published Saturday, December 17th, 2011

The End

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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onetinsoldier said...

Wasted money, wasted lives, wasted standing. The real shock and awe is the effect bush and friends had on our own country. I call them repugnants for good reason. They earned it.

December 17, 2011 at 12:09 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Saddam had murdered foreigners, so foreigners had a right to attrite him or put him in the way of attrition. But nation building? "Other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Not that He can be imposed; but we should've insisted on religious freedom, including the freedom for Muslims to become Christians. (The same goes for Afghanistan and Libya.) Governments exist to preserve human rights, says the Declaration of Independence, paraphrasing I Timothy 2. Despite lots of room for improvement, Christian countries tend to be better governed than Muslim countries; so one way to improve Muslim countries is to insist, when we can, that they make room for Christian growth. (Secular countries? North Korea is one of those.)

December 17, 2011 at 12:15 a.m.
John_Proctor said...

Tell me again about the "slam dunk" presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Powell warned Bush II, "You break it, you bought it" but our Dear Leader refused to listen and it cost us over 4000 lives. Oh, and the cost of the war? It will be paid from the oil revenues we will pick up over there. At least that's what Rumsfeld told us. Loved the flight suit picture and "Mission Accomplished" banner on the Abraham Lincoln carrier. Too bad the fighting continued for years after that.

Clay, thanks for reminding me again of how little our so-called leadership paid attention to the lessons of history. Iraq was just another way to spell Vietnam.

And congratulations on winning your latest cartooning award. It is well deserved.

I hear the lemurs gathering now. The howling will start in three, two, one. . .

December 17, 2011 at 12:19 a.m.
hambone said...

Amdrew, get a M-16, helmet and some body armor and go on over and convert those muslims.

December 17, 2011 at 12:35 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

I'm amazed that every republican presidential candidate - except Ron Paul - now wants to invade Iran. These people are chicken hawks cackling about Obama being 'weak' and 'timid.'

I guess they're mad because not one American soldier died when Gaddafi was killed.

I guess they're mad because not one American soldier died when bin Laden was killed.

Here's an article detailing Obama's timidity: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/the-terrorist-notches-on-obamas-belt/

Here's an idea: Next time a politician starts clamoring for soldiers to invade another country and start fighting another war, any authorization for troop diployment must be accompanied legislatively with the re-institution of the military draft and a clear explanation of how we're going to pay for it.

December 17, 2011 at 1:18 a.m.
NorthChatter said...

4,500 lives, 32,000 wounded and $800,000,000,000.00 spent.

4,500 sons and daughters that will never return to their loved one's...32,000 vets, thousands of which will need long term care (which will cost billions more)...and 800 BILLION dollars we will never get back (that could have been used for the betterment of our own country, instead of being flushed down a latrine in the desert)

And for what? A country and region that is now even more volatile than it was when the war started.

But hey, both political parties managed it exploit it in one way or another for their own gain (either by supporting it, or campaigning against it)...which is what it was really all about to begin with. Political and financial gain of politicians. Throw'em all out!

December 17, 2011 at 1:35 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

It's irksome to me to hear some otherwise well-intentioned American comment on how tragic it is that we lost so many American soldiers' lives and suffered so many injuries in that wasted war, yet give not the least mention of the disproportionately HUGE number of innocent Iraqis' lives lost and injuries suffered, as if dark skinned Arabs' lives just don't count for much in the grand scheme of things. And then, there are all the needless deaths from that other war needless war...in Afghanistan. Of course it's sad that so many American soldiers' lives were wasted (and they were indeed WASTED) but the number of Iraqi civilians killed and maimed far exceeds those of our own soldiers. Estimates vary greatly but the minimum number reported has been in the hundreds of thousands, ranging up to possibly over a million. And who killed and maimed all those innocent people? Well, our good ol' "heroes, fighting for our freedom," that's who.

Our soldiers have been lauded as heroes all along and they will return to a hero's welcome but every one of them has the blood of innocent men, women, and children on their hands. They have torn that country to smithereens, have displaced millions of Iraqis from their homeland, have either accidentally killed and maimed or, worse yet, intentionally killed or maimed countless of innocents, and yet we still call them heroes, and they will come home to warm and fuzzy accolades of a job well done. And it was all for a well-known lie. Or if not an outright lie, then the worst case of cherry-picked intelligence gathering in the history of our nation.

Either way, our fighting men and women knew that war to be a misguided wanton act of aggression and yet they kept enlisting and going back for more tours of duty, all the while telling themselves, and being told by the good folks back home, that they were "fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them here." What BS.

I have no respect for those who lack the intelligence or the fortitude to think for themselves, who blindly follow orders based on some machoistic military code of justice, knowingly kill innocent people, and then call that "honor." I have infinitely more respect for the soldiers like Bradley Manning and the ones who have come back, said no to the war machine, and told the truth about the atrocities that we have committed there. Those are the ones who know what honor really is.

At any rate, I'm glad that meaningless stupid stinking war, instigated by war criminal Bush, is finally over. But already the teabagging nitwit Republican chicken-hawks are beating the drums of war, just itching to go full scale into Iran. My god, the insanity.

December 17, 2011 at 5:10 a.m.
woody said...

Did anyone remember to turn out the lights as they left?? Woody

December 17, 2011 at 6:10 a.m.
EaTn said...

The lessons of Vietnam should have been enough to stop the stupid move into Iraq. Of course most of the Iraq political decision makers had better things to do at the time and were not involved in the Vietnam war. Iraq is a prime reason to permanently reinstate the draft which could have prevented this war waged by career soldiers and special interests.

December 17, 2011 at 6:31 a.m.
dougmusn said...

My questions for Clay are these: who's wielding the hammer in this cartoon? And where is the banner hanging?

From Sun Tzu to UBL, yes that one, the nature and purpose of asymmetric war is to get your sworn enemy to do to himself what you would do but cannot. Our costs continue to mount in SE Asia, now approaching US$4T. And at home? From the USA PATRIOT act [Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001] to this week's bullet to the head of habeas corpus, we shred our liberties in a desperate search for an elusive security. In whatever Af-Pak cave this cartoon illustrates, the hammer-wielders smile.

December 17, 2011 at 6:54 a.m.
MTJohn said...

AndrewLohr said...Saddam had murdered foreigners, so foreigners had a right to attrite him or put him in the way of attrition.

Andrew - what about turn the other cheek? Vengeance is mine - I will repay saith the Lord? etc. etc.

What about the fact that we have murdered foreigners, too, starting, but not ending with, a lot of innocents in both Iraq and Afghanistan?

What about religious freedom in this country? What are your regarding the Islamic center in Manhattan? What about the Islamic center in Murfreesboro?

December 17, 2011 at 8:16 a.m.
MTJohn said...

blackwater48 said...Here's an idea: Next time a politician starts clamoring for soldiers to invade another country and start fighting another war, any authorization for troop diployment must be accompanied legislatively with the re-institution of the military draft and a clear explanation of how we're going to pay for it.

Yes and the decider-in-chief's relatives have to be on the front lines.

December 17, 2011 at 8:19 a.m.
MTJohn said...

woody said...Did anyone remember to turn out the lights as they left?? Woody

Not necessary. They still have not been turned on.

December 17, 2011 at 8:21 a.m.
frayne48 said...

Good cartoon, sad but true. If we still had a draft we wouldn't be fighting these stupid wars for as long as we do and the politicians might be a bit more judicious before sacrificing our youth. Check back in a couple of years and see how well off, Iraq is. As far as our current flock of GOP candidates wanting to start a war with Iran, none will be getting my vote.

December 17, 2011 at 8:26 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Andrew... God asked me to tell you to just stop it! Andrew's killing me, He said.
He's roll, roll, rolling on Heaven's floor, laughing His a** off.

December 17, 2011 at 9 a.m.
jesse said...

GOD<HISOWNSELF thinks andrew is a little ODD

if g.b.snr.had let swartzhkof finish the job we would not be talkin about this ANYMORE!!

while we went into iraq under false pretenses it's GOOD what we got done over there!sooner or later saddam had to go!other wise we would be payin $8.00 a gallon for GAS!!lol

December 17, 2011 at 9:05 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I hear the lemurs gathering now. The howling will start in three, two, one..

HEY!! I smell defamation here...

December 17, 2011 at 9:32 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

MUTINY IS NOT AN OPTION

Rickaroo blames soldiers for following orders. Rick, you've obviously never been in combat, never felt threatened, never felt real, genuine, terror.

"Either way, our fighting men and women knew that war to be a misguided wanton act of aggression and yet they kept enlisting and going back for more tours of duty, all the while telling themselves, and being told by the good folks back home, that they were "fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them here." What BS.

What a load of crap indeed, and that's as nicely as I can state it. They kept enlisting and going back for more tours of duty...

You believe everyone volunteered for multiple deployments? For instance, do you think every Nation Guardsman, a married family man with a nice job, became giddy at the opportunity to be sent back to Iraq over and over and over again?

You think everyone couldn't wait to be sent back over and over and over again?

It's too early to be drunk, so I have to assume you are temporarily insane.

Or maybe it's voluntary.

You have misdirected your anger at the wrong people. Soldiers shouldn't be blamed for anything. We made them do the heavy lifting while most of us went about our merry lives blissfully unaware of the horror they were living through on a daily basis.

We here at home never sacrificed. Bush told us to go shopping. About 1% of the American population was directly affected by this war. You should be thoroughly ashamed for blaming the military for anything. They were just trying to survive.

You would have them disobey orders, lay down their arms, or refuse to be redeployed. Great. Each one of those actions are punishable by firing squad, you twit.

You make me want to vomit.

December 17, 2011 at 9:35 a.m.
prairiedog said...

Iraq was buying weapons from North Korea. North Korea has detonated a nuclear weapon. The Iraqi nuclear material was moved to Syria during the 30 day delay caused by Turkey's refusal to let us invade through their territory.

These are all facts. We headed off a nuclear war in Iraq.

Iran is next.

People in this country died from cancer caused by radioactive fallout produced by Russian, Chinese, French and U S atmospheric nuclear weapons tests. "Boom" over there equals agony, loss and expense over here.

And by the way, Rickaroo, those "dark skinned" people allowed a tyrant to take over and threaten the rest of the world. People who want peace must rise up against tyranny, even if it's dangerous, because if they don't, they're just putting off the inevitable consequence of events like the war in Iraq. Downtown Chattanooga is a perfect mini-example of how society breaks down and violence prevails when the people who live there don't take control and enforce civilization on each other.

Some of us are not content to live out our pitiful little lives hoping that nothing bad happens to us, and trusting the rest of the world to leave us alone until we die.

In my experience, very few people who protest against the infliction of order and civilization on an unwilling population are without fault. They fear accountability because they are living outside the law. Yeah, it can happen to you, and the sooner, the better.

December 17, 2011 at 9:59 a.m.
lumpy said...

Ask the people of Iraq what they think. Ask the volunteers who compose our military what they think. Apparently you leftists on here think you speak for all of them. You wouldn't know it from the rants on this thread, or from the liberal media, but I guarantee you our military and the people of Iraq don't share you're view.

You're hypocrites, and if you're guy is in charge then he can do whatever, like the fast and furious scandal, but if he's not you're guy you'll howl like fruitcakes.

I don't care about your opinion, I only care about what the people of Iraq think and what the men and women who served think. Why don't you go to a military base and tell them to their faces that they've wasted their time and their buddies died for nothing.

Twits

December 17, 2011 at 11:03 a.m.
ricardo said...

The war in Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks on 9/11. There was no WMD. We wasted American lives and treasure because Bush wanted an "easy" victory, since winning in Afghanistan was going to be difficult. It turns out that all war is complicated and there are no easy victories.

December 17, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Lumpy - I'm not particularly interested in defaulting to either the military or to the Iraqi people for the purpose of setting U.S. foreign policy. And,I'm not particularly interested in committing American lives and resources to waging war that does not comply with the standards of "just war" - remember, we are a nation founded in Christian values. The war in Iraq did not come close to that standard. You can't possibly wrap it up with enough yellow ribbon to either justify the war or make the claim that we really are serious about supporting the troops who sacrificed for the sake of Bush's failed foreign policy.

http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/files/2011/12/mike1214111.jpg

December 17, 2011 at 11:47 a.m.
potcat said...

Don't forget the media's part in the invasion and attack on the Iraqi people,Bush could'nt have done it without them.

December 17, 2011 at 12:44 p.m.
ricardo said...

Yes, Bush couldn't have done it without feeding them false intelligence, and lying to the American people.

December 17, 2011 at 1 p.m.
ricardo said...

No, Obama wouldn't have been elected without the help of John McCain and Sarah Palin. Poopy-pants.

December 17, 2011 at 1:13 p.m.
potcat said...

No One had as close a relationship with Terrorist than Bush did, you idiot. Ever hear of the Saudi's, bin laden was a Saudi and under Bush on 9/11 a no fly zone was declared in the U.S., but guess what group got permision to fly out of this Country by POTUS, none other than the bin Laden's themselves, two plane loads of them.

December 17, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.
lumpy said...

Listen, lefties, to be critical of Bush is one thing, but to always, desperately try to pump up Obama as anything other than what he is, which is some kind of a wierd party boss, socialist, anti-American mixture, is just a waste of time. He's been friends with and has associated with anti-Americans, communists and terrorist types his entire adult life. The media let him skate and purposely tried to cover up his pathetic and questionable background. Look at how every aspect of the candidates' lives are being explored now as oppossed to Obama's when he ran.

It will always be relevant that he sat in a "church" for 20 years listening to a foul-mouthed, anti-semitic and anti-American creep of a "preacher spew hatred. He was never made to answer for that. The media and spineless republicans just decided he shouldn't be made to answer for that.

He was not vetted, he was allowed to sail along, just like he did his whole life.

December 17, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.
MTJohn said...

JonRoss said...

What was it about Saddam Hussien that the lefties liked ?

Nothing. What was it about Saddam Hussein that the righties liked?

JonRoss said...Look at his long sordid history. He was just a mini version of Hitler.

True. It is also correct that this mini version of Hitler was the product of British and U.S. intrigue in the region.

December 17, 2011 at 2:07 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Bush had intelligence from numeous Counties regarding Saddam and what he may have had in his arsenal. Bush had photo's of sites which Colin Powell presented to several committees. Now I will always want my President to ALWAYS to err on the side of caution. Bush did. If he didn't and the S--T hit the fan he would have been hung out to dry and rightly so. Hind sight is 20/20. The Monday morning quarterbacks came out in force and they are still around, as noted in these posts. Now I heard Oblamea's comments this week about our Counties involvement in the war. Why didn't he say; "Bush lied, people died. Lives for oil. He wanted to get back at Saddam because of what he did to his dad,etc?"

What's our future with the Muslims? Ask what England, France, and other Countries think of them now that they are being over run with them. Look at the familes that you know and how many children they have. Now look at how many children the Muslims have. Do the math. The future does not look good for us and our interests in the middle east and the over running of the Muslim population everywhere. None of our mother's say, "Don't our kids blow up so soon." Yes there are wonderful Muslims that are not radical and respect other religions, but when push comes to shove who's side will they take?

December 17, 2011 at 3:52 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Reply to BW48:

During combat is not the time to question the politics of war. You fight to survive, period. I know that full well. And I cast no aspersions on those who were in service at the time they were called to action, before the evidence was clear that Bush/Cheney et al either lied outright or cherry-picked their "intelligence." But evidence was clear and abundant from early on, especially after the dust had settled from the initial "shock and awe," that Bush deceived us and that this war was a huge mistake. Yet still, even years later, men and women kept enlisting, ignoring the reality of the self-serving intents of the perpetrators of this war. It seems to be the lame-brained notion of many Americans, you included, that even if we are the terrorists in a war, we still gotta "support our troops," even as they kill the innocents.

Bradley Manning was courageous in helping to expose the leaks of the many atrocities that our military had committed, and he has been subjected to torturous treatment in prison and vilified as a traitor. SPC Joseph Darby, the first soldier to report on the abuses at Abu Ghraib, was disowned by his own family and hated by the people in his hometown, forcing him and his wife to go into hiding after his service. Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey, an Iraq war resister, was a Marine for 12 years. He admitted that, during his time in Iraq, he and his troops killed 30 innocent people, including children; and he told of receiving orders from a higher command to open fire on a non-violent demonstration of Iraqis. He described the U.S. invasion of Iraq like “a bunch of pit bulls loose on a cage of rabbits.” He refused to fight any more, saying, “I'm not going to kill innocent civilians for no government... I was taught and raised by parents and relatives that there are certain things you don't do, and killing innocent civilians is one of them.”

There are plenty of others who resisted and said no to this war because they refused to obey orders that would involve killing innocent people, but we hear little about them - we're too busy praising the ones who served "honorably." But it is those who have had the guts to say no and to expose the American inflicted atrocities that deserve the utmost respect. They are the true heroes.

We have a military/industrial/corporatist complex that has this country by the balls and anyone who joins the military today is nothing but fodder for its political and money-making interests. If enlistees are too stupid to see that, well, I refuse to feel sorry for them and I'm certainly not going to praise them for their voluntary participation in a war that they should have had the common sense and integrity to say no to in the first place. If you want to glorify them with your mealy-mouthed, sentimentalized version of patriotism, well, that's your prerogative.

You say that I make you want to vomit. Glad to know I could rattle your cage so thoroughly. Makes my day, thank you very much

December 17, 2011 at 4:44 p.m.
HiDef said...

Lumpy said-

Why don't you go to a military base and tell them to their faces that they've wasted their time and their buddies died for nothing.

Don't bother, we already know.

Thankfully I feel I can now remove my "I served, I saw, I dissent - Iraq Veterans Against the War" bumper sticker.

December 17, 2011 at 5 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

TAKE A BREATH, JR

First, please turn on 'spell checker.' It's tough enough following your trains of thought, as they jump from one set of rails to the next, without having to activate my internal grammatical correction program.

You wrote the right tried to reach an accomodation (sic) with Hussien (sic)... through years of intrigue and diplomacy. then we decided the beast had to go.

Thanks for establishing yet another reason for the War In Iraq. What is that? Number 8? Nine?

Intrigue? Diplomacy? You're taking prescription meds, right? Seeing a whole team of shrinks?

Hussein was our ally in the Middle East, our Sunni buffer between the Shiite nations of Iraq and Syria. Sunnis were, and still are, an Iraqi minority. Hussein's rise to power was brutal, bloody, and lethal. He murdered thousands of his political rivals and his rule over Iraq was iron clad. So knock off the 'tried to reach accord' crap. He reached out to us. He wanted our weapons to keep his people in line. Remember what he did to the Kurd with the chemical weapons we sold him? Well, what's not to like about such a good customer as that?

Hussein was scared to death that the fundamentalist islamic revolution in Iran would inspire the Iraqi Shiites he had been brutalizing for years. He wanted to invade Iran first so we sent him our military advisors, even more weapons, and then stood back and let him invade Iran. Simultaneously, Reagan was brilliantly selling arms to Iraq, too, which made our defense contractors gleeful. Get somebody else to fight your fight while you sell heavy artillery to both sides.

Another point you missed is the logistical nightmare invading Iraq presented. We did not need to get our volunteer military bogged down in the Middle East. Committing hundreds of thousands of troops to crowd control and security detail is a colossal misuse of resources.

Most of all, the Iraq War crippled our military's strategic agility. That war made us vulnerable, not safer.

And because we didn't know how to wrap it up we had to keep sending soldiers back time and time again on multiple deployments. That's brutally unfair to them and their families, and bleeds off our preparedness both literally and figuratively.

But hey! Don't worry. Be happy. Keep believing that preposterous farce of a mission was warranted and wonderful. Everybody believes in something. It's a good thing republicans having your ilk continually voting their ignorant butts into office. They keep proving over and over and over again how completely incapable they are as a political party to govern so much as a game of canasta.

Obama has to clean up the latest GOP SNAFU and all he gets from you guys is, 'Hey, you're not holding the mop right! You aren't scrubbing in the corners! You missed a spot.'

But keep the hilarity coming! And don't forget to initiate 'spell checker.'

If you don't know how to do that ask the nurse.

December 17, 2011 at 5:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

It capitalizes God King or it gets the hose again.

December 17, 2011 at 6:04 p.m.
tipper said...

jonross, do you haved a lot of strange, macabre tatoos and not much hair?

December 17, 2011 at 6:12 p.m.
hambone said...

Andrew, there were more christians in Iraq under Saddam than there are now.

Tariq Aziz, Saddam's right hand man was a member of the Catholic Church and his hands are just as bloody as Saddam's. The Iraq courts have sentenced him to death and the Vatican and Amnesty International have all but stopped it.

History will eventually get around to adjudging the invasion of Iraq as the biggest mistake the US ever made.

December 17, 2011 at 6:40 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

MAN UP Rick, you came down too hard on people who fought over there. I agree that defense contractors have too much influence on foreign policy, Wall Street has too much influence on economic policy, and oil companies have too much influence on environmental policy.

In fact I agree with most of your posts.

If an Iraq War vet remembers his service with pride, I'm cool with that. If he doesn't, I'm cool with that too. If you haven't lived through the shrill terror of not knowing if your next breath will be you last, you'll never get it.

Don't get too giddy over the 'vomit' comment. I occasionally exercise poetic license.

Carry on!

JR, calling somebody a liar is weak. It's what little girls do. If you have a point, make it. If you don't, shut up. Name calling is a waste of my time.

If you're too lazy to spell correctly you're too laze to think correctly.

So prove me wrong. Get past calling me a liar. Tell me where I lied and back it up with facts.

Man up.

December 17, 2011 at 7:52 p.m.
MTJohn said...

JonRoss said...the right tried to reach an accomodation with Hussien (through years of intrigue and diplomacy. then we decided the beast had to go.

They tried to reach an accommodation with Hussien through intrigue. Diplomacy had little to do with it. Hussein had to go as a consequence of "arms for hostages" because it became readily apparent to him that we were trying to play both sides against the middle. He was as much a beast when we helped him rise to power as he was after the relationship with him failed.

JonRoss said...every evil thing that exists in the world is rooted in america.

I didn't say that --- you did. All I did was acknowledge historical facts.

December 17, 2011 at 8:42 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Rickaroo said... During combat is not the time to question the politics of war.

The correct time to question the politics of war is before we commit our troops. In the case of Iraq, we failed to do that.

December 17, 2011 at 8:44 p.m.
01centare said...

AndrewLohr said... Saddam had murdered foreigners, so foreigners had a right t Not that He can be imposed; but we should've insisted on religious freedom, including the freedom for Muslims to become Christians

Americans are so out of touch with the rest of the world and misinformed. Iraq was one of the most secular countries in that region. Even more so than Israel. Yes, it was a typical Muslim country, but Iraq was also home to Christians and a Jewish population, and people basically got along pretty well. That is until the invasion and occupying. Then there's Iran. Iran was one of the first countries to declare the Jewish people a protected class after World War II.

Americans are fed propoganda pretty much the same way some of the seemingly most oppressive countries in the world feed their citizens propoganda.

December 17, 2011 at 9:47 p.m.
alprova said...

John Ross wrote: "I would love to have a drug sniffing dog turned loose in the White House. With Mr. Obama's history of drug abuse, and with nasty people like Jarrett, Jones, Ayers and Axlerod wandering in and out only god knows what unlawful substances would be dug up."

How much more utter crap are you going to post? Now you're asserting that the President uses or has used illegal drugs?

What evidence do you have to back that up?

December 17, 2011 at 9:58 p.m.
01centare said...

blackwater48 said... MUTINY IS NOT AN OPTION Rickaroo blames soldiers for following orders.

Isn't that the excuse Hitler's soldiers used? We were just following orders?

Rick, you've obviously never been in combat, never felt threatened, never felt real, genuine, terror.

If Rick is who I think he is, he's a veteran of the Vietnam conflict(not war/because Congress never declared war in Vietnam}/Another senseless waste of human life for all sides.

December 17, 2011 at 10 p.m.
01centare said...

JonRoss said... I would love to have a drug sniffing dog turned loose in the White House. With Mr. Obama's history of drug abuse, and with nasty people like Jarrett, Jones, Ayers and Axlerod wandering in and out only god knows what unlawful substances would be dug up

You failed to mentioned your idol Bush years of drug and alcohol abuse. Wonder why?

December 17, 2011 at 10:05 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "Listen, lefties, to be critical of Bush is one thing, but to always, desperately try to pump up Obama as anything other than what he is, which is some kind of a wierd party boss, socialist, anti-American mixture, is just a waste of time."

Not for those of us who know the man is nothing of the sort.

"He's been friends with and has associated with anti-Americans, communists and terrorist types his entire adult life."

Such as who?

"The media let him skate and purposely tried to cover up his pathetic and questionable background. Look at how every aspect of the candidates' lives are being explored now as oppossed to Obama's when he ran."

It couldn't be due to the fact that all of what you wrote above is nothing more than rumor, innuendo, and outright lies?

"It will always be relevant that he sat in a "church" for 20 years listening to a foul-mouthed, anti-semitic and anti-American creep of a "preacher spew hatred."

Clearly you are one that has never listened to the entire sermons from which the damning snippets were snatched out of context, misrepresenting every time what the man said.

"He was never made to answer for that. The media and spineless republicans just decided he shouldn't be made to answer for that. He was not vetted, he was allowed to sail along, just like he did his whole life."

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I've read the crap you spew time and time again. You're a broken record. You've never got any evidence to back up a thing, yet you continue to spew and spew and spew.

You're like Donald Trump, who after being embarrassed on national television when President Obama released his birth certificate, which shut him up for several months, took opportunity three days ago on Fox News, to once again state that he still doesn't believe that the President was born in Hawaii.

Ignorance is bliss, and I run across people like you on a daily basis. You're very long with the accusations, but you come up short on presenting any evidence to back up your opinions.

You're right about one thing. Barack Obama sailed into the White House in 2008. Despite all that was tried, people were smart enough to not believe rumor, innuendo, and lies.

He indeed has his work cut out for him in order to clinch the election come next November, because of haters like yourself who still are trying to demean a decent man.

I have every reason to believe that whomever he goes up against once the dust settles on the Republican nomination process, President Obama will rise to the task of dispensing with the B.S. presented publicly by his opponent appropriately.

If the economy continues to improve as it has been over the next eleven months, it will be another cakewalk to a second term, by default.

Americans are consistent about one thing; They usually loathe upsetting a steady apple cart.

December 17, 2011 at 10:29 p.m.
Lr103 said...

And as Americans continue to rip one another apart

Let us take a moment to remember the senseless lives lost on all sides. American soldiers who will never return home to their families and see their children grow up. Wives who lost husbands, and husbands who lost wives. Innocent Iraqis who got caught in the and enemy soldiers as well. Although, there's no official accounting of just how many innocent civilian lives were lost, some place the estimate at anywhere from a few hundred thousand to well over a million.

excerpt/NYDailyNews--The first and last killed in Iraq:

GREENSBORO, N.C. — As the last U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq on Sunday, friends and family of the first and last American fighters killed in combat were cherishing their memories rather than dwelling on whether the war and their sacrifice was worth it.

Nearly 4,500 American fighters died before the last U.S. troops crossed the border into Kuwait. David Hickman, 23, of Greensboro was the last of those war casualties, killed in November by the kind of improvised bomb that was a signature weapon of this war.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/americans-killed-iraq-war-remembered-article-1.993355

December 18, 2011 at 3:59 p.m.
carlB said...

blackwater48 said... MUTINY IS NOT AN OPTION Rickaroo blames soldiers for following orders. Rick, you've obviously never been in combat, never felt threatened, never felt real, genuine, terror.


Reply to blackwater48; You gave a rebuttal to the BS Rickaroo put out as good as it can be explained. The Voluntary Troops for whatever their reasons for joining the Military, had a contract with the Government putting them in a position to follow their given orders. Of course these troops had/have a choice to take other paths if they wanted to break their contracts if they disagree with the "orders" given them. When the troops are place in "harm's way" whether it is right or wrong, the troops have to protect themselves and cover each other's backs.

December 20, 2011 at 11:17 p.m.
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