published Saturday, March 8th, 2014

No consensus on evolution and other letters to the editors

No consensus on evolution

Many of your readers find evolution to be baloney. The evolutionists, not Bryan College's trustees, are the ones lost in the deep woods. Evolution -- the changing of one kind of animal over time into another kind of animal by mutation and natural selection (or any other means) -- has never been observed, not in the fossil record and not in animals today. Dog breeding and bacterial resistance to drugs are not evolution, by the way. Lab attempts to make evolution happen have all failed. Yet evolutionists fervently, even religiously, believe and pronounce that lizards turned into birds and rats changed into bears. But beliefs and pronouncements are not evidence of anything. Nor is a statement of "consensus" among scientists. Evolution is simply a vast belief system, on a level with reincarnation. Nobody has ever observed a spirit in an animal or plant, to our knowledge, but belief systems don't require supporting evidence. Sadly, science educators treat evolution as a sacred cow. For them, it cannot be much criticized or allowed to fail. Students should always demand evidence from them, and then hopefully this charade will stop. Bryan's position is consistent with the evidence, as well as Genesis. Bravo to the trustees.

RICK JAHN, Signal Mountain

Vote for Fleenor on May 6

I would like to voice my support for Pam McNutt Fleenor for Hamilton County Chancery Court judge in the Republican May 6 primary election. I have known Pam since high school and can attest to her dedication and moral compass. Pam has always been a person who possesses a warm, caring attitude toward people and has a deep love of her community and the need to make it a better place for all. Her passion for fairness and dignity for everyone will benefit the citizens of Hamilton County greatly. Pam strives for excellence in everything she does, and she earned many accolades throughout high school, college and law school. Pam is admired by all who know her, not only for her kind, compassionate spirit, but for her love and knowledge of justice. Hamilton County needs strong leadership, and Pam is definitely the one for the job.


Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
kkemerait said...

Dear Rick

Yes it has been and is being observed a simple Google search will give you many references of observed speciation.

It seems that you have no valid idea of what evolutionary theory even says, but instead you spout the same "straw man" definitions that AIG and CARM have been using (incorrectly I might add) for years.

Evolution: The occurrence of heritable changes in the frequency of alleles in the gene pool of a population over time.

Some Major Mechanisms by which it occurs:

Natural Selection, Gene Flow, Mutations and Genetic Drift

Every animal is a transitional species between what preceded it and what will follow it .. humans included. We can confirm it both morphologically as well as through genetics (something unavailable to Darwin, but which confirms evolution's predictions)

Students should demand evidence, but unlike you, they should recognize it and acknowledge it when it is presented and not simply cling to religious dogma.

March 8, 2014 at 2:19 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Public consensus and scientific consensus are not the same thing. The public believes a lot of silly stuff.

March 8, 2014 at 7:04 a.m.
LibDem said...

"Bryan's position is consistent with the evidence, as well as Genesis."

Lab class at Bryan must be a barrel of monkeys.

March 8, 2014 at 7:20 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"But beliefs and pronouncements are not evidence of anything...Bryan's position is consistent with the evidence, as well as Genesis."

So Bryan's position is based on religious "beliefs" (which Rick applauds), yet earlier Rick says "beliefs are not evidence of anything"? Well, that seals it for me.

March 8, 2014 at 7:37 a.m.
conservative said...

God job RICK JAHN, Signal Mountain.

You dismantled the heathen religion of evolution in such a short space.

March 8, 2014 at 8:04 a.m.
LibDem said...

Speaking of monkeys...

March 8, 2014 at 8:06 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You dismantled the heathen religion of evolution in such a short space.

He should go collect his Nobel Prize. Shifting a scientific paradigm is HUGE. Who'd thought we had such talent in Chattanooga?

March 8, 2014 at 8:06 a.m.
conservative said...

Evolution - The get rid of God religion whereby nobody times nothing became everything. The faith of Atheists.

March 8, 2014 at 8:18 a.m.
moon4kat said...

According to "conservative," knowledge, logic, science, and common sense result in atheism. That seems to be the position religious fanatics are adopting, leaving themselves (and their children) in a dark corner of ignorance. Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution.

March 8, 2014 at 9:20 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Conservative - People have been getting rid of gods for thousands of years. I do rather miss Zeus, although he seemed a little temperamental at times. Kinda like the christian god.

March 8, 2014 at 9:27 a.m.
kkemerait said...

Conservative, you say the same thing each and every time ... and I didn't think it was possible to sound more ignorant than you did the first time you said it...guess I was wrong.

March 8, 2014 at 9:29 a.m.
librul said...

Good grief, Rick. People who know you as an intelligent, educated person must be reeling. Such idiocy coming from your pen is, honestly, shocking. The new Cosmos series starting tomorrow night, will hopefully recapture many minds, particularly among the young, which have been led into the wilderness by the rantings of pseudo-scientific frauds and outright liars waving their holey babbles. Hope you can get back on track and escape the control of whatever demons have invaded your mind.

March 8, 2014 at 9:38 a.m.
conservative said...

"Horizontal variations" (e.g., the different varieties of dogs) are not real evolution, of course, nor are "mutations," which are always either neutral or harmful, as far as all known mutations are concerned. A process which has never been observed to occur, in all human history, should not be called scientific. Dr. Henry Morris Ph.D.

March 8, 2014 at 9:39 a.m.
conservative said...

Scripture, God's word, tells us that He created man and woman on His 6th day ( a 24 hour day) of creation. He created them fully grown, thus there was NO evolution involved, NONE!

No Atheist/evolutionist has ever proved nor ever will prove otherwise.

March 8, 2014 at 10:35 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Henry Morris?


Next you'll quote Duane Gish. Or Ray "Banana Man" Comfort.

March 8, 2014 at 10:37 a.m.
librul said...

Let's see Conman, the "process" of tree growth is difficult for a man to observe. A female pine cone will release its seeds to fall to the ground forgotten. The lucky ones among those seeds sprout and use the nutty nutrients to send up a sprout green with chlorophyll, and send down a taproot. The leaf, using the miraculous but unseen "process" of photosynthesis, takes unseen carbon dioxide from the air, unseen moisture and mineral nutrients from the soil captured by the root and, in the unseen recesses of unseen specialized cells called Chloroplasts, use sunlight to produce unseen carbohydrates (sugars) that provide food and energy for the plant to grow.

Some of the largest and oldest living things on earth are trees whose growth was certainly not observed by man. I'm just curious, do you deny that these organisms grew from a seed, inch by inch, over thousands of years utilizing photosynthesis because the process that we know from studies of living plants today is logically judged to be the same one they used? Or do you believe that your god sneezed and they sprang into instantaneous existence despite their possession of annual growth rings which CAN be observed and counted to reveal their age? Bristlecone pines atop craggy cliffs and Giant Redwoods on the seacoasts of California and Chile are different species which live in distinct habitats chosen through millions of years of adaptation and differentiation from the coniferous plants we know from the fossil record. To say man has never "observed" evolution is to display ignorance of the process on such a grand scale and to deny the growth of human knowledge from science and free inquiry on everything around us is just pathetic.

Many were persecuted and murdered by religionists for advancing knowledge that helped humanity escape the dungeon of the dark ages when religion ruled the world. Had they not succeeded, a sneezing god might be considered the origin of all things and we would still fear getting too close to the edge of the earth.

March 8, 2014 at 11:02 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Whatever outward manifestations of evolution have taken place the past 4.6 billion years it's clear that the mind is a much slower thing to evolve. In the likes of Rick Jahn and con-man and the many other troglodytes who still cling to their nonsensical creationist beliefs, they may have the outward form of homo sapiens but obviously the brains of either homo heidelbergensis or neanderthalensis. The poor clods have some catching up to do. Unfortunately it won't be in this lifetime.

March 8, 2014 at 11:12 a.m.
conservative said...

Science can only discover what God has created. I don't who or when it was discovered that man consists of the same elements found in the ground but it certainly wasn't thousands of years ago.

Scripture, God's word, tells us " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7" That was written over 3,000 years ago! The Periodic Table is less than 200 years old.

Now, how many centuries did the Atheists/heathen and the modern Atheists/heathen/evolutionists mock the notion that God created man from dirt? And even worse how many still do? Just a coincidence? Not a chance.

March 8, 2014 at 11:32 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Con, that is the exact same post you put up a couple of days ago. Don't you have anything new?

March 8, 2014 at 11:41 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Scripture, God's word, tells us " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7""

Conman, that reminds me of this bit of wisdom;

"Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind". Kansas, Dust in the Wind

March 8, 2014 at 11:56 a.m.
conservative said...

The Atheist/evolutionist will spend his whole life trying to get rid of God so that he may enjoy his sins without guilt.

The get rid of God faith.

A futile effort!

March 8, 2014 at 12:14 p.m.
librul said...

The religionist will spend his whole life trying to convince people that an ephemeral sprite, a wisp in the wind; an unquantifiable, unseen product of the primitive calculations of Bronze Age minds scrawled on Papyrus is the source of all we see - including ourselves.

The 'get rid of human inquiry to grow knowledge' faith.

A regressive, denialist, baseless paradigm with no evidence to support it....NONE.

A scourge on humanity.

A threat to our existence.

A dying curse.

March 8, 2014 at 1:16 p.m.
jesse said...

The second i hear the word"scripture" I'm GONE!!!

March 8, 2014 at 2:06 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"a dying curse." Indeed.

But progress towards enlightenment and freedom of the mind seems to be a very slow and uneven process, not a smooth and linear transition but a one-step-forward-two-steps-back sort of thing. For every stride, however great or small, that humankind has made towards lifting the veil of superstition and ignorance, there have been too many narrow minded, faith-based people still around who strive to take us backward instead of forward. And even though they have always failed in their battles with reason and freedom of thought in the past and will inevitably fail in the march to greater and more expansive freedoms of the human spirit in the future, they still manage to make it a very rocky and sometimes impassable road in the meantime.

Would that the curse of their nefarious presence die off a little more quickly so that we could get on with realizing the true potential of a more peaceful and prosperous life on earth, where no one has to live in poverty or squalor. I'm not a praying man but if I were I would pray for their "Rapture" to hurry up and get here and wisk them all away to their special paradise in their imaginary heaven...and leave the rest of us here on earth to ring in the dawn of the New Age of Reason and Freedom of Thought, unobstructed by the dimwitted hate-mongering religious nuts and naysayers.

March 8, 2014 at 2:20 p.m.
conservative said...

"I am determined to escape from design and a personal God at all costs." Charles Darwin

March 8, 2014 at 3:16 p.m.
Plato said...

Creation and evolution are two different (but related) topics. It is not inconsistent to believe that the universe rose from divine involvement, and still believe that once the universe was created that life evolved as has been documented in evolutionary science.

What some fundamentalist types get upset about with evolution is that it invalidates some of the ridiculous dogma, such as the earth being 6000 years old, man be created by dust, women from the rib of a man, etc. You don't have to believe in nonsense to believe there was (or could be) divine involvement in the creation of the universe and some of the greatest scientists do.

March 8, 2014 at 3:37 p.m.
conservative said...

"One morning I woke up and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this [evolution] stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it. That's quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. Either there was something wrong with me or there was something wrong with evolutionary theory. Naturally, I know there is nothing wrong with me ..."

"[The] question is: Can you tell me anything you KNOW about Evolution? Any one thing? Any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of Evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time, and eventually one person said, "I do know one thing - it ought not to be taught in high school"."

—Part of a keynote address given at the American Museum of Natural History by Dr Colin Patterson (Senior Paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History, London) in 1981. Unpublished transcript.

March 8, 2014 at 3:39 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, do you not think that maybe an advancement here or there could have been made in the field in the 33 years since Dr. Patterson gave that address?

March 8, 2014 at 3:46 p.m.
librul said...

The Talk Origins index to creationist claims shows why this debate has a long way to go toward resolution. What we need is a good film to illustrate how all of the claims of creationist wackaloons can be met with the strong, fact-based, cogent debunking they deserve.

March 8, 2014 at 4:24 p.m.
una61 said...

For anyone interested in real science, including Evolution, the new Cosmos series narrated by Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson begins tomorrow night on the Fox network. The original Cosmos series narrated by Carl Sagan is being broadcast, starting today.

March 8, 2014 at 5:06 p.m.
kkemerait said...

Dear Conservative ...

and here..not surprisingly .. is a portion of a letter FROM Dr Colin Patterson, explaining how your quote was taken out of context and misapplied.

".. The famous "keynote address" at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 was nothing of the sort. It was a talk to the "Systematics Discussion Group" in the Museum, an (extremely) informal group. I had been asked to talk to them on "Evolutionism and creationism"; fired up by a paper by Ernst Mayr published in Science just the week before. I gave a fairly rumbustious talk, arguing that the theory of evolution had done more harm than good to biological systematics (classification). Unknown to me, there was a creationist in the audience with a hidden tape recorder. So much the worse for me. But my talk was addressed to professional systematists, and concerned systematics, nothing else."

But don't let the truth kill a good story .. you keep on going, we enjoy the entertainment.

March 8, 2014 at 5:56 p.m.
conservative said...

Remember the "Piltdown Man" scam?

Some bones were found in Piltdown England in 1912. This discovery was deemed the "missing link" between mankind and animals by evolution "scientists" all over the world and these same "scientists" claimed the bones were about a half a million old!

These bones were placed in the London Museum of Natural History for the world to see the "proof" that man descended from animals. They thought they had gotten rid of the God of the Bible.

However, FORTY years later an effort was made to age the bones. It was "discovered" that the skull was human and the jaw was monkey. The teeth of the monkey had been filed to look like human teeth. Both the human and the monkey had recently died, but the bones had been treated with chemicals to make them appear old.

The evolutionist "scientist" were made monkeys of.

March 8, 2014 at 7:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

It was "discovered" by other scientists.

You think we haven't heard of "Piltdown"? That old canard was abandoned by Creationists decades ago. You need to catch up.

March 8, 2014 at 7:28 p.m.
una61 said...

Paleontologists exposed the Piltdown hoax in 1953. Charles Darwin exposed the Genesis hoax in 1859.

March 8, 2014 at 7:29 p.m.
kkemerait said...


Here's why I'll trust and respect a scientist any day of the week over you. When they are shown to be wrong (virtually always be other scientists I might add) they drop the issue and move on. They have intellectual integrity, they make mistakes, learn and improve their knowledge.

You simply ignore what you don't like, and worse you keep repeating things that with the intent to mislead and in spite of what you have been shown. In my mind, that's reprehensible. One can only hope you are not responsible for the education of any children and that you have no say in public policy.

March 8, 2014 at 8:04 p.m.
conservative said...

Back to the "Piltdown Man" scam.

For forty years the evolutionist kept the scam going that the "Piltdown Man" was the long hopeful missing link, that YOU evolved from an animal, that is, some kind of monkey. It amazes me that so many would be willing to believe there is a monkey in their family tree.

Anyway, prestigious universities around the world handed out over 500 (not a typo) Ph.D. degrees to students who wrote their doctoral dissertations on the fake " Piltdown Man" scam. Do you think they rescinded them, do you think they even cared?

March 9, 2014 at 4:40 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You don't know the first thing about science, con. Piltdown does not refute evolution.

March 9, 2014 at 6:50 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Not only does it not refute evolution, it actually strengthens the argument that science is more intent of ferreting out the truth than resting on its laurels or accepting any evidence at face value. Connie is not only grasping at straws, he's grasping at mere shadows of straws.

March 9, 2014 at 7:34 p.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »


Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.