published Wednesday, June 22nd, 2011

The Pledge

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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woody said...

I long for that day..Woody

June 22, 2011 at 5:28 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Justice--for unborn babies and their murderers? (Put "FOR ALL" in scare quotes too?) 163,000,000 unborn girls have been aborted for being girls.

June 22, 2011 at 6:17 a.m.
jimbob said...

Me 2 Woody.

June 22, 2011 at 6:33 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Andrew - I didn't realize that the Peoples Republic of China had adopted the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag.

June 22, 2011 at 6:57 a.m.
alprova said...

Leave it to Andrew to be a day late and a brain fart short. No one can accuse him of being topical, on time, or in tune.

June 22, 2011 at 7:04 a.m.
hambone said...

Now days, Justice is directly proportional to your ability to pay!

June 22, 2011 at 7:32 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

oh, you leftist clowns....your hypocracy stands out more than obama's ears......

andrew has a good point.....according to you libs, liberty and justice for all applies to everyone, even non-citizens....and terrorists.

you libs who back civilian trials for terrorists, and have no problem giving illegal aliens the same rights as citizens, even elevating them over citizens...yet, somehow you don't believe the unborn should be guaranteed life, liberty and justice.

June 22, 2011 at 7:35 a.m.
mymy said...

Under God with Liberty..... May the Left's false God Rest in Peace in 2012 along with his activist media NBC and others who campaign instead of report the news!

June 22, 2011 at 7:36 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

if the unborn aren't guaranteed life, and liberty and justice doesn't apply to them.. then it shouldn't apply to anyone. what you leftists have done successfully is dehumanize the unborn. are you proud of yourselves? 50 million plus..sliding toward 60 million......

June 22, 2011 at 9:05 a.m.
limric said...

JESUS Alprova. Did you used to work at an A Max prison? Are you a concentration camp commandant on the lamb? A priest? Good god man. that video should be outlawed...or used at Gitmo.

June 22, 2011 at 9:06 a.m.
limric said...

WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. Six of the finest words ever written. Even if they were for a magazine contest. IN GOD WE TRUST, not so much.

I had an interesting conversation about this topic the other day. She said; “Our Creator endowed all men with unalienable rights… from our Declaration of Independence. Without God, all men become property of the state. This is treason and sedition against the American people. We should write to the FCC and complain about our “unalienable” human rights being denied us in a public broadcast.

WHOA, that made me step back.

I then replied, “If we are forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will - are we not already property of the state? Hmm, Your God has forsaken you.

I then quoted Dan Barker, which really riled her up. "Not being a believer helps me stand for so much more and fall for so much less."

Though it might be odd to suggest, and infuriating to some, I posit that the phrase 'IN GOD WE TRUST' violates premises of the Constitution because it goes against the Establishment Clause. The implication of the phrase is to invoke a Christian, or at the very least, a ‘Western’ conception of God. This certainly, I contend, is not something embraced by the Constitution (take note tea party). Another point is that by forcing people to say the phrase helps to violate the spirit of "negative freedom" which is present in the First Amendment. This concept says that individuals have the right to be left alone, free from intrusion from external ends (take note libertarians). Bearing this in mind, individuals and organizations should be free from having to pledge allegiance to a higher power if they do not feel the need to do so, and without fear of repercussion.

Do I believe “UNDER GOD” should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance? Yes. Why? Quote: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams.

Smart guy that Mr. Adams.

June 22, 2011 at 9:14 a.m.
Salsa said...

The guy in the suit must be a Kennedy.

June 22, 2011 at 10:26 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

many of the founders were wary of religions.. not god/creater that's a fact...

there's plenty to back that up, limric and you other libs

and what happens when you "progressives" play god?.......you end up sacrificing 50 million plus unbor to prove the state is god.

June 22, 2011 at 11:05 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

limric said... "I then replied, “If we are forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will - are we not already property of the state? Hmm, Your God has forsaken you.”

Limric, I am surprised the person you were talking to did not respond that the wars and taxation you refer to are just more examples of the state trying to take power it was not intended to have (under the original intent of the Constitution).

"'IN GOD WE TRUST' violates premises of the Constitution because it goes against the Establishment Clause"

I don't think that is correct by original intent. Establishment of a state religion is a far cry from recognition of God on a coin. I don't know how you can make your claim with a straight face when you see how the founders used references to God in so many of the founding documents! Are you blind man?!

June 22, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
limric said...

Your God, (in all is perturbations) is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. And you like the resemblence.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. Don’t they?

Enlightenment is a mind opened by wonder. Not one closed by belief.

June 22, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.
JeffersonLives said...

"Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood.

Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable... Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

-Martin Luther King, Jr. (Who gave his life in the pursuit of justice.)

"For there is no defense for a man who, in the excess of his wealth, has kicked the great altar of Justice out of sight." -Aeschylus

"There are but two parties; there never have been but two parties… founded in the radical question, whether PEOPLE or PROPERTY shall govern? Democracy implies a government by the people… Aristocracy implies a government of the rich… and in these words are contained the sum of party distinctions." -Thomas Benton

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?" -Saint Augustine

June 22, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

limric said... "Your God"

You have zero idea what my beliefs are limric. On that topic I can tell you that you are 100% wrong.

I am just countering your constitutional point and you are changing the subject.

When backed into a corner, change the subject!

June 22, 2011 at 11:57 a.m.
rolando said...

Ouch!

June 22, 2011 at 12:08 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Limric, I don't know where to start except to say that I feel very sorry for you because of your hatred for God/Jesus. I am not sure Satan himself could have been so cruel and hateful as you. I am very glad I will not be you on Judgement Day. So maybe you should change your avatar to something like this. http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/kulesza89/SATAN.gif

June 22, 2011 at 12:11 p.m.
limric said...

My 11:44 post was not meant for you BRP. Sorry it was misinterpreted.

However-

limric said... "I then replied, “If we are forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will - are we not already property of the state? Hmm, Your God has forsaken you.”

Limric, I am surprised the person you were talking to did not respond that the wars and taxation you refer to are just more examples of the state trying to take power it was not intended to have (under the original intent of the Constitution).

Same difference.

I don't think that is correct by original intent. Establishment of a state religion is a far cry from recognition of God on a coin. I don't know how you can make your claim with a straight face when you see how the founders used references to God in so many of the founding documents! Are you blind man?!

Your founder’s reference to god is irrelevant in this context. The attempted connection to a 1954 addition is a bit fallacious.

June 22, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
mymy said...

I would rather believe in God and he never returns than not believe and he does.

I have such mixed views on abortion and am sick of it at election time along with religion both are just a distraction from the important issues, but don’t tell me that some really do need a fix of some sort. Which causes more pain, early abortion or after birth child abuse and murder.

Mom Arrested After Baby Dies in Microwave Yang has three other children, all under age 7. Probably no father in sight or should I say fathers.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/21/calif-mom-arrested-after-baby-dies-in-microwave/#ixzz1Q1O8Vrew

June 22, 2011 at 12:39 p.m.
limric said...

nurseforjustice,

Look sweetie. I don’t hate something I know doesn’t exist. All of the a fore mentioned derision's come from YOUR scriptures. There is not enough love and kindness in the world to give any of it away to imaginary beings.

I gots two questions fer ye,

1) Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." "The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." -both of the above by Thomas Jefferson

2) Why did Jefferson hate god?

And speaking ofSatan? Who, in nineteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?

June 22, 2011 at 12:49 p.m.
Possiblian said...

Limric.... I love you! :)

June 22, 2011 at 12:56 p.m.
limric said...

mymy, I can't bring myself to look at that site. If there is one thing that brings about the rage within, it is child abuse. There is no reason for her continued existence on planet earth. This emotional and perfectly rational (to me anyway) response will of course be swept aside by misguided psycho babble. It is after all - societies, and by extention - our fault. Except in the Seamonkeys case -then it's Obamas fault.

June 22, 2011 at 1:04 p.m.
Possiblian said...

Most people cannot, or maybe i should say are not willing to, attempt understanding why OMNIPOTENCE, OMNISCIENCE and OMNIBENEVOLENCE cannot go together.

June 22, 2011 at 1:09 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Limric, not that I expect what I say to change your mind but I will have my say anyway. First, I ain't your sweetie. If you have paid the least bit of attention to past post then you would know that I am a man. Second, you can't count or just got carried away with yourself. You asked 7 questions.

"I gots two questions fer ye,

1) Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

2) Why did Jefferson hate god?

And speaking ofSatan? Who, in nineteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"

That looks like 7 questions to me! God is much more complex than your questions above. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? He does prevent evil at His own will. All of God's created beings, human or angelic, were created with a free will. He did not want robots, but wanted beings that freely worshiped Him. Satan is evil incarnate. He/Satan/Lucifer decided he could be as powerful as God so he rebelled, only to lose and be cast from God's presense. BTW, he took a 3rd of the angels with him on his rebellion. GOD IS OMNIPOTENT AND ABLE TO SQUASH EVIL AT ANYTIME. But He is omniscient as well as sovereign, knowing what is best for everyone. He loves His created beings, us humans, so much that He was not willing to just do away with us after our fall (read Genesis chapter 3). So at just the right time He sent His only Son, Jesus Christ, to be the sacrifice/payment for our sins. Now when Jesus returns, He will someday rid this world of evil/Satan, but again, at His timing not ours. I think that pretty much answers most of question/s 1).

"2) Why did Jefferson hate god?" Well I can't answer that one. He is dead and gone. While he was a smart man, he was still a sinful man in need of a savior.

And for your last question "And speaking ofSatan? Who, in nineteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?" He is a lost cause. Made his bed and must lie in it so to speak. He can not repent and be saved. His destiny is carved out and will be carried out. He loses in the end.

Bottom line, Limric, God loved you so much that He gave His only begotten Son for you to live eternally with Him.

June 22, 2011 at 1:28 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

limric said... "Same difference"

I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that when the state is overreaching, and causing the injustice you complain about, that it is the fault of someone's God because that God did not intervene in the action of the state? A God that you do not believe exists?

”Your founder’s reference to god is irrelevant in this context. The attempted connection to a 1954 addition is a bit fallacious”

How can you site the Establishment Clause of the Constitution and then in the next statement claim that Founder’s references to God in founding documents are irrelevant? Is this one of those examples when you can only refer to the Declaration & the Constitution when it suites limric’s needs?

June 22, 2011 at 1:33 p.m.
alprova said...

limric wrote: "JESUS Alprova. Did you used to work at an A Max prison? Are you a concentration camp commandant on the lamb? A priest? Good god man. that video should be outlawed...or used at Gitmo."

How dare you say that about a man who invented the musical Bible.

June 22, 2011 at 2:01 p.m.
alprova said...

limric wrote: "1) Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

I'm in no manner desiring to enter into this argument, but I do have an answer for this question.

In the Bible, God vowed to not ever interfere with the affairs of Earth and free will by humans. Satan made no such promise. Where does evil come from? Satan is evil and incites it in those willing to be evil.

When all is said and done, and no one knows when that will be, each of us will answer to God for that which we have done or failed to do as the case may be.

June 22, 2011 at 2:13 p.m.

Is it me or can Andrew find aboration in EVERY issue? And do the libs cringe every time Owebama mentions (Big G) God?

June 22, 2011 at 2:30 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Hey Al, First I just want to say that I am not arguing with you. I would just like to know the where the referrence is found for your statement above. "God vowed to not ever interfere with the affairs of Earth and free will by humans." I do study the scriptures daily but they are so vast no one can know all that is in them. I just am not familiar with that statement by God. thanks

June 22, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.
limric said...

BRP,

No no no, I was comparing contrasting the “without god” or leaving out “under god” as not being an applicable example of “unalienable” human rights being denied”. Whereas being” forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will – existentially being property of the state” is. And that being the case, we are denied liberty and “free will” – hence god forsaking her for not intervening. It was bit of dig at her logic masked by me being a tad cheeky. My logic is valid, its the execution that’s bit convoluted.

The irrelevancy comes with the fact that “In god we trust” was added in 1954 as an affront to the feared commie threat. That’s the only reason it was added. Arbitrarily adding it to something that ALL children must recite, and when one considers the strong implication the phrase has to invoke a Christian, or at the very least, a ‘Western’ conception of God does conflict with the establishment clause, and the founders intent.

Also. Our statements: “If we are forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will - are we not already property of the state.” and “examples of the state trying to take power it was not intended to have” are essentially the same thing. Aka - Same difference. See.

June 22, 2011 at 2:53 p.m.
limric said...

No nurse, I only asked two questions. The others were rhetorical.

June 22, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.
Possiblian said...

The 1954 addition of "under God" was added by the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization....(I bet most protestants do not know that) It wasn't in the pledge to begin with, shouldn't be in there now.... and on to my next "soapbox" issue...

Next, why is it that every time someone makes the argument for their god, they can't do it without their holy book? To many, the bible is nothing more than a fiction story. Why in the world would you use a make-believe story book to try and convince "non-believers" they should believe the same thing you do? I am not opposed to changing my mind (unlike the religious folk)but I need cold hard facts... evidence. None of which can be found in a story book... especially when it is a book that has similar stories all across the globe throughout the ages all claiming to be THE ONE true story of our existence.... hmmm.

It won't be long til Christianity goes the way of Greek and Roman mythology. It will be studied about in school as a literary and cultural lessons.... ancient history.

I spent most of my life on this earth winning souls for Jesus... spreading the good word.... witnessing, knocking on doors, reading my bible, memorizing the important verses, going to church every time the doors were open... becuase that was the right thing to do....

Well, I woke up. I look back now, at how ridiculous I must have seemed to people who had half a brain... I realized what I was missing. Since losing my religion (which happened over an extended period of time) never in my life have I been happier, more liberated... more free. I now love my life... i live it for me... i live it for love.

June 22, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Limric said, "Also. Our statements: “If we are forced to fight unjust wars, pay taxes and various fees, against our will - are we not already property of the state.” and “examples of the state trying to take power it was not intended to have” are essentially the same thing. Aka - Same difference. See."

No no no, we are not properties of the state but participants. We still have free speech and the freedom to try to change things just like many others have, i.e. MLK. He never got to realize his changes but they were made nonetheless. You also have the right and capability to move to another country if you do not want to participate in those taxes, wars, and fees. At least for now we are still free enough to do that.

June 22, 2011 at 3 p.m.
Leaf said...

Well, all this religion stuff seems pretty unlikely to me. But what does religion have to do with liberty and justice, anyway?

June 22, 2011 at 3:02 p.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Possiblian, You state that you "lost your religion", well I would argue that you never had a relationship with the real God/Jesus to begin with. It is not about a religion but about a relationship with Jesus Christ. Since you know so much about the Bible (God's Holy Word) then you probably also know that all of the other FACTUAL history tablets/books coincide with the Bible. There is much more evidence to prove there is a God and that the Bible is true then not. In fact, YOU claim there is no God, then I would challenge you to prove it. Many have tried and ended up a Christian, i.e. Josh McDowell who wrote "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" or Lee Strobel who wrote "The Case for Christ".

June 22, 2011 at 3:10 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

THE BIBLE IS A SMORGASBORD

People pick out the stuff they like and ignore the rest. The Bible has justified wars, slavery, hatred, so and so forth. So it goes.

I try to remember the Golden Rule although some of you on this sight know I've fallen short more than once. I am truly sorry for lashing out at those who lash out against me. I know the old expression, 'fight fire with fire,' but most people use water.

As long the Bible can be all things to all people I prefer to leave it alone. There is only one theory that makes sense to me, thank god! (JOKE)

Chaos. Bad things happen to both good and bad people. Good things happen to both good and bad people. Religious people opine, 'That's god's will.'

No, I think that's chaos. If religion gets you through bad times, good for you.

All of us walk around each day with bombs falling out of the sky, literally and figuratively. How many times have you said to yourself, 'Wow - I didn't see THAT coming.'

Next time something bad happens don't get mad at god.

That's life.

June 22, 2011 at 3:12 p.m.
Possiblian said...

Well nurseforjustice, I'm going to have to agree with you on a piece of what you said... you are right, I never had a real relationship with god to begin with... How can I have a relationship with something that does not exist. What I had a relationship with was the idea of a god and the practice of the religion, and the friends I made and had to impress through it all.

There is some historical fact in the bible, i will agree with that, but it is like any other historical fiction. Parts are true, parts are fiction. And as far as other stories I was referring to, can you tell me who Mithra is? That is just one example. All cultures across the globe have their own stories (most of which existed well before the time of jesus)... which may seem ridiculous to christians, but the christian religion also seems utterly ridiculous to them. Religion is cultural.

As far as proving there is no god... that's not for me. I am not in the business of proving the non-existence of something that has never actually been proven to exist to begin with... let's start with something we both agree exists, which is nature... trees, air, water, etc... we can both agree that those things do exist... NOW, prove to me that there IS a god... Like I said before, I am willing to change my mind... just show me the proof. Let's take this one step further... do not use the bible for your proof...

June 22, 2011 at 3:33 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Don't doubt God, doubt your doubts.

June 22, 2011 at 3:38 p.m.
limric said...

A universal truth: Philosophy and science ask questions that may never be answered. Religion on the other hand has answers that may never be questioned. And it's holy books are the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived.

Meka Leka High, Meka Hiney Ho - Long live Jambi.

June 22, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.
Possiblian said...

limric... i think i already said this, but i love you! lol :)

June 22, 2011 at 3:49 p.m.
alprova said...

Nurse wrote: "Hey Al, First I just want to say that I am not arguing with you."

I understand that perfectly. We're cool.

"I would just like to know the where the referrence is found for your statement above. "God vowed to not ever interfere with the affairs of Earth and free will by humans.""

This goes all the way back to my High School days, when you could actually take a course called "Literature of the Bible" which I took during my Sophomore year. I truly will never forget that course, nor all that I learned that year. It was one of my favorite of all classes in high school.

The best digest of part of what I learned back then and what has stayed with me all these years can be read at the link below.

http://www.branthills.ca/prayhtm.htm

Now, added to the above, as I recall, is the story of Lucifer's fall from Heaven and the resulting war between Satan and God. The passages escape me, but somewhere buried in the Bible is a verbal exchange between Satan and God where Satan vowed to do whatever he could to influence people of Earth to follow him in numbers high enough to one day claim Heaven for his own.

God's response was something along the lines that he would do nothing at all to influence a soul's ability to make choices of their own free will on Earth or interfere in the affairs of Earth, and Heaven would forever be his and there for the righteous who worship God.

"I do study the scriptures daily but they are so vast no one can know all that is in them. I just am not familiar with that statement by God. thanks"

I haven't had to look that up for years. I'm going to continue to seek the story in it's entirety and to find the applicable passages, if they are indeed to be found. On this, as I mentioned above, my belief on this goes back more than 35 years, and it came straight from the Bible.

But here's another thing I also remember from my young years; We had a lesson in Sunday School class where we were made to read one sentence in the Bible and write down our interpretation of it.

There were eleven of us in that class. We read our belief in what we read out loud. How many different interpretations do you think were read? Eleven of them. No one read it and believed the same thing. That has stuck with me for all these years too.

It may well be that I am not totally correct, as it would tend to negate the purpose of prayer and an invitation for God to intervene, and that which I have read over the past few hours makes a good case that there may well be times in which he does intervene, but then there is overwhelming evidence that he does not when it would make sense for him to do so.

Thus the fodder that exists for those who consider God to be non-existent.

June 22, 2011 at 4:55 p.m.
AndrewLohr said...

If Clay is cartooning about justice, bringing up a gross violation of justice is on topic. (Source for 163 million girls sentenced to death for being girls http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303657404576361691165631366.html?mod=wsj_share_facebook.) Mostly China, India, Morocco to Indonesia I suppose; some here no doubt. They may not say the pledge, but are they doing justice?

June 22, 2011 at 4:59 p.m.
alprova said...

Mr. Lohr, this is nothing that has not been discussed a thousand times over the past several decades. But that is their culture and no one, including yourself is going to change it.

What do any of you people who consider yourselves to be "pro-life" think you are going to accomplish by continuously demonizing that which has been going on since Earth started revolving, and that which will continue to occur until the end of all time?

No group of people will ever attain enough power to put and end to it in this nation, and no group of you will EVER put an end to it in Asia.

Posting the fact that no one is going to stop something does not translate in my endorsing abortion because I don't. What I do know is that for whatever reason there is under the Sun for seeking an abortion, it is absolutely none of my business to stick my nose into the affairs of those who have them.

What a shame it is that there are so many of you out there that have your noses where they do not belong. Fortunately, your hands are always going to be tied and your frustration will grow.

Did everyone give up on saving the whales? Maybe they have all been saved.

June 22, 2011 at 5:17 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Leaf said... "But what does religion have to do with liberty and justice, anyway?"

I am with you on that one Leaf.

June 22, 2011 at 5:26 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "What do any of you people who consider yourselves to be "pro-life" think you are going to accomplish by continuously demonizing that which has been going on since Earth started revolving, and that which will continue to occur until the end of all time?"

alprova, you keep using the "since the earth started revolving" arguement as a reason no one should waste their time in oppostion to abortion. Murder has been going on for about the same period of time. Does that mean you support murder and government funded murder?

Help me understand how your mind works.

June 22, 2011 at 5:29 p.m.
AndrewLohr said...

My wife and her mother have experienced miracles in a Christian context; therefore God--triune Jehovah--exists. Read Jim Rutz's book MEGASHIFT or Jack Deere's SURPRISED BY THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT and SURPRISED BY THE VOICE OF GOD for public, on-the-record accounts of miracles. (Muslim and Hindus don't claim miracles, so there's no evidence their gods exist.)

Evolutionists are looking for zillions of other universes, thereby admitting that the odds against evolution happening in just this one are too great. What God created shows the Creator exists.

Bible prophecies have been fulfilled. Foreknowledge shows God knows everything. At least one atheistic physicist said that, given atheism, foreknowledge is impossible. Prophecy shows God spoke to the prophets.

In 1 B.C. there was no Christian movement; in A.D. 65 Nero was persecuting "immense multitudes" of Christians in Rome according to Tacitus. There's gotta be at least some kind of Jesus. Liberals and conservatives agree he was crucified, like a dozen or so other messiah candidates in that era. So why'd the Jesus movement persist and grow? Because he rose from the dead. Which proves God exists. Read THE CHALLENGE OF JESUS by N. T. Wright, or even old Paley's HISTORICAL VIEW OF THE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY (that title may not be exactly stated.)

Jesus offers the ultimate in love--"God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). And by rising from the dead he shows the ultimate in power (Romans 1:3-7, I Cor 15:3-4). Marx, Mohammed, Darwin, Rockefeller, Gandhi, Buddha, FDR, JFK, and Reagan died and stayed dead. Jesus died and rose again. If there's injustice to be borne, God empathizes--His Son, perfectly innocent, was flogged and jeered and crucified. If there's punishment to be doled out, the Creator of Hell can dole it out: "the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever" (Rev). That's not His main line--Jesus mostly did miracles of healing--but it's within His repertoire--He did curse a fig tree, and He did NOT promise Paradise that day to the thug who was asking to get off the cross, asking for a stay of execution. To the extent evils are part of God's plan, they're not a part you're stuck in: repent and follow Jesus, and avoid Hell.

Re politics and justice, you all know what I like to say. Besides 'Jesus is libertarian,' would any of the atheists here go to North Korea for justice? Would any of the Muslims go to Saudi Arabia for justice? Christendom, however grossly flawed--and any reader of the Bible can see from end to end how messed up God's people tend to get--offers a better average of justice than atheism or Islam because denying the Trinity denies love and diversity-within-unity.

"Be ye holy for I am Holy" (OT and, uh, I or II Peter?)

June 22, 2011 at 5:37 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

EVERYBODY BELIEVES IN SOMETHING

I believe I'll have a Scotch.

June 22, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.
alprova said...

Big Ridge Patriot wrote: "alprova, you keep using the "since the earth started revolving" arguement as a reason no one should waste their time in oppostion to abortion. Murder has been going on for about the same period of time. Does that mean you support murder and government funded murder?"

If you had paid attention in the first grade, you would have learned to read. Nowhere have I written that I support abortion. You can't saddle me with that one, no matter how hard you try.

What I simply support is the concept of minding your own business when it comes to the issue or any others that do not personally affect or involve you. You and others like you have noses the size of Texas.

"Help me understand how your mind works."

You couldn't begin to understand how people with minds based in reality work. Further, you people are so utterly rude in your endeavor to intervene in the lives of others, that your minds think you have the right to invade the privacy of all other people.

People who have abortions are none of your business, Pinocchio nose.

June 22, 2011 at 8:22 p.m.
alprova said...

Andrew Lohr wrote: "????"

Yo soy de la opinión de que el Inglés no es su lengua materna.

¿Habla usted español?

June 22, 2011 at 8:39 p.m.
moonpie said...

Alprova, thanks for putting Andrew's video up.

I'll give Andrew this much..... He's not afraid to put it out there.

What I'd like to know is what's in the bottle beside the coffee cup?

June 22, 2011 at 9:20 p.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

standing in her front yard.

http://youtu.be/a7ZkFZkejv8

June 22, 2011 at 9:30 p.m.
fairmon said...

In the U.S. exist 6% of the world's population and 66% of the lawyers. The brilliant electorate selects a high percent to hold political office then either complain about too many laws or too few laws. Two popular lawyer chants "It isn't perfect but we have the best legal system in the world". How many Americans know enough about theirs or others to compare or challenge that myth. "We are a great nation because we are a land of laws". What do they mean, does that mean more is better? Justice for all if you can afford it or if the ACLU takes up your cause.

alprova,

You are finally right about one thing. What anyone else does that does not adversely affect me is none of my business nor do I want it to be. Contrary to your snide remark I have paid substantial taxes for years that annually exceeded the poverty level by a healthy margin. I could care less if some heifer wants to abort her kid unless I am ask to pay for the abortion. If tax money funds it then I have a right to pursue there be conditions attached. I have never and will not object to providing children with food, clothing and shelter and education while hoping someone will fulfill their emotional need for love and guidance.

When it starts affecting me it does become my business and I will make it my business to confront and try to affect a change about anything affecting me that I don't like. It is evident if you don't agree then you assume you are right and the other person is wrong. Your claim to being in the real world and self adulation is sickening.

When the government becomes mute on the abortion issue and removes all their intervention and control efforts then I will also become mute. Your philosophy about freedom of choice and personal freedom suggest you agree with me that drugs, prostitution and gambling should be made legal, regulated and taxed?

June 22, 2011 at 9:54 p.m.
alprova said...

Moonpie wrote: "What I'd like to know is what's in the bottle beside the coffee cup?"

It's funny that you mentioned that, because I had the same question when I saw that too. It loos suspiciously like some kind of alcohol, but then that would explain a lot when it comes to his recording sessions and his propensity to write in code.

June 22, 2011 at 10:36 p.m.
alprova said...

harp3339 wrote: "alprova, You are finally right about one thing. What anyone else does that does not adversely affect me is none of my business nor do I want it to be."

Hew refreshing.

"Contrary to your snide remark I have paid substantial taxes for years that annually exceeded the poverty level by a healthy margin."

As did I, for most of 22 years, however, lets be clear about something. No matter the amount you paid, when combined with that of all other taxpayers, still means that the chance that your taxes wound up in the pockets of a welfare recipient is almost non-existent. A penny every ten years or so. Welfare is a very small slice when it comes to entitlements. In fact, it is about 1% of the entire Governmental budget.

"I could care less if some heifer wants to abort her kid unless I am ask to pay for the abortion. If tax money funds it then I have a right to pursue there be conditions attached."

You have only a right in this country to pay your taxes and whine about the Government decides to spend them. Demand all you want, but no one in authority has to give you the time of day when you do demand something.

Apparently you do this through the Times Free Press website. Do you think the Government is reading what you demand?

"When it starts affecting me it does become my business and I will make it my business to confront and try to affect a change about anything affecting me that I don't like."

There is no scenario that you can cite that would begin to make it your business, so try to impress someone who doesn't have a brain. You're also never going to change what you don't like about it either, so whine all you want and piss in the wind in the face of reality. It just makes me laugh.

"It is evident if you don't agree then you assume you are right and the other person is wrong. Your claim to being in the real world and self adulation is sickening."

Then dispute the reality I cite with anything to the contrary that would improve your approval of the situation. It' not going to change.

"When the government becomes mute on the abortion issue and removes all their intervention and control efforts then I will also become mute."

Your problem is you and others like you think that the Government cares if you are not mute. They don't, so whine all you want. Not enough of you will ever attain enough power to change the status quo when it comes to abortion. The Supreme Court has ruled. So cry, whine, threaten, murder, whatever. The issue has been solved since 1973.

"Your philosophy about freedom of choice and personal freedom suggest you agree with me that drugs, prostitution and gambling should be made legal, regulated and taxed?"

As a matter of fact, there are certain substances classified as "drugs" that should be legal, prostitution, and gambling all three should indeed be legal, regulated, monitored, and taxed to the hilt.

June 22, 2011 at 11:05 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said; As a matter of fact, there are certain substances classified as "drugs" that should be legal, prostitution, and gambling all three should indeed be legal, regulated, monitored, and taxed to the hilt.

We do agree on a key issue that would be a tough sell to those wanting to win votes. Making these illegal doesn't work any better than alcohol prohibition did. Today's drug dealers, pimps, and bookies are like Capone and others that got wealthy from these activities plus bootlegging whiskey and intimidating merchants.

Moralist must fear they may be more tempted by these vices instead of realizing the number of participants would probably be fewer with education. They fail to realize how many jobs and how much tax revenue would result in addition to putting many drug cartels and other illegal activities out of business. Accepting logical laws does not mean one condones or will mimic the behavior of others exercising their personal freedom of choice.

I do think enough voter reaction and pressure does make a difference. I do and will keep writing and calling my congressman and senator and encouraging others to do so. The taxes of any one person, regardless of the amount, is an undetectable portion of 3+ trillion. Enough of those agreeing on an issue makes it detectable enough to possibly sway the ego driven vote seeker.

June 23, 2011 at 6:40 a.m.

Possiblian said...

“It won't be long til Christianity goes the way of Greek and Roman mythology. It will be studied about in school as a literary and cultural lessons.... ancient history.”


Not even Greeks and Romans took their gods seriously, which is why Greek and Roman religion remained confined to Greece and Rome. Christianity answered questions that Greek and Roman religions were incapable of answering. They cared for the destitute of their enemies, and they created and renewed civilizations in many parts of the world. Christianity is growing far faster the atheism, unless you are limiting your scope to Western Europe and coastal North America. Which is highly Possiblian. Oh for the day when Christianity will be studied about in school as a literary and cultural lessons.... ancient history. It doesn’t have ONLY that to offer. But it has AT LEAST that.

June 23, 2011 at 8:59 a.m.

Possiblian said...

“I am not opposed to changing my mind (unlike the religious folk)but I need cold hard facts... evidence. None of which can be found in a story book... especially when it is a book that has similar stories all across the globe throughout the ages all claiming to be THE ONE true story of our existence.... hmmm.”


“There is a God, leading atheist concludes: Philosopher says scientific evidence changed his mind” (AP, 12/9/2004)


June 23, 2011 at 9:01 a.m.
SavartiTN said...

Oh, Alprova, that video was priceless. It explains so much!

June 24, 2011 at 4:33 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

The way this country is going, I think the ommission of "under God" to be quite appropiate.

June 24, 2011 at 4:35 p.m.
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