published Sunday, December 2nd, 2012

The Makeover

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Reardon said...

Haha, I see those stupid statues here and there around East Tennessee. I never understood them.

December 2, 2012 at 6:20 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

The truth comes out. You are a racist pig, Clay.

How about giving that little guy a crack pipe and food stamps instead? It would not be more offensive.

December 2, 2012 at 8:20 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

Reardon, those little statues are called "lawn jockeys," and their purpose was the same as a hitching post -- for horses.

December 2, 2012 at 8:21 a.m.
conservative said...

Jesus is the reason for the season.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

December 2, 2012 at 8:29 a.m.
rolando said...

Ah, that's better. Back to slamming the now-in-the-minority GOP. That's the old Bennett...and the true one.

All those 'toons without featuring a GOP-bash sure failed in the number of comments department, didn't they? 'Guess that shows those conservative TFP editors/owners [if there are any]...

GOP bashing works here; anything else fails dismally.

December 2, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.
dude_abides said...

LOL, the republican party gets inclusive! What would the next token statement be, Christ on the Cross with an Afro? How about Klan robes in Pan-African colors?

conservative... the Lord just texted me from His iGod. He said to tell you to lose the 'reason for the season' shtick, it's hackneyed and omniboring.

December 2, 2012 at 9:10 a.m.
rolando said...

Here's a timely Christmas song, conservative. I enjoy going into a mall store and wishing all the sales staff a hearty, "Merry Christmas"...and watch them stumble over their words in total confusion. Then I turn and leave for the next store...and shop online.

December 2, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
rolando said...

We tolerate your right to believe [and say] whatever you...well...believe, dude. You believe it is "hackneyed and omniboring", well...go for it.

Just show us the same tolerance, huh? After all, He is the one who gave you that right...our Founding documents plainly state and even admit it.

Merry Christmas.

December 2, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And Mr Bennett's idea of outreach to conservatives is, uh, express contempt? How kind and loving these liberals are! How well they understand the concerns of those with different ideas!

December 2, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
potcat said...

Jockey boy should be holding a bridle, a harness for guiding a horse. The ones made these days are for holding a lantern and are decorative farm and lawn ornaments.

Having made and painted thousands of them, i have never painted a black one. I have also painted thousands of chickens,deer and birdbaths ETC. Looks like Clay is saying Repugnants are painting over the black because thats what they were originally painted, i get it.

December 2, 2012 at 9:29 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

dude, if you find boring the news that your Enemy loves you enough to walk in your shoes (so to speak) and to be executed for your treasonable rebellion so that your punishment is greatly mitigated, and that he defeated death in a way Marx and Mohammed did not, you deserve everlasting damnation a tad more (in that way) than I myself do. However sappy we Christians can be about it--and sinful--and however commercial the world gets, buring Jesus under wrapping paper and chocolate rabbits. Jesus loves His enemies. I try to--disagree with ideas, but love the people and give credit where due. Liberals...? Mr Bennett's music box seems stuck on a shrill note. (He can draw better than I, but perhaps not better than Adolf Hitler could.)

December 2, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Andrew... the Lord only wanted me to convey that conservative would do better to not slip into the 'Tick Tock' type of sales pitch employed by mymy when counting down the days until Obama was defeated. He said, "if I wanted my message to rhyme, don't you think my Book would have been full that stuff? 'Reason for the Season' sounds like something Hallmark or Martini & Rossi would throw out there, and I'm getting omnipissed off about it."

December 2, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

Hitch your horse to either party but don't be surprised if they don't steal it. Conservatives tend to be hypocritical control freaks. Democrats are blood sucking leaches. Many of their elected elite in both parties are wanna be Hollywood actors. Libertarians endorse and abide by the constitution, neither party appears willing or able to tolerate that.

Borrow, spend, print, fear and hope is not a winning strategy other than for getting elected. Both parties use the strategy but in different ways.

December 2, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
jesse said...

DON"T steal it???

December 2, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
degage said...

rolando, Thank you for the ACLU chior post, loved it. Where did you find that, I'd like to send it to family.

December 2, 2012 at 11:37 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Pagans are the reason for the season. Jesus is just freeloading.

December 2, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

AndrewLohr: Jesus is indeed a forgiver. Even of the hateful. Forgiving Dude_ might be a stretch, even for Jesus

December 2, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
mrtoons said...

He's just returning the same amount of love to repubs that they extend to libs. Methinks you ladies doth protest more out of habit than anything else.

December 2, 2012 at 11:52 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

It's that time of year, when all you want to hear, is Jesus is the reason and be of good cheer.

So to the Christians among you, You need to be sung to, To spread the Jesus message, Of which you've always clung to.

For Andrew, JD, and Conny, Here's a little sonnet, Of Christmas time that's so divine, So stick this in your bonnet.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151728/merry-fing-christmas

December 2, 2012 at 12:09 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

It's been a few days and the right still refuses to look in the mirror DJHBRAINERD said... Perfect cartoon.... Just read the comments comming from the right if you want validation. I've read it was the primary fight I've read it's the gifts but what I've not read is how the Republicans can move away from the far right. By far right I mean the core of of the party that lives to demean others.
Did any one else notice the right's assault on lifestyle choices? How about the refusal to aknowledge science? Don't have a job..... after we ushered in NAFTA, CAFTA... you are a lazy taker. No the right want's a return to Mayberry where white two parent households pray over dinner. Print a few more Norman Rockweller paintings while all the girls are virgins till married. Let us bow our heads.
What the right should be doing is telling the silent majority that they are the vocal minority. STOP BEING EXCLUSIVE! There are other ways to live.
I know this is hard to understand when everyone in your gated community agrees with you but you are irrelivent. If you want to be a major player start including others that agree with you on fisical issues and leave the personal choices to the person making them. You are not the morality police. Stop demeaning others and expand your world view.
A good place to start would be the LIbraterians. Fisically conservative and socially liberal. It is time to look in the mirror and become inclusive. Your trickle down world view might sell to Hispanics looking for work if you weren't trying to send grandma back home... putting pot smokers in jail, the war on christmas? come on man that ship has sailed. Your base left the cities in the 70's because of "them" and can't figure out why "they" are not voting the way they should. You got two years to figure it out. so here is a clue: Let people live their lives and try to help them to better themselves without telling them all the ways they are doing it wrong. Love thy neighbor as you love thyself. If not you are just thumping it not living it!

November 27, 2012 at 4:56 p.m. permalink suggest removal

December 2, 2012 at 12:21 p.m.
Maximus said...

As for Dude and Jesse, Bad Karma is uncool. Maybe ya'll will last through the holidays. Watch your back and don't go out if it's lightening. As for the KKK, that organization was started by Democrats. As for the yard jockey....after 4 more years of economic downturn and military boondogles the Democrat brand will be so trashed even the usual Democrat target markets will be ready for an adult to be in charge for a change...a Republican adult that is. My vote right now is to give the Dude, Jessee, Hiilary, and all the Democrats everything Barry Cetera wants. Keyesnian, kick the can down the road to other poor bastards, economics do not work and will trash the country. Yes, it will take another decade to dig ourselves out of the Obama nightmare but I own tons of real estate, have $1.9 million in my IRA, collect two well funded private sector pensions and own two homes with their own generators, ample food supplies, weapons, and ammo. Both of my kids never bought in to the Obama victim program so they are both well employed in the private sector and self reliant. Yes my family is more like that great American Chuck Norris than those girly union men in Ohio and Michigan. Give Obama everything he wants and watch it all go to Ka Ka! I'll be fine, will you? Oh I forgot, I bought $10,000 worth of gold three years ago and just recently gave half of it to the Wounded Warriors Foundation. A great organization I highly recommend. One Nation Under God Forever and Ever Amen!!

December 2, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

It amazes me that the republican party would go out of its way to demonize anyone who does not believe in an anglosaxon world view then look surprised when only WASP's vote for them... well duh. Just getting suckered into talking about lifestyle choices and birth control was a trap from the begining. The strenth of the party is holding the line on government spending then as soon as power was granted in 2000 the neocons turned into democrates giving "gifts" to their voting block. Now in the minority they cry about the debt and the spending. Get a grip on yourselves, both parties are doing the same thing, printing money and buying votes, so why do we keep sending them back? To save the unborn, God told us to do it? For what reason? Dejarlas anyone? Now instead of finding a way to be inclusive the republicans are finding the whitest colored people they can dance in front of the camara, with the same world view, and hoping that people want notice it's just a dog and pony show with no real change in thinking. This at a time when people are open to a new message. A message of sustainablity. Economicaly, enviromentally and socially. For a new litmus test think to yourself, If I'm tlaking about someones sex life or what they do in thier home / bedroom I have already lost the arguement. Do you get it now? Socially liberal and fisically conservative. Try that instead of parading a few uncle toms in front of the camara

December 2, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "rolando, Thank you for the ACLU chior post, loved it. Where did you find that, I'd like to send it to family."

degage, center your mouse pointer in the middle of the video above while it is not playing and right click your mouse. Click on "Copy video url." Then right click your mouse again in the e-mail text box you send to your relatives and then click on "paste."

Wallah!! Instant video..

December 2, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.
fairmon said...

jesse said... DON"T steal it???

Thanks..I sure screwed that up jesse....should have said don't be surprised if they steal it. I stand by the rest of the statement.

December 2, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
jesse said...

i wonder if Maximus has fired all them Obama voters yet!

I been watchin the unemployment #'s they haven't gone up so i guess not!

Harp, i fig.that! your more cynical about pols than i am,and that ain't easy !

December 2, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
Maximus said...

Jesse, used to own three businesses now I'm just an independent investor. I did not have any bam bam supporters to fire. I do know this djhbrain is another miserable obamer supporter. Why so sad dog face? Bet u r curled up with your doggie and a gallon of fudge ripple right now. As one of my buds says on the contraception abortion non-issue...."That boat rows both ways. If I knock up one of my girlfriends she better damn well be able to get an abortion if I'm payin for it! Them damn things cost $250 the planned parenthood." Abortion, contraception is a Democrat talking point designed to heard young women to the Dem side. VEry similar to Obama nationalizing student loans to attract young voters. Its a business people and the party with the best messaging and business plan wins. As I have stated Axelrod and Plouf won the past two elections for Bam Bam not some dreamy plan Bam Bam has to better the country. The sooner you understand that math, money, business and the free market rule in the U.S. and that that is a very good thing the more successful you and your family will be. Do you think that Obmama and his family will ever want for anything after he leaves the presidency. Bill Clinton charges $100,000 per speech!! Better get off your ass and go to work if you want to make it in this country. Bill and Obama did!

December 2, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

DJHbrainless just pissed cause he was first to take a seat in past spelling bees. Sheesh, what a boot-noot.

December 2, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Rolando, I watched that music video you posted. What a catchy melody! And the woman singing it has a beautiful voice too. Too bad the message being conveyed is that of such small minded bigots.

Any religion whose message is less about love and peace and harmony but more about gaining the upper hand and demanding that its way is the only "right" way, to the exclusion of all others, is not really a religion of love at all. It's only about its own arrogance.

We are living in a multi-cultural society today, whether you like it or not. Merchants have to deal with all manner of varying beliefs of people all day, every day. For them to say or advertise "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" shows that they respect ALL of their customers, not just those who believe like you Christians do. If "Jesus is the reason for the season" according to your beliefs, well then, good for you - you have your home and your church and your like-minded friends and relatives to share it all with. But when shopping in the public arena where all other people of varying beliefs shop, it's only reasonable for the merchants to try to be inclusive and respectful of their customers as they cater to the many different beliefs.

You evangelical Christians are disgusting in your self-righteousness and arrogance. You're so full of yourselves you can't see how full of yourselves you really are.

December 2, 2012 at 2:01 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Maximus.... I hope you are better at math than at reading comprehension or political science. If it matters to you I am a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Gary Johnson this time around. All your post has done is validate my point. Your party demonizes anyone who does not toe the trickle down line and can't seem to figue out the idea is to get votes not piss off everyone who might hold a sligtly different world view than the religious right. So go ask someone who looks and thinks just like you to validate your opinion. I was offering constructive critisim of a party that is 30 yrs behind on social issues to try to focus on an uplifting fisical message to reach minorities and to stay away from abortion terry shivo and gay sex. These turn off voters and don't put fudge ripple on the table. Like you said it is a business people and the best business is to stay out of the personal business and stick to the math money business and free market messege the more sucsessful your party will be. Would you care to call me another name? Piss off another possible supporter? Hows that working for the GOP?

December 2, 2012 at 2:05 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Good job jack , made two sentences work together, you're halfway to a paragraph. Would you care to comment on substance or spelling?

December 2, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

littleRicky: You lefties have redefined bigotry. Look inward, Comrade.

December 2, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Yet another knee-jerk put-down from JD. Yawn.

December 2, 2012 at 2:19 p.m.
degage said...

Thanks Al, but I went to the link itself and sent it that way. I will remember your instructions for next time.

December 2, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

littlericky: no put-down. just fact. you lefties have turned into the bigoted haters.

December 2, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.
rolando said...

Rickoroo -- As I told dude earlier,

"We tolerate your right to believe [and say] whatever you...well...believe, [Rickaroo]. You believe it is "hackneyed and omniboring", well...go for it.

"Just show us the same tolerance, huh? After all, He is the one who gave you that right...our Founding documents plainly state and even admit it.

"Merry Christmas."

December 2, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Degage, I encourage you to send that music video to as many people as you can. Anyone concerned with what the spirit of the season should truly be about - love, peace, joy, and good will to all, will see how reprehensible that piece of garbage is. It will expose evangelical xtians for the arrogant bigots they really are.

You have every right to worship a mythical babe in a manger if you want to, but Christmas is just as much a secular holiday to secularists as it is a religious one to you xtians. And it is just as much Hanukkah to the Jews or Kwanzaa to black people. I have yet to see any Jews or blacks demanding that shop keepers say Happy Hanukkah or Happy Kwannzaa. It seems that only evangelical xtians are so annoyingly arrogant.

December 2, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

""We tolerate your right to believe [and say] whatever you...well...believe." - rolando

No, you don't! Not at all. You are insisting that store owners bow down and say exactly what you want them to say, just because you have been conditioned to think that your "reason for the season" should be every other person's reason for the season. "Happy Holidays" is inclusive to everybody, without disrespecting anyone's individual beliefs. You are free to make Christmas whatever you want to make it in your home, church, or in the homes of your like-minded friends and relatives. But you are acting like spoiled children throwing a tantrum, all because you're being expected to respect other people's differing beliefs when out in public and your precious "Merry Christmas" no longer gets top billing like it used to.

December 2, 2012 at 3:56 p.m.
rolando said...

It really hurts to spell out Christian, Rikcaroo? Others have that problem, too.

It evidently bothers you to no end that others see something more than crass profit in Christmas. But that's your problem...try to live with it without envying those who believe differently.

Your Christmas means nothing but gifts and parties...and a day off -- evidently that's all. How shallow.

Merry Christmas.

December 2, 2012 at 3:59 p.m.
rolando said...

No, Rickaroo, I support those who support the true Christmas and not the money-making day they have turned it into.

Jesus threw the moneychangers out of His temple, after all. I would figuratively follow His lead.

He specifically made room in His "temple" for all, Jews and gentiles alike. That applies to Christmas -- even for you who celebrates the day for whatever reason.

December 2, 2012 at 4:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

littlerickyroo makes room for ALL in his temple. So long as they are to the left of Marx.

December 2, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Rolando, I find it amusing that you "support the true Christmas and not the money-making day they have turned it into" but you obviously care deeply about whether stores say "Merry Christmas" or not. If you are so opposed to the crass commercialism, then why give give a rat's a## whether the stores say "Happy Holidays" or whatever else? Why not just leave the stores and the shoppers alone and let them carry on in their decadent, non-xtian manner? Also, you don't seem to refrain entirely from the crass "money-making" aspect of Christmas anyway, if you go online to do your shopping.

I have complete respect for those few Christians who actually LIVE their love and respect for other human beings and don't preach that their way is the only way to believe - and those Christians are indeed few and far between. But for the vast majority of evangelicals who are so arrogant and self righteous that they insist their religion is the only way to "salvation" or that Jesus is the only true reason for the season, like you and most of the ones who post on here, I'm sorry but I have no respect at all for such conceit and narrow, delusional thinking.

And having said that, I've wasted enough time going back and forth with you. I have better things to do now. Peace and...Merry Xmas.

December 2, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

what an a-hole

December 2, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Jesus is the reason for the season :

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

December 2, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Yeah, JD...and your temple only holds those to the far far far far far far far right of John Birch and Joe McCarthy. Fruitcake. I've wasted enough time with you too. I'll leave this forum to you now. You obviously have nothing better to do with your time than to stay here all day long every day, sitting on your tired old ass and typing your unoriginal right wing gibberish. Go for it, dude.

December 2, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis said... "AndrewLohr: Jesus is indeed a forgiver. Even of the hateful. Forgiving Dude_ might be a stretch, even for Jesus"

God said to tell you that what you've let happen to your body is an abomination and that you should stop deciding what is and isn't a stretch for Jesus. He said you should listen to Sanjay Gupta and try a 'meatless Monday' every once in a while, for His sake. He also thought that you weren't going to address dude_ anymore, but, He guesses, that hate has to get out somehow.

December 2, 2012 at 5:02 p.m.
potcat said...

Maxi mus be watching way to many DoomsDay shows. Methinks he is full of delusional fantasy money envy. He doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

The Welfare private business he touts is uninformed BS.

Notice he had to get in, i'm a Patriot of the highest order.

He understands math and the Free Market, one little problembo with that Maxi mus, ITS NOT FREE!!!

He can't stop with having one pension, he has to have two. Two words sum you up,exaggeration and sanctimony.

Chuck Norris says it all, way to much TV.

December 2, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
joneses said...

What bennett is saying is the Republicans need to offer free stuff to get people to vote for them. Teaching people to accept poverty as a way of life by living off the backs of the people that work in this country is hussein obastard's and the other dummycrats job. Most that rely on the government for their survival are destined to live in poverty.

December 2, 2012 at 5:11 p.m.
Maximus said...

Who the hell is Gary Johnson? Between DJHBrain and Pothead me thinks me smell some wacky tobacky. Potboy for your info I worked 20 years for one Fortune 500 Company and 15 years for another and that's how I got the two very generous private sector pensions. Pothead I did it by doing something foreign to your kind....work. As usual my only hope is that Obama and now Gary Johnson can make everything fair and that no one will ever ever get their feelings hurt again. If only Government would do more for us then we could spend more quality time with our families like they do in China. And one more thing for Ron Paul girlie with the cats its all about the gangie ain't it.

December 2, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.
tderng said...

DJHBRAINERD said... Maximus.... I hope you are better at math than at reading comprehension or political science. If it matters to you I am a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Gary Johnson this time around. And, Try that instead of parading a few uncle toms in front of the camara.

First...Help,help, I'm drowning in bull$hit. And...what a racist prick would call an African-American who didn't agree with their world view.

December 2, 2012 at 6 p.m.
potcat said...

Foreign to my kind,Hmmmm.

Pothead, wrong again but i have nothing against it. If one can use the worst drug in the world "Alcohol" then you should be able to smoke pot.

Maxi thou needs to go back to watching your programs and find that pot to piss in because your full of it.

December 2, 2012 at 6:16 p.m.
degage said...

Dude aren't you the one that tried to say you aren't an atheist? And I came back and said your posts make it look like it. after reading your mocking of God I stand by that statement You are an atheist.

December 2, 2012 at 6:44 p.m.

And to think, once it was the other way around.

My how things change.

December 2, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

degage said... "Dude aren't you the one that tried to say you aren't an atheist? And I came back and said your posts make it look like it. after reading your mocking of God I stand by that statement You are an atheist."

I am not an atheist, but I can think of many things worse than atheism. I mean, the antichrist wouldn't be an atheist, right? You can stand by any statement you want, degage, but God told me that if you don't donate to the family of Eddie Pitman, the 14 year old hero in Brainerd that saved his siblings from the fire, He would put a boil on your a$$ that could be confused for a third buttock!

December 2, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.
Maximus said...

I'm trying to decide which car to get my wife for Christmas. Which do ya'll think she would prefer the Ice Blue Audi A7 or the new BMW 750 in Beluga Black. Such decisions at this time of year...my,my........

December 2, 2012 at 8:55 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: atheist, ?? a-hole, check

December 2, 2012 at 9:18 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_, if that's a checklist, I'll thank you to leave that body part to me, regardless of your apparent interest. Further, I'd suggest protection if you're some sort of amateur proctologist. Not judging, mind you, just noticing how often you mention that term... perhaps there's a fixation you don't realize you're experiencing. There are clinics that claim that they can "brainwash you straight." Need a link?

December 2, 2012 at 10:18 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

contractions, tiny noggins. contractions.

December 2, 2012 at 10:41 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

Jesus is the reason for the season. Roman Emperor Constantine said so. Constantine, seeing those wacky pagans with their sun worship rituals, decided to co-opt their traditions with a declaration of the birth of Christ conveniently falling at the same time as Saturnalia. It was an effort to "meet the heathen halfway" and convert pagans to Christianity. Of course pagans were considered by many to be heathens because they are polytheists. However, Franklin Graham recently took polytheists off of his list of undesirables so if you are a pagan, it's all good.

Some Christian historians view Constantine in a negative light. His desire to swell the ranks of the church led him to allow many unscrupulous hypocrites only looking to increase their social and political stature to climb-the-ranks within the church. Today's church is serious about putting the kibosh on that kind of behavior and will form an exploratory committee scheduled to meet in May of 2032, weather permitting.

December 3, 2012 at 1:09 a.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"There are clinics that claim that they can "brainwash you straight." Need a link? --dude_abides"

For more information, Dr. Marcus "It's prom season!" Bachmann can be reached at www.BarbariansAtTheBackdoor.com.>

fairmon said...

Maximus said... I'm trying to decide which car to get my wife for Christmas. Which do ya'll think she would prefer the Ice Blue Audi A7 or the new BMW 750 in Beluga Black. Such decisions at this time of year...my,my........

Both are imports. The producing countries will appreciate the jobs. Those foreign owned auto producers in the U.S. appreciate the wealth transfer of the cash flow home. An American auto label does not guarantee it is made in America, if it is a lot of the parts are imported.

December 3, 2012 at 4:36 a.m.
jesse said...

Max,

stay in your price bracket,a used Yugo sounds about your speed!

December 3, 2012 at 5:05 a.m.
degage said...

now we know who dude is. He said God said I should donate to 14 yr old eddie pitman. Dude is only 14, thats why his posts are so silly.

December 3, 2012 at 6:33 a.m.
dude_abides said...

degage... you... how the... what exactly... can't you... nevermind.

December 3, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.
rolando said...

Go for the BMW 750, Maxi. Last I heard the 7 Series are made in Germany, although South Africa [also highly competent] is a possibility.

Or, as a barbarian in an attempt to be cutesy-poo facetiously remarked, buy her both...

[Unionized American autoworkers produce s^^t. Even China produces better Chevys.]

December 3, 2012 at 8:10 a.m.
fairmon said...

This cartoon doesn't appear to be generating a lot of interest, which is no surprise. Who will blink first in the D.C. poker play off? Both parites keep allowing special interest to sucker them into social agendas instead of what is best for the country. Jobs that pay decent wages, a fiscally responsible military/defense, a decent plan to address entitlement cost, providing for the less fortunate while enabling them to be self sufficient, partnerships with states to care for the elderly, the disabled and children, stop policing the world and use the money disbursed as foreign aid for domestic aid. legalize, aggressively regulate/enforce and tax gambling, prostitution and drugs.

December 3, 2012 at 8:12 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Jeez, I just read through a bunch of posts and I've come to the decision that Republicans are brain-damaged.

December 3, 2012 at 8:16 a.m.
rolando said...

Bennett has been off his feed for almost a week now, harp. Buyer's remorse, perhaps?

Or maybe this is why?

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2012/11/29/bill-oreilly-america-needs-leaders

This extract is arguably the crux of the issue:

"The American media discourages bold leadership because it attacks politicians based on ideology. So many strong leaders don't even bother running not wanting to punish themselves and their family."

We get the government we deserve...

December 3, 2012 at 8:27 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Tu_quoque peddles: “This 50-something, white, conservative Republican wishes to thank America’s youth for sacrificing their financial futures and standard of living so that boomers . . . can look forward to a long and comfy retirement. . . The debt. . . largely driven by baby boomers piling into the Social Security and Medicare systems etc.”

Wow! . . . What a whooper! . . Talk about misinformation. . . Some role model you 50-ish white conservative Republicans have become. . . Shame on you, Tu_quoque. . . It wasn’t our Nation’s elderly citizens and the Social Security program that created our financial woes and you know it. . . They worked and paid their taxes.

To peddle this devious crap is disgraceful. It’s no wonder that younger voters have learned to distrust the Republican Party. . . You speak with forked tongue. . . Indeed, you remind of some of these self serving corporate CEOs - the real culprits:

“WASHINGTON -- The corporate CEOs who have made a high-profile foray into deficit negotiations have themselves been substantially responsible for the size of the deficit they now want closed.

The companies represented by executives working with the Campaign To Fix The Debt have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that virtually eliminate the companies' tax bills.

The CEOs are part of a campaign run by the Peter Peterson-backed Center for a Responsible Federal Budget, which plans to spend at least $30 million pushing for a deficit reduction deal in the lame-duck session and beyond.

During the past few days, CEOs belonging to what the campaign calls its CEO Fiscal Leadership Council -- most visibly, Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein and Honeywell's David Cote -- have barnstormed the media, making the case that the only way to cut the deficit is to severely scale back social safety-net programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security -- which would disproportionately impact the poor and the elderly.

As part of their push, they are advocating a "territorial tax system" that would exempt their companies' foreign profits from taxation, netting them about $134 billion in tax savings, according to a new report from the Institute for Policy Studies titled "The CEO Campaign to ‘Fix’ the Debt: A Trojan Horse for Massive Corporate Tax Breaks" -- money that could help pay off the federal budget deficit.

Yet the CEOs are not offering to forgo federal money or pay a higher tax rate, on their personal income or corporate profits. Instead, council recommendations include cutting "entitlement" programs, as well as what they call "low-priority spending."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/25/deficit-reduction-council-fiscal-cliff_n_2185585.html#slide=more246059

December 3, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
rolando said...

Corporations are NOT taxed, mt. It just looks that way.

All such "taxes" are merely passed on to the customers, "which would disproportionately impact the poor and the elderly."; as do all tax increases.

Checked the price of groceries lately? How about insurance? Property tax? [Guess who pays for the feds Sandy largess? All those tax dollars are bounced right back to the customers as higher rates -- to all of us who buy insurance, anyway.]

It goes on and on...and the poor and elderly always get the short stick -- always have, always will...that's called socialism.

December 3, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Rolando, Bill Oreilly makes an excellent point (can't believe I just typed that), but I think this fella does a better job of accurately portraying the actual causes surrounding the issue of our countries poor leadership.

Oh, not to misrepresent myself, and I do, and did vote ;)

December 3, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Rolando says: "Corporations are NOT taxed, mt. It just looks that way. . . All such "taxes" are merely passed on to the customers, "which would disproportionately impact the poor and the elderly."; . . . Checked the price of groceries lately? . . . It goes on and on...and the poor and elderly always get the short stick -- always have, always will...that's called socialism."

So tell us, Rolando, how many purchases have you made from corporations like Boeing, Honeywell, Goldman Sachs and boutique investment banks like Greenhill & Co. – the corporations that are primarily responsible for the size of the deficit and headed by these CEO’s who are so eager to cut Social Security and America’s social safety net programs?

December 3, 2012 at 9:46 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

laurel: I'm with you dems on this....let's NOT cut spending...just increase taxes. Spending cuts likely to piss off dem constituents. Not complicated.

December 3, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

George Carlin was an excellent writer as well. His book, "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops" is hilarious and thought provoking, and provokes all those religious wankers that America produces in abundance.

George Carlin is my personal Savior and certainly better company than that unreal sanctimonious, sourpuss, unfunny JC.

December 3, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.
jesse said...

EVERYBODY on here should be REQUIRED to watch the video Dao posted!The man just nailed it!

It's funny as hell BUT so true it makes all this rabid partisanship seem FOOLISH!

December 3, 2012 at 10 a.m.
Churchwell said...

Bennett has taken the premise of "making us think" and thrown it away with this utterly racist trash. His outrage at anything resembling non-leftist views is always described in the most base and insulting way. This actually makes the cross burning cartoon look tame.

In fact, Bennett has again proven his own racist agenda through clear illustration. Unfortunately Republicans, moderate or conservative, cannot fight back at the risk of bearing labels. How can he be called creative if his single line of thinking is to bash Republicans?

December 3, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dayton: Perfect. You and Carlin are a match made in.......wait.....someplace.

December 3, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
dao1980 said...

C'mon now Jack, don't act all mad at Brother Carlin, he was referring to all of us, not just you.

And for your reference to hell, I offer you this, for a good chuckle.

December 3, 2012 at 10:50 a.m.
moonpie said...

Churchwell,

Ask minorities who they think is racist. Ask them who works against their interests. Ask them who proposes legislation to keep them from the polls.

Google "Are rebublicans" and the top fill-in answer is "racist". Many of the other top fill ins are very negative including "evil" or "stupid".

Google "Are democrats" and the top fill-in answer is "liberal". Other top answers are not insulting.

While not scientific, this is a window into the trends of perceptions and concerns about how people view the party.

Republicans have a real image problem.

Putting a white face on a lawn jockey is racist? It's just saying Republicans don't have substantial plans or policies which address the concerns of minorities. I realize that Republicans believe their policies are good for everyone. Perhaps better messaging is needed. Perhaps they should try building bridges, rather than saying that anyone who votes for Obama is a "taker".

December 3, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis said...

"dayton: Perfect. You and Carlin are a match made in.......wait.....someplace."

Reason and science, not supernatural BS.

December 3, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dayton123: You have science disproving the existence of God? Where can I look that up?

dao: I don't recall making a reference to hell.

December 3, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.

rolando, even the most monopolistic corporation would have to realize that they can't siphon profits off to infinity. At some point, they can't keep paying themselves off.

Keep pretending that "socialism" causes the poor and elderly to suffer, but in reality, that socialist medicare, those socialist food stamp programs? Have had a positive impact.

Of course, so would increased wages for employees, and even reduced working hours. That great "capitalist" Henry Ford knew that, he may have been wrong about many things, but not everything.

You can pretend that the tax cuts favored by Republicans somehow help the poor, but if they did, then why has the wage gap grown?

December 3, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Right, Bulbous. More spending AND tax increases clearly the way to help the poor

December 3, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis said...

"dayton123: You have science disproving the existence of God? Where can I look that up?"

Those that make claims are required to provide proof.

Didn't you ever take logic in school? No need to answer as I already know.

As Christopher Hitchens said, "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

That sums up god, gods, devils, demons, angels, witches, and holy roller's literal beliefs.

December 3, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Here's a site which asks the all important question, "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?"

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

Answer: There is no god.

December 3, 2012 at 11:24 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Jack, that's why so many posters don't feel that you are worth conversing with.

You either don't even get your own implications, or are painfully deluding yourself that by claiming "ya didn't" when "ya did" is skillfully coy.

I find it hard to believe that you don't even understand your own jokes.. but.. well... maybe you really are as sharp as pre-congealed jello?

December 3, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
miraweb said...

I've been watching John Boehner make the circuit with his puppy dog eyes sadly proclaiming that he just can't see his way to a tax increase until all the waste, fraud, and abuse go away.

I would love to see an interview like this:

Q. So, Speaker Boehner - you believe there is a lot of waste, fraud and abuse in the U.S. government.

A. That's right. We have all the money we need, if we just put it in the right places.

Q. And how long have you been in Congress, sir?

A. I am coming up on 22 years in the House of Representatives.

Q. And you are the Speaker of the House of Representatives?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. The same House where all spending bills must originate?

A. Yep.

Q. And you have been specifically tasked with oversight over government agencies?

A. Uh, huh.

Q. And that has been your job for 22 years?

A. Sure thing!

Q. And in 22 years you haven't located the waste, fraud, or abuse in government?

A. Nope.

Q. Really?

December 3, 2012 at 11:32 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Jack_Dennis said: "I'm with you dems on this....let's NOT cut spending...just increase taxes. Spending cuts likely to piss off dem constituents. Not complicated.”

Guess you didn’t notice that these corporate CEOs like the ones from Boeing and Honeywell are not proposing to cut spending when it comes to their government "defense" contracts, which obviously benefit their corporations. . . No, what these self-serving corporate CEOs are peddling is to cut social safety net programs like Social Security – a program that did nothing to create the deficit. Indeed, how convenient for these CEOS to ignore the role they’ve played in creating the deficit and the fact that workers pay in to Social Security and soon to be retirees have paid in to Social Security through their whole working lives. . . Why is this, Jack?

December 3, 2012 at 11:49 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

For a great example of crony capitalism look no further than Life Care Centers of America based in Cleveland, TN. Using Medicare, the company has defrauded the taxpayers out of hundreds of millions, if not billions of tax dollars. Yet Life Care claims to be a Christian organization that never misses a chance to wave Old Glory while screwing taxpayers for God and Country.

This is also the same Life Care that Greg Vital and Mike Carter worked for.

Not only was Life Care stealing money, some of their "therapy" procedures were harmful to patients so Life Care could collect even more money.

You don't have to go to Washington to look for crooks. They're all around you, waving the flag and wearing the robe of Jesus.

December 3, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dao: Not interested in conversing with you mopes...I just state my opinion. Get that, MY opinion. Not talking points that most of you loons utilize. BTW, I think most of you loons are probably a force of one, using bogus names. the tone, tenor, agenda, etc. just too similar. That you, Clay? How many names have you used on here, Dao? Hmmmm? Tell the truth if it's in your lying, leftist, soul. (sorry, soul is a no-no, no?)

December 3, 2012 at 12:18 p.m.
rolando said...

dao, your G. Carlin cite was spot on, as he so often is. O'Reilly does pretty well himself, although I don't always agree with him.

It is indeed the voters who cause our problems/solutions; I wonder if they will ever get it. I haven't missed a local, state, or federal election since I turned 21 [voting age then]. JFK was my first...those Democrats were different than today's.

December 3, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
dao1980 said...

That's right Jack, we're all the same person, every single poster that you dislike is the same person using different screen names.

We are all after you, and we're watching you.. from across the divide.. we're all McCarthy's ghost, sent back to haunt anyone who's not a commie.... ooooooooOOOOOOOooooo... spoooky huh?

December 3, 2012 at 12:25 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Miraweb said to Speaker John Boehner:

Q. And in 22 years you haven't located the waste, fraud, or abuse in government?

A. Nope.

Q. Really?

Do you think if you handed Speaker Boehner a mirror and told him you that know the people responsible for failing to locate the waste, fraud, and abuse, he would catch on?

December 3, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
rolando said...

mt -- you are saying large corporations do not pass their increased costs onto the customers? How do they stay in business? Each of them has competitors, some overseas. Most are conglomerates who buy up smaller competing business or just expand -- that Mexican multi-billionaire who wants to buy Hostess Brands, for instance. Your government bailed out some of them...and forced others into self-destructive bankruptcies.

Nice spin, though, but you completely ignore the real lifeblood businesses of America -- the small ones.


In an earlier life I dealt with a few of those companies you mentioned; I might add the government has no knowledge whatsoever of responsible [much less reasonable] negotiation practices...and even then, they are incompetent, as always.

December 3, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Rolando, I aspire to one day take part in every election available to me on all levels. I do admire your vigilance in the face of such often depressing choices in our local, state, and federal elections. We should all take each opportunity to vote as valuable.

When I was younger, I unfortunately took Mr. Carlin's unproductive view of voting as voiced in that stand up routine. But I've worked from year to year in ridding myself of those terrible "apathies" that prevented me from casting my vote.

December 3, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
rolando said...

Further, mt, you forget about all those highly paid, highly skilled workers [in the addition to those same executives] who actually work for a living producing valuable products. According to Boeing's website, they contribute more than $1Billion to the AMERICAN economy EACH WEEK.

So...of that $1Billion EACH WEEK [$52Billion a year], how much should the CEOs who design, implement, and supervise that kind of product be worth? One-tenth of one percent? Give us a number.

December 3, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.
rolando said...

I should have said "all of the elections in which I could vote", dao. Disenfranchising the military vote is nothing new. You have to receive an absentee ballot in time to return it before your vote counts. But "trying" is the key.

And yes, I have voted for "the lesser of two evils" on numerous occasions...accompanied by many head-shakes.

December 3, 2012 at 1 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Chris Hitchins and George Carlin. Now there's (was) a couple of role models. Bwahahahaha

December 3, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MSNBC host Chuck Todd reported that a "very smart White House aide" told him that "with this Republican, with the way politics of Washington are today, there'd still be slavery." Watch here:

You loons on here should recruit this guy....he's right down your alley.

December 3, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.
dao1980 said...

I can relate Rolando. It seems like this voting thing comes with too many head-shakes to take seriously some times.

As I said, I do appreciate your example. I feel like the more people that I come into contact with that take up that responsibility, the more encouraged I feel to do the same.

Also, I think allot of folks make the common mistake of only concentrating on the big elections, and neglect to realize that the smaller local and state government elections will much more directly affect us in a personal way.

It's such a frustrating actuality, that real and physical solutions to our social and economic growing pains get lost in frivolous partisan battles and ideological grandstanding.

But one thing is for sure, when the day comes that my vote does matter, I don't want to be caught at home complaining that it doesn't.

December 3, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Jack, you need a big sip of castor-oil. You would surely feel better if you cleaned your system of all that angry crappola.

December 3, 2012 at 1:36 p.m.
jesse said...

George Carlin was a "truth teller" in the tradition of Lenny Bruce!

Very little of that goin around these days!

December 3, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Rolando says: “you forget about all those highly paid, highly skilled workers [in the addition to those same executives] who actually work for a living producing valuable products. According to Boeing's website, they contribute more than $1Billion to the AMERICAN economy EACH WEEK.

And what about the contributions that workers in other areas have made . . . the same people who’ve been paying in to Social Security through their whole working lives, Rolando? Surely, you’re not suggesting their work efforts and contributions are of less value to our society than the work efforts of Boeing employees. . . Are you?

December 3, 2012 at 1:43 p.m.

Jack_Dennis, burning money in barrels would do better than spending less money and cutting the taxes of the wealthy.

Money doesn't trickle down

But hey, who feeds you your zingers? Are they paying you to present such a bad image, or are you just incompetent?

December 3, 2012 at 3:19 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Unlike you, bulbous, I'm not getting paid.

December 3, 2012 at 3:46 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Rolando says: “you are saying large corporations do not pass their increased costs onto the customers? How do they stay in business?

I’m saying that it’s totally inappropriate for a group of corporate CEOs whose corporations have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that virtually eliminate the companies' tax bills to barnstorm the media proclaiming that the only way to cut the deficit is to severely cut back social safety net programs, Rolando.

Rolando asks: “So...of that $1Billion EACH WEEK [$52Billion a year], how much should the CEOs who design, implement, and supervise that kind of product be worth? One-tenth of one percent? Give us a number.”

I believe you're changing the subject, Rolando. As to your CEO question, I'd say it depends upon the CEO. Like any employee, some are more capable and responsible than others. I certainly would have questions about any CEO who might be responsible for ignoring safety issues involving an aircraft. . . Wouldn’t you?

“A former quality control manager for a Texas Boeing factory is suing the multi-billion-dollar aircraft company because she says her position was terminated after blowing the whistle on safety issues.

Cynthia Whittenburg claims that she was fired in December 2011 because she refused to void and modify documentation that would have allowed the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III aircraft to be given the go-ahead for use, reports Courthouse News Service.

Beginning in February of that year, Whittenburg says she was repeatedly pressured to make changes to forms which would have cleared the aircraft to take to the sky, despite having identified a series of safety issues.

According to the complaint filed in court, "Any delay in the release of the aircraft would cost defendant Boeing thousands of dollars in lost revenue.” . . .

"Plaintiff was advised by members of her staff that certain C-17 aircraft had failed to meet certain acceptance standards," the complaint reads. "Plaintiff told her superiors regarding the failing acceptance standards of the aircraft which rendered it not airworthy. Corporate principals for defendant, Boeing, were aware, approved and ratified the instructions given to plaintiff, Whittenburg, to void and alter acceptance results and standards which rendered the aircraft not airworthy.”

David Lee of Courthouse News Service reports that even though Whittenburg’s contract with Boeing listed her employment as at-will, the airline giant would not be protected in this case because they allegedly ordered her to commit an illegal act before what’s being considered by the plaintiff as retaliation.

http://rt.com/usa/news/boeing-aircraft-safety-plaintiff-183/

December 3, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.

Jack_Dennis, so you compromise yourself for free? Mark Twain had something to say about that.

December 3, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel..

During the past few days, CEOs belonging to what the campaign calls its CEO Fiscal Leadership Council -- most visibly, Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein and Honeywell's David Cote -- have barnstormed the media, making the case that the only way to cut the deficit is to severely scale back social safety-net programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security -- which would disproportionately impact the poor and the elderly.

I agree, they are wasting their time trying to tell Obama and a bunch of politicians anything.

Are you suggesting that premiums and taxes are sufficient to cover medicare and medicaid claims? Are you insisting social security will not reach a similar situation within a decade or so when only 3.5 people are working and paying into social security? Do you not beleive the day of reckoning is coming or just refuse to accept it? Would you be willing to accept in return what you paid in during your working years if you were provided a 5% annual return and once you had drawn it all out you would draw no more from the fund? If that is not acceptable who do you appoint to pay for your continued participation?

Economist and politician acknowledge that claim dollars are 47 cents greater than medicare/medicaid revenue. So, the borrowed money is a contribution to the deficit and debt. The cost of the programs labeled "entitlement" is not sustainable regardless of what you do to taxes on the high earners.

Insurance is normally experience rated plus 4%. There is not enough will to fix medicare since voters demand more not less. Medicaid is welfare from every angle you look at it and those able and most likely to need it should pay taxes to fund it.

I own some Bowing stock I will call them and insist they not build planes or provide other materials to the government that the government has not requested or in some cases required. I will request they not accept any assistance and just charge what is necessary to make a profit and protect my investment. Would you like to see the government discontinue doing business with Bowing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and others that develop and provide what the government demands in addition to their commercial business?

December 3, 2012 at 7:22 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

bulbs: not compromised, moron. moved past crayons, too.

December 3, 2012 at 9:04 p.m.

Jack_Dennis, no, I didn't mean compromise in the sense of actually giving consideration to others, we know you're incapable of that, but in the sense that you've made a mockery of yourself.

harp3339, given what some of those companies have tried, I might. For example, when Oracle tried to defraud the government, I supported them being made to pay for it, or the recent act against BP.

There's a few examples of the same for Boeing, Lockheed, and others. Capricorn One was a work of fiction, but the concept was no fantasy.

BTW, here's a chilling figure for you.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news/economy/record-corporate-profits/

Dang, those poor suffering corporations.

December 3, 2012 at 10:11 p.m.
carlB said...

Clay, you got it right again. After the Republicans put out their "hitching circle" of lies and misleading information and were losers in the last election, they apparently did not learn or know they are in trouble when the "voters" stopped being bought/hitched to the "strategy ring" of negative bashing and lies against President Obama. Obama WON. Although the "ring" is still there without any hitches but the Republicans have not changed their negative strategies.

December 3, 2012 at 10:51 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel psoted....

David Lee of Courthouse News Service reports that even though Whittenburg’s contract with Boeing listed her employment as at-will, the airline giant would not be protected in this case because they allegedly ordered her to commit an illegal act before what’s being considered by the plaintiff as retaliation.

Allegedly is the key word in this statement. Please follow this to it's conclusion and post the results including the real reason for the termination once in court and Boeing is free to disclose it. I hope the lawyer seeking a settlement at less than it will cost Boeing to defend is not successful and Boeing does go to court. I also hope when successful they pursue a frivilous suit charge against him and collect.

Employees of Boeing have done some things they should not have and benefitted more from the government than appropriate but they are over all a pretty top notch operation.

mountainlaurel...I agree, I just don't understand why those low life CEO's don't refuse to accept government susidies and why in the world they utilize all the loop holes government provides to avoid paying more taxes. The poor government is being so taken advantage of without even being aware of it. I wonder if someone that has the responsibility thinks someone else in government is making sure the government is not complicit.

December 3, 2012 at 11:55 p.m.

Yep, those poor CEO's, forced by the government to lobby them, to get sweet no-bid contracts, to get to write the regulations they want, to make more money off the rest of us...they are just so oppressed.

Why they don't even make an effort to bamboozle the public that they're in the right either.

You can hope that lawsuit is frivolous all you want, but what would you do if it's legitimate?

Probably make more excuses for them.

December 4, 2012 at 12:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

happywithnewbulbs said...

Yep, those poor CEO's, forced by the government to lobby them, to get sweet no-bid contracts, to get to write the regulations they want, to make more money off the rest of us...they are just so oppressed.

Are our representatives like prostitutes, just can't say no. There are more citizens with special interest that lobby congress than there are businesses. Is there a requirement that a member of congress is obligated to meet with and make deals with lobbyist?They have an affair and we get raped. There should be zero deductions, zero subsidies and a no exceptions rate of 15-17% tax on profits. 60,000 pages of tax codes initiated by congress is a lot more than needed, probably at least 59,990 more than essential.

happy said..Why they don't even make an effort to bamboozle the public that they're in the right either.

You mean like the 10 million donated by the pharmacutical industry to help publicize the PPAHCA? Or, the largest contributors unions? I think it should be illegal for congress, regulators and other government employees to meet or have any dealings with lobbyist. The penalty should be a permanent ban from any government job if violated.

happy said...You can hope that lawsuit is frivolous all you want, but what would you do if it's legitimate?

I didn't say I hoped it was. I did say if it is found not to be legitimate and frivilous that I hope Boeing takes the available legal action. If legitmate penalize them to the maximum and reward her the maximum. Are you familiar at all with this case? Keep up with it and decide for yourself. Anyone can sue anybody for about anything and there is a lawyer that will take the case and seek a settlement without going to court. I hope no settlement occurs, too many do that to avoid the legal cost of defending themselves.

happy said...Probably make more excuses for them. I don't see a single excuse in my statement. I just hate to see prejudicial statements or articles by the same people that are quick to accuse others of telling lies when they disagree with them.

December 4, 2012 at 2:46 a.m.
Maximus said...

I've been impressed with the really high brow economic discussion as our President is using his typical Chicago union gangster thug tactics while trying to find "common ground" with congress. Speaking of Welfare Pimp Barrack, I saw where he, Michelle, and the girls are taking a 20 day, $4 million borrowed dollars from China, Christmas Vacation to Hawaii. Let's see, The Great Communicator, President Ronald Reagan and both Father and Son President Bush's visited their OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY for their Christmas Vacations not only to save money but to allow their secret service teams and hundreds of other government employees involved in presidential travel to take time off and celebrate the holiday's with their families and loved ones. Obama is such a JayZ Pimp hypocrite! I wonder if thug JayZ and Beyonce will be on Air Force One headed to Hawaii also? Finally, does Obama own any private property? Probably not since he is trying to seize all of ours and the only house he ever bought with the help of convicted felon Tony Rezco is in one of the murder capitols of the world, yes you guessed it, Thug Life Chicago.

December 4, 2012 at 4:40 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “They are wasting their time trying to tell Obama and a bunch of politicians anything.

I don’t think these CEOs would agree with you, Harp3339. In fact, I suspect most of these CEOs have grown quite accustomed to telling U.S. politicians what to do. Indeed, I read that in 2011 Boeing spent about $4.4 million lobbying the government in just one quarter, which was down a little from the nearly 5 million they spent during the April-June period in 2010.

Harp3339 asks: “Are you suggesting that premiums and taxes are sufficient to cover medicare and medicaid claims? Are you insisting social security will not reach a similar situation within a decade or so when only 3.5 people are working and paying into social security? Do you not believe the day of reckoning is coming or just refuse to accept it?”

To date, the only points that I’ve been insistent upon is the fact that safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare were not responsible for the deficit and the economic mess that developed during the Bush/Cheney administration. . . and, of course, that I think it’s inappropriate for corporate CEOs whose companies have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that virtually eliminate the companies' tax bills, to promote cuts in our social safety net programs so they can avoid paying a higher tax rate on their personal incomes and corporate profits.

As to your Medicare and Medicaid questions, I think it’s obvious that our major challenge will continue to be cost control, which, of course, is almost impossible to do in a country where the profits of the health care industry continue to be placed before the needs of its citizens. As you know, Harp3339, the U.S. continues to be the only industrialized nation in the world that advocates profits over people. In regard to your Social Security references, are you proclaiming that wages will not be growing over the next decade? If so, please explain. Clearly, at some point, there will be a need to phase in a tax adjustment as we’ve done in the past to reflect the changing demographics - which should keep the program fully solvent through the rest of the century - but I don’t think it needs immediate action.

Harp3339 says: “I own some Bowing stock I will call them and insist they not build planes or provide other materials to the government that the government has not requested or in some cases required etc”

As long as you’re calling Boeing, Harp3339, why don’t you also mention that it’s inappropriate and incredibly self-serving for CEOs of corporations that have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that virtually eliminate the companies' tax bills, to attack our social safety net programs just so CEOs can avoid paying a higher tax rate on their personal incomes and corporate profits.

December 4, 2012 at 6:09 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

reality check, Max:

Obama has taken less vacation time than Bushes or Reagan

All presidents have security details no matter where they travel, even on their own property (for life, actually)

Obama does not own multiple properties because he is only recently wealthy: Reagan was a movie star, the Bushes made their wealth in oil.

When the Obamas are on vacation, they pay for their own expenses. The security is of course on the government.

Don't let facts get in the way of your obvious hate, though.

December 4, 2012 at 6:14 a.m.
acerigger said...

max,the article you referenced,was from 2009.

December 4, 2012 at 6:44 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Good summary of the spending cuts proposed by Republicans in today’s NYT. They're still determined to allow the tax cuts for the rich to continue:

“Since last month’s election, Republican leaders in Congress have been demanding that President Obama come up with a detailed plan to cut the deficit and solve the upcoming fiscal deadlines without feeling any need to prepare a plan of their own.

On Monday, under pressure from the White House, Republicans finally released their opening position in the negotiations — a remarkably shallow one that demonstrated a lack of seriousness in negotiations, or farsightedness in policy.

In a letter signed by Speaker John Boehner and six other House leaders, Republicans didn’t even bother to assemble their own package of spending cuts and revenue increases; they did a simple copy and paste of a few proposals made extemporaneously at a hearing last year by Erskine Bowles, the Democratic co-chairman of a deficit reduction committee.

The proposal. . . purports to raise $800 billion in revenue over a decade by ending deductions and loopholes, while allowing the Bush-era tax cuts for the rich to continue. It would cut $1.2 trillion in spending, half of which would come from Medicare, Medicaid, and other health programs, including an increase in the Medicare eligibility age to 67. Another $600 billion would be cut from other unspecified spending.

Which programs would be cut? The letter doesn’t say, and Republicans don’t seem to care. . . If Mr. Boehner had used a calculator, for example, he would have discovered it is impossible to produce $800 billion in revenue from eliminating deductions without severely curtailing the deduction for charitable donations, which is vital to the nonprofit sector. . .

Raising the Medicare eligibility age hurts working-class Americans unable to work to 67, and it is likely to increase health care costs. But when you are simply tossing out random ideas, as Republicans seem to be doing, those kinds of long-term implications don’t matter. . .”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/04/opinion/speaker-john-boehner-makes-an-offer.html

December 4, 2012 at 7:08 a.m.
conservative said...

Jesus is the reason for the season -

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

December 4, 2012 at 7:21 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Those who criticize the cost of Obama’s Christmas vacation don’t want you to know that George W. Bush spent at least $20 million taxpayer dollars just on flights to his ranch in Crawford.

The right wing has been outraged at the four million dollar plus price tag for Obama’s family Christmas vacation, and they constantly hold George W. Bush up as an example of how thrifty a president should be when going on vacation.

The problem is that W. wasn’t thrifty. He was the most expensive vacation president in US history. Not only did Bush spend more days on vacation than any other president, but he used Air Force One more often while on vacation than any other president.

During Bush’s two terms, the cost of operating Air Force One ranged from $56,800 to $68,000 an hour. Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX. Using the low end cost of $56,800, Media Matters calculated that each trip to Crawford cost taxpayers $259,687 each time, and $20 million total for Bush’s ranch flights.

December 4, 2012 at 7:24 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, I don't believe Obama pays for the fuel to travel to and from Hawaii and for michelle to take a seperate plane to leave earlier than her husband. The only thing they pay for is housing if even that. Yes the other presidents went to their homes and didn't pay for the fuel. I don't remember the clintons taking elaborate vacations.

December 4, 2012 at 7:34 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

While "conservative" trots out the well-worn Biblical fantasy of Jesus' birth, here's another viewpoint about this "Holy Holly Time of Rudolph the Christian Reindeer" for freethinkers.

Christopher Hitchens on The True Spirit of Christmas.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110880355067656.html

December 4, 2012 at 7:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

ML SAID...As long as you’re calling Boeing, Harp3339, why don’t you also mention that it’s inappropriate and incredibly self-serving for CEOs of corporations that have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that virtually eliminate the companies' tax bills, to attack our social safety net programs just so CEOs can avoid paying a higher tax rate on their personal incomes and corporate profits.

We totally disagree on their objectives. Your beleif that corporate executives are only interested in their personal well being and wealth is unfortunate. You seem to forget that all those disgusting things you refer to can only occur if your elected elite encourage and allow it. Not one CEO, not even those that are not well meaning, can force a government employee to show them any favor. Where did all the money Boeing spent lobbying go? Where does all the union money spent lobbying which exceeds that of all businesses combined go?

The average life expectancy when social security first started was 62, it is now over 80 so age 67 eligibility is not unreasonable. Just think how much it will increase now that we have the AHCA, hello the average longevity may become close to 100.

are you proclaiming that wages will not be growing over the next decade? If so, please explain.

Check the demographics. The number working per recipient which will be approximately 3 instead of over 10 at the inception of social security so wage increases will not be sufficient. In fact the average income is down by about 4% over the last few years and with America becoming a service society there is no projection of an increase sufficient to enable three people to sustain the ponzi scheme called social security and support you in the style to which you have grown accustomed. You sound like one of those baby boomers that ate the heart out of the water melon and can't accept the reality of the current situation.

A lot of people point to Clinton's and a republican congress balanced budget so why not let the current "temporary" rates expire and return to the rates in effect under Clinton? The "cliff" term created by politicians is a myth, it would not result in an economy any worse than it will be if it is avoided.

December 4, 2012 at 7:48 a.m.
joneses said...

I just read where Pam Ladd wants to raise taxes on businesses. Is that all the dummycrats know how to do, raise taxes? Does Pam not understand that raising taxes on businesses is adding cost to their product and the end result is these cost are past on the consumer which is each and every one of us? Vote for Ken Smith and get this tax loving liberal Pam Ladd off our city council.

December 4, 2012 at 7:51 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

degage, you are correct: Carter and Clinton took less vacation days than Reagan, Bushes and Obama. And, yes, flying by government aircraft is required by security, so the government picks up the tab.

December 4, 2012 at 8:08 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: How those rose-colored glasses working out for you? Your obvious bias one way exceeds the perceived bias you see from the right.

December 4, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.
Maximus said...

So funny all of those pouring in to defend Obama yet no one mentioned Rezco or the fact that amazingly Obama has literally zero accomplishments in the private sector. He was a lawyer once but spent zero, again zero hours in the court room. No obama always has been what he wants us to be a government employee/union organizer. And gosh Obama really knows how to spend the tax payers money and he is asking for more to pay back his political cronies including many evil fortune 500 ceos he is in bed with. Ever heard of GE, Costco, and Microsoft? Not to mention the UAW! We all are Barry's open checkbook $16 trillion and counting. Oh I forgot, except for the 47% that don't pay taxes and don't contribute to the social programs that they love so much. Come on 47%, if you want a utopia you have to have some skin in the game. Sorry Obama lovers your guy is nothing special just another rich dude with a big jet. Suckers.............

December 4, 2012 at 9:03 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Lu: Clinton didn't need vacations. He enjoyed handing around the White House feasting on young WOMEN.....interns....employees......But you NEVER heard fems utter a peep. Did you?

December 4, 2012 at 9:05 a.m.
potcat said...

jonesie needs to take a reading comprehension lesson.

Pam Ladd said nothing of the sort about raising taxes on businesses.

Several companies have recieved tax breaks, known as payment-in-lieu-of-taxes agreements, with the city over the last few years.

          Volkswagen
          Blue Cross/Blue Shield
          Wrigley
          Alstrom
          Chattem, ETC.

Pam Ladd said, the city provides essential services to new and expanding businesses, and its time we get some paybacks.

The Political Repugnant Chamber of Commerce helps negotiate "deals" with businesses and industries looking for tax breaks.

Ron Harr Chamber President and CEO said that these incentives MUST be provided to keep Chattanooga competitive with other cities.

OK,but does these incentives have to be forever?? Take Chattem or all of them, they are in the red and making enormous profits, its time to pay up!!!!!!!!!!!! Private Free Market Companies on the taxpayers "Welfare" dole ride should end now. The BS of we got to give them the damn Bank or they will leave is Propaganda.

December 4, 2012 at 9:13 a.m.
raygunz said...

Max,it's gonna be a tough 4 yrs. for you and the rest of the "Obama Bashers". Guess you don't mind that though,since y'all are crybabies by nature. lol

December 4, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

riveting, raygunz, riveting.

December 4, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.

Maximus, 16 trillion, eh? Good review of history there.

joneses, see unlike Republicans, Democrats know that you can't raise revenues by lowering taxes down to zero, and we know that there's no magic deduction fairy to solve the problem either. Sorry you don't like having to accept that corporations have had huge profits, and if they can't BEAR to pay for the services of government, they can always quit.

anniebelle, to the right, everything Obama has done is a completely new and outrageous attack on America. Actually, it's pretty much all Democrats. I remember when they attacked Pelosi for having a larger plane to fly to California than they used to fly to Ohio.

lkeithlu, actually since 1997, ex-Presidential security is only 10 years, barring some other consideration. And even then they can decline it.

December 4, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.

harp3339, you're arguing for the retirement age to go up. In a vacuum. The question is NOT the age of death, but the health of a person at retirement. Have you actually looked at any statistics on that? Guess what? For many people, in many jobs, they are quite in need of retirement even earlier than 62. But you just look at the end of life as if that was telling, when the results are skewed by different forms of employment.

But yes, the pharmaceutical and insurance lobbyists DID have influence upon the PPACA, I've said that several times, and that it did compromise what we should have gotten. But we needed reform, so sometimes you take what you can get. But I don't pretend that the law was anything but what Republicans wanted. They're the ones with the delusion that it was some sort of Uber-Socialist monstrosity.

And yes, politicians do need to meet with those lobbyists, or they don't get the money they need to run their campaigns...or worse yet, their opponent does. Were you not aware that I support campaign finance reform? Not the version we got in California's recent election though. That was a fraud.

But good luck getting a ban on meeting with people who are called lobbyists, that would be severely counter-productive. See despite the flaws in lobbying, citizens do have legitimate interests in speaking with their legislators. So no, yet another absolutist solution won't be better, it'll just cut off leaders from the people they represent. And you are making excuses for the CEO's and other interests. You just don't realize your consistent pattern is obvious to everybody else and pretend to be some even-handed cynic or whatever. For example, you did say you hope the lawyer is not successful, no qualification that if the lawsuit was frivolous that Boeing pursued legal action, but rather:

"I hope the lawyer seeking a settlement at less than it will cost Boeing to defend is not successful and Boeing does go to court. I also hope when successful they pursue a frivilous suit charge against him and collect."

It looks like the way you represented your words was not accurate. You hope they are not successful, that they do go to court, and you hope they win when they pursue a counter-suit. Nothing about "if" but rather specifically hoping that suit is not settled, but goes to court. You need to take responsibility for what you clearly said.

Otherwise you're just lying to us about where you really stand.

December 4, 2012 at 10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Bulbous has taken on ALPO characteristics. Not good.

December 4, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.
jesse said...

I got news forya raygunz, it's gonna be a tough 4 years for EVERYBODY! and prob. for 10 after that!!AT LEAST!

All you folks runnin around gloating about Obama winning the election are in for a surprise!

December 4, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
joneses said...

Dummycrats are filibuster hypocrites. But what else is new?

http://www.video.theblaze.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=25515727&source=THEBLAZE

December 4, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.

Jack_Dennis still complaining in a way that validates others without realizing it. Not surprising.

joneses, still upset that Democrats are standing up to Republican bullying, huh? Go ahead, keep throwing that temper tantrum.

December 4, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
raygunz said...

Jesse,not gonna gloat,jes gonna buy more stock in "DEPENDS".LOL

Jack, it don't take much to awe you does it?

December 4, 2012 at 11:47 a.m.
ibshame said...

Those complaining about President Obama taking a "vacation" to Hawaii, have forgotten(like ignorant BIRTHERS) he was BORN IN HAWAII and lived there as a teenager with his grandmother and grandfather until he graduated from high school. HE STILL HAS FAMILY AND FRIENDS THERE AND IF HE WANTS TO VISIT ONCE A YEAR SO WHAT?

Evidently right wing nut jobs are NEVER going to get over the fact President Obama beat Repubs not ONCE BUT TWICE BY A MARGIN GREATER THAN 50%. HE IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH THAT GREAT GODFATHER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY: RONALD REAGAN,THE LAST PRESIDENT TO ACCOMPLISH THE FEAT. ON JAN. 21ST PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA WILL BE SWORN IN FOR A SECOND TERM. GET OVER IT!!! OR BETTER YET GO FIND YOURSELVES A PADDED ROOM WITH A ROCKING CHAIR AND SIT OUT THE NEXT FOUR YEARS AT LEAST UNTIL HILLARY RUNS AND WINS.

Where's that timekeeper, mymy? Four more years that's 1,460 days. LOL

December 4, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

libshame: You're being led down the primrose path to disaster. Re Hawaii, everyone gets it, ok? We know he still has friends there....the Chum Gang is probably still sittin on the beach, burning cheeb. When Hillary gets a hair advisor, you'll know she's running. By then, the country will have had enough of the dems.

December 4, 2012 at 1:44 p.m.
ibshame said...

"Jack_Dennis said... libshame: You're being led down the primrose path to disaster. Re Hawaii, everyone gets it, ok? We know he still has friends there....the Chum Gang is probably still sittin on the beach, burning cheeb. When Hillary gets a hair advisor, you'll know she's running. By then, the country will have had enough of the dems."

No, the primrose path of disaster was avoided when Mittens lost the election. It truly would have been a disaster had he won but fortunately he didn't and now the country is safe. As for everyone getting Hawaii maybe you should relay that message to one of your cronies who seems to think President Obama is doing something no other President has done and that is return to his birthplace and home for a visit. Just because it's in Hawaii makes it no less different than W. wasting time playing cowboy on his so-called ranch in Texas. Funny how we no longer see pictures of him on that ranch, in fact if memory serves he lives in a gated neighborhood in Dallas now. So much for that cowboy image. LOL

As for President Obama and the Chum Gang, at least it was in his youth. He admitted it unlike some local politicians around here who not only smoked weed but also wrote prescriptions for their lovers and yet they sit sanctimonously now in the halls of Congress and only admitted to their indiscretions when exposed by the local media.

As for Hillary in 2016. Unless the Repubs do better than they have in the last two elections, she's a walk-in to the White House if she wants it. I can just hear the first words of President Bill Clinton now - I'm baaack. I suspect some Repubs like Gingrich and Karl Rove will probably have a Stroke should that happen. Couldn't happen to a better bunch. LOL

December 4, 2012 at 3:17 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

It seems that many Egyptians not too happy with Obama's "pragmatist" pal, Morsi. Oh well, entire region going to hell under the Organizer's State Dept.

December 4, 2012 at 4:17 p.m.
fairmon said...

happy said...You hope they are not successful, that they do go to court, and you hope they win when they pursue a counter-suit. Nothing about "if" but rather specifically hoping that suit is not settled, but goes to court. You need to take responsibility for what you clearly said.

Let me be clear. I hope Boeing does not settle to save legal expense and requires the lawyer to go to court. Once in court if Boeing wins I hope they in turn file and collect from the lawyer their defense cost in a frivolous suit against him. If Boeing is guilty I hope Boeing gets the full brunt of a penalty and the complainant gets the maximum reward.

December 4, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

happy posted...

And you are making excuses for the CEO's and other interests. You just don't realize your consistent pattern is obvious to everybody else

Give me one example of an "excuse" I made for a CEO. I did say no CEO or anyone else can gain favor without congress approval. I did not realize you were speaking for everybody else also, I thought your hair brained opinions were only yours.

December 4, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"Pam Ladd said nothing of the sort about raising taxes on businesses. Several companies have received tax breaks, known as payment-in-lieu-of-taxes agreements, with the city over the last few years....Pam Ladd said, the city provides essential services to new and expanding businesses, and its time we get some paybacks. --potcat"

There was a time when most would have considered Pam Ladd's inquiry reasonable. Sales tax revenues have been flat in Hamilton County and The City of Chattanooga for sometime, leaving those that do pay property taxes in Chattanooga to cover the shortfall. The locally owned small businesses are footing the bill for public works benefitting Volkswagen. Most of us can see the problem with that. However, a small but very vocal group of lunatic fringers have been conditioned in a way that they have Pavlovian conniption fits at any talk of the government generating revenue.

I suspect that if a couple of the contributors to this forum have their way, Pam Ladd will be thrown into Lake Chickamauga. If she floats, she's a witch! If she doesn't resurface, call out the HCSD search and rescue team. Just don't ask us to pay the bill, 'cause that there is socialism.

December 4, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.
fairmon said...

happy opined....

despite the flaws in lobbying, citizens do have legitimate interests in speaking with their legislators. So no, yet another absolutist solution won't be better, it'll just cut off leaders from the people they represent.

Banning paid and registered lobbyist will not cut off leaders from the people they represent, it may even result in more exposer to those that elected them instead of lobbyist. A citizens or a group of citizens can and should speak with their legislators. They are not paid lobbyist like those employed by unions and corporations often seeking favor to the detriment of those the legislature are supposed to represent. It is not an excuse to defend a CEO for doing what the legislatures by their actions encourage them to do. They do pursue every means possible to gain government favor but they can only succeed if government employees are complicit in their efforts.

Should you speak to my representatilve please do not suggest you speak for me or represent anyones views other than you own.

December 4, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "It seems that many Egyptians not too happy with Obama's "pragmatist" pal, Morsi. Oh well, entire region going to hell under the Organizer's State Dept."

It seems to me that you're too stupid to realize that Morsi was elected by the people of Egypt, without any assistance from anyone connected with this nation, therefore any assertion that our State Department is to blame for any uneasiness occurring in the Middle East due to what is transpiring there, is rather innocuous.

Your opinion, while noted for the record, is of no consequence, and it never will be.

December 4, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "Re Hawaii, everyone gets it, ok? We know he still has friends there....the Chum Gang is probably still sittin on the beach, burning cheeb."

Maybe. But who cares? The fact that he has admitted to imbibing Mary Jane leaves no one, anywhere to go with that particular charge. Barack Obama is made of Teflon, even more so than Bill Clinton.

When are you people going to learn that when it comes to President Obama, all your posturing and whining about the man elicits nothing but yawns from the majority of the people who inhabit this nation?

"When Hillary gets a hair advisor, you'll know she's running. By then, the country will have had enough of the dems."

You just keep on believing that. The fact of the matter is that the Democrats know who they are and who they represent. There is no dissension in their ranks.

God knows that the Republican Party is in total turmoil at the moment, with all kinds of inner struggling for domination underway. It's going to be a total popcorn event, watching the Republicans tear themselves apart, before they rebuild.

December 4, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO RAGING tonite. Funny. Meanwhile N. Africa headed to Islamofacism while Obama golfs.

December 4, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "So funny all of those pouring in to defend Obama yet no one mentioned Rezco or the fact that amazingly Obama has literally zero accomplishments in the private sector."

Well, let's see about that. If nothing else, the man has amassed a $10 million fortune as a writer. Most people would consider that an accomplishment in the private sector.

"He was a lawyer once but spent zero, again zero hours in the court room."

You are incorrect.

As a junior lawyer at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard, he represented clients in civil and voting rights matters and wrongful firings. He once argued a case before a federal appellate court, and was responsible for writing a suit to expand voter registration.

About 70% of his time was spent on voting rights litigation, civil rights and employment. Around 30% of his cases surrounded matters related to real estate transactions, filing incorporation papers and defending clients against minor lawsuits.

In one case, Obama defended a nonprofit corporation that owned a low-income housing project against a lawsuit in which a man claimed that he slipped and fell because of poor maintenance. Obama was successful in getting the suit dismissed.

In another case, Obama appeared on behalf of another non-profit corporation that provided health care for the poor. A woman sued Obama's client to obtain a $336 payment for baby-sitting services. The case was settled in the plaintiff's favor.

In 1994, Obama appeared in Cook County court on behalf of Woodlawn Preservation & Investment Corp., defending it against a suit by the city, which alleged that the company failed to provide heat for low-income tenants on the South Side during the winter. The outcome of that case was settled out of court.

It would be more truthful to cite that he did not have an extensive history as an attorney, but he most certainly did see the inside of a courtroom.

"No obama always has been what he wants us to be a government employee/union organizer."

The man has had amazingly little contact with unions, much less any involvement with them.

"And gosh Obama really knows how to spend the tax payers money and he is asking for more to pay back his political cronies including many evil fortune 500 ceos he is in bed with."

A popular rumor, for sure, but baseless.

"Ever heard of GE, Costco, and Microsoft? Not to mention the UAW!"

Yep...heard of them for sure, but laying them at the feet of the President is a bit of a stretch and it always has been.

(To be cont.)

December 4, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
alprova said...

(Cont.)

"We all are Barry's open checkbook $16 trillion and counting."

Sir, or Madam, whichever the case may be, no President can spend a dime of the taxpayers money. 535 people in the halls of Congress hold the purse strings.

He can ask for it, but unless they approve it, it's not his checkbook, and I do remind you that $10.8 trillion was spent before he graced the Oval Office for the first time.

"Oh I forgot, except for the 47% that don't pay taxes and don't contribute to the social programs that they love so much."

That is just as patently false as when Romney referred to it that fateful day this past spring.

"Come on 47%, if you want a utopia you have to have some skin in the game. Sorry Obama lovers your guy is nothing special just another rich dude with a big jet."

Oh...no...no...no. Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America, and will be for the next four years. That, by default, does indeed make the man special.

December 4, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
Maximus said...

This is boring. To use a well worn phrase....at the end of the day....those who are self reliant and take responsibilty for their own success, whatever that success may be, will be just fine no matter who the POTUS is. It would be nice to play 100 rounds of golf next year. Our "Celebrity In Chief" seems to squeeze in plenty of golf between campaign appearences. Let's see, 100 rounds X 4 hours per round = 400 hours of fun on your dime. Rick Ross say dats dope! For those of you waiting for Barry to make everything fair so that no one will ever, ever get their feelings hurt again I gotta break it to you Barry and Michelle are going to get their nut $$$$ over the next four years and you will be just a distant memory. I wonder how much Barry will charge per speech? Funny how these "Welfare Pimps" like Barry,Bill Clinton, Al Gore just love, love the free market, private sector when they leave office and are ready to sell themselves to the highest bidder for speeches all over the world. I think Algore cleared a cool $600 million from his global warming power point tour. Nice! I do think that Tipper took Algore to the cleaners in the divorce though. Al should have stayed away from that psycho maseuse. Cheaper to keep her Big Al....what a dip@#$%! Cheers!

December 4, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
dude_abides said...

GOP vs. GOTP... LOL They're savaging their speaker! We can only hope this carnage lasts until the midterms. The party of division has turned the knife on itself. I hope they do their close work well. I guess it's just gonna come down to whether suppressing the poor is enough, or complete hatred of the poor is necessary. A do-nothing congress might be preferable to the alternative. Pass the popcorn, al!

December 4, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Obama Consults with MSNBC Hosts Sharpton, Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell on Tax Rates.

You can't make this stuff up, folks.

December 4, 2012 at 9:21 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dude, ok you win. The accomplishments of Smooth Jazz Barrack continue to impress. I know you are a BIG gay marriage guy. Well...you will be glad to know that the first gay marriage ceremony was held at West Point last week. So sweet and just absolutely FABULOUS! Big plans at the Naval Academy, one of the midshipmen wants to marry his german shepherd in April. Thanks Barry! Ike, Patton, R.E. Lee, and Stonewall, all West Point grads are spinning in their historic graves.

December 4, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Better to marry a dog than your own sister, Incestimus.

December 4, 2012 at 10:11 p.m.
carlB said...

Maximus said... This is boring. To use a well worn phrase....at the end of the day....those who are self reliant and take responsibilty for their own success, whatever that success may be, will be just fine no matter who the POTUS is.

REPLY: Maximus, In the real world, what you are saying does not have any substance or importance in getting the sensible people who work for a living or are retired for putting any envy/jealously toward President Obama. Of cource you have a few people that will "HITCH" on your "stirring" of the benefits that come with the position of getting elected as President. What was the difference in the conditions when Bush W. was selected as President and when President Obama was elected? It will not be hard for you and the other enemies of the President to come up with the answer. President Obama has certainly been able to multitask and handle the tasks he was presented with that occirred before he was elected in November 2008.
When I think of what happened in 2001 after the Republicans took over, it makes me see the need for reviewing their entire arrogant attitude they had against balancing the US budget, paying off our National Debt. and curtailing our loss of the middle class caused by the global economy trade deficit more than doubling during their eight years. Their objective then was to weaken the US Government's role by increasing the National Debt. In fact they more than doubled the THE National DEBT during their eight years and left this Republic in the 2007 deep recession. Then they tried to blame President Obama and his administration for not correcting/fixing all of the crisis conditions that were "left on his plate" while the Republicans publicly told the voters that their plans were for causing President Obama to fail and convince the voters by "lying" that he did not belong in the office and that the voters made a mistake in voting for him. What did or have the Republicans done for the good of this Republic during Obama's four years?

December 4, 2012 at 10:33 p.m.
carlB said...

When I think of what happened in 2001 after the Republicans took over, it makes me see the need for reviewing their entire arrogant attitude they had against balancing the US budget, paying off our National Debt. and curtailing our loss of the middle class caused by the global economy trade deficit more than doubling during their eight years. Their objective then was to weaken the US Government's role by increasing the National Debt without regard to the long-term results. In fact they more than doubled the THE National DEBT during their eight years and left this Republic in the 2007 deep recession. Then they tried to blame President Obama and his administration for not correcting/fixing all of the crisis conditions that were "left on his plate" while the Republicans publicly told the voters that their plans were for causing President Obama to fail and convince the voters by "lying" that he did not belong in the office and that the voters made a mistake in voting for him. What did or have the Republicans done for the good of this Republic during Obama's four years?

December 4, 2012 at 10:36 p.m.

Sure you can Jack_Dennis, sure you can. Nothing stops you from making up whatever lie you want.

harp3339, let me be clear, you said what you said. It was clear what you meant, that you hoped Boeing wins. Heck, you even seem to think not winning on the complainants part is tantamount to the lawsuit being frivolous.

Guess what? You can fail to win a case without it being frivolous.

But just that you hope that that happens shows how your continued abject adoration of the executive classes is also not in doubt. You want it to be frivolous, because you've bought into that narrative as well.

Despite Corporate propaganda, they aren't the victims of a wide variety of frivolous lawsuits that are just ruining their operations. And no, Stella Liebeck wasn't in it for the profit either.

And if you haven't noticed people calling you out on your adherence to the corporate line, then I'm quite surprised. Are you really that out of touch? I've not been the only one to raise that issue with you. Though admittedly "everybody else" might be a bit too broad, I'm sure some of the posters here would deny anything of the sort. Then again, I don't give them the credit to say the sun is up. They'd deny it till they were blue in the face if Obama said so.

So let me express my regrets for being overly expansive and rephrase my words, to "that's been clear to many others here as well" though you can claim to be indignant if you want.

In any case, the CEOs will never be the poor victims of the representatives who just have to be so open to corruption and bribery, tempting the noble CEOs from the path of virtue.

Yes, I know you want me to believe that you're somehow complaining about both. But that doesn't ring true, because your past words serve quite the opposite effect, and your criticisms are in no way as even-handed as you seem to think. You may think your hare-brained attempts to purport yourself as neutral fool me, but I don't think they fool anybody but yourself.

If you're going to try that, you're going to have to do better. Or learn to actually mean it.

And ok, so you're going to let private citizens speak with legislators, but not let "professionals" do it...what if I want to have somebody represent my interests to them?

Good luck solving that problem.

December 4, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.

CarlB, but remember, they had a mandate in 2001, and could do no wrong.

Republicans never can, they are always in the right. It's only Democrats who always, always blame them, they never actually make a mistake or have a bad idea.

Always Democrats at fault. Didn't you get the memo?

December 4, 2012 at 10:40 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dude so very clever. Be careful or i'll get Obama's buddy Richard Trumka, AFLCIO Prez. to make sure U R sleepin wit da fishes. By the way....check out utube....Hillary has done such a wonderful job with Egypt. Do we have a president? I thought Obama won. He seems to be soooo allergic to leadership. Too busy appointing the editor of VOGUE to an ambassadorship. She is soooo fab.

December 4, 2012 at 10:47 p.m.
Maximus said...

Really Carl B. you are talking about the national debt when we have 50 million U.S. citizens on food stamps and a president more concerned with his celebrity status and paying off his political cronies than handling HIS trillions in debt (no other president has spent more borrowed money than Barry Cetera.....period...end of story). But....as I said....I lose very little sleep regarding who the POTUS is because I live in a low tax red state and my businesses ( I own three) are making more money selling cheap food to obese Democrats than I have made in a long, long, time. Bush, Obama, LBJ, who cares as far as our day to day activities. In the U.S. no matter what you, Dude, or Jessee says it is about the INDIVIDUAL getting up early early every day and in the words of financial guru Dave Ramsey....killing something and dragging it home. No matter how much so called faaaairnesss Barry is able to bring and how much our dear leader can give e....veryone a fair shot, there will always be winners and losers in life. The winners will always figure out a way to get around punks like Obama. My theory has been for a long time that a lot of Democrats are people that never got any dates in high school and they have been working to get revenge ever since. Look at Pelosi and Barney Frank and the Nazi Dem Chair Wasserman Schultz. She has a face made for radio and that mullet, WOW! If you are looking for Barry to take care of you you are going to lose. Mediocrity for all should be Barry's next campaign theme as I am sure he will make a run for a third term. After all, all he can do is be a celebrity union organizer thug politician. Again, I do admire Barry in that he set a goal and achieved it. That's more than I can say for a lot of the people that support him. CarlB OBAMA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. BARRY AND MICHELLE WILL BE RICH AND PART OF THE 1% LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK AS THEY GET IN THE MAYBACH WITH JAYZ (see violent lyrics contributing to gun violence toward women), BEYONCE, AND RICK ROSS. I still can't get those four flag draped caskets from Libya out of my head. What happened with that CarlB?. Wonder if our brother or good friend happened to be inside one of those caskets? Utube video sparks 9/11 attack on Bengazi embassy. Hmmm so long ago. Wonder what type of Christmas or Quanza (even though she is married to a white guy) Susan Rice will have?. I bet she is a good liar when it comes to hiding gifts. Meanwhile, Hillary is looking very puffy and constipated. Didn't she have something to do with the utube coverup? Oh well, those flag drapped caskets will drop out of our memory soon as Poverty Pimp Barry takes us over the cliff. PEACE OUT!

December 4, 2012 at 11:26 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “We totally disagree on their objectives. Your beleif that corporate executives are only interested in their personal well being and wealth is unfortunate.”

Corporations vary and employees vary, Harp3339. As to this group of CEOs who are peddling the cutbacks to our social safety network, it’s rather obvious what their real goal is – it’s all about tax avoidance for their corporations, which I find unsettling. In this particular case, it’s especially unsettling because these CEOS represent companies who have received trillions in federal war contracts, subsidies and bailouts, as well as specialized tax breaks and loopholes that have virtually eliminated their companies' tax bills. For a group like this to be peddling cutbacks to things like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid is disgusting.

The bottom line is these big multi-national corporations benefit from public services just as much as the rest of us. They benefit from our transportation infrastructure – airports, roads, railways, and harbors to move their products, and receive materials. They also benefit from public safety services just as much as the rest of, including police, fire, and emergency medical services. A state’s judicial system protects their contractual and intellectual property. The point is they should be paying their fair share of taxes just like everyone else.

Harp3339 claims the sky is falling: “There is no projection of an increase sufficient to enable three people to sustain the ponzi scheme called social security and support you in the style to which you have grown accustomed. You sound like one of those baby boomers that ate the heart out of the water melon and can't accept the reality of the current situation.

Please, Harp3339. As usual, you’re getting carried way with your rhetoric. For starters, according to the Social Security Administration actuary's latest projections, if the payroll tax was increased by 2.67 percentage points now Social Security would be on firm financial footing for the next 75 years. The projections of the Congressional Budget Office projections show that the Social Security Program can pay all scheduled benefits through the year 2035 with no changes at all. After this date, if there are no changes, Social Security will still be able to pay approximately 80 percent of scheduled benefits through the rest of the century.

December 4, 2012 at 11:31 p.m.
Maximus said...

Damn,dude, just like Hillary and Susan Rice you are so good with utube. I bet you are great with video games also. Don't forget, tomorrow you can get your winter heat subsidy check. Better take your little play station thingie to play with while you wait in line. If you break it Mommy will not only let you use her healthcare but she will buy you another. The Dude Abides forever and ever as long as everyone including the Dude gets a fair shot.

December 4, 2012 at 11:36 p.m.
fairmon said...

happy says...

In any case, the CEOs will never be the poor victims of the representatives who just have to be so open to corruption and bribery, tempting the noble CEOs from the path of virtue.

The CEOs are not victims but the tax payers are victims of their elected elite that pick winners and losers, show favor and attmept to manipulate things that will gain the financial support and get votes.

happy again opined....Yes, I know you want me to believe that you're somehow complaining about both. But that doesn't ring true, because your past words serve quite the opposite effect, and your criticisms are in no way as even-handed as you seem to think. You may think your hare-brained attempts to purport yourself as neutral fool me, but I don't think they fool anybody but yourself.

I make no attempt to be nuetral. I did not say I hope Boeing wins the case. I did say I hope they do not settle and would be disapointed if in this case if they did. I don't know why you think I try to say my criticisms are even handed since I think the democrats are about as f'd as can be possible while not suggesting republicans have it right their position is more pro growth than the blood sucking democrats. I would never attempt to fool a fool, one that thinks the country could not function without a European approach to governing with an abundance of over paid, under worked incompetent "public servants" thinking they are robin hoods.

I prefer the libertarian position on most issues and voted accordingly. If Obama was the only choice I would, for the first time since eligible to vote, pass up the opportunity to vote if there was no write in option.

Congratulations on the 3.8% tax increase effective 1/1/13 that Obamacare beings in. There are other goodies to come. I am pretty sure the democrats rediculous proposal is due to their hoping the republicans will hold their ground resulting in all the temporary tax rates expiring then the democrats will promptly start selectively avoiding the spending reductions and pushing for increased revenue. Name one Obama cabinet member that is good in the role they have and what they have contributed.

December 5, 2012 at 1:57 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

tderng said... DJHBRAINERD said... And, Try that instead of parading a few uncle toms in front of the camara.

First...Help,help, I'm drowning in bull$hit. And...what a racist prick would call an African-American who didn't agree with their world view.

Nice job of selective editing here is the crux of my argument and the point of the cartoon: Now instead of finding a way to be inclusive the republicans are finding the whitest colored people they can dance in front of the camara, with the same world view, and hoping that people want notice it's just a dog and pony show with no real change in thinking. Still not looking in the mirror and still not willing to see the faults in an election stratagy that demeans others. Or you could reread this :Your party( meaning republican) demonizes anyone who does not toe the trickle down line and can't seem to figue out the idea is to get votes , not piss off everyone who might hold a sligtly different world view than the religious right. So go ask someone who looks and thinks just like you to validate your opinion. So again without the faux outrage at my word choice why dismiss it as BS? You have a party of rural white folks who seem to want to take back something they never had, motivated by greed and contempt for others trying to convince the rest of us to live the "right" way all the while wondering why the same people who they have called names and use as an excuss for thier own lack of leadership do not want to vote for them. So instead of doing some soul searching and making a sincere effort to attract new voting blocks you have doubled down with insults and excusses. All the while you ask other WASP's for advice. In the context of this cartoon it seems Minority outreach is simply getting the few people of color within your ranks in front of the camara to toe the trickle down line. Now tell me about lazy people who take and don't work and blah blah blah... and please use insults and make excusses, it helps to validate my point.

December 5, 2012 at 3:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel responds with....

according to the Social Security Administration actuary's latest projections, if the payroll tax was increased by 2.67 percentage points now Social Security would be on firm financial footing for the next 75 years.

That is a significant increase, I think around 30% and if the number paying, employment, increases as projected, which is optimistic, should increase the time social security remains solvent. This does include the age eligibility adjustments already being phased in. It does not include the current "temporary" reduction in social security taxes.

mlcontinues with.....The projections of the Congressional Budget Office projections show that the Social Security Program can pay all scheduled benefits through the year 2035 with no changes at all.

Consistent with my statement of a decade or so for social security.

ml stated.... After this date, if there are no changes, Social Security will still be able to pay approximately 80 percent of scheduled benefits through the rest of the century.

A 20% reduction in benefits combined with the projected increase in employment and personal income does make this possible but requires a lot of faith and trust for it to be probable.

Like most projections several assumptions are in play with those used being pretty optimistic.

Do you have the projections for medicare and medicaid? These are not and should not be considered the same as or part of social security. Politicians like to lump them all together when they talk about these three welfare programs. They are three totally different and distinct programs.

I have repeatedly and say again premiums and taxes need to be increased on those benefiting and to benefit in the future from these programs. Why not increase them enough to pay for the welfare provided by medicare and medicaid. What most people don't realize is the wealthy already do not participate in these programs due to the major increase in premiums for those with an income over $85,000 per year. They prefer private more flexible and better coverage.

December 5, 2012 at 6:25 a.m.
joneses said...

Typical liberal headline saying the fault lies with the lottery and not with the stupidity of the people that choose to play the lottery. The lottery is a tax on people who do not have a basic understanding of math.

"Personal finance: Lottery mania hurts low-income players"

A more accurate article should read:

"Personal Finance: Low-income players of the lottery hurt themselves"

It is about personal responsibility not about the government trying to be responsible for all the citizens.

The reason most people are poor is because they make decisions that make them poor like playing the lottery.

December 5, 2012 at 7:29 a.m.
dude_abides said...

maximouth... Glad to hear you're a Twinkie magnate, I bet that sister of yours is high maintenance. That damn Obama is causing the housing market to pick up. Auto sales are stronger, too. Say, do you have your camo van full of ammo and canned food, rapture-ready?

December 5, 2012 at 7:32 a.m.
potcat said...

Maxi mus be waiting with bated horse sh.. breath for his heat subsidy check to kick in becauce how would he had known the date and how to do it, i didn't.

December 5, 2012 at 7:50 a.m.
potcat said...

jonsie is a complete Idiot!!!

December 5, 2012 at 7:53 a.m.
alprova said...

I had truly hoped that all that chicken wing flapping would have died down after the election was over, but I'll be damned if it doesn't appear to be getting worse.

It truly is going to be a very miserable existence for some people for the next four years, and if Hillary steps up to run in 2016, I'd love to see who the Republicans put up against her, who would have half a chance.

With most of the Republicans refusing to give an inch on raising taxes for their wealthy constituents, whom we all know the Republicans truly and solely represent, and with recent polls proving that if we all go over that fiscal cliff together, that it will be the Republicans who will be blamed for it, it doesn't look like the Republicans are off to a good start in repairing their image for future elections.

Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio have all but admitted that they are going to make a run for it in 2016 and are already making what appears to be campaign appearances.

Grover Norquist is being welcomed in front of many cameras these days and has become quite the clown who has threatened every single Republican who has dared to offer that taxes on the wealthy should be raised.

According to a report by Business Insider, Karl Rove is now considered persona non-Grata over at Fox News, due to his meltdown on election night.

Oh...and former GOP House Leader Dick Armey has resigned as CEO of the Tea Party, citing "differences that are a matter of principle," taking an $8 million payoff with him as he closed the door behind him.

Adding insult to injury, the Senate failed yesterday to ratify the UN Disabilities Treaty, signed by both GWB and Barack Obama, which has been signed by 154 countries and that has been ratified by 126 of those countries. Ratification, which takes a two-thirds majority to accomplish, was blocked by 38 Republican votes against it.

Not one law would have changed in this country as a result of ratification, and the treaty was born based on U.S. laws already in effect, but that makes no difference to some in the Republican Party.

Yessiree, there are enough bat-crap crazy Republicans still in Congress, who are going to disrupt progress until the end of this year on anything and everything that might actually do some good for the people of this nation.

December 5, 2012 at 8:31 a.m.
fairmon said...

What is the advantage of increasing tax rates on people that can move thier money to tax exempt investments instead of eliminating the deductions or limiting the amount deductible to make certain to generate more revenue from the more wealthy? Is the democart strategy to make sure there is no agreement so they can blame the republicans for an across the board tax increase. If so, I do hope they are successful.

December 5, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
patriot1 said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_61-rrGMCQ&feature=player_detailpage

This is the makeover needed by the Republicans?.....Detroit, an example of unbridled liberalism and now needing a bailout. Republicans had best get on that bandwagon if they expect to win in the future....right Alpo?....you're a "registered" Republican aren't you?

December 5, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "What is the advantage of increasing tax rates on people that can move thier money to tax exempt investments instead of eliminating the deductions or limiting the amount deductible to make certain to generate more revenue from the more wealthy?"

Harp, you should know that 1.) there are not enough tax-free investment opportunities available to shield all investors from taxes, especially the AMT., and 2.) the risks associated with tax-free investments are aplenty.

Munies depend on tax receipts in order for entities to be able to retain their credit worthiness and to guard against default, and as we all know, there is a big lack of tax receipts going on at the moment.

"Is the democart strategy to make sure there is no agreement so they can blame the republicans for an across the board tax increase. If so, I do hope they are successful."

I'm really trying to understand you these days. You are normally level headed, but lately, you seem to be a bit off-kilter.

The Democratic strategy is very simple. They are going to stand their ground this time, rather than to kick the can down the road one more time.

People love to believe that it is the Democrats who are responsible for the debt being where it is today, for out of control spending, for the lack of jobs, and for an exploding rise in those who are dependent on Gov't.

The fact is that the Republicans share equal billing for each and every one of those things and it's going to take both sides working together to begin to solve these issues.

The wealthy are doing fine at the moment. The middle class has been raked over the coals for much of the past decade. Unless money finds its way back into the pockets of those most likely to spend it to stimulate this nation's economy, this nation is going to continue to suffer.

The number one focus that needs to be addressed by Congress is restoring decent paying jobs targeted at the middle class, by whatever means necessary to achieve that goal. Jobs will generate income sorely needed by the Gov't. When this nation's employment ratings dive, spending will decrease immensely all by its lonesome.

The last thing this nation needs is more taxes on the middle class.

December 5, 2012 at 9:21 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova..I admit ignorance about the UN disability treaty. What advantages does it give disabled Americans that is not provided by the ADA? Could those advantages be realized by strengthening the ADA instead of again imposing on other countries our beliefs and laws?

December 5, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
alprova said...

Patriot1 wrote: "This is the makeover needed by the Republicans?.....Detroit, an example of unbridled liberalism and now needing a bailout."

What is ailing Detroit is not liberalism. What is ailing Detroit is an extremely high unemployment rate, currently sitting at 10.5%, combined with high crime and poverty by an overwhelming majority of that city's inhabitants.

What else ails Detroit? Abandonment by all but those who cannot afford to leave. It has become a haven for the poor.

This is not a recent trend either. It has been ongoing for decades.

"Republicans had best get on that bandwagon if they expect to win in the future....right Alpo?....you're a "registered" Republican aren't you?"

I am a declared Republican when I vote in primary elections and I vote for many local politicians who run on the Republican ticket, but I currently have no use whatsoever for any Republican who runs for national office.

For sure, if national Republicans expect to win elections in the future, they had better jump on any bandwagon that includes representing the interests of those with as little as nothing in their pockets to pay for their next meal.

Does Detroit need to be bailed out? I don't know. What I do know, and am keenly aware of, is why that city is in trouble.

To blame liberalism or Democratic leadership, on the surface without delving a little deeper into what has led to the city being in trouble, is quite laughable.

Poverty and crime have plagued that city for decades.

December 5, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "alprova..I admit ignorance about the UN disability treaty. What advantages does it give disabled Americans that is not provided by the ADA?"

None, in this nation. The treaty was modeled after the U.S. laws in place by the ADA, which is why it should have been a breeze for ratification by the Senate.

What prevented it? The insane negative connotation associated with the mere mention of the United Nations, that is continuously conjured up in the minds of those on the right aisle.

"Could those advantages be realized by strengthening the ADA instead of again imposing on other countries our beliefs and laws?"

Harp, the treaty was born in 1981 and was introduced to the U.N. by Italy and Sweden. GWB was the first President to sign the Treaty on behalf of the United States. Barack Obama resigned it in 2009.

The Treaty, in its current form and as it has evolved over the years, is very much based on U.S. laws formed by the ADA, which is why the Senate Republicans should have had no opposition to its ratification.

December 5, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
carlB said...

Maximus said... Really Carl B. you are talking about the national debt when we have 50 million U.S. citizens on food stamps and a president more concerned with his celebrity status and paying off his political cronies than handling HIS trillions in debt (no other president has spent more borrowed money than Barry Cetera..... =========== REPLY:

Maximus, When you take each of the issues that you bring up about the people getting killed and the misuse of the military, if there was a conparison of the same events that have occurred you probably would not want to "go there." For all of the other throwing out the other "nit picking" to see if it will stick to the "hitching ring", without the substance, the voters have already had to their choices to decide on who they wanted to be the President of the USA.

December 5, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.
Maximus said...

Pothead, er er I mean Cat such a village idiot. Try watching FOX NEWS every once in a while but you probably don't have cable. The pitiful heat subsidy check was well publicized on FOX as a stupid government program for the lazy. Potcat I hope you enjoy the heating check, its more FREE money for you.

December 5, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: You might want to delve into the politics of Detroit for the past 50 yrs or so. "Poverty and crime have plagued that city for decades" Duh!....No city govt to blame, eh ALPO? You're such a single-minded twit.

December 5, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.
conservative said...

Jesus is the reason for the season -

Veiled in flesh the God-head see;

Hail th’ incarnate Deity,

Pleased as man with men to dwell,

Jesus, our Emmanuel.

December 5, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Detroit councilwoman to Obama: We voted for you, now bail us out.

Sure, makes sense.

December 5, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.

harp, you are right, CEOs do work to get their people in office, and that is a problem. But do note, the CEOs and other moneyed interests choose to do so. They also manipulate our system in other ways, as in California where they recently tried to close the door to Union political influence while leaving their own route wide open.

But no, your original words on Boeing's lawsuit are still:

"I hope the lawyer seeking a settlement at less than it will cost Boeing to defend is not successful and Boeing does go to court. I also hope when successful they pursue a frivilous suit charge against him and collect."

You hope the lawyer is not successful. That means you hope that Boeing wins. You state a preference that when successful that they pursue and win a charge against him for filing a frivolous suit.

No qualification there, it is a clear preference for a desired outcome. Yet you would have me believe you are saying no such thing.

Yeah, right. You are trying to fool me into thinking your words don't mean what they obviously express, a sentiment reflecting your adherence to the corporate dogma.

Because you think if only the corporations were saved from the blighted and dastardly government, they'd run so well, and that the free-market, much adored by faux-libertarians who pretend to be the only noble people who actually adhere to the Constitution would serve us all. Meanwhile you seem to think that the Republican position is more pro-growth, so you want us to believe you are begrudgingly supporting them. But the only growth their policies is in the hands of the wealthy, and the poverty of everybody else. That you ignore how their ideas don't work, how they've failed so often, and usually made things worse, even creating the very situation you purport to despise regarding the debt, or how in the practice of Mitt Romney and Allen West, they prefer to create a duplicitous fantasy of a great divide where they are on the right, saving us from the sheer and utter evil on the left.

No, you'd rather pretend that it is Democrats engaging in some game of brinkmanship. If only those mean and dastardly liberals would just give the Republicans what they want, it'd be so much better. Why that'd be true bipartisanship.

That reminds me of that Indiana senate candidate whose idea of compromise was Democrats coming around to his point of view.

And hey, you know what, that Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? It will have costs for many people who are getting insurance. My word, paying for one's insurance. What a terrible imposition. Why can't we just keep letting people go to the expensive ER like Mitt Romney suggested and default on their bills, then force paying for that on others? Why not just let the continually escalating problem of medical bankruptcies go on? After all, those people were so irresponsible getting cancer or some other life-threatening medical illness.

December 5, 2012 at 10:58 a.m.

Jack_Dennis, would the same not be true of anybody who voted for Mitt Romney?

Is it wrong to ask your elected leaders to serve your needs?

The pretense that Romney wasn't offering gifts to those who supported him is one of the worst lies of the post-election season.

joneses, let me guess, you go to the victims of con-artists and attack them, meanwhile you ignore the con-games and refuse to do anything to stop them.

December 5, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 says: “That is a significant increase, I think around 30% and if the number paying, employment, increases as projected, if the number paying, employment, increases as projected, which is optimistic, should increase the time social security remains solvent. This does include the age eligibility adjustments already being phased in. It does not include the current "temporary" reduction in social security taxes.”

Your insincerity about our Social Security Program is showing, Harp3339. In your earlier post, you spewed out insults and claimed: “There is no projection of an increase sufficient to enable three people to sustain the ponzi scheme called social security and support you in the style to which you have grown accustomed. You sound like one of those baby boomers that ate the heart out of the water melon and can't accept the reality of the current situation.

In response to your claim, I provide you with information, which clearly shows that your claims about the status of Social Security are not valid. As in previous years, an adjustment is needed to reflect changing demographics, but the matter is easily fixable. In this case, the Social Security Administration actuary's projections show that if the payroll tax was increased by 2.67 percentage points now, Social Security would be on firm financial footing for the next 75 years.

Your response to this info is to dish out more nonsensical rhetoric without a single iota of evidence or reference to any kind of legitimate source to support what you’re saying. At this point, I believe your reason for doing this is obvious. You’re simply someone who doesn’t like Social Security for ideological reasons, but you’re not quite honest enough to admit it and would rather have us believe that Social Security Program isn’t working because you know a large majority of Americans support the Social Security program, and understand that the adjustments need to made from time to time to reflect the current demographics.

Harp3339 said: “Do you have the projections for medicare and medicaid? These are not and should not be considered the same as or part of social security.

I agree that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are all completely different programs, but I disagree that all three are “welfare” programs, Harp3339. As to “my” projection, I don’t have one for the reason that I’ve already provided. Unlike our Social Security Program, these programs are both dependent upon a for-profit healthcare industry, which as you know is a very unstable variable. Until the U.S. takes a firm stand as other nations have done to control costs who knows. The bottom line is that even though we do not have better outcomes, we continue to pay our doctors, our drug companies, and our medical equipment suppliers way more than people do in any other country – In the U.S., our politicians put the profits of the health care industry above the health of our citizens.

December 5, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
ibshame said...

"conservative said... Jesus is the reason for the season Veiled in flesh the God-head see;"

Strange how people like you were willing to overlook the teachings of the Mormon Church and install Bishop Romney in the White House.

"What Does Mormonism Teach?"

6.God A.God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). B."The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (D&C 130:22). C.God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3). D."God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). E.God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105). F.God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428). G.God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115). - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it. H."Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

7.God, becoming a god A.After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.) B."Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (D&C 132:20).

8.God, many gods A.There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). B."And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).

9.God, mother goddess A.There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443). B.God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).

10.God, Trinity A.The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

http://carm.org/teachings-of-mormonism

December 5, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
jesse said...

Obama WON so the repubs need to give him EVERYTHING he wants,Then we can ALL sit back and see what go's down!

THEN in 4 years we know what worked or didn't work!

December 5, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
potcat said...

maxi mus be i missed that little tid bit on faux News,i don't have cable. Charter won't run the wires to my home but i have Direct TV and someone could try and put a gun to my head to make me watch The Bad Liars Club but i don't see that happening.

National Geographic channel is showing Hell on the Highway right now but the Doomsday Peepers will be back on Sat at 10 am.

Don't get me wrong i love NG but its showing us the fanatical idiots of this country, Thanks NG.

December 5, 2012 at 11:37 a.m.

joneses, in actuality, Obama has shown willingness to compromise, whereas the Republican mindset is still to demand 100% of what they want and pretend it is bipartisanship.

But hey, good show, revealing the Republican priority, not to serve the country, but to have somebody ELSE to blame.

Great idea!

harp3339, I forgot to to mention in my post, but your claims to be a "libertarian" is exactly what I meant in your attempt to portray yourself as neutral, in the non-partisan sense. Apologies for not making myself clear.

But you are partisan, you adopt the Republican line as many pretend Libertarians do, and never ever take the time to challenge it when there's a Democratic policy you can invent to bash instead.

December 5, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.
tderng said...

DJHBRAINERD...perhaps I was a bit snippy.:) I was referring to the fact that you claim to be a Libertarian. Your constant cheering for the liberal viewpoint and demeaning of conservative viewpoints makes it hard for me to believe that.Your angst towards conservatives belies your claims. As for the other,I have always hated the left calling a Black Conservative an Uncle Tom.It is a very demeaning,even racist terminology. Simply because someone who believes in personal responsibility and small government,and happens to be black,doesn't mean that he/she has turned traitor to their race. On the contrary they are proving that someone can succeed regardless of their skin color. They are showing,by example, that all that is needed is determination and drive to succeed(and sometimes a little luck).

December 5, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.

tderng, that is indeed what conservatives want to believe. That it's the left which is really racist, and that they're truly color-blind. Somebody who just gets it, and acts like a conservative, regardless of race? Why they're showing the correctness of the right-winger. It's only the foolish liberals who stubbornly resist that, shame on them.

But here's the thing, turns out some of us on the left detest how the right treats Liberals with that condescension, as if the left just has to stop believing the wrong thing and come around to the PROPER point of view, and they'll stop being liberals.

Do you think that's not demeaning too? Simply because someone doesn't believe in what conservatives do, doesn't mean they don't believe in personal responsibility or effective government. On the contrary, they are proving themselves someone who recognizes that responsibility includes being responsible to others, and that government is not the enemy.

And when you trot out somebody because of their race to use them as a show pony...sorry, but whether you call them an Uncle Tom or not, you're still using them for their race, a way to knock down and disparage others who just don't fall in line with your plans.

And thanks to the Right's insistence that it's all about personal responsibility, you can continue to blame them while blinding yourself to the whole circumstances.

December 5, 2012 at 12:32 p.m.
ibshame said...

Forbes List of World's Most Powerful People. Wait for it, wait for it, NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST, WAIT FOR IT,

http://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/list/

December 5, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
fairmon said...

ML...

You are right that ideologically I am opposed to social security. The projections you post use some optomistic assumptings about employment and income levels. The demographics reveal that in the future only three people will be in the working age category for each recipient of social security. 10,000 people a day retiring is a good indicator of what is to come. How do you not consider these programs welfare when money given to some people is borrowed or was taken from someone else? Why are they called welfare by government accountants? Why are they called entitlements, what entitles any of us to these welfare programs?

mlsaid.... In the U.S., our politicians put the profits of the health care industry above the health of our citizens.

We have chased this rabbit before and I do think it is one of the most misguided opinions you have. The motivation to develop better and more effective methods is profits. The R&D investment to find now medicines is profit motivated. Take the profit motive away and see how many pursue them. I assume you think the government should fund all the research and development work or is it time to stop all such foolishness since new metdods and treatments are a main cause of increased health care cost. One major problem is government involvement and intervention in the health care business other than regulations that assure excellence in quality of care prevents equal competition among providers and drives cost up.

December 5, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

libshame stil hung up on Mormonism. Like a broken record.

December 5, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Alpo says "What is ailing Detroit is an extremely high unemployment rate, currently sitting at 10.5%, combined with high crime and poverty by an overwhelming majority of that city's inhabitants."

Alpo, these are SYMPTOMS of a problem, not the problem itself. Typical of liberals who see high unemployment and think the answer is more unemployment benefits, see high crime and think expanding government by hiring more police, see poverty and think more food stamps, govt housing, etc. What you're describing is the result of the disease and blight called liberalism.

December 5, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

patriot1: Prepare yourself for a 2,000 word diatribe that says nothing.

December 5, 2012 at 1:37 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

tu_ posted: Pseudo-idealism is a term coined by the Australian biologist Jeremy Griffith to describe apparently charitable behavior that on scrutiny is revealed as selfish, because the giver is engaging in it only so that he or she can feel good about him- or herself. It is a characteristic commonly found among the left, and it constitutes what the author Geoffrey Wheatcroft recognized as the left's inherent dishonesty.

Pseudo-idealism becomes a more and more attractive option the more dysfunctional a society becomes. By contrast, a healthy, pioneering country, where the family unit still instills strong values, will far more readily produce sound, self-reliant adults with little or no need to escape themselves by taking up feel-good causes.

THOSE WORDS SHOULD BE CARVED ON STONE.

December 5, 2012 at 1:40 p.m.
Maximus said...

Per my posts, most can tell that I did not vote for Obama but as a true free market capitalist I will find a way to thrive as he takes the country into a managed decline. During the FDR years many great family fortunes were created and earned fueling his socialist agenda and of course winning WWII. Ross Perot, famed CEO of EDS (Electronic Data Systems) left his entry level sales representative job at IBM to found EDS and make his billions from government contracts to computerize the federal medicare system. Remember, government can't really create or build anything, they have to contract it out. Everyone thinks the government took us to the moon but the space missions were contracted out to the highest bidder most notably...private sector giants like...GE,Boing, Martin Marietta, IBM, General Dynamics, the list goes on. My point, it does not take a Vanderbilt MBA like mine to understand that a strong capitalist business owner and creator pivots when market conditions change. I mentioned earlier that my three food businesses are thriving right now selling cheap food to those living primarily on welfare. For all of you Barry Drones I would advise finding a way to buy as much Wal-Mart and Kroger stock as you possibly can. Why? It's where all the food stamps are being spent! My plan is working. Obama's redistribution is going right into my pocket. Another tip, invest in Hospice Companies. With the Obamacare death panels, more sick patients that otherwise could have survived with medical procedures, expensive cancer meds, etc. are going to be referred to hospice, especially if you are 65 and over. Hospice will give you pain meds and see that you are starved to death so that you will no longer be a burden to the state. You can cash in on this healthcare trend that is already in place and in process now. Remember, a self reliant, responsible country boy will survive and thrive no matter who the POTUS is. FELIZ NAVIDAD!

December 5, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.

harp3339, you know what's also part of the profit motive? Cheating and scamming others. Fraud isn't done because it doesn't make money, but because it can and does.

That, I think is one of your most misguided opinions, your blind adherence to the profit motive without recognition of its downside.

BTW, it's called an entitlement because you paid into it, and thus you are entitled to get what you contractually agreed to receive. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a contract or something??

Maximus, actually the government can and does create many things, the same way those corporations do. By hiring people to do it. Your argument would invalidate the corporations doing anything either, which is an interesting bit of epidemiological argument, but hardly relevant in the real world.

But basically all you're saying is without the government's funding, those companies would be what? Think about it.

BTW, a government leader also pivots when conditions change. Sometimes that's for the better, sometimes for the worse.

December 5, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.

patriot1, I'm seeing an assertion, but you have still failed to establish actual causality.

That's quite a common conservative trait, say something is true and never bother to prove it. That's the mindset of a conservative, something is true just because you believe it in your gut. What a convenient disease.

Jack_Dennis, you can do better, you can say nothing in fewer than 10 words.

And feel so good about it. It's your charity to us, isn't it?

December 5, 2012 at 2:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

And I'm usually right, crayon boy. You should read and learn.

December 5, 2012 at 3 p.m.

And yet you attack others for arrogance.

December 5, 2012 at 3:13 p.m.
Maximus said...

New Bulbs...someone should call the hospice vampires to take YOU away. A true loser revealing their hatred for the profit motive. GE, a great friend of dear leader makes private sector profits all over the world. Like my point in the post, to a capitalist, government is just another customer. For instance, I am in a partnership that provides food service to several VA hospitals. The VA is just another revenue stream for me just like the Air Force is another revenue stream for McDonald Douglas that also makes jets for the commercial airline industry. Believe me the Profit Motive drives America. Why else does Bill Clinton charge $100K for making a speech. Slick Willie has to make some good coin to keep paying those high class hookers he hangs with. Last time I checked, Jeffery Katzenberg and Spielberg charges $12 and higher to go see one of their movies. Both are big Obama supporters and both love the profit motive. Wake up Bulbs there is a big world out there and it's time for you to move out of your parents house and pursue that evil profit motive. UCANDOIT!

December 5, 2012 at 3:13 p.m.

Maximus, nope, nice try ascribing to me a motive I didn't express, but I'm not expressing adamant opposition, I'm just not blind to its costs. You're right, to a capitalist the government is just another customer.

That's why Oracle had to be sued because they decided to try to cheat the government. Or how GE was sued by the SEC for "accounting irregularities" or how McDonnell Douglas has been sued for overcharging the government.

Yay for the Profit motive, huh?

Sorry, but that's all I'm asking for, an acknowledgement that the profit motive isn't the unmitigated good it's fawning supporters seem to believe.

Of course, since they tend to turn against that same motive when it comes from say, labor unions, or even liberal supporters, maybe they could recognize it...just not in those they love.

In those, they see no wrong. For you, it's only evil in those who don't toe your line. That's why you try to tar me with guilt by association.

Too bad I recognize the ploy for a fraud.

December 5, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
ibshame said...

"Jack_Dennis said... libshame stil hung up on Mormonism. Like a broken record."

No, I'm not hung up on Mormonism. I'm hung up on the idea of psudeo "Christians" always quoting from the bible like Conservative but then having no qualms about voting to put Bishop Romney in the White House who clearly comes from a very different train of thought when it comes to religious practices and beliefs. You know like thinking if President Obama had indeed been a Muslim it would have been something REALLY, REALLY wrong with it.

December 5, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.

ibshame, that's another example of the right-wing mindset. They overlook Mitt Romney (and Desjarlais for a local example) yet manufacture fantastical attacks on Obama.

December 5, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.
alprova said...

ibshame wrote: "Forbes List of World's Most Powerful People. Wait for it, wait for it, NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST, WAIT FOR IT"

Oh...my...my. Grover Norquist and Karl Rove are sure gonna be ticked off that they didn't even breach the top 100. I wonder if Karl Rove will take to the air with some charts to prove that the list is wrong. Ditto for Norquist.

I noticed that the Koch brothers shared the 41st spot on the list. It would seem that they too, have ascended up the list. They were at #54.

December 5, 2012 at 3:31 p.m.
Easy123 said...

happywithnewbulbs said...

"ibshame, that's another example of the right-wing mindset. They overlook Mitt Romney (and Desjarlais for a local example) yet manufacture fantastical attacks on Obama."

Then they will try to convince you how "religious preference" doesn't matter when choosing a candidate. Apparently, it only matters if your skin is a darker shade of brown.

December 5, 2012 at 3:34 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"The treaty was modeled after the U.S. laws in place by the ADA, which is why it should have been a breeze for ratification by the Senate. What prevented it? The insane negative connotation associated with the mere mention of the United Nations, that is continuously conjured up in the minds of those on the right aisle. --alprova"

I saw where Rick Santorum and his homeschool defense group had their collective sweater vests all up in a knot about this. Something about how homeschool parents would have to build wheelchair ramps at their homes. Then said ramps would be used by militant homosexuals and abortion doctors to enter their home and indoctrinate little Jimmy and Janie Goldenhair. This would provide cover while the U.N. jackboots confiscated all the guns and bibles in the house.

In other news: Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam named Samar Ali to the Department of Economic and Community Development. In response, tea partiers formed the only logical conclusion...Sharia Law is coming to the Volunteer State!

Jeebus H. Christmas! It's the end of the world, throw another brick on the doomsday bunker.

December 5, 2012 at 3:34 p.m.

Easy123, that is what Mitt Romney said. With some regret.

GratefulDawg, what parent with a child in need wouldn't want such a ramp?

December 5, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... This Is The Most Delightful News: (CNSNews.com) – “The U.S Board of Immigration Appeals has agreed to reopen the immigration case of Onyango Obama, delaying the deportation of the 68-year old Kenyan who violated an order to leave the United States in 1992. Obama, who is the president’s uncle, was granted a rehearing last week and his case is being re-opened"

And your point would be what? Just in case no one told you this: President Obama has had more illegal immigrants deported than Bush did in his entire 8 years as President. In fact, the White House issued a statement this was to be handled as any other case would be handled. Hmmm keep digging though, Benghazi didn't work but don't let that stop you. Maybe BO Obama has something hidden besides a bone you can make up a scandal on. LOL

December 5, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "You are right that ideologically I am opposed to social security. The projections you post use some optomistic assumptings about employment and income levels. The demographics reveal that in the future only three people will be in the working age category for each recipient of social security. 10,000 people a day retiring is a good indicator of what is to come."

You just made a very good pre-argument for legalizing 20 million illegal immigrants and for introducing them to our system of taxation. Since Americans are no longer popping out babies in high number, open up the gates and welcome more, ready-made workers into our nation to help support the retiring baby-boomers.

How do you not consider these programs welfare when money given to some people is borrowed or was taken from someone else? Why are they called welfare by government accountants? Why are they called entitlements, what entitles any of us to these welfare programs?"**

Well I don't know about yourself, but I have personally paid in a hefty sum over the years into those programs, both on my half, and on behalf of people in my employ, and you can bet by golly that I for one, feel more than entitled to collect a return on what I paid in, if I should live so long.

December 5, 2012 at 3:43 p.m.
tderng said...

happy....All I was trying to point out is that in my own humble opinion is that calling someone an Uncle Tom is just as offensive as calling someone a Ni**er. Simply because someone disagrees with your world view is no reason to call them offensive names.I said absolutely nothing about Democrats being racist. What would you do if all you ever heard was "You're a racist because your a conservative"? Would you not bring to the forefront people in your party who were of another race or ethnicity to prove them wrong?

As far as condescension is concerned,that goes both ways pal! The left constantly call the right stupid ignorant hillbillies if they are from the south and just stupid and ignorant if they are from anywhere else. Liberals are constantly touting how much smarter they are because they have some college degree from some liberal bastion of education. So don't try and tell me that liberals are unfairly condescended to.

As far as trotting someone out for the cameras how about Sandra Fluke? Trotted out so that women would vote democratic. It goes both ways pal.She was a nobody before she demanded free stuff ie: birth control that someone else pays for. Hell I deserve free medicine for prostate problems if I have them. Or erectile dysfunction,Men should get those meds for free! By free I mean free to an individual,because nothing is free,someone must pay for it.

Oh! By the way the government is the enemy when it gets too heavy handed or intrudes too much into an individuals life. When it grows so large that it threatens to topple because it's so large and not enough people are feeding the beast! When a government tells someone what to do or how to do it,It is the enemy!Regulations are fine but regulating every tiny detail is not! Regulating an industry out of business(ie: the coal industry) is not being an ally to the industry. It seems to me that trying to force an entire nation of 350 million people to change to an energy source that isn't very effective yet by forcing the cost of the currently available energy so high that other energy sources can compete makes the govt. the enemy.

December 5, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"I mentioned earlier that my three food businesses are thriving right now selling cheap food to those living primarily on welfare. --Maximus"

Gluteus, you mentioned something else earlier as well. On December 2 at 1:42 p.m. you stated "used to own three businesses now I'm just an independent investor." Now I just don't know what to believe. Are you really going to buy your imaginary wife a car for Christmas? Are you really "kicking ass and taking names"? Did you get that Vanderbilt MBA at one of those places in Gatlinburg where they will also put your picture of the front of Sports Illustrated?

Peace out dip-shizzle.

December 5, 2012 at 3:56 p.m.
alprova said...

Patriot1 wrote: "Alpo, these are SYMPTOMS of a problem, not the problem itself."

Like I've never heard that before. Very much like health care, when you treat the symptoms, the problem disappears.

"Typical of liberals who see high unemployment and think the answer is more unemployment benefits, see high crime and think expanding government by hiring more police, see poverty and think more food stamps, govt housing, etc. What you're describing is the result of the disease and blight called liberalism."

With all due respect, all the above reduces to much more manageable numbers when people have decent jobs to look forward to. The lack of decent jobs has plagued the counties surrounding Detroit for decades. Unemployment numbers have always been higher there.

I dare offer that Detroit is dominated by minorities, who as we know, are left out in the cold time after time.

I find anyone who expects the President to be beholden to come to their rescue, by publicly declaring their support for him, to be as laughable as you do, but I do not agree with your take on the reasons why Detroit is in dire straits at the moment.

This nation has pockets all across the land, where problems are elevated, and white flight from large metropolitan areas has been ongoing for decades. Not everyone who is left is shiftless and lazy. Some certainly are, but to throw everyone into that generalization is very reckless.

The Republicans were elected two years ago to deliver on a promise to deliver jobs to this nation, and for two years, they have inundated the halls of Congress with more massive military spending measures, abortion bills, attempts to derail health care reform...anything and everything but serious legislation that would provide jobs to those who need them, in an attempt to keep unemployment where it is, in order to attempt to reclaim the White House this past November.

It backfired on them, horribly, and unless some people start screwing their heads back on straight, in two years, they are going to see another big butt whipping.

This next term for the President is not going to be like his first term. He has nothing to lose if he pisses of every single Republican in Washington, along with their cheerleaders. And all the posturing by John Boehner is not going to fool so much as one person.

December 5, 2012 at 4:05 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"GratefulDawg, what parent with a child in need wouldn't want such a ramp? --happywithnewbulbs"

You would have to ask Rick Santorum and his minions. They have some of the best crackpot theories. Besides, I don't even speak bats**t.

December 5, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "And I'm usually right, crayon boy. You should read and learn."

Another self-declared legend in their own mind is born...

December 5, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
alprova said...

HWNB wrote: "what parent with a child in need wouldn't want such a ramp?"

Rick Santorum

December 5, 2012 at 4:18 p.m.
Maximus said...

Bulb, yes, especially with a government account you have to play the game by their rules and they have a LOT of rules believe me. That's where my Christian faith and Judeo Christian values come in to play. You must pursue the profit motive with a high level of business ethics and respect for people no matter what type of business you are building. As one of my partners says when we are considering a deal, "As long as it's legal, moral, ethical, and non-fattening let's make some money!" Without the profit motive there would be no unions except of course the stupid government employee unions. The government, especially under thuggie barry, does not have to make a profit or balance it's check book. Since you mentioned unions, they had their place at one time and did a lot of good but in today's world of HR and legal departments unions are obsolete and really an unnecessary burden on business. Unions are the single most significant reason why so many manufacturers have moved their operations to China. Unions and the profit motive of course. Only about 7% of the private sector of the United States is unionized and that is too much. GM is in trouble again and should have never been bailed out with our tax money but I understand Barry was buying votes in those swing states. Again, Barry is a thug politician and knows how to close business deals with his boys. I admire that. Plouf and Axelrod gave obama a business plan and he was successful. It's not about the country...it's about Barry. I know like most ultra liberals living in their world of low expectations and intellectual cynicism my points are falling on death ears because you think all free enterprise and private sector business is evil. Most libs I know use that cynical college professor like attitude as an excuse for their personal failure. Again, there will always be winners and losers no matter how FAIR the Welfare Pimp Obamer makes things. Unless you get out and compete each day in the U.S. you will not be successful in business. Some folks due to laziness, lack of motivation or up bringing just don't have the push to excel in a free market society. These people are usually government employees or homeless. YOUR ATTITUDE DETERMINES YOUR ALTITUDE IN LIFE. OH YES, AND YOUR WORK ETHIC!

December 5, 2012 at 4:19 p.m.
alprova said...

GratefulDawg wrote to maximus: "On December 2 at 1:42 p.m. you stated "used to own three businesses now I'm just an independent investor." Now I just don't know what to believe."

Can you say...oops?

December 5, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

TEDRNG>>>>>>>>Simply because someone who believes in personal responsibility and small government,and happens to be black,doesn't mean that he/she has turned traitor to their race. On the contrary they are proving that someone can succeed regardless of their skin color.

My coments were blut or perhaps slightly less than politicaly correct. BUt I believe you are mistaken when you assert they were ment to bash the conservative viewpoint. Instead I was hoping to bash the desire to legislate morality and lifestyle choices, Instead of focusing on fisical policy..............that is what the repulicans need to see in the mirror and return to monetrary policy while allowing the poeple to live thier lives.

TEDRNG>>>>>Your constant cheering for the liberal viewpoint and demeaning of conservative viewpoints makes it hard for me to believe that.Your angst towards conservatives belies your claims...............

This is a good example of my critisism, I say the republicans should focus on the money and get out of poeples lives and you mistake that for angst toward a viewpoint? so we are getting closer ,to the main point, In order to be a republican you get a check list and must agree to any and all requirments of the party, you know the conservative viewpoint, while everyone else gets to be a Liberal. How does that attract anyone who doesn't have $250,000 a year to your message? Now make sure to blame them for something, maybe deport their grandmother,............... HAPPY Simply because someone doesn't believe in what conservatives do, doesn't mean they don't believe in personal responsibility or effective government. On the contrary, they are proving themselves someone who recognizes that responsibility includes being responsible to others, and that government is not the enemy.

......People just want a chance and the republicans should recognize that finding a way to give peolpe a chance should be the only viewpoint. Not finding a person of color, to read from the same old script. This is not ourtreach and it will not attract new votes because it is not a messege of inclusion.

December 5, 2012 at 4:51 p.m.

tderng, and in my opinion, that is an attempt to avoid criticism by feigning outrage in a manner that is also opposed by those on the right who are quick to claim somebody is playing the race card as they like to term it. Really, you said NOTHING about the left being racist? "It is a very demeaning,even racist terminology." which means what? That you are talking about it as if it was a problem. Your whole objection is based on that, and it's part of the conservative attempts to portray the left as racist.

That's what the right does. And then yes, they trot out a minority as a figure-piece, to distract us from how they're not serving the interest of minorities. Well, except they are, but only those deserving who reject what the left tells them. The rest? Just their fault, if only they'd embrace the ways of the right. That's why you don't want to hear any criticism of it being nothing but a show, a fraud, that tries to hide the right's real lack of concern for any minority interests.

And yes, the condescension goes both ways. Was that unclear? That for all your pretense of liberal condescension, the same act exists on the conservative side. But it's the right that continually tries to portray itself as the innocent victim of persecution and bullying. Including what you're doing here.

But Sandra Fluke? Trotting her out as your victim, who you use to disparage the left? I'm sorry, but did you notice how Rush Limbaugh behaved? Called her names, made vile aspersions, and all sorts of distortions. No, she was not calling for "free" birth control, but rather for birth control to be provided as part of the health insurance services the students were paying for. Yes, I know you want us to believe it was some gift from above, but the reality was rather different.

Your example only shows the failings of the right, not the left.

But pretend you only want the government to be the enemy when it's a problem. Nope, that's not been the case, the right has adopted all too much the mentality of ending government as an absolute evil, while glorifying the private sector. And you know what? The coal industry isn't being regulated out of business. You're creating a fantasy that isn't based on reality. And no, nobody is being forced, not in any precipitous manner. The green energy conversion is actually a very slow and steady process, and not at all

If anything, I'd say it's more hesitant than it ought to be, but in no way is it the extremist solution you portray it to be.

See that's the problem, your complaints just continue to fail in the legitimacy test.

But hey, what's right about an industry that pollutes the air and water, and forces that environmental damage on the on the rest of the nation? Not to mention those wars in the Middle East, and the various oil spills.

Why do you get to force that on the nation, but nobody can do anything about those problems?

December 5, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

"As far as condescension is concerned,that goes both ways pal! The left constantly call the right stupid ignorant hillbillies if they are from the south and just stupid and ignorant if they are from anywhere else."

Vaguely overstated and patently false. All of us here likely live in the South. Many here are what you would call "liberal". I guess you're saying "liberals" believe themselves to be ignorant hillbillies? You're making the mistake of thinking all liberals are from somewhere other than the South. Now take your foot out of your mouth.

"Liberals are constantly touting how much smarter they are because they have some college degree from some liberal bastion of education. So don't try and tell me that liberals are unfairly condescended to."

Give one example of that happening. Republicans/Conservatives always try to demonize higher education e.g. Rick Santorum. And then label every university "liberal". For the record, NAME A NON-LIBERAL BASTION OF EDUCATION.

"She was a nobody before she demanded free stuff ie: birth control that someone else pays for."

That wasn't what she was wanting. She advocated birth control coverage on insurance (at Georgetown). Your misguided oversimplification of this issue is sad and humorous. Republicans really are brainwashed.

"Hell I deserve free medicine for prostate problems if I have them. Or erectile dysfunction,Men should get those meds for free! By free I mean free to an individual,because nothing is free,someone must pay for it."

All of those things are covered on most insurance plans.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/medicare-says-it-will-pay-for-expensive-prostate-drug/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/20/5-sexual-health-services-insurance-will-cover-for-men/

In this situation, the insurance company absorbs most of the cost for the drugs. That's part of the reason people buy insurance. The individual still has to pay their insurance. You're a freaking idiot.

"Oh! By the way the government is the enemy when it gets too heavy handed or intrudes too much into an individuals life."

I bet you don't feel the same way about the Christian/Catholic Church. Why is that?

"When a government tells someone what to do or how to do it,It is the enemy!"

I bet you don't feel the same way about the Christian/Catholic Church. Why is that?

"It seems to me that trying to force an entire nation of 350 million people to change to an energy source that isn't very effective yet by forcing the cost of the currently available energy so high that other energy sources can compete makes the govt. the enemy."

Maybe if the entire nation was more conscious of the environment, they would invest in these new energy sources. Maybe the government is just smarter than you. Republicans/Conservatives love to bite the hand that feeds them.

December 5, 2012 at 5:04 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Ah, Easy vomiting the left's mantra....anyone not a leftist is racist. wearing thin, little feller. You need to read tu_'s 1:14 post....that is you, Bunky.

December 5, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Troll_Dennis,

"anyone not a leftist is racist"

Show me where I said that, Father Time.

"wearing thin, little feller"

Much like your urine stream.

"You need to read tu_'s 1:14 post...."

You need to get off Tu's nuts. You have nothing clever to say, so you ride the coattails of others.

"that is you, Bunky."

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-03-06-GOP2.jpg

This is you, sweetheart.

December 5, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
fairmon said...

happy asked....

BTW, it's called an entitlement because you paid into it, and thus you are entitled to get what you contractually agreed to receive. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a contract or something??

I am very familiar with contracts and the process by which they are developed. The federal programs labeled entitlements are not the result of any agreement between the participant and the government. A contract? The government can change, modify or discontinue the program and the participant has no recourse. Is it right, after paying the maximum taxes for 45+ years, social security is taxed if income from all sources is over 32,000 or that medicare premiums go up big time if income is over 85,000 for a year, even if it was a 401K withdrawal to pay a parents medical bills?

You are so egotistical and a self appointed expert on how a for profit business should be run although it i. evident you never owned or managed one. You consistently decide what someone else is thinking or twist their opinion to justify your socialist tainted response. I exercise my option to ignore you and will not respond to your bleeding heart ideology that shows your envy of financial success you apparently have not achieved under the guise of being the champion of the under dog. I resent your assertion that I in anyway defend or support fraud, cheating or dishonesty. I do support those that comply with the law and try to earn a return that rewards their investors. I would think the government would serve people better by assuring there is significant competition and a level playing field for American business.

December 5, 2012 at 5:11 p.m.

Maximus, yes, how dare the government have rules and standards. Why that's not what they need to do, it's not part of the purpose of government at all!

Except some of us prefer not to rely on a religion for such things.

But man, you think a corporate HR and legal department is a reason to get rid of unions? Not when they're (mis)guided by their profit motive...and a short-sighted recognition of immediate gain from screwing employees. GM isn't in trouble because of the Unions, they're in trouble because they built their company on filling an empty void, and now they're having to transition to a replacement mode. They can't shut down the street car system again.

But don't worry, the thugs in China who have found profit in the exploitation of their citizens will eventually find out that the citizens can stand up and say no. You're attacking Obama, while cheering Totalitarian China for letting corporate interests prevail? Such a skewed perspective.

Here's something you don't understand with your reference to winners and losers...we can actually have games where it isn't zero-sum, where we have winners and winners. You don't have to succeed by trampling others.

But your cynical attitude can't stand it. You'd rather just despise anybody who you think just lacks a work ethic. Some of us realize though, that just because somebody else hasn't succeeded well in life, that that's not necessarily because they didn't work hard.

And sometimes, just because you got ahead in life, doesn't mean you're somehow better. Some people get ahead by being worse.

DJHBRAINERD, I think they'll just stick with the script. It's what suits them. No change!

December 5, 2012 at 5:13 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

little easy...a prince among the terminally stupid. you poor sap.

December 5, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Trollie_Dennis,

Is that really your rebuttal?

It would make more sense if you made reference to a "patient" (instead of "prince") since "terminal" refers to an illness.

Even your metaphors are ignorant. :-)

December 5, 2012 at 5:22 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel....

I am confident your heart is in the right place but it is not allowing adequate blood flow to the logical side of your brain. Would you agree with and support moving medicare and medicaid out of the general fund and adjust premiums and taxes enough each January to pay for the anticipated expenses for the coming year (claims and adminstrative cost)?.

If not where would you suggest getting the money for the current and growing short fall in revenue? Feel free to tax the wealthy a percent of their income that is to be paid to the health fund, not the convoluted general fund. This is transparent, self sufficient and sustainable. People would know the real cost of medicare and medicaid and possibly even recognize abuse and unnecessary use need to be avolded. Hire more over paid, under worked government employees if necessary to guard against abuse and fraud and hope they don't participants in the abuse.

There has to be a better way than to keep digging a hole that will at some point cave in on us. The first rule when trying to get out of a hole is quit digging. Can you find one legitimate economist or politician not suffering from brain damage that will say the current state of medicare and medicaid is not a serious problem that must be addressed?

December 5, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.

harp3339, actually, you do have recourse, and yes, you can address it in a variety of means. And some changes are explicitly forbidden. Of course, since you've already endorsed certain changes yourself, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on when it comes to being outraged over it. But hey, if you want, yes, you can advocate and petition for change. You can argue if you want that something would be more rightly done another way.

But keep attacking me for egotism and being a self-appointed expert, when to me, it's you who wants to come across as the all-knowing sage who like Cassandra, is offering us great wisdom, if only we'd accept your oracular pronunciations about an oncoming doomsday.

Oh, and you're hypocritically claiming offense at somebody else deciding what you're thinking, when that's conduct you yourself engage in, even in this thread? I don't care to count the number of times you've disparaged me for being some sort of adoring fan of Obama that wants to impose whatever conception you have of Europe on the US in a tyrannical fashion.

Just that you've done it is enough. And I've pointed it out to you several times, but you never notice or acknowledge it.

That you later just go on to say in the same stream of thought to say "shows your envy of financial success you apparently have not achieved under the guise of being the champion of the under dog." which does what? Oh yeah, tells me how you couldn't even make it another sentence without doing the very thing you just got upset about me doing. Then again, the prior sentence does the same thing, with you making a judgment about who I am with no evidence except your own opinion. Or how about how you ended the sentence? "socialist tainted response" ? How did you manage to bracket your hypocrisy with so many examples? (Socialism, BTW, isn't a dirty word to me, but your use indicates that it is to you. What does that say about you?)

Which just goes to show me why I find your positions to be suspect, and to continue to doubt you have an awareness of the perils of the profit motive, that you don't truly realize how un-tempered greed is a problem. You just take it as a given as a noble motive.

But hey, did you know the government does support business? What do you think patents and copyrights and trademarks are built upon? What about tariffs?

I'm just not foolish enough to think that the businesses of America trump the individual citizens in the way I am concerned you would allow, given your past examples, including your endorsement of Boeing over a complainant, to the point where you hope for it being frivolous so the lawyer can be punished. Seems to me more evidence of your adherence to corporatism. I'm sure you're going to be upset of that judgment of your character, but don't try the hypocritical indignation again.

I won't buy it. Just like I don't buy you claiming to ignore me. I've heard that from you before too.

December 5, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.

harp3339, there's a lot of Republican governors and their supporters arguing for doing nothing in regards the exchanges so that instead of solving any problems, they'd prefer to have somebody ELSE to blame.

But hey, you want to cheaply prevent a lot of Medicare fraud? Try the pay-then-check system reform.

December 5, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.
tderng said...

DJHBRAINERD said...My coments were blut or perhaps slightly less than politicaly correct. BUt I believe you are mistaken when you assert they were ment to bash the conservative viewpoint. Instead I was hoping to bash the desire to legislate morality and lifestyle choices, Instead of focusing on fisical policy......

Reply: Ok, I'll retract my comment. That wasn't what I got out of your statement but if that was your intent I actually agree with you. I don't believe I or anyone else for that matter has the right to legislate how anyone lives their life so long as no others are harmed.

As far as me believing(or not) that you are a libertarian,I base my thoughts in this area from your comments from before the election.You seem to always come down on the side of liberals.I don't remember you ever espousing a view that would lead me to think you were a Libertarian.I could,however,have missed them. I don't come here every day.

.....People just want a chance and the republicans should recognize that finding a way to give peolpe a chance should be the only viewpoint. Not finding a person of color, to read from the same old script. This is not ourtreach and it will not attract new votes because it is not a messege of inclusion.

so what would you have republicans do? Hide the people who are not white men? They bring these people out to counter the lies of the left that if you are a republican you are a racist,misogynistic hater of anyone not white and male.I am sure that Republicans would love to have more diversity in their party. The difference,imho, is that republicans don't feel that they should simply tell people what they want to hear just to get a vote. They're more likely to tell it like it is and hope they can get the vote anyway.Now don't get me wrong,all politicians pander to various demographics and Republicans are no different. I do believe,however, that the left has fine tuned demagoguery to an art.

December 5, 2012 at 6:07 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy (or whatever name you're using today): I was talking illness you dolt. Wake up, son. Have some more Jolt.

December 5, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.

tderng, actually, I find Republicans do feel that they should simply tell people what they want to hear just to get a vote. Mitt Romney practiced that. Believe it or not, sometimes outraging somebody else (and knowing it), does play well to another group who you want anyway. It's a form of pandering, namely "look how impressive I am, that I'm telling truth to power, vote for me!" or however you want to call it. Maybe there's some Shakespearean term for it.

Including in this case, where the audience wants to hear a minority figure-piece saying "I rejected the liberal way and decided to follow the conservative mantra, and that's what has made me better" and that's exactly what is being delivered. Which actually proves to the left that the right is STILL lying.

Sorry, but the right has its share of demagoguery, and even your blaming the left for somehow being better goes to show how it is the right that wants to practice it as a shell game.

December 5, 2012 at 6:19 p.m.
Maximus said...

Bulbs, I assume you have fake boobs, congrats, I'm done with you. "China exploiting their citizens" errr for the first time in decades, China is building somewhat of a middle class. As for car companies, look no farther than good ole Chatt. VW is making a great non-union product as is BMW in S.C. and Mercedes in Bama. DO NOT LOOK FOR THE UNION LABEL and why do we here so much about the I.B.E.W. in Chatt? Electrical workers have to be unionized? Sounds like blue state crap to me. Tennessee is a right to work state and you do not have to hire a union electrician to change a light bulb unless of course you are a democrat!

December 5, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
tderng said...

happy said... Really, you said NOTHING about the left being racist? "It is a very demeaning,even racist terminology." which means what? It means that anyone using those terms should be ashamed of themselves REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL LEANINGS,happy.Even DJHBrainerd agreed it was less than politically correct.I was in no way trying to portray the left as anything.

Now,lets see about that Sandra Fluke thing with Rush.What he said was reprehensible. But let me tell you something,the way Sarah Palin was and continues to be treated by numerouspeople on the left is a whole lot worse than the way Fluke was treated by one person.Did you notice that many on the right were as upset as anyone on the left about Rush's attack? NOT ONE PERSON ON THE LEFT HAS EVER CONDEMNED THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID ABOUT PALIN. She has been called some of the most vile names imaginable by such liberal stalwarts as Bill Maher,Joy Behar,and whatever that terrible so called comediens name is,the one who didn't stop at calling Sarah Palin names.She even went after her minorchildren and made fun of her!Not one word of condemnation from anyone on the left that I ever heard. The response was "well,they are entertainers they can say these things". What the heck do you think Rush is? He is an entertainer too!I just get tired of the double standard that the left espouses.Any critical assessment of Obama means you are a racist.But it is ok for the Black Panthers to call for killing whitey.Not a peep from the left about that.I get tired of the race card being tossed out every time I turn around.It has lost its sting from overuse.imho.

December 5, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
Easy123 said...

jack_m_off,

"Easy (or whatever name you're using today):"

I only have one name. But your conspiracy theories are cute.

"I was talking illness you dolt."

And the metaphor didn't make logical sense, d u m b a s s.

"Wake up, son. Have some more Jolt."

I'm fully awake. Have some more Cialis.

December 5, 2012 at 6:51 p.m.
jesse said...

tdring scoring some major points!

Maximus can't come up w/anything better than to accuse Bulbs of having "fake boobs"??That's about the LAMEST rejoinder i've ever seen on here!

December 5, 2012 at 6:56 p.m.
tderng said...

Easy123 ...check your reading comprehension skills. I said The left constantly call the right stupid ignorant hillbillies if they are from the south and just stupid and ignorant if they are from anywhere else."liberals touting their higher education.Give one example of that happening.austrianinalabamaI bet you don't feel the same way about the Christian/Catholic Church. Why is that?wrong,I do feel that way about any religion.Maybe if the entire nation was more conscious of the environment, they would invest in these new energy sources. Maybe the government is just smarter than you. Republicans/Conservatives love to bite the hand that feeds them. Perhaps the conservatives realize that the technology just isn't quite there yet and trying to manipulate the costs of current energy prices to make it compatible is merely dumping more cost onto those least able to afford it.Hell I would love to see a cheap renewable source of energy. But until it is discovered we are stuck with what we have.Democrats/Liberals just love to bite the hand that feeds them.:)

December 5, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.

Maximus, yes, China is sowing the seeds that will change things in their country. Strange that you mention three German companies though...have noticed how their relationships with their unions work? It's almost as if they aren't antagonistic or hostile.

My word.

tderng, sure you weren't, and you aren't now. Oh wait you are. You don't have to deny what you're doing, that you are just discredits you.

See you're using that right-wing victim complex again, using Sarah Palin as an example of a person on the right persecuted by the left. Conversely, I was tempted to point her out as an example of a person on the right who I find to be quite inclined to telling people what they want to hear. That's her shtick, claiming to be saying things to outrage them liberals in order to pander to the right. And yes, she also engages in some name-calling too. Yet never owns up to it. Just claims to be a victim of it.

But no, I don't consider Rush Limbaugh to be simply an entertainer or comedian. I find him to be the much beloved Republican standard-bearer. On the other hand, I have never heard of anybody on the left who thinks a bit about Bill Maher or Joy Behar. Or whoever this other person is. They don't register to me or anybody I know. But you have just right here expressed sentiments pulled right out of Limbaugh's mouth. That's the difference. To you, Limbaugh is somebody whose words you parrot. To me? I don't even know what any of these people you want to associate me with are doing or saying.

It's rather tiresome, how you keep wanting to associate me with people whose actions I haven't even a clue about while asking me to ignore how you are acting a loyal follow of Limbaugh. You can assert that you aren't, but when I keep seeing you say things right out of his playbook, I just don't believe you. It's something over-played really.

Much like something else. Namely, throwing out the "race card" card every time your racism is pointed out. You want to know why many critics of Obama are called racist? Because their criticisms of him are based on racism and bigotry. Or did you not notice the whole birther movement and the way so many Republicans went on about it? That was racism, and it will remain racism. Or the continued references to him not being American-enough, or to even to him being Muslim.

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it's there.

And no, it's not coming from nobodies, or even just Limbaugh, but from Palin, from Gingrich, from Bachmann and even from Mitt Romney.

But no, we're not supposed to pay attention to that, because you'd rather distract us with what this Bill Maher or Joy Behar said.

No, sorry, but whatever terrible and horrible things they said, doesn't excuse your conduct either.

Feel free to criticize Maher, but don't use that criticism as a way to distract from criticism of your own.

December 5, 2012 at 7:23 p.m.

tderng, the idea that we're stuck is a pernicious self-deception of many on the right, that risks putting us in a position of scarcity by doing nothing under the pretense that paying now is just too expensive.

In reality, the problem is not the technology, but the infrastructure. The trick is indeed shifting costs, but I would much prefer an orderly transition over an emergent one.

Even some Republicans could recognize that. The energy act was passed under George W. Bush you know.

December 5, 2012 at 7:27 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

"Easy123 ...check your reading comprehension skills. I said The left constantly call the right stupid ignorant hillbillies if they are from the south and just stupid and ignorant if they are from anywhere else."

Check yours. There are liberals FROM THE SOUTH. I already said that, do I need to say it slower? But you are building a fine strawman. Are you just offended by the word hillbilly or something? Again, show me an instance of this happening here.

"austrianinalabamaI"

Is this English?

"wrong,I do feel that way about any religion."

Obviously not. If you truly felt that way, you would support Sandra Fluke's efforts.

"Perhaps the conservatives realize that the technology just isn't quite there yet and trying to manipulate the costs of current energy prices to make it compatible is merely dumping more cost onto those least able to afford it.Hell I would love to see a cheap renewable source of energy. But until it is discovered we are stuck with what we have."

The technology is there. I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise. Manipulating the cost of current energy prices by making alternate energy more affordable, right? And that energy has been discovered. Remove your head from your rectum. Then you'll understand!

"Democrats/Liberals just love to bite the hand that feeds them.:)"

No seriously, Republicans/Conservatives love to bite the hand that feeds them. Your comments serve as proof.

December 5, 2012 at 7:40 p.m.
Maximus said...

Jesse, "rejoinder". So gay. Are you a union member? The teachers union maybe? Only union teachers use rejoinder. Real men don't use rejoinder. Lil Wayne say rejoinder this biatch.....JayZ say dat shorties bulbs needz tu bez rejoinder wit my mouth. Walker Texas Ranger gonna rejoin his fist with Jesse's face. Obama gonna tax the rejoinders. It's Bush and the rejoinders fault. Its all fun and games till the rejoinders start. Joe Biden had his hair plugs rejoined in the wrong place. Finally, who would ever want to rejoinder Sandra Fluke. She don't needs no birt controls. Fluke be a butter face...everything OK but her face. Sarah Palin be fine though!

December 5, 2012 at 7:48 p.m.
tderng said...

well there you go happy.You can believe anything you want. I don't listen to Limbaugh and haven't in many years. The opinions I express here are just that.MY OPINIONS.Any criticisms I have about Obama has absolutely nothing to do with his race,birthplace,religion. Only the policies he espouses.I disagree with the policies that Joe Biden likes,so what does that make me?Am I anti-white and just don't know it? It's rather tiresome, how you keep wanting to associate me with someone whose actions I haven't even a clue about.I also disagree with some of the policies the Republicans espouse. For instance I have no problem with increasing the taxes on the very wealthy,as long as there are some decreases in spending. Both must be addressed if America wants to do anything about our deficit. Unfortunately it seems that the left only wants to tax the rich without tackling the spending. They are already trying that same old lie of "well,lets get the taxes done and we will come up with the spending cuts later". Republicans have been down that yellow brick road before.

December 5, 2012 at 8:07 p.m.
Maximus said...

HappyBulbs one final thing. You must work for the government or collect welfare because anyone that has spent any time working for or with corporate America knows that the HR Departments and Legal Departments of corporations are filled with liberal, Obama supporters. Their job is to prevent their companies from losing money via lawsuits so HR folks are mega regulators that usually walk in lock step with you liberals. Just sayin.

December 5, 2012 at 8:31 p.m.

tderng, yes, and I don't believe you, because your words about Sandra Fluke came right out of Limbaugh's distortion machine, and more to the point, even I did accept that, you couldn't even address the inaccuracies in your claim. So what, you expect me to forget that your whole premise was flawed anyway? Or did you not notice where I and Easy123 pointed out that it was for health insurance they would be paying for, and Easy123 even pointed out how all of the things you demanded were covered.

But hey, you're also associating me with people I don't support, and who you have shown no connection between us, whereas I have pointed out where I find your words and conduct to be quite in congruence with those Republicans and conservatives you claim to be independent from.

But let's see, no, Obama and the left HAVE agreed to spending cuts. Which you know what? Romney tried to attack Obama on. If your opinions on Obama and Biden are based on such similarly false grievances, then ok, your problem isn't racism, just a deficit of accuracy.

You know who is really trying to lead us into their fantasy through tired arguments and staunch refusal to compromise? Republicans who insist that if we only cut taxes now, then then economy will prosper so much that the revenue increases will take care of the deficit problem. We've been sold that bill of goods many a time.

And no, they won't let go of their precious tax cuts for the wealthy. Yet like you, they have tried to blame it on Democrats for being stubborn.

December 5, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

What expense would you cut first?

December 5, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.

Maximus, that's an interesting assertion. My experiences are do not find that to be the case. Oh I'm sure there are some that are, but in my experiences there are far more who follow the Republican agenda.

But I doubt you have any backing for your claim.

Keep trying to characterize me though, it's always so informative.

December 5, 2012 at 8:36 p.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

Great point tderng..... now if republicans could present that in an inclusive way many people would buy into it. again we come to my thesis that the republicans need to abandon any socially based conversation and stick to the money. People trust them more ( for good or bad) with the money. Now try to find a way to get some jobs to the lazy takers that are being demenaned by the right and tax revenues will take care of itsself and a few more votes will be there when the results materialize. Build some roads and clean up some blight and the minorities would be able to see the effects of trickle down economics. Of course it will take government spending to create those roads .

December 5, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.
fairmon said...

The republicans strategy should be approve everything the administration proposes while passing legislation to reduce taxes on those with increased rates. The senate will reject it and that makes the economy and results belong to the democrats. Hope it works for the country's sake and give them credit where due but credit them if it is not successful.

December 5, 2012 at 8:59 p.m.

Ah yes, the Republican find-somebody-else to blame method.

Good show.

But no, Republicans would never credit anything Obama or Democrats did with being any good. Even when it's their own idea, and Obama is implementing it, they find reasons to hysterically reject it.

December 5, 2012 at 9:11 p.m.
acerigger said...

Maximus, you didn't,by any chance,used to be a Union Ironworker in pennsylvania,(with a degree in metallurgy) who ended up on grave-yard shift on a foriegn car assembly plant,did you?

You sound a lot like another smoke-blower who used to troll around here. Jes curious???????

December 5, 2012 at 11:19 p.m.
Easy123 said...

acerigger,

No, Maximus isn't TOES. I'm pretty sure Maximus works for the Chattanooga Police Department.

December 5, 2012 at 11:50 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “The projections you post use some optimistic assumptions about employment and income levels. The demographics reveal that in the future only three people will be in the working age category for each recipient of social security. 10,000 people a day retiring is a good indicator of what is to come.”

I’ve read numerous reports issued by both the Social Security trustees and the Congressional Budget Office, and I’m confident that both are savvy to our changing demographics, including those that you’ve identified. Harp3339.

Harp3339 said: “How do you not consider these programs welfare when money given to some people is borrowed or was taken from someone else? Why are they called welfare by government accountants? Why are they called entitlements, what entitles any of us to these welfare programs?

I’ve never heard any government auditor or accountant referred to either Social Security or Medicare as welfare programs, Harp3339. I have heard some politicians referred to the programs as entitlements, but assumed this is because both are legislated benefits funded by trust funds with designated revenue sources. Social Security is a social insurance program and it is funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA). Tax deposits are formally entrusted to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund, the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund, the Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, or the Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund. The same is true with Medicare. It has several sources of financing. Part A largely is funded by revenue from a percentage of the payroll tax levied on employers and established by the Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) and the Self-Employment Contributions Act of 1954.

Harp3339 says: “We have chased this rabbit before and I do think it is one of the most misguided opinions you have. The motivation to develop better and more effective methods is profits. The R&D investment to find now medicines is profit motivated. Take the profit motive away and see how many pursue them.

In your only mind only, Harp3339. While I’m sure most people are interested in making a profit it doesn't follow that it's the main motivational factor, especially in science and medicine.

December 7, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
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