published Sunday, June 19th, 2011

Pro-Life

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

125
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
John_Proctor said...

Great cartoon Clay.

I believe that Anti-Choice is a far more accurate description than "Pro-Life." Everyone is pro-life.

Let the games begin!

June 19, 2011 at 12:15 a.m.
Yossarian25 said...

Yes, interesting how the "pro-life" people seem to lecture others about the morals they should have, in a situation they have never been in or had to make a decision about.

How can they justify bringing a life into this world, if their will be no-one to love or support them? Isn't that a sin, if we force more people to suffer?

June 19, 2011 at 2:13 a.m.
Momus said...

If Obama were Pro-Life, Consevatives would switch to Pro-Choice just to say he was wrong.

I just leave up to women, like everthing else.

June 19, 2011 at 6:57 a.m.
woody said...

Oh, even "Pro Life" is "Pro Choice"..as long as you choose their way. And if that mentality sends me to Hell..then I'll be in good company..and I won't miss the 'others' one bit.

Happy Father's Day..Woody

June 19, 2011 at 7:14 a.m.
mymy said...

The circumstances mentions has one answer: get it fixed. For the rest maybe we should have clinics to "fix" like there are for animals since society has deteriated backwards to acting like animals.

June 19, 2011 at 7:41 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

no, momus...you dope.....if obama were pro-life i would very much applaud him for it. but, quite the opposite..he's for the most extreme form of abortion.

the fact is, libs....abortion has been used as birth control since 1973...over 50 million + abortions have taken place. a "women's health is at risk"....in this country is rare, as are other often sited circumstances. it is very much a genocide by a people who don't want to be inconvenienced, behave morally or take responsibility for their actions. it's the coldest and most selfish decision immaginable.

since roe v wade human life has been devalued.....

can you "pro choice" people predict, guarantee or prove that the unborn human being you've decided to kill is better off dead than if it were "allowed" to live?

history has proven, you twits, that great people have been born into less than ideal circumstances. can you say for certain that the unborn person you've decided to kill won't contribute to society, have a postive influence or is capbable of great things? of course not.........

if the mother's life is in danger, or both..that's a completely different story.... that's a tragedy..if a husband decides that in order to save his wife's life the baby will have to die....that's a decision no man should face, and i can't blame a man for choosing to save his wife. that's a completely different story than two people shacking up and the woman getting pregnant.

the fact is, in this country abortion/the murder of the unborn is used so people aren't inconveinced or they want to make it go away.

notice that bennett makes the man the one who is pro-life...well, sorry..but that's not reality. it's just as likely to be a woman who is pro-life.

you libs like to play god...with what people eat, what they should buy, how much they should have, how much they can keep.....and the most repulsive of all..who gets to live and die.

pathetic.

June 19, 2011 at 7:49 a.m.
MTJohn said...

In practice, the pro-life movement is concerned about life from the moment of conception until birth. Thereafter, pro-life shows little concern for the dignity, quality and sanctity of life until the moment just before death - at which point, they advocate prolonging life for as long as possible, irrespective of the cost.

June 19, 2011 at 7:54 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

you libs can't take step one without denying someone their rights or stomping out freedom.

you don't believe in inalienable rights......like life! scary

June 19, 2011 at 7:58 a.m.
Czech123 said...

Here's an idea....use a condom and you won't have to worry about killing babies. If you're so concerned you can't afford a child, or you won't be able to love a child, or you're worried about you 're health, then use protection, get snipped or fixed, or just don't have sex!!! If it has a heart beat and you kill it, in the womb or out, it's murder, plain and simple!!!!

June 19, 2011 at 8:19 a.m.
MTJohn said...

SeaMonkey - what value are inalienable rights for those who lack the capacity to enjoy them? If you are that serious about freedoms, why aren't you adamant about the opportunity for our disenfranchised citizens to realize their freedoms in life and not just on paper?

Czech123 - interesting comment. I'd suggest that your argument would carry more weight if you made it to those folks who are anti sex education - which just happens to be most of the folks who profess to be "pro-life".

June 19, 2011 at 8:28 a.m.
fairmon said...

A difficult and inflammatory issue. I have in the past objected to any tax payer funding for either side of the issue. I am inclined to support fully funding the choices of offering the unborn for adoption or abortion which must include sterilization of the mother and, if known, the father. Anyone ignorant enough to get pregnant with all the prevention options available probably should not be proliferating. A very high percent of those that opt for abortion are an element of society that it would be best if they didn't increase in number although there may be an occasional exception of a successful contributor instead of a government dependent. However, that is rare and over all society would benefit if the proliferation of the dependent society is reduced.

June 19, 2011 at 8:57 a.m.
rolando said...

Reportedly, there is a new night-before medication available for women called:

P E P T O B I M B O.

It is a liquid silicone drink for single women. Two full cups swallowed before an evening out increases breast size, decreases intelligence, and prevents conception.

The perfect answer to Clay's questions...

June 19, 2011 at 9:24 a.m.
Clara said...

SeaMonkey said, "abortion has been going on since 1973."

You must be under that age then and never grasped the fact that it has been going on for hundreds of years!

This article,based on medical records, and with examples of how it was done should enlighten you.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/widgery/1975/07/abortion.htm

states that has been going on since women got pregnant. POO

June 19, 2011 at 9:33 a.m.
Clara said...

I see it is a Marxest,Socialist paper.

That doesn't make it invalid or me a communist/socialist!!!!!

Or, come to think of it, a person who has had or wants an abortion!!!!! POO

June 19, 2011 at 9:43 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I wonder what side of this issue Clay is on. It is always so hard to tell.

One side is depicted as only having slogans, the other is depicted as having well thought arguments.

Was there something in the news recently that prompted this cartoon from Bennett, or is this just another example of how you have to go fishing in the old Inflammatory Topic Bin when you refuse to be critical of your Political Deity, Obama?

June 19, 2011 at 9:49 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Clara said... "SeaMonkey said, "abortion has been going on since 1973." You must be under that age then and never grasped the fact that it has been going on for hundreds of years!"

Unless I missed something, SeaMonkey said "abortion has been used for birth control since 1973", not as you say, "abortion has been going on since 1973".

Which tactic is that again in the leftist playbook? Lie about your opponent's statements and then try to use your lie to discredit.

June 19, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Clara said... "I see it is a Marxest,Socialist paper...That doesn't make it invalid..."

Clara, Do you make it a habit to got to Marxist sources for your arguments?

June 19, 2011 at 10:02 a.m.
HiDef said...

Christians and their denominations are usually shouting the loudest when it comes to, "killing unborn babies", yet they make up over 66% of the number of women having abortions. Seems to me, if pro-lifers wanted to really end abortion, they'd stop murdering abortion doctors and start asking some serious questions of the members inside their churches.

June 19, 2011 at 10:05 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

HiDef,

It is probably safe to say that you can tie Christians to over 66% of the murders in this country too. In both examples you are just making the case that this is a predominantly Christian nation. You are not making any worthwhile argument that either of these heinous activities is right.

Can I refer to abortion as a heinous action?

If an abortion supporter was forced to conduct and abortion would their answer change?

June 19, 2011 at 10:11 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

MTJohn said: "In practice, the pro-life movement is concerned about life from the moment of conception until birth. Thereafter, pro-life shows little concern for the dignity, quality and sanctity of life until the moment just before death."

I've often thought that if the human species truly cared and respected life more in between "birth and death," divisive issues like abortion would not even exist.

Anyway, enjoy and have a great day all of you "Fathers" out there.

June 19, 2011 at 10:17 a.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said... over all society would benefit if the proliferation of the dependent society is reduced.

Harp - why not take it a step further and declare poverty and unemployment as capital offenses, with justice meted out without benefit of trial? That would solve several problems.

June 19, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.
tderng said...

MTJohn said... In practice, the pro-life movement is concerned about life from the moment of conception until birth. Thereafter, pro-life shows little concern for the dignity, quality and sanctity of life until the moment just before death - at which point, they advocate prolonging life for as long as possible, irrespective of the cost.

very good mtjohn.I agree 100%. This topic is where I turn off of the conservative road...I don't believe that I have the right to shove my morals down someone else's throat.If I were a woman abortion would not be an option,but that is MY moral option.I am in agreement with letting a totally unresponsive person with little or no likelihood of recovery the right to die.That is why my Living Will is very specific about my end of life care.

June 19, 2011 at 10:26 a.m.
Tonytimes said...

Everyone has their beliefs for a reason. The divide gap on this issue is a great one. Most people that believe in "Pro-life" (I note the first entry saying they should be called "anti-choice" but the same could be reversed and say the pro-choice person is "pro-death" let the name calling remain with children.) do so out of religious convictions. They truly believe that it is a form of the murdering of a child. We all can agree that the murdering of a child would be very bad. While most people who believe in pro-choice come from a human rights point of view. They truly believe that a woman has the rights over her own body and that the creature that is within the womb is not a child until a certain point in the development. Even pro-life people believe in human rights. Once the two sides understand the other's reasoning the childish name calling may stop. Who is right? I have my own beliefs but that is not why I am writing this post. The two sides will never come together on this issue. Both strongly believe the other side is flat wrong. So we continue to demonize the opposition. Pro-deathers and anti-choicers march on!

June 19, 2011 at 10:36 a.m.
fairmon said...

MtJohn said;

Harp - why not take it a step further and declare poverty and unemployment as capital offenses, with justice meted out without benefit of trial? That would solve several problems.

How did you make the leap from my proposal for tax payer funded adoption or abortion assistance to this ridiculous statement? Is it the proposal or my reasons for it you disagree with? It is strictly an economic issue for me. If you want free assistance I want assurance it will only be needed once and will not increase future liability. I would even add education, counseling, job training and other assistance. There is a rapidly expanding hard core unemployed dependent element that is far different than government caused unemployment and poverty. There is something wrong with a welfare program that gives an incentive to have more children to improve the benefit.

June 19, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.
fairmon said...

Would it change anything if those seeking an abortion because they can't afford more children were limited to taking the life of one of their living children instead of the unborn? To even think of such causes one to ponder the issue even more. Can some expert on the constitution provide some enlightenment where it empowers the federal government to be involved in this issue?

June 19, 2011 at 11:22 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...
June 19, 2011 at 11:26 a.m.
Professor said...

I don't think any woman WANTS to go through an abortion. I think it is probably the LAST thing any pregnant woman wants to do.

The problem is girls/women are seldom provided with realistic alternatives....such as the availabililty of sex education prior to menustration, the ability to purchase birth control products without parent consent, and easy access to the 'morning after pill' or other prescription medications that could terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

Believe me, NO pregnant woman would choose to go to a clinic to have an abortion if there were any other options readily available. Particularly knowing they have to walk past a group of angry people, who apparently have nothing better to do all day than to yell obscenities at them!

Those pro-lifers who want to ban all abortions should be actively campaigning to have all means of avoiding pregnancies readily and easily available to women...OR agree to be placed on an adoption list to adopt some of these unwanted babies.

June 19, 2011 at 11:39 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Will Obama be looking for a new Chief of Staff now?

Daley calls administration regulatory policies "indefensible".

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/helenwhalen%20cohen/2011/06/18/defending_the_indefensible

June 19, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

The International Monetary Fund cut its forecast for U.S. economic growth on Friday and warned Washington and debt-ridden European countries that they are "playing with fire" unless they take immediate steps to reduce their budget deficits.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/helenwhalen%20cohen/2011/06/19/imf_cuts_us_growth_forecast

June 19, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

It is so hard to stay on Bennett's stupid agenda when there is so much going on that demands our immediate attention.

http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/lisabenson

Pretty darn funny!

June 19, 2011 at 11:56 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

clara..you libs know darn well i'm referring to roe v wade...since then it 's been used like birth control.....of course it's always existed...so have a lot foul things....

what liberalism has done is blur the lines between right and wrong, declare things that are clearly immoral to be moral and legalize behavior that is destructive to society.. and self-destructive.

it's an unborn human being...not just a medical procedure......liberals have dehumanized the whole thing.

you liberals would have a seizure if all of a sudden dolphins and pandas started aborting their unborn....it would be an emergency...

you libs think it criminal and the height of cruelty when someone disgards a newborn puppy or kitten like it's trash....yet liberal gods, like obama, have no problem killing an unborn baby at the last minute......

your arguments are bogus........roe v wade gave the green light to use abortion as birth control. nobody got to vote on it.....it was just put into law.

and the government has no business involved in it...

it doesn't say life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..except for the unborn......

how can it not be a human being before it sees the light day, but after it is?

roe v wade has done nothing but make it open season on the unborn...

that's when we lost our exceptionalism.

June 19, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.
alprova said...

I laugh every single time that I read of a Conservative lashing out at the mention of the word "abortion." Why?

Because they may opine and condemn those who have abortions or who would consider having an abortion for various reasons, but they never seem to have any regard for anyone who can walk and talk on their own.

I'll never understand why it is that some people can be so adamant about saving embryos and whose goal is to force every embryo to be delivered, and yet can tune out forever the second an infant is born.

The moment a child is born, all you hear all over nation is that to support that child, you should "get a job" or that "everyone can be successful, I did it" or that "everyone has an equal opportunity to make what they want in life," etc.

If only it were so clear cut and so easy. It's not, it's never been, and it never will be.

The news of the day, just the other day, included a story about a man who killed his baby boy, born days before, by dropping a cinder block on his head. That's about the most vile thing I have heard of in quite some time. His reason for doing so? Him and his wife could not afford another child.

If there is all that help out there for people who cannot afford children, then why would something like this enter into the mind of a grown man, as a way dealing with the dilemma of the birth of a child that could not be afforded?

I'm tired of people who think that all the bases are covered and that every conception must result in a download, when the fact is that they would never contribute one thin dime to the raising of any child, other than their own. How many of you "pro-lifers" would agree to a tax increase specifically devoted to paying the entire costs for poor children, by clothing them, feeding them, and educating them all the way through college? Would that then not be making things equal for all?

Why is it more preferable to condemn an embryo who is delivered to living an entire life in poverty? Isn't that what happens as a general rule? Why not eliminate welfare forever by aborting all embryos in the wombs of those who cannot afford to raise them? Isn't that more in line of the goals of people who want to keep more of what they earn?

Clearly, the courage of someone's convictions only go so far. Pro-lifers want to have their nose in your business, but thy don't want it costing them any of their money.

It's lip service in it's purest form.

June 19, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.
alprova said...

Big Ridge Patriot, I will not presume to speak for others, but if I were even slightly interested in reading the Town Hall website along with their idiotic takes on the issues, I know right where to find it.

I am politely requesting that you refrain from using this site as a means to promote that site.

Honestly, I don't understand why you bother posting in here. All you seem capable of, is to bash Clay Bennett each and every time he posts a cartoon you disagree with, and to post garbage that you consider relevant. When it comes to Town Hall, most of us rejected that crap a long time ago as being untruthful, slanted, and irrelevant.

If you would like to put in a plug for what appears to be your favorite site, then why don't you buy some ad space?

What you're doing reminds me of people who will rudely walk around a restaurant while people are eating, passing out religious leaflets to others, before they are ejected from the premises by management.

It's strictly my opinion, but you should have been banned months ago because you are utterly disrespectful to an extreme in most all of your posts.

June 19, 2011 at 12:36 p.m.
hambone said...

If there are so many Pro-Life people around, why are there so many kids going unadopted?

June 19, 2011 at 12:47 p.m.
rick1 said...

BRP, keep up the excellent posts. I guess Al does not believe in your right to free speech when he does not agree with what you are saying. Instead of challenging the topics you bring up he wants to shut you down.

Keep up the good fight BRP.

June 19, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.
Clara said...

Monkey, you said, and I copied it directly from your blog... ...abortion has been used as birth control since 1973...

And I clearly meant...It's been used for birth control for far longer than THAT!

Disprove it, in stead of making false claims yourself. I think you are frightened of truths!

And, I am not a leftist or anythig but a POO.

But I shouldn't have to defend myself against YOU! Don't you think that INTELLIGENT Communists and Socialists can read world wide mediacal reports and draw their own conclusions, unlike far-right close minded people such as you?

June 19, 2011 at 1:02 p.m.
rick1 said...

BRP, I noticed Clay has not mentioned anything with the gun running at the boarder. Of course Obama and Holder are running for cover and the head of the DEA will be hung out to dry.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/17/carney_obama_did_not_know_about_or_authorize_border_gunrunning_operation.html

June 19, 2011 at 1:16 p.m.
Reardon said...

There is a philosophically-fundamental difference between "pro-life" and "pro-choice" debates.

And the difference lies between how outcomes are handled and who ultimately handles them.

The outcome of sex -- regardless of whether or not you (a) realize it, or (b) desire it -- can be pregnancy, STDs, elation, disgust, or a mish-mash of all of it.

The important undeniable TRUTH you must remember is that actions (in this case sex) have consequences, far-reaching, and permanent.

In this case, when someone does become pregnant, she has experienced the consequence of her actions, and, given the impact of the consequence, she should accept her outcome.

Leaving out those who have no choice in the consequence (rape victims), what is the "impact" of the consequence? Simply put, she is the bearer of human life -- regardless if you call it a human being, a fetus, cells -- it is someone inherently unique and for all intensive-purposes is a "human being to be," and has all the same rights as we free-thinking humans have.

Sure, we all make mistakes -- but -- here's the fundamental moment -- your mistake does not give you the right to take another's life into your own hands.

We don't tie up convicted rapists and get a splintery broomstick and have at him. We don't cut hands off of convicted aggravated burglars. We try him in a court of law, provide him with defense council if need be, and let a jury decide his fate accordingly. Why? Because we honor a code of natural rights and justice, not mob-mentality, an "eye for an eye," etc.

And so it is with the abortion debate. Actions have consequences, yes. But do we believe such consequences should ALWAYS be curable, regardless of the abrogation of natural human rights? Do we believe that other individuals, completely unconnected with said person's actions and consequences, should be forced to provide their earnings to pay to extinguish life?

And, ironically, this is the question that divides us fundamentally concerning all political questions -- who is responsible for outcomes or lack of desired outcomes?

Either you think that "society" should pay the balance for your lot in life, your "bad luck," your "sickness," your bad decisions, with one hand out awaiting payment, the other pointing a gun to your neighbor's head. Or you think individuals should take care of their own matters ONLY, and provide welfare and charity ONLY as they see fit, without a legalized mafia hustling you for tribute.

Freedom versus mob-aggression and tyranny -- you pick, there's only two choices.

June 19, 2011 at 1:24 p.m.
rick1 said...

jack, I agree they all run for cover but tragically there was an ATF agent killed because of the gunrunning. Now it appears Obama and Holder have no knowledge of anything and the DOJ is not cooperating. I misspoke in my previous post it is the ATF not the DEA.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/02/17/senator-grassley-struggles-to-get-to-the-bottom-of-border-patrol-agent-brian-terrys-death-and-the-role-of-atf/

June 19, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.
mymy said...

I'm sick of this issue. Every election with more important things at stake, especially now, this subject comes up as a distraction. It all boils down to personal responsibility which there is little of these days. There are many and the numbers are growing that have no business having a child and I do not want to pay a dime for their ignorance and the results of that ignorance. Plenty of info is readily available. They sure can find info on any other stupid activity they want to participate in- like how to milk the system. The consequences of a person’s choice to have the impulse of a puppy is theirs. The breakdown of the family and no parenting playing a big part and started decades ago and has built into what we are facing today. Just look at the news to see how many youth have no guidance and what they are doing. This applies to all economic levels. I blame the no parenting society we now live in. If it feels good, do it. Too hell with the consequences.

Alpo, the example you gave re the father that tried to kill his child is a good example how broken our society has become. With no moral fiber a society cannot survive. A child living in poverty more often than not is the parents’ choice. Instead of getting an education to improve their lot in life, they think everybody else that does the right things should pay for them. That is nothing but your socialist BS. There are plenty of genuinely needy to help, but any program put in place to help them is abused by those that think the world owes them a living and the system becomes broken and unsustainable. That’s where we are today.

Are you one of those well dressed, young, dripping in nice jewelry and a cell phone swiping a food stamp card and then driving home in a nice car?

Again:

You cannot just keep taxing the top 50% and increase the benefits to the lower 50%. Eventually you tax the top 50% out of business. When there is no one left to increase taxes on, where do you go? No more tax increases as the budget must be balanced. How to do that? Simple, balance the budget by reducing spending dramatically and requiring all to pay at least a portion of their income to the IRS.”

June 19, 2011 at 2:02 p.m.
hambone said...

If "Pro-life" by government legislation denies "Choice" doesn't that make "Pro-life" as a tax payer resposible for the result?

mymy, I'm with you!

June 19, 2011 at 2:09 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

rick1 said... "I noticed Clay has not mentioned anything with the gun running at the border. Of course Obama and Holder are running for cover and the head of the DEA will be hung out to dry."

Of course he has not. Clay Bennett worships the ground Obama walks on and will not do a cartoon that is critical of Obama, or any Democrat for that matter. I swear, Obama could order the execution of everyone on the Republican side of the isle and Bennett would post a cartoon critical of the Republicans the next day. He would probably find a way to paint the incident as the Republican’s fault.

Alprova is just a blowhard. No worry about anything he writes about.

June 19, 2011 at 2:22 p.m.
rick1 said...

mymy- very good point. Since the beginning of the war on poverty, $15.9 trillion has been spent on welfare programs. There are still 70 different welfare programs spread across 14 different federal agencies.

In fiscal year 2010 Obama’s welfare spending will reach $888 billion. His spending proposals call for the largest increases in welfare benefits that will lead to a spending total of $10.3 trillion over the next decade on welfare programs which nclude cash payments, food, housing, Medicaid and various social services.

So Al there are a lot of programs for people to reach out to. This is also why they do not have to be responsible and finish school and be successful because the system will take care of them.

June 19, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.
watchdog47 said...

"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." Mother Teresa

June 19, 2011 at 2:35 p.m.
mityeltu said...

The cartoon said it all.... What do you tell someone who doesn't want children. Well, then DON'T GET PREGNANT.

Pro choice? Really? An abortion is not the solution to a night of drunken debauchery or lustful fornication. Don't want a kid? The do the responsible thing. Take persona*l responsibility, and do what is necessary to avoid what causes*** pregnancy.

June 19, 2011 at 2:47 p.m.
hambone said...

"Pro-life" "Choice" Just another shinny object to get your attention while the House fails to do anything about the real problems of the country for fear it could cost them votes!

June 19, 2011 at 2:48 p.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

The actions of Republicans and tBaggers suggest they believe life begins at conception and ends at BIRTH.

Obama Impersonator --> Click ME

June 19, 2011 at 2:50 p.m.
rick1 said...

hambone it is Harry Reid who is sitting on the bills and not brining them up for a vote.

June 19, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

Clay, you are the insightful mirror that reflects the Republican/tea party image.

But every message sent requires a receiver with the capacity to appreciate the message.

Clay, you may as well in some instances, take the message, put it in a bottle and throw it in the ocean.

June 19, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.
hambone said...

Rick1, The bills Reid is sitting on are the problem.

When will the house come up with a jobs bill.

June 19, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Obama2012 aka stanlynelyats,

Clay knows he could never sway a right minded person with his mindless junk. He is just here to create controversy and try to get you bamabots worked up into a lather.

June 19, 2011 at 3:28 p.m.
hambone said...

BuRP, your the only one Clay seems to get to! LOL

June 19, 2011 at 3:58 p.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said... How did you make the leap from my proposal for tax payer funded adoption or abortion assistance to this ridiculous statement? Is it the proposal or my reasons for it you disagree with?

Harp - you also advocated mandatory sterilization. That was my stepping stone and from that point the leap was not all that great.

June 19, 2011 at 4:19 p.m.
tderng said...

alprova said...I am politely requesting that you refrain from using this site as a means to promote that site.

...How about those posting things from the Huffington Post,or Dailykos,or other demonicratic websites who mostly post lies about conservative politicians and their ideals? Perhaps all website references should be banned?How about that alprova?There are people from the left who wouldn't be able to say anything on this site,certain people post weblinks in every post that take someone to a liberal website.

June 19, 2011 at 4:37 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

if the gun running at the border would have been on bush's watch there would be televised hearings....if the unemployment and underemployment rates would be as they are under bush they would be calling for him to resign....if bush had spit on congress like obama is doing in this libya situation he would be impeached........if bush would've openly set out to bankrupt an industry, like obama has the coal industry, he would've been crucified...if bush would've ridiculed citizens and states for wanting to defend their borders against illegal alien criminals he would've been slammed............should i go on?

the abortion issue, or, to be more accurate, the killing of the unborn.....reveals your disingeneous nature.

what's happened since roe v wade has nothing to do with, "if the mother's life is in danger"..it has nothing to with someone not being ready financially for a child..it has nothing to do with rape or anything else like that.......

it is exactly the murder of unborn human beings in the name of convenience. nothing more.

it is a slaughter...a genocide. ..50 million plus..sliding toward 60 million......if those numbers don't move you, you've lost your humanity.

lincoln said, "if slavery isn't wrong, then nothing is"....well.....if the murder of the unborn isn't wrong, then nothing is.

June 19, 2011 at 4:47 p.m.

"Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being’s entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign."

— Mother Teresa (Recalling America, 1994)

June 19, 2011 at 7:38 p.m.
ceeweed said...

MTJohn, You are so right! Pro-Lifers are passionate about the unborn, it's just that they lose their zeal for life once a baby takes that first breath. A woman right to choose is the law. A law that states are whittling away bit by bit. If one's heart is true about the sanctity of life then one must step up and care for all of God's children...and since most Pro-Lifers are against government assistance to the poor, there will plenty of opportunities for them to come down from their pulpits and do some real service work, filling the gap they intend to create when they nix government assistance to the poor and needy.

June 19, 2011 at 9:50 p.m.
tderng said...

this country is going to freaking he ll in a handbasket and Bennett wants us to talk about an issue that's as tired as a 150 year old turtle.Way to stay up on the issues dude!

June 19, 2011 at 9:53 p.m.
fairmon said...

MTJohn,

You are right I did say mandatory sterilization for those that have a tax payer funded abortion. I will pay for one but not any more than that. Those not liking that option can pay for their own. That is not suggesting anything beyond stopping the increase in the number that are government dependents. Unfortunately it does nothing to address those that keep having children in order to increase their welfare benefits which is much more common than you might believe. I don't have a clue how to reduce that. I wish some agency would assure the children are properly fed, housed and cared for or removed from that environment like they are supposed to but don't.

We are losing the war on drugs so bad it is frightening. Drugs are the root cause of a lot of poverty, welfare abuse and unplanned pregnancies. I would vote for and assist with aborting anyone at any age for dealing in drugs. We chase off to Libya while our own country is being invaded by the Mexican drug cartels and like an Ostrich our leaders stick their head under their arm or in the sand and pretend it isn't happening and that it is not a major problem.

June 19, 2011 at 9:56 p.m.

ceeweed said...

“MTJohn, You are so right! Pro-Lifers are passionate about the unborn, it's just that they lose their zeal for life once a baby takes that first breath. A woman right to choose is the law. A law that states are whittling away bit by bit. If one's heart is true about the sanctity of life then one must step up and care for all of God's children...and since most Pro-Lifers are against government assistance to the poor, there will plenty of opportunities for them to come down from their pulpits and do some real service work, filling the gap they intend to create when they nix government assistance to the poor and needy.”


Not surprised to see this popular fallacy regurgitated here ad infinitum. Don’t take it from me …

“Bleeding Heart Tightwads” (Nicholas D. Kristof, The New York Times, December 20, 2008)

“This holiday season is a time to examine who’s been naughty and who’s been nice, but I’m unhappy with my findings. The problem is this: We liberals are personally stingy. “Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

“Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

“Other research has reached similar conclusions. The “generosity index” from the Catalogue for Philanthropy typically finds that red states are the most likely to give to nonprofits, while Northeastern states are least likely to do so. “The upshot is that Democrats, who speak passionately about the hungry and homeless, personally fork over less money to charity than Republicans — the ones who try to cut health insurance for children …

“Something similar is true internationally. European countries seem to show more compassion than America in providing safety nets for the poor, and they give far more humanitarian foreign aid per capita than the United States does. But as individuals, Europeans are far less charitable than Americans …”

June 19, 2011 at 10:14 p.m.
fairmon said...

the questions are not difficult to answer. What do you say to someone that don't want children, that can't afford children or whose health is at risk. Get your dumb ass to a physicain and use the most effective pregnancy prevention method available plus the morning after treatment. Or put an aspirin between your knees and do not let it fall for any reason. If sterilization of the male and female on the first tax payer funded abortion is too strong then what about the second one? When is enough enough?

June 19, 2011 at 10:17 p.m.
tderng said...

WWWTW...liberals want YOU to give to the poor.They want the government to take YOUR money,not theirs.They don't want their money to go toward anything but themselves and their families.they talk a good game but when it comes time to pay up they are always "gone to the restroom."

June 19, 2011 at 10:35 p.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "Instead of getting an education to improve their lot in life, they think everybody else that does the right things should pay for them. That is nothing but your socialist BS."

Wait a minute. You people are the ones demanding that children be downloaded. My position is simple. If you demand that people download those embryos, then you should be willing to foot part of the cost to raise them.

Accusing me of being a Socialist is stupid. Have the courage of your convictions or admit that you're full of crap and that you don't give a hoot about how that child winds up in the grand scheme of life.

"There are plenty of genuinely needy to help, but any program put in place to help them is abused by those that think the world owes them a living and the system becomes broken and unsustainable. That’s where we are today."

That is nothing short of a cop-out and your way of ducking out on the issue at hand, while you demand people to download kids they cannot afford to raise.

"Are you one of those well dressed, young, dripping in nice jewelry and a cell phone swiping a food stamp card and then driving home in a nice car?"

Well of course, that would satisfy your sense of reason, wouldn't it?

The fact of the matter is that I generally wear jeans and a pullover shirt, I'm 52 years old, I only wear my wedding band, and I do carry a cell phone 24/7/365, have never drawn food stamps in my life, but do drive a decent looking pickup truck, that I paid cash for two decades ago. I'm a semi-retired CPA with all the work I desire to handle these days.

June 19, 2011 at 10:47 p.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "You cannot just keep taxing the top 50% and increase the benefits to the lower 50%. Eventually you tax the top 50% out of business."

That's about the most moronic statement I have ever read in this forum. To put it about as plain as I know how to, there are people who can afford to pay taxes and there are those who cannot.

Most people in that lower 50% are doing all they can do to live at the minimum levels of expected comfort, that is if you agree that they too should be able to have families, raise them, and educate them as best they can. Would you allow them to live in a house? Should they be able to afford a decent car or two, if both husband and wife must work? How much in taxes do you think they should be paying if they've got a couple of kids and are making $30,000 to $40,000 a year?

"When there is no one left to increase taxes on, where do you go?"

Take a gander back at the tax rates for the rich in this nation back in the 60's and 70's. This nation has never been more prosperous and yet, the ultra-rich paid at one time a rate of 89% of their income over a hundred grand in taxes.

"No more tax increases as the budget must be balanced. How to do that?"

You get back to taxing the rich in this nation like it once was. The rich in this nation are spoiled and they need to be taxed the way it once was.

"Simple, balance the budget by reducing spending dramatically and requiring all to pay at least a portion of their income to the IRS."

Clearly, you are not in touch with the reality to what some people are forced to live with and the minimum standard of living.

How much do you make a year? Have you ever had to struggle to make ends meet? Are you for real?

June 19, 2011 at 11:03 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "...How about those posting things from the Huffington Post,or Dailykos,or other demonicratic websites who mostly post lies about conservative politicians and their ideals? Perhaps all website references should be banned?How about that alprova?There are people from the left who wouldn't be able to say anything on this site,certain people post weblinks in every post that take someone to a liberal website."

As much as you want to take his side, because we differ in political opinion, try to use your brain to grasp the reality of this situation.

When someone makes a point and desires to post a link to a site, that supports their position, that is one thing. When you are Rolando or Big Ridge Patriot, you post a disrespectful diatribe about Clay Bennett and then you spend an hour posting links to cartoons and useless articles on the Town Hall website.

Sure they are ignored for the most part, but Big Ridge Patriot went a step farther. He slammed Clay, and then made reference some supposition that Town Hall is addressing more important issues of the day that Clay refuses to address. Then he proceeded to post at least three links to completely off-topic articles on that site.

I probably shouldn't have posted a word about it, for he wins something I suppose if someone acknowledges his tripe in any manner. So he won something today.

The level of disrespect by a couple of people toward the man who sponsors this forum is out of control. I'll give it no more of my attention again, for it deserves not one second of anyone's time.

June 19, 2011 at 11:20 p.m.
alprova said...

I've posted it many times.

When a pro-lifer visits a baby in the maternity ward, they only have one thing to say to that child;

"Gootchie Gootchie Goo. Now it's all up to you."

June 19, 2011 at 11:25 p.m.

"There's no such thing as unwanted child. If nobody else wants them, bring them to me, I want them." - Mother Theresa

"I will tell you something beautiful. We are fighting abortion by adoption - by care of the mother and adoption for her baby. We have saved thousands of lives. We have sent word to the clinics, to the hospitals and police stations..." - Mother Teresa

If you care to look beyond slogans and cartoon rationalizations and instead investigate the issue of caring for the babies and mothers surviving crisis pregnancies, I would encourage you to visit a local crisis pregnancy center or adoption agency. Pro-life advocates indeed care for the children of mothers who resist the pressure to abort. If you want to see heartlessness and greed, check out the abortionist profiteers and their determination to misinform and manipulate women in crisis. Cha-ching.

Or the boyfriend who pressures his girlfriend to abort so that he can evade the responsibility to care for his baby. The abortion license has served him very well.

“How Abortion Empowers Men”

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2009/07/her-choice-her-problem

June 20, 2011 at 12:12 a.m.
alprova said...

7,000 children are permanently abandoned in the United States every year.

1.3 million runaways or street kids exist at any given time in the United States.

There are an estimated 100 million children living in the streets in the world today.

Mother Teresa had wonderful intentions, but no one can or has ever provided enough warm and loving homes for each and every infant born in this world, to any point that abortion does not provide a better solution to an expectant mother who knows that she is in no position to provide for the child in her womb.

Not even in this nation are there enough homes and there never will be enough homes to make a case for eradicating abortion based on the premise that there are better alternatives for every mother considering terminating a pregnancy.

June 20, 2011 at 12:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

Should an unplanned pregnancy for reasons other than rape be treated as a crime by both participants? Punishing perpetrators instead of the victim reduces the number of victims. What excuse is there for any reasonably intelligent person to become pregnant or to make someone pregnant? Some idiots act like OH! I didn't know sex would cause that. When you hear a couple say we didn't plan on that happening you can bet your sweet bippy they didn't guard against it either. Why are there not free sterilization clinics for males and females? Every abortion for the reasons justifying one in the 'toon should require female tubes tied and the male confirmed by DNA a vasectomy. Performing an abortion without including these should be a serious felony crime. It is not a moral issue, it is not a rights issue, it is not a political issue it is a financial issue.

Those intent on reducing welfare and entitlement spending also insist the element of society proliferating like rats not be allowed to interrupt the proliferation of dependents they are not willing to support. Those same people are not willing to allow someone with a terminal illness to make a rational dignified life ending decision but object to funding the medical expense of those useless end of life medical treatments. It is a financial issue and you can't have it both ways without being willing to pay for it.

June 20, 2011 at 1:19 a.m.
Yossarian25 said...

It doesn't have to be "abortions for nobody" or "abortions for EVERYBODY". There is a middle option which is well-informed, sensitive and holistic. It is a complicated issue, I would love to be able to care for every unwanted child and ensure they could be alive and come into this world... but my rationality makes me realise this is unfortunately unrealistic. If you are going to make people have children (because the statistics quoted are actually people) then will you be there to help later on? Well... no you won't.

June 20, 2011 at 2:53 a.m.
alprova said...

harp3339 wrote with a poisoned pen: "What excuse is there for any reasonably intelligent person to become pregnant or to make someone pregnant?"

They were horny. Do you remember when you got that way?

"Some idiots act like OH! I didn't know sex would cause that. When you hear a couple say we didn't plan on that happening you can bet your sweet bippy they didn't guard against it either."

You do know that the largest religious organization in this nation is the Catholic Church and they forbid the use of contraceptives, don't you?

"Why are there not free sterilization clinics for males and females? Every abortion for the reasons justifying one in the 'toon should require female tubes tied and the male confirmed by DNA a vasectomy."

Who do you think you are? King James?

"Performing an abortion without including these should be a serious felony crime."

That makes so much sense. A little sperm that winds up in the right or wrong place, depending on how one looks at it, and they are then required to be childless for the rest of their lives? Do you even think that makes sense?"* Kook.

"It is not a moral issue, it is not a rights issue, it is not a political issue it is a financial issue."

Are you keenly aware that most people in this nation who eventually seek an abortion, do so without one cent being taken from your pocket or inconveniencing you one bit.

Let me tell you what the REAL problem is. The problem is that for some reason, people like yourself want to make something that is none of your business, your business without any invitation whatsoever, and you seem incapable of butting out, no matter how many people tell you to butt out of their business.

It's not a financial issue at all. IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!

June 20, 2011 at 4:05 a.m.
inthemiddle said...

Timing of the abortion seems to be the issue for some folks.

Abort the child at 6 months good. Slam a brick through its head at 9+ months "vile".

Is there any difference between the two when the outcome is essentially the same?

Name a disaster around this world that when our nation is called upon to give that we have not given in abundance. We give to tsunami victims to earthquake victims and to the victims of unforseen circumstances. What we don't give to are to the people who are victims of their own circumstance or poor choices. The choice that should have been made in the first place is to have sex or not. That is your choice that you are free to make. But as others have noted there are consequences to every choice we all make. At what point does responsibility take place? In the womb or in the bedroom?

June 20, 2011 at 7:16 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Libertarians4Freedom said... I'm pro-choice but that's because I'm anti-welfare. Human life ain't so sacred when I have to pay for it, LOL.

So, if a woman chooses to keep the baby and then neglects the child and the child gets run over in the street and killed and this means you pay less taxes, you're all for it? I think you mean to say that human life ain't so sacred unless it's your own. By extension, every poor person that dies is another win for you. If you could find a way to kill everyone you could have everything! Then things would be great in "Your Kampf!"

June 20, 2011 at 9:25 a.m.
moonpie said...

Harp,

You wondered why there are not free sterilization clinics?

I thought you'd addressed your feelings about free clinics before.... they still have to be paid for.

When family planning came before the county commission, you were against "confiscated money" called "taxes" being used. Fair enough. You said you would donate to one.

A TFP commonent saying you'd donate to one is not really a call to action. You can generate some buzz here, but this is not where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

I'd be impressed if you actually went out and started raising money and helped get one off the ground.

Of course, then you have to decide who gets free sterilization.... is it income based, or can anyone do it? You'd have to consider making it free to everyone and anyone who's insurance does not pay for it. Otherwise, you'd be seen as just wanting to sterilize the poor. The details are fuzzy for me, but I think Clinton caught some heat because he supported efforts which resulted in the systematic sterilization of certain impovrished groups somewhere in South America. In the US, it's illegal to sterilize women on Medicaid who are under 22 years of age, because of the historical practice of doctors using their medical authority and influence to sterilize poor black women, sometimes without the woman's knowledge.

June 20, 2011 at 10:09 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "My position is simple. If you demand that people download those embryos, then you should be willing to foot part of the cost to raise them."

By that logic, anyone who saves anyone's life should be expected to support the saved person from that point forward. Do you have any idea how stupid you come across alprova?

June 20, 2011 at 10:24 a.m.
moonpie said...

Harp,

You also posted that DNA testing, a vasectomy and a tubal ligation should be performed on people getting the abortion (for the reasons listed above).

I have some practical questions:

1) Do you make it illegal to get an abortion if the father doesn't consent to the abortion? Because, if an abortion is being performed, a vasectomy on the man would be assault, would it not? Or do you just let the guy off the hook if he says he doesn't want the abortion?

2) Why does abortion have to result in permenant sterilization, too? Why not affective reversible sterilization? Given that criminals can serve time, re-enter socieity and regain most of their rights.... why do women who have an abortion get a life sentence. Sounds like a moral judgement.... since there are reversible forms of contraception available.

3) Have you considered the cost of your plan? The courts frequently have to get involved to track down fathers of unintentional fathers. Imagine getting cooperation of these men if they knew there boys might be clipped!! So, factor in the court costs of bringing these guys in. Then consider the cost of DNA testing. A zygosity test is about $400-800 per test, depending on the lab. (Hopefully just testing one man per abortion). While most appropriate for some women, tubal ligations or Essure are not the safest or cheapest form of contraception for women, either. IUDs are reversible and financially less costly when considering the cost of the device, the efficacy and the cost of complications and unintended pregnancies.

Since you have put aside all moral considerations and view this financially, I would say I don't think this policy is an economic winner. Compared to your plan, abortion would be cheaper.

Just as things to think through as you begin your fundraising efforts. Perhaps you can find a way to streamline.

June 20, 2011 at 10:26 a.m.
limric said...

Christian conservatives speaking to business owners.

Conservatives, “*Your company may be in the business of despoiling the environment and endangering life…but that none of our business. “

Your company may also be complicit in the deaths of many human beings…but we understand that’s capitalism. Long term, your firm’s practices may even be contributing to the very extinction of many species of flora and fauna…but who are we to judge?”*

BUT, if your company ever remotely supports Planned Parenthood, that’s when you’ll hear from us!”

Business owners, “Why?

Conservative, “Because we’re pro-life.”

June 20, 2011 at 10:54 a.m.
aluk22 said...

The issue of abortion has always been polarized because foes of legal abortion entertain they have the undisputed moral high ground. Once they satisfy themselves of that, they believe their moral high ground should be law to all others. They are crazy. They are very crazy. Some of them say abortion is murder. If it is, it's conspiracy murder in the first degree. This is a crime punishable by death.

Over fifty million women have had legal abortions. Do these foes of legal abortion feel if justice were served all 50 million women and their doctors could justly be put to death?

All women of every age should be able to obtain an abortion privately, legally, cheaply and safely, and owe no explanation to anyone.

June 20, 2011 at 11:23 a.m.
mymy said...

ALPO: How did you get so twisted? If you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart. If you are not conservative when you get older, you have no brain. How did you come to hate “the rich”? What do you consider rich? There has always been the rich, the poor and everything in-between. It takes all kinds to make things work. The problem is when government’s fight against poverty (to buy votes and power in the long run) actually created a segment of society that became addicted to government taking care of them and they “reproduced”. Where do you think most of your 7,000 and 1.3 million numbers probably came from? They should be “fixed” in one way of another. How is the question. Money doesn’t solve this problem. You cannot save people from their own stupidity. So, here we are. This country is broke morally and financially. If you are truly a numbers guy, you should understand the consequences we are in now.

I’m not rich and I do not hate the rich. I sure have run into some that I don’t like for various reasons, but hate because of their success no! The American Dream was achieved. I don’t consider someone making $250,000 rich. I consider them someone who has worked hard to have a good life and people like you, O and company want to punish. You want to spread the wealth. You could take all the money in this country, divide it equally and before you know it things would go back to being the same. Those who don’t have an education, personal responsibility and won’t work will end up the same in the end. The others would grow that money and become rich again. You fool. You are the one not in touch with reality.

Who do you think provides jobs? Why are companies not investing money and creating jobs? There is too much government interference in private sector creating a bad business environment that’s why. Highest corporate taxes in the world and why along with other reasons many have left this country. We need an environment to try to bring them back along with a better tax system. This environment was created by both sides of the isle, but mostly by the left. Obama is the worst of the worst (a George Soros puppet. Soros has brought down the currencies of other countries and made a fortune and that’s his goal in pulling the strings of and for O.) This country is in a tail spin because of his policies. History shows they don’t work. If he is so smart, why is he doing this? The answer is freighting=taking us back to what our forefathers escaped. Is that where you really want to go? Consider the consequences. You sure would not have the freedom you enjoy today.

June 20, 2011 at 11:23 a.m.
mymy said...

Personally, I have had 2 husbands. Number one that came from a wealthy background and didn’t amount to a pile of Poo. The second came from extremely poor background. He did get a college education an succeeded to outgrow the poverty part. They both had something in common though. Both extremely scared and abnormal by their environment. I paid a price in both situations, but I managed to raise a son with good personal responsibility and someone I can trust with my life unlike his father #1 and #2 who did his best to put me six feet under. Guess who is six feet under at a young age (51)? Guess who survived scarred for life with little in my favor and NO help from anybody-family who couldn’t or government handouts. Again, environment counts. The values you are taught count in whether you survive or not.

I will not make a bet with you because you will not pay, but 2012 will rid us of the Obama Plague, I pray. Only a Moron or relative will vote for O. You know which you are!

PS I have disagreed with the Catholics position on the use of contraception for many years. So do many Catholics. I also disagree with their no marriage for priest which is an incubator pedophiles.

Have at it line for line your mode of operation to twist and turn.

June 20, 2011 at 11:24 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

ceeweed..that's a stupid post..full of garbage.......and alprova...i'll go with mother theresa over you any day....

the numbers are against you libs...as usual......sliding toward 60 million since 1973.....if that doesn't tell you there's something wrong, nothing will. those aren't genocide-like numbers?

oh, the lack of humanity!

June 20, 2011 at 12:34 p.m.
dude_abides said...

“Both Stalin and Hitler outlawed abortions (the latter only for Aryans, of course). They understood perfectly well that the denial of reproducti­ve freedom is necessary for the denial of freedom of thought and action.”

so... you and Hitler would allow abortions for the underclass only? Are you saying that pregnancies that do not result in the use of your tax dollars are okay too? That is where you would distinguish your opinion from Adolph's. So...L4F, from your post, you are either idealogically aligned with Hitler, or you are pro choice, period, and for totally financial reasons. Does this square with the website you promote (I have never been there, sorry)?

June 20, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.
limric said...

Right-wingers maintain a lengthy agenda. There’s the need for wars for profit, tax cuts, corporate freedom, unlimited consumption, private (or no) health insurance, tax cuts, expanded empire, and other self-satisfying goals. Oh and did I mention tax cuts?

Then there’s abortion. The Right just doesn’t like it. Naturally, conservatives aren’t keen on birth control either… except for themselves. Actually, the Right isn’t really into fun, but are into controlling YOU.

You might assume that their interest in abortion lies in the protection of children. Nah, guess again. If anything, it’s the fact that women enjoy sex - disguised as defending embryos. Once the kid is born, forget it. These cornflake Christians show no interest in child care, health care, nutrition, education, welfare, family services, or other common childhood needs. We’ll get you born, kid, but after that you’re on your own.

And they’re really good at getting unwanted children born, no matter what the condition of the child or the jeopardy to the mother. The Right isn’t into mothers, just babies before they’re born. In fact, they consider mothers as culprits. They had sex and now must PAY !

There are laws that protect medical workers offended by abortion. They can refuse to participate in any part of it, even administrative work, without fear of losing their job. Why, one wonders, did they take the job in the first place? And, one further wonders, could this same principle be extended to National Guard troops who joined up to protect their state from disaster or foreign invasion but are subsequently ordered to invade other countries? Well, no, that doesn’t count. War doesn’t rise to the conscience level of abortion.

Especially for women. As soldiers they may be ordered to go out and kill, but they can’t get an abortion in a military hospital. Only lately can they even get a morning-after pill on base. And now arch-conservatives (some posting here have said exactly this) are trying to convince black Americans that abortion clinics on their turf are committing genocide. Further, they're saying that women are actually better off not being covered for abortions by Medicaid. These extremists are also successfully working to keep any abortion coverage out of any and all health-care bills.

It’s true, right-wing leaders are given to many obsessions (witness the Tea Party), but abortion is in a class by itself. Sex, ideology, and politics make a powerful and frightening team, one we’re not likely to see the end of in our lifetimes.

War’s OK,

Where thousands die,

But one abortion,

Makes me cry.

June 20, 2011 at 1:19 p.m.
llamapop said...

How about another new law: If a male any age impregnates a female against her wishes to have a baby, he becomes liable for a court-ordered vasectomy. If she has the baby and the DNA shows who the father is, off he goes. Watch those legislators freak out on this one. It is OK to harm a woman much the same as a rapist does, but don't touch his manhood!

June 20, 2011 at 1:57 p.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "ALPO: How did you get so twisted? If you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart. If you are not conservative when you get older, you have no brain."

That's your personal opinion and not a statement of fact.

"How did you come to hate “the rich”? What do you consider rich?"

Where do you get any idea that I "hate" the rich? Pointing out that they can pay taxes and live quite well in spite of paying those taxes is not any indication that I hate anyone. The rich funded our Government for many, many years without any help whatsoever from the poor, don't you know?

"You cannot save people from their own stupidity."

That's rather profound and in my opinion, you're living proof of that alright.

"I don’t consider someone making $250,000 rich. I consider them someone who has worked hard to have a good life and people like you, O and company want to punish."

Please reread your quoted statement preceding this latest one. When you make $250,00 per year, you're living high on the hog and you can fork over quite a bit in taxes and you will not sacrifice your lifestyle one iota.

As for the rest of your post, clearly you are a student of the Fox News University and use talking points that have been spewed by those hosts for years.

Try doing some of your own thinking for a change. Try reading other viewpoints and investigate claims for the truth. You'll become enlightened, I assure you.

June 20, 2011 at 2:20 p.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "I will not make a bet with you because you will not pay, but 2012 will rid us of the Obama Plague, I pray."

If Monkey Man had coughed up the proof and posted it, I would have paid the man. He did not post it. Two other people did. I did not offer to pay anyone but Monkey Man a thing. So drop it. I knew the twerp was incapable of coughing up the proof, so my money was safe.

"Only a Moron or relative will vote for O. You know which you are!"

Again as always, you're entitled to your personal opinion, and like anal orifices, everyone has one.

Personally, I kinda see why a former husband of yours may have attempted to put you six feet under. You're not a nice person. I'm sure you're loads of fun to live with too.

I'm not going to let you right-wing folks with personality disorders ruin my day any more, or force me to respond in kind. You and a few others in here seem to wrap your whole existence in life around what person holds office as President in this country and I find that laughable as can be.

You people are under some illusion that the President of the United States of America can wave a magic wand and create a Utopian society or ruin the nation.

People can be so stupid. They'll forget the path that was traveled for years and by those who traveled it to get where we are now, but blame the man 100% who happens to be in charge now.

And most of you are so arrogant as to believe that you have a handle on what the truth to anything is, without a shred of proof to stand upon while claiming it.

You are jokes. You're hopelessly ignorant. And you're not worth the time to correct in most cases. How many times has the proof to what is true and correct been dangled in front of your eyes and you still refuse to acknowledge it?

You guys had better get a handle on one fundamental truth and a fact that you can research. Jimmy Carter is the only Democratic President in more than 100 years who was not re-elected to a second term. And despite all the cries by the right, the economy in this nation is not as bad as they would have us believe.

There is not one man or woman threatening to run for President as a Republican that comes close to polling higher than the man already holding the office. And that will not get any better, what with people jumping into that ring every day of the week it seems.

This nation is going to be sick of the Republicans and all their rhetoric by next November. Fox News may convert to Liberalism by then.

June 20, 2011 at 2:40 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

twerp?...how big are you?

he said it...., alprova..my statement was correct..i was right and you were wrong.

you owe me.....it was proven.....you just don't have the balls to pay.

dude.......and other libs...lets cut to the chase...sliding toward 60 million since 1973...... well...dude, i guess since hitler and stalin weren't for "reproductive right" ..then that settles it......we who think it's wrong are just like them.....you're an hole....a class a, number 1 hole..

"reproductive freedom".....what utter bull****....just like a "pro choice"........it's amazing how you libs ratinalize...how you twist and contort things to suit your bizzare and depressing ideology.....you suck....

if that's not wrong, nothing is. it's barbaric..savage....ghastly....an abomination....it's as bad as human sacrifice...beheading someone and shrinking their head.......t here's nothing positive about it..nothing....no good comes of it....it's murder ...it's demonic

June 20, 2011 at 3:23 p.m.
mymy said...

ALPO: "Try doing some of your own thinking for a change. Try reading other viewpoints and investigate claims for the truth. You'll become enlightened, I assure you."

Why don't you take some of your own advice you may learn you are not alway right! You are a sicko that thinks you know it all, but you don't have a clue. Your response proves nothing. I'd rather be me than you.

June 20, 2011 at 3:32 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

it's as legitimate a choice to murder your unborn baby as it is to "allow" it to be born?

born, ok..not born, ok.....whatever ...whatever you feel like.........what a cold place it must be in you liberal's heads and hearts....not to mention confused......

you know what a liberal world would be like...... an endless dmv line.

June 20, 2011 at 3:43 p.m.
mymy said...

Limric says: War’s OK, Where thousands die, But one abortion, Makes me cry.

What makes me cry are the children born to the low life human animals that have the impulse of a puppy. There has been bad behavior since the beginning of time, but look at it now. It is a massive problem, When the responsibility of having that child sets in, they are unloved, uncared for, abused in every manner you can think of or killed, but they get the handout that keeps them going down the same road vs. no help and learning personal responsibly for their actions and hopefully change. These stupid Mothers exposed their children to one boyfriend after another plus God only knows. The boyfriend is in for……………as long as it last. Remember a few years back when the boyfriend, beat, raped and killed a 5 year old little boy. Can you try to imagine what life is like for these children born to these subhuman people. Again That Makes Me Cry, but nothing I can do about it. Money doesn’t solve the problem. Liberal society with no consequences for bad behavior has the most to do with it. They make it easy for these people to be unaccountable and handouts only encourage this continued behavior and the destruction of a society. A broken society cannot survive. WE are at a tipping point in this country. We can go back to some moral behavior, fiscal and personal responsibility or continue on the destructive path we are on. The choice of the American people in the future will be very telling, but because these people continue “reproducing” and grow in numbers each year What Is The Chance of that Happening? Just think what children as a whole are exposed too at an early age today on all economic levels. It’s a shame.

Regardless of ALPO’s opinion as he professes to know all, I raised a decent human being making mistakes as we all do, but learning from them. He thought I was tough, didn’t get everything he wanted as I had seen the result of that first hand. With age and maturity he gets it and now appreciates it. He is proud of himself for his accomplishment and so am I. He deserves anything that I do for him now when I can. Just can’t say I love you and I’m proud of you too many time!

June 20, 2011 at 5:02 p.m.
dude_abides said...

SeaMonkey, L4F is pro choice. Learn to read. You are taking up for him, and he disagrees with you.

You have a rating system for "holes", how nice. Your posts are the most gross things I read. You are a truly base person. Time and time again your posts read like what a letter to 'Hustler' magazine must look like... full of foul imagery, dark subject matter, mean themes... When I read your mental garbage, I can smell BRP's house the morning after he's cooked a "big pot of souse."

June 20, 2011 at 5:04 p.m.
tderng said...

the left is pro-death for the unborn and pro-life for murderers,rapists and child molesters/killers.go figure,kill the one who has no choice and save the one who had a choice.Typical.

June 20, 2011 at 5:06 p.m.
fairmon said...

mymy,

Alpo is an idiot that has appointed himself valedictorian and TFP post proctor.

ALPO,

Don't tell me the subject in none of my business when an element of society is popping kids out like a Pez candy machine. The government confiscates money called taxes to fund the welfare programs. The free health clinic or the ER also cost tax payers.

harp3339 wrote: "What excuse is there for any reasonably intelligent person to become pregnant or to make someone pregnant?"

ALPO responded; They were horny. Do you remember when you got that way?

I know it well and that is why I had a vasectomy. There is no valid reason in today's world other than rape or ignorance for an unplanned pregnancy. I still maintain there should be a free abortion clinic and exercising their pro choice right at a tax supported facility includes my right to insist on sterilization even if it just because a bit of sperm got in the wrong place.

You pointed out how many homeless, neglected and uneducated kids were in society today. I agree and I think more needs to be done to provide and care for them but the proliferation of future welfare roles and Obama voters or his equivalent needs to be curtailed.

ALPO said; It's not a financial issue at all. IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!

You can post some of the dumbest illogical BS seen but to suggest proliferation of the welfare roles is not a financial issue may even top your justification of Wiener's lying and deviate behavior. Do you have any idea of the difference in the number of births to an upper income college educated couple and an uneducated single female or couple on welfare? Do the math on that 2-3 generations out plus the debt our idiot leaders have accumulated with the projections to continue increasing. All the wealth of those now viewed as wealthy can't handle that load.

alpo said; You do know that the largest religious organization in this nation is the Catholic Church and they forbid the use of contraceptives, don't you?

They also forbid abortion therefore your point is?

Why is it more your business than that of anyone else?

June 20, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said... 7,000 children are permanently abandoned in the United States every year.

1.3 million runaways or street kids exist at any given time in the United States.

There are an estimated 100 million children living in the streets in the world today

Based on your own data your objection to local tax payer funded abortion clinics with sterilization is what? I have to agree that a free abortion clinic with no provisions would be better than continued proliferation and growth of a dependent society. I would like to see a designated and well managed support system for those children entering the world under the conditions many do. I would prefer it be local with qualified volunteers involved.

The objection to prevention education and prevention assistance is What?

Your contention that this situation does not cost tax payers anything is based on what?

I assume you can also make a case that a majority of immigrants here illegally also don't cost anyone anything.

Did you catch the news clip about the free bicycle helmets in a plush NY community paid for by a federal grant? You should relate to their local city council member that said on camera it wasn't tax money, they were paid for with a federal grant. The same answer I got from a local council member regarding Chattanooga's sustainability position with a $100,000+ per year salary. Could that money be better used assisting those young children in poverty? Food, housing, clothing, shelter and education without the mother getting the money, too often they neglect the child. I am not sensitive to parents that could not meet any kind of means test for being a parent?

June 20, 2011 at 7:49 p.m.
limric said...

Re; mymy’s 5:02 p.m posting

A short heartfelt essay, with bountiful depth mymy.

I have only to say that you and most all posting here have little, if any, worldly knowledge. The heartbreak (and strength) within your heart is seemingly unaware of the depths of deprivation and horror facing women and children outside the sanctity, security and Valhalla of the gated communities where many pontificate.

You have every right to be proud of yourself and your offspring, but your Beverly Hills self-righteous indignation is empty and hollow.

There is much within the lines of your essay mymy. I can see it. Can you?

June 20, 2011 at 9:43 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tderng said... the left is pro-death for the unborn and pro-life for murderers,rapists and child molesters/killers.go figure,kill the one who has no choice and save the one who had a choice.Typical.

Yes, yes, You've caught us fair and square, tdrng. We discussed in our last meeting that you might be on to our hating the innocent and loving evil, but we hoped that you might not put all the pieces together before the next election. Tderng it! There goes our chance to get the antichrist re-elected and impose our dark will upon the decent folks of this world. You may have won this round, but we'll be back... hey, can I interest you in a little ecology at the expense of free enterprise?

June 20, 2011 at 10:04 p.m.
mymy said...

Limric: your conclusion is totally wrong. I do not live in la la land nor have I lived in this dumpy town all my life. Seen and experienced a little of the world first hand. Wake up to reality.

June 20, 2011 at 10:53 p.m.
mymy said...

rick1 said... 6/19 1:16 pm “BRP, I noticed Clay has not mentioned anything with the gun running at the border. Of course Obama and Holder are running for cover and the head of the DEA will be hung out to dry.” If you are referring to Fast and Furious: What a dumb idea in the first place. Something really fishy about this. If Kennth Melson is the scapegoat to be, I think I heard they will find him another job to keep his mouth shut. They could also threaten him in some other way. Wouldn’t put anything past Holder and The One. Melson has the goods and could sing like a bird. I just heard a good interview with an ATF agent. There is no way Holder didn’t know or order this. If Holder knows, so does Obama. Time will tell. “Congressional Investigations Began today on Operation Fast and Furious where in essence the administration is on trial. There have only been twelve occasions where top administration officials have been held in contempt since Watergate. Today the ground work was laid to hold ATF director Kennth Melson and potentially Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt for their refusal to hand over documents regarding Operation Fast and Furious, the secret administration program that put thousands of guns into the hands of Mexican cartels while publicly blaming American gun shops and lack of American gun laws.

For months the ATF and DOJ have ignored subpoenas and demand letters and have not turned over a single document. Areas of inquiry have included: How Fast and Furious got started, Communications between the FBI, DOJ and the ATF over the death of border agent Terry who was killed by one of the guns involved, and What the DOJ knew about the operation. The administration has spent OVER $1,000,000 tax payer dollars on project Fast & Furious and Project Gun Runner.

June 20, 2011 at 10:55 p.m.
tderng said...

The scary thing dude is that I am afraid that ya'll will get him re-elected!Then the darkness will descend and light will forever be banished!No more hope,waiting for a handout from Uncle Sam,no chance to rise to a better life.Forever taught that free thought is evil,that personal responsibility is for losers(oops sorry forgot that we'll be taught that everybody is a winner).No chance for innovation unless the leaders say its o.k.

June 20, 2011 at 11:03 p.m.
Rufus_T_Firefly said...

I'm pro-life until I have to reach into my pocket for a little $$$$ to back it up!

June 20, 2011 at 11:06 p.m.
fairmon said...

Apparently an NBC editor stepped in it when one nation under God was twice edited out of a pledge of allegiance video. There should be another filing for unemployment before Friday. He took Obama's declaration that America is a secular nation literally.

Another appointed czar is leaving. His job was to address bullying in schools which should be a local issue addressed by school boards. His qualifications didn't justify the position and his accomplishment was zero. He felt there should be federal legislation requiring many things that would do between little and nothing to address bullying in schools. His book "The Queering of American Schools" will get the publicity he desires for it. I won't be buying a copy or suggesting anyone read it. Appointed czars are not vetted or approved by congress nor is there a limit to the number if congress continues funding the position.

June 20, 2011 at 11:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Monkey Man wrote: "twerp?...how big are you?"

What does size have to do with anything? The word refers to your status as a silly or annoying person.

"he said it...., alprova..my statement was correct..i was right and you were wrong."

Be that as it may, the fact of the matter was that the challenge to you was to prove it and you did not. Someone else did it for you. I knew my money was safe because you are totally pathetic when it comes to debating anything.

"you owe me.....it was proven.....you just don't have the balls to pay."

But it was not proven by you. Go back and read my challenge. It pertained only to you. You failed to prove anything. Now get over it and move on.

June 21, 2011 at 12:48 a.m.
alprova said...

MyMy wrote: "hy don't you take some of your own advice you may learn you are not alway right!"

I've never claimed that I am always right, but you're absolutely free at any time to prove me wrong. I rarely am wrong.

"You are a sicko that thinks you know it all, but you don't have a clue. Your response proves nothing. I'd rather be me than you."

What do you think your most recent response indicates? Nothing. Telling me I don't have clue and proving it are two separate and distinct happenings. If you think you're up to it, try proving I am incorrect about anything. Don't sit there and drop general statements about nothing in particular. Get specific.

And that goes for any of you yahoos out there who think you have a grasp on reality, the facts, and a provable truth.

I stick my neck out there quite often. Those who have been around for any length of time know well that it is a rare occasion that I get it chopped off.

June 21, 2011 at 12:55 a.m.
alprova said...

harp3339 whined: " mymy, Alpo is an idiot that has appointed himself valedictorian and TFP post proctor."

Is that a fact? Then I'm sure you can quote the date and time that I wrote any such thing into this forum, right?

"Don't tell me the subject in none of my business when an element of society is popping kids out like a Pez candy machine. The government confiscates money called taxes to fund the welfare programs. The free health clinic or the ER also cost tax payers."

Maybe so, but that in no manner gives you any right as an individual to do anything more than whine about it in a public forum. What people do in their lives is none of your freaking business, nor do you have any right or invitation to interfere in their lives and with their decisions.

"I still maintain there should be a free abortion clinic and exercising their pro choice right at a tax supported facility includes my right to insist on sterilization even if it just because a bit of sperm got in the wrong place."

You are indeed a kook. You have absolutely no right to sterilize anyone other than yourself, and you never will.

"ALPO said; It's not a financial issue at all. IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!"

What's none of your business is who aborts a child or when or where. It's also none of your business if they decide to have the kid and go on welfare to be able to afford to raise that child.

Don't you get it? Just because you pay taxes, you are never extended any right to so much as speak to or or to intervene with anyone else in their life decisions.

"You can post some of the dumbest illogical BS seen but to suggest proliferation of the welfare roles is not a financial issue may even top your justification of Wiener's lying and deviate behavior."

You're brain is clearly not hardwired correctly, so any opinion you may have of me is about as bothersome as a fly in my kitchen. Buzz off.

This may ruin the rest of your life, but every last welfare recipient in this country has the same right to be left alone as you do.

"Do you have any idea of the difference in the number of births to an upper income college educated couple and an uneducated single female or couple on welfare?"

Upper income people have more kids than the poor and the uneducated. There are by far, fewer people who are uneducated and fewer people on welfare than those who are educated and making higher incomes.

Were you under some silly illusion that those on welfare and who lack a formal education, outnumber the rest of America? Where did you get that idea from?

"Why is it more your business than that of anyone else?"

You're totally a pathetic kook. You posted all the proof as to just how invasive you want to be in certain people's lives, what you want to do to them if they make decisions that you disagree with.

Psst...You're not God.

June 21, 2011 at 1:56 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

"what's none of your business is who aborts a child or when or where"

exactly..and that's what's been the prevailing attitude by the media and "progressive" movement since 1973...and the numbers back it up......sliding toward 60 million......

and it is a child, it is a human being.....

apparently is seems to be the governments business...they ok it , fund it and promote it.

see..here's what is with many of you libs....you'll hand over everything over to the government, your freedoms, your money, rights.....everything....as long as they take care of you and they allow you to have all the sodomy, abortions and pot you want.....you can toss in some other suprervised entertainments as well...

inalienable rights..that's the key.......you libs believe criminals have them, terrorists, illigal aliens, transgender people,...and so on....but, somehow...an unborn human being doesn't.

heck....envirowacko libs even believe salamanders, plants, beetles and worms have rights.....

"choice" does not apply to murder......clearly, abortion is murder.

June 21, 2011 at 9:08 a.m.
chet123 said...

OH SHUT UP SEAMONKEY....YOU RUN YOUR MOUTH ON PROLIFE AND YOU HAVE NO CHILDREN...START PROCREATING MAN AND SHOUT YOUR BIG MOUTH....MAYBE THAT WHY YOU CANT MAKE ANY CHILDREN...YOU USING THE WRONG END ..DUMB-BUTT

June 21, 2011 at 4:39 p.m.
chet123 said...

I never seen so much hypocrisy in my life...Seamonkey cares about noone but himself...he come on here portraying to be a humanitarian..a person of love for children and human life..LOL LOL LOL ..this dude is a dollar chaser..he has one of the most selfish,cold-hearted atittude any person can have....he cares only for me me me me! What a phony paradox!

June 21, 2011 at 4:55 p.m.
chet123 said...

FOLKS THIS IS REPUBLICAN POLITICAL FOOTBALL AT IT BEST!!!!

June 21, 2011 at 4:57 p.m.
fairmon said...

Aprova,

Take a flying leap you kook. Don't tell me it isn't my business when the damn government is taking my money to provide welfare. It is and I will be on their ass about it frequently. I have and will continue proposing a tax funded abortion clinic as long as it provides no more than one with abortion a part of the deal if tax payers pay for it. However, I have somewhat mixed emotion on that since I would prefer they abort instead of proliferate so I am willing to fund it if necessary without that condition. It does bother me to assist someone with getting away with murder.

There is a government stat showing the average number of children per college educated couple is significantly less than the number becoming a parent that receives government assistance. 49% pay no taxes and many receive a hidden welfare called earned income credit. You have a warped view of the real world. Either you live in a gated community you rarely leave or so far out in the woods you never see reality.

You and that dumb ass president you worship and the ignorant congress are moving me closer to the poverty line daily. How did he get so wealthy? I suspect he may have had or may still have mafia connections. Community organizers don't become wealthy.

The only thing you have said that makes sense if that if the kids are born then those able should fully support them. Where we differ is I am more than willing to support children but not the lazy ass mother that keeps having them to increase her welfare.

June 21, 2011 at 5:01 p.m.
alprova said...

harp3339 wrote: "Aprova, Take a flying leap you kook."

You Sir, are the one who believes that you have special privileges never before extended to anyone in this nation before.

"Don't tell me it isn't my business when the damn government is taking my money to provide welfare. It is and I will be on their ass about it frequently."

Okay then, let me know when they squeal like a pig because you're on their ass.

"I have and will continue proposing a tax funded abortion clinic as long as it provides no more than one with abortion a part of the deal if tax payers pay for it."

First of all, what the heck are you rambling about. Second, who are you to propose anything that will ever come to pass, simply because you want it. You're a nobody.

"However, I have somewhat mixed emotion on that since I would prefer they abort instead of proliferate so I am willing to fund it if necessary without that condition. It does bother me to assist someone with getting away with murder."

You don't pay enough in taxes to even claim having paid more than a penny or two a decade, that MAY have wound up in the pocket of a welfare recipient. So why don't you shut up about it?

"There is a government stat showing the average number of children per college educated couple is significantly less than the number becoming a parent that receives government assistance."

Here's what the census has to say on it, as of the last posted results on the subject in 2008:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0093.pdf

Just scroll down to the "Family Income:" section and look at the numbers. That alone proves your accusation that welfare recipients have more babies is patently false.

"49% pay no taxes and many receive a hidden welfare called earned income credit."

So? The simple fact exists that there are people who can afford to pay taxes and there are those who cannot. What you don't seem incapable of understanding is that until people became brainwashed by those loyal to Reagan and the Republicans and their "trickle down economies," we had a thriving middle class in this nation. The hole left over the years has created many more poor people who cannot afford to pay taxes because their middle class incomes have disappeared and the drippings no longer pay their way through life.

"You have a warped view of the real world. Either you live in a gated community you rarely leave or so far out in the woods you never see reality."

Not quite. I have a part-time job, which I celebrated my first year's anniversary on the job, today as a matter of fact, and what's left of my accounting firm that I have whittled down to a few, select clients. I do live in the middle of my gated 28 acres, in my one story, 5 bedroom home, which was built and paid for in cash many years ago.

June 22, 2011 at 2:31 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

For the truth, call 267-7943 ("Choices") and ask how these pro-lifers can help you. I've seen respectable middle-class families let unmarried pregnant ladies live in their homes for months. Free pregnancy tests? Free ultrasounds? Oil changes? If Mr Bennett were a reporter instead of an idealogue, he might check it out.

June 22, 2011 at 6:36 a.m.

Alprova said “What's none of your business is who aborts a child or when or where.”


(AP) "Pennsylvania Abortion Doc Killed 7 Babies With Scissors" (January 2011)

"PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- A doctor whose abortion clinic was described as a filthy, foul-smelling 'house of horrors' that was overlooked by regulators for years was charged Wednesday with murder, accused of delivering seven babies alive and then using scissors to kill them. "Dr. Kermit Gosnell was also charged with murder in the death of a woman who suffered an overdose of painkillers while awaiting an abortion.

"In a nearly 300-page grand jury report filled with ghastly, stomach-turning detail, prosecutors said Pennsylvania regulators ignored complaints of barbaric conditions at Gosnell's clinic, which catered to poor, immigrant and minority women in the city's impoverished West Philadelphia section.

"Prosecutors called the case a 'complete regulatory collapse."

June 23, 2011 at 7:36 a.m.

Alprova said “What people do in their lives is none of your freaking business, nor do you have any right or invitation to interfere in their lives and with their decisions … Don't you get it? Just because you pay taxes, you are never extended any right to so much as speak to or to intervene with anyone else in their life decisions.”


Congratulations. You’ve just eliminated the basis for law, government, and civilization. I hope everyone will think carefully about the implications of your suggestion.

June 23, 2011 at 7:37 a.m.
alprova said...

whats wrong with the world wrote: "Congratulations. You’ve just eliminated the basis for law, government, and civilization. I hope everyone will think carefully about the implications of your suggestion."

Now hold on. You're attributing something to me that has never been stated by me, and that makes you intellectually dishonest.

Re: The Law: It is legal to have an abortion in this country.

Re: The Gov't: Of course it is the right of the Gov't to intervene if a medical provider is violating laws in the course of providing services, just as would be the case for any medical provider that is violating laws or standards of service. But unless you are the victim, it is none of your business. It is the business of the victim to file a criminal complaint, not an anti-abortion idiot.

Now read this very carefully. You have no business as an individual, sticking your nose into the business of anyone else, no matter who they are, when they seek to obtain an abortion, just as you don't have any business sticking your nose into their business when they make other personal decisions of a medical nature.

Their decisions are none of your business. Morons like yourself will never understand that. So my time was wasted pointing that out to you, but I had fun doing it nonetheless.

It's fun pointing out utter stupidity.

June 23, 2011 at 10:21 p.m.

Are you saying that, as a principle, only individual victims have a right to address individual violations of civil and human rights abuses? What if the victims are intimidated, manipulated, or snuffed out so that their voices are muted or eliminated? Your principles for law and justice are chockfull of a desire to impose your own moral values on society. They simply don’t extend to having compassion for the inconvenient victims of our society’s “mind your own business” attitude toward sexuality and marriage.

When you deny anyone, or a whole class of "anyones" their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, you have forfeited your right to live without others sticking their noses into your business. Bury your head in the sand if you insist, but our Constitution requires that you respect the dignity of all human life (as does the Hippocratic Oath for doctors), not just those who have the ability to redress injustices committed against them. This logic doesn’t register with you because you have succumbed to the upside down values of 21st century America and imposed them on the governing document of our Republic. Which qualifies you to become a federal judge. Congratulations.

June 24, 2011 at 10:28 a.m.
alprova said...

wwwtw, I have no idea what the heck you are so worked up about. I have made it as clear as I can what I am saying.

The subject that was on the table and that I said was no one's business was individual acts of abortion.

No one person, or a group of people for that matter, have no business at all with their noses into the business of those who make a decision to seek an abortion.

That's it.

Now whatever it is that has your boxers in a bunch is something that is completely separate from that simple statement. I have read your diatribe above and can't make any sense out of it whatsoever in terms of how it applies to what I have so clearly stated.

But let me say this. I have never in my life ever witnessed an anti-abortionist show any concern for the the medical standards that were being applied to a mother on the table aborting a fetus.

So I find all that you have typewritten to be most amusing, to say the least.

You're free as a bird to be opposed to anything at all. But your opposition to this particular issue leaves you with little to nothing in terms of the people involved being of any concern to you.

And that is the law, in case you didn't know it.

June 24, 2011 at 11:39 a.m.

Aprova said: “But let me say this. I have never in my life ever witnessed an anti-abortionist show any concern for the the medical standards that were being applied to a mother on the table aborting a fetus.”


You must be kidding. Pro-life advocates are the only ones showing any concern for the medical standards that were being applied to a mother on the table aborting a fetus. The health risks involved in abortion are enormous. Pro-abortionists fight tooth-and-nail against any legislation requiring abortion providers to meet the same medical standards as legitimate outpatient surgery clinics or to provide women with important information regarding those health risks. For abortionists, it’s all about the money. "That's life," they say.


If you’ve never witnessed compassion by pro-life advocates for the women and babies damaged by unsafe medical practices of abortionists, it is because your head is in the sand. The “mind your own business” approach applied to the taking of human life is a reproach to liberty and justice. In the case of pro-abortionists, it’s the “for all” part that is dispensable.


I.L. Horton and D. Cheng, “Enhanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality-Maryland, 1993-1998,” JAMA 285(11): 1455-1459 (2001);


Abortion contract: If we mess up, you are contractually bound to come back to us for a second abortion (by Mailee Smith, Thursday, June 23rd, 2011) http://www.aul.org/2011/06/abortion-contract-if-we-mess-up-you-are-contractually-bound-to-come-back-to-us-for-a-second-abortion/


“We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers” (from the grand jury report against the brutality of Philadelphia abortionist Kermit Gosnell)

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

*The Pennsylvania Department of Health knew of clinic violations dating back decades, but did nothing;

*The Pennsylvania Department of State was “repeatedly confronted with evidence about Gosnell” – including the clinic’s unclean, unsterile conditions, unlicensed workers, unsupervised sedation, underage abortion patients, and over-prescribing of pain pills with high resale value on the street – “and repeatedly chose to do nothing.”

*Philadelphia Department of Public Health officials who regularly visited Gosnell’s human waste-clogged offices did nothing;

*Nearby hospital officials who treated some of the pregnant mothers who suffered grave complications from Gosnell’s butchery did nothing; and

*The National Abortion Federation, the leading association of abortion providers that is supposed to uphold strict health and legal standards, determined that Gosnell’s chamber of horrors was “the worst abortion clinic she had ever inspected” – but did nothing.

June 24, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.

Aprova said: “And that is the law, in case you didn't know it.”


Exactly. And in our republic, the Supreme Court is not responsible for enacting laws. So the unconstitutional Roe v. Wade decision (a case of manipulating a woman in crisis if there ever was one) should be overturned. The effort to overturn Roe recognizes that the Constitution is designed precisely to “stick its nose in the business of” those usurping their powers at the expense of the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of others.

June 24, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.
alprova said...

Roe V. Wade will never be overturned. The Supreme Court has made that clear, what, a half dozen times?

So mind your own business and quit thinking you have some right to prevent a woman determined to abort a fetus.

As for the rest of what you posted about, I couldn't care less. I think you're full of hooey, but then that's what I think of all militant pro-lifers. I don't buy for a second that they care about medical standards for any women, just as I know for a fact that their interests in the infant ends the second they are downloaded.

Here...this guy will make you feel better. He's a real winner. He was so determined to stick his nose in the business of his ex-girlfriend, that he wanted everyone else to read about her business.

Why are all the fathers who become upset when their off-spring is aborted by the mother, so homely? It makes me wonder why they were given the chance to procreate in the first place. Shame on me for typing it, but it's true.

The billboard he erected had so many endorsements on it, that it looked like a vehicle that belonged on a NASCAR track.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/23/judge-tells-boyfriend-to-remove-abortion-billboard/?test=latestnews

June 24, 2011 at 4:01 p.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.