published Saturday, February 26th, 2011

The Supporter

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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mountainlaurel said...

Yes, fat cats love the great taste of plump little tea-mice.

February 26, 2011 at 12:24 a.m.
canarysong said...

They will, indeed, be eaten along with the rest of us as soon as they have served their purpose.... Must be that the dangling tea bags are obscuring their vision.

February 26, 2011 at 12:27 a.m.
hambone said...

I wonder how many of the Teabaggers really know that the fattest cats of all, the Koch brothers are the ones who started the tea party?

February 26, 2011 at 12:55 a.m.
Francis said...

another clunker from a democrat party foot soldier.

unfortunately for you libs, the tea party is viewed much more favorably than the fat asses throwing tantrums in wisconsin, ohio and every else..the fat asses being the fat cat state workers who feel everyone else has to sacrifice but them during this crappy economy...

nobody likes a cry baby and nobody likes somone who runs away and hides when they don't get everything they want......you dems are looking really bad right now...really, really bad....

February 26, 2011 at 12:55 a.m.
Francis said...

how many "tea baggers" give a rip........or anyone else, for that matter..except concipiratorial minded liberal wackos........

how many of you lefties know george soros, a foreigner and anti-american, has dumped millions into the democrat party.......? all of you...and it doesn't bother you. now that 's shocking.

February 26, 2011 at 1:03 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

I think many “Tea Party” supporters are regular everyday folks who have sincere political differences with Democrats in general and President Obama in particular. I respect anyone who has the courage to stand up for his or her convictions.

But as Bennett’s cartoon suggests, those regular people are supporting the billionaire Koch Brother’s moneymaking scheme to eliminate oil industry regulations. There’s a new term for Kochs and those of their ilk: Pollutocrats.

From New Hampshire yesterday (2-25-11) Brad Smith filed this report:

“Fueled by the carbon pollution giant Koch Industries, Tea Party Republicans in New Hampshire are attempting to scuttle the state’s involvement in the region’s successful climate program. Robocalls from Koch’s Americans for Prosperity group flooded the state over the weekend in support of a bill that would repeal participation in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, which has cut greenhouse and other pollution and created 1,130 jobs as a result of energy efficiency benefits.

“On Wednesday, the state’s overwhelmingly Republican House of Representatives voted to support HB 519 by a nearly party-line vote of 246 to 104...”

Since I can’t believe that anyone would knowingly be pro-pollution I have to conclude that some of these well-meaning “Tea Party” activists have been duped.

Of course some of these same well-meaning people still insist that someone who quit in the middle of their first term as Governor of Alaska because, in part, of overwhelming media scrutiny, has the temperament to handle the Presidency.

February 26, 2011 at 1:17 a.m.
acerigger said...

Tea-party flim-flammed? no way!!

February 26, 2011 at 2:13 a.m.
jimbob said...

Seems like to me that Francis is the biggest cry baby on here. Francis would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

February 26, 2011 at 6:39 a.m.
EaTn said...

The headline news today reveal the meager economic recovery is being built mostly on low paying jobs. What will it take for the average citizen voters to wake-up and realize that the politicians and fat-cat lies are sending them deeper into our poverty mire?

February 26, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.
fairmon said...

Maybe we need another unelected empowered czar to stop this foolishness or expand the scope of the 32 already appointed? Congress could refuse to fund them but they don't. They could at least be subject to the same approval process as others but they aren't and congress doesn't insist on it, wonder why?

It isn't the president or governor's that are making decisions based on lobbyist and special interest groups but congress and state representatives. The president or governors can propose anything but do very little without congress approval and funding. So, who is defending the fat cats? Both parties defend their favorite fat cat while the tax payers have no "fat cat" acting on their behalf. Both parties do their prepared sound bites and memorize their talking points with both using jobs, jobs, jobs as a mantra but neither outlines a plan to increase demand for American made products and lasting employment. The number of office holders with real world business experience is frightingly low. Anyone managing a business with less than 1000 employees and with no government contracts hasn't actually had business management experience. Many businesses have failed when they put a college educated MBA or accountant in charge of running the show. How many lawyers have been successful in any business other than a law firm? Check out the credentials of those elected and appointed.

February 26, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
khargis said...

do any of you democrat party thralls really know anything about the koch brothers, or are you just parroting the current talking points?

david koch ran, in 1980, as the libertarian candidate for vp, and is still quite vocal in his support of socially liberal policies (e.g. gay marriage & the legalization of recreational drugs).

they have money because their father developed a thermal process to more efficiently refine petroleum, and both followed in their father's footsteps, earning degrees in engineering from MIT.

they oppose authoritarianism because, after their father was prohibitted from using his refinement processs in the U.S. (due, some say, to large oil companies paying the courts to rule that his process infringed on patents that didnt exist), he went to russia to perfect the process. during the time their father was in russia, he witnessed communism at work, and practically every scientist with whom he worked was "purged".

because of this, he raised his sons to have a healthy dislike & mistrust of leftist ideas, and over-reaching government.

they use their fortune to promote ideas in which they believe, like liberty, and to oppose contrary ideas.

whereas clay, and many other democrats think "more government" is the answer to practically every problem, the koch brothers see "less government" as the answer. i tend to agree with the koch brothers.

you should really take a closer look at the people your leadership is trying to demonize.

February 26, 2011 at 9:39 a.m.
Francis said...

jimbob....you told me to shut up once...well, you don't have the cojones to make me do that.

do you? so, be quiet.

the world is revolting against the idea of bigger, more, intrusive and nanny state governments.. against dictators and authoritarians people are sick of getting pushed around and threatened....obama doesn't get it..neither do you libs........while the rest the world craves freedom and personal liberty, you libs, led by obama, want less and want more intrusion and control by the government.

February 26, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.
MTJohn said...

One Clay cartoon is worth an entire Thomas Frank book!

February 26, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.
tderng said...

well I see that the Wisconsin flee party hasn't returned yet. At least during the dark years the Republicans came in and did their jobs. They didn't throw a temper tantrum like some 8 year old and run off,I wonder if their mommies are in Illinois so at least they can get a bedtime story about some mythical place where every person gets what they need from a huge government that magically makes enough money to feed,clothe, and house all the little princes and princesses.

February 26, 2011 at 10:31 a.m.
EaTn said...

khargis said in reference to Koch: "they use their fortune to promote ideas in which they believe, like liberty, and to oppose contrary ideas"

So you think that using fortunes to buy politicians and massive media to influence voters is our "liberty" way of life?

February 26, 2011 at 10:33 a.m.
librul said...

Hmmmm - the Kochs "oppose authoritarianism" but devote their resources to undermining democracy and abusing workers. I guess capitalist authoritarianism is the "good kind", huh. I mean it's the only way to get rid of those pesky "contrary ideas" like workers rights.

Hang 'em high.

February 26, 2011 at 10:35 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn,

I know Soros owns a few politicians I don't doubt they do but who do the Kock bro's own? I think the most influential and owners of politicians are the unions. Unions are OK but too many want to participate when times are good and their employer is successful and in good financial shape. They don't want to give up anything when things are tough. Union bosses are just like politicians they have one objective, hold their position and stay in power. I think in Wisconsin they should go ahead with a lay off and increase taxes on everyone in the state including businesses to solve their budget problem and make sure everyone knows why they are doing that. Let the chips fall where they may. If businesses fail or relocate so be it. If people are unemployed or leave the state so be it.

I am still now sure who represents and negotiates for tax payers with public employee unions? Can someone clear this us up for me. Who negotiates and how do they negotiate with the tax payers best interest in mind when negotiating with a public employee union.

February 26, 2011 at 10:57 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Hambone said: "I wonder how many of the Teabaggers really know that the fattest cats of all, the Koch brothers, are the ones who started the tea party?"

Yes, I've wonder about this too. The individuals leading the Koch brother’s so called “grassroots” advocacy organization -- Americans for Prosperity – have a rather sordid political history, and the only sector that could possibly benefit from their “dirty energy” and anti-union agenda are the greedy corporate creators – the Koch brothers.

I just don't understand the ordinary tea party member’s rationale and what it is that he/she are hoping to gain from their efforts. They appear to have a deep resentment of the middle class public worker's efforts - teachers, firemen, clerks, law enforcement, prison guards etc - to make a decent wage, but they strongly support unfair laws and tax breaks that essentially give the corporate sector and the wealthiest of the wealthy a free ride in our society.

The tea party talks about the sanctity of life when it comes to reproduction issues, but willing support policies that expose their own children to contaminated water, polluted air, and cancer causing poisonous products. And, if they truly value the lives of children, why do they resent educational programs and safety net support that provides much needed nutrition, preventive healthcare, and emergency medical services for so many of America’s children?

February 26, 2011 at 11 a.m.
canarysong said...

Francis and others;

The legislators who left the state to support the "crybabies" in Wisconsin who are "throwing tantrums" certainly are not the fist to use such a delaying tactic. In 1840 Abraham Lincoln did it himself as a young congressman in the Illinois state legislature. This story from NPR:

"An old article from the Illinois State Register captured what it called an extraordinary spectacle. According to this article from December 11, 1840, Democrats planned to pass a banking bill. The opposition Whig Party fled to prevent a vote. They left only a few Whigs behind to monitor the proceedings, including a young lawmaker named Abraham Lincoln.

The old newspaper article says the legislature was stalled for hours. Finally, Democrats brought in some lawmakers from their sickbeds. They barely managed to pack enough people in the room to call a vote. Abraham Lincoln did make a final, failed attempt to prevent a quorum. The paper says, quote, "Mr. Lincoln came under great excitement, and having attempted and failed to get out of the door," which was locked, he "very unceremoniously raised the window and jumped out." It was a second-floor window, but the paper says this was not so bad for the famously tall Lincoln, as his legs reached nearly from the window to the ground."

February 26, 2011 at 11:03 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “who do the Kock bro's own?”

Well, Harp3339, we’ve seen just this past week how much the Governor of Wisconsin has benefited from the Koch brother’s money, and I believe it’s rather clear they’ve also managed to get right in the center of D.C. Republican power:

“The billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch no longer sit outside Washington's political establishment, isolated by their uncompromising conservatism. Instead, they are now at the center of Republican power, a change most evident in the new makeup of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Wichita-based Koch Industries and its employees formed the largest single oil and gas donor to members of the panel, ahead of giants like Exxon Mobil. . .

Nine of the 12 new Republicans on the panel signed a pledge distributed by a Koch-founded advocacy group — Americans of Prosperity — to oppose the Obama administration's proposal to regulate greenhouse gases. Of the six GOP freshman lawmakers on the panel, five benefited from the group's separate advertising and grass-roots activity during the 2010 campaign.

Claiming an electoral mandate, Republicans on the committee have launched an agenda of the sort long backed by the Koch brothers. A top early goal: restricting the reach of the Environmental Protection Agency. which oversees the Kochs' core energy businesses.”

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-koch-brothers-20110206,0,4692342,full.story

February 26, 2011 at 11:37 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

bennett does not have a clue what the teaparty is about. He might have a chance of doing something relevent if he would use subject matter that his is obviously familiar with, Democratic politics.

February 26, 2011 at 11:45 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Some of you conspiracy theory crybabies should try focusing on issues and maybe your thinking would not be so hopelessly clouded by an obsession with who contributed to what. If you really were worried about that you would have plenty to worry about wrt thebama and the rest of the Democrats.

When the libs are getting their butts handed to them the Huffington Post & Co. abandons the issues and starts with name calling and the funding trail. Woe is me! Industry which is trying to do business but being hampered by government wants to, have a say in government affairs? OMG, who would have figured?

We should be engaged in a more obviously important topic. thebama has left us in a hopelessly vulnerable position by taking an extreme position against carbon based energy. It might not have been so bad if things in the Middle East had not gone crazy, but they did and now it is highlighting the lunacy of thebama’s “green” energy policy.

You progressives should feel embarrassed that clay bennet and the liberal press have managed to get you chasing butterflies again.

February 26, 2011 at 11:58 a.m.
hambone said...

And what about the Koch Brother role in Citizens United? Their apparent infulence of 2 SCOTUS justices?

February 26, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.
Francis said...

the tea party depiction as a mouse is wishful thinking on bennett's part....it's much more than that..and you libs know it.....they've completly turned thing upside down and have pushed politicians to be accountable.....

they're holding democrats accountable, as well as republicans...

you libs think that if you repeat something over and over then it will be t aken as fact and the masses will start moving with pitchforks and torches....sorry....you guys are like the boy who cried wolf.......now it's koch, koch, koch.....sorry, nobody gives a crap.....you're conspiratorial wackos......both parties have are very much influenced by people like that......

you libs have no standing to attack anyone who has big money influence in the republican party because your party is infested with them.

canarysong and mountain laurel...you're rhetoric is getting old......and all the public is seeing in wisconsin is democrats running like cowards and hiding, well t aken care off t eachers and state workers bitching about contribuing so others can have less of a burden..

no sane person believes unions will disapear or lose influence...or are not needed....but most people believe unions are out of control in their demands.

February 26, 2011 at 12:09 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

BRP complained that the President “has left us in a hopelessly vulnerable position by taking an extreme position against carbon based energy. It might not have been so bad if things in the Middle East had not gone crazy, but they did and now it is highlighting the lunacy of (Obama’s) “green” energy policy.”

When did the President exercise an “extreme position against carbon based energy? Are you referring to the BP deepwater oilrig blowing up and dumping millions of gallons into the Gulf of Mexico? The President temporarily halted other deepwater oil drilling operations until safety protections were inspected, and made BP put up $2 billion for the damages. What a tyrant.

T. Boone Pickens explains our current energy situation this way:

“America uses a lot of oil. Every day 85 million barrels of oil are produced around the world. And 21 million of those are used here in the United States. That's 25% of the world's oil demand. Used by just 4% of the world's population.

Can't we just produce more oil?

Consider this: America imports 12 million barrels a day, and Saudi Arabia only produces 9 million a day. Is there really more undiscovered oil here than in all of Saudi Arabia? World oil production peaked in 2005. Despite growing demand and an unprecedented increase in prices, oil production has fallen over the last three years. Oil is getting more expensive to produce, harder to find and there just isn't enough of it to keep up with demand.

The simple truth is that cheap and easy oil is gone.”

So, Mr. Ridge, you think that the President’s call for fast-tracking the development of alternative energy - to rid our dependency Middle East oil - is misguided? China is leading the way today in developing new energy technologies for tomorrow. Oily guys like the Koch’s have our energy future over a barrel of sweet crude and a vested interest in keeping it right there.

(Tea) Party on.

February 26, 2011 at 12:44 p.m.
OllieH said...

A mouse campaigning for (fat) cats- what a perfect representation of how most Republicans continue to vote contrary to their own best interests. I'll never understand why ANYONE who considers themselves middle class or below would support a party that serves only the interests of the wealthy and above.

The reason that victims of a con man often refuse to report the crime is their own sense of embarrassment or guilt. They would rather see the crime go unreported, than for others to see them as gullible or, in many cases, greedy. Perhaps that's the dynamic at work here. What I don't understand, though, is why those who have been duped by the Republicans, keep falling for the same con, over and over again. I suppose if they were to change horses now, after years of steadfast support for the GOP, it would be tantamount to reporting the crime. And that would be an admission of their own ignorance of, or collusion in, the con.

I've run into a lot of these 'anti-victims' types in my life. They see all victims as weak, stupid, and powerless. Not wanting others to see them in that light, they either deny being a victim themselves, or refuse to acknowledge any transgression at all. Unfortunately, we all have to live with the consequences when this 'anti-victim' mentality translates into support for the Republican Party. Because all of us will have to pay for this bill of goods, and not just those who were duped into buying it.

February 26, 2011 at 12:57 p.m.
Renfield said...

People who use "Democrat" as an adjective tend to be half-wits.

February 26, 2011 at 1:01 p.m.
toonfan said...

So true, Renfield.

February 26, 2011 at 1:47 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Khargis said: "Do any of you democrat party thralls really know anything about the koch brothers, or are you just parroting the current talking points?. . .you should really take a closer look at the people your leadership is trying to demonize."

Perhaps, you might consider taking a closer look, Khargis. Koch Industries is one of the major polluters in the United States, which is why they want to control the EPA – an agency that looks out for health and safety issues involving every citizen. Sourcewatch reports:

**During the 1990s its faulty pipelines were responsible for more than 300 oil spills in five states, prompting a landmark penalty of $35 million from the EPA.

In Minnesota, it was fined an additional $8 million for discharging oil into streams.

During the months leading up to the 2000 presidential elections, the company faced even more liability, in the form of a 97-count federal indictment charging it with concealing illegal releases of 91 metric tons of benzene, a known carcinogen, from its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Koch Industries was ranked number 10 on the list of Toxic 100 Air Polluters by the Political Economy Research Institute in March, 2010.**

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Industries

February 26, 2011 at 2:40 p.m.
Clara said...

Francis,

Is this the sort of thing you want deregulated?

The more I read your contributions the more I feel you would engage in this behaviour if no one could intervene!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/24/oklahoma.abuse.case/index.html?hpt=Sbin

February 26, 2011 at 2:53 p.m.
fairmon said...

OH

I agree a con is going on I'm just not sure who is being scammed the most. One group is convinced by their leaders that a larger government and spending can go on unchecked and doubling the debt again in just a few years is no problem. The other group has been convinced a smaller government and selectively stopping spending will solve the problem and reduce the debt. Pick your poison.

It is the same con over and over by both groups with just enough new twist to keep both groups falling for it. They take the same facts and keep moving things around the same way while distracting the vic by pointing at "that other crook". They are so good at it they have both groups of victims convinced it is that other con's fault, anyone supporting the other con is ignorant and ill informed. The best solution may be to let one of them go unchecked until we hit the wall. Anyone supporting either party and their current programs is a victim but as you say will never admit it if in fact they ever realize they have been had.

February 26, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.
fairmon said...

Mntlaurel,

My response is under the previous 'toon and I have no idea how to move it here. It says we may agree on the objective but not on the process.

February 26, 2011 at 4:01 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

blackwater,

So your point is that shutting down drilling in the gulf and doing everything possible to hamper all things carbon has left us in a rosy position? You still think that was the right thing to do?

If we had opened new drilling areas in the gulf and Alaska instead of shutting it all down that there would have been no impact on prices today?

Obama would have us spend a truck load of money trying to push solar panels, wind power and a smart grid and find ourselves still hopelessly dependent on imported oil. Why?, because most of that crap is premature and it will fail. He may actually reduce coal fired generation of electricity and drive up electricity cost at the same time we are trying to climb out of a recession. Shockingly stupid, but he will do it if he can find a way.

In the meantime, the progressives are left to hand-wring about Koch wanting to drill some oil and a Tea Party somewhere supporting that?

Liberals and Progressives should be banned from any say in anything technical because they are driven by emotion and fear and incapable of making rational decisions.

Oh yes, and Renfield and toonfan are both half-wits.

February 26, 2011 at 5:46 p.m.
delmar said...

BRP needs some help on paragraph #5 - "Conservatives and right wing zealots should be banned from any say in anything technical because they are driven by greed and apathy and incapable of making rational decisions." - there, that's better.

February 26, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
tderng said...

Tax em!Tax them rich sumbeeches till their eyes pop out! Tax their rich butts till they get mad and move somewhere else!Tax their dadgum businesses too. tax em till they get tired of it and move their dirty job producing businesses to another country cause we don't want them big businesses in our country.Them dadburn big oil tycoons need to be shut down completely!! Stop the oil production in America cause it pollutes and makes people rich!Stop that steel production too! cause they pollute!We gotta come together and run these rich sumbeeches and their businesses the heck out of our country!We gotta stop the coal minin and the natural gas and heatin oil producers too!Then we can all move to south Florida where it stays warm most of the winter and hope it doesn't cause it to break off with all the extry weight.

February 26, 2011 at 6:14 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

delmar,

Sorry I stuck that jab in there, do you have anything to say other than more of the stupid conservative / liberal bashing that dominates this forum?

February 26, 2011 at 6:35 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

BRP: So your point is that shutting down drilling in the gulf and doing everything possible to hamper all things carbon has left us in a rosy position? You still think that was the right thing to do?”

The suspension affected 33 oilrigs. Are you suggesting that those 33 rigs were enough to secure our energy future? That would be a 'loaves and fishes' level miracle.

If we had opened new drilling areas in the gulf and Alaska instead of shutting it all down that there would have been no impact on prices today?

I’ll refer you back to billionaire oilman T. Boone Pickens: "America imports 12 million barrels a day, and Saudi Arabia only produces 9 million a day. Is there really more undiscovered oil here than in all of Saudi Arabia?” (emphasis mine)

I'm tired of doing the research for you. You missed a cogent argument that would have weakened my initial position, but since you didn't bother to investigate I won't bother either.

February 26, 2011 at 6:35 p.m.
fairmon said...

tdering, Sure sounds like that is the prevailing opinion run their sorry asses out and tell them to take those bankers and wall st. guys and insurance companies that handle investing in businesses with them. We can buy our oil from those polluted foreign countries until we get our new energy sources. we will have it made, the government will give us free energy from those newly developed sources.

We may be the first country in the world where no one has to work to live well. Sounds good to me, I am going to join with others in kicking those profit seeking culprits. Should we write our congressperson and encourage them to pass legislation that prohibits anyone from supporting or donating to causes that opposes any regulation of any business? We should probably tell them that waiting on factual evidence before regulating them is unacceptable. They must ignore any scientific evidence contrary to any proposed regulations.

February 26, 2011 at 6:43 p.m.

Clara said...

"Francis, Is this [child abuse] the sort of thing you want deregulated? The more I read your contributions the more I feel you would engage in this behaviour if no one could intervene!!!"


Clara, that's pretty low down.

February 26, 2011 at 7:05 p.m.

This just in:

Get to know what Team Obama’s “fat cat” director of the Illinois Board of Higher Education was doing on the state payroll during the 2008 election:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/4023543-505/member-of-emanuels-team-resigns-over-prior-ethics-violation.html

February 26, 2011 at 8:11 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Looks like a DEMOC type

February 26, 2011 at 9:06 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

TO: BRP, WWWTW, Harp, et.al.:

Support any political party you believe in, apologize for any corporation you desire, but the point of the cartoon is to remind you that the "Tea Party" is funded by a domestic oil company that is trying to gut environmental regulation in order to line their own pockets. They have other political aims but deregulating the EPA seems to be #1.

If you're cool with that I'm sure the Koch's gleefully appreciate your support.

(Tea) Party on, boys.

February 26, 2011 at 9:26 p.m.
trburrows said...

again, bw, you are a stark raving idiot with no brains. please go away..

February 26, 2011 at 9:38 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Koch Koch Koch Koch Soros Soros Soros Soros

Over and over again and again.

The last election the public employee unions gave 400 million dollars and 98% went to the Democrat Party. Who's buying who? These unions are the ones that are buying your Federal, State, Local, and School Boards across the Country.

February 26, 2011 at 9:56 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

TRB wrote, "again, bw, you are a stark raving idiot with no brains. please go away.."

It's adorable how you think I value your opinion. I appreciate the unintended comedic consequences, but I thought you already stormed off in a huff. Didn't you cry?

February 26, 2011 at 10:04 p.m.

Wealth Distribution Gap in the News:

Are America's Rich Falling Behind The Super-Rich? (click here for live report)

Panelists discuss a new study showing the gap between the wealthy and the absurdly wealthy is widening, and how we can help the merely rich catch up.

February 26, 2011 at 10:46 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

When it comes to a “public” debt, why do Republican politicians believe it’s acceptable to demand ordinary workers to make sacrifices, but sacrilegious to demand billionaires to make sacrifices? Yes, what gives with this type of thinking? Anybody know?

February 26, 2011 at 11:42 p.m.
fairmon said...

Mntlaurel,

What sacrifices are ordinary workers making that billionaires are not making? Is this another way of asking why do governments not take more from the wealthy to share with the not so wealthy? Does it mean the highest tax bracket should be higher? What should the highest bracket tax rate be? Would you abolish tax exempt municipal bonds where the mega wealthy put a lot of their money enabling state and local governments to get low interest loans?

My issue with both parties is the rapid growth of government at all levels. The increase in government and public employees has been exponential while private employment has been going down or flat at best. It is approaching a point where employment by governments at all levels plus public employees which are all tax payer funded exceeds all other employment.

Is this fair? The judicial branch is included in government employment and is tax payer funded. Someone sues for good or not so good reason. For example if they are rewarded one million dollars, they get 670,000 the attorney gets 330,000 while the tax payer bears all expense of the facilities and judicial branch employees. Those forced to serve as jurors are often not compensated enough to cover their expenses while serving. Why would the tax payer not recover their expenses from the settlement? If not successful the tax payer still funds everything, why should the litigant and lawyer not have to pay tax payers cost? It would discourage frivolous lawsuits.

Is this fair? I paid taxes on money I used to buy shares of stock in a corporation that pays me dividends on the money I invested. The corporation pays 34% taxes on their profits before paying a dividend, in other words they can't deduct dividends which is essentially interest on the money I loaned them to operate their business. I then pay taxes as on the dividends I receive. The invested money is at risk and can all be lost as those did that invested in GM.

The entire tax system is a ponzi scheme that needs to be simplified and fair. See fair tax bill SB-25 or web site fair tax.org.

February 27, 2011 at 6:02 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

blackwater,

There is no shortage of research, you just don't know how to put 2 and 2 together.

You don't have to replace the production of Saudi Arabia to have a big impact on oil prices. (I noticed that you never answer any questions, I wonder why I bother answering any of yours)

33 rigs was the beginning of the development of a huge resource. You know that don't you. But rather than deal with the question about whether shutting down a big oil resource was a good idea you take a relatively unimportant fact and try to make a point with it.

Think man! Do all of these little facts rattle around in your head aimlessly until you stop moving and they all fall into the liberal mold formed by the big hollow in there?

Here you go buddy... Read this. We have vast undiscovered oil reserves because we are not using modern exploration techniques in the forbidden zones.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/new-study-shows-offshore-drilling-alaska

By the way, I recommend that you stop trying to act like an intelligent, well researched student of politics. It looks ridiculous on you.

February 27, 2011 at 11:42 p.m.
limric said...

Lets see, All around our country, the American Dream is under fierce attack. Instead of creating jobs, Republicans are giving tax breaks to corporations and the very rich—and then cutting funding for education, police, emergency response, and vital human services. And the tea party applauds this. America, is shifting inexorably to a corporatocracy. Thanks to 'Citizens United' this will accelerate. Large corporations, not the government, exported your jobs, gambled away the economy, bankrupted our schools, pensions, health care and infrastructure. Did I miss anything? OH YEA...they're in the process of dismantling our right to organize. Tea Partiers have been brainwashed into believing that the government causes all of their problems. What they fail to understand is its magnitude. The financial takeover (thievery) of our country dwarfs all of their tea party issues. And there is no politician that's speaking about it. In addition, the media have not really done a very good job, either, of explaining this to them, or to anyone else for that matter. Digging for the truth is now up to the individual. The Tea Party: Run by rats – supported by mice.

February 28, 2011 at 9:13 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339,

It seems to me you're continuing to ignore some basic facts and historical events in your argument about this economic situation. For starters, you’re ignoring that some very greedy and reckless bankers, Wall Streeters, and financial institutions created a worldwide economic disaster. The U.S. taxpayers bailed out most of these people, and, as such, the economic crisis is over for the bankers. Wall Streeters, and financial institutions. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Main Street and many of the states here in the U.S.

The pension shortfalls that some of our politicians are now screaming about exist because the pension funds in some of these states were zapped by the stock market plunge and the economic crisis created by some of these reckless bankers, Wall Streeters, and financial institutions. If these bankers, Wall Streeters, and financial institutions had not been so greedy and reckless, there is a high probability there wouldn’t have been a worldwide economic crisis, and the governors in most of these states would not have cause to scream and moan.

Instead of pushing for a plan to rein in the greedy reckless bankers, Wall Streeters and financial institutions, AND to get these bankers, Wall Streeters, and financial institutions to pay their fair share by the way of taxes, many of our politicians – especially Republican politicians - are opting to cut much needed public services, public worker salaries, and public worker rights to collective bargaining as means to resolve their economic troubles. All things considered, this hardly seems fair to the states, the schools, our communities, and the taxpayers.

In the interests of both fairness and our economic well being, indeed, I think we should tax some of these financial institutions. For example, as economist Dean Baker has pointed out: “taxing banks based on what they pay out in compensation and dividends and using the funds to support programs that benefit ordinary people would go a long way toward remedying this situation and compensating taxpayers for the economic losses they have sustained.”

March 1, 2011 at 12:16 p.m.
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