published Saturday, November 6th, 2010

Governance

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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blackwater48 said...

Hilarious!

Safe to assume many of our conservative contributors will fail to see the humor, but Tea Baggers are not really concerned with harmony.

Editorial cartoons often only generate reflective thoughts and political perspective.

This is all that PLUS 'double barrel shotgun blast of coffee through my nose' funny.

November 6, 2010 at 12:11 a.m.
acerigger said...

Hey tea party,, after The 8 Years Of The Bush/Cheney Disaster, Now You Get Mad?

You didn't get mad when Bush gave the rich over a 5 trillion dollars in tax breaks, and wiped out the middle class, while waging two wars that have cost over $800 million and counting, thus ensuring we would go deeper into debt to pay for them.

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate Energy policy and push us to invade Iraq.

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.

You didn't get mad when we invaded a country that posed no threat to us.

You didn't get mad when we spent over 800 billion (and counting) on said illegal war.

You didn't get mad when Bush borrowed more money from foreign sources than the previous 42 Presidents combined.

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars in cash just disappeared in Iraq.

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people illegally.

You didn't get mad when Bush embraced trade and outsourcing policies that shipped 6 million American jobs out of the country.

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.

You didn't get mad when Bush rang up 10 trillion dollars in combined budget and current account deficits.

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans, drown.

You didn't get mad with the worst 8 years of job creations in several decades.

You didn't get mad when over 200,000 US Citizens lost their lives because they had no health insurance to pay for needed medical care.

You didn't get mad when lack of oversight of the financial markets caused US Citizens to lose 12 trillion dollars in investments, retirement, and home values.

You finally got mad when a black man was elected President and decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.

November 6, 2010 at 12:25 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Oh, some of us can see the humor, even aimed at us. (As usual, change the labels and you change the cartoon: put CONSTITUTION on the music and LIBERALISM on the whistle. Have you liberals heard the vuvuzelas yet? Let freedom ring!)

Will President Obama and ex-speaker Pelosi harmonize with the Tea Party, or are they not really concerned with harmony?

Sorta like Joe Manchin (D)'s rifle shot through cap and trade in one of his W Va commercials?

Spending money I've earned on tax-paid projects I disagree with ain't the most Mozartean of harmony.

November 6, 2010 at 12:36 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "Spending money I've earned on tax-paid projects I disagree with ain't the most Mozartean of harmony."


No need to worry Andrew.

YOUR tax money was spent killing innocent people in Iraq & Afghanistan.

November 6, 2010 at 12:51 a.m.
SavartiTN said...

Best post that I've read in a long time, acerigger.

November 6, 2010 at 1:09 a.m.
acerigger said...

*

It's official: GOP leaders in the House and Senate have both confirmed that they will buck calls from the Tea Party and not back a ban on federal earmarks. Boner sez."tea who, what?" How's that tea-baggy thingy workin' out for ya, suckers? ROFLMAO!

November 6, 2010 at 1:17 a.m.
Francis said...

still stinging from the ass kicking on tuesday, huh, ace?

must have been frustrating to stand on the street corner and shout out all of that nonsense on your list, and wave it in people's faces as they they went on their merry way to vote to put a stop to obama and pelosi.

must be "mad" that they ignored all that and decided obama's vision sucks and american exceptionalism is not dead...as obama would have us believe.

must have stuck in your craw to see all those people singing to themselves.. on their way to throw water on pelosi....ding dong the witch is dead....she's gone where the goblins go..below, below,below..

clench that list you posted, ace..in your sweaty little hands..and grind your teeth all you want.....

it's over...the american people have had it with the over the top attacks on america, republicans, and conservatives since 2000....bush would beat obama if he ran against him today.......liberals will never dominate t he government again....

you want to see the future.....two words...marco rubio...

and others like him.

you still have harry reid, though...

November 6, 2010 at 3:35 a.m.
wallyworld said...

It will be truly interesting to see how these one-note nabobs transform this country into the land of the wealthy and their slaves, the gullible, naive masses, that believe borrowing money to give billions more to their rich masters works out for the average American. I guess all they need for their floor speeches are a couple of bumper stickers and a few teabags -- they certainly have no idea of how to govern -- witness the 8 years of the bush regime that took this country down the rabbit hole. Now, I'm off to work, but I'll check back in to see if this new gang has solved our problems by now.

November 6, 2010 at 4:59 a.m.
ITguy said...

Francis,

Nancy Pelosi is still in Congress. She is not dead and gone. She was not up for election this year. Bush never ran against Obama. It was John McCain. If he wants to run against Obama in 2012, he is welcome. But he will lose again.

You need a little touch of reality.

November 6, 2010 at 6:21 a.m.
Clara said...

Thanks Clay and Acerigger! Great summation!

November 6, 2010 at 6:41 a.m.
EaTn said...

I'm not great at music but I could swear the sheet taps out a similar tune to the Beatles "I want to hold your hand".

November 6, 2010 at 6:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "still stinging from the ass kicking on tuesday, huh, ace?"


Do you really think that's what it was? Are you sure?

How do you know that the Democrats haven't figured out how to beat the Republicans at their own game? Think about it.

These House and Tea-Party candidates worked so fervently to convince the American people that the Democrats have ruined America. They convinced the American people that they have all the answers, while never divulging to the people what those answers are, and a great many people fell for it.

Now they've got two years to produce some results. Can they do it? Not if the eight years prior to 2009 is any indication as to how successful the Republicans are at producing jobs and allowing the general public to amass any wealth for themselves.

Swing voters, those with a very short memory and who vote in haste, will be just as likely to turn against the Republicans when they fail to live up to their promises, and from where I sit, they can't begin to keep the promises they have made. So what will the Republicans do in two years, when the nation is still stuck in the mud?

More importantly, what will those voters do, who have all those short term memories?

The Republicans will no more pay one cent towards reducing the National Debt than the Democrats have been able to do, that is unless they are totally determined to gut Medicare payments, Social Security Disability, and turn off the spigot to those unemployed. Oh...and also unless they have any intention of ending all occupation by troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They can't and they won't gut Obamacare. Why? Because if seniors get wind of the fact that their filled-in donut holes are going to be empty again, they are going turn on the Republicans with the click of a finger.

Are the Republicans going to invite corporations to bring back massive jobs into the U.S. that pay well and that offer benefits? No. They will however attempt to pass incentives so that you can work for your local McDonald's for $7.00 an hour and have $2,000 near worthless incidental medical insurance policies in place.

The Republicans never, ever, utter words to any effect that they will provide incentives for big business to once again offer good jobs to the people.

Why do you think they want to abolish the minimum wage? The plan is not to allow people to amass wealth and to work towards a new tax bracket. Their plan is to bring the working class's standard of living to that of the average worker in Mexico, Japan, or China BEFORE those jobs come back.

They want us to be as desperate and despondent enough to BEG Corporate America for a job...any job. And heaven forbid if you depend on the Government for your sustenance, earned or otherwise.

Wal-Mart can always use a few more greeters that the public can bash over the head when they ask for your receipt.

"Here's an application for you to fill out."

November 6, 2010 at 6:58 a.m.
rolando said...

Before 2 Nov, 65% of the American voters said we would be better off selecting our Congressmen by picking names at random from a phone book.

In a way, that's how they voted.

But then His Messiahship, Dear Leader Maobama says it is a "failure to communicate". So much for his "brilliance".

Clay and the Chattanooga Times [formerly the Times-Free Press] are still on their blindly followed anti-Palin, anti-everything-not-Democrat, anti-free speech pulpit. [Think not? Try citing something from a conservative news media -- and giving credit.]

Why do I bother? If it wasn't the only paper in town, I wouldn't.

As someone said, Clay has become boring and, worse, predictable.

November 6, 2010 at 7:01 a.m.
acerigger said...

I don't take the election results personally Fran. Having been born and raised in this area, I'm used to seeing people vote against their own self-interests. what is frustrating to me is seeing the "Southern Strategy" being used in many other parts of the country to lure the low-info voters into electing people who have no vision for progress, nor any plans which would maintain or continue American exceptionalism. Instead, it's all about hatred for Obama/Pelosi/Reed/Dems/liberals,etc. Judging from the demographics and the low turnout numbers of this election, I hardly believe that "America" has spoken!

November 6, 2010 at 7:13 a.m.
hambone said...

Frany, what is your definition of American Exceptionlism?

November 6, 2010 at 7:30 a.m.
acerigger said...

"[Think not? Try citing something from a conservative news media -- and giving credit.]" Rolando, giving credit,that's called "spamming",highly frowned on at most web-sites, left or right, Go back over to freeper republic or red(neck)state and try posting a link to kos or huff,they'll ban you completely and forever! By the way,it's not paranoid when you KNOW they're out to get you!

November 6, 2010 at 7:30 a.m.
moonpie said...

It seems to me that the point of this cartoon is that Governance is a very complex score and that people aligned with the Tea Party have a very crude instrument which is not actually capable of the complexity.

We probably all wish times were simple. Tea Party ideas are not complex. Of course this does not mean these folks are simpletons.

I empathize with a lot of folks in the Tea Party in that I think a lot of folks in government are out of touch with American citizens. I can understand wanting to simplify things in Washington, like the Tax Code.

I guess time will tell us if this group that is capable of anything more than jingoism. I'm sure we all have our preconceived notions on this.

So we'll see.

November 6, 2010 at 7:38 a.m.
acerigger said...

Just my way of sharing the wealth Wildman.

November 6, 2010 at 8:08 a.m.
woody said...

Once again, I am going to do my best to keep things positive..

Acerigger..I positively loved your early post...

Francis..you positively must be the biggest 'sourpuss' this side of anywhere...

Rolando, I am positively losing more and more respect for you with each passing day...Not that you even care and especially since Tuesday's debacle....

And "Moon" you positively 'hit the nail on the head' with your observation up above..however, I would like to take it one step further, if I may.

It's called the "KISS" method..so simple even a "Tea Bagger" or some such individual should be able to understand it.

While trying to 'work your magic' over the next 18 months or so..try to:

Keep It Simple Stupid

'Nuff said, Woody

November 6, 2010 at 8:23 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

Tea Party meetings and peaceful protests intimidates and antagonizes the heck out of many of you...doesn't it? I thought this was part of the democratic process? Oh well...I suppose that's not to be understandable for 'we' "simple-minded" ones....

November 6, 2010 at 9:10 a.m.
samplegirl said...

Random from a phonebook? I think not most were from the previous administration like Rob Portman.

November 6, 2010 at 9:14 a.m.
Francis said...

"sourpuss"..you must be referring to obama..did you see his post election speech performance...pure delusion and a performance worthy of a dept. store dummy.

no means no, you libs...the people said no to obama, no to pelosi, no to the cold statist vision obama has been peddling for the last two years.

the election was a complete rejection of obama....anybody but obama, is what the results say...republicans, tea party people, "moderate" democrats, independents, anyone...but obama and his goons.

the last two years proves you libs, when in power, are haters, haters of those who work hard and want to keep what they earn. haters of freedom...you can't understand how an american can be put off by the idea of being punished for not purchasing a commodity, health insurance,...punished with fines or prison......obama didn't have the balls to state that when he ran, but like the average cowardly and immoral socialist that he is...he sprang it on the people later.

you whine and bitch about the poor and middle class..but when someone "makes it" or is rewarded for their hard work you label them as greedy and look at them as a source of revenue.

obama flees to india in order to find some friendly faces, pelosi still wants to lead in someway..and harry reid is still left standing.

you have a lot to be proud about.

tuesday's election proves how out of touch, or out of tune you libs are with regular hard working americans..

November 6, 2010 at 9:47 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

I can't understand why Obama and the Democrats are falling all over themselves to find common ground with Republicans. The GOP idea of cooperation is their way or the highway.

Let's step into the Way Back machine for a moment to the 2008 election. Obama soundly beat McCain. Democrats won huge majorities in both the House and Senate. When, exactly, with the message from the American people loud and clear, did Republicans fall all over themselves to find common ground with Democrats?

Oh right. Starting with Boss Limbaugh's "I hope he fails," the GOP dug in their heels and kept screaming 'Hell No!'

Obama and the Democrats owe the temporary Republican majority in the House the same courtesy. Unfortunately, our President will probably continue playing the role of 'Professor Fluffy' and cave. He'll allow the tax cut on the rich to blow a $700 billion hole in the budget which the Republicans will then beat him over the head with in 2012.

Like all elections, it all came down to voter turn out. In 2008, 23 million white voters between 18 - 29 voted for Obama. In 2010, 14 million of them stayed home, did not vote, couldn't be bothered. They didn't vote Republican. Young people apparently need motivation to vote in mid-terms.

As the Teabaglicans start rolling back corporate regulations (they've already started with Wall Street) all you lemmings will hopefully realize Tea Baggers were not out to get government off YOUR back, they were out to get government off the backs of their corporate overlords.

November 6, 2010 at 9:53 a.m.
fairmon said...

If the facts point to something people don't want to hear or they don't understand it they prefer to ignore it.

It would be better if it mattered which party was in power but unfortunately it doesn't. Quantitative easing and the eventual inflation will finish off the middle class, they will join other species that have become extinct.

20% of the people provide about 90% of the federal income tax revenue and those paying none or very little keep voting and insisting on more of the local state and federal government.

Visit the government web sites and review the over 1000 freebies people can get. Until governments get their foot off the throat of job creating businesses and enable them to compete there will be no improvement in our economy. Demand for American made products will increase the need to expand and build to fill the demand therefore jobs and tax revenue. The business is important, not the over paid management. Until the government is no longer the largest employer in the country and quits trying to be everything for every resident things will not improve. Several fed departments should not exist and others should be reduced in a major way.

Never in history has any government successfully borrowed and spent their country to prosperity. Inflation makes the rich richer and the middle income less well off and the poor keep being supported by the rich until there are so many to be supported the rich can no longer support all of them. We are close to that point now. We still have not elected those willing to take the necessary bold steps to avoid an economic disaster in our future.

November 6, 2010 at 9:56 a.m.
DEB said...

If the tea party can accomplish what they have thus far with a tiny kazoo, imagine what they can do when they take control of the entire orchestra! Keep pressing on Tea Party!

November 6, 2010 at 10:30 a.m.
librul said...

Thanks Clay and Ace - you hit the teapot squarely on the dome.

November 6, 2010 at 10:33 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

Help me out here...what is exactly "hit on the dome"? Do you have any idea of what this 'grassroots' movement is about? Please explain...and please don't use this old-tired Republican vs Democrat explanation...the movement is much deeper than that shallow rant....

November 6, 2010 at 10:43 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

Asking tea baggers for specifics is a colossal waste of time.

They have slogans that fit on bumper stickers.

They want tax cuts for rich people to create jobs and balance the budget.

Tea Baggers are promising to repeat the exact same experiment exactly the same way - tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires - while predicting different results - job creation and a balanced budget.

People who believe that have to be both crazy and stupid.

Just don't ask them for specifics. If any of them criticize my comments read what they say very carefully. They will call me names, call my opinions out of touch, make some other general statements not related to anything, but they won't be specific about how the old tax scheme is different from the new tax scheme.

November 6, 2010 at 11:06 a.m.
Clara said...

I received an e-mail early this morning from a friend who declined my request to add his name, but which I think is worth while. The first part then, is hearsay, but I totally agree. The person is much smarter than I am and I am proud that he calls me friend.

The second part is for the conservatives and Tea Party members who spout religion.

  1. This past week there was an interview with about 10 big CEO's about the American economy. Here are a few of their thoughts about the government, national debt, cutting taxes and aiming for smaller government:

  2. No company can downsize its way to prosperity.

  3. When a company begins thinking of downsizing, its next step is bankruptcy.
  4. It is utterly foolish not to expand at this time when interest rates are so low.
  5. Even in hard times do not downsize your R&D, for that is where your future lies. And governments take note: education is its R&D. How many families scrimp to send their kids to college? Many! Somehow governments think that cutting education is the first thing that should be done. Perhaps it is because kids can't vote. Perhaps by dumbing down the populace the next dictator can take over.
  6. Neglect your infrastructure and kiss your future goodbye. So went Rome, and many that followed.

So what does this say about the ideals of the Tea Party?

2.I would like to add a question: When in history has a conservative outlook led to great advancement? Aren't they oxymorons?

And lastly, as I have probably mentioned to you before: Was Jesus a liberal or a conservative? After all, true Christians desire to follow in Jesus's footsteps.

Let's see a few of the things: Jesus said nothing much about marriage (it wasn't the institution then as it is now), nothing about gays or abortion (which was common then, too), nor about rigidly following the law - actually spoke of mercy (which is tolerance and forgiveness) and loving one another, a lot about providing for the poor and the sick (welfare), and missionary work, and providing for the flowers in the field or the foxes in their dens (environment?), very highly regarded women (didn't shoo them away, but befriended many of them and made one the "apostle to the apostles" [Mary Magdalene]). He said nothing about church buildings - but spoke rather of tearing down the temple.

Satan at Work in the Church is a proposed title of a book being composed by my hero Beau Perkins in my novels. Might many of the "Christian Right" be under the influence of Satan at work in the church? Cut welfare, Repeal health care, blah, blah, blah.

November 6, 2010 at 11:13 a.m.
acerigger said...

It's hard to tell the difference between the "real" grass roots movement and Dick(s) Armey of Koch-suckers. How would you "express" it?

November 6, 2010 at 11:15 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

Let’s face it our country is broke! Millions have lost their homes either to foreclosure or a short sale. The stimulus money has not created millions of new jobs. We are in debt to our eyeballs.

China has even threatened to stop buying our bonds. We must impose a tariff on China in order to loosen their stranglehold on our economy.

And all we do is attack each others opinions and views. We behave as if we are re-arraigning the deck chairs on the Titanic as she sinks.

The Ideals of the Tea Party (grass roots)…(?) What is so wrong with citizens tying to stop what which is designed to turn the US into a socialist state? It’s neither a Republican nor Democrat movement. It’s organic. It transcends party affiliations.

Both the Republicans and Democrats have been and are guilty of using the central government to confiscate our money and transfer it to their political machine. I agree with many of you…the Republican Party started this mess…but…I also agree that Obama has taken the ball and scored a touchdown for his side. This is another reason why the Tea Party movement is attracting “patriots”.

November 6, 2010 at 11:49 a.m.
mmlj said...

Ace, awesome job of copying and pasting and playing it off as your own thought.

Usual crowd, way to give credit repeatedly to ace for something that can be found on countless websites. I thought many of you would have that tattooed to your arm by now.

Clay, nice job of going back to the well of Tea Party once again. Brilliant originality.

Woody, your obsession with everything Francis posts is getting as predictable as the cartoons. Let him talk; you can disagree without making a daily record of it. But because your home-spun and folksy, no one calls you out on it...especially when you talk about how positive you always are.

Always annoyed with your posts, mmlj

November 6, 2010 at 11:54 a.m.
Lightnup said...

alprova wrote: "They convinced the American people that they have all the answers, while never divulging to the people what those answers are, and a great many people fell for it."

To qoute Queen Pelosi, "We'll have to pass the bill first to see what's in it." And now, AARP and the rest of the morons who blindly believe whatever Obama/Reid/Pelosi spew forth are having to admit that it contains exactly what the rest of us already told them... higher insurance costs, lower healthcare quality, rationing and more obtrusive government control.

And Pelosi is proud of her "great accomplishments." Go figure.

Blackwater wrote: "They have slogans that fit on bumper stickers."

Like "Hope and Change" wasn't a slogan?

Blackwater also wrote: "They want tax cuts for rich people to create jobs and balance the budget."

No, they want tax cuts for the only people who CAN create jobs: private sector employers and entrepreneurs. Tax cuts for the poor won't create jobs....especially since the poor don't pay taxes.

Employees don't create jobs, academia doesn't create jobs, even government doesn't create jobs that contribute to the economy.

Obama's and the Dem's anti-business, class warfare, punish success, tax-the-rich policies do nothing but create the threatening, uncertain environment that causes business owners to cease expanding and/or adding jobs. Cause & effect, it's that simple.

November 6, 2010 at 12:16 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "you can't understand how an american can be put off by the idea of being punished for not purchasing a commodity, health insurance,...punished with fines or prison......obama didn't have the balls to state that when he ran, but like the average cowardly and immoral socialist that he is...he sprang it on the people later.


Francis, do you find pleasure in being so ignorant to the truth? Why do you find it so easy to lie? Oh yeah, you're a Foxie.

First of all, no one, and I do mean no one, has ever suggested jailing anyone for not purchasing health care insurance. When that provision comes to pass, those who cannot afford the insurance will get prebates from the Government to assist them in being able to purchase it.

Those who do buy their own insurance will get tax credits for every dollar spent for premiums.

If someone makes a conscience decision to not purchase health care insurance, Section 501 imposes a tax on that person "not to exceed the applicable national average premium."

All this crap about "jailing people" who do not buy health care coverage is based on the assumption that because the IRS collects the tax for failing to purchase health care coverage, the IRS will have the power to have the taxpayer arrested and jailed.

The same holds true today if one refuses to pay their income or other IRS collected taxes, but how many people are arrested and jailed by the IRS each year? Not that many at all. Those that are, are almost all in DEEP debt the the IRS for large amounts of money and willful evaders. All other avenues of collection have been tried as well.

And, the icing on the cake is that President Obama is not the FIRST person who went on record in calling for mandated health insurance for all.

Republican Presidential nominee, John McCain, did. It was the cornerstone of his proposals on reforming health care. Of course, that was at a peak in February in 2008, when 59% of Americans polled in support of such an idea, and before mainstream Republicans came out against the idea and first began floating this stupid rumor that people would be jailed for not buying health care insurance.

November 6, 2010 at 12:26 p.m.
Francis said...

you libs love to twist the truth and blur what's on record..the fact is prison time awaits those who don't cooperate.....in an interview obama was asked about that and he had no problem with it. said it was necessary.

it's quite clear that he's about forcing his agenda down our throats.....he's a bully.....tuesdays's results reflect that.

he's not misunderstood..and there's not a lack of communication..that's not why his agenda was derailed on tuesday...heck, he owns the liberal media and hollywood......his message is loud and clear...

and people hate it.

alprova...obama will use the irs like the soviets used the kgb..and the east germans used their t hugs.....

no it 's tax..no it's a penalty..no , a tax.....whichever you libs decide on ... it sucks.....

it's over alprova...so over...his power was taken from him on tuesday... end of story..

the fact is obama wants the federal government to force citizens to enter into a contract with a private company...to force them to purchase a commodity......if they don't..they' ll pay.

thank god for the tea party movement..and their effort to hold republicans to t heir words and to expose democrats for what they are...bullies and control freaks..

November 6, 2010 at 1:02 p.m.
Clara said...

mmlj,

I'm curious to know how you ascertained that Ace cut and pasted his comment!

November 6, 2010 at 1:03 p.m.
Clara said...

Music,

Can you tell from the first page of the music what the source was?

Very Curious.

November 6, 2010 at 1:07 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

John Boehner was interviewed by Diane Sawyer this week after the election. The first question that she asked him was how many jobs were the Republicans going to create and when. Boehner skirted the issue by talking about something else. Diane went back to the original question. All Boehner could say was that they hoped that the job growth would begin by the end of the year but could give NO specifics. Yep, THAT'S a plan!

I think that conservative America will be disappointed before this is all over.

As for AARP and their rate hikes...as I posted on another blog...I discovered years ago that AARP was over charging me for a dental policy. Theirs was $45/month but the BCBS policy...with more coverage...was $26/month. AARP is using the Health Care bill as a cover to deflect their own bad behavior. If I remember correctly, health care premiums have gone up EVERY year before the Health Care bill. Look at Medicare...the premiums more than doubled during the Bush administration.

Francis, besides the same argument about "forced" health care, I am seriously interested in your thoughts on why the Republicans are better than the Democrats. How are they helping the majority of the American people? How will they balance the budget? Where will they cut government spending (they've already said that they will increase the defense budget)? How can they reduce the size of government? What, precisely, is the reason that you hate Obama? It would help if you give me your opinions not the ones that FoxNews has given you.

In fact, any of the conservatives on this blog...please let me know what your thoughts are on the above questions. I am always interested in understanding the differing viewpoint.

November 6, 2010 at 1:46 p.m.
acerigger said...

I confess the obvious,(again) yep,cutter and paster I am. But that changes the truth HOW?

November 6, 2010 at 1:56 p.m.
Francis said...

"hate" obama...i don't hate anyone..i call it as i see it..he comes across the way i describe him...

why don't you give opinions seperate from those of the left leaning media....their talking points...savartitn....

fox news is just one source of news...i look at many things...

you libs irrational fear of fox news is laughable given the likes of msnbc and all the other alphabet networks..npr..pbs.......

how can john boehner answer that stupid question...how is he supposed to know how many jobs the "republicans will create"....who can answer that? first of all..it's not the republicans job to create jobs...the governments job is not to create jobs.....he "skirted"..because it's a lamebrain question.

i saw that interview.....diane sawyer is a moron....what a dumb, cheap, loaded question created to fire up the democrat parties ever shrinking, ignorant and hand out minded base.

you libs don't understand economics.......business or entrepenuership... you're clearly dense.....all boehner can do is help government get out of the way so businesses can flourish in this country....so they can grow and hire.......it takes a special kind of arrogance, such as obama's, to be- lieve it's his job to create jobs.......especially him...a man with no experience in the real world working.

you libs think you're enlightened and inspired and free thinkers..you sound just like some stale, old socialist from 1917.... give it up..

the "same" point about forcing people to buy in- surance cannot be repeated often enough..it sums up obama's mentality..

November 6, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.
GreenKepi said...

SavartiTN...I'll give it a try. Democrats and Republicans...to start - both need to work together to protect the Constitution and since I spent 20 years in the military...(my pet-peeve)rewrite the rules of engagement which is getting so many of our young men and women needlessly killed.

Then...(just to name a few things that would help)...reject Cap & Trade, impose a cap limiting federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate, come up with a health care system that isn't restricted by state boundaries, stop the pork, stop all the tax hikes, close & defend the boarders, strike down the anchor babies law, export jailed illegal aliens, rewrite the rules of engagements, institute a flat tax, get rid of the Czars, and limit welfare benefits.

All this on paper may sound good and "fair"...but...lets open our eyes...our country is "BROKE" and we cannot continue all this "feel good" stuff - or we are not going to have enough 'have's' to take it from to take care of the 'have-nots'.

In other words...we need belt-tightening! Now...I'm ready to be 'jumped' on for being so insensitive!

November 6, 2010 at 2:37 p.m.
Francis said...

you libs's stupid mantra about bush/cheny, fox news, "tea baggers", rush limb- augh..etc..blew up in your faces on tuesday.....adopt a different strategy. that one doesnt' work.

juan williams doesn't have a problem with fox news....why should you?

November 6, 2010 at 2:45 p.m.
Francis said...

why do you libs "hate" george w bush and dick cheney?

greenkepi..well, said.

but, you can forget about dems protectiing the constitution, obama uses it for toilet paper.

November 6, 2010 at 3:04 p.m.
mmlj said...

Clara, if you do a google search of any one of the lines from the post, you'll find the same complete list published on hundreds of other pages.

November 6, 2010 at 3:30 p.m.
woody said...

mmlj..I am truly sorry you find my posts offensive..I am even sorrier you can't find fault with one who's posts here are truly offensive.

I was taught as a child..if you ignore someone of Francis' ilk they will go away and not bother you anymore. And yet, in Francis' case to ignore him is to allow him more time and space to belittle a man he knows only by name and prominence, run into the ground a philosophy which has given the 'common man' hope in the past-present-and future, and call into question anyone who doesn't believe in that which he does.

Again, I apologize if I have offended you or anyone here with my "folksy-positive" posts and manner, but even us quiet, positive, mannerly types get a little 'miffed' with the continuous poisonous diatribe your friend and his friends constantly spew.

And so, I choose to be somewhat 'glib' with my accusations and such. I find that much more gentlemanly than the 'gutter' talk I read here most days.

Smile, what have you got to lose, Woody

November 6, 2010 at 4:07 p.m.
moonpie said...

Wow, I've spent a day outside in beautiful Chattanooga, soaking up the cool fall air and bright sunshine. I probably should not have checked this site. There is a lot of negativity here, even among folks who should be happy about these recent mid-term elections!

So I'm going to take a different tact. With the beating he's been taking lately, I just want to give a pat on the back to President Obama. I'm proud of President Obama.

I think he came to the presidency when this country was in economic shambles, into a political environment where the only goal of Rebublicans was to cause him to fail. Instead of trying to move our country forward, Rebublicans talked about Obama's Waterloo.

Despite this, President Obama was still able to accomplish many things of value to this great nation of ours. Has he done everything right? No. Has he done everything he set out to do? Of course not.

But nowhere do I see him as the "liar" and "anti-American" that some on this site and others proclaim he is.

Here is a very short (top 10) list of things I am proud of President Obama for:

1) He's had the guts to propose solutions that are unpopular, such as raising taxes. (Prior administrations wanted to just borrow and spend.) 2) He supported, advocated for and signed into law the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Play Act. 3) He held BP accountable for the Gulf Oil spill, as opposed to many Republicans who either apologized to BP or who said the federal government should help pay the costs (as if we weren't subsidising oil companies enough already!) 4) He limited private companies ability to force people into medical bankruptcy and moved us forward on health care reform. Thank you for Obamacare. It's not at all what I wanted, but it's a step in the right direction. 5) Banking reform, including the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act. 6) Having a more humble foreign policy than those previously who had promised to deliver a "humble foreign policy." 7) The have the courage to do unpopular things like raise taxes, even when you know they won't be received well. 8) Repealed the limitations on Stem Cell research. 9) Ended the media blackout on war casualties. 10) Improved our image on the global stage. While, some in America claim Obama is arrogant, for some reason, our nation doesn't seem as arrogant when he's at the helm. (I'm reminded of one of Cheney's interview when he was asked to comment on the unpopularity of the war, and his answer was "So." Cheney's answer was full of disdain, because it came without any respect for citizen's concerns. If Obama realizes something is unpopular, he acknowledges the fact and then gives his reasons for why he thinks his way is the correct one.

November 6, 2010 at 4:13 p.m.
hambone said...

If Francis and others truely beleive that the Tea Party/GOP will repeal "The Pateint Protection and Affordabilty Act" cut srending, reduce debt and lower taxes.

Then I beleive Elvis and Jimmie Hoffa are alive and living together in a condo in Dothan AL.

November 6, 2010 at 5:12 p.m.
mmlj said...

Woody,

I don’t think that I ever called your posts offensive. I have pointed out that they’re not always “positive,” the quality that you demand from others who post. Coming from a conservative viewpoint, little is “positive” on here. The tone is established by the cartoonist and echoed by the dozens who share his ideology; conservatives are mocked daily, repeatedly. And that’s fine; I’m not crying victim. All I’m saying is be careful in identifying Francis and others’ negativity, when its spewing forth from the other side (your side) all of the time. I know your side is right, so it’s not negativity, it’s fact. From the liberal vantage point, there is nothing wrong with bashing the intellect and motives of citizens of the Tea Party movement and other conservative causes. Even you can flippantly state, “It's called the "KISS" method..so simple even a "Tea Bagger" or some such individual should be able to understand it” without seeing any negative tone. Granted, not that harsh, but such comments are so common they go unchallenged.

If conservatives were to address every criticism on this liberal board, they’d never be able to push back from the keyboard. And I don’t see a conservative who has the time of some on the board who can take apart and twist every line of opposition that is written.

November 6, 2010 at 6:01 p.m.

re: acerigger: I have been puzzled by this same lack of response to the same outlined facts and reality you listed. Why only when a bi-racial male lands in the White House do these sane humans have vision?? This stinks to high heaven and, I fear the price to pay will be drastic. They have set the stage for a nasty comeuppence.

November 6, 2010 at 6:06 p.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "Obama's and the Dem's anti-business, class warfare, punish success, tax-the-rich policies do nothing but create the threatening, uncertain environment that causes business owners to cease expanding and/or adding jobs. Cause & effect, it's that simple."


If it's that simple, then explain why it is that unemployment is down 2% nationwide and in 47 states, after peaking in those states at various times since January 2009.

That is a documented fact and completely contrary to all that you claim.

November 6, 2010 at 6:32 p.m.
softnotes37 said...

Mr. Bennett,If one could go inside your head they would never leave. There is a lot going in there. You got to enjoy being there. It is so clear and funny.

November 6, 2010 at 6:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "you libs love to twist the truth and blur what's on record..the fact is prison time awaits those who don't cooperate.....in an interview obama was asked about that and he had no problem with it. said it was necessary."


That statement scores 1,000,000 on the B.S. meter. Such a statement NEVER came from his lips. Cite the date he supposedly said it and/or who was interviewing him, so that the article or video can be Googled.


"alprova...obama will use the irs like the soviets used the kgb..and the east germans used their t hugs....."


Oh brother.


"no it 's tax..no it's a penalty..no , a tax.....whichever you libs decide on ...it sucks....."


Do you live on the Tennessee side? Do you own a motor vehicle? Do you have insurance on that vehicle? Do you know what happens if you don't have insurance on it and drive south into Georgia and are stopped for a traffic violation and the officer discovers you are not insured?

You are arrested, your vehicle is impounded, and you will be paying lots of cash to get your car back, and the fine you will pay for not having insurance will simply astound you.

Do you think you have a right to drive a motor vehicle in Georgia without insurance?

A penalty for not being insured while driving is perfectly understandable, so what is so different in demanding that people insure themselves against catastrophic medical claims?

Better, why is everyone not on board with finding a cost effective means by which to assure that EVERYONE has access to affordable health care?


"it's over alprova...so over...his power was taken from him on tuesday...end of story.."


On the contrary. Not that he is on any power trip to begin with, he is still the President of the United States, and the fight to protect ALL Americans has just begun.

"the fact is obama wants the federal government to force citizens to enter into a contract with a private company...to force them to purchase a commodity......if they don't..they' ll pay."


Since you have objections to that kind of regulating and protecting of the public against scofflaws, then I assume you will be placing your car up for sale on Craigslist.

November 6, 2010 at 6:54 p.m.
Lightnup said...

Alprova uses the totally illogical argument: "A penalty for not being insured while driving is perfectly understandable, so what is so different in demanding that people insure themselves against catastrophic medical claims?"

You do not have to buy car insurance unless you CHOOSE to drive on public roads. You can drive your car all over your own private property without being forced to buy insurance. The difference is that with ObamaCare, you don't get to choose and are forced to buy insurance merely because you are a U.S. citizen.

November 6, 2010 at 7:21 p.m.
Clara said...

OOOH! Someone didn't like my copy/paste article of 11:13 a.m. I'm devestated! My delicate sensetivities are torn to bits. Sob!

I wish they could tell me what inspired that vote!

C:-)

November 6, 2010 at 7:22 p.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "Actually Alprova, contrary to your "documented fact," according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. unemployment rate was 7.6% in January 2009 and 9.6% in October, 2010.(Source: http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=13307) That's 2% higher, not lower.

At best, the current rate is only 6/10ths of 1 percent less than the peak of 10.2% in October of 2009. Where did your 2% fantasy claim come from?"


The highest unemployment rates across the nation did not ALL peak in ALL states in January 2009. Some did not peak until as late as June of THIS year.

I spent two hours downloading each and every state to derive the figures that reflect the ACTUAL current unemployment rates, when each state peaked in unemployment, and did some simple averaging to derive the fact that unemployment across the nation are indeed down 2% nationwide, in all but three states.

The average, taken as a snapshot at any one point or month or year, does not tell the entire story. Rising unemployment and falling unemployment occurred in different months and in different states around the country.

MY research and figures were found at the U.S. Department of Labor and on the Bureau of Labor Statistics as well.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/oct/17/holdout/#c50442

November 6, 2010 at 7:56 p.m.
alprova said...

Lighnup wrote: "Alprova uses the totally illogical argument: "A penalty for not being insured while driving is perfectly understandable, so what is so different in demanding that people insure themselves against catastrophic medical claims?

You do not have to buy car insurance unless you CHOOSE to drive on public roads. You can drive your car all over your own private property without being forced to buy insurance."


It's hardly an illogical argument, since there are probably close to ZERO people on this planet who "choose" to not insure their motor vehicles and "choose" to only confine the operation of their motor vehicles to the confines of private property.

Nice try though.


"The difference is that with ObamaCare, you don't get to choose and are forced to buy insurance merely because you are a U.S. citizen."


No one is forced to do anything. That's the part that people are not getting.

You are free to choose not to purchase insurance and to pay an amount equal to the prevailing health care premium amount to the Government, and they will pick-up the tab for your health care, should you wind up in a hospital.

Are you arguing that people should be free to just not become responsible adults and to be allowed to be 100% freeloaders when it comes to health care?

That argument kinda flies in the face of what Republicans/Conservatives usually have to say when it comes any subject regarding self-responsibility.

Is it preferable that the taxpayers continue to pick up the tab for willful freeloaders who want to pay nothing at all for their health care coverage or expenses?

I mean, what EXACTLY are you folks objecting to? Are you the people who want to see people in this nation become more responsible, or are you much more content to see people take advantage of the taxpayers?

Or is the argument really about the fact that the Democrats included a provision that basically demands a little self-responsibility, which at one time the Republicans were once for, before they decided to come out against it?

It's arguments like that, which has me voting for the Democrats for the past four years, and that will continue to make me choose to do so.

November 6, 2010 at 8:16 p.m.
ITguy said...

Alprova,

The problem is that some people fail to understand that they are citizens of the United States. With citizenship comes responsibility. Some people seem to think that paying taxes or requiring them to have insurance is an infringement on their 'freedom'. However, they expect the government to step in in the event of natural disaster, and if they are involved in an accident, they will expect the police to show up. And if they are injured, they will expect an ambulance ride to the hospital and they will expect the Doctors to do everything possible to save their life. When they can't pay the bill, they will file bankruptcy.

Mean time the responsible citizens will pay the bills through higher insurance rates.

November 6, 2010 at 8:42 p.m.
alprova said...

Much has been said and written over the past few days. Some think that this election was about the President and his lack of action in addressing the economy and jobs.

So where is the President today? In India. And what was the subject of the day? Trade and jobs.

The list of trade deals cited today will have a very big impact when it comes to jobs.

Boeing Aircraft made a $4.1 billion agreement for the Indian air force to purchase TEN C-17 military transport planes, supporting more than 22,000 jobs back home. Boeing said the C-17 deal with India will support 650 suppliers in U.S., employees in 44 states, and support the company's C-17 production facility in Long Beach, California, for an entire year.

Other deals announced today, include a contract for General Electric to provide the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency with 107 F414 engines for the Tejas light-combat aircraft, a deal worth $822 million and supporting 4,440 jobs.

Harley-Davidson Motor Company announced it is opening a new plant in India for the assembly of its motorcycles from parts manufactured in Wisconsin. Besides job creation in both India and in the United States, the deal will allow the company to reduce the tariff on its bikes for sale in India.

Boeing Aircraft also signed a deal to sell 30 of its B737-800 commercial aircraft to SpiceJet, a leading private airline in India. The deal is valued at $2.7 billion and supports nearly 13,000 jobs.

And today's announcement by the newly emboldened Republicans regarding their plan for supporting and/or creating jobs in America was...what?

That's right. We're still waiting with bated breath for the big announcement of their big plan for saving America from the evil, Socialist/Communist, President Obama.

November 6, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I am enjoying your posts here today, al. Thanks.

November 6, 2010 at 9:08 p.m.
Clara said...

Ikeithlu, I also,Al!

November 6, 2010 at 10:02 p.m.
moonpie said...

al,

I am amazed at your tireless efforts to research and back up your positions. This is in stark contrast to people who argue against you.

Keep up the good work.

Most people here, including myself, frequently offer only theory and opinion.

November 6, 2010 at 10:08 p.m.
Clara said...

SavartiTN,

I've never accepted AARP as reliable. Never joined. Never will.

November 6, 2010 at 10:24 p.m.
Lightnup said...

Alprova wrote: "The average, taken as a snapshot at any one point or month or year, does not tell the entire story. Rising unemployment and falling unemployment occurred in different months and in different states around the country."

Alprova, you're grasping at straws. We're talking about the NATIONAL unemployment rate as announced monthly, not whether it was slightly different in Topeka, KS on June 5th than it was in Tempe, AZ on August 29th. How silly.

Of course, you probably also realize that they only count people who are actively looking for work and they stop counting the people who have simply given up trying to find a job, making the actual unemployment rate much higher than that reported by the govt.

Nice try though.

November 6, 2010 at 10:54 p.m.
hambone said...

Al why bother? When you take the time to do proper research all your going to here from Francis and such is the same old rant that sounds like a Limpbaugh or Beckkk call in show. When you ask a direct question they are not able to give a rational answer. With Francis all you get is name calling and Obama is a )(&^%$$%^&(&^%$#@ or Reid is a $%(&^%#%^&.

November 6, 2010 at 11:31 p.m.
Lightnup said...

Alprova typed: "Are you arguing that people should be free to just not become responsible adults and to be allowed to be 100% freeloaders when it comes to health care?"

Yes, I am arguing that people should be free to just not become responsible adults... along with the clear understanding that with that freedom and self-responsibility comes the obligation to face the consequences of one's failure to act responsibly.

I'd prefer to make it mandatory that anyone who declines to buy health insurance must sign a waiver of their rights to future health care at government (the taxpayers) expense. It's called self-responsibility and living or dying with the consequences of the decisions one makes.

You Dems/Liberals on the other hand, have spent decades creating a massive government-supported welfare/entitlement culture that has made the concept of self-responsibility almost a myth to an entire generation.

Alprova wrote: "Is it preferable that the taxpayers continue to pick up the tab for willful freeloaders who want to pay nothing at all for their health care coverage or expenses?"

Wait a minute. Acerigger says that hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying due to lack of health care, yet you say that taxpayers are covering the health care costs for all the freeloaders? Which one is it?

I absolutely prefer that taxpayers stop picking up the tab for willful freeloaders. It wouldn't have been my choice to begin having taxpayers pick up the tab for willful freeloaders in the first place. Obviously, some bleeding hearts in Washington DC made that decision long ago, and killed the concept of self-responsibility in the process.

November 6, 2010 at 11:48 p.m.
acerigger said...

It's too bad that Pres. Obama keeps blocking the GOP from passing a JOBS bill! When is he gonna get out of the way of progress?

November 6, 2010 at 11:49 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

Well, Francis, I have to be honest. I didn't learn anything from your response about how some people view our American crisis. I really was trying. But it came across like...well...vapor. You know, something seen occasionally but without any substance. Sort of like Boehner's answer to the jobs question which wasn't such a good response since the Republicans are trying to convince America that they have ALL the answers and it was his turn to shine. It was a real let down as far as I was concerned.

moonpie, I appreciated your post on why to be proud of President Obama. At least you cited concrete reasons. That was refreshing. And I agree with them all.

November 7, 2010 at 2:12 a.m.
SavartiTN said...

BTW, Francis, you seem so bitter considering your side "won" on Tuesday. That is sad.

November 7, 2010 at 2:20 a.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "Alprova, you're grasping at straws. We're talking about the NATIONAL unemployment rate as announced monthly, not whether it was slightly different in Topeka, KS on June 5th than it was in Tempe, AZ on August 29th. How silly."


What's silly is the fact that you obviously did not click on the link and look at the figures. Where do you think the national unemployment rates are reported from? The States.

Had you looked at the figures, you would have noticed the month and year that unemployment peaked and the current rate of unemployment in each of the 50 states.

Again, taking a snapshot of the "national" rate on any particular date in no manner is an accurate depiction when it comes to the actual unemployment rates as they have progressed. Each state had different rates unemployment and their upward or downward numbers were as unique as the months in which they had significant changes in unemployment.

But why should I be surprised at your attempt to discount some simple facts? The right-wing in this nation doesn't care about specifics. They seem to only be interested in dealing in generalities these days.


"Of course, you probably also realize that they only count people who are actively looking for work and they stop counting the people who have simply given up trying to find a job, making the actual unemployment rate much higher than that reported by the govt."


It's a popular argument offered by some, but people who truly need a job don't give up trying to find a job. Do such people simply find themselves with no more bills to pay? Do they simply give up eating? Do they dig a hole, lie down in it and then reach up to shovel dirt over their body?

Who are these people who "give up looking for a job" that are not counted any longer?

November 7, 2010 at 3:19 a.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "Yes, I am arguing that people should be free to just not become responsible adults... along with the clear understanding that with that freedom and self-responsibility comes the obligation to face the consequences of one's failure to act responsibly."


Unfortunately for you and others like you who have that mindset, you are quite outvoted by those of us who cannot turn their backs on their fellow humans.


"I'd prefer to make it mandatory that anyone who declines to buy health insurance must sign a waiver of their rights to future health care at government (the taxpayers) expense. It's called self-responsibility and living or dying with the consequences of the decisions one makes."


Sorry. It will never happen. It would be nice however to see Republicans to honestly go on record in calling for such a consequence. Not even the hard-hearted among them is that stupid though.


"You Dems/Liberals on the other hand, have spent decades creating a massive government-supported welfare/entitlement culture that has made the concept of self-responsibility almost a myth to an entire generation."


I see, and the Republicans have had no hand whatsoever in what you describe as this so called, "welfare/entitlement culture?" Can you seriously type that with a straight face?


"Acerigger says that hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying due to lack of health care, yet you say that taxpayers are covering the health care costs for all the freeloaders? Which one is it?"


Both. You know it and I know it.

Among those who are uninsured, are many who refuse to take advantage of free health care paid for at the taxpayers expense. They deny themselves medicine that they cannot afford. They don't pop into emergency rooms at any opportunity. They die early deaths because they are not treated.

On the other hand, you have those who use hospitals to every personal advantage, as if those hospitals are at their beck and call, and will stop in when they have nothing more than a sniffle.


"Obviously, some bleeding hearts in Washington DC made that decision long ago, and killed the concept of self-responsibility in the process."


Oh...NOW I get it. The concept of self-responsibility is dead. And as such, the Democrats and our President are wasting their time in offering to give such a concept mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Does that just about cover it?

Look, there is no secret when it comes to what happened regarding mandatory coverage. The Republicans proposed it first. Obama won the election. He stood in front of the nation during his first State of the Union address, giving John McCain credit for the idea and openly declared that he was going to borrow it, and did.

Then the Republicans cried foul and did a complete 180 degree turn, as they always do on any issue that they cannot take credit for. They're hypocrites, the lot of 'em, and it's all documented.

November 7, 2010 at 3:56 a.m.
alprova said...

Ikeithlu, Clara, and Moonpie, thank you very much for the accolades. They are definitely appreciated.

Hambone, I don't refute misinformation for the sake of the person offering it. As we know, most of those people are never seekers of truth and facts.

I do it for the sake of those who ARE interested in the truth and facts.

November 7, 2010 at 4:02 a.m.
Lightnup said...

Alprova wrote: "What's silly is the fact that you obviously did not click on the link and look at the figures. Where do you think the national unemployment rates are reported from? The States."

Well, DUH! Of course I looked at the figures. MY data came directly from the National Conference of STATE Legislatures.

But, breaking down the NATIONAL unemployment rate into 50 different numbers for the purposes of picking and choosing by state is silly. Why not break it down by cities and have thousands of numbers to pick and choose from:

In September, the unemployment rate in El Centro, CA was 30.4%, Bismark, ND was 2.8%. Wow, the Dems have done a great job....IF you live in Bismark.

However, since the ONLY number anyone (except you) uses as a gauge of the NATIONAL unemployment picture is the NATIONAL unemployment rate, grasping at individual state numbers to prove a point is just plain silly.

November 7, 2010 at 10:40 a.m.
Lightnup said...

I stayed away from these forums for nearly a year because I realized it's fruitless to argue with hateful liberal zealots (i.e., the hate-filled treatment of conservative candidates like Palin, O'Donnell, Whitman and Angle). I hoped that the Dems continued destruction of our economy would be enough evidence for them that blind devotion to big government, bigger taxes and elitism was wrong-headed.

I was hoping that after this month's election, in which the American people made it extremely clear that the direction that Obama/Pelosi/Reid are taking this country is wrong, wrong and wrong, some of the liberal zealots would have come to their senses and removed their Obama-Biden bumper stickers. But, unfortunately, some people just can't be reached. Sort of like extreme Muslims... the ideology blinds them to common sense and their own good.

See you in 2012. Maybe by then you'll have come out from under the illogical, elitist liberal ether.

November 7, 2010 at 11:15 a.m.
ITguy said...

Lightnup,

I challenge you to find a country anywhere in the world that refuses health to those without insurance. Then, tell me that you really want to live there.

November 7, 2010 at 3:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "Well, DUH! Of course I looked at the figures. MY data came directly from the National Conference of STATE Legislatures."


From where? Oh...okay, they cite their source, BLS.


"But, breaking down the NATIONAL unemployment rate into 50 different numbers for the purposes of picking and choosing by state is silly."


The point being, and why I pulled that data, is that peaks in unemployment did not all occur at the same rate in each state, in the same months, as well as the relevant downward trends in unemployment.


"Why not break it down by cities and have thousands of numbers to pick and choose from:"


Well, for one thing, while it would probably be even more to the point, such an undertaking across the country would take weeks to accomplish.

I dedicate enough time as it is to refuting misinformation.


"In September, the unemployment rate in El Centro, CA was 30.4%, Bismark, ND was 2.8%. Wow, the Dems have done a great job....IF you live in Bismark."


What you're doing now is purposely associating, twisting, and misrepresenting facts that have no correlation whatsoever, except when used to average the national rate of unemployment. Those national averages are purposely quoted in order to paint a horrible picture.

Bismark, N.D never had an unemployment rate that was above 5%. El Centro, California peaked a little higher than 32%. But what does either city have to do with each other in terms of their unique employment statistics? Nothing.

Averaging those two cities does not give anyone an accurate picture as to how unemployment has improved at all individually, and you know it.

Thank you for proving my point.


"However, since the ONLY number anyone (except you) uses as a gauge of the NATIONAL unemployment picture is the NATIONAL unemployment rate, grasping at individual state numbers to prove a point is just plain silly."


On the contrary. People who want to project doom and gloom quote those national averages BECAUSE the figures skew and blur the picture by lumping low unemployment in some states with those that have high unemployment rates, effectively and purposely disguising the fact that unemployment is down in all but three states, since their individual peaks and rates of unemployment.

Call me silly all day long, but you can't disprove the facts I posted, and their relevance to the truth that the actual unemployment rates have slid downward in 47 states 2% on average, since their individual peak rates of unemployment.

November 8, 2010 at 6:44 a.m.
alprova said...

Lightnup wrote: "I stayed away from these forums for nearly a year because I realized it's fruitless to argue with hateful liberal zealots (i.e., the hate-filled treatment of conservative candidates like Palin, O'Donnell, Whitman and Angle)."


Look, those women chose to enter the limelight and to run for office. Palin, O'Donnell, and Angle all have/had baggage that expose/exposed them for the kooks that they are. No one, to my recollection, ever raised Meg Whitman's name in this forum. I think she threw $150 million down the drain, but it was hers to spend.

Criticizing them for being out in far right field when the ball is being hit to center field is not the same thing as "hating" them.

But...three down and one to go. It won't be the Democrats that take Palin down. It will be those in her own party who will dispatch her back to Alaska. There are at least a dozen long time Republicans that want to prop their feet up on that desk in the Oval Office.


"I hoped that the Dems continued destruction of our economy would be enough evidence for them that blind devotion to big government, bigger taxes and elitism was wrong-headed."


That's the part that you folks will never get. The Democrats did not continue to destroy our economy. They in fact, saved this nation from a much worse economy that could have taken place if they had not thrown money into that dark hole to plug it.

As someone pointed out yesterday, had the financial institutions of this nation not been saved, there would have been a run on every bank, everyone who had investments would have yanked them, and unemployment would have shot up like a rocket to rates that would have rivaled the 1930's.


"I was hoping that after this month's election, in which the American people made it extremely clear that the direction that Obama/Pelosi/Reid are taking this country is wrong, wrong and wrong, some of the liberal zealots would have come to their senses and removed their Obama-Biden bumper stickers."


Why would we? I'm not fond of either Pelosi or Reid, and never really have been, because they are arrogant and entrenched leaders. That does not mean that they were wrong in what they attempted to do for the common people of this nation.


"But, unfortunately, some people just can't be reached. Sort of like extreme Muslims... the ideology blinds them to common sense and their own good."


Uh huh, that was a deep and relevant comparison.


"See you in 2012. Maybe by then you'll have come out from under the illogical, elitist liberal ether."


Okey Dokey.

November 8, 2010 at 7:26 a.m.
Musicman375 said...

Sorry for the late response Clara, but I am just now reading through this thread as I was away from the site all weekend.

I'm not sure what piece of music it is, but the detail is incredible. It is definitely a piano piece of some sort, possibly Sonata-Allegro in form, but I don't know which one. I would be interested to know whether he drew this free hand while using the original as a reference or if he simply copied and pasted it all in some how. All the detail is perfect in terms of dynamics, key signature, time signature, phrase markings, accidentals, etc. Great artwork on this one, Clay.

November 8, 2010 at 1:44 p.m.
Musicman375 said...

Well Clara, with my limited iPhone searches while away from home, I haven't found any matching pieces entitled Sonata in E minor or Sonata in G major, so I'm still at a lose as to the actual title/composer. It might not even be a sonata, but that's what it most resembles to me. Maybe I can figure it out later with an actual PC at my disposal, or else in one of my books of piano solos.

November 8, 2010 at 3:10 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Wow people,

This place has deteriorated into a sewer! I guess the libs are on the warpath since the 2nd? It all reminds me of a bunch of spoiled kids that did not get their way!

It must really screw with your heads to have you’re a$$es handed to you by a bunch of kazoo players!

(note to self… there I go again coming down to “their” level)

November 8, 2010 at 8:30 p.m.
Nagoc said...

First - I don't recall acerigger ever claiming his 12:25 post to be his words. So what if it is cut & pasted? It's still true, wherever it came from.

As for Francis, it will always be President Obama's fault regardless of what he does or does not do. I'm sure that if he found a cure for cancer and completely eradicated it, Francis would blame him for destroying the health care industry.

I have yet to see a reasoned post from this guy. Same talking points over and over and over. It's like, "Facts? We don't need no stinking facts!"

November 10, 2010 at 12:45 p.m.
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