Both groups are depicted as washing their hands of the respective recent murders, but the question is did their actions and rhetoric make them an accomplice? Both groups have strong beliefs against certain laws, however the one group has a moral belief that life is more important than the law.

Well, one group at least attempts to preserve life at it's inception, albeit with little or no concern after the fact.

The other attempts to preserve a race for generations.

I might be more inclined to support the efforts of those who want to abolish abortion if they were as concerned for the life of all people, regardless of age. Life most certainly does evolve beyond the womb and it takes a great deal of expense and nurturing to assure that a child makes it to adulthood. It's not as if we are born and are able to take care of ourselves. It is an 18 year commitment and even in this country many people are not prepared for it.

I've never read a word in print by any anti-abortionist who has traveled to Africa and witnessed firsthand what happens to children who are born into the most dire of circumstances, with no hope, no food, and no future awaiting them if they happen to survive.

People who demand that a fetus be downloaded no matter the cost or circumstance, are almost never offering to assume the responsibilities and/or costs associated with preserving that life once it is born. Their demand is that any woman who becomes pregnant has a responsibility to deliver that child, even if no alternatives are available to the mother.

Those who take their anti-abortion beliefs to an extreme by taking the life of someone whom they perceive to be doing the same, are most certainly acting in contradiction of their beliefs. I doubt that they would ever see the glaring error in their thought processes, because after all, if they save a life by taking another, it erases their own sin(s)...right?

If it were remotely possible to place every unplanned birth into the hands of a loving family, then I might be inclined to to side with those opposed to abortion, but even Operation Rescue's own agency can only handle a case load of 10-12 at any given time. It's a hard morsel to swallow the fact that there are simply as many unplanned births of babies as there are cats and dogs, and nowhere near enough loving homes to place them in.

I don't see any evidence that there are donors lined up to foot the costs of adoption for those who could afford to raise the child but not the immediate associated legal fees that come with adopting a child.

And on and on and on....the abortion debate will never end, and neither will the talking points that can forever be raised.

Preserving race is a far easier task to address and there's little to debate to be offered on that subject. But I'll throw a point in anyway. The more of us who cross racial lines to procreate, the better the chance that one day there will be a dilution of all races, thus achieving some sense of equality, at least racially.

I've got too much on my plate to hate people because they look different from myself. I like everyone until they personally give me a good reason not to.

I'm a mutt and proud of it.

alprova

Thank you for a very thoughtful post!We are all enriched by the deep analytical thoughts of others.

Michelle Malkin was right about one thing, "...a million Christians pulled the trigger that killed Dr. Tiller."

95% of the women seeking an abortion had a choice. The choice was leaving their clothes on or taking them off. Birth control is nothing new. If you are not mature enough to practice birth control, you should not be having sex in the first place. If you built a house and did not like the way it turned out, would you tear it down?

I cannot argue guns and abortions today--or even dogs in bars or poop and baggy trousers in parks.

We are working the garden and tending the chooks, and most terrifically we have a box turtle laying eggs right outside the farmhouse.

But I marveled at alprova's last note, which echoed a maxim of my mother's from some time back.

When we are grandparents and look about us to see our beautiful grandbabies scrambling about in every color and form and culture, we will finally have learned what we need to know to live together on this earth.

Those who put up creed or fence against that day--peace upon their houses and grandchildren--and we will hope that you can come to understand love in a better way.

Oz- What about a woman that truly wants to have children, is elated by the prospects of motherhood, but then discovers that the pregnancy threatens her own life? Should she be forced to give birth?

As you implied, Oz, no birth control is guaranteed, except for abstinence. To me, it's unrealistic to expect that anyone will abstain from sex altogether. All we can hope for is that everyone does so responsibly.

So, use a condom. Well, a male condom has a 14% failure rate (a female condom has a 21% failure rate). Maybe, the woman could use a diaphragm. Oops, that has a 20% failure rate. A contraceptive sponge has a 20% failure rate, an IUD has a 2% failure rate, and birth control pills fail to prevent pregnancy 5% of the time. Hell, even a vasectomy in the male will fail on occasion.

So, even when someone succumbs to their natural hormonal urges, but takes all the responsible steps to avoid fertilization, there is still a very real chance that the woman will get pregnant. At that point, (barring a morning after pill) abortion is the only remaining option to avoid reproduction.

To restrict that measure just seems to be more punitive than practical.

Clay Bennett’s carton editorials are progressive for this newspaper. I am truly surprised they even print these. They must be experiencing a period of enlightenment.

The anti abortion movement offers no viable alternative to providing for the children that are currently being aborted. The State of Tennessee has many children, especially disabled that need loving homes. Most are not adopted.

If a teenager or crime victim wishes to terminate a pregnancy, then they should be allowed to do so without the interference of zealots trying to force their belief system on others. These groups’ activities assume that everyone has their same belief system. They will fail, because trying to control free will is an exercise in futility.

The other group apparently believes that their white skin, tattoos, and their popularly among prison inmates makes them superior. If they are so superior, why are most of their members in prison?

I know this is deadly serious...so why am I still laughing?

OllieH....Oz- What about a woman that truly wants to have children, is elated by the prospects of motherhood, but then discovers that the pregnancy threatens her own life? Should she be forced to give birth?..... 21 years ago, me and my wife were put in this position. We prayerfully put the situation in God's hands and everything went well in the end. It wasn't easy at times but our faith pulled us through. Every situation is different but I cannot condone abortion as a method of birth control. I only know one lady that has had an abortion. The guilt and depression, she has lived with has been almost unbearable for her. Abortion is more than a surgical procedure. The effects can last a lifetime.

Oz, I'm glad that everything worked out for the best with your situation to forgo an abortion, and I'm sorry your friend is wracked with guilt from her decision to have one, but not all situations fall into those two categories.

Many decisions we make in life have a lasting effect, but that doesn't mean those decisions should be taken out of our hands. Even decisions we know are right can leave you with guilt and regret. In the long run, it's not your place to tell anyone what medical choices they should make. That decision should be left to those involved.

What do ya know... more bile spewing from the pen of Clay Bennett. You liberals are exactly what is WRONG with America. You scream and yell and fire people over intolerance yet when some LONE NUTCASE blows an abortion doctor away and some stupid old nazi kills someone you link all rightwingers to those despots. You are hypocrites! Every liberal in this country is a rotten hypocrite! Pro Lifers LOVE LIFE! True Pro-Lifers want to see NO ONE killed. That's the meaning of being PRO LIFE! No one should have the right to take what GOD gave. Liberals need to start practicing what they preach and quit being intolerant of the right because a lone fool took a life.

Excellent abortion editorial by a Tennessee Tech student.

http://media.www.tntechoracle.com/media/...

jabark82, People that try to force their belief system on others are danagerous zealots. In the regilious belief system and circumstances cited, you want to decide what is right for everyone else.

I have to ask, just what makes you think that I share your belief or value system, and what gives you the superior knowledge to decide what is me and eveyone else.

You be what you want to be Pro Life, fine, but do not try to force you belief system on others.

Hypocrisy is not limited to just liberals. And I'm rather certain that religious zealots came to define the word. I also find it laughable that you would consider liberals to be intolerant to any degree. Liberals are fighting for the freedom to be able answer to God for their own decisions, even if he or she finds out they made bad ones.

Dr. Tiller's murder was not the act of a "lone nut case." People who work within the medical profession who bravely provide services up to and including a physical abortion, deal with a bunch of nut cases every day they go to work. They deal with them every day when they leave work. They are stalked. Their names, addresses and even phone numbers are posted online. They live in fear every day of their lives that another of the nut cases will decide to cross that line and snuff their life out in the name of God.

But I'm sure you probably think that all of that is justifiable and should be done to intimidate people into abandoning their principles, because these people are doing something that you consider to be morally reprehensible.

To state that "liberals need to quit being intolerant of the right because a lone fool took a life," is a rather profound observation. What planet are you from? They are more than content to allow you to live your life as you please, worship the deity of your choice, and all they want is to be allowed to do the same.

The "intolerance" if you must use that word, is nothing new or surprising. You see, it is not enough for some people who consider themselves morally superior to go about their daily lives in the quest of maintaining their own souls. In addition to claiming that superior status, some feel the need to do whatever they can to force others to conform live their lives as they do, even when the overture is most unwelcome and illegal in many cases.

It's their life, their body, and their decision to make. Why do some people find it so hard to understand that? Each of us is responsible for our own souls.

Since you decided to bring God into this debate, permit me to add a thought of my own on the subject. God gave us all the right and ability to do our own thinking. That is why we have a brain. We are allowed and encouraged to make our own choices throughout our lives. And yes, we are even allowed to make poor choices too.

It really is becoming hard to separate religious zealots into separate classes these days. The only difference seems to be how many bodies are in a pile upon the attempt to escalate a protest into action.

Saying all conservatives (religious zealots) support stalking, harassment, and murder of those involved with abortion is like saying all liberals supported the bombings by William Ayers.

The little fact that those who lean to the left do not want to own up to, is that leftist rhetoric, ideas, and actions over the last 100 years have lead to 100+ million deaths.

A few here have tried to imply that perhaps anti-abortion supporters think they are morally superior to pro-choice supporters.

I personally do not feel very many "superior morality" moments in my life.

When I read about a non-threatening person being killed, it is not too much of a stretch to buy into the idea that I am morally enlightened as compared to the killer.

The part the left does not like, is that I consider the abortion doctor, the museum guard, the soldiers at a recruiting station, and a human fetus, to all be equally human. As such, their lives have equal value.

I cannot move into the position of negating the value of any innocent human life. That way lies madness. Anyone who has studied history, at all, knows this.

As for pushing values onto other people, if one does not believe that killing an innocent human is wrong, one might be advised to really consider their own place in the world, and how secure they would be if everyone adopted the same lack of values.

When America was young, she was soiled by the morally bankrupt practice of slavery. We fixed that. I hope that, in the future, abortion will be seen as the morally bankrupt practice that it is, and someone will write, We fixed that.

Very clever Clay, you never fail to stimulate thought (and comment) on an issue.

"Oz, I'm glad that everything worked out for the best with your situation to forgo an abortion, and I'm sorry your friend is wracked with guilt from her decision to have one, but not all situations fall into those two categories.

Many decisions we make in life have a lasting effect, but that doesn't mean those decisions should be taken out of our hands. Even decisions we know are right can leave you with guilt and regret. In the long run, it's not your place to tell anyone what medical choices they should make. That decision should be left to those involved."

And, in addition, you cannot assume that all abortions are a result of someone being irresponsible. Sometimes they are the result of a woman being attacked and forced to have sex against her will - it's called rape and it happens everyday.
Until you know what it feels like to be in that situation, you have no soapbox to stand on.

So, get off it!

The debate around abortion has been all or nothing. As our laws not stand its available on demand, except for late terms which are more restrictive. Somewhere in between is a moral and logical solution. Recognize that abortion is a conflict between the mother and unborn child. As with all conflicts a court should decide the matter, not a medical doctor. The court obviously would have to be a special one much like juvenile court that could handle all matters of the issues.

Everyone wants to talk about women's rights. They one question they fail to ask: what about the babies' right to life? If a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is charged with 2 counts of murder, one for the woman and one for the child. So how can you not charge a woman who aborts a child with murder? Either you recognize the child as a living being or you don't. You cannot recognize it as living just when it suits you, like in situations with murder to extend the sentence.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that most liberals are so against using animals to test different kinds of drugs, perfume, and all sorts of other things. They say that the animals are innocent and have the same rights as we do. These people are also the ones that are pro-choice. This is putting the value of an animal's life above that of a human. That is 100% ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I love animals, but I think that a human life is way more important than an animal's life.

jaw822 points out-"If a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is charged with 2 counts of murder, one for the woman and one for the child. So how can you not charge a woman who aborts a child with murder? "

Because in one case, you have someone making a decision about their own life and their own body. In the other case, the mother did not make the decision, the assailant did.

As for animal research, you're talking about a creature with a fully developed central nervous system and cerebral cortex. It's a animal that experiences pain, so intentionally inflicting pain seems cruel. The cerebral cortex does not develop in a human fetus until 6 months into the gestation period. That's why choosing to have a third trimester abortion is so much more conditional in nature.

Mainstream anti-abortion groups have overwhelmingly condemned the shooting. Let's try reporting that.

The issue here is not whether or not the fetus experiences pain, toonfan. The issue is should a human being be able to take life away from a fetus. Whether or not you believe it is living does not matter because, to me, it is a potential life. It may live or it may not, but it deserves to have the experience of life. How is it fair to that child to be aborted because someone could not control themselves and decides they are not ready for a child. Actions have consequences and if you are not willing to accept the consequences, do not act upon your desires. Abortion should not be a type of birth control. In the extreme case that the woman's life is endangered, abortion is acceptable to me. Only in that situation though.

jaw822- you referred to liberals as pro-abortion. I voted for Obama and I am pro-life. I did vote for Bush twice only because he was pro-life, but then after 8 yrs we still have abortion and I was totally disappointed in all his other policies. Something ground-shaking will be required to overturn R vs W- not just another court appointment. That alone would not solve the abortion issue anyway. A public awakening that a fetus is a living human being would go a long way.

ctfpfan08....And, in addition, you cannot assume that all abortions are a result of someone being irresponsible. Sometimes they are the result of a woman being attacked and forced to have sex against her will - it's called rape and it happens everyday.

Until you know what it feels like to be in that situation, you have no soapbox to stand on.

So, get off it!

I expressed an opinion on why 95% of women seek an abortion. Did I even comment on rape or incest? No. I didn't say I would support it or be against it. So quit putting words my mouth.

Back in an era where abortion was frowned upon much more than it is today by the general public, in the era when it was illegal:

1) orphanages were a lot more full because homes were not found,
2) children fell between the cracks,
3) many more women died from unsafe illegal abortions. If they had children, these were left motherless.

If all of this occurred in an era where abortion was less acceptable... then what makes anyone think things would be better than that if we made abortion illegal again?

Early-term abortions have always been performed competently and safely in hospitals/clinics; doctors just wrote them off as a D&C. Happened more often then thought.

Ever notice how the two sides here have been referred to as "anti-abortion" and "pro-choice"? A not-so-subtle form of discrimination, that.

Either they are both pro-something or they are anti-something; the first thing one does is give the enemy a nasty or prejudice-inducing label -- Jap, Kraut, raghead...the list is endless but you get the idea.

So how about not playing little games of one-upmanship and address the issue? For starters, define exactly when a fetus becomes a human being for purposes of law; forget "upon conception"...too many legal issues.

Bear in mind TWO people are involved in every pregnancy yet pro-choicers ALWAYS ignore the father's wishes...that fetus/whatever is just as much his as the mother's by blood and DNA. What if he wants it and she doesn't, or vice-versa?

toonfan --

Killing a pregnant woman is two murders IYO.

Your opinion of a doctor/nurse team who leaves an abortion-survivor baby alone to die in a hospital storage room or whatever? Murderer or no?

If different from the mother killer, why? Remember, once born the fetus becomes a human being living separate from the mother...

These are not simple black/white issues...

I keep writing and deleting comments on this cartoon, endlessly!

It is 2 days since the cartoon appeared, and I still haven't been able to get together a coherent statement.

I'll try again. Nope! It didn't work!

I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that I am not smart enough to offer a solution to the problem of persons whose rhetoric and actions are so compartmentalized.

Most all of you have offered an intelligent and thoughtful response, and perhaps in a week or so, I will think of something pertinent to add. This is a lot to digest!

Thanks, Clay!

Clara- if all we got were smart people making intelligent comments here, the results would be boring. Personal and arguable ideas and opinions are what makes these fun and interesting.

Jump in there and stir up the pot, Clara.

Before this cartoon folds, I guess I can add an observation.

On the right, we have a man who hates. He killed 2 birds with one blast. A black man, and put a lot of fear in the hearts of the other attendees who might be of any race. There was hatred toward everything, and everybody.

He is shot by a guard of unknown racial backgraound, too me, at least. and is thought to be able to survive and face the consequences.

Perhaps he is gloating, if conscious. What he has accomplished is putting the museum in a position of having to make assurances that future visitors of all races will be guarded in case another mentally obsessed hate-filled individual attempts the same thing...obstensibly to get the museum closed so that the memory of the horrors of the Holocaust will be obliterated.

On the left is a vigilante who seeks his own form of justice, not wanting to wait for the powers that be to legislate the Doctor's guilt or innocence. He decided to play God. I remember a title of a book which made an impression on me. "Leaave her to God." Unfortunately, neither one of these men wanted to leave the situation to whatever God they worshipped, if any.

Well, I tried!

I wonder what led both of these men into the course they took. I would like to hear the evaluation by a psychiatrist, not necessarily the one that "observed" the water boarding.

I'm having a terrible time with a slowed down computer.

It takes it about 10 minutes to download the front page of the Times Express, and then 5 to 10 minutes to reach the next page. In between it blanks out and takes another 5-10 minutes to bring up the last page again. When I post a comment, it takes another 5-10 minutes to get to the next page, or it stops printing for a while. It is slow on other sites too, but not as badly. My time for previewing before postingis 11:08 pm. I wonder what time it will get through the preview and actual posting. I started this at 10:30 or thereabouts.

Oz, I was using your quote as an example, not calling YOU out specifically.

What I meant was, Until you know what it's like to be in the situation of having an unwanted pregnancy, regardless of how it happened, you can't know what it's like or the difficulty in having to make a decision. Therefore you can't truely talk about it like you do know.

This was directed at anyone who can't possibly know, not just you.