Clay

Are you having a little fun at the expense of southern Republicans?I,until now,had never thought of my Republican friends as neo-nazis,but for the most part they sure don't hold blacks,Jews,Hispanics,or gays in high regard.As a matter of fact, they don't much like any ethnic group apart from their own.

So they have a lot in common with the Black Panthers? Why pick on this particular group of...uh-h...whatevers? We have lots of these nutcases running around, none of them particularly sane.

Oops...bit late. My last was addressed to Clay.

Having grown up in a rural part of the state that was 100% WASP, I was insulated from prejudices but also from diversities. I continually remind myself that about every person around me is basically the same- wanting a peaceful life and a decent job to make a reasonable living and opportunity for their kids and grand-kids.

Yeah, James W. Von Brunn pretty much fits the mold.

Attempted kidnapping of the federal reserve. Rantings about how Jews and Negros are ruining the world.

He denies the Holocaust and says the Jews are trying to destroy the white gene pool then storms into the Holocaust museum and opens fire.

Sanity has it's limits. Crazy is boundless.

nucanuck, I don't think this cartoon is about Southern Republicans, but I get your point.

In my experience talking to White Supremecists, they wear the word "racism" like a badge.

I will say I know a lot of Republicans and old Southern Democrats who are racists. They are very bigotted and very prejudiced. They say a lot of things like, "I'm not racist, BUT [insert racist statement here.]" But these people shun the idea that they are racist. They are sane enough to not want to be labelled.

On the other hand White Supremecy Groups cloak themselves in that label. It's what defines them.

Personally, I think the crazy ones are easier to combat, because they're so polarizing and don't integrate as easily into the mainstream.

nucanuck,I would have to disagree with you on labeling racism as one particular party. Most neo-nazi groups began in the midwest. And if you say it is the southern republicians who don't hold blacks,Jews,Hispanics,or gays in high regard what do you think of the black panters who are equally if not worse then any white supremacy or neo-nazi group out. Statistically black communities have more violence and hate than any other community. My point is you cant label just one group. James von Brunn did fit a certain profile but so did the black man who went into a army recruiting center and killed a soldier but people are not calling him racist.

Snooksie, don't forget about the grandfather of all white supremacist groups- the Ku Klux Klan. that was, by most accounts, founded right here in Tennessee.

Toonfan, I know it was started here but I am speaking of the now popular neo-nazis' which have lots of different names and they do a march in Washington DC each year. While I am sure there are members who live around here you find more of them in rural midwest. Ku Klux Klan is a thing of the past. Hate is not just toward blacks anymore its toward everyone if you are different than a particular race or group. That includes whites, blacks, jews, mixicians, muslims, christians, I could go on and on but racism is all around us and I am tired of it being just labeled white against blacks when it is not that at all.

Snooksie

I agree with you,prejudice is widespread.I was just having fun with the Republican thing because they are struggling with their identity,unsuccessfully,so far.At this point the Republican core constituency might be described as old white southern men with ethnic preduduces.The Republican tent will widen,but in the meantime...

You really do exhibit quiet a bit of restraint and even ascesis here, Clay.

I would be curious to know why you left out the confederate flag cap.

Certainly in a TN based paper that conjunction of incident and detail would have prompted a 'conversation,' right?

I am aware that Clay's image is a generalized reference to a specific sort hater, rather than a specific rendering of our particular hateful nut of the moment.

By the way, were the reports of the csa emblem on the shooter's cap true? I would have that detail tested. It is worthy of discussion and reckoning if true, but worthless if misinformation.

Why think that one person of a race, no matter how despicable his actions, reflect the rest of the race.

Are WE going to all despise ourselves as whites because "von Brunn" was an extreme racist?

We tend to take the outer features as a collected group and blame the actions of one man for the behaviour of an entire race!

The other races do that as well!

You're right about most neo-Nazi groups being located in the west (especially Idaho, for some reason), but don't discount their connection to the Klan.

Although their ranks have been decimated by a decline in support and a general unwillingness to don their embarrassing pointy-headed uniform, the Ku Klux Klan is still around.

Rolando's comparison of the Black Panthers to the neo-Nazis is way off base, though, and a bit disturbing. The Panthers were founded in Oakland to protect black neighborhoods from both the crime that the police were ignoring, and the police itself.

Their slogan of 'black power' was a cry out to a community that had no power- political, economic or otherwise. When neo-Nazis cry out for 'white power' it's vastly different in tone and intent. It's not the cry of a group that has been underrepresented, under-served, or singled out for persecution. It is a call for violence.

The Panthers are not known to roam the streets looking for people to beat and kill, while white supremacists are commonly known to do so. The Panthers probably do have a certain resentment of whites as a reaction to their own persecution as African-Americans, but tell me, what history of persecution is white racism based?

The persecution of blacks in America is not a reaction to their ill-treatment of whites. No, it was a reaction to blacks aspiring to be treated as equals to whites. That was a thought that infuriated and frightened whites in the south, and one that has spawned a generation of Ku Klux Klan imitators.

Comparing white racism and black racism is all about cause and effect. Black folks resent white folks because of the historical mistreatment they have experienced (after all, our relationship did start on a slave ship). I can, at least, understand that. But what is the cause that inspires that inspires white racism (besides a desperate attempt to elevate one class above another)?

Now, I'm not making excuses for anyones hatred or bigotry. All I'm saying, is that sometimes it makes more sense than other times. I can't say I dislike you because of your looks. That makes no sense to me. I can say, I dislike you because you beat me, you insulted me, or you stole from me. It's cause and effect.

But OllieH, the black screaming racism were not slaves. They didnt experience what the ancestors did so they only know what history tells them. What white people did then was wrong and how blacks were treated was wrong but what I was saying earlier was there are blacks who are racist against whites and you cant deny that just like there are still white people out there who are racist against blacks. I dont think that will ever change. I dont think its right but it will still never change.
What you said about the black panthers may have been true then but they are not the same. They do go out in the streets and have riots. Look at what they didnt during the election. They do at lot me than you think.
I am just saying that the tables are turning. When a white commits a hate crime against blacks its called racism but if a black commiting a hate crime against a white nothing is said about it. For example...the black man who recently killed a white army soldier at a army recruiting office. If blacks what equal rights than so do whites. Blacks should be treated the same and not allowed to use the racist card if white people cant. Fair is fair but not in society for some reason.

African Americans, indigenous Americans and Mexicans, Orientals, garment factory children and even my sharecropping white great grandparents have lived from poor to terrible conditions. Our history has not always been kind- but it is history to hopefully not repeated. We need to put all this in the past and take a personal oath that our lives will not be dictated by our prejudicial ancestors.

Just when I gain hope that there are a class of reasonable, thinking people in this area...i read a post like Snooksie's and I am crushed again. There is a huge difference between racism and predjudice. We all have our own personal predjudices and have every right to them. I prefer Diet Coke to Pepsi, that is a predjudice. I dont care for stupid people, that is my personal predjudice. However, racism is a systematic opression of a people based on their ethnicity. That is not acceptable. While you may not like black folk, they certainly have not oppressed you. While the current generation of ethnically diverse people may not have suffered at the hands of the plantation overseer, things are certainly not equal by any stretch of the imagination. There is still a great deal of racism and injustice right here, every day. The fact that you have to justify the white folk hate crime is ok cuz black folk do it to is not a valid argument at all. Wrong is wrong...justifying wrong is wrong. It's not about what our ancestors did...its about what happens here every single day...

I just think that some of you guys are way off base. Neo-Nazism is a movement of "insanely racist" people. I don't think that Clay was tweaking either Republicans or Southerners with this one. Most Neo-Nazi movements are based out of California, and it is based on a ridiculous superiority opinion of people who just aren't reasonable (much like their hero Adolf Hitler). No one should read more into this than is stated. Their are some really hard core racist outside of the south as well, so I don't think their is any reason to single out whites in this region.

And while we're at it, can we give whites in 2009 a little credit for breaking away from racial solidarity (unlike the African-American community), and voting in the first Black President. That result would not have been possible if this country (mostly of European descent) still saw everything in black and white. Nazi's are insane, and modern day Black Panthers are just as delusional because they still see life through a racial prism. I imagine that it's a sad existence for both groups. They're missing out on so much.

Champ1...I agree with you fully. I think people are misunderstanding my posts. I am by no means a racist. I believe everyone should have equal rights. I dont agree with either group whether it be the Neo-nazis or the black panters and I agree with what you have said. All I was stating is how I have been preceiving things in observations such as the media. Like I said before I wish equal rights for everyone and for everyone to have a fair share I just feel that a lot of people both black and white are still living in the past when they should be looking into the future and how they can make America prosper to the best of it abilities.

Curiously enough, no one has mentioned the good Reverend Wright and his church. Can anyone say "racist personified" or maybe "the essence of bigot"?

Let's change the T-Shirt up there to show an African flag and a raging panther instead of a swastika, change the skin tone a bit, and THEN watch the shouts of outrage... No difference; racists and hatemongers, all.

Or change it to a picture of the Koran, wrap a cloth around his head, put a beard on him and a scimitar in his hand, and have him shout "Allah Akabar [or whatever]. Death to Infidels!" That one would probably get nods of approval from a few here and silence from most.

Point is, picking out one particular group of [white] people for ridicule, however bad they may be and however politically correct it might be, is completely wrong and very agenda-based.

moonpie wrote,
"Yeah, James W. Von Brunn pretty much fits the mold."

I don't know. At 88 he's more like a paleo-nazi. ;)
Or maybe he's the real thing, left over from the 30's-40's.

Lots of good points made. The first post got me riled up this morning, as some will use any occasion to bash those they hate, so I just let it roll and enjoyed the show.

Clay,
Your toon hit it on the head, and Rolando@4:43 said it. All of these types of extremists are INSANE, and should not be used to paint any group/race as evil.

Thanks to all.

What Rolando and Scotty said - exactly correct.

Cute hairdo, Clay! I just noticed. C:-)

ACORN has a whole lot of nuts.

Try to stay on point, Oz.

As for singling out neo-Nazis, well, that is the group to which the Holocaust Museum gunman belonged, rolando. Why would you complain about a cartoon depicting that group's psychology?

There are bigots everywhere. Of that, there is no doubt. But few groups make racist hatred the main focus of their existence. The Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan and white supremacists do. The Black Panthers do not. To equate these Nazis to the Panthers is like comparing rotten apples to oranges.

The insistence on making such a correlation, is more than a little bit disturbing.

Toonfan, I am curious how you can say that the black panters do not. They fit right in there with the other groups. This happened during the election:Charges Against 'New Black Panthers' Dropped by Obama Justice Dept.
Three men were accused of trying to threaten voters and block poll and campaign workers by the threat of force -- one even brandishing what prosecutors call a deadly weapon.
Black panthers hate just as much and love the violence as much as all these other groups so they are no different and should not be defended by anyone. All members of these parties should be arrested and put it prison.

"few groups make racist hatred the main focus of their existence" I think not. To see a microcosm of the hate groups, you need look no further than the prison population. An endless variety of groups (gangs) who hate, and are willing to kill, each other for a variety of stupid reasons including race and religion. It is certainly NOT restricted to so-called "white supremacist" groups.

Yeah, I remember that case. Like I said, bigotry is everywhere. Although the deadly weapon you mentioned was a nightstick or baton, it still is intimidation,- no doubt about it. But I still maintain the Panthers official positions are not ones that preach hate and racism. White supremacists, however, revel in their hatred.

So, you found one example of the Panthers acting like thugs and racists.

Here are just a few stories about white supremacists doing the same, or worse:

June 10, 2009- Five members of a Ku Klux Klan-affiliated gang attack four people under a bridge while yelling anti-gay and anti-Asian slurs.

May 27, 2009- White supremacist Hardy Lloyd, who was acquitted of murdering his girlfriend in 2004, was arrested for violating the terms of his probation after praising the murder of police officers.

May 25, 2009- Due in part to threats from a loose collection of tax protesters and white supremacists – more judges and prosecutors are adopting security measures, carrying weapons and seeking protection from U.S. marshals.

May 16, 2009- A few weeks before he opened fire on shoppers in Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square in 2007, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic stated he did not like black people and bragged about being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

April 22, 2009- Eight members of the Inland Empire Skinheads pleaded not guilty to drug dealing, home invasions, assault-for-hire and street terrorism the same day that Child Protective Services took custody of two infants born to gang members who induced labor on Adolf Hitler’s birthday.

April 13, 2009- William Mark Mize, ex-leader of the National Vastilian Aryan Party, is set to be put to death by lethal injection for the 1994 murder.

April 5, 2009- The suspect in the shooting deaths of three Pittsburgh police officers, Richard Andrew Poplawski, 22, posted to the racist website forum and subscribed to anti-Semitic, anti-government extremist conspiracy theories.

February 2, 2009- Self-proclaimed white power skinhead Walter Anthony Dille Jr., 40, was convicted of randomly murdering a black woman he encountered in a movie theater parking lot in 2005.

January 22, 2009- A white supremacist who allegedly killed two Cape Verde immigrants and raped and shot a third.

January 2, 2009- White supremacist gang members were arrested in connection with the November beating of a 19-year-old Latino that inflicted permanent brain damage.

January 1, 2009- For the third time in a year, the Gan Camarillo Preschool was defaced with swastikas and “White Power” graffiti.

October 21, 2008- A self-proclaimed white-supremacist was indicted by a federal grand jury in Chicago for allegedly soliciting injury to the foreman of a federal trial jury in Chicago that convicted another white-supremacist.

Oh well, I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

The shooter of our recruiter was a black Muslim, toonfan, and commented that Allah made him do it [or something]. That covers three distinct groups - race, religion, and mental health - none of which you made mention.

Those topics are completely appropriate for this thread and deal with prejudice/bigotry/whatever and what have you in its various guises.

Furthermore, this thread and this forum does NOT belong to you nor do you control where it goes. Just because you happen to dislike the direction it takes and maybe steps on your toes does NOT change that. The best you can do is whine to the sysop and beg for removal of the post YOU consider offensive. We get enough orders and control of our lives from Dear Leader; we neither need nor accept your idea of proper content here.

You are out of line, sir or madam.

Oh yeah. Toonfan, I suggest you examine the Black Panthers a bit closer. Huey whats-his-name figured prominently. They could teach the KKK, the Skinheads, and white supremacists, et al how to do hate properly.

nucanuck,

Point on. It's called "identity politics" and not just southern Republicans. Paul Krugman wrote a piece about it:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05...

Hey, Jeremiah Wright fits this cartoon. Obviously he has a problem with Jews. And since the wise and wonderful O said Rev Wright was his spiritual mentor for 20 years, I wonder if he fits into this cartoon also?