published Tuesday, December 27th, 2011

Chattanooga city officials call club where nine people shot on Christmas morning a nuisance

The inside of Mosaic where Club Fathom is located remains empty after the shooting Christmas morning where nine people were injured. Local government is considering shutting down the venue.
The inside of Mosaic where Club Fathom is located remains empty after the shooting Christmas morning where nine people were injured. Local government is considering shutting down the venue.
Photo by Jenna Walker /Chattanooga Times Free Press.
LIVE COVERAGE AT 2 P.M.

Follow live coverage of a news conference at Mosaic Church on 412 Market St. pertaining to Christmas weekend's shootings today at 2 p.m. here.

Pastor Tim Reid will read Mosaic's official statement and then will follow-up with questions from the media.

Pastor Reid and Mayor Ron Littlefield also had earlier online chats on August 5, 2009. Transcripts can be read here.

Poll
Should Club Fathom be shut down?
  • Video: Pastor Tim Reid explains Club Fathom
    In an August 1, 2009 interview, Tim Reid, head pastor of Mosaic Church, explained the purpose of Club Fathom, part of the church’s outreach ministry. Mayor Ron Littlefield then expressed concern that visitors to the club were causing problems in area parking lots after hours.
  • Defining Mosaic’s mission
    Following a live online newsmakers chat at the Times Free Press on August 5, Chattanooga Mayor Ron Littlefield and Mosaic Church Pastor Tim Reid discussed whether race is an issue in the city’s efforts to end Saturday night events at Club Fathom downtown.
Prior incidents at Club Fathom:
  • On July 30, 2006, about 500 teenagers were thrown out of the club about 12:30 a.m. They loitered in a nearby parking lot for hours before fights broke out and three people were stabbed.
  • In the summer of 2009, three juveniles were shot in separate incidents in areas near Club Fathom, though police were not sure whether all the shootings were related to the club.
  • In September 2009, Reid removed the "Fathom" marquee from the building. At the time, Reid said the name change didn't mean the youth outreach programs and concerts at Mosaic Church would end.
  • After police responded to 344 service calls between 2006 and 2009 at or near the club, Chattanooga Mayor Ron Littlefield got involved and club operator Reid stopped youth events at the site in the summer of 2009. The events resumed with the start of the school year.
  • In August 2009, Reid said he would file for a business license for his personal landscaping businesses after the Mayor's Office raised questions over his personal finances and those of Mosaic.

Source: Times Free Press archives

A Christmas morning shooting that injured nine people is further evidence that the downtown club where the brawl began is a public nuisance that should be dealt with quickly, city officials said Monday.

Club Fathom has a long history of teen violence dating back to at least 2006 and has faced city ire in the past.

"This place has consistently been a problem and the owners are not addressing the problem," city spokesman Richard Beeland said. "We are talking to the city attorney to see what our options are."

Chattanooga police said nine people -- five juveniles and four adults -- were shot when rival gang members began firing at each other in a crowd of about 400 teens leaving a Christmas Eve party at Club Fathom located in a building run by Mosaic Church on Market Street.

Police believe the Club Fathom brawl, which happened shortly after midnight, led to at least two other incidents, including another shooting near College Hill Courts. Police Spokeswoman Sgt. Jerri Weary said police would not release any additional information about the incident until today.

Police have not released the names of those injured near Club Fathom, but said no injuries appeared to be life-threatening. Police released Sunday the name of 18-year-old Thomas Heffner, who was shot in the hand near College Hill Courts sometime after leaving the downtown melee.

Fliers outside the building advertised a candlelight Christmas Eve service from midnight to 1 a.m., while an online ad billed a "Smash or Pass Christmas Bash," where no ID was required. That advertisement featured a woman in red lingerie and a Santa hat.

On a Facebook posting advertising the candlelight service, Mosaic Church pastor Tim Reid noted the candlelight service ended at 1 a.m., but everyone was welcome to hang out until 2:30 a.m.

It was not clear Monday whether one event or two were held in the building on Christmas Eve. Club Fathom is listed on Mosaic's website as a teen-centered outreach ministry of the church and arts venue. The building has two entrances, one near Cherry Street, and another at 412 Market St. The shooting happened in the parking lot behind the Cherry Street entrance.

Reid could not be reached on Monday and did not appear at home Monday afternoon at an address listed in his name.

A post on Mosiac's Facebook page said, "Our hearts go out to those hurt downtown this weekend! We are still having events as planned, this Friday Concert in the Gallery with Bluesmaster Bob Carty!"

Chattanooga City Council Chairwoman Pam Ladd said the club is a nuisance and public safety concern.

"I'm extremely concerned to hear that yet again we have had a disturbance at that establishment," she said. "Just what I'm seeing in results and outcomes from that establishment, I'm very concerned with the operations there."

Ladd said city officials will study what action they can take against the club. She said such incidents put members of the public in harm's way.

"This shouldn't be happening within their walls. But it certainly shouldn't spill out onto the street and open us all up to danger," she said. "We just cannot continue to have that happen in our downtown -- anywhere in our city."

The establishment's history includes fights, shootings and stabbings following late-night events.

"Certainly what happened the other evening was a nuisance," Ladd said. "And it doesn't appear that this was an isolated incident."

  • photo
    Steve Root, a manager at Panera Bread, speaks to the Chattanooga Times Free Press on Monday about the shooting Christmas morning at Club Fathom. Root said that since the change in ownership a year or so ago, he felt that there was an improvement with the club. He was disappointed to hear about the incident Christmas morning.
    Photo by Jenna Walker.
    enlarge photo

In August 2009, Littlefield told Reid to stop his Saturday night activities or the city would close down the establishment. That order followed a series of late-night fights, shootings and stabbings near the club.

"I told him frankly that I felt like he was running a business masquerading as a church," Littlefield told a Times Free Press reporter at the time.

Several people who work at businesses near Mosiac expressed concern about the shootings, but said the venue provided a needed place for teenagers to hang out.

Steve Root, a manager at Panera Bread, said his two sons used to go to events at the club. The club has had problems in the past, but has seemed quieter in the last year or so, he said.

"I'm really sorry that it happened," Root said. "There are kids from all over -- Signal Mountain, outside the city and urban kids -- that come there. It seems kids just don't behave; their mom and dad don't care like they should."

Root said he moved to Chattanooga in 1979, when downtown was a place you wouldn't venture at night. Now he hopes the latest events won't spread that same message.

"I think the police did a great job in addressing the problem," he said.

Mosaic's website says the organization aims to draw in 50 percent of its funding from hosting in-house events. The venue rents out its space for concerts, parties and the unaffiliated River City Church.

Reid's latest IRS form 990 tax filing from 2009 classifies the operation, called "Fathom, Inc.," as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. It's not classified as a church or religious institution, but rather falls under the category of family counseling and marriage counseling.

Contact staff writer Kevin Hardy at khardy@timesfreepress.com or 423-757-6249. Contact staff writer Mariann Martin at mmartin@timesfreepress.com or 706-980-5824.

Replay today's news conference at Mosaic about the shootings:

Live news conference on Christmas Day shootings
about Kevin Hardy...

Kevin rejoined the Times Free Press in August 2011 as the Southeast Tennessee K-12 education reporter. He worked as an intern in 2009, covering the communities of Signal Mountain, Red Bank, Collegedale and Lookout Mountain, Tenn. A native Kansan, Kevin graduated with bachelor's degrees in journalism and sociology from the University of Kansas. After graduating, he worked as an education reporter in Hutchinson, Kan., for a year before coming back to Chattanooga. Honors include a ...

about Mariann Martin...

Mariann Martin covers healthcare in Chattanooga and the surrounding region. She joined the Times Free Press in February 2011, after covering crime and courts for the Jackson (Tenn.) Sun for two years. Mariann was born in Indiana, but grew up in Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Belize. She graduated from Union University in 2005 with degrees in English and history and has master’s degrees in international relations and history from the University of Toronto. While attending Union, ...

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11states said...

What a crock of poop. This pastor is full of it.

Every other hangout downtown gets taxed on their income and the patrons can drink, and still, no shootings. If you don't check out your band and the people filling up in your "tax exempt teen club" then who is?

What kind of pastor doesn't chaperone his own church events?

The kind that is in it for the money.

And then the facebook comment where he throws out that his heart goes out to those hurt... and in the same breath says everything is still going as planned.

What a guy!

December 26, 2011 at 10:55 p.m.
11states said...

By the way Gucci Mane is a big christian influence in my life... thanks for hosting such spiritual leaders! What a joke.

Taken from news chanel 9...(which, by the way, skips around like a hop scoth player on tv but does well in the internet stories they post)

The only indication we found of a party being held there Saturday was a sign advertising a candlelight service. So, we searched Twitter and Facebook and found several users advertising a 'swag bash' at Club Fathom, and promoting a group called Young Tru Millionaires. We wondered what kind of music would be playing at a club that doubles as a church and advocates for youth. When we listened to it, we heard vulgar phrases, cursing, and references to sex and drugs.

December 26, 2011 at 11:25 p.m.
obviousman said...

11states said... "and the patrons can drink"

It is a dry club. No alcohol is served or allowed to be brought into the club. No smoking is allowed.

December 27, 2011 at 2:20 a.m.
11states said...

"Every other hangout downtown gets taxed on their income and the patrons can drink, and still, no shootings."

I said every other hangout... other bars and clubs have alcohol... without huge amounts of violence.

Obviously you can't read.

If you tie your shoes anything like you quote, you must need velcro.

December 27, 2011 at 3:31 a.m.
fftspam said...

obviousman said... It is a dry club. No alcohol is served or allowed to be brought into the club. No smoking is allowed.. WRONG “we got drink specials all night long. And when I say drink specials … understand... we got two bars for the grown folks.” CLICK for YouTube link

21+ to drink Club Fathom 412 Market CLICK for tnpushers.tumblr.com link

December 27, 2011 at 5:19 a.m.
fftspam said...

Hey obviousman ... when did party promoters start advertising a "dry club" 21 + to drink?
Click on each one of links.. they are party fliers. tnpushers1 tnpushers2 tnpushers3 tnpushers4

December 27, 2011 at 5:50 a.m.
Momus said...

This club needs more security, kids need more supervision and those "11states" lost.

December 27, 2011 at 6:32 a.m.
joneses said...

"In August 2009, Littlefield told Reid to stop his Saturday night activities or the city would close down the establishment. That order followed a series of late-night fights, shootings and stabbings near the club.

"I told him frankly that I felt like he was running a business masquerading as a church," Littlefield told a Times Free Press reporter at the time."

Apparently Ried like others in the community could care less what Littlefield says.

December 27, 2011 at 6:52 a.m.
joneses said...

"Reid's latest IRS form 990 tax filing from 2009 classifies the operation, called "Fathom, Inc.," as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. It's not classified as a church or religious institution, but rather falls under the category of family counseling and marriage counseling."

Mr. Ried,

Could you do a better job of counseling these gang members when they start shooting people? We as a community would appreciate it very much.

December 27, 2011 at 6:55 a.m.
pikeville said...

The fact that these participants were" black" have absolutely nothing to do with a solution. In Portland Or. they have a problem with skinheads. The solution to their problem is not "they are white" When youth are not raised right black or white,what do you expect the result to be a PHD ?. These youth can turn their lives around with the proper guidance and structure. No you can't reach all of them, but the majority can be taught responsibility and the real meaning of respect (NOT FEAR) Some will fall through the cracks and end up dead or in DOC, but the ones that do learn is the solution. If you notice the words taught and learn are being used. What if you had been taught by your parents to hate a person because of their skin color, or because of the color shirt they wore ? Where would you be? Some of these youth "will learn with a feather, others will learn with a sledgehammer." The important thing to the law abiding citizen is that they learn. There is a place that specializes in this type youth and has the highest success rates in the state. Even though they accept the problems the other YDCs don't want. It is one hour from Chattanooga in rural Bledsoe County. Here the youth can be removed from the toxic environment they came from. Life skills,A&D, anger control, moral reasoning, are taught with the vigilance of a war. The people take great pride in their success and great disappointment in their failure. Skin color or affiliation have nothing to do with it. Their recidivism rate ( return to custody) speaks for itself. The new administration in Nashville says there is no need for this place anymore. They say it is worth a 4 million dollar savings to close this teaching and learning environment. I say they are WRONG!!! If you are interested in crime in your neighborhood and the REAL TRUTH. Come to Bledsoe County Courthouse January 3rd at 5:00 pn (CST) and listen to the truth and the correct numbers about Taft Youth Center. This is the oldest employer in this area. They have rehabilitated the worst of the worst for over 90 years. Ask the mother who was in the Times Free Press article last week what she thinks about the way her son was returned. Ask Lookout Valley Football team, Silverdale Baptist, Notre Dame, Whitwell, Oakdale, Harriman what they think about the sportsmanship and respect that is shown every Friday night by the youth the others don't want or can't handle. These youth are the same youth who are shooting up the streets of Chattanooga. The difference is the youth involved in the shooting haven't been taught the life skills it takes to participate in a unsupervised Christmas Party. COME AND SUPPORT THESE PEOPLE!!! THEY MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!

December 27, 2011 at 7:22 a.m.
fftspam said...

Pikeville.. You state... "The fact that these participants were" black" have absolutely nothing to do with a solution." No where, repeat, No where in this article or in any of the comments posted so far state anything about the race of the victims or the perps. Are you trying to influence people by inventing sentences between quotes that you invented? You loose a lot of credibility when you do that.

December 27, 2011 at 8:39 a.m.
chattcitizen said...

true that fftspam, however this has everything to do with them being black. White people don't go clubbin at 1am on christmas day, nor have i heard one report of whites spilling out of a club downtown and shooting people. When the whites are the problem downtown, someone be sure to show me the police reports, until then, we have a BLACK gang problem in town and it needs to be dealt with littlefield.

December 27, 2011 at 8:45 a.m.
fftspam said...

chattcitizen... I am not trying to be PC. Read my other posts about the shootings. I was just trying to point out that this person 'pikeville' goes on what I would call a hysterical lunatic rant that includes nothing about the article referenced above. I have no idea why the Taft Center has anything to with the person(s) responsible for shooting of 9 people outside a building hosting a hip-hop show.

December 27, 2011 at 8:55 a.m.
chattcitizen said...

i couldn't agree more, but i also believe it is an isolated problem in the black community. I haven't seen ms13 here yet and i haven't seen whites involved. It just so happens, again, that black members of our community (if we should even call them that) are drawing guns and shooting downtown.

Chattanooga can kiss tourism dollars goodbye every time this crap hits the news. We spent Christmas morning in Knoxville, and the first thing people said that morning after merry christmas, was did you hear about the shooting involving 9 people in downtown chattanooga. Oh wait, don't you live in chattanooga, what's going on there? Its sad, its embarrassing, and it shouldn't be happening.

December 27, 2011 at 9:04 a.m.
pikeville said...

If you will read the posts in the first article about this tragic incident, all the comments had racial conatations. I am looking for solutions and didn't want this forum to turn into the same as the others. I appoligize if I offended anyone. The bottom line is these youth need to be taught basic moral reasoning, and decision making skills before its to late!!!!

December 27, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
fftspam said...

chattcitizen - we are on the same page. I live close enough to Club Fathom that I can almost hit it with a baseball. My Christmas morning sent text message to friends was' ho ho ho from gunfire alley''.

December 27, 2011 at 9:18 a.m.
fftspam said...

pikeville... thank you.. I agree. ALL youth need to be taught basic moral reasoning, and decision making skills before its to late! Perfectly stated.

December 27, 2011 at 9:23 a.m.
chattcitizen said...

and who do you suggest is going to teach them? clearly not their parents, clearly not their community members, and according to this article, clearly not their church. So here is my suggestion: Littlefield, increase our police budget, beef up our gang task force( which arguably doesn't exist) and get to the root of the problem, GANGS. Spend some money and hire people who have experience with gang eradication. Don't just send regular police officers to a week long conference on gang education and dub them a specialized gang task force. Clearly that didn't work.

If chattanoga expects continued growth downtown, this has got to go. It HAS to go or the city is done.

December 27, 2011 at 9:24 a.m.
MasterChefLen said...

Once again, Mayor Ron Littlefield Missing in Action on the latest part of this issue. Is he looking for a place to exile in when he loses his last court case in an attempt to keep his job?

December 27, 2011 at 9:24 a.m.
pikeville said...

Thank you, fftspam. What TYC has to do with this is that is where the youth responsible will be sent for rehabilitation. There is a proposal to close this facility by the new commissioner. It has been reported this proposal is being made to line her pockets when she leaves office. I do know she is heavily vested in the privitazation business. Taft has the higest recitavism rate of any YDC(return to costudy) If you or anyone else is interested in Youth Crime search taft youth center in this paper. The true facts are in the comments. Again I appoligize to anyone who misunderstood me!!!

December 27, 2011 at 9:36 a.m.
vvt341 said...

I just want to say that ms13 is alive and well in chattanooga. I noticed someone said they weren't here. Also, the chattanooga gang unit guys are much better than many of yiu seem to think. They work hard and are constantly doing something. The problem is that they are undermanned.

December 27, 2011 at 9:40 a.m.

You know what they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We could be spending tens of millions on eliminating the gangs through a police crackdown, or we could have spend money a decade or two ago to deal with this problem a lot sooner with better education systems and offering more opportunities.

What would you rather pay for, a police SWAT team, or a better education system? No disrespect for the law enforcement profession, but anything I could do to make their job less necessary, I think I'll prefer it.

December 27, 2011 at 10:06 a.m.
rolando said...

The funding they need is going to support "public art" and other low-priority crap used to attract tourists [and their money].

Eliminating gang warfare is evidently an even lower-priority in this backwoods-burg administration.

Note: The "public art" has never made drudgereport.com; this shooting has. About which do you think the tourists will read and heed?

December 27, 2011 at 10:08 a.m.
Spicychick said...

It IS a black GANG problem here. So, those of you who want to make excuses, make them. However, it IS a black GANG problem here. As far as Portland, OR is concerned, that sounds like a WHITE SKINHEAD PROBLEM.

Call it what it is and quit making excuses. Also, any person who blames this BLACK GANG problem on lack of opportunities, white oppression, etc., is just full of it. There are plenty of opportunities for blacks and whites if they simply take advantage of them. The fact is that doing well in school is thought to be "acting white" amongst many black kids.

Guess what? If you go to a job interview and say, "ax" instead of "ask," you probably won't get the job. Stop expecting everyone to come down to your level instead of going up to their level.

If things are going to change, the black community has to STEP UP!

December 27, 2011 at 10:13 a.m.
rolando said...

pikeville -- You needn't apologize for anything you have written. Don't lower yourself. Everything you have said is true; if people "misunderstand" your clearly written posts, it is of their own choice, their own failure to read prior reports, their head-burying to avoid truth, and their own doing. Keep up the good work.

Eric Holder [the infamous US AG] said -- Americans are cowards when it comes to addressing racial issues. You have just experienced the "Why" -- being called a racist- overtly or implied -- is a racist's attack method...and they don't use it sparingly.

This inner-city problem will never disappear until the issue of black-on-black crime is publicly discussed, without recrimination or false accusations of racism. It is a fact and needs dealt with.

Taft is the answer because it works -- maybe that's why the new people want it closed...it means less giveaway money for Chattanooga when its citizens learn to become productive.

December 27, 2011 at 10:17 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Notice the article just above this one - that is more like a solution. Pikevile has maade the only intelligent comment in this series.

Chattcitizen , where have you been the last twenty years to say " White people don't go clubbin at 1am on christmas day, ...nor have i heard one report of whites spilling out of a club downtown and shooting people..." don't you read the paper? We read about meth dealers shooting up people, about "white families" getting together to rob banks, about the son of our city attorney shooting up a Bessie Smith festival, etc, etc. College bands hazing members until they are killed. Violence is not a racial thing.

I can't speak for the religious basis or not of Mosaic but it you try to help kids you are going to attract both good and hopefully bad ones, the ones you want to help. If the city wanted to verify its use they could send down some people to sit in.

The comments here do not seem to worry about the problem of violence, just how to keep it out in some part of town they do not frequent. That in itself is pretty racist.

December 27, 2011 at 10:31 a.m.
hixsondave said...

The funding going for "Public Art" may actually be making matters worse. It gives the gangsters better shooting positions.

December 27, 2011 at 10:43 a.m.
HiDef said...

Apparently my first comment was deleted. I'm guessing it had to do with a youtube link of a performance, by a "musician" named Gucci Mane. Gucci performed at Fathom back in July 2011. His performance, which can be easily found on youtube, was laced with the "f" word, "n" word, etc...Not exactly what you'd expect from a venue touting this as it's mission statement:

The Mission Fathom/Warehouse shares Christ’s love with youth through creative programs and mentoring relationships that are culturally relevant and eternally significant.

But it's not a church. I forgot, it's a different type of "non-profit"....yep

Tim Reid, you're a disgrace and I hope they shut your "non-profit" down.

December 27, 2011 at 10:44 a.m.
11states said...

Hey momus, seems like I struck a cord... Since when should a church outreach have to hire security?

I call a spade a spade. A church a church, and a club a club... Seems like you can't figure the difference.

Oh, I'm sure you thought those 11 states who lost were fighting solely to keep slavery as well.

The truth is, every northern major city that I ever visited was a crap hole with tons of gang related problems. I'm sure those cities just need more a security as well.

What a joke.

Also, inquiringmind, your dense aren't you friend.... The article IS about closing down a problem "club". How is it racist to want to shut down a club masquerading around as a church outreach.

I think you and momus should volunteer as security, next time its an all black hip hop party. When white music groups play at that venue no one gets shot. I wonder why?

December 27, 2011 at 11:03 a.m.
11states said...

Don't speak the truth hi def... It just needs more parents and security... These teens need a good hangout. Because they deserve it...

Hi def, thank you for not beating around the bush like some of these idiots.

December 27, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.
frumpster65 said...

Sorry to say this story reached the national news...It just saddens me that any of this crap goes on...trivial arguments that lead to horrific violence??...We only have this one life...we dont get a repeat...wished people would really take that message to heart..

December 27, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.
Legend said...

To understand what's taking place now in Chattanooga you'd have to travel back in time to pre-segregration. Yes, before segregation, there was a time in Chattanooga history, and throughout the south, where people pretty much mingled, intermarried and co-existed as they do today. Then a series of similar events like todays' began to crop up everywhere. Many of which led to lynchings of innocent black men all across the south, many in Chattanooga. Of course, the law has always been involved in bringing these events about. 1906 Chattanooga was not much different than 2011 Chattanooga. The plan was to justify the need for segregation. Roaming black gangs, hoodlums were rumored to be rampant and out of control. This is another case of history repeating itself because no one ever listens.

December 27, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.
11states said...

Trivial is right... Just like the bologna posted by low grade imbeciles on this thread.

December 27, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.
Legend said...

continued:

I'm not suggesting that what we're seeing is not what we're seeing. However, I am suggesting that what we're seeing isn't telling the entire story. That is, There are some cold, powerful and manipulating hands involved here. What's needed is an outside, independent, perhaps even federal, investigation to get to the bottom of who, what, why and expose what's really going on.

Notice When these tragedies* occur the same people jump right in over and over with their same old tired and worned out rhetoric about sh%t this and that down. Round up a few and let's have a good old lynching party, yada yada.

There are good decent people in Chattanooga who need to take a stand, and don't allow Chattnooga to regress to it's 1906 darker period of trying to bring about segregation. It wouldn't be at all surprising that the law, their confidential informants and uppercrusts might be found to be behind the scene triggering a lot of this. Sundowning in Chattanooga was real. It was still going on in certain area of the city as late as the 1960s.

Evil is allowed to flourish when good men (and women) refuse to take a stand.

December 27, 2011 at 11:23 a.m.
11states said...

Um okay legend... Yeah its whiteies fixing to string us up some folks.. lol

December 27, 2011 at 11:27 a.m.
Legend said...

inquiringmind said... The comments here do not seem to worry about the problem of violence, just how to keep it out in some part of town they do not frequent

When you learn the truer history of Chattanooga, and many southern cities, you also learn how and why these situations began. They were specifically geared to make certain areas exclusive to a certain race and class. The law has always been involved in helping to bring that segregation about.

Is it just a coincidence that these tragedies have taken place in areas 1. long targeted for gentrification? 2. In areas where black politicians are in office? There's more to what's going on here than what is obvious to the eye. It's what's taking place behind the scene and who's actually controlling these situations.

December 27, 2011 at 11:31 a.m.

Well this is just sad. I see no real answers or viable solutions from all these posts. Several opinions as always that are possibly the beging of good ideas but no real effort was put into contributing factors. Unfortunately this is way past the point of addressing. You can skim through previous articles throughout the year and find consistent amounts of shooting stories you could pinpoint specific areas of town that they happen in most. The odds of shootings occuring in specific areas of chattanooga is almost a guarantee now. How can we address these incidents when no one within Chattanooga can see past their own agenda. A lot of previous posts reference Littlefield. In weeks past everyone was yelling oust the guy. Now there's no clear culprit to blame and it's Littlefield needs to do something. The owner of the Fathom club is hiding behind Religion or Youth Support or what the hell ever. It's a double standard. No one wants to address the racial issue or The minors running rampant issue. The business should be closed period. We as a city have put more effort into ousting protesters on the court house lawn than we have to address the crime in our entire city.

December 27, 2011 at 11:33 a.m.
Legend said...

11states said... Um okay legend... Yeah its whiteies fixing to string us up some folks.. lol

Just not in the way it was done in the old days, but a lynching is a lynching whether it's carried out by a rope or some other means. LOL/@u

U're either naive, ignorant and just don't understand how otherwise good, upstanding__god fearing can be brought around to take part in evil. Herman Goehrig explained it best. ;)

December 27, 2011 at 11:37 a.m.
11states said...

Hey illusion... You just said you find no viable... Answers. And then you agreed with some of us that you want the club shut down.

The answer is not having venues where degenerates hang out in mass.

December 27, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
hixsondave said...

It's a little too late to help the Christmas Eve shooting victims, but half the Chattanooga police force needs to be on hand at Club Fathom for the New Years event. There comes a point where making the streets safe for people that live in the area should take be the main goal. It just may work better than making excuses.

December 27, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.
11states said...

Um... Okay legend... Chattanooga is on the path to Nazi Germany. I'm sure it was a white guy that initiated the shootings.

December 27, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.
11states said...

Good post hixson Dave.

December 27, 2011 at 11:48 a.m.
Welcome_2 said...

And as cities, even Chattanooga, look into ways to downside its police force in order to preserve jobs, and having become accustomed to a certain way of life and control, we'' witnes more and more seemingly crime and criminal acts taking place. As many cities look to rid themselves of the bad apples within the profession, because they've become a too expensive a liability to keep, there will be many migrating to other cities and signing on in those cities. Bringing with them a lot of old baggage and corrupting those agencies in the cities they migrate to.

December 27, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
11states said...

Yep... This has to be corrupt cops. Those corrupt cops infiltrated the party and started this whole thing.. rolling eyes all around....

December 27, 2011 at 11:55 a.m.
Welcome_2 said...

11states said... Um... Okay legend... Chattanooga is on the path to Nazi Germany. I'm sure it was a white guy that initiated the shootings.

Uh! No__NOT REALLY! But there are similarities. The Jews, gypsies, the small population of blacks who'd married German women during that time and other non-Aryans, were being blamed for all the ills of Germany; high crime rate, poor economy yada yada and the list went on and and on and on.

December 27, 2011 at 11:58 a.m.
maddawg said...

After reading the article and the comments I must conclude: 1. The problem is with the blacks. Duh. Isn't that obvious? This type behavior happens only at black clubs or with their patrons. What happens in Portland with skinheads is irrelevant to what happens in Chattanooga. Our problem is blacks. Theirs is skinhead whites. 2. This is not a problem that the mayor can solve. Its a police and parenting problem. Period. The problem trying to crack down on this problem is the yells of racism if you target the blacks too much.
3. My solution is to saturate the black problem clubs (or white ones if they become a problem) with police and frisk every single person.....every time the doors are open. If they walk in groups downtown, stop them and frisk them. To hell with political correctness. This is a problem that needs to be stopped now, not later.

December 27, 2011 at 12:02 p.m.
11states said...

Don't worry at the rate the welfare states produce bastards, the whites in this country will be the minority and then you idiots won't have stupid arguments to make anymore... It's always the Man's fault.

December 27, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.
Momus said...

Chattanooga has many problems and gangs are one of them. As long as you see this as a 'black/white' things it will only get worst. "It takes a community" and from the tone of these post, Chattanooga is not up to the task.

11states(rolling eyes all around)I see you had to change your name again. What will it be next month "88"?

December 27, 2011 at 12:07 p.m.
Welcome_2 said...

11states said... Don't worry at the rate the welfare states produce bastards, the whites in this country will be the minority

How is that, when there are more whites on welfare or receiving some form of government assistance than there are blacks? Aren't whites producing bastards at an alarming rate too?

December 27, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.
Welcome_2 said...

maddawg... To hell with political correctness

maddawg, it's not about political correctness. It's about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. There can't be one law or laws for one group then a totally different set of laws for everyone else.

December 27, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.
11states said...

So your going to work security then right momus? I haven't changed my name. I'm still here watching you miss the point. A community normally involves lots of different ethnicites, only blacks were there that night.

Welcome2, the minority status for the whites is just around the corner... Whites can't compete with Mexicans and blacks in the reproduction category.

Let me know momus when your working security and parenting these fine citizens.

December 27, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
Welcome_2 said...

11states said.. Welcome2, the minority status for the whites is just around the corner... Whites can't compete with Mexicans and blacks in the reproduction category.

Well, maybe that's because y'all keep murdering your own young. Whites still commit some of the most hideous and heinous crimes in America and especially against your children.

quote from BreitBert:

"FORT WAYNE, Ind. (AP) - "A babysitter and trusted neighbor has confessed that he bludgeoned a 9-year-old Indiana girl to death with a brick then dismembered her, hiding her head, hands and feet at his home and dumping the rest of her remains nearby, police said Tuesday."

picture of evil:

http://img.breitbart.com/images/2011/12/27/ap-p/826e189b-67dc-44e4-8ef8-b3f827ab51db.jpg

picture of his victim:

http://img.breitbart.com/images/2011/12/27/ap-p/8dfb1dfa-c6a3-4f4b-9261-ef4c0b522fda.jpg

December 27, 2011 at 12:37 p.m.
11states said...

Yall lol... I'm married to a korean my children are mixed... Keep stereotyping..here's a quote you can read without out all the hate you twist ...

And, of course, the Census Bureau has projected that by 2042, we'd have a majority minority total population - that is, less than 50 percent whites in the total population.

December 27, 2011 at 12:43 p.m.
Momus said...

only blacks were there that night.

How do you know? Where you there? Did you see the video on tumblr? Still not doing your research. Change the name, but still no substance.

December 27, 2011 at 12:46 p.m.
11states said...

Oh yeah momus I'm sure it was packed full of whites on swag night... And fyi I just started posting.

December 27, 2011 at 1:02 p.m.
hixsondave said...

Welcome: you have to be kidding!! Help me out, what race was the guy downtown that beat the child to death with a belt? What difference does it make, that child is still dead and nine were shot. If your going to make excuses at least try and make them plausible.

December 27, 2011 at 1:08 p.m.
acerigger said...

Many of these kids have no self-respect so they mistakenly think that by being a thug or gangster it gets them "respect". How hard should it be to develop programs to teach self-awareness and respect for themselves and others? Oh wait, with the examples we all see every day,the greedy financial sector and their bought and paid-for politicians,doesn't go very far to teach respect does it?

December 27, 2011 at 1:09 p.m.
skyboxer said...

You CAN help make a difference TODAY by contributing to ShipThemBackToAfrica.com What do you expect from these subhuman neanderthals whose great grandparents came straight from the jungle. It's way past time to start sending them back to their ancestors lands where they'll only have spears to chuck at each other. At least they won't be our society's problem anymore...

December 27, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.
rolando said...

Read pikeville's post about Taft, ace. That's their specialty.

December 27, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.
01centare said...

11states said... Yall lol... I'm married to a korean my children are mixed

Just because you're married to a korean, or anyone of a different doesn't make you any less the racist, it just provide you a greater excuse to seduce even yourself into believing that you're not a racist when you spew your racist rhetoric. Being racially mixed in America doesn't decide which race you're likely to be grouped into. The physical appearance of your children will determine that on any street in America. If they take more after their mother's korean side, and white America is hating on Koreans at the moment, they will be targeted for racial hatred against Koreans. That's just the way the race ethnic thing plays out in America.

Hopefully, you're not bringing up your korean-mixed children to be as racist and bigoted as you are. Otherwise, they'll be in for a rude awakening when others turn that racism on them. Especially if they take more after their Asian heritage than after their pappy side of the family tree.

December 27, 2011 at 2:17 p.m.
01centare said...

skyboxer said... You CAN help make a difference TODAY by contributing to ShipThemBackToAfrica.com What do you expect from these subhuman neanderthals whose great grandparents came straight from the jungle. It's way past time to start sending them back to their ancestors lands where they'll only have spears to chuck at each other. At least they won't be our society's problem anymore

Someone who admits to being a part of the murderous thug Los Angeles RAMPART division has no credibility. I was living in Cali. during your murderous reign of terror. I know what you did.

December 27, 2011 at 2:23 p.m.
11states said...

Actually my wife's best friend who is black is here right now. Shes a great person and I don't see any thing wrong with her at all... although she would never attend a lame excuse for a party like that on christmas eve. Your an idiot 01... and my children will be only indifferent towards morons like you.

December 27, 2011 at 2:31 p.m.

I'm African American and I live in Chattanooga, and I'm sooo sick of the black youth violence in Chattanooga! Even though it pains me to say it, the majority of violence in Chattanooga is black-on-black crime by youth and it makes me so mad, disappointed, and embarrassed. Yes, there are stories of Meth labs and shooting involving white people but those incidents are often isolated to the perp and victim, and don’t spill out into the streets involving innocent bystanders. My husband and I want to open an upscale lounge downtown and we're having the hardest time trying to secure a descent location in the downtown area for our establishment, and not that I could ever really prove it, I do believe part of it is because I’m black and the majority of black owned/operated/ patroned businesses downtown end up in the news for riots, shooting, or stabbings which makes it harder for “good” black people in Chattanooga because we’re all lumped into one group (unfairly), and we only have ourselves to blame as community for that. The black community does need to step up, and that’s not only in Chattanooga, but all over. It’s like the black community crumbled when MLK was killed and we've never had that sense of unity since. Whenever someone tries to broach the topic black people don’t want to hear the truth (referring to the Bill Cosby backlash when he spoke against African Americans) whether its coming from white or black people. To say that black people have equal opportunities as whites in America is untrue but black people can’t continue to use the white oppression excuse for generations on end which unfortunately some do. My parents raised me with the mentality that “your BLACK (and dark skin, not like like Beyonce which makes it even harder in America) plus you’re a Woman so you’re always going to have to give 210% when everyone else (white or light) will only have to give 100%” and that’s just the sad reality we live in America. I’m glad my parents raised me w/ that in mind because it has helped me succeed thus far and will continue to do so in the future at almost anything I put my mind to. Unfortunately not all kids grow up with loving parents which is where the black community needs to step in when raising our own and take care of our own and not be afraid or feel like a “sale out” when we condemn each other’s actions. Fathers are needed in the home, women need to choice your spouse’s better, and we need to revive the “Black is Beautiful, Strong, and Proud” mentality we had.

December 27, 2011 at 3:06 p.m.
11states said...

Nice post ! Openyourmind hit the nail on the head. She sounds just like my wifes friend intelligent and respectful.

December 27, 2011 at 3:27 p.m.
hmgreen said...

@plsopenurmindb4uspk You are an amazing woman with a wonderful mind and ethic. I wish that so many others (black and white) were raised with your kind of integrity. You do those who came before you proud!!! Sorry but this is not a good place for 'kids to hang out'. At that time of the night they should be at home. Parents should be present. In this neighborhood there are good kids but there are even more kids who are out to infect them with bad influence. It does not matter if it is an athletic program, christian program or even a book club, there will be the thugs hoping to cause trouble. As a parent I can not imagine letting my teen go to that 'club'. I will give the benefit of the doubt and say that their intentions may have been good but obviously the wrong crowd has thrown that good intention out the window. It is now too much of a risk now.

December 27, 2011 at 4:02 p.m.
01centare said...

11states said... Actually my wife's best friend who is black is here right now. Shes a great person and I don't see any thing wrong with her at all.

We knew it wouldn't take long! Bring out the violins! Break open the champagne!!! 11states wife has A black friend! Wow!!

"I see nothing wrong with her at all." That statement alone is racist. It's also arrogant. As if your saying, you're so superior that she should feel honored to a friend of your wife. Keep trying, though.

plsopenurmindb4uspk said... I'm African American and I live in Chattanooga, and I'm sooo sick of the black youth violence in Chattanooga! Even though it pains me to say it, the majority of violence in Chattanooga is black-on-black crime by youth and it makes me so mad, disappointed, and embarrassed

And that goes for you to. Don't feel mad, sad and embarassed. There's more to what is going on {trigger-points} than you could possible ever know. Hopefully, if you really are black, it won't take another two, three or even four generations to look back and reaize, "YEAH! We should have known! This was a well thought out plan all along."

@plsopenurmindb4uspk, see how 11states and pmsgreen are patting you on the head as if you're their cute little puppy? patronizingly insulting! Such arrogance

December 27, 2011 at 4:12 p.m.

All "Club Fathom" events should be shut down!!! That's a given I feel like, although there are other things under the same roof that are great for the community and for the teens of Chattanooga! The warehouse venue (www.warehousevenue.com) is an amazing place that i have been to a number of times, also River city Church and Mosaic church both meet there, and both are filled with great folks. Also are there not laws that say that a non profit organization cannot serve or sell alcohol?? I think so!

December 27, 2011 at 4:17 p.m.

Thanks hmgreen :)

December 27, 2011 at 4:19 p.m.
11states said...

I have known my wifes friend for 14 years. She is a great person. A strong proud black woman. Not a cowardly conspiracy theorist hiding behind a keyboard and ranting about irrelevant nonsense... What a tool. After you told the only person who came on here that is black and not in denial that it goes for her too.... Your an idiot 01...

December 27, 2011 at 4:23 p.m.

01centare .....The day I take advice from you or listen to anything you say will be a cold day in H*LL. No one is patting me on the head, I'm just not blinded by stupidity and place blame on anyone/everyone that isn't black for things we need to own up to. And you've completely proven my point 01centare, if a black person speaks out against other blacks they become the enemy which is one of the MAIN, out of numerous problems our community has.

December 27, 2011 at 4:35 p.m.
wxguy23 said...

Chattanooga Parks and Recreation is being proactive. Have you seen the programs they are offering inner city TEENS in their Prevention and Youth Development Services? They have actually spoken to teens asking how they can be heard. Seriously, check it out. http://www.facebook.com/notes/chattanooga-parks-and-recreation/fighting-back-parks-and-recreation-offering-inner-city-teens-a-positive-choice-i/335423656470924

December 27, 2011 at 4:35 p.m.
11states said...

You know 01centare let me know if you would like to go out for a drink sometime.... Just name the time and place. Maybe hms green would like to join as well?

December 27, 2011 at 4:36 p.m.
sigmtngolf said...

Well... Everyone can debate whether or not its a black/white thing, a gang thing, or whatever they want but it all boils down to the Mosaic "Church" is a sham. I dealt with that place for 2 years and witnessed more than enough to know that this place isnt as it seems. Tim Reid might as well be an out of town owner. He is never there and never answers his phone if there is a problem with his establishment. Which is always very convienent for him if something goes wrong. He manages to always keep his distance so he can always save face and act like he cares when the violence breaks out. I have dealt with his "clientel" and none of these youths seem to be looking for salvation. Where someone needs to shine the spotlight is on the landlord of this building. He is an attorney located just through Jacks Alley. Its amazing how a landlord lets a tennant act like this and doesnt give him an eviction notice. Unless there is something in it for the landlord. Someone probably should take a look at his tax returns not that cash under the table is ever included but he has his hands in this as well. At worst case, he should feel compelled to provide his other tennants a safe place to lease. Ask Qdoba, how many problems they have had and never gotten satisfaction from the landlord. How do you think Tim Reid managed to get this nightclub liscensed as a church?? Good attorney maybe?? I encourage everyone to take a look at Tim Reids facebook page. He oozes arrogance in his latest post as he claims "I've often been accused of having “too dangerous” of a church. I believe the church is “too safe". How in the world do you make such a comment hours after 9 people are shot in your own establishment? Tim Reid is nothing more than a wolf in sheeps clothing. If this nightclub isnt shut down as it should have been years ago the city has done its citizens a complete injustice.

December 27, 2011 at 4:39 p.m.
11states said...

Plsopen .... Keep it up! Your posts are insightful and well written...thank you for sharing. And even more than that thank you for putting the resident board moron in his place

December 27, 2011 at 4:42 p.m.
11states said...

Siggolf Great post... Agreed with what you said... And I can't believe an attorney would hide something like this....

December 27, 2011 at 4:47 p.m.

No problem 11states, I've dealt with people like 01centare all my life and sigmtngolf you made some really great points as well.

December 27, 2011 at 5:02 p.m.
sigmtngolf said...

I probably should have added that Tim Reid payed no rent or at the very most pennies on the dollar per square foot on that space when I dealt with them. Begging further speculation as to why the owner of a building especially owned by an attorney wouldnt collect rent or way way below the market value rent on a tennant. When has an attorney ever done anything for free??

December 27, 2011 at 5:20 p.m.
01centare said...

plsopenurmindb4uspk said... 01centare .....The day I take advice from you or listen to anything you say will be a cold day in H*LL. No one is patting me on the head,

Yes they are! Go on, keep being a good little lap dog. Don't worry, as soon as you say something your present supporters don't agree with, they'll throw you under the bus just like they've done others in the past. arf! arf!

December 27, 2011 at 5:22 p.m.
01centare said...

11states said... I have known my wifes friend for 14 years. She is a great person. A strong proud black woman. Not a cowardly conspiracy theorist hiding behind a keyboard and ranting

Aren't you doing the same thing you're accusing me of doing? That is hiding behind your keyboard, with a screen name and shouting out senseless, baseless, bigoted, derogatory remarks about something you know very little to nothing about?

pot/kettle anyone?

December 27, 2011 at 5:26 p.m.
01centare said...

11states said... You know 01centare let me know if you would like to go out for a drink sometime.... Just name the time and place. Maybe hms green would like to join as well

Thanks, but no thanks! I enjoy my African-American, Asian, Latino, Muslim, Iranian, Iraqi, Afghani etc. etc. friends. Having pretty much lived all over the world, and having met people of many races, dialects, religions, it's really eye opening to see just how much bigotry, intolerance and racism can exist in such a small town as Chattanooga. We're a group of individuals of different colors, religions and with different views. We see the problems in Chattanooga for what they're worth. The ones who aren't in the U.S. I've translated and forwarded all the bigoted and insulting postings here. All have responded that they didn't realize America was such an intolerant country.

Having pretty much traveled all over the world, most of you might just be surprised to find that other countries are actually much more diverse and tolerant of others than America in many aspects.

It's also eye opening to see such a bitter, self hating person as plsopenurmindb4uspk who obviously hates her own race. Other African-Americans have often told me and our United Nations group of friends about fellow African-Americans such as plsopenurmindb4uspk. But until reading her postings here, I honestly didn't fully appreciate what they were try to say.

Go on! Keep hating. Keep kicking your own down the road, plsopenurmindb4uspk. You make the slavemasters proud!

December 27, 2011 at 5:42 p.m.
328Kwebsite said...

Perhaps we should have the courage to face the nuisance of reality in order to build a better crop of men to lead all of our people into tomorrow.

We have seen a steady stream of complaints about where black people gather in the nice sections of downtown. We have seen few or no invitations to promote an interracial customer base in our downtown areas, excepting The Bessie Smith Strut.

We need 364 more days a year of being nice to our neighbor regardless of race. The Strut, by itself, doesn't cut it.

If we disapprove of this one pastor's efforts, then where is our own, better example? We don't have one to show because very few people have put forth any effort at all. Instead, we criticize and complain and then wonder why things never change for the better.

We should stop running away from these problems. Advocating shutdowns and pointing blame at others doesn't build a solution. Building a solution is within our own power. All else is just complaining.

There were 400 people at this club. On a typical Saturday night, we see thousands of people downtown. Yet, we continue to segregate ourselves by race and ethnicity and affluence. Those boundaries are mostly meaningless because our city is in dire economic circumstances and we all need each other to build our way out of our current situation.

In general, we should bet on the pastor and his church. And, we should bet on anyone else who makes any substantive commitment towards doing anything that helps our young people and that helps break down our unnecessary race and ethnic barriers.

Bet on the people who are trying to do what's good. They'll fail often, but we need every success in the correct direction that we can get.

Man up and show more courage than just insulting people. We have had nine of our own citizens shot. In the long run, whatever it was that caused those events will seem unimportant. We need to take the long view and have the courage to decide in favor of what is generally right.

Saying no to what we don't like will only avoid, not gain, something. We need to concentrate in favor of what's good.

What do we want to achieve? Instead, we are immediately focused on what we want to avoid. Whenever any problem comes up in a nice place that's frequented by many blacks, we have some people in the community who reflexively insist on having the place shut down. We are long since past seeing that type of decision as an effective public policy.

We should show concern for those who were wounded. We should exercise rational and emotional leadership for the whole city. We should continue to decide in favor of leading our young people into doing what's right.

December 27, 2011 at 5:45 p.m.
BravesDave said...

Youth of this ILK are the future of this country. Not a pretty picture, is it? Keep on throwing out the chants of hate, disrespect and woman-bashing.

December 27, 2011 at 6:07 p.m.
328Kwebsite said...

We should offer a significant tax break to the downtown business who makes the most substantive effort in attracting a multiracial crowd to an day and night long event without violence.

A one-time tax break could be a substantial reward: how about an average month's worth of rebate, based on the previous year's filings?

The event could be as simple as being open for business during common retail sales hours.

Let's see who can use their commercial standing to do better at simply attracting and serving an audience than we saw downtown on Christmas Eve. And, then let's reward them for daring to be a good example.

If our city leaders had made a proposal such as that, I think they would have been on a better track. Instead, we heard complaints and blame from them. I thought Republicans loved tax breaks. Well, let's see them try to use one to do good for a change.

Put our tax dollars where our desire is: offer a significant tax break to city businesses who can do a better job of attracting and peacefully retaining multiracial business for teens in a 24 hour period.

Let's see what you've got, Fat Kats. Can you compete?

December 27, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.
macropetala8 said...

@"We have seen a steady stream of complaints about where black people gather in the nice sections of downtown. We have seen few or no invitations to promote an interracial customer base in our downtown areas, excepting The Bessie Smith Strut

Not to worry. At some point Bessie Smith and the strut will become white. If they're not successful at making that change, then they'll pull out the old dirty file on old girl Bessie Smith and destroy her too. Replacing her with a fairer blues singer.

@"We should stop running away from these problems. Advocating shutdowns and pointing blame at others doesn't build a solution. Building a solution is within our own power. All else is just complaining."

Some people just don't get it! Today it's Club Fathom, tomorrow or the next day, next week, next year it will be something, somewhere else. The truth is the well to do to the ultra wealthy returning to that area don't want any or very few blacks in the area at all. Unless, that is, they're working at one of the many restaurants, in the kitchen preferrably, in the area. In other words, out of sight, out of mind. Therefore, no matter where blacks show up and these returners decide to reclaim there are going to be problems even if they have to create them.

Sundowning is being practiced in 21St century Chattanooga. Remember, back in the day, when it was going on even the victims accepted it as just the way things were suppose to be. It felt normal to them and to everyone.

December 27, 2011 at 6:15 p.m.

Choosing to disregard anything 01centare said....I agree with you 328Kwebsite 100% about "We have seen few or no invitations to promote an interracial customer base in our downtown areas", and that should be changed HOWEVER black people (the one's involved in the violence) don't do themselves any justice for our cause when everytime we get together in large groups there is a huge street brawl or shooting! Even in ATL, the largest black populated city in the US (other than Memphis which don't even get me started on Memphis) there is less black crime, and we should be nice to our neighbor regardless of race everday, if the pastor is trying to provide a location to include people from various backgrounds then he needs to do more to protect his customers that go there to celebrate, not destroy, which seems to me (personal opinion) more could be done. And speaking personally, I try to get involved with my community and even tutored math/science/reading at Orchard Knob, volunteer at shelter, etc, not trying to toot my own horn but I also don't want to come off as complaining but not adding to the solution. Bottom line: Chattanooga is everyone's city and it's everyone's problem regardless of race if we want to make it a safer place for our residents.

December 27, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.
Lr103 said...

What especially some African-Americans don't seem to get is, no matter what you do or how well behaved your youth are, there are some people who just don't want them in areas they are migrating back to from the suburbs. The law and laws follow the power and money. They have the law on their side. Even if a disturbance has to be created to justify banning them from the area, a disturbance will be created.

In my younger days there use to be a club in the downtown area on Chestnut Street in a hotel righ adjacent to the old, now torn down, Greyhound Bus station. My daughter worked there. My friends, African-Americans and others sometimes patronized the business. When too many African-Americans showed up my daughter told me that management often instructed the workers to do anything, from playing country music to whatever it took, to run them off. Even going as far as to have friends who were patrons to start a fight or use racial slurs to get the African-Americans dander up.

Who's to say what is actually going on to trigger some of these disturbances? Only a few short years ago, when they were more openly hostile against the homeless, African-Americans and the poor, they let it be known the only way they would consider moving back into the inner-core of the city {inner-city} was that only if the mayor ran the poor and homeless off. They even went as far as to make suggestions that the homeless be rounded up and dumped at the stateline. That the poor "moves often anyway." So they didn't mind uprooting them too and tossing them at the stateline along with the homeless. These were their actual suggestions in 21ST century Chattanooga. They only began to pretend to be more compassionate about it when they realized they were coming across as just too mean spirited, un-American and un-Christian. Now, if even African-Americans refuse to see there's more going on here than what is obvious, then I guess there truly is no help. I believe an independent, perhaps even federal, investigation needs to get underway to expose what's really behind all these violent outbreaks, and strange cars pulling up shooting people going about their daily business then the cars seem to vanish into thin air. These facts are nothing new. They're as engraved in the darker bowels of Chattanooga and southern history as slavery, Jim Crow and segregation. There are still individuals out there silently shanting TWO, FOUR, SIX, EIGHT___WE'RE STILL DETERMINE NOT TO INTERGRATE! I'm not African-American, but there are many who are not and don't care for the direction Chattanooga is attempting to take.

December 27, 2011 at 7:28 p.m.
11states said...

Honest question?

What's wrong with the aquarium? Or the movies? What about bars downtown...you know the "real ones" . What about coolidge park? The mall? None of these places are specifically geared towards one ethnicity ...some geared toward money, some publicly funded... What do you guys suggest to spread ethnic diversity? What really makes people get together is common intrests not just color. But I have no intrest in associating in a culture surrounded by negative messages and influences(i.e. most rap music.. negative movies and bad role models.) I'm not trying to lump all blacks into that culture but teens are influenced easily. The school system was integrated fully by the county-city merger, and white people that could afford to send their kids to private schools or afford to move, did. How do you police the greater morality? I just want to know what else black people could possibly have, to feel equal? By the way, modern hip hop sucks... I miss James Brown, Al Green, the list goes on and on? Music has always been the universal language... But the vomit modern African American "artists" spew is nothing I want a part of...nor in my childrens lives. Things have to change within the black culture, how is that going to happen?

December 27, 2011 at 7:28 p.m.
rolando said...

Miss Openurmind...ever think about running for City Council? Or maybe Mayor? If I lived in the city you would have my vote.

December 27, 2011 at 7:55 p.m.
328Kwebsite said...

What are we going to do for these families who have a young person who was shot?

December 27, 2011 at 8:44 p.m.
328Kwebsite said...

What care and attention do we provide for the police officer and all of those other people in the area whose lives were in danger?

December 27, 2011 at 8:51 p.m.
Lr103 said...

11states, you forgot to mention heavy medal music. That brings about a lot of violence in young white culture. We hear about the black rap and violence its allege to promote. We never hear about some of those RAVE parties, heavy medal music where a lot of white youth hang out, pop pills, drink, drug it up. My friends and I were wondering if that's where that young white boy was leaving when he slammed his camaro into that house and tree less than a month ago, killing his friend over there on Tennessee Ave in St. Elmo. Rumor is there are some RAVE parties that's been going on in that part of the town where primarily white kids from good families hang out.

The report said the driver of the camaro was intoxicated and perhaps going at speeds up to 70mph in a 30mph zone. Haven't heard anything else on that one. No arrest made or anything. He must have some kind of connections either with CPD or someone for there to have not been any mentioning of that since, and no arrest has shown up anywhere. Seems to have completely disappeared off the radar.

December 27, 2011 at 8:56 p.m.
lookinfour said...

Can't ever recall in Chattanooga a bunch of metal heads getting together followed by 9 people being shot, officer shooting his gun, and another shooting just down the road. Just hasn't happened. Don't ever recall shootings during or after a white Rave party either. Nope. Actually don't recall metal heads making the news for just about anything lately.

December 27, 2011 at 9:13 p.m.

Lr103

they have other parties there that do consist of 98% white folk in the electronic music scene and usually serve alcohol. Chances are that is where the guy was..Club Fathom aren't putting on these events, its always an outside promoter renting the facility..but the venue still has to take some responsibility for that! As far as heavy metal music, there is a venue called The Warehouse that is across the hallway, they host all ages concerts and it is doing a great job of providing a safe place and allowing bands of all genres to perform! They have been there for a year, never have the cops been called for an incident with The Warehouse.

December 27, 2011 at 9:23 p.m.
Lr103 said...

lookinfour said... Can't ever recall in Chattanooga a bunch of metal heads getting together followed by 9 people being shot, officer shooting his gun, and another shooting just down the road.

Maybe not so much in Chattanooga as elsewhere. But brutal fightings, beatings and even killings are very much a part of the heavy metal music scene . World known American writer and Investigative journalist, Dominque Dunne, had a daughter who was murdered, beaten to death, by a diehard follower of heavy metal music. Prior to her death there was evidence of severe domestic violence, and other troubles attributed to heavy metal followers. And of course, wherever there's heavy metal musich, there's also heavy drug use, abuse and drinking involved.

December 27, 2011 at 9:35 p.m.
lookinfour said...

You're talking about isolated cases. Not rampant, concentrated nearly everyday shootings and stabbings. That is what this is about. The nearly daily, Chattanooga, violent crime. Yes, I understand that crazy white guys do stupid and horrific crimes all over this country. Again, this thread is about the 9 shootings on Christmas eve in Chattanooga and the shooting just down the road. You related these crimes to heavy metal crimes. That's not relevant because we don't have a widespread heavy metal crime spree going on in Chattanooga. We don't have widespread stabbings and shootings in the Rave community.

December 27, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.
jdawg72 said...

Ltr103 Why must you try and deflect the actions of that culture upon the white people? Seems you are a self loathing Reverse Uncle Tom. I will tell you this, metal heads havent destroyed the quality of life in every major city in the countries they abide. They havent made their own neighborhoods as dangerous third world countries. Ask people who have traveled the world what culture they find the most rude, violent and parasidicic. You will get an answer almost universally "American Black Ghetto Gangstas"., Parasites they are and are one of the main reasons this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Quit hating yourself Uncle Tom

December 27, 2011 at 11:05 p.m.

@ 11states …To answer your question, there’s nothing wrong with the Aquarium, movies, or Coolidge park, even the mall, however when it comes to downtown attractions there isn’t a more diverse/multi-cultural mix of business. Go to Atlanta for example and you’ll see Arabic theme venues such as Abiza, then Nashville (Country Capital) you have jazz clubs like B.B. Kings and other urban restaurants. You are right that common interest influence people to patronize with specific establishments but there could be more, in fact the only somewhat “ethnic” themed/referenced business directly downtown would be Sugar’s Ribs (somewhat). To spread more ethnic diversity I would recommend opening businesses that offer more artist outlet for African Americans, ex: Poetry/Slam club, Jazz (real Jazz) Lounge, Upscale Soul Food restaurant, Adult (21+) Soul/Blues Bar or club, and the list goes on and on. And black people, once these esctablishments are open don't ruin it but having stupid shoot-outs and gang violence.

There are so many different facets of African American culture that are positive but unfortunately you have to look hard to find them because it’s not marketed as much as the booty-gyrating, gold-teeth wearing, pants-below-your-butt stereotypes you see on the television, news, and media. I agree that the majority of “hip hop” promoted does suck, especially when you hear stupid songs like “do the stinky leg” and all that other garbage, BUT there are plenty of R&B/black artists out there with real soul and positive musical talents if you open yourself up to look for them and not assume all hip hop is the same: India Arie, Caroline Bailey (not sure if I spelled her name right), Anthony Hamilton, Heather Headley, and even LOCAL artists DerMario Harris and Isaiah Brown.

(http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/nov/29/29e-teen-duo-travels-far-afield-spreading-songs/?entertainment)

Things do need to change in the African American community and the community as a whole but that change takes everyone, even if you’re not within that ethnic group to be willing to communicate about race relations even if it makes us uncomfortable but do so in a tolerant, respectful way with ears, minds, hearts open.

@ Rolando, thanks for the vote! Don’t know if I’d make a great city official but would love be a voice for others.

December 28, 2011 at 10:41 a.m.
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