published Sunday, June 17th, 2012

Super Lance

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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WHS1970 said...

What will the wing nuts say about this one?

June 17, 2012 at 12:55 a.m.
wrdrennan said...

The case against him is actually quite weak. There's very little hard evidence against him. This is why the justice department dropped the case: there was no real evidence. There are some 2009 & 2010 blood samples "consistent" with EPO use and blood transfusion. This is years after the TdF victories, it's not clear what "consistent with" means ie how much validity there is to that conclusion. Otherwise, it is almost exclusively "witness" testimony which is always suspect. There was some reference to a urine sample that was covered up in 2001, but again, this is based on witness testimony and is always suspect. So--- is he guilty? Based on what I've seen so far, we're never going to know.

June 17, 2012 at 1:58 a.m.
fairmon said...

Is this an attempt to divert people's attention from the day's real issues? "It is the economy stupid" which is not just the stock market being up or down.

June 17, 2012 at 4:13 a.m.
fairmon said...

Who really gives a crap if he did or did not dope? Does this call for another extensive and expensive congressional investigation?

June 17, 2012 at 4:41 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

IT'S BUSH'S FAULT

June 17, 2012 at 6:11 a.m.

Hey Clay why no cartoon of POTUS allowing 800 thousand illegal's to stay in this country? I know cause you HATE the truth that's why!!

June 17, 2012 at 7:42 a.m.
alprova said...

harp3339 wrote: "Is this an attempt to divert people's attention from the day's real issues?"

This is Clay Bennett's forum. He selects the topics to place up for discussion. It is not up to the participants to pick and choose what the topic of the day is. Like it or not, today's cartoon is quite topical.

"..."It is the economy stupid" which is not just the stock market being up or down."

Don't you think there has been enough arguing about the state of the economy already? Some of you are having full-blown panic attacks and have been hyperventilating for three and a half years, blaming President Obama for anything and everything having to do with the state of the economy. We get it already.

"Who really gives a crap if he did or did not dope?"

Well this time around, it is the USADA that gives a crap.

"Does this call for another extensive and expensive congressional investigation?"

The USADA operates independently and does not answer to Congress. The Federal investigation into these accusations was closed several months back without any formal charges being brought against the man.

This entire mess smells to high heaven of an organization seeking to pick up where the Federal investigation left off, in order to boost its credibility.

The man has been randomly tested more than 500 times for illicit drugs and has passed each and every one of them. If proof of his alleged doping cannot be found that way, I seriously doubt that USADA's fishing expedition will turn over any proof through another round of unjustifiable investigations.

In the meantime, Lance Armstrong's stellar reputation hangs in the balance.

June 17, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.
alprova said...

LTUSA wrote: "Hey Clay why no cartoon of POTUS allowing 800 thousand illegal's to stay in this country? I know cause you HATE the truth that's why!!"

That discussion was related to yesterday's cartoon. I guess you missed it.

The President's decision to allow that particular block of illegal immigrants to stay without the threat of deportation was a sound and good decision.

Why?

Because they are not criminals. They were brought here as children by their adult parents. Why punish them for decisions that they did not make themselves? Like it or not, and it's obvious that you don't. The President got this one right.

Would you like a little cheese to go with your whine?

June 17, 2012 at 7:51 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Love the USAorleave: Once again, they're not illegal aliens. They're unregistered democrats.

June 17, 2012 at 8:05 a.m.
mymy said...

Al: take a day off from your TFP job.

President Obama: The Biggest Government Spender In World History “The U.S. has never before had a President who thinks so little of the American people that he imagines he can win re-election running on the opposite of reality. But that is the reality of President Obama today.” “Waving a planted press commentary, Obama recently claimed on the campaign stump, “federal spending since I took office has risen at the slowest pace of any President in almost 60 years.””

If you believe this, I have some ocean front property to sell you in AZ!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/06/14/president-obama-the-biggest-government-spender-in-world-history/

June 17, 2012 at 8:32 a.m.

Jack, you are right how could I forget. It is clear now why Osama want the his puppet Holder to stop states from purging them from their voting records. Hey ALPO it should be brought out every day not just one, you fool!!!!! It would have been on of Clay's post that lasted weeks if it had been anyone but B.O.

June 17, 2012 at 8:53 a.m.
alprova said...

mymy wrote: "federal spending since I took office has risen at the slowest pace of any President in almost 60 years."

"If you believe this, I have some ocean front property to sell you in AZ!"

How much? Because it is mostly true.

When are you people going to learn that the expressed opinions of blogging contributors, even on a credible website, are not fact?

Read up on the facts, if you dare...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/23/facebook-posts/viral-facebook-post-says-barack-obama-has-lowest-s/

June 17, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
rogerdodger said...

Look Dumb Al has graced us with yet another STUPID opinion. I can see where it is easy for him to say that Obama allowing 800 thousand ILLEGAL immigrants to stay is ok. He thinks that all retired veterans or vets wounded in action are a drain on this country's economy. Let's forget that just give him freedom to say the stupid things he does.

June 17, 2012 at 8:58 a.m.
Easy123 said...

They aren't a drain on the economy. They will boost the economy. The are educated, hard working American-born sons and daughters of immigrant parents. You're a fool if you think these people will hurt the economy.

June 17, 2012 at 9:09 a.m.

Easy try ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT PARENTS it is amazing how many you of you want to forget that part

June 17, 2012 at 9:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy, are you a citizen of the world? Do you want to be global citizen? Just curious.

June 17, 2012 at 9:12 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I didn't forget that part. I know their parents were "illegal".

Jack,

What are you talking about?

June 17, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.
conservative said...

The loontoonist has judged Armstrong guilty. The loontoonist is consistent in bad judgments.

June 17, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy. You know. No borders, no nations. Just be world citizens. Whadda ya think?

June 17, 2012 at 9:22 a.m.
Easy123 said...

No.

June 17, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.

Oh, I get it. Clay is auditioning for a position with MAD Magazine. They will certainly appreciate his level of profundity.

June 17, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
alprova said...

rogerdodger wrote: "Look Dumb Al has graced us with yet another STUPID opinion."

Your detrimental opinion of my opinion is of no consequence. We simply disagree, and apparently you are upset with the expression of my opinion.

"I can see where it is easy for him to say that Obama allowing 800 thousand ILLEGAL immigrants to stay is ok."

Oh...thank you. I'm so glad to read that you are able to see something.

"He thinks that all retired veterans or vets wounded in action are a drain on this country's economy."

That is an absolute lie. I have never posted any such sentiment and I challenge you to back it up with a link to any post of mine containing the above wording.

"Let's forget that just give him freedom to say the stupid things he does."

Re-read the above sentence to see if it makes sense to you. It sure doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps you need to calm down before you post, so that you can type accurately without spitting all over your monitor, thus obscuring your vision of what you just typed.

I don't want to upset your little apple cart, but the fact is that it's been quite a number of years since American soldiers of any description have fought in battles to defend freedoms for any or all Americans.

Those battles occurred and were won approximately 260 and 147 years, respectively.

But I'll be happy to amend my statement the next time this country is invaded by another nation in an attempt to take it over, provided that our military successfully prevails in victory.

June 17, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

"I don't want to upset your little apple cart, but the fact is that it's been quite a number of years since American soldiers of any description have fought in battles to defend freedoms for any or all Americans." Rare agreement with alprova

June 17, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Hey Jack, did it hurt when that lightning bolt hit?

June 17, 2012 at 11:31 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

The loontoonist has judged Armstrong guilty. The loontoonist is consistent in bad judgments.

And if the cartoon painted Armstrong as "innocent until proven guilty", your statement would be that it was a leftist cartoon excusing drug use.

June 17, 2012 at 11:32 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

I would say that the Korean war and the Vietnam war were to defend America against communism. The Soviet Union's missiles weren't aimed at Seoul or Saigon, they were aimed at your house and mine.

June 17, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.

Hey Alpo, military people are at risk EVERY DAY to defend this country and it's freedoms. Just because you were to much of coward to join the armed forces does not mean they are not vital to the protection of this country.

June 17, 2012 at 11:40 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

As has already been stated here, Armstrong has been tested so many times it's ridiculous, and he has come up clean each time. It seems to me that someone, or this particular organization, has some kind of vendetta or ulterior motive for insisting on dogging Armstrong. After so much testing, I don't know what they could possibly hope to uncover that isn't based on mere witness testimony. And that being the case, we will never really know for sure. It's all a senseless waste of time.

June 17, 2012 at 11:42 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm

29 out of fifty democrat senators voted FOR the war in Iraq. Including the liberal hero Harry Reid.

June 17, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.

Obama has a lot in common with illegal aliens, he's pretty good at ignoring the law. They're not immigrants, they're illegal aliens. Calling them immigrants is an insult to those who make the effort to come in this country the proper way.

So, I guess we're supposed to be offended by Lance Armstrongs problems with the law, but we're not supposed to be concerned by our president's failure to enforce laws. Ignoring the law, failing to enforce the law, breaking the law, it's all lawlessness.

June 17, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

So he rode a bike on drugs!! Big freakin' deal!!

Our former "choom gang" member-in-chief is president!! Wouldn't you think that's a little more important?

I agree with harp, nothing more than diversion tactics from Obama's dismal record and re-election campaign efforts.

June 17, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Some posters seem to want to hang on to yesterday's topic of immigration. We will never come to a solution as long as the Repubs and their rabid teabagging supporters insist on punishing the immigrants first and foremost, not focusing on what might actually solve or mitigate the problem. We are as guilty as the illegals for their being here, since we have done nothing in the past to discourage them. If any punsishment is to be meted out, our own business owners who have knowingly hired the illegals and our politicians who have been lax in enforcing the laws are as deserving of retribution as the illegals themselves. Obama's most recent attempt to at least mitigate the problem is to be commended - it is both fair and reasonable. But "fair and reasonable" are two words that are not even in the vocabulary of these Obama haters and they wouldn't dare commend him for anything. Every breath he takes is reason enough for these mad dogs of hate to curse and despise his very existence.

The very foundation of this nation is based on illegal acts: we took it from its native inhabitants through genocide, rape, pillage, and plunder, without so much as giving even the ones who expressed a desire to coexist a chance to live peacefully alongside of us. Then when we had all but eradicated them and forced our way of life upon those who remained, we continued to build the country with the free slave labor of another race of people. And even when the Emancipation Proclomation freed them theoretically, we continued to abuse and mistreat them for another hundred years. We are all illegals, actually.

June 17, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.
shifarobe said...

I heard that BO had a special dinner for some queer riot a bunch of years of back. Looks like his idea of a hero are men who dress like women and men who stick their wieners where they don't belong. OH YEAH, let's not forget all the heroes who slink across our border from Mexico. If you're a transgender freak, "GAY" or an illegal alien YOU'RE JUST FINE with BO. THE REST OF US ORDINARY FOLK WHO JUST WORK AND PAY TAXES ARE NOTHING BUT A DAMN PROBLEM TO HIM. CHOOM GANG MEATHEAD.

June 17, 2012 at 12:13 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

The libs here keep calling them immigrants. The real term is illegal aliens. immigrants get in line LEGALLY!

Would the "kind hearted" Obama and the rest of you liberals feel the same way if these illegals were known republican voters and a republican president did this?

Obama sees the Union vote dwindling and needs to replace them. It's awfully coincidental how out of nowhere the president allows 800,000 new democratic voters free to roam! Now lets see how fast he gets photo I.D.'s in their hands.

If they voted republican, Obama would have an electric fence 100 feet high from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean!

June 17, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Leave the doors to your abode open, lighst on, with a sign out on the road saying "come on in". JR

That is exactly what this country has done. We have left the door open and yet you act like the ones who have walked in, seeking a better opportunity, are to be blamed more than the ones who have allowed this to happen. You're directing your hate at the wrong target.

June 17, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Facist thug is dead on JonRoss, today's Walter Williams article explains it brilliantly.

June 17, 2012 at 12:23 p.m.
patriot1 said...

The French found some strange/foreign substances in Armstrong's room when he was there......after an analysis it turned out to be soap and deodrant.

June 17, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I am glad you agree ricky, Obama has to go. He has pulled back on border defense, lied about, and now by illegal orders thrown the border wide open." - JR

You are a perfect example of someone who doesn't even bother with facts before making a statement. You lash out with a knee-jerk reaction and spew your venom just because it makes you feel better, I guess.

Obama has actually doubled the number of border patrol agents since 2004. In 2004 under Bush there were approximately 10,000 boots on the ground, at our borders. Today there are over 20,000. I wouldn't exactly call that "throwing the borders wide open." Whatever you might think of Obama, at least make your comments consistent with the facts.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/10/barack-obama/obama-says-border-patrol-has-doubled-number-agents

At least Obama is addressing the issue and trying to do something about it. Every other administration, both Dem and Repub, has pretty much turned a blind eye to it. They are the ones who have helped to create the problem we now have.

June 17, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: " The loontoonist is consistent in bad judgments."

Said the pot to the kettle.

June 17, 2012 at 1:02 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "I would say that the Korean war and the Vietnam war were to defend America against communism."

They were? What possible threat did either country present to this nation?

"The Soviet Union's missiles weren't aimed at Seoul or Saigon, they were aimed at your house and mine"

Ahem...the last time I checked, not one shot was fired or one American boot has ever hit the ground in the Soviet Union.

Try again.

June 17, 2012 at 1:07 p.m.

Apparently people are confusing work visas with giving people voting rights.

I wonder what mental performance de-enhancing drugs they're taking.

Besides, it seems to reflect a strange lack of understanding of electoral politics. Do they think anything a politician does is NOT about getting votes? Do they think Mitt Romney's promises aren't about getting votes the same as Obama's? Just a different calculation.

And it'd be the same if we had a king instead, so don't believe that'll get you out of it.

But all of this was debated in Greece, long ago. Is this news to folks or something?

JonRoss, North Korea is an isolationist and authoritarian nation, but claims to be a Democratic Republic, which is as false as the lip service appeals they made to Communism, and even then, they've decided to replace it with their current "Military First" ideology.

All you can learn from it is the perils of letting somebody else garner too much power and influence that they can use to abuse others. Doesn't matter whether they're pretending to be Comrade, CEO, Citizen or Curate.

Or is this sentiment unacceptable to you unless you're specifically declaiming Obama being an evil dictator?

June 17, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

TOES: I had a gas pain about the time I said I agreed with AL....maybe it was that.

June 17, 2012 at 1:25 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "Hey Alpo, military people are at risk EVERY DAY to defend this country and it's freedoms."

You added another word there, which does change the dynamics of the argument a little, but the last time the military was truly used to defend this nation from attack by a country that threatened the very freedom of our people have, was during the Revolutionary War.

The statement I responded to was alluding to my freedom to offer my opinion being due to his or her service in the military. That is not a fact that holds true today or anytime in the last 260 years.

Even the attack on Pearl Harbor was not an invasion to take away our freedoms or to take over our country. It was an attack on our military.

On 9/11, we were attacked by terrorists, whose only goal was to deprive a small portion of Americans of their lives -- not to take away any of this entire nation's freedoms.

Protecting a nation is one thing. Protecting our freedom is a whole other ball game. And pardon me, but the simple fact is that no member of this nation's military has stood up to a threat to the freedom of any American since the Civil War.

"Just because you were to much of coward to join the armed forces does not mean they are not vital to the protection of this country."

Sir, I have issued no statement of disrespect or loathing of our military, nor have I ever stated that they are not vital, but the claim that our military has defended the freedom of this nation during our lifetime is hype and it is simply an untrue claim.

Now if you want to offer that our military stands ready to defend this nation's freedoms, I will be in full agreement.

I rest my case.

For the record, my lack of military service is not due to any cowardice on my part. I turned 18 during a time of peace, during the Carter years, when the military was experiencing immense downsizing at the time, due to the end of the Vietnam War a few years back.

June 17, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.

JonRoss, sorry for your confusion, they're clearly two very different things. Maybe you should try some five-hour energy to improve your ability to concentrate? Not to mention remember facts. Obama's announcement yesterday was for Visas, not for voting.

Beyond that, actually, it was Rick Scott's original secretary of state who reduced the number from the wild claim of 182,000 (not what I'd call a "few hundred thousand", but perhaps your usage differs from mine) due to errors. Rick Scott insisted on proceeding, but the Secretary of State refused, and resigned. Sure, he said it was because of the commute, but it sure seemed timely.

Eric Holder wasn't involved till Rick Scott decided to try to do a voter purge in the 90-day period before a federal election. That was of less than 3000 voters.

Do you know what the reason is for that law? It's because it can take time to disprove such allegations when they are false, and it's considered better to have windows where such processes can't be abused.

Given that there was a long period before the election, why didn't Rick Scott act sooner?

Oh I know! Then more people would get to keep their votes.

And really, you complain about Barack Obama not being able to speak without a script? Huh? Have you met him in person or something? Or are you just repeating the hypocritical assertions against teleprompters fostered by Fox News? Which never mentions their own prompts they read from, for some reason. Turn on your captions though, and you might see where some of the verbal "slip-ups" come from. Besides, comparing him to Mitt Romney, and I'm not seeing an improvement. It actually kinda makes me discredit your complaints, not that your references to "Stalinist" and "OWS" didn't already make you a poor source. But Mitt Romney? He's got an even worse personality when it comes to his public speaking. His response to the dog-on car incident, his comments to NASCAR fans, his comments about the biscuits and the doughnut. Yeah, you're really being genuine with your complaint there.

June 17, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Communist China was marching south into south Korea. China was armed exclusively with the Soviet Union's weapons. Korea and Vietnam by themselves were not a threat to our freedom.

However, by allowing the Soviet Union and red China to run over any country it wanted unchecked, The U.S. would be putting itself at more and more risk. The U.S. could not let that happen.

Khrushchev proved the U.S. point by wasting no time putting nuclear missiles in communist Cuba. So our policy at that time of fighting communism wherever we could was sound.

I would call them wars to defend freedom.

By the way, I never said we had boots on the ground in the Soviet Union.

June 17, 2012 at 1:40 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "With Barack of Nazerath obviously still sucking on the whacky weed what's the big deal with an athelete cheating ?"

You can't begin to prove that the President still smokes dope, but even if he does...so what?

People don't get up in arms over any stigma attached to smoking pot these days, as the reception to that particular charge has shown. The President admitted to having smoked pot during the 2008 election.

People all over the nation, with the exception of people like you, yawned at this latest attempt to drag down his reputation.

June 17, 2012 at 1:43 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Alprova. The revolutionary war wasn't to DEFEND freedom! It was to GAIN freedom! Specifically, the freedom from "taxation without representation"! Wrong!

June 17, 2012 at 1:47 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "Show us where your humanity is rickyroo, alpo, and other dranged ProgDems. Leave the doors to your abode open, lighst on, with a sign out on the road saying "come on in". Keep that frige stocked and unlimited cash on the kitchen table. Time to put up or shut the hell up."

Your argument is pathetic. Illegal immigrants, as a general rule, come here seeking to contribute to society -- not to steal anything or to soak up freebies. If you were not so blinded by your hate, you might understand that.

"The U.S. working class should not have to pay the price for a corrupt Mexican government."

Illegal immigrants come here from many different countries. Mexicans are only part of the picture. South Americans come here in droves too.

June 17, 2012 at 1:50 p.m.

Wrongo, JonRos. Florida's federal primary is in August. Early August, less than 90 days away. Primaries are considered elections too, for various reasons, as they're conducted by actual election staff.

You really don't have the facts right. As usual. Thus your claims are once again discredited. 182,000 was a wild claim, and I wouldn't call it a few hundred thousand, I'd say the number specifically. My objection was to your usage being what I'd consider over-broad and an attempt to create an appearance of a greater problem than it is through choice of words. As it seems to have been, even though you won't admit it.

But you're just full of BS. The number was reduced to less than three thousand anyway. You didn't mention that, did you?

Yeah, I know you want to believe Mitt Romney's going to be able to steal this election like George W. Bush did by disenfranchising voters, but this time the DOJ is paying attention to the tricks.

Don't worry though, Mitt Romney can still lie his way through the campaign. Apparently nobody's going to call him on his lies.

June 17, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

JonRoss, are you going to require MRI's and PET Scans now? Weren't satisfied with the Birth Certificate, were you?

Great, when can we expect Mitt Romney to release his results?

June 17, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "My child can't find a job this summer and Barack of Nazareth just popped 800,000 illegals into the work force."

If your (working age) child can't find a job in the Chattanooga area, then he or she is not looking hard enough. There are plenty of open jobs out here, but you have to actually apply for them.

"Their illegal parents should be supporting them, not me and my child. Obama is a fascist thug."

And you are nothing but a typical mindless Obama basher singing the same tune over and over. Nothing new to see here.

June 17, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.

JonRoss, you're right, we, the working class, shouldn't. But corporations benefit greatly from having illegal immigrants as workers since they don't have to treat them right.

Let's deal with the cause of the immigration. Take away the carrot!

Sure it's a rotten and moldy one, but to a starving man, it's a feast.

So let's punish the people giving them jobs.

And complaining about a Tampa Bay paper? Being a front for Obama?

That's a laugh. You can find the same facts reported in dozens of papers. Heck, you probably believe the recent editorial the claimed the 2600 people were confirmed illegal voters, when in reality, 500 of the people had confirmed that they were actually legal citizens with the right to vote.

Thanks again, for showing you don't care about the facts. Sorry, but Rick Scott is not going to get to steal Florida for Mitt Romney. Heck, he might be the one in prison himself.

June 17, 2012 at 2:03 p.m.
alprova said...

"The libs here keep calling them immigrants. The real term is illegal aliens. immigrants get in line LEGALLY!"

The choice as to what to call them is a personal choice. Your assessment of them does not matter.

"Would the "kind hearted" Obama and the rest of you liberals feel the same way if these illegals were known republican voters and a republican president did this?"

On this, it would not matter to me. But then, the Republicans are the ones who have made it political through their constant rejections to do a thing to address the situation with anything other that abject distaste for fellow human beings.

"Obama sees the Union vote dwindling and needs to replace them. It's awfully coincidental how out of nowhere the president allows 800,000 new democratic voters free to roam! Now lets see how fast he gets photo I.D.'s in their hands."

Those 800,000 people will not be allowed to vote. They will not be U.S. citizens anytime soon. Your ignorance is astounding.

"If they voted republican, Obama would have an electric fence 100 feet high from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean!"

Of course, people much like yourself, only see this entire scenario in political terms. Forget the humanitarian aspects altogether. This and many other issues are why the Republicans are setting themselves up for a very big disappointment this fall.

June 17, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.

Really, you thought they were promising instant solutions?

You're reaching there. Especially since it took several months for them to begin to implement any solutions, when you consider that, the employment under Obama is up considerably.

The healthcare system does need more work, implementing the Republican solution wasn't my idea, but surely you don't believe that Mitt Romney is being honest when he claims that the US Navy has fewer ships than after World War I...even if taken as literally true, it's so distant from the reality of the situation that you're showing your commitment to fraud.

Thanks again.

June 17, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "Look at North and South Korea today and you can see why alprova and the Commucrats currently in power in the U.S. are stark raving ignorant."

What possible point could you attempt to be making?

South Korea is the only nation being threatened by North Korea.

June 17, 2012 at 2:13 p.m.

JonRoss: Ah, you blame the elite Democrats huh? Then ask yourself why Texas wrote an exception in their laws against employing illegal immigrants excusing those who hire domestic laborers and gardeners?

Maybe Rep. Debbie Riddle is a closet Liberal.

alprova, what? I thought every nation was under the scourge of North Korea's vile super-villain who is at least as deadly as Doctor Doom!

June 17, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "The reason why the ProgDem elite opposed these wars is because people like the Kennedys, Kerrys, and the ProgDem elite looked upon Marxist rule as a good thing. And to this day the Obamists fall right into line with this sick mentality."

You are doing nothing more than spouting out pure and adulterated crap.

I'm opposed to our modern military's version of war for one simple reason. Our military should only be used in the defense of this nation, and never to police the rest of the world as a means by which to change it.

I seriously doubt that you could define the word Marxism without looking it up. You type it like a child does, who hears it and thinks it's cool to use.

June 17, 2012 at 2:20 p.m.

Perhaps we should impeach the people calling for the use of US military assets in Syria.

Or at least call them out?

June 17, 2012 at 2:24 p.m.

It's clear to me that JonRoss always insists on doing the opposite of what Obama does.

Obama helps take out Libya's dictator? That's bad. Obama doesn't help take out Syria's dictator? That's bad.

You're consistent...in your opposition to Obama.

Obama should probably come out in support for eating Apple Pie, just so you can declare it anathema to America.

June 17, 2012 at 2:30 p.m.
mymy said...

Obama Prayer:

It may be true that you can't fool all the people all the time, but you can fool enough of them to rule a large country.

June 17, 2012 at 2:30 p.m.

Mitt Romney's Motto:

It may be true that money can't buy you the love of the people, but you can pay for enough lie, to fool the people into thinking they should trust you.

I wonder if Lance Armstrong is feeling lonely.

June 17, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

What did Romney lie about again bulbs? I forget.

June 17, 2012 at 2:40 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

I also demand to see Lance's birth certificate! His REAL one, not a fake one like Obama's was.

June 17, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "The problem is Holder is on the verge of spending a little time in Federal prison and he is throwing out wild distractions."

I hope you're not holding your breath on that one. Holder has done nothing illegal as Attorney General that he could be prosecuted for.

"But the fact that we are discussing it means this Obama pimp is not going to get away with yet another attempt by the ProgDems at stealing yet another presidential election in Florida."

Oh brother....

In 2006, private citizen Rick Scott was mistaken for a dead man and got hassled when he tried to vote at the Naples City Hall.

"You can’t vote because you’re dead. You passed away, according to our voter rolls." He pulled out his driver’s license and insisted he was alive. "I showed them my ID. They let me vote provisionally. I’m sure it counted."

But is he truly sure it counted?

Apparently, these type of shenanigans have been going on for years in Florida. Occasionally it bites a Republican in their hind end. One can only hope that his effort to continue the practice bites a whole bunch more of them.

June 17, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.
mymy said...

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

We are being destroyed within and Obama has done and is doing all he can to accelerate the process.

June 17, 2012 at 2:50 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

The libs think Obama won in a landslide. He didn't! And now he's losing supporters hand over fist. He needs a miracle.

June 17, 2012 at 2:53 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "I am glad you agree with me that Obama was wrong to use U.S. military assests against Libya."

I can't agree or disagree with a thing you don't type.

"And that you also agree that he should be impeached if he uses U.S. military assest in Syria."

Same answer.

But now that you have typed it, I might point out to you that most of the Republican lawmakers feel that the President didn't go or hasn't gone far enough in either of those countries to assist their citizens.

A President John McCain would have had our military all over both of those countries, if he had his way, or haven't you been paying attention to his public statements?

Your bashing of the President is only noteworthy for its consistency. The substance of which is keenly hypocritical, and so easy to point out.

June 17, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

What supporters is he losing?

Keep up that false hope.

June 17, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.
raygunz said...

Al,Happy,it must be a slow day for you guys to waste time arguing with these peckerwoods.lol

June 17, 2012 at 2:58 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You're the one with false hope Easilyfooled! You're still thinking Obama still has the mojo! The thrill is gone! The mysticism is no longer applicable! The emperor has no clothes!

He won by only six points, and that was when the people had Obama fever! Well, the Obama fever is over and he's toast!

June 17, 2012 at 3:13 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "What did Romney lie about again bulbs? I forget."

Indeed you have. Romney has done complete 180's on several issues, specifically for his Presidential bid.

"I will work and fight for stem cell research." "In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise."

*I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose." "I never really called myself pro-choice."

"I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation." "There's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs."

"I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush." "Ronald Reagan is... my hero."

"Roe v. Wade has gone too far." "I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam." "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there."

"This is a completely airtight kennel mounted on the top of our car." "They're not happy that my dog loves fresh air."

"I like mandates. The mandates work." "I think it's unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front."

Most recently, Romney's stance on the immigration issue is troublesome and very telling to the propensity for this man to lie through his teeth;

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/17/1100802/-Mitt-Romney-Lies-Again-FACT-GOP-Filibustered-Dream-Act-Twice-in-2010

June 17, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "He won by only six points, and that was when the people had Obama fever! Well, the Obama fever is over and he's toast!"

The polls are changing week by week, and day by day in some places. Neither man at this point is winning. They are neck and neck. To sit there and to state that Mitt Romney is going to win is laughable, to say the least.

Lots can happen and most certainly will in four and a half months.

June 17, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

All I said was if he won the first time by only six points at the height of popularity, he surely cannot hold six points after four years as a failure.

June 17, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Keep up the false hope, Toes!

June 17, 2012 at 3:29 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

There goes Easy, Knowing nothing. Give us some insight on the support Obama's gaining. You know anybody flocking to Obama?

June 17, 2012 at 3:36 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Hey Dumb AL, time of peace, really? That is your excuse of having no back bone or the guts to serve in the military. LOL it is no wonder you look so foolish each time your on here. I guess just because there is not a war going on there is no need for troops. What a joke you are! As far as what I said about how you feel about former military persons, it has been said on here many, many times by many, many different people but I guess like all the other dummycrats you believe every one else wrong and you are the only one right.

June 17, 2012 at 3:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rogerdodger,

Are you a warmonger? Did you serve in the military? If so, during what conflict? Where were you stationed? Did you get deployed?

Also, provide some proof of your claims against ALPROVA.

June 17, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
mymy said...

Another LOL day. The real funny now for a few weeks is the TFP trying to interfere/influence the County Mayor's race. I just ignore this garbage. I'm against everything they are for, but this is the MSM today. You cannot depend on the information it spits out to make a good decision.

June 17, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.
degage said...

How did this get so far from Lance Armstrong and drugs to where you idiots have brought it to. Unless of course you are just bored with the stupid topic and to change it.

June 17, 2012 at 4:09 p.m.
Easy123 said...

JohnRoss,

You're delusional.

June 17, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
Easy123 said...

That statement only adds to my claim. You have nothing to base that prediction on. It's all made up in your little brain.

June 17, 2012 at 4:15 p.m.
Salsa said...

Double standard at play. At least cycling is testing their riders. If the NFL or the NBA actually did that sort of testing then 99% of their players would test positive for some sort of performance enhancing drug.

June 17, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
alprova said...

rodgerdodger wrote: "Hey Dumb AL, time of peace, really? That is your excuse of having no back bone or the guts to serve in the military. LOL it is no wonder you look so foolish each time your on here."

Are you under the impression that I care what you think, believe, or type? You're a nobody, just like myself. Your opinions have no consequence.

"I guess just because there is not a war going on there is no need for troops."

At the time, no there wasn't. Just as there is a glut of troops now and the military is no longer recruiting, the years following the Vietnam War were five times worse, due to the buildup of troops through the draft.

It wasn't until well into Reagan's presidency that the military began a recruitment drive again in response to his building the military back up again due to threats caused by the Cold War.

"As far as what I said about how you feel about former military persons, it has been said on here many, many times by many, many different people but I guess like all the other dummycrats you believe every one else wrong and you are the only one right."

There is only one person who has accused me of the same thing you did, repeatedly I might add, and that person is Rolando. Are you related? Are you Rolando under a new username?

Just as he has never backed his lies with proof, I guess you are going to dodge your responsibility to back up your lie as well.

That's perfectly understandable, given your choice of a username.

June 17, 2012 at 4:29 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "How did this get so far from Lance Armstrong and drugs to where you idiots have brought it to. Unless of course you are just bored with the stupid topic and to change it."

You're new here. Threads often take twists and turns during the course of going back and forth between participants.

Today's discussion has likely taken a turn because Lance Armstrong's problems with the USADA is not a hot button issue on most people's minds. Thus the diversion.

Word of advice: You might refrain from referring to participants in here as "idiots" until you have established yourself a little more.

While it is true that there certainly are quite a few people who regularly post in here who deserve that label, you're not going to make any friends very easily by throwing that word out there without a good reason for doing so.

June 17, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.

Oh look Alpo has got an admirer Easy 123. Guess they have all the answers together. Hey John Ross not only will the Hyprocrats not admit they got their butts kicked in Wisconsin, they will never admit their hero Osama never made one trip to show support for the guy running. He had to many golf outings & fund raisers to attend.

June 17, 2012 at 4:43 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Who isn't admitting that Walker won in Wisconsin? And who isn't admitting that Obama didn't go to Wisconsin?

The strange part is that you are making a big deal about it. I couldn't care less about who the governor is in Wisconsin. It's all you Republicans that use it a rally cry and act as if it means something significant.

June 17, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Hey Easy, I did not know you were the great protector of Dumb Al, but let me guess you are some 20 year punk kid that has never had a job still living in the trailer with your mom. But just so you know I spent 24 years in the US Army so trash like you & Al can show the world what idiots sound like. I served in Desert Shield & Storm and 2 tours to Afghanistan so dont you dare question my service to this country you POS.

June 17, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "Write this down. Romney wins big and takes about 56% of the vote nationally."

How is he going to do that? He's not even polling above 46% now, even in the states that he is expected to carry this November.

He's not even going to carry his home state, that's for sure. Obama leads him by 20 points in Massachusetts. Presidential candidates that don't carry their home states, generally fare poor with the rest of the nation.

It's going to come down to voters in Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Ohio, and Virginia. That most certainly could change, but right now, the rest of the states have pretty much picked their candidate.

If the election were held today, and if the polls are accurate, Obama is leading Romney 265 to 206 in electoral votes, and 75 votes in the above named states could go to either man. All currently favor Obama anywhere between 1.8% and 3%.

But, as I stated earlier, a lot can happen over the next four and a half months, and it will too.

June 17, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "Hey John Ross not only will the Hyprocrats not admit they got their butts kicked in Wisconsin, they will never admit their hero Osama never made one trip to show support for the guy running."

What you dimwitted rotor rooters for the Republicans seem to not understand is that the recent Wisconsin election was not a national one. It was a statewide recall election. Apples and oranges.

You howl about the fact that he didn't make an appearance for the Democratic candidate, yet I know doggone well that you would have howled louder had he done so, given that so many of you are so concerned about the costs associated with the President's travels.

It was not the Democrats against the Republicans. It was overwhelmingly about unions, who supported a Democratic candidate against a Republican Governor whom they felt had stepped over the line.

The Republicans were the ones all worried about losing it, and therefore trotted out every notable Republican they could get.

Scott Walker might still be the Governor, but the power has been shifted in the Wisconsin Senate back to the Democrats. So, it wasn't a total win for the Republicans. Scott Walker is going to have to walk a fine line for the rest of his time in office.

And I might add, recent polls taken in that state show that the President is up on Romney by 4.5%.

June 17, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
mymy said...

It should be clear to everyone by now, that the "clown in chief" will do ANYTHING to stay in the White House. We can now call him "America's First Dictator". Shame on us for allowing this. Shame on the Republicans in the House and Senate to stand by and let this imposter take over. Shame on the Democrats for cheering him on. Shame, Shame, Shame. I feel sorry for all the Veterans of the past 250 years who fought and died for this country. We have let them down, big time. It's hard to feel sorry for the current inhabitants of this country, they were lazy and voted this guy in office - they are the ones who sold the country, and their soul, hoping for a handout.

June 17, 2012 at 5:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

getting nasty on here, lads.

June 17, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.
alprova said...

mymy and joneses are starting to sound like one and the same.

June 17, 2012 at 5:36 p.m.

Hey Alpo I notice you did not mention that 39% of the union people in Wisconsin voted for Walker. It is amazing you tend to leave out crucial information that shows how clueless you are. I am impressed you can read polls but I am sure those were only dummycratic polls because other have it going the other way. If you can be happy your beloved leader can allow almost a million ILLEGAL'S to stay then that's on you but I would bet my last dime if Bush or anyone else had done it you along with your minions would be outraged. That is the difference between party loyalist and independents, it is wrong and I don't care would wants to do it!!!!

June 17, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rogerdoger,

Let me guess, you are one of those "tough guys" that likes to brag about his service and puffs up his chest at anyone and everyone? Your comments portray the ultimate hubris.

I can ask you any question I want, as a matter of fact. And I appreciate your service despite your hubris.

But I would wager that you signed up for the Army. You weren't drafted. When you could have just as easily applied to college or something else. If you had chosen the college route, would you get on here and attempt to belittle people that didn't go to college? I doubt it. Your service is honorable but your attitude and arrogance isn't. My father was drafted into the Army during the Vietnam War and I have never heard him boast of his service as you do or belittle those that haven't served. Your comments are a dishonor to your service and to the people that you claimed to serve.

June 17, 2012 at 5:49 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Easy, how is stating that someone has no respect for the prior military people in any way dishonoring them? That has to be the most asinine statement I have ever heard. It's no wonder you came to the defense of D.A.

June 17, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

You haven't even given proof that he's said what you claimed.

June 17, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.

Raygunz, I did have some free time. Not enough to list all of Romney's lies though. But just the one about the size of the Navy is bad enough. Or the farm he used to bash the federal government...which used a federal grant. Or the factory closed under the Bush administration. Or about the pace of federal spending increases, or about the apology tour. ot to mention his predilection for taking things out of context. If there was video of Obama acting in Macbeth, Romney would probably try to use that.

Degage, yes this forum does fail to stay remotely on topic. I'm sure you'll notice the pattern is consistent. I doubt you will bother to ascribe the blame correctly though.

Salsa, both the NFL and NBA have regular and random drug testing. Exactly what would you do to improve their processes as compared to bicycling?

Alprova, starting to sound the same? I assumed they were in cahoots long ago.

June 17, 2012 at 6:13 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

LOL guess we should start calling you two (or 1) Easy Al since you are defending him/her. I said, if you would read that he has been called out before by others long before you showed up (or maybe not)and have never seen proof otherwise just hatred towards anyone that does not like Osama Obama

June 17, 2012 at 6:19 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "Hey Alpo I notice you did not mention that 39% of the union people in Wisconsin voted for Walker."

Look, I posted on that day that I did not think that Governor Walker deserved to be removed from office. No one should be forced to have to join a union as a condition of employment. Union membership should be 100% voluntary.

Clearly, there are people who voted in Wisconsin who felt the same way. What's the mystery?

"It is amazing you tend to leave out crucial information that shows how clueless you are."

That election had no bearing whatsoever on the Presidential election and the polls prove it. The exit polls on that day also showed that the citizens of Wisconsin favor President Obama over Mitt Romney.

I'm hardly clueless, but apparently you are to the reality of the situation.

"I am impressed you can read polls but I am sure those were only dummycratic polls because other have it going the other way."

Well...they sure didn't include those that can be found on the Fox News website, that's for sure.

Actually, the data I looked at was a combination and averaging of several different polls taken in all 50 states by a research firm that I have been associated with for a few years now, on a part-time basis.

The accuracy is only as good as the honesty of the respondents who participated in the polls. I assure you, all steps were taken to protect against a majority of strictly partisan responses.

"If you can be happy your beloved leader can allow almost a million ILLEGAL'S to stay then that's on you but I would bet my last dime if Bush or anyone else had done it you along with your minions would be outraged."

Nope. Sorry. I have been extremely consistent in my support of immigration reform that will legitimize all illegal immigrants who are already here, and that has been the case since it came up while Bush was in office.

"That is the difference between party loyalist and independents, it is wrong and I don't care would wants to do it!!!!"

I understand and accept your opinion on the subject. Your opinion, as convinced as you are that you are right, does not matter in the grand scheme of things.

As someone pointed out earlier, the vast majority of people who live here in this country now, are descendants of people who all came here illegally, by today's standards.

No one gave you permission or authority over the invitation list. It would be nice if you realized that simple fact of life.

June 17, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
Easy123 said...

rogerdodger,

I'm not defending anyone. I'm calling out your B.S.

If the proof is there then present it. If you make a claim, the onus is on you to prove it. I have yet to see you present a direct quote from ALPROVA that would substantiate your claim.

By the way, when you conservatives say stuff like "libtard", "dummycrat", "Osama Obama", etc. it makes you look immature. Just an observation. It makes me feel like I'm reading a comment from an adolescent child.

June 17, 2012 at 6:26 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al said on June 17, 2012 at 8:54am "When are you people going to learn that the expressed opinions of blogging contributors, even on a credible website, are not fact?"

This what Al cited from his post on June 11, 2012 at 10:54am http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romneys-claim-that-obama-has-raised-taxes-on-millions-of-americans/2012/04/12/gIQA3P9aDT_blog.html

Al, I guess it is alright for you use to use a blog as fact but someone who has an opposing view can not. Waiting for the spin on this one.

June 17, 2012 at 6:31 p.m.
alprova said...

rogerdodger, you either dig up the proof to your accusation that I have ever posted on word of disrespect for the military, or shut-up about it.

You're lying and you know it.

June 17, 2012 at 6:31 p.m.

Easy123, please don't insult the adolescent children's level of discourse.

June 17, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I apologize. I do know some smart kids that can probably argue without calling someone a name.

June 17, 2012 at 6:41 p.m.

Hey Alpo no one is suppose to give anyone authority on this issue you idiot. The fact that they are called ILLEGAL'S is all the authority needed.

June 17, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

LOL the love realtionship between you two is sickening or is just just a muliple personality. Amazing how your remarks are always just a few minutes apart. I don't think that is a coinsidience!! I like the way you complain about name calling while calling someone names typical from the likes of your kind!!

June 17, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
alprova said...

Rick1 wrote: "Al, I guess it is alright for you use to use a blog as fact but someone who has an opposing view can not. Waiting for the spin on this one."

You might have Googled the author's name to save yourself a little embarrassment.

Glenn Kessler works for the Washington Post and exclusively writes those "Fact Checker" columns for the Post. He has demonstrated time and again that he is equally as critical of the left as he is the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Kessler_(journalist)

There is quite a bit of difference between a casual blogger, who writes supposition and unsubstantiated opinion, and someone who writes for a "blog" page of a mainstream newspaper, who supplies facts and figures to substantiate his or her claims.

June 17, 2012 at 6:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Roger,

You spelled "coincidence" wrong.

My "kind"? LOL. You don't deserve to be spoken to. But thanks for your conspiracy theory!

love,

They aren't illegals anymore, IDIOT.

June 17, 2012 at 6:53 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "Hey Alpo no one is suppose to give anyone authority on this issue you idiot. The fact that they are called ILLEGAL'S is all the authority needed."

Your opinion is noted for the record. You too are just writing off at the mouth and nothing you write or say will never have any effect on the immigration policy of this nation.

Are you related to Jan Brewer or Joe Arpaio? They, unlike yourself, are in positions of power, and while they consistently threaten to defy the Federal Gov't, but have yet to do it.

You might as well howl at the moon for all the good that it does for you to offer disagreement and discontent about "illegals."

June 17, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, there are many bloggers on conservative sites who are credible was well. You are the one you said "When are you people going to learn that the expressed opinions of blogging contributors, even on a credible website, are not fact?" You are the one who imimpled opinions of all bloggers are not fact.

You are the one who is an embarrassment.

June 17, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.

Easy, until it is actually signed and put into motion they are in fact still ILLEGAL'S, and funny how you want no one else but you to do the name calling.

June 17, 2012 at 7:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I was using your own word against you. But I guess you can't grasp that.

Who cares if they are "illegals"? They didn't come here by choice. Their parents brought them here. They should have the ability to become citizens.

I'd like to add, the policy took effect immediately when the executive order was made. These people will receive work permits and would be considered "legal". Nothing has to be "signed" and "put into motion". It's already been done. Therefore, you are wrong.

June 17, 2012 at 7:40 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, you keep talking about the democrats taking control of the senate in Wisconsin, but you always fail to mention the Wisconsin legislature is not in session until after the general election in November, at which time 16 of 33 seats are up for grabs. So it really doesn't matter that the Dems gained control of the Senate.

June 17, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, I guess yoiur blogger who get your news from forgot to nmention that about the Wisconsin legislature.

June 17, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

If the Democrats winning the Senate doesn't matter, then why does the gubernatorial winner matter?

June 17, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.

I care if they are Illegal's and so should you but obviously you are so wrapped up in defending Obama that you can't grasp the dangers of allowing almost a million people that should not be here the ability to stay. But for you information this is not in place yet and those that "MAY" get the approval can still be took back across the boarders where they belong.

June 17, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.
Easy123 said...

There are no dangers. Have you read the criteria to be able to get these work permits? It's strict.

They should be here. They are already here. They are educated and hard-working. I'm not defending anyone but this policy. It is a good policy that will help our country.

For your information, the policy takes place immediately. If they meet the requirements, they can get a 2-year work permit that has unlimited renewals.

Your ignorance to fact is making you look stupid. Maybe you should go back to wherever you belong.

June 17, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Hey Love, there is no talking to these fools. It does not matter if all the facts and proofs say otherwise they will never admit they are wrong. It is no wonder this country is in such bad shape. Easy, Osama has yet to sign that act so IDIOT noting has changes as of yet. Get your facts straight FOOL

June 17, 2012 at 8:15 p.m.
alprova said...

Rick1 wrote: "You are the one who is an embarrassment."

Okey dokey. That's your story and you be sure to stick to it.

June 17, 2012 at 8:16 p.m.
Easy123 said...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/obamas_new_immigration_policy.html

"Made by executive order, the new policy takes effect immediately and does not require congressional approval."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immigration-politics-20120617,0,1003811.story

"Appearing in the Rose Garden at the White House, Obama announced Friday that, effective immediately, young immigrants who arrived in the U.S. illegally before age 16 and spent at least five continuous years here would be allowed to stay and apply for work permits if they had no criminal history and met other criteria, such as graduating from high school or serving honorably in the military."

Are you stupid? Or can you just not read? You are wrong. 100% wrong. It is an executive order that takes place IMMEDIATELY. You are the fool. You have no proof or facts. Our country was in bad shape because of imbeciles like you that have no idea what you are talking about and can't even do proper research to back up your claims.

Get your facts straight, IDIOT. Or keep trying to spread your lies and misinformation and I'll keep proving you wrong. It makes no difference to me.

June 17, 2012 at 8:21 p.m.
alprova said...

rogerdodger wrote: "there is no talking to these fools. It does not matter if all the facts and proofs say otherwise they will never admit they are wrong."

Oh...okay...let us know when you offer some facts and proof, so that it can be taken into consideration.

Today, all you have offered is a great big lie that you cannot begin to prove, and the rest of what you have offered is 100% personal opinion, which is never right or wrong.

It's just your opinion.

You're a little weasel, but I'll give you credit for dropping reference to your pathetic lie.

June 17, 2012 at 8:26 p.m.

Roger, yeah I know it is the reason the TFP has threaten to discontinue this just as the Tennessean did. People cry about being called a "name" but then turn around and do the same. They will defend the idiot no matter what. I guess the fact allowing American citizens to have to compete with ILLEGAL's for any job openings is ok with them, But wait there is no real worry of that because there aren't any. But I guess that is not Obama's fault either. He has been the greatest leader the world has ever seen.

June 17, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.
alprova said...

rogerdodger, it appears to me that Easy123 just burned your butt.

Would you care to make a retraction and offer him an apology, or are you going to slink off and pout in the corner until the next time you decide to wade in with a day's worth of misinformation?

June 17, 2012 at 8:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

love,

I am using your names against you.

I'm not defending Obama. I'm defending the policy.

They aren't illegals. And they should be allowed to compete with anyone for any job. They were raised here, went to school here, and worked here. But apparently your sense of entitlement causes you to be a bigot/racist.

Obama has done good and bad. He could have done more and I hope he does more if he gets reelected. He's brought this country out of a great big hole that was dug by your buddy George W. Bush. Why would we ever want another Republican in office?

June 17, 2012 at 8:35 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "I guess the fact allowing American citizens to have to compete with ILLEGAL's for any job openings is ok with them, But wait there is no real worry of that because there aren't any."

People that have the desire for a job have little or no trouble finding them, even in this economy, that is if they truly get out there and look for one.

Don't blame others if all one does is sit on their butt, collecting unemployment checks, expecting a job to fall into their lap.

"But I guess that is not Obama's fault either."

As a matter of fact, someone who does not try to find a job is definitely not President Obama's fault. There are many people who have had to take jobs that they are over-qualified for, who are doing what is necessary until a better opportunity opens up.

"He has been the greatest leader the world has ever seen."

Nobody has suggested any such thing, but he hasn't done a half-bad job as President, given what he walked into on January 20, 2009.

It's a shame that all you negative Nancy's and racist Ronnie's can't see past the end of your noses to look at the truth.

June 17, 2012 at 8:38 p.m.

Lovetheusaorleave, you say they shouldn't be here. Perhaps that is so, though with the arcane bureacracy involved, I can't say that is absolutely the case for all. I do find it funny how many right-wingers will bemoan government red-tape and paper-pushing, but be indifferent to it when it's somebody else bearing the burden. This is true of so many things besides immigration policy though, so it's not surprising. The right-wing conservatives love bemoaning laws except when they can use them.

If only they could notice the discrepancy. But actually, them being "illegals" tends to be a case of word-play, by relying on an emotional reaction to the word. They're illegal, they must be such terrible criminals. No deeper thought required.

Your insistence on using it shows how you're committed to blindness.

I do agree that these forums are poorly managed, but do try to understand the difference in character between the various comments. Describing somebody's arguments as foolish isn't the same as calling them a fool which is very different than some of the hostile and vile language used here. Besides, you will never call out any of the right-wing trolls for their misconduct, I doubt you would even report them, so your concerns ring hollow. They're really just a pathetic attempt at faux outrage by pretending to be a victim.

Rogerdodger, your accusations would be easily refuted just on this page. A more extensive review would confirm it. But really, the accusation is feeble enough that it shows how poor your argument is.

Besides, if you want to talk sycophants, try conservative and joneses, who are such terrible advocates that I believe they must be wielding a false flag.

June 17, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.
davisss13 said...

Jesus Christ, Republicans are braying ax morons.

June 17, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.

Easy 1st and foremost just what hole has Obama got this country out of? If you would open your closed eyes he has made the hole twice as deep. He was the one that said a balanced budget, smaller dept, lower gas prices and lower employment would happen within 2 years. Guess what none of it has! Never once one this board or any other have I ever praised the likes of Bush either. You are a complete idiot for thinking so. I never once supported or voted for him. I am sorry if you and Alpo and the other fools that voted for the idiot playing golf flying around begging for money while the wife & kids go on vacation are satisfied with the job he IS NOT doing but I along with millions of others that voted for him are not. I really dont give a damn if you like it or not. Fact is the ILEEGALS are not citizens and should be deported as the LAW says with the exception of those serving in any branch of the military.

June 17, 2012 at 9:34 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Gas prices are lower. Unemployment is lower than it was. His budget is better than Bush's. The debt is a misleading statistic. Cutting the budget won't get us out of a recession. Sounds pretty good to me.

The illegals you speak of are now "citizens" based on their work permits. They will not be deported. So they can die for our country but they can't live in it? How convenient!

You are a fool sir. And nothing you have said to this point has been true.

Show me evidence of how "bad" this country is doing compared to 2 years ago. We seem to be doing a lot better. I'm sure Fox News or Mitt Romney would want you to believe differently but most of those opinions neglect the facts.

June 17, 2012 at 9:44 p.m.

Gas prices are higher than what they were when he was elected, unemployment is not lower it is at the same % as when he was elected. But his administration has took out over 2 million workers that are out of work but just no longer are counted so in truth it is MUCH higher. What budget??? The only one he has presented he could not even get anyone from his own party to vote in favor of it. Yeah he is doing a swell job. These are all facts you can deny them if you want I dont care.

June 17, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Wow I see Easy Al is still at it talking about how great Osama Obama is. What a fool

June 17, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.

Lovetheusaorleave, lower employment? I think you got that backwards. It doesn't matter though, since you're really just making a complaint without substance. Really, you're like somebody complaining that somebody didn't clean the house...while failing to note how they had to, I dunno, go buy medicine for a sick child. Besides, chances are those promises you claim he said are as distorted and inaccurate as the 8% claim for unemployment.

Especially since you'll never notice how the president isn't a supreme autocrat, false claims of outrage over him being a dictator notwithstanding. Nor do you really make much of an argument with your bewailing vacations and golf time. It's not genuine. I could respect you if I thought your position was one of puritan ascetic virtue, but I don't believe that. Why not? Because your words reflect a personalized opprobrium.

And you know what you need to face? The reality that those you bemoan as illegals are about as criminal as the average software pirate, interstate speeder or marijuana smoker. Unless you want to hire a lot more INS agents, they are going to have to prioritize who they proceed with deporting. The government can do a lot of things, but there are limits. I prefer they concentrate on more substantial offenders.

But hey, if you do that, at least employment will go up.

June 17, 2012 at 10:05 p.m.
rick1 said...

Gas prices are lower. You will give Obama credit for this but it was not his fault when the price of gas was close to $4 a gallon. You say the debt is misleading. The unemployment is misleading. If they counted the people who have givien up looking for work the unemployment rate would be much higher then 8.2% Obama said with his stimulus unemployment would not go above 8% and it would be under 6% right now. Unemployment has been over 8 percent for over 40 months.

Ever notice when the job numbers are not reported in a positive light for Obama the media will say it is unexpected. There is nothing unexpected about it. Obama's policies are the cause of the poor economy.

Here are some facts

http://news.investors.com/article/613025/201205300911/obama-recovery-much-worse-than-average.htm?p=full

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/06/07/the-ongoing-disgrace-that-is-obamanomics/2/

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/comparing-reaganomics-and-obamanomics

June 17, 2012 at 10:09 p.m.

Lovetheusaorleave, please stop repeating the lie about President Obama's budget. In reality, that was a proposal by Jeff Sessions that was purported to be Obama's budget, but did not actually resemble it.

It did not originate in substance or detail from the White House, and your desire to repeat that lie shows you don't care about facts anyway.

President Obama did not in any way present the bill Democrats voted against, as they knew it was a false Republican version.

Do you really not care about the truth?

June 17, 2012 at 10:10 p.m.
moonpie said...

Looked at the cartoon then to the later posts.

It seems a cartoon is the only required catalyst to spark a fury.

June 17, 2012 at 10:14 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I don't give Obama credit for lower gas prices.

June 17, 2012 at 10:14 p.m.

Ok Happy you and your delusional friends believe what you want. Facts are there is still no budget in place, but I guess that is not true either. Wow what a damn dream world some you idiots live in, guess admitting you were wrong in voting for him is just a hard pill to swallow

June 17, 2012 at 10:15 p.m.

Rick1, that attribution to Obama of 8% unemployment is false.

Do look up the facts on that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/09/eric-cantor/Cantor-and-other-republicans-say-obama-promised-s/

You can make your complaints, but at least make somewhat honest ones.

Lovetheusaorleave, there is a budget. The one with the cuts in spending that Republicans are trying to renege on. You might also notice how none of the budgets proposed by Republicans passed either. And of all of those, only one eliminated the deficit immediately. Even most Republicans didn't vote for Toomey's budget.

Moonpie, one day Clay will post a blank image and the rest of us will fill it in. OK so maybe he'll have to draw himself drawing an empty scape with a caption...

June 17, 2012 at 10:17 p.m.
Easy123 said...

love,

Present facts or shut up. How can you call anyone delusional while you have backtracked on every point you made until you ended up on "the budget"? You are delusional. You have been called on every one of your lies until you got down to one point that you could cling to. There is no budget in place. So? There surely will be soon.

I guess admitting you are a babbling idiot is an even harder pill to swallow.

June 17, 2012 at 10:19 p.m.
alprova said...

rogerdodger wrote: "Wow I see Easy Al is still at it talking about how great Osama Obama is. What a fool"

Why yes I am, you hopeless Obama basher. I see that you still haven't backed up your pathetic claim about me. What a liar.

June 17, 2012 at 10:39 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Love,I told you stating facts to these bunch of idiots only makes them made. They can't handle the truth, never have never will. Easy you better go to bed before your mom gets mad LOL

June 17, 2012 at 10:48 p.m.

Easy there has not been one thing I have stated that is not factual! I can't help if you are to foolish to understand it. Happy no where have you nor anyone else seen me say I am a republican. Just because I think the POTUS sucks does not make me a republican. I am a proud independent that looks at facts about candidates not the lies of political parties unlike most of the idiots on here.

June 17, 2012 at 10:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

roger & love,

Neither of you have presented any evidence for anything either of you have said. I can't help it if you don't realize that you haven't backed up any of your claims.

Roger,

You better go to bed before your goat gets mad! LOL!

Stating facts to you only confounds your little brain. So badly that you believe YOU have presented factual evidence; which you have not. You can't even fathom the truth because you have your head so far up your own rectum.

June 17, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.
raygunz said...

Yep,,I was right,it's a slow day,or else a day for SLOW! LOL! I don't have to wonder where these crackers get their ideas,I've checked out several of the right-wing web sites and I've got to say they're all pushing the poison."The TRUTH don't count if it don't agree with what I want to believe" is their stock-in-trade. "Barack of Nazereth"!! OMG! HAHAHAHAHAHA

June 17, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

You mopes need to lighten up on the name calling.

June 17, 2012 at 10:57 p.m.
rick1 said...

Bulbs, the below link explains how Obama has to take responsability for the comment. Please read the link for more info.

"When your top economic advisers issue a projection about what a piece of legislation you're proposing will accomplish, it is coming directly from you and your office."

"You can't claim after the fact that you had nothing to do with it and neither should members of the media regardless of how in the tank they are for you."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/04/20/martin-bashir-flat-out-lies-segment-claiming-mitt-romney-going-hell-f#ixzz1y6s5UFMp

June 17, 2012 at 10:59 p.m.
alprova said...

Rick1 wrote: "Bulbs, the below link explains how Obama has to take responsability for the comment."

Complete opinionated hogwash. Any person, no matter who he is, is only responsible for anything that emanates from their own lips.

That "promise" has been debunked over and over. The President never promised that unemployment would stay at or below 8% if stimulus funds were appropriated.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/mar/02/eric-cantor/cantor-says-obama-promised-stimulus-would-keep-une/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/26/michele-bachmann/rep-michele-bachmann-says-white-house-promised-sti/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/13/george-will/will-obama-said-stimulus-would-cap-unemployment-8-/

June 17, 2012 at 11:27 p.m.

lovetheusaorleave, well, I don't know that I said you are, rthough if I did, it's because from my perspective you are quite Republican, only pretending to be an Independent, perhaps because it assuages your vanity, perhaps because you want us to believe you're really not partisan, and you think that'll give you more credibility. Your shameless parroting of false Republican talking points shows how many of your statements are actually non-factual, and discredits your claims to be non-Partisan. Really, calling him Osama? How foolish do you expect us to be? You think we wouldn't notice how biased your opinion is?

If you want to come across as an honest critic, you'll have to do a better job of it. At the least, your name is a typical Right-wing slogan, so...you're probably never going to make your claims of being an independent believable. You're like a character from a badly written novel, who presents themselves as an example of something, but spends most of their internal dialogue representing the author's contradictory views. Which the author probably avows is a fair representation of how such a person thinks.

rick1: Actually, your insistence on how he does have to take responsibility, when you claimed he actually SAID something, as opposed to it just being a projection from somebody in the White House...shows that he doesn't.

You want to complain the projection is wrong? Go for it. But don't misrepresent it, as you and so many many Republican Stalwarts have repeatedly and incessantly done.

raygunz, they love their religion. It's the cult of Anti-Obama. They love their truthiness and truthicality.

Jack_Dennis, you're welcome to convince the TFP staff to make it happen.

June 17, 2012 at 11:45 p.m.
degage said...

Happy the democrat senate hasn't passed a budget in over three years. The dem house didn't either but the republican house did. Dems just kicked the can down the road. Reid even refuses to bring one to a vote.

June 18, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Just because the budget passed doesn't make it good. The Republican budget cuts almost every program benefiting the poor like Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps while offering potential tax cuts to the rich. Doesn't sound very promising.

June 18, 2012 at 7:59 a.m.
degage said...

easy obamacare cuts 500 billion from medicare. That doesn' sound very promising.

June 18, 2012 at 8:05 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dégagé: Well that's different.

June 18, 2012 at 8:21 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

DON'T YOU EVER GO TO WORK EASY?? I LEAVE FOR WORK, YOU'RE ON HERE. I GET HOME FROM WORK, YOU'RE ON HERE!

You must not work and receive other people's money. No wonder you're in love with Obama. TAKE A BREAK!! YOUR TOFU IS GETTING COLD!!

June 18, 2012 at 9:10 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: **"obamacare cuts 500 billion from medicare."

Nope. That is another totally false statement. Mitt Romney told the same lie more than once.

Obamacare calls for reductions in the growth of spending over ten years, through efficiency efforts that are built into the plan. Savings are derived through delivery of medical treatment and care that prevent patient re-admissions into hospitals, one of many ways the plan projects to save money.

The actual projected spending through 2020 increases $929 billion, up from $499 billion.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/apr/04/mitt-romney/romney-obama-only-president-cut-medicare/

A projected reduction in spending is not a "cut."

June 18, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Anyway, The sea level hasn't dropped, Gitmo is still going strong, unemployment is at 8.2% (really around 11%), the world still isn't in love with us, the national debt is at $14 trillion, the poor are still poor despite billions of dollars thrown at them, the only thing solar coming from Solyndra is the photosynthesis taking place on the four foot high weeds surrounding the joint.........and on..... and on..... and on

What a wonderful president we have elected! Do you liberals REALLY want more of THAT??

June 18, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I have a smartphone. But I guess you can't grasp that "smart" concept.

And your misguided view of reality amuses me.

June 18, 2012 at 9:21 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Do some work and get off your ass! You get paid to sit on your ass and post comments all day? If that's what reality is to you, you're an abject moron.

You with a "smart" anything is an oxymoron.

June 18, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy is SO indoctrinated from his college experience, it will take a decade or so to deprogram the lad.

June 18, 2012 at 9:40 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

Your misguided view of reality amuses me.

Jack,

Your misguided view of reality amuses me.

tu,

I meant American raised. But I apologize for the mistake.

June 18, 2012 at 9:49 a.m.
Easy123 said...

tu,

I was referring to immigrants in general. This new immigrant policy helps every immigrant (legal/formerly illegal). And will draw many of those people to vote for Obama. I apologize if I was unclear.

June 18, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
Easy123 said...

You took that out of context.

I was explaining how I can post on here even when I'm not at a computer.

Thanks for trying.

June 18, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I'm sure many have family members that were able to stay in the United States due to this policy. That helps.

Direct competition isn't bad. These people will be in direct competition with every citizen. Not just other immigrants.

Idiot!

June 18, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Who said I have a "boss"?

Keep trying though.

June 18, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.

Enough with the immigrant label. They're illegal aliens. Obama has taken it upon himself to reward lawbreakers and foreign invaders. Now their reward is that they can compete for jobs with American citizens.

June 18, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
Easy123 said...

No, they aren't illegal.

They aren't lawbreakers. "Foreign invaders"? Is this WW2?

Educated workers in the workforce. Sounds good to me.

June 18, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

TOES02800 said... Do some work and get off your ass! You get paid to sit on your ass and post comments all day? If that's what reality is to you, you're an abject moron.

I do believe that is a personal attack. Half armed, but still an attack. I do wonder, toes, is this what you think when capital gains are earned? So, to you, working like a slave during certain hours, as opposed to making money without working, is the only thing keeping someone from being an "abject moron"? Do you really believe what you are saying? Or did you just get caught up with being a bully to Easy?

Easy, thank you.

Tu, You were just looking for something to be a bully about.

June 18, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.
Easy123 said...

tu,

I couldn't care less what you think. But keep trying.

June 18, 2012 at 10:52 a.m.
conservative said...

Why did the loontoonist leave this one up for a second day? Yesterday I assumed it was only to show he deemed him guilty. Today I believe it is also an effort to tear down and destroy the image of an American hero to many.

June 18, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

conservative said... Why did the loontoonist leave this one up for a second day? Yesterday I assumed it was only to show he deemed him guilty. Today I believe it is also an effort to tear down and destroy the image of an American hero to many.

So, it is ok with you to constantly tear down the President of the United States, but not a sports figure! Who knew!? That cherry picking must get tiresome.

June 18, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.

That's right, invaders. They're not supposed to be here and they came in without permission. Why should they be allowed to compete for jobs against citizens if they're not citizens? Why should they be rewarded for lawlessness?

Obama has done everything he can to come down on the side of illegal aliens, and threaten citizens since he was elected.

June 18, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
Easy123 said...

blonde,

How do you know they aren't supposed to be here? Are you supposed to be here?

They have permission now and many will likely become citizens. This isn't lawlessness. Why can't you grasp that?

How are citizens threatened?

June 18, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.
Easy123 said...

tu,

Who is actively destroying our culture and economy? Please elaborate. Then give some proof to back up your outlandish claim! Thanks.

June 18, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.
conservative said...

woman......

Obamination has a record and it's not good and worthy of criticism.

Obamination has a record of drug abuse, why doesn't the loontoonist portray him in the superman suite?

Lance Armstrong has no record of drug abuse that I know of so why judge him guilty of drug abuse?

June 18, 2012 at 11:29 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

Provide some facts.

Drug abuse? Smoking weed is drug abuse? I guess Bush was a crackhead then, right?

The charges against Armstrong are for blood doping, not drug abuse. Do some research. And there does seem to be evidence that could prove his guilt.

June 18, 2012 at 11:34 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

nooga the name caller

June 18, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy, some of us just can't "grasp" things like you can. It's a pitiful thing.

June 18, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I would guess you can't grasp a lot of things Jack. It truly is pitiful on your part.

June 18, 2012 at noon
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "Enough with the immigrant label. They're illegal aliens"

You are certainly free to call them whatever you wish, but you don't get to dictate to anyone else what they refer to them as.

They are immigrants seeking a better life for themselves and their families. You take for granted every day of your life, what these people seek a taste of.

If the situation were reversed, and it was you living in poverty that can only be imagined in that thick skull of yours, you would most likely do the same thing, that is if you were halfway honest about it.

Shame on you and your hard heart.

June 18, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

al, you southpaws are so caring.

June 18, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You liberals are the ones with the "hard heart"! Keeping minorities poor by giving them a life of welfare. And never giving them credit for having brains enough to do anything for themselves! Welfare is a poverty trap that the liberals use as a convenient "victim" group to ride to the rescue for. Keeping minorities poor victims guarantees the democrats a voting bloc.

June 18, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.

Alprova, you couldn't be more wrong. They're not immigrants. They're motives for coming here are not being questioned, at least the ones who are not criminals, but they are what they are, illegal, entering without permission, trespassers, invaders, you name it.

You do what liberals and leftists do best, blur facts and distort. You repeat terms over and over until they're taken as fact. My great, great grandparents were immigrants from Germany, they came through proper channels. They did it within the law.

You can call them whatever you want. Unlike you, I call it as it is. If they came in illegally, they're illegal immigrants. Not only are you an insufferable lefty windbag, you're also a liar.

You're motives are very, very, very transparent.

Now go kiss Obama's photo.

June 18, 2012 at 1:55 p.m.

I meant to say illegal aliens instead of illegal immigrants.

If you don't attach illegal too them, then you're either ignorant or deceitful.

Immigrants come in the right way, illegal aliens sneak in the wrong way.

June 18, 2012 at 1:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

blonde,

These children had no say in whether they came here the right or wrong way. Do you not understand that? That is a fact. Nothing is blurred or distorted.

Your great, great grandparents were trespassers, invaders, you name it.

These people are now legal. Your bitching and moaning won't change that.

Your motives are bathed in racism, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia. Now go kiss your Hitler photo.

Toes,

You say that same racist argument every time. It's getting old.

June 18, 2012 at 2:04 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

" The National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 17,000 of the agency’s nonsupervisory agents, called Monday for the resignation of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. for his role in the botched “Fast and Furious” gunrunning operation that resulted in the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent."

Clearly, these are right-wing racists.

June 18, 2012 at 2:07 p.m.

Idiocy, Easy, pure idiocy. You're trying to paint anyone who calls it the way it is as a racist. My grandparents came to New York, filled out all the paperwork they had to, went through proper channels, and did whatever it took to become citizens the proper way. They didn't wait until dark and sneak in when nobody was looking.

You and and Alprova keep trying to interject emotion into it. It's not going to work.

"heart", "children", are key words you lefties like to use. It's not going to work.

Illegal is illegal is illegal.

the president not enforcing the law does not make them anything other than what they are, people who came into the country illegally. The wrong way.

By continually trying to portray me as heartless just reveals your motives.

Typical leftist MO. Typical

June 18, 2012 at 2:15 p.m.
conservative said...

Blondie...

That "Now go kiss Obama's photo" line was funny to me. I would have also liked "Now pull that Obama photo out of your wallet and give it a wet kiss."

Maybe someone in the Obama camp will pick up on this idea and pass out wallet size photos of him at campaign rallies.

June 18, 2012 at 2:17 p.m.
Easy123 said...

They are legal. You still can't grasp that. These people will go through the proper steps as well.

You are heartless. Xenophobic and racist as well.

These are/were children. Do you not understand that as well?

Typical right wing M.O. Ignorance. Typical.

June 18, 2012 at 2:19 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy: You're too quick to assign the R word. Will be glad when you trudge thru puberty.

June 18, 2012 at 2:22 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack,

It's racist. I'll be glad when you say something worth reading. Are you the moderator here? I didn't think so.

I think your Geritol is giving you a false sense of authority.

June 18, 2012 at 2:25 p.m.

You lefties also like to throw around the R word. Doesn't work. It's simply a fact that when you come into the country illegally you're an illegal alien. Obama has rewarded them for their lawlessness in exchange for their support, or so he believes.

I'll tell you what's racist, believing all Mexican Americans are ok with lawlessness. Guess it's in their blood, huh? What makes you think all tax paying, Mexican American citizens are ok with all that? Unbelievable.

June 18, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES 02800 wrote: "You liberals are the ones with the "hard heart"! Keeping minorities poor by giving them a life of welfare."

Would you care to explain what you think would happen if Welfare was not available to those who qualify for it? The Conservative strategy would be to throw them out on the street, homeless, to starve to death.

Welfare is most certainly abused by some, but what other choices are available to a single woman who, admittedly through her own fault, has three kids to provide for and is qualified for a minimum wage job? A single person cannot house, clothe, or feed themselves on minimum wage these days.

"And never giving them credit for having brains enough to do anything for themselves! Welfare is a poverty trap that the liberals use as a convenient "victim" group to ride to the rescue for. Keeping minorities poor victims guarantees the democrats a voting bloc"

Why not face the fact that there are many people who simply are not motivated to do better for themselves? They are completely content to live in poverty. For some, it's all they know.

Those that aren't content and seek a better life, find their way out. Blaming the people who are realistic about the issue, and who fight for assisting the poor is rather pathetic.

I'm as compassionate a person as is out there, but I see both sides of the equation. Yes. There are many people who milk the system for all that they can get. There are more who are genuinely doing the best that they can. Others would like to do more for themselves, but lack the education necessary to lift them out of poverty, or are not well spoken enough and experience turned up noses at every job interview.

June 18, 2012 at 3 p.m.
Easy123 said...

This isn't lawlessness. You have yet to explain how it even could be interpreted that way.

You are xenophobic and racist.

These children had no choice in this. They were brought here by their parents. It would be unfair to not give them a chance.

June 18, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy. Is Geritol still made? Have missed it. Will seek.

June 18, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "Alprova, you couldn't be more wrong. They're not immigrants. They're motives for coming here are not being questioned, at least the ones who are not criminals, but they are what they are, illegal, entering without permission, trespassers, invaders, you name it."

That's strictly your opinion to hold and nothing more. I'm entitled to mine. It would be nice if you would leave it at that...please.

I have nothing but empathy in my heart for people so desperate, that they travel hundreds or thousands of miles, in order to improve their chances and outlook in life.

"You do what liberals and leftists do best, blur facts and distort. You repeat terms over and over until they're taken as fact. My great, great grandparents were immigrants from Germany, they came through proper channels. They did it within the law."

So what?

"You can call them whatever you want. Unlike you, I call it as it is. If they came in illegally, they're illegal immigrants. Not only are you an insufferable lefty windbag, you're also a liar."

Your opinion of me is of no consequence. If you have proof that I have ever lied in this forum, by all means, cough up the proof to it.

"You're motives are very, very, very transparent."

No Ma'am. My motives at all times are meant to emulate the Son of God. Believe whatever you wish, and may you someday wake up to what Christianity is truly about.

"Now go kiss Obama's photo."

Right after you kiss your framed photo of Hitler.

June 18, 2012 at 3:20 p.m.

Hey Easy,

Please explain how someone that is 30 years old does not have a green card or US citizenship would not know they are here illegally? You can't which proves your argument on this is a mute point. Good Day!

June 18, 2012 at 3:30 p.m.
Easy123 said...

You must not have read the policy. Go read it. Then get back to me.

June 18, 2012 at 3:48 p.m.
rogerdodger said...

Hey Love, there you go again asking common sense questions to an Atheist dummycrat. They don't know how to respond to anything like that, so stop waisting your time. When anyone speaks against their fool of a leader they come out like a pack of wolves.

June 18, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.

Why would you think I would have a picture of Hitler, Alprova. Silly man.

So, according to you I'm a follower of Adolph Hitler because I want to identify people who enter the country illegally as illegal aliens? That's not very Christian of you or very logical. It's an embarrassingly stupid conclusion.

You're not fooling me, your attempt to equate your view with being a Christian isn't working, you know darn well, and we all know, your motives are purely political and you've elevated Obama to a God like status. You feel he's about the law. Obama's motives are far, far from anything Christian and have nothing to do with empathy.

You and Easy are looking very, very foolish.

I've had my say on this. I've spent too much of a day off today on here wasting my time with leftists.

June 18, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rogerdodger and love,

Criteria #1: Came to the United States under the age of 16.

Being 30 has nothing to do with it. That is simply the cut off age. Neither does knowing you are illegal or not. You have no point. I'm sure many knew they were illegal but I bet there were many that didn't know they were illegal. Still, you have no point. If you think that is a "common sense" question, then you must have a strange view on what is "common".

Both of you are patently ignorant to facts. When people prove you wrong, you just go on to the next lie. You have both done this for 2 days now. But keep it up. I enjoy proving both of you wrong.

blonde,

Why would we have a picture of Obama. You're a follower of Hitler because you are hateful towards people that you deem "foreign". Much like Hitler identified the Jews. It's perfectly logical.

You have this anti-Obama religion going. Alprova and myself have defended the policy. Not Obama.

How do you know Obama's motives, Ms. Cleo?

You are beyond looking foolish. You look like a xenophobic, heartless racist.

Did you get mad and run away? Maybe you spent too much time on here getting called out.

June 18, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
alprova said...

LTUSAOL wrote: "Please explain how someone that is 30 years old does not have a green card or US citizenship would not know they are here illegally?"

Are you capable of focusing on a simple point of law? An immigrant who came here as a minor child is not guilty of any crime. He or she may be undocumented, but they, themselves, did nothing illegal. Their parents did.

Green cards are not issued to children. You can argue that the minute they turned 18 years of age, that they then were illegal, but then they were already on U.S. soil. What crime have they now committed?

Clearly, you believe that these people are illegal, illicite, and you don't want them within your proximity. I get it. Others, including myself, feel otherwise. I hope you get that.

You're not going to change our minds, and we are not going to change your mind.

Why not agree to disagree? Because the simple fact of the matter is that nothing you nor anyone else says on the matter, is going to change what the course the Gov't takes regarding illegal immigration.

We are nothing more than people with differing opinions. Neither of us is right or wrong, as much as one or both of us would like to believe that we are.

What happens is going to happen, no matter what. So why fret about it?

June 18, 2012 at 5:14 p.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "Why would you think I would have a picture of Hitler, Alprova."

Why do you think I have a picture of the President?

"So, according to you I'm a follower of Adolph Hitler because I want to identify people who enter the country illegally as illegal aliens?"

Nope. It is due to the underlying negative attitude you exude in calling for the exclusion of people from this country who hold no ill will towards yourself, who additionally do not threaten you at all.

"That's not very Christian of you or very logical."

I'm not about to argue semantics with you. I'm more than comfortable with my Christianity.

"It's an embarrassingly stupid conclusion."

It was your conclusion...not mine. Just remember, you came up with it all on your own. I never typed a word of it.

"You're not fooling me, your attempt to equate your view with being a Christian isn't working, you know darn well, and we all know, your motives are purely political and you've elevated Obama to a God like status."

What possible political advantage do I stand to gain? I'm not running for office. Talk about stupid conclusions...sheesh.

There is only one God. I have never seen a man on this Earth so misrepresented, or so unjustifiably attacked without good reason, than I have witnessed on a daily basis against the current President of the United States.

"You feel he's about the law. Obama's motives are far, far from anything Christian and have nothing to do with empathy."

You have absolutely no idea what that man harbors in his heart. You have absolutely no idea at all what motivates him. You're spouting conjecture, supposition, and bearing false witness about a man that you have never spoken a word with.

"You and Easy are looking very, very foolish."

I repeat again, that your opinion of me is of no consequence. It doesn't bother me one whit what you believe. Opinions will never be fact, and they are like anal orifices. Everyone has one.

June 18, 2012 at 5:59 p.m.

Blondenutnotdumb, you mention your great-great-grandparents, and assert they came here legally.

But why do you think that our immigration policy today is anything remotely like that which your ancestors went through?

Really, you're talking about policy that was likely 100 or more years ago. Can you compare it to today's in any substantial way? I doubt you even know anything about current US immigration practices, let alone history.

Amusingly, you anti-immigration policy would fit in with the Know-nothing party.

It is the historical American example. I sure hope your German ancestors weren't Catholic. They really didn't like Papists.

Tell me how you like their platform though:

Severe limits on immigration, especially from Catholic countries. Restricting political office to native-born Americans of English and/or Scottish lineage and Protestant persuasion. Mandating a wait of 21 years before an immigrant could gain citizenship. Restricting public school teacher positions to Protestants. Mandating daily Bible readings in public schools. Restricting the sale of liquor. Restricting the use of languages other than English.

Degage, actually, they do have a budget and it was one even Republicans agreed to...at the time. Then they said they had to spend trillions more on defense spending. I'm surprised they didn't try to keep the Iowa from being made a museum ship.

Pitiful attempt with the lie about Medicare cuts though. Don't you oppose wasteful spending and eliminating it? Besides, that one budget you just got done talking about? Incorporates those cuts and more. Why the faux outrage? Can't even muster a genuine complaint?

Nooga, but if we get to 300 posts, no matter the topic, Clay Bennett wins a huge prize!

Alprova, according to conservative thought, without charity and welfare, the poor and minorities would be so inspired by the challenge that they would all make an effective effort to become educated and hard-working.

It's like children, you can't coddle them, but must treat them like the Spartans did. It will really work out for the best. Notice how the rich never spoil their children.

June 18, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Hey Easy. Bulletin, bulletin, bulletin. You have NOT successfully called out anyone on here. Have you spotted any polyps up there?

June 18, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, said, "If you have proof that I have ever lied in this forum, by all means, cough up the proof to it."

When you copy and paste another persons work without giving credit to the owner of the material you stole, is not only dishonest but you are also lying by pretending that it is your own work.

June 18, 2012 at 6:25 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "When you copy and paste another persons work without giving credit to the owner of the material you stole, is not only dishonest but you are also lying by pretending that it is your own work."

I have never pretended or ever remotely claimed that anything I have ever copied and pasted was my work. The type of information that I have been guilty of copying and pasting has never involved anything that could be remotely considered proprietary or unique in nature.

All of the instances where I have copied and pasted, it involved widely published information that can be found all over the net. Chances are, that that which I copy and paste, was copied and pasted by the source I copied and pasted from.

I dare say that everyone who participates in this forum has copied and pasted material without attribution at one time or another. But because it has become such a petty issue with a couple of people, I am more careful to refrain from copying and pasting a word, at least without proper attribution if it is necessary to do so.

BBND called me a liar in regard to my not representing my true motivations regarding my stance on illegal immigrants, and that was what I was addressing. I have been consistent in my expressed opinions on that and many other issues, and my motivations are exactly as I state they are when I have offered them.

That which I have chosen to reveal about myself is 100% accurate and true. Information that I supply in my posts and represented as factual and true, is exactly that at all times, to the best of my knowledge and/or research.

I check and double check everything I post for accuracy and stand ready to disclose proof positive whenever I am challenged to do so.

In the context that I just laid claim to, I have never once presented anything in so much as one of my posts that was a known lie when I offered it.

Have I made mistakes? Of course I have, and unlike other people, I readily confess to making a mistake when faced with it.

Case in point: I posted that Newt Gingrich asked for a divorce while his first wife was in the hospital. I was not alone in believing that to be true. When faced with the proof that it was not true, I immediately retracted it and apologized for my error.

I will readily admit that copying and pasting can indeed be considered to be an act of questionable ethics, depending on whether or not the material is proprietary or unique, but without any claim at any time that I am or were the author of what is written, I still have not lied to anyone.

June 18, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.
raygunz said...

alprova said... "Opinions will never be fact, and they are like anal orifices. Everyone has one." He's lyin' Rick!!!

He knows dam-well some people ARE one!!LOL

June 18, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.

Alprova, they're not genuinely upset at the copying and pasting of trivial matters, they're just pretending to be outraged over it because it's one of the cards they like to play. The accusation is enough, regardless of the actual substance.

However, don't feel bad about the Newt Gingrich divorce, there's a lot of misinformation going around about it. Even Newt can't get the story straight.

June 18, 2012 at 8:55 p.m.
alprova said...

HWNB wrote: "Alprova, they're not genuinely upset at the copying and pasting of trivial matters, they're just pretending to be outraged over it because it's one of the cards they like to play."

I know. When people have nothing to offer to refute someone, they quite often resort to personal character attacks. I'm not bothered by such attacks in the least sense, because I know that they are grasping at straws.

"The accusation is enough, regardless of the actual substance."

Kinda like being accused of being a pedophile...

"However, don't feel bad about the Newt Gingrich divorce, there's a lot of misinformation going around about it. Even Newt can't get the story straight."

Exactly. I held that belief for years. It is still being offered around the web. The fact remains that his choice to even discuss aspects of his impending divorce while the woman was in the hospital, not to mention the fact that he did so in front of his young children, will forever remain an act of poor taste and he deserves criticism for it.

June 18, 2012 at 9:11 p.m.
Easy123 said...

"Bulletin, bulletin, bulletin. You have NOT successfully called out anyone on here. Have you spotted any polyps up there?"

Hey everyone, look! Jack tried to make a joke!

Your delusion has reached a pinnacle, Jack. You are either stupid or illiterate. Which one?

June 18, 2012 at 9:16 p.m.
fairmon said...

Alpro said.... but he hasn't done a half-bad job as President.

No doubt it has been more than half bad. That is not to suggest his opponent would have done any better, probably not.

Alpro said....

It's a shame that all you negative Nancy's and racist Ronnie's can't see past the end of your noses to look at the truth.

A budget that can't be balanced and a debt that cannot be paid is a frightening truth being denied by many. The human brain is a brilliant instrument that can ignore those most unpleasant events in a life.

Roger Clemons found innocent of all charges of using performance enhancing drugs and lying to congress. Well hell, let's get one of those athletes that make us look like physical wimps, what about Lance Armstrong.

June 18, 2012 at 9:56 p.m.

Alprova, the level of venom is a clear indicator of the lack of substance. Not to mention the preposterous nature of many of the more easily refuted ones. It'd be one thing if it were satire, that is a noble art, but when meant in earnest?

Tsk-tsk. As for Newt, there's plenty of other things he has said and done, heck his biggest enemy is himself.

Harp3339, almost clever wordplay, but the budget could be balanced and the debt easily repaid. As i recall, you're using your brain to distort the reality of the situation through a focus on irrelevent details like the undesirability to pay it off in a single year from income while mysteriously ignoring the actual wealth of this country or the fact that there is no reason to pay it off in such a way.

Roger Clemens was not charged with using performance enhancing drugs, so that wouldn't happen anyway. I honestly don't care. While baseball is certainly a major economic factor, I don't feel Congress should bother with it. And I certainly think that something better than one witness should be required for that kind of conviction.

However, if you want a conviction, try that of Schaeffer Cox. Now why isn't congress investigating that?

June 18, 2012 at 11:12 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "A budget that can't be balanced and a debt that cannot be paid is a frightening truth being denied by many. The human brain is a brilliant instrument that can ignore those most unpleasant events in a life."

As I posted last week, the debt following WWII was much higher and much more insurmountable, but the Gov't paid it down. The debt was once as high as 130% of GDP. We currently stand at around 70%. It didn't break us then, and it won't break us any time soon.

Added to two expensive wars, one of which has wound down, with one to go, this country is trying to overcome the effects of one of the most severe of recessions since the 1930's. What with downturns in the global economy, it's been very much a triple whammy and most of it was unpredictable and very unexpected.

When this nation's economy recovers, and it will with time, when people get back to work, and when revenue flowing into the Gov't picks up, then that will be the time to start tackling the debt. Any attempt to cut spending with the economy as it is now, will only set progress backwards in righting the economy. Believe it or not, deficit spending stimulates the economy and adds monetary value to the GDP. Even people who are supported by the Gov't spend money for final goods and services just like people do who earn what they have to spend.

It took twenty years for this nation to reduce the debt when it was much higher, adjusted for the value of today's dollars. It may even take longer this time around. Hyperventilating by people is fine and dandy, but it isn't helping the situation, nor bringing us any closer to solving our nation's insolvency problem.

Dick Cheney correctly stated that "Deficits don't matter." The unspoken finish and caveat to that sentence would most certainly include..."up to the point that they are totally unmanageable."

It may not seem like it to some, but we still have a long way to go before that even has a chance of occurring.

June 18, 2012 at 11:16 p.m.

Don't worry, I'm sure starvation is the pathway to prosperity.

We just need to fire more firemen, police officers and teachers.

Then the economy will turn around. That's the promise.

June 19, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
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