published Saturday, June 2nd, 2012

Earth to China

Set aside for a moment the debate on whether man's use of fossil fuels is catastrophically heating up the Earth, as environmental activists claim. We're not going to resolve that issue anytime soon, and it's more entertaining to make fun of the parody into which recent international climate change talks in Germany descended -- particularly on the question of China.

The communist nation's economy is second in size only to that of the United States. In addition, China releases more of the greenhouse gases that activists blame for climate change than any other nation -- America included.

So, let's see: A repressive nation that has had at least enough sense of late to benefit from some free-market reform also manages to be the world's biggest polluter -- as measured by the carbon emissions that the talks in Germany were supposed to be working toward reducing. China would thus seem to be a natural candidate for being asked to curtail those emissions.

Au contraire! The world can't expect China to do that in any significant way, its autocrats say, because that would stifle its economy. Plus, their nation is still classified as "developing" -- read "poor" -- for purposes of the U.N. talks.

Anyway, they say, countries such as the United States that industrialized earlier are responsible for longer-term greenhouse gas emissions, so let them shoulder the burden. (Never mind the higher standard of living that U.S. industrialization and technological advancements have showered on China and much of the rest of the world.)

No, if the world is determined to go along with all this climate change alarmism, let's let every nation take part -- rich or "poor." That means you, China.

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nucanuck said...

The downside of China being the dominant manufacturer for the world is generating the concomitant pollution from that manufacturing. To China's credit, they have taken the lead in clean renewable energy, but it will take decades to ramp up sufficient capacity to replace the dirty energy that they now use.

Because we purchase so many Chinese products, we in the US are indirectly responsible for a share of the Chinese pollution. The US consumes vastly more petroleum per person than the Chinese and any balanced study apportioning blame for pollution would award the US the gold medal for per capita pollution.

We have a winner!

June 2, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
conservative said...

The man-made global warming scam has always been about money, power and control, more money, power and control for Socialist government just as it was when it was the global cooling scam 30 years ago.

Socialists always need more money. To get into power Socialists have let about half of our country off the hook on paying taxes and the other half is in rebellion to carrying any more of the burden of Socialist government. So they came up with idea of taxing carbon emissions for more revenue to fund Socialist growth.

This of course will drive up your electric bill so they have to sell sheep (sheep are dumb) on the idea that they are warding off some catastrophe or even "saving the planet."

June 2, 2012 at 7:36 a.m.
nucanuck said...

To believe that climate change science is a dark conspiracy, one has to accept that many hundreds of highly educated scientists from around the world have colluded and conspired to mislead humanity into a false belief so that their respective governments could somehow profit from a created scientific fantasy.

Only those with a poorly developed sense of reason could ever embrace such total malarky.

June 2, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
Plato said...

The fact that fossil fuels are catastrophically heating up the Earth, is not just something "environmental activists" claim, it's something that 98% of Climatologists around the world believe to be scientific fact. So we are talking about science here not politics or religious dogma.

On the broader point, I agree that greenhouse gas omissions are a world wide problem and China should no longer get a free lunch under the guise of "developing nation". I will credit China for one thing however, they are putting massive amounts of money - over 100 Millon US dollars per year, into alternative energy R&D and in another decade will probably be able to dominate much of that growing market while Republicans here at home sit by idly and make silly comments about "tree huggers" and "alarmists" and lobby the government to do away with it's green energy program because of the Solyndra scandal, which represents 1% of the DOE green energy loan guarantee program.

June 2, 2012 at 10:06 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

You're insane.

June 2, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
Plato said...

^Besides insane, he's also stupid, else he would know Cap and Trade was initially a Republican idea to counter a Democratic plan to simply fine polluters.

June 2, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.
conservative said...

Wow! "fossil fuels are catastrophically heating up the Earth"

Wow! "98% of Climatologists around the world believe to be scientific fact."

The big lies are reserved for the big sheep.

June 2, 2012 at 2:04 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

Provide some facts that proves those statements wrong. The biggest delusions are reserved for the biggest idiots.

June 2, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
conservative said...

Let me help you out Plato. You will love this one, you too nucanuck.

At a UN forum (useless notion) on climate change President Morales of Bolivia said ""If we want to save our planet earth, we have a duty to put an end to the capitalist system,"

June 2, 2012 at 2:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...

You still haven't presented any facts or references to support your claim, Conservative.

June 2, 2012 at 2:40 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey Plato, more help from a former Canadian defense minister "“Paul Hellyer, 83, is calling for a public disclosure of alien technology obtained during alleged UFO crashes....because he believes alien species can provide humanity with a viable alternative to fossil fuels.” (The Ottawa Citizen, Feb. 28, 2007).

Sorry that I can't provide Twilight Zone music.

June 2, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.
nucanuck said...

c-man, what you choose to "learn" and believe certainly catagorizes you as a very special person.

June 2, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey Plato, you might want to look at this one and frame it, you will be the envy of your Socialist friends.

Canadian billionaire Environmentalist Maurice Strong said "“What if a small group of these world leaders were to conclude the principal risk to the earth comes from the actions of the rich countries?...In order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring this about?”

Have you thought about joining nucanuck and these kooky Canadians Strong and Hellyer?

June 2, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The overwhelming majority of pure climate scientists agrees that global warming is real and that human activity is the main contributing factor. The preponderance of the minority faction that disagrees are almost entirely bankrolled by corporations who have an intrinsic interest in their findings to find global warming not to be a human-caused phenomenon. So who you gonna believe?

It amazes me how so many conservatives not only do not question whether global warming is real but they come right out and say that it emphatically is not. Or they admit that is is real, perhaps, but not (again emphatically) being caused by human activity. They feign concern for their kids and grand kids about maybe having to pay off the nation's debt but they don't even want to consider that just in case global warming is real, we ought to do something so that future generations will still have a decent planet to live on. Even if we are wrong and we make some major changes in our energy policies and sources (changes that need to be made anyway, if we are to sustain ourselves), the worst that would come of it is that we would be truly energy independent at last and a much greener, cleaner, environmentally friendly planet. Somehow I don't see that as being such a bad outcome.

Of course, conservatives always make the claim that the changes would create catastrophic economic hardship on business and consumers alike. But they were saying the same thing in the 70s when air pollution was abysmally bad all over. The changes were made and life went on as usual, only with much cleaner air for all to breathe. Conservatives always drag their feet about change - that's who they are. All progress that has ever been made has been made in spite of their hysterical objections to the contrary. Let's only hope that we can rise above their torpor and stagnation once again and save this planet before it's too late. I fear the threshold has already been crossed, though. We have pretty much sealed our own fate by wasting too much time already with their silly and illogical arguments.

June 2, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey Plato and nucanuck, more Socialist spokesman promoting Socialism and taxes to pay for Socialism.

Global Carbon Tax Urged at UN Climate Conference December 13, 2007

"A panel of UN participants on Thursday urged the adoption of a TAX that would represent “a global burden sharing system, fair, with solidarity, and legally binding to all nations.” "

and "The U.S. and other wealthy nations need to “contribute significantly more to this global fund,” Schwank explained. He also added, “It is very essential to TAX COAL.” "

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

Now admit it deep down inside you knew my 7:36 comment was spot on.

June 2, 2012 at 5:18 p.m.
librul said...

Viva Evo!

June 2, 2012 at 5:43 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

You are a buffoon You have presented NOTHING that supports your claims. Absolutely nothing. You are a liar. You are deluded. And the more you post erroneous quotes and label everyone but yourself a socialist is leading me and everyone else to believe that you might have some sort of psychological disorder. Absolutely nothing you say is worth reading. You add nothing to these threads. Present some facts. Present something that even resembles a fact and then maybe you will be taken seriously. But until that time, your posts deserve no consideration at all.

June 2, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey Plato and nucanuck more Socialist demands :

"The environmental group Friends of the Earth, in attendance in Bali, also advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations on Wednesday." Now brace yourselves.

" “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,” said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth."

Now admit it they don't acquaint you with this knowledge where you go for your indoctrination.

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

June 2, 2012 at 5:57 p.m.
Easy123 said...

You are hopeless.

June 2, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey Plato and nucanuck, I have found that it's best that Lieberals be seen and not heard but if they do talk, make sure everyone knows what they said.

"In 2000, then French President Jacques Chirac said the UN’s Kyoto Protocol represented "the first component of an authentic global governance." Former EU Environment Minister Margot Wallstrom said, "Kyoto is about the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." "

You see it is all about Socialism, power and control, see my 7:36 comment

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

June 2, 2012 at 6:50 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a child? Live near a radioactive waste dump? Maybe your were dropped on your head as a child?

Crazy stuff.

June 2, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.
conservative said...

=========================== Hey Plato and canuck, watch and learn YouTube concerning NASA data

NASA: Global Warming Alarmists Wrong (again) Terra satellite data destroys Global Warming myth


June 2, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.
rick1 said...

conservative, you are spot on with your posts and even Dr. Patrick Moore former co-founder of Green Peace agrees.

June 2, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Rick, had not seen that one. Thanks.

June 2, 2012 at 8:56 p.m.
Easy123 said...

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-fingerprint-in-global-warming.html

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

http://grist.org/climate-energy/global-warming-is-a-hoax/

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc%5Ftar/?src=/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm

http://eo.ucar.edu/basics/cc_1.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/hottest-year-on-record-_n_1411628.html

Conservative and Rick1,

You are both patently ignorant. You both must be drinking the same Kool-Aid because you both suffer from the same mental deficiencies. For both of you to deny all of the scientific data shows how intrinsically stupid you both are. A child could accept global warming with such vast amounts of data and proof of it. For you both, as grown adults I assume, to deny this fact is, not only, absurd but borderline psychotic. I feel sorry for you both.

June 2, 2012 at 9:08 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The con-man pulls up a video made by some kook on Youtube who is obviously as biased as he is about insisting that global warming is a "scam" and he expects us to believe his cherry picked data. And rick1 proudly touts a video clip of this disaffected psycho Patrick Moore who is known to have been forced out of Green Peace and who wasted no time in shilling for corporations who paid him handsomely to spew their spiel about the "dangerous" ramifications of environmentalism. If you read up even a little bit on this nut-job you will see that he has done a 180 degree turnaround on every environmental issue he ever supported, from his stances on nuclear energy to food production to global warming. He did not just wake up one day and "see the light;" he decided to make money and get back at the very people he resented. He has enriched himself mightily by taking money from several anti-enviroment corporations and he is presently a paid lobbyist for the Nuclear Industry Institute.

For every Youtube clip pathetically trying to debunk human caused global warming and for every idiot like Patrick Moore claiming that all environmentalists and global warming believers are naive alarmists there are at least a dozen-to-one solid examples of data and people, as Easy has shown above, who attest to the solid science of the reality of human induced global warming. You blind deaf and dumb nay-sayers keep clinging to your moronic beliefs if you must, but you will look more and more stupid as time goes by.

June 2, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
rick1 said...

easy, do you believe drilling for oil, which is a fossil fuel contributes to global warming?

June 2, 2012 at 9:55 p.m.
gjuster said...

Fact 1) 98% of climate scientists believe in man made global warming - Wrong - though perhaps 98% of the scientists that receive the BILLIONS of government money based upon the requirement that they prove AGM real might be a true number Fact 2) Not one of the GW models has ever come true - be nice if they got something right Fact 3) Average world temps have actually dropped in the last 10 years Fact 4) Thousands of scientists actually look at the data rather than the models - and determined that it's not happening Fact 5) Scientists in Japan and Russia ( as well as others) believe that the earth is actually moving towards a cooling period Fact 6) Climate models are not yet sophisticated enough to account for clouds and the oceans Fact 7) The Arctic is growing rapidly despite the IPCC prediction that the Arctic would be ice free by the end of 2012

Look at facts - not models or theory - This is a major issue because it is being used to control what we are allowed to do in the future. This is not about a clean environment, nor using our resources efficiently. Consensus is not science - if it was, Copernicus would have never been proven right. Einstein once said about science - its not about the 100 experiments that prove you right - its about the one experiment that proves you wrong. (I have paraphrased this) Man made global warming models and theories are proven wrong every single day. I suggest you read both sides of the argument.

June 2, 2012 at 9:58 p.m.
rick1 said...

gjuster, good post, here is an article that backs up your post with facts that you and conservative may find interesting.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_global_warming_hoax_how_soon_we_forget.html

June 2, 2012 at 10:03 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

If these "scientists" were to come right out and say, "yeah, you're right, global-warming is false", just look at how much funding they would lose!

That's tantamount to a car salesman telling prospective car buyers that their old car is just fine and they don't need a new one!

And Easy123 has STILL not told us what constitutes a "normal" climate!

Normal compared to what Easy? What evil naysayer was responsible for for the last ice-age? 10,000 years ago? The glaciers and ice caps have melted numerous times over the course of earth's history, long before we "evil humans" came along!

Someone sold you a bridge and now you try and justify it!

And by the way, I wonder if Al Gore thinks about global warming when he's blowing carbon monoxide out the tailpipes of his Gulfstream III! You know his MANSION is said to use five times the electricity of a normal house! Freakin' hypocrites!

June 2, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.
rick1 said...

TOES, remember when Obama went to Brazil and asked them to increase their drilling for oil and we would be their best customer? How come we did not hear anything from easy and others who believe in global warming since environmentalists say fossil fuels increase global warming?

June 2, 2012 at 10:36 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

And rick 1, excellent link you provided!

"Without CO2, nothing would be green"! Awesome!

June 2, 2012 at 10:37 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Because Obama always gets a free pass from liberals.

June 2, 2012 at 10:57 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rick1, Toes, gjuster,

None of you have an argument. All of the references I have posted prove each of you wrong. Read the articles. Watch the video. Look at the scientific evidence. It is mind boggling to me that all three of you are this stupid.

June 2, 2012 at 10:57 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

All any of that garbage proves is that your "scientists" want the government cash cow flowing.

June 2, 2012 at 10:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

No one gets a free pass, jackass. You don't get it. This isn't a political thing. That's what you fail to understand. It's science. Every country needs to do something about this. Every individual needs to do something. Or else the next generations will suffer for it. I might never live to see it but my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren probably will.

June 2, 2012 at 11 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You're in a tiny little minority there Easy (as in easily fooled)! You'd believe anything liberal junk science tells you! That makes YOU the biggest moron of all!

June 2, 2012 at 11:02 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Show me where all of these scientists are getting "government cash flow? Most of these scientists work at universities. The IPCC isn't funded by the government.

Prove your claims. I dare you.

June 2, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

I feel sorry for your wife and children if you have them. You are absolutely psychotic. Unbelievable. You should really get yourself checked out. And I mean that.

June 2, 2012 at 11:07 p.m.
rick1 said...

easy said "Show me where all of these scientists are getting "government cash flow? Most of these scientists work at universities. The IPCC isn't funded by the government."

"Prove your claims. I dare you."

Here you go easy. Is this proof enough?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-taxpayers-cover-nearly-half-cost-un-s-global-warming-panel

June 2, 2012 at 11:34 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Not at all.

It's not exclusively government funded. And now that funding has been slashes, why don't they change their stance? What about the other 50+ scientific bodies/organizations that agree with the IPCC? Who has more at stake here? Scientists or oil companies?

June 2, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You're off your rocker weirdo! You subject yourself and your kids (if you have any) to this insane crap called global warming. Your "scientists" manipulating data just to justify their cash flow! YOU need your head examined!

June 3, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
Easy123 said...

You are an idiot. You have provided no references or proof against global warming. I have provided numerous articles and references. You are an imbecile. You have no argument. You have been proved wrong over and over. I highly suggest you go to a psychologist or something because you have lost touch with reality. You are making stuff up and accepting it as truth. You are truly a fool. Unbelievable.

June 3, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Click on my first two sentences on my above post slick! ( 9:30 PM)THEY'RE BOTH LINKS!! STRAIGHT FROM THIS NEWS SOURCE! NOW GO HIDE IN YOUR BASEMENT WITH THE REST OF YOUR FREAKS! THERE'S SOME REFERENCES FOR YOU STUPID SHEEP!! YOU'RE A WAY BIGGER JACKOFF THAN EVEN YOU COULD IMAGINE!!

June 3, 2012 at 6:47 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Those are from this newspaper. How is that at all reliable? The TFP or NASA?

I've provided scientific articles. You provide newspaper articles.

I feel sorry for your family. Dealing with an idiot like you everyday must be a terrible life for them. Congratulations on your ignorance!

June 3, 2012 at 11:55 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Scientists that are on the liberal agenda payroll!

June 4, 2012 at 8:24 a.m.
Easy123 said...

InterAcademy Council, IPCC, European Academy of Sciences and Arts, International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences, Network of African Science Academies, Royal Society of New Zealand, Royal Society of the United Kingdom, Polish Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Chemical Society ,American Institute of Physics, American Physical Society, Australian Institute of Physics, European Physical Society, European Science Foundation, Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies, American Geophysical Union, American Society of Agronomy, Crop Science Society of America, and Soil Science Society of America, European Federation of Geologists, European Geosciences Union, Geological Society of America, Geological Society of London, International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics, National Association of Geoscience Teachers, American Meteorological Society, Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society, and there are at least 30 more separate scientific organizations that have concurred with the view of the IPCC on global warming.

You mean to tell me that all of the organizations and scientists are on the "liberal agenda payroll"? How can you seriously believe that? How can you ignore all the scientific data and facts? Are you a complete moron? This conspiracy theory you have going about global warming makes YOU look INSANE. You have truly lost touch with reality.

June 4, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Wow! You totally refuted all the scientific data with that article and 80 year old picture!

You really need to take a step back and examine all the data. Because you have already made yourself look foolish, now you just look incompetent.

June 4, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.
Easy123 said...

This is from your own article:

As with all polls, the answers you get depend on the questions you ask. We found that almost all climate scientists believe that the world has been warming: 97% agree that "global average temperatures have increased" during the past century. But not everyone attributes that rise to human activity. A slight majority (52%) believe this warming was human-induced, 30% see it as the result of natural temperature fluctuations and the rest are unsure.

When it comes to current conditions, however, the consensus in favor of human warming reemerges: 84% believe "human-induced greenhouse warming" is now occurring, compared with only 5% who reject this conclusion. And 74% say the "currently available scientific evidence substantiates" its occurrence, while only 9% disagree. So global warming doubters are a genuinely small minority among American climate scientists; it is difficult to believe that any transgressions against scientific procedures or the scientific ethos uncovered by Climategate are going to change that.

June 4, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
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