watch "patrol person" is never, ever to be armed.

(That is also a falsehood as per the testimony of the person above.)

Clearly, testimony has proven that George Zimmerman refused the 911 operator demand that he not follow Treyvon Martin, and that right there will be exposed as a fatal flaw in his self-defense claim.

(That is also a falsehood as that claim has been made but so far unproven by any facts presented)

My prediction? George Zimmerman will be convicted, not for 2nd degree murder, but for manslaughter.

(You are entitled to your opinion but it carries absolutely no weight in any determination made by that court so it’s just a useless exersize on your part.)

July 3, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
tifosi said...

Criticism is absolutely necessary for our democracy to survive. The vile and demeaning words serve absolutely no purpose but to spit on the American people and our civil, democratic process. I am neither liberal nor conservative. I am not a Democrat or Republican. I am an American.

Look at my arms, you will find no hand-cuff on them.

July 3, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

"vile and demeaning words", eh Tifosi? Like calling others morons? Like that?

July 3, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.
alprova said...

zableedofisterix, your statement wouldn't be so hilarious, if it were not for the fact that for some reason, those of you who love to ladle all that "criticism," refuse to inform yourselves to certain facts surrounding that which you consider to be the wrong direction that the man is heading this country in.

Has anyone's life, among us here who participate in this forum, been directly affected by the presence of Barack Obama as President?

Mine has, and it has been all positive.

I have had PCIP health care insurance in effect for a year and a half, thanks to ObamaCare. Prior to that, I was literally shut out of the health care insurance market, as an individual, despite my willingness and ability to be able to pay for a policy.

As a self-employed man and a small business owner, I have received some rather generous tax breaks that allows me to provide health care coverage for my employees, one of which is slated to increase another 15 percent in six months.

The economy has been slowly, and steadily improving since six months after the man walked into the Oval Office in January 20, 2009. I don't give him full credit for all that has happened that has led to this slow economic improvement, but facts are facts.

Our economy is in far better shape since he has been in office.

I have been able to not only get a business off the ground and running, it has thrived and continues to grow.

In my small pond, located in a very large nation, I have nothing but praise for the direction that this nation is headed currently.

Much of my business depends on the actions of the Georgia legislators and the Governor of Georgia, who happens to be a Republican.

Together, they have enacted a very big and obscure tax break for the people in Georgia, that has allowed my business to increase sales of large ticket items.

I'm in love with Nathan Deal at the moment. He has my undying support at the moment, for he truly is looking out for the people who reside within Georgia's borders.

This nation doggone well hit near bottom just before President Obama took office. I'm sure that many people's lives have vastly improved since 2009.

What possible complain could some of you have about the direction that this country is headed?

Please...indulge me with some of the details.

July 3, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo says " ALL of obamacare has not been delayed"

Bobby Jendal says "You know things are bad when you can’t even successfully implement your own bad ideas."

PT says....bwahahahaha

July 3, 2013 at 5:33 p.m.
rick1 said...

Since Al is doing so well the rest of us do not know what we are talking about and we are not to question Obama's economic polices.

Al this is the slowest recovery since FDR and all of Obama's meddling is the reason. ObamaCare is a disaster and we have had discussions on this in the past. ObamaCare will cost us all more money and cut into the number of hours employees work. A cursory search of official announcements from employers by IBD revealed cuts in the workweek for 16,500 workers ahead of the onset of ObamaCare penalties. So go ahead and tell the people who are having their hours cut the economy is getting better.

I'm glad you are doing well but are you sharing your good fortunes with your employees. Last year I believe you said your employees make $11 plus an hour and with their bonus they can make $15 per hour. Now the only reason your are getting the tax break to provide health care to your employees is because they are in the low to moderate income range. So why don't you increase their pay so they are no longer in the low to moderate income range since you are doing so well.

Under Obama the rich are getting richer and the poor and getting poorer and this economic recovery has been terrible. Unemployment for blacks is sky high and more people have become discourage and have given up looking for work because they can now go out on disability Forty percent of the population was on some form of public assistance when the president took office; today, that number stands at 55 percent.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042413-653244-rich-get-richer-poor-poorer-under-obama.htm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/01/obama-wins-the-gold-for-worst-economic-recovery-ever/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/what-recovery/

http://www.stc-law.com/medical-conditions/anxiety.html

http://news.investors.com/070313-662427-16500-work-fewer-hours-from-obamacare-employer-mandate.htm

July 3, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

JonRoss. ^^^ pretty much

July 3, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.
rick1 said...

Once again Obama shows his hate and contempt for our country and gives us the middle finger when it comes to following the law. Neither the IRS or Obama have the authority to delay the employer mandate.

Congress gave neither the IRS nor the president any authority to delay the imposition of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’s employer mandate. In the section of the law creating that mandate, Congress included several provisions indicating the mandate will take effect in 2014. In case those provisions were not clear enough, Section 4980H further clarifies:

(d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to months beginning after December 31, 2013.

http://www.cato.org/blog/delaying-employer-mandate-requires-delaying-all-obamacare

July 3, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.
degage said...

No Al, you go ahead do the suicide and take Obama with you. And pin a note on your shirts saying, I'm sorry! The rest of us will fix the mess made by the progressives.

July 3, 2013 at 7:25 p.m.
alprova said...

JT has decide to respond to my George Zimmerman post.

I previously wrote: "1.) As a trained watch commander with the Neighborhood Watch program, George Zimmerman knew that following anyone suspected of being up to no good is prohibited."

JT responded with: "(That is a falsehood as was proven by testimony, during the trial, by the police officer in charge of neighborhood watch programs.)"

I followed up with: "2.) Any citizen trained to be a Neighborhood Watch "patrol person" is never, ever to be armed."

JT: "(That is also a falsehood as per the testimony of the person above.)"

I was waiting for you to respond. You're so predictable.

Read the Neighborhood Watch training manual. On page 16-17 you will read, "Two or more individuals, often from the same family, patrol during designated tours of duty and may detect suspicious activity not noticed by stationary observers....Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles...Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."

https://www.bja.gov/Publications/NSA_NW_Manual.pdf

Me: "Clearly, testimony has proven that George Zimmerman refused the 911 operator demand that he not follow Treyvon Martin, and that right there will be exposed as a fatal flaw in his self-defense claim."

"(That is also a falsehood as that claim has been made but so far unproven by any facts presented)"

Have you seen a map of where the shooting occurred relative to where George Zimmerman's pickup truck was located?

He never retreated. In fact the 811 call recored him running for another half minute.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/7/5/9/4/6/9/i/1/1/0/o/TrayvonMap.jpg

http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map-with-911-call-timing.jpg

Me: "My prediction? George Zimmerman will be convicted, not for 2nd degree murder, but for manslaughter."

JT: "(You are entitled to your opinion but it carries absolutely no weight in any determination made by that court so it’s just a useless exersize (sic) on your part.)"

Did I offer it as anything other than my opinion and a prediction of how the jury will rule?

July 3, 2013 at 7:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Between the libs and the press, Zimmerman is toast.

July 3, 2013 at 7:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Rick1 wrote: "Al this is the slowest recovery since FDR and all of Obama's meddling is the reason."

It is also the deepest recession since the Great Depression, and your opinion is not fact.

"ObamaCare is a disaster and we have had discussions on this in the past."

And come October 1, 2013, I'm sure we will have lots to discuss. Until then...

"ObamaCare will cost us all more money and cut into the number of hours employees work."

Chicken-wing flapping.

"A cursory search of official announcements from employers by IBD revealed cuts in the workweek for 16,500 workers ahead of the onset of ObamaCare penalties. So go ahead and tell the people who are having their hours cut the economy is getting better."

I cannot help, nor change, what stupid and ignorant people are doing in anticipation of all the doom and gloom that is ongoing at the moment. Delaying the employer mandate is in direct response to the lack of information that employers have access to, or to prevent the GOP from being able to use the confusion as a talking point in the 2014 mid-term elections, depending on whom you talk to.

"I'm glad you are doing well but are you sharing your good fortunes with your employees. Last year I believe you said your employees make $11 plus an hour and with their bonus they can make $15 per hour."

I don't remember posting a dollar amount, but I may well have.

"Now the only reason your are getting the tax break to provide health care to your employees is because they are in the low to moderate income range."

I receive those tax breaks due to the size of my business. The threshold to be able to claim that credit ends at about $962 a week. That's slightly over $24.00 an hour @ 40 hours a week.

Lower and moderate incomes?

"So why don't you increase their pay so they are no longer in the low to moderate income range since you are doing so well."

We probably would find disagreement in the terminology of what constitutes "doing so well." To you, it may mean that I am earning ten thousand a month. Me? It means that I am able to pay all my bills and have a little left over to save for emergencies, to put a little into my Roth, to be able to dine out one night a week.

"Under Obama the rich are getting richer and the poor and getting poorer and this economic recovery has been terrible."

I suppose you are one of those who believe that any President can just wave a magic wand and all will be solved overnight.

"Unemployment for blacks is sky high and more people have become discourage and have given up looking for work because they can now go out on disability Forty percent of the population was on some form of public assistance when the president took office; today, that number stands at 55 percent."

Anyone who truly wants a job can find one. It may not be one they want, but any assertion that people who truly need to work are unable to find a job, is pure and unadulterated BS.

July 3, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Once again Obama shows his hate and contempt for our country and gives us the middle finger when it comes to following the law. Neither the IRS or Obama have the authority to delay the employer mandate."

Hilarious!! I fully expect the GOP to pick up that ball and run with it too. 37 times they have voted to repeal it. Now they are going to beotch about a delay in the employer mandate, on the grounds that the President has no authority to delay it?

Priceless...simply priceless.

July 3, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.
jesse said...

HEY AL?? Can you give me ONE example of when Obama has been wrong or screwed up? In your opionion of course! Just ONE!!That's all i am askin ,Just one!!

July 3, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Barry is inerrant.

July 3, 2013 at 8:19 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "No Al, you go ahead do the suicide and take Obama with you. And pin a note on your shirts saying, I'm sorry! The rest of us will fix the mess made by the progressives."

Sshhhhhh. Don't tell anyone, but it is the progressives that are fixing the mess without any help of the conservatives.

And if you look back throughout the history of this country, the economy of this nation has always been flying high every single time a Democrat has left the office as President.

On the other hand, the economy has almost always gone south whenever a Republican leaves office.

Reagan was the one and only exception.

During the best 40 years of economic stability that this nation has ever seen, the Congress was dominated by Democrats.

It is because people let slip into the backs of their minds which party has the interests of the lower and middle classes, that we are now in the mess we are in.

By the time Barack Obama leaves office in three and a half more years, whomever he throws his support behind, will be the next President.

The only hope that the Republican Party has, is Chris Christie, if he continues to demonstrate his ability to set partisan politics aside for the good of the people.

Otherwise, get ready for Hillary. She will become the first female and second consecutive Democrat in what will be a long line of Democrats to grace the Oval Office for years to come.

As long as the Republicans continue to have their asses on their shoulders and only rich men on their radar screens, the further downhill they will go.

July 3, 2013 at 8:23 p.m.
degage said...

Yuup Al, the delay is to help the dems with the 2014 election. And the lack of Information is the fault of those trying to implement this disaster of a health care bill. It helps you because of your health problems and that is OK but it does not help many others that have to pay more to cover your azz. Of course why should you care , you are being taken care of. Do you have kids or grandkids? If you do you do realize they will be the ones to pay for this.

July 3, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al in your 8:08pm post you wrote Hilarious!! I fully expect the GOP to pick up that ball and run with it too. 37 times they have voted to repeal it. Now they are going to beotch about a delay in the employer mandate, on the grounds that the President has no authority to delay it?

Priceless...simply priceless.

I noticed you failed to address this part of my post Congress gave neither the IRS nor the president any authority to delay the imposition of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’s employer mandate. In the section of the law creating that mandate, Congress included several provisions indicating the mandate will take effect in 2014. In case those provisions were not clear enough, Section 4980H further clarifies:

(d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to months beginning after December 31, 2013.

What is priceless is how you continue to embarrass yourself by defending Obama.

July 3, 2013 at 8:43 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "HEY AL?? Can you give me ONE example of when Obama has been wrong or screwed up? In your opionion of course! Just ONE!!That's all i am askin ,Just one!!"

I disagreed with the Cash For Clunkers program, only because while it boosted car sales of new vehicles for a brief period of time, it has had a negative and lasting effect on the wholesale and retail prices, as well as the supply of used cars.

I disagree with his resolve to involve the U.S. in the struggle for Governmental domination in Syria.

I would have liked to have seen him, as President, do more to convince African-Americans that he is not their savior and that he is an example of what hard work and determination can achieve.

I think he missed a golden opportunity to convince America that guns need to be regulated not only because they are used in schools to kill white children, but because guns have been adopted as the main means by which to settle scores.

And, since he identifies himself as an African-American, he has done a convincingly good job to promote himself as the President of all the American people. He polls well among the poor, the women, and LBGT's, but he's not spent enough time addressing the need for employers to set aside their prejudices and to judge each and every African-American as an individual.

There's more I could offer, but you asked for one and I gave you five.

July 3, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.
tifosi said...

It's a whine and cheese party for the whiners that lost the last presidential election. They just can't suck it up and move on. Can't wait until the Democrats have full majority because Americans will grow tired of the whiners that stagnate this country and spew hatred and vile words with no value. Then comes Hillary!!!

Alprova: Got a crying towel for the losers?

July 3, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.
jesse said...

Al keeps arguing w/ con man about the bible and con man just can't be convinced Obama is GOD!!Of course Con man thinks HE IS GOD!!

Bad situation!

July 3, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al you just can not help yourself when it comes to defending Obama. In response to your post at 5:30pm you spoke about how well the economy is doing and asked for details to show other wise. I posted "ObamaCare will cost us all more money and cut into the number of hours employees work."

Your response was "Chicken-wing flapping." Now if you would have read the link I provided it lists private companies, local governments and colleges and universities that have all ready announced they are cutting back on workers hours.

I posted "ObamaCare is a disaster and we have had discussions on this in the past."

Your response was "And come October 1, 2013, I'm sure we will have lots to discuss. Until then..." It is already happening Al why do you think the Obama Administration has already pushed back the employee mandate to 2015.

You wrote "Lower and moderate incomes?"

From the IRS website: Small Business Health Care Tax Credit

This new credit helps small businesses and small tax-exempt organizations afford the cost of covering their employees and is specifically targeted for those with low- and moderate-income workers. The credit is designed to encourage small employers to offer health insurance coverage for the first time or maintain coverage they already have. In general, the credit is available to small employers that pay at least half the cost of single coverage for their employees. Learn more by browsing our page on the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit for Small Employers and our news release.

Health Flexible Spending Arrangements

Al posted "Anyone who truly wants a job can find one. It may not be one they want, but any assertion that people who truly need to work are unable to find a job, is pure and unadulterated BS."

Our government has more people then ever before on government assistance since Obama took office and that is a fact. The more people who are on the government dole the better chance they will vote for democrats and that is a fact as well. Yes there are jobs but this administration has made it easier and acceptable for people who are able to work to stay on government assistance for the rest of their lives.

July 3, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Yuup Al, the delay is to help the dems with the 2014 election."

Obama conspiracy theory number 12,456.

"And the lack of Information is the fault of those trying to implement this disaster of a health care bill."

That may be, but it is the largest change to this nation's health care system. I'm sure that the transformation will be filled with all kinds of bumps in the road. This is just one of them.

"It helps you because of your health problems and that is OK but it does not help many others that have to pay more to cover your azz."

Sir, I pay the vast majority of my health care costs. The policy I have covers, for the most part, costs that are incurred in the event I am hospitalized. I have not been hospitalized since it has been in effect. I pay 100% of my meds, my check-ups, with the exception of the research medications and visits, which are comped by Eli Lily and Company.

"Of course why should you care , you are being taken care of."

The sentiment of that comment aside, the fact of the matter is that I am now in control of all of my future health care costs and I am NOT in danger of becoming a burden to anyone.

"Do you have kids or grandkids? If you do you do realize they will be the ones to pay for this."

You're not going to flap those chicken wings and make me jump.

With all due or undue respect, I pay my taxes just like you do and I'm betting that I am STILL paying them in higher amounts than you do.

I have, over my lifetime, paid more in taxes than most people earn in their entire lives.

You're not going to shame me and make it stick for one second.

I am still self-supported. My access to the PCIP insurance program has not paid out a cent more than I have paid in premiums. In fact, unless I am hospitalized, it never will.

July 3, 2013 at 9:16 p.m.
alprova said...

tifosi wrote: "Alprova: Got a crying towel for the losers?"

Not yet, but I will have by November, 2016.

July 3, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.
tifosi said...

Lack of health care coverage is costing us even more now. Time to try something different. The same game don't work.

July 3, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "What is priceless is how you continue to embarrass yourself by defending Obama."

I'll be sure to take that under advisement and file it where it belongs.

[Plop, plop, plop....flush!!]

July 3, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.
tifosi said...

degage said: "I have, over my lifetime, paid more in taxes than most people earn in their entire lives."

I have over my lifetime sent more rounds downrange and caused more maneuver damage than my taxes and yours combined will ever pay for. You're welcome. :)

July 3, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Al keeps arguing w/ con man about the bible..."

Nope. I'm done with that. Never again.

July 3, 2013 at 9:23 p.m.
tifosi said...

Promise?

July 3, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.
jesse said...

I don't believe it!

Con man is Al's fall back guy!

July 3, 2013 at 9:37 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Your response was "Chicken-wing flapping." Now if you would have read the link I provided it lists private companies, local governments and colleges and universities that have all ready announced they are cutting back on workers hours."

I'm well aware of what is going on, and I repeat, ignorance and chicken wing flapping is causing it. No one is in any position YET to know what is to come. They are basing all their predictions on the health care insurance system that is poised to be shelved.

"Your response was "And come October 1, 2013, I'm sure we will have lots to discuss. Until then..." It is already happening Al why do you think the Obama Administration has already pushed back the employee mandate to 2015."

Let's be clear about something. The Treasury Department and Obama has not delayed the requirements of the employer mandate. They have only stated that no employer required to provide coverage would be fined for not providing insurance for another year.

The legitimate complaint is that businesses have not been informed to the premiums that will be rolled out in October. With that crucial information lacking TODAY, of course, and without question, the chicken wing flappers are winning the hearts and minds of millions who fear the worst.

"From the IRS website: Small Business Health Care Tax Credit"

"This new credit helps small businesses and small tax-exempt organizations afford the cost of covering their employees and is specifically targeted for those with low- and moderate-income workers. The credit is designed to encourage small employers to offer health insurance coverage for the first time or maintain coverage they already have. In general, the credit is available to small employers that pay at least half the cost of single coverage for their employees. Learn more by browsing our page on the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit for Small Employers and our news release."

And if you would inform yourself to the facts of that credit, and as I pointed out a while ago, you will find that the credit also is valid up to earnings of $50,000 per year.

That may not be considered "moderate" in California or New York, but here, where we live, one can live pretty well. Not many people in this area make more than $962 a week.

"Our government has more people then ever before on government assistance since Obama took office and that is a fact."

Even if you factor in every person receiving TANF benefits, which it does, the numbers are not there. Another factor of consideration is the fact that Baby Boomers have been entering the Social Security system for five years.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-01-18/fact-check-gingrich-obama-food-stamps/52645882/1

(Cont.)

July 3, 2013 at 10:10 p.m.
alprova said...

(cont.)

You're free to blame Obama if it makes you feel good, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

"The more people who are on the government dole the better chance they will vote for democrats and that is a fact as well."

It's all about the votes, eh? What have the Republicans done to help those in need? Can you name one initiative that was spawned from the Republican camp?

Could that be why the poor vote for Democrats?

"Yes there are jobs but this administration has made it easier and acceptable for people who are able to work to stay on government assistance for the rest of their lives."

Could you live on an average of $1,067 a month? That's about what they get. Yep...they live such an easy and lucrative life.

July 3, 2013 at 10:11 p.m.
GameOn said...

alprova said...What goods and services are you referring to that you feel were "stolen?"

Illegal children sitting in classrooms using up educational resources, illegals sticking hospitals with unpaid bills, automobile accidents with no insurance, taking up space in jails, etc. Yes, we are stuck with the bill. If you have no problem with illegal entry, remove the locks from your home and business.

July 3, 2013 at 10:11 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "I don't believe it! Con man is Al's fall back guy!"

Huh???

July 3, 2013 at 10:16 p.m.
alprova said...

GameOn wrote: "Illegal children sitting in classrooms using up educational resources"

They learn how to become good Americans, don't they?

"illegals sticking hospitals with unpaid bills"

I'm sure that all of them are written off.

"automobile accidents with no insurance"

Unless people are totally stupid, they have very low-cost uninsured motorists coverage that then kicks in.

"taking up space in jails"

Well gee...isn't that where you think they belong?

"If you have no problem with illegal entry, remove the locks from your home and business."

I'm so far out in the woods that I never lock my home. Haven't had a trespasser back here in several years. Posted...posted...and posted again with a "last warning" sign. I guess most people can read.

Nobody would ever break into my business. Nothing worth stealing.

You're not going to make me harden my heart to those who come here to better their lives, and I doubt yours could be cut with a diamond.

It's your problem and one that I'm sure you will have to live with for some time to come.

July 3, 2013 at 10:32 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

You're a sanctimonious sunnavagun, ALPO. Just an opinion.

July 3, 2013 at 10:34 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "You're a sanctimonious sunnavagun, ALPO. Just an opinion."

Oh no...not me. I never, ever hold myself out to be holier or morally superior than anyone else. That in no manner means that anyone is holier or morally superior than I am.

I'm just a man with a very active brain who puts it to good use, who has dumped all the hatred, selfishness, greed, and other traits of Republicanism that once was at the core of my persona.

I'm far from perfect and I am still a work in progress.

You can be sure that I'll keep you posted on my progression.

July 3, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted And if you would inform yourself to the facts of that credit, and as I pointed out a while ago, you will find that the credit also is valid up to earnings of $50,000 per year.

That may not be considered "moderate" in California or New York, but here, where we live, one can live pretty well. Not many people in this area make more than $962 a week.

Are you saying you pay your employees $962 a week? Because about a year ago you and Harp were having a discussion and you said the average wage of your employees was $11 plus dollars and hour and they could make up to $15 an hour with their bonus.

Al posted "Let's be clear about something. The Treasury Department and Obama has not delayed the requirements of the employer mandate. They have only stated that no employer required to provide coverage would be fined for not providing insurance for another year."

So they have DELAYED enforcing the employee mandate.

Another priceless moment as you keep embarrassing yourself by defending your Prophet Obama.

Al posted "Could you live on an average of $1,067 a month? That's about what they get. Yep...they live such an easy and lucrative life."

You forgot to mention all of the other assistance programs they could receive such as Food stamps,School Lunch, Public Housing, Medicaid, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program and other programs.

July 3, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: I've no doubt you'll keep me posted.

July 3, 2013 at 10:56 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Are you saying you pay your employees $962 a week?"

No. You have been harping that the tax credit only applies to those of lower and moderate income levels, per the IRS proclamation, and my point is, that in OUR area, that is not the case. Employers paying up to $962 a week, with fewer than 50 employees, are entitled to that credit.

In OUR area, that is not chump change.

"So they have DELAYED enforcing the employee mandate."

Yes, and that's more than a little different, not to mention completely within the IRS's authority to do so, than your original charge that the IRS and Obama were side-stepping Congress.

"Another priceless moment as you keep embarrassing yourself by defending your Prophet Obama."

He's now a prophet? Who knew?

"You forgot to mention all of the other assistance programs they could receive such as Food stamps,School Lunch, Public Housing, Medicaid, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program and other programs."

And all of those are Obama's doing?

You're firmly convinced that everything wrong in America is the fault of the President. If that's where you are, nothing I could point you to, would change your mind. So why should I even bother?

You, like so many others, are going to drive yourself nuts and die of a heart attack, worrying about things that you cannot change.

When it comes to the issue of public assistance, I am fully aware that there are people availing themselves to assistance programs that do not deserve one cent, but as a realist, I am willing to overlook those and to let God sort that out later with such people, so that one truly needy person does not receive the assistance they do deserve.

July 3, 2013 at 11:15 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted "Yes, and that's more than a little different, not to mention completely within the IRS's authority to do so, than your original charge that the IRS and Obama were side-stepping Congress."

Al, I pointed out in my post that neither Obama or the IRS do not have the authority to delay the employee mandate. Obama is making his violating the law and I have posted Section 4980H, of the bill at the bottom of this posts, which proves your are wrong.

Congress gave neither the IRS nor the president any authority to delay the imposition of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’s employer mandate. In the section of the law creating that mandate, Congress included several provisions indicating the mandate will take effect in 2014. In case those provisions were not clear enough, Section 4980H further clarifies:

(d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to months beginning after December 31, 2013.

July 3, 2013 at 11:36 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1, the IRS rules and regulations are very simple.

Any matter involving fines and/or penalties overseen and administrated by the IRS, can be suspended by the Secretary of the Treasury as well as agents empowered to impose such fines and/or penalties, at their sole discretion.

There is no Congressional mandate that the IRS MUST enforce the fines on employers who will not be providing health care insurance to their employees on January 1, 2014, or on anyone else for that matter.

Announcements of widespread suspension of fines by the Treasury is quite routine and quite legal.

July 4, 2013 at 12:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....Anyone who truly wants a job can find one. It may not be one they want, but any assertion that people who truly need to work are unable to find a job, is pure and unadulterated BS.

What a racist statement that is. You just said over 20% of the black population do not want a job. Your job availability contention is the BS.

July 4, 2013 at 1:23 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said......

There is no Congressional mandate that the IRS MUST enforce the fines on employers who will not be providing health care insurance to their employees on January 1, 2014, or on anyone else for that matter.

Now you are sounding like a double talking politician. Why did congress approve adding thousands more IRS agents? What is the IRS role? Enforcing the tax law is their job so no mandate specific to the no healthcare penalty that the SCOTUS creatively called a tax to avoid further irritating the administrative branch.

July 4, 2013 at 1:32 a.m.
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