published Sunday, November 25th, 2012

Cease-Fire

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

Israel will never be considered a legitimate nation by those whose property was taken. Add to that, Israel's expansionist and aparthied policies and you have one nasty neighbor.

Without heavy US financial and military support, Israel would soon begin to wither in the Middle East sun. As the US grows weaker economically, Israel will look increasingly like a bad experiment in nationhood. Fifty years from now, Israel will likely only be a memory while Judaism continues to thrive throughout the world.

But when will we have that final Cease-Fire?

November 25, 2012 at 1:47 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

yeah, nucanuck. They are surrounded by some pretty swell neighbors.

November 25, 2012 at 1:51 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Jack, are those your Jack-boots that Israel uses on the necks of her neighbors?

November 25, 2012 at 3 a.m.
MTJohn said...

A lesson tat most of us learned in kindergarten is that two wrongs don't make a right. Unfortunately, we have disregarded that wisdom with our policy in the middle east and, thereby, failed in our role as an honest broker for peace.

November 25, 2012 at 6:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

Without oil money and arms from the rest of the world would there not be less capability for violence in the middle east? Oil has been and is our primary reason for being involved. Is the cease fire an opportunity to regroup and reload or is peace possible?

November 25, 2012 at 6:35 a.m.
EaTn said...

Cease fire in the Middle-East is like a chronic smoker kicking the habit--it's so easy they do it all the time. If you want to see where the region is headed read the Bible prophesies, which so far has a very good track record.

November 25, 2012 at 6:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why are there no borders, only truce lines in many areas of the middle east? Has Israel been the aggressor nation or retaliating when attacked? Is it being naive to think a legitimate democracy and peace will break out in any country in this region of tribes with very different beliefs with a commitment to impose their beliefs on others?

November 25, 2012 at 6:54 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn said...

If you want to see where the region is headed read the Bible prophesies, which so far has a very good track record.

EaTn...frighteningly accurate thus far or an uncanny understanding of human kind and the behavior to expect from them. Is the 100 year peace to be before Armagedden?

November 25, 2012 at 7:01 a.m.
conservative said...

For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession Psalm 69:35 KJV

November 25, 2012 at 7:16 a.m.
jjmez said...

nucanuck said... Israel will never be considered a legitimate nation by those whose property was taken. Add to that, Israel's expansionist and aparthied policies and you have one nasty neighbor. Without heavy US financial and military support, Israel would soon begin to wither in the Middle East sun. As the US grows weaker economically, Israel will look increasingly like a bad experiment in nationhood. Fifty years from now, Israel will likely only be a memory while Judaism continues to thrive throughout the world. But when will we have that final Cease-Fire?

"Under the Puritans, the land that came to be known as America was referred to as 'Israel', and we know what was done to the Native peoples of that Northern Continent. Then again, to drum up support for the 'southern cause', southerners often referred to the Confederacy as "fighting on the side of Israel." So what and where is this place called "Israel"? Is it really an actual place? Or some utopian ideal society when powerfuls come together in a desire to grab land away from others?*"

November 25, 2012 at 8:31 a.m.
joneses said...

Wow Clay! I am surprised your sorry ass did not blame the fighting in the middle east on the GOP.

November 25, 2012 at 8:35 a.m.
jjmez said...

EaTn said... If you want to see where the region is headed read the Bible prophesies, which so far has a very good track record.

"Or is man just reading then acting out a script, like in a poorly written stage play? Who was it that said, "The world's a stage and we're all either poor actors or pawns?" Wasn't it Rumsfeld who said something to the effect, "Why wait for Armageddon when you can make it happen?"

November 25, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.

The defense of pluralism and democracy against tribalism is arduous. It's not for the weak-kneed or simple-minded, thus the empty buckets and lack of irrigation. The secular Israeli population is in no way the "true Israel of God." Zionism is yet another empty bucket.

November 25, 2012 at 8:41 a.m.
joneses said...

I wonder why obastard went into hiding during the latest attack on Israel. He probably did not want it to appear he was supporting Israel and piss off his muslim brothers.

November 25, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.
joneses said...

It sounds like you liberals agree with Iran and think Israel should be "wiped off" the face of the earth. Obastard might help you get your way.

November 25, 2012 at 8:48 a.m.
conservative said...

And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. Genesis 17:8

November 25, 2012 at 8:52 a.m.
MTJohn said...

joneses said..."It sounds like you liberals agree with Iran and think Israel should be "wiped off" the face of the earth."

I don't think Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. However, I do think the rest of the nations should honor the promises made to the Palestinian people when those same nations agreed to establish the state of Israel. Even George Bush gave a lot of lip service to the "two state solution".

November 25, 2012 at 9:03 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - God makes His dwelling in the hearts of people and not on selected pieces of turf.

November 25, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.
conservative said...

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart Jeremiah 3:17

November 25, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
jjmez said...

conservative said... And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger,

"I like my neighbors house. It's in better shape than mine. My house could use a paint job, new roof and some landscaping. Plus, my neighbors' wife is kind of cute too. Does that mean all I have to do is pitch a tent in their yard, form myself a small army, then raid, ravish and take over his house, steal his wife for my own pleasure then claim it's in the Bible and therefore has the approval of God?"

November 25, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

nucanucky: No, they're buckets the Jews put on their kids heads whilst rockets reign down on schools.

November 25, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.
miraweb said...

Israel and Palestine together raise more questions than they answer:

Who believes that violence will help people resolve real problems?

If Israel does not want a two-state solution and Palestine does not want a two-state solution, how do they get to a two-state solution?

If there is no fair solution, what is the next best thing?

How long should the living fight the battles of the dead?

November 25, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Israel is for a two state solution on terms dictated by Israel, that serve Israel's selfish interests and without regard for the legitimate interests of the Palestinians. Arafat walked away because he couldn't deliver on it.

Israel must have secure borders. The Palestinians must have a functional state. Currently, they have neither.

November 25, 2012 at 10:50 a.m.

I think we should give the land back to the original owners.

The Dinosaurs.

November 25, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - If you are going to claim to be Christian, I'd suggest that you try living out of the New Testament. Jesus told Pilate, "My Kingdom is not of this world." We do not need Jerusalem as a prerequisite for the second coming.

November 25, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.
miraweb said...

Ehud Barak was committed to the two-state solution. Netanyahu - not so much. As long as Netanyahu remains in power, a negotiated solution is unlikely.

November 25, 2012 at 10:59 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Nooga - you describe all people, not just the Israelis and Palestinians. The Middle East is just the microcosm that serves as the continuous reminder of the worst of our human nature.

November 25, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

mira: and it was unlikely long before Netanyahu.

November 25, 2012 at 11:05 a.m.
miraweb said...

Jack - a real Texan would never say "whilst". :-)

November 25, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.
miraweb said...

Jack - granted, it has always been a difficult proposition.


(I suppose someone from Austin might say "whilst.")

November 25, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Even America's staunchest allies won't support US policy toward Israel. Our Israel support has done great harm to the larger interests of the United States and yet we persist in a policy and support that is self-destructive...and with no hope of success.

Israel is a country, not a religion or a religious cause. The US has a country in bad need of attention and it is located between Mexico and Canada. It's past time to cut the cord with Israel.

November 25, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
jesse said...

The cease fire will take place just as soon as one side kills ALL the other side! If Israel win ,peace will result! If the Muslims win then they will start killing each other on religious grounds(suni vrs. shiite etc.) when one sect wins THAT war then they will get into tribal warfare!

November 25, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: I only had a green card to TX.. Long since removed. But I did like it.

November 25, 2012 at 11:32 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

And Mira. Austin ain't Texas

November 25, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
miraweb said...

El Paso has now launched a petition to secede from Texas. I won't be too worried until Oklahoma stockpiles a few rockets.

November 25, 2012 at 11:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

I am hopeful that late this evening the wisdom here will have shared the answer to the complex middle east and South Arica turmoil so we can all retire for the eveing knowing the answer is finally known.

November 25, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

The Palastinian people are pawns being used by the tyrants of the middle east. They were nomadic herdsmen belonging to the trans jordainian kingdom. In the original charter they were given a homeland called Palistine with everything they are fighting for today given to them from the beginning but like good pawns they chose to fight with there arab brothers thinking they could wipe Isreal off the map in 1967. So they lost the west bank gaza and the siani. Over the past several decades much of that land has been returned to the now called palastinian people and eveything they are fighting for has been offered with the exception of the right of return to land they never settled on. The Ottomans lost WW1 and with it control of transjordan. The arabs lost in 67. If the arab world realy cared about the palastinians they would allow them to return to Jordan. Instead they are kept in a fence and the world blames Isreal

November 25, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
miraweb said...

There are regional issues that make the conflict worse. That said, there are many thousands of Palestinians who already live in Jordan. Jordan has managed a huge influx of refugees from the fighting with a lot of generosity, skill and grace.


Correction: The CIA World Factbook lists 1,979,580 Palestinian refugees, 105,000 Syrian refugees, and 29,286 Iraqi refugees in Jordan. Jordan's total population is 6.5 million. Jordan doesn't have a perfect record with refugees but they have done quite a lot.

November 25, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.
miraweb said...

harp - at least we are talking with each other. That is one step ahead of Netanyahu and Hamas.

November 25, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
jesse said...

I sure am glad Harp dropped by to tell us what a good job we are doing! Now if Alprova would do the same my day would be made!!

November 25, 2012 at 12:10 p.m.
Maximus said...

yall allz I bez sayin is whenz it cums to throwin down dem Israelis be dope. day gonna be goin hood on dat Irans soon. I likes me sum spielbergs. Wit dem arabs dont beez makin no utube videos bout days religion or Miss Hillary be sendin dem black burbans to yo house to drags yo dragly ass to jail. dem arabs be qwazy shootin da a k's in da air wenz da be partying. kinda likes me and my boyz in downtown Chatt. TLF be chilllin in da atl todayz falcons gonna run. boughts me some new platinum bezels. gotta bounce

November 25, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.
ricardo said...

Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one I hope some day you'll join us And the world will be as one

November 25, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

maximus: Your schtick is stale.

November 25, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

"Destroy the throne of Zion, the house of absolute evil," the song goes. "Raise the banner of victory. Be like the fire of a volcano. Repeat in the name of your Jihad: Death to Israel! With blood and fire, resist until freedom. Defeat the soldiers of aggression the enemies of humanity."

This "song", played by Hamas Radio the day after the cease-fire was announced. Nice neighbors.

November 25, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.
Maximus said...

yo jack u b a hater bro. member my boyz be trolling in downtown chatt big boyz wit big toyz. gangs bez good fo allz dem chatthope and change white folkz. shared equality and fair shots foever dog shwzmez sum luv jacks

November 25, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.
jesse said...

Jack, maximus sounds like one o them "wiggers" to me!!

November 25, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

jesse: He ain't right, for sure.

November 25, 2012 at 12:44 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

On October 5th, several prominent American Christian leaders sent a letter to Congress calling on lawmakers to "make U.S. military aid to Israel contingent upon its government's compliance with applicable US laws and policies." It’s a thoughtful letter and I believe they’re right about this:

"Dear Members of Congress:

We write to you as Christian leaders representing U.S. churches and religious organizations committed to seeking a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians. Our organizations have been deeply involved in this pursuit for decades, inspired by the call and promise of Jesus Christ who said, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” . .

. . . Through this direct experience we have witnessed the pain and suffering of Israelis as a result of Palestinian actions and of Palestinians as a result of Israeli actions. In addition to the horror and loss of life from rocket attacks from Gaza and past suicide bombings, we have witnessed the broad impact that a sense of insecurity and fear has had on Israeli society. We have also witnessed widespread Israeli human rights violations committed against Palestinians, including killing of civilians, home demolitions and forced displacement, and restrictions on Palestinian movement, among others. We recognize that each party—Israeli and Palestinian—bears responsibilities for its actions and we therefore continue to stand against all violence regardless of its source. . .

It is this experience and these commitments that lead us to write to you today to express our grave concern about the deteriorating conditions in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories which threaten to lead the region further away from the realization of a just peace.

Unfortunately, unconditional U.S. military assistance to Israel has contributed to this deterioration, sustaining the conflict and undermining the long-term security interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. This is made clear in the most recent 2011 State Department Country Report on Human Rights Practices covering Israel and the Occupied Territories1, which details widespread Israeli human rights violations committed against Palestinian civilians, many of which involve the misuse of U.S.-supplied weapons.

Accordingly, we urge an immediate investigation into possible violations by Israel of the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act and the U.S. Arms Export Control Act which respectively prohibit assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of human rights violations and limit the use of U.S. weapons2 to “internal security” or “legitimate self-defense.”3 . . .”

http://blogs.elca.org/peacenotwalls/files/2012/10/12oct5letteraboutaid.pdf

November 25, 2012 at 12:56 p.m.
ricardo said...

fo shizzle, ma nizzle

November 25, 2012 at 1:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

good letter, laura

November 25, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

The Holy Land isn't holy. Neither are the governments of Palestine and Israel. The irrational and continual US support of Israel when Israel is clearly wrong is not in the best interests of the US or peace.

Many orthodox Jews hate anyone other than themselves.

Many Arabs, Persians, and Palestinians irrationally hate Jews because they're Jews.

Many orthodox Christians believe that war in the Middle East will bring about Armageddon and the Second Coming.

That's what happens when Holy Wars, Holy Scriptures, and Holy Prophets believe their myths should be made reality.

Not too Holy to kill in God's, Allah's or Jesus' name, is it? It's hard to sing "Silent Night" over exploding bombs, death rattles, and war cries.

November 25, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

cute, darwin123. But it says nothing.

November 25, 2012 at 1:39 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

An article you southpaws should read and digest. And realize that maybe, just maybe, he has a point. http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/when-the-ends-justify-the-meanness/

November 25, 2012 at 1:40 p.m.
fairmon said...

jesse...

My approval is easy surely you don't think Alpro is going to accept any answer? He will provide it. Your seeking Alpros approval may not be realistic. So far you have the most accurate solution...a lasting cease fire will only be realized after one side kills all of the other side. For centuries they have fought with others often unsuccessfully trying to broker a peace why would anyone think it is different this time?

A stock market perspective...It may be time to take your shorts off and get ready for a nice long ride with a lot of fast up and down gyrations, if scared buy puts as insurance.

November 25, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
conservative said...

And many people shall go and say , Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem Isaiah 2:3

November 25, 2012 at 1:43 p.m.
Maximus said...

JayZ bez sayin jj jacks and jesse don bez lisnin tuz hip hop nations tuz offtens. be strugglin tooz unda stanz my lyrical poetry bez typical whitz males. white menz ova 40 be trouble wit da nations all stuck in da past itz a new day yo. to my 4 Bengazi/Libya brothers RIP duz anyone care? bet dayz parents and families did not haves a gud Thxgivin. wat da stories susan rice be fine but she be posein. blamz it on da CIA likes we did wit dem Viet Cong Charlies.............allz i knows is dem four flag draped caskets in da C130...tradegy and lying politicos to preserve re-elections bez ugly. where bez cbsabcnbccnn wit dar "investigatives' reporz. still be keepin a brother down.damnmy falcons just scored. tlf

November 25, 2012 at 1:50 p.m.
miraweb said...

Hamas Reviewing Shootings of 'Collaborators'

The killings were claimed by the armed wing of Hamas, the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades. On November 16, a man was shot dead in Gaza City after allegedly "providing guidance and information on the locations of the resistance and their rocket launchers to the Israeli occupation," a source told AFP, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Four days later, gunmen executed six "collaborators" in Gaza City's Nasser neighbourhood, witnesses told AFP. A message pinned to their bodies said the men were executed by the Qassam Brigades because they had provided "information about the capabilities of the resistance and their factions" and handed Israel information "about the movement of the fighters."

Neither Hamas nor the Qassam Brigades commented on either of the incidents.

During the operation, the Hamas-run interior ministry said it had captured an unspecified number of "suspected collaborators" and said that others had turned themselves in to the authorities. Under Palestinian law, collaboration with Israel, murder and drug trafficking are all punishable by death.

All execution orders must be approved by the Palestinian president before they can be carried out, but Hamas no longer recognises the legitimacy of Mahmud Abbas, whose four-year term ended in 2009.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/59134/World/Region/Hamas-to-probe-unlawful-executions-of-alleged-coll.aspx

November 25, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.
miraweb said...

Hamas Rebuilding Weapon Stocks

Senior Hamas official Mahmoud a-Zahar Saturday said Hamas intends to continue procuring weapons with Iran's support.

"We have no choice but to continue to bring in weapons by all possible means. We have the right to take money and weapons from Iran. They [Iran] gave us for the sake of God, no conditions attached, and I am witness to that," the Palestinian Ma'an News Agency quoted him as saying.

The British newspaper The Sunday Times reported Israeli spy satellites identified a cargo ship docked at the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas being loaded with weapons and munitions as well as Fajr 5 missiles apparently heading for Gaza. The report said Iran began preparing the shipment last week at the start of discussions for a cease-fire.

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-weapons-ship-528/

November 25, 2012 at 2:01 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Minimus... you're the only one reading your crap, nobody else. It's like litter. Just so you know.

November 25, 2012 at 2:03 p.m.
dude_abides said...

JonRoss said... "Israel is for a two state solution. It was a done deal with Arafat but then Arafat walked away from it with no explanation."

Arafat knew that with the Palestinian birthrate versus the Israeli birthrate, in a generation (or so) the Palestinians would be a majority. Then the Israelis would have to rule with an apartheid system. The west cannot back an apartheid system in Israel any more than they could in South Africa. Then came the Russians.

November 25, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis said...

"cute, darwin123. But it says nothing."

Didn't expect you to get it, JD.

For the more obtuse among you, it posits that belief in literal gods and devils, holy lands, and religious prophecies gets you the situation in the Middle East. That and all the wars of conquest and imperialism that have taken place for thousands of years for someone's god.

(Time for more quotes from the man made, poorly written, contradictory, and blood-thirty Bible and zealots of Jehovah.)

November 25, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
miraweb said...
November 25, 2012 at 2:17 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dayton123: Well that explains it! Good work man.

November 25, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.
Maximus said...

hate filled charge Big Lebowsky guess dem flag drapes coffins madz youz...........................uncomfortable. Rick Ross advises da Don b stayzin off utube. too many fedz all up in dar know what im sayin. Susan Rice gotz a fine booty yo she b runzin da black helos soon. dont fourgits dude i be da only don ............first name greatest...lazt name ever..tlf

November 25, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.
jesse said...

I once jokingly asked easy 123 if he foamed at the mouth when he typed his posts! I'm asking conservative the same thing only i ain't joking!(actually i am!)

How about it con.,you got slobber all over your keyboard? lol

November 25, 2012 at 2:31 p.m.
dude_abides said...

maxoddkrz... plexivaricum obsequentia verdanticaliph proscuittios pudenda que pudenda? w........t.........f

November 25, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.
jesse said...

What Dude said! (i think!)

BTW: That wild eyed idjit holdin the bucket in the toon?THATS Maximus, i'm pretty sure!

November 25, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.
Maximus said...

jessee be a racist. wigger, really? i betz u use dat other igger word a lot typical jessee the red neck chatt racism. Does youz haves any blacks freends? Brothas soon bez in controls of chatz wit black mayor bout times. Jessee dontz even comprehends ebonics and susan rice b fine big bootie shortie. betz when she beez tellin all dems utube lies fo Miss Hillary makes her wet.

November 25, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Our foreign policy towards Israel is dictated by fundamentalist Christian thinking more than many of us want to admit. Forty six percent of Americans believe in creationism - that human beings and the earth were created fully formed less than 10,000 years ago. Fifty two percent of Republicans and 34% of Democrats and Independents hold that view. If we have that many politicians taking the Bible literally enough to believe such nonsense, then they obviously believe other parts of the Bible regarding Israel as the Promised Land for God's "chosen people." So it stands to reason that they would be influenced enough by Biblical writing to hold Israel as something sacrosanct. It borders on lunacy, and that lunacy infects us at the highest levels, within the White House.

I have plugged this documentary before and I will do it again: "Waiting for Armageddon" (available on Netflix streaming). It reveals how many and in what ways fundamentalist Christians are actively trying to direct our foreign policy towards a favoring of Israel because they believe with all their hearts that Armageddon will take place there and will issue in the Second Coming. It is a very fair and unbiased look at some of the people who are hoping and praying for the hastening of Armageddon. The film makers never inject their points of view or even show themselves or speak during the filming. It simply gives an in-depth look at the thinking of these Bible literalists. For those who haven't seen it, it's well worth watching, no matter what your perspective.

November 25, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Don't be doggin those Palestinians. They're just misunderstood.

November 25, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.
conservative said...

The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Isaiah 2: 1-4

November 25, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
miraweb said...

I know this is may hard to believe, but the conflicts between Israel and its Arab neighbors just may not have very much to do with the beliefs of American Christians. I know this may be hard to hear - but most of the world is just not that interested in you.

American views on the Bible do color a certain flavor of anti-semitism.

There are people in America who believe that 100% U.S. support for Israel is based on religious hopes for the second-coming of Jesus.

Some folks believe that if the religious element were removed, there would be no support for Israel from the U.S.

Iran would then arm the Arab states. The Israelis would face a second genocide. Problem solved.

Many Americans support Israel who do not believe in Jesus or the Bible. Many Jewish-Americans support Israel because of common cultural heritage.

There are realities from 60 years ago that we often forget now. The Jews were not safe in Europe. There was no place there that Jews could defend their lives.

In 1945, the view was that to stay in Europe was to die.

Europe did not view Jews as European. The Arabs of the Middle East did not welcome them as neighbors though the historical ties of Jewish people to that region are beyond doubt.

The importance of Israel is that it is a place where Jews can defend themselves.

There is a strong case that the Palestinians deserve compensation. What everyone seems to forget is it was the four major powers after WWII who took the land - not the Israelis.

By rights - the bulk of compensation due the Palestinians is owed by the United States and the United Kingdom. That said, I don't think the Palestinians have the right to launch 10,000 rockets at Chattanooga (or London) to open negotiations. That seems to be exactly what Hamas did to Tel Aviv last week.

However(and possibly for the first time) there were no rockets launched from the West Bank.

The question remains - how long should the living fight the wars of the dead?

November 25, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
conservative said...

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying , Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:Genesis 15:18

November 25, 2012 at 5:22 p.m.
Lr103 said...

Jack_Dennis said... An article you southpaws should read and digest. And realize that maybe, just maybe, he has a point. http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/when-the-ends-justify-the-meanness/

Little JackieD, guess you didn't get the update on that Rice verses GOP did you?

According AP news, "WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican opposition to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice as the next secretary of state began to crack Sunday as Sen. John McCain said she was "not the problem" in the White House's handling of the Sept. 11 attack in Libya and suggested he could be persuaded to swing behind her possible nomination."

November 25, 2012 at 5:31 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - I'm still waiting for you to post the passage about the covenant that the LORD made with Ishmael.

November 25, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Miraweb, you're right, there is certainly more to it than just an under-current of Christian fundamentalism, and if that element were completely removed from the picture, U.S. foreign policy might still favor Israel. But as it is, I think it's hard to deny that that fundamentalism is very significant. My god, that same fundamentalism is responsible for so much of the population rejecting science and for believing that we are a nation "blessed by God," so it is only reasonable to assume that many of our politicians' view of Israel, whether consciously or sub-consciously, might be colored by their fundamentalist beliefs.

November 25, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.
miraweb said...

Interestingly, there was progress in another old European crisis. Spain this week announced that the descendents of Spanish Jews (Sephardim) who were exiled from the country on the same day Christopher Columbus began to sail the ocean blue have won their own right of return.

Spain is allowing Sephardic Jews to claim Spanish citizenship after a shortened two year residency.

It only took 520 years to get there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/23/world/europe/spain-citizenship-process-eased-for-sephardic-jews.html

November 25, 2012 at 5:51 p.m.
miraweb said...

Cultural beliefs (and among them religious tenets) do color how we see the world. That is not always a bad thing. Beauty, symbolism, and a new way of looking at the world can add a lot to life.

Where I become concerned is when folks become certain they can not be wrong.

Even in religion infallibility is a very limited gift.

The Pope just wrote a history of Jesus but he specifically signed it with his secular name - indicating that this book is simply one man's studied opinion - and he could be wrong about some things.

November 25, 2012 at 5:54 p.m.
conservative said...

“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts…” Zechariah 14:16

November 25, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Beauty, symbolism, and a new way of looking at the world can add a lot to life."

Agreed. Trouble is, religion does not offer a "new way of looking at life." Au contraire, it offers only the same ol' same ol'. And too much of the same ol' same ol' is destructive, limiting, and divisive. Religion that looks only backward for its meaning or forward for "salvation" can never come to terms with the present, where true beauty lies. Religion only will have true meaning and offer real enlightenment if/when it throws off its shackles of worn-out symbolism and stale ritual and celebrates life and truth for what is - an acknowledgement of the beauty of the moment, here and now, and the unity of all living things.

November 25, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

I'm waiting for conservative, tu, and the other religious zealots for Israel to join the IDF.

"Kill a heathen for Christ!"

November 25, 2012 at 6:37 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Little Lr103: And you post has what to do with the article?

November 25, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
Lr103 said...

Jack_Dennis said... Little Lr103: And you post has what to do with the article?

little jackieD don't you read your own links before posting them? The fact that the GOP and their supporters are doing all they can to now distance themselves from the Benghazi attack after trying to use it as leverage and score political points while the rest of you are still holding on for dear life. From your own link they're already trying to throw in a just in case scenario.

November 25, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Mira....thanks for the Clinton video. Arafat did not want the deal because he did not want to attempt at governing, he wanted to keep playing the role of victim. I don't think he was capable of governing and he knew it. It's easier to keep blaming someone else for your plight than doing something about it yourself. We see that with some factions in our country today.

November 25, 2012 at 8:02 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

little Lr103: Nothing tackier than a guy changing his screen name. Gutless.

November 25, 2012 at 9:41 p.m.
miraweb said...

Rickaroo wrote - celebrates life and truth for what is - an acknowledgement of the beauty of the moment, here and now, and the unity of all living things.

Well said. There are many traditions that have other concerns than just the seating arrangements in heaven or hell.

As I get older I feel a more tender pity due to the vast sorrows of the world and the exquisite joys I witness that have little to do with bank accounts or titles.

It would be sad to miss a glorious journey by spending all of our time fretting about the next stop. We all get there soon enough. We live 30,000 days (give or take) and die on only one.

If there is not another world - the majority of us will never even know when or how we died.

November 25, 2012 at 10:18 p.m.
miraweb said...

patriot - it is a remarkable look into history. There were real risks to both Ehud Barak and Yasir Arafat if they made the deal.

Barak had the courage to take the risk.

Arafat did not.

November 25, 2012 at 10:19 p.m.
miraweb said...

Hamas Interview with the LA Times


You can see why negotiations with Hamas can be difficult


Isn't it reckless to fire rockets at Jerusalem? What if you hit a mosque or killed Palestinians?

Look, no, maybe some missile went the wrong way, but it wasn't something specific. It was just one missile. They didn't do it again.

No, actually, it was three rockets on two separate days, all landing south of the city.

I don't know. I'm not a military analyst. But I think maybe people were trying to target or hit different places to send the message that none of Israel's cities are safe. Because of that maybe we will see a longer period of quiet this time. We have the indirect negotiations with Israel, through the Egyptians, going on now to negotiate the rules of the agreement.


How long will it take to rebuild the damaged buildings and infrastructure, and who's going to pay for it?

We think the damage is about $1 billion. We have a plan now to give shelter and money for people. More than 200 homes were damaged.

Ninety percent of the security centers were destroyed. Three or four of the government buildings were destroyed. Many countries, Arab and non-Arab, and organizations have told us they are ready to help with the rebuilding . . . We will stop anyone who is working against the international consensus. It's not allowed for anyone to break this understanding.


Until earlier this year, Hamas' position for nearly four years was that the time was not ripe for armed resistance. What changed your mind?

Armed resistance is part of the Hamas strategy. There is no other solution. But Hamas needs to put a political umbrella over the armed resistance.


Just last week saw public executions of collaborators in the streets.

This is not acceptable. We will try to make a special government committee to look into this. Most people are against this. Executions should not be done outside the law.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-hamas-rebuild-qa-20121126,0,6919116.story

November 25, 2012 at 11:13 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

tu_quoque said...

"In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”

Hitler said the same thing about the Poles, Jews, Roma . . . The Turks said that about the Armenians. The US said that about the Indians. The Communists said the same thing about the Ukrainians and Cossacks. The Japanese said it about the Koreans. The Red Chinese said that about the Tibetans. The Christians said that about the Jews. The Catholics said that about the Jews, Aztecs, and Incas. The Hutus said that about the Tutsis. The Serbs said that about the Muslims. The Muslims said that about the Christians. The Israelites said that about everyone else in the Old Testament.

Great quote, tu. You certainly cleared that up.

November 25, 2012 at 11:19 p.m.
dude_abides said...

LOL

November 25, 2012 at 11:33 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb...thanks for posting the interview. Help me understand why America is so involved in that region? Where is the U.N. regarding this war? When through out history has there not been at two of these nations fighting or getting ready to fight? Cut off all oil trade, weapons and money and let them throw rocks at each other except Iran and Israel who can have at it.

November 25, 2012 at 11:49 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dayton123: I think Tu_ just tore you a new orifice.

November 26, 2012 at 1:01 a.m.
GratefulDawg said...

Peace in the Middle East; It has a nice ring to it, if you're into all that Kumbaya stuff, but there is no money in it. Conflict, oil, and arms...Sweet nectar. We have an insatiable need for oil and a vested interest in protecting the oil companies investments in the region. We buy their oil, they use a large percentage of that income on weaponry, much of it made right here in the USA, to arm themselves for the conflict-of-the-day. Also, the fact that OPEC prices oil in dollars forces most every nation in the world to stockpile our currency in their reserves, or in a Mason jar under Funkenwagnel's porch. The reserves held by other nations keeps inflation here on the homefront down and allows us the opportunity to beat the hell out of each other on Black Friday for low priced televisions. In my opinion, if we do bomb Iran into oblivion it will be because Ahmadinejad quit bluffing and conviced OPEC to switch to the Euro. That is when the fecal matter hits the fan. We will be told it was because he was enriching uranium thus posing a threat to our safety and well-being. Every war needs a good cover story.

In summation, sometimes I ramble a bit, divide and conquer is the real strategy as that is where the profits are. The peace movement makes us feel better about ourselves as we fan the flames, but you only need to follow the money.

November 26, 2012 at 1:03 a.m.
fairmon said...

Bombs are good for the economy as are all consumables when more have to be manufactured, mined, farmed or fished for. The problem is too much of what we consume is not the product of American workers. Why is our economy weak? We are primarily a services economy that does little more than move money around as the government grafts (taxes) off what they consider their share as it moves around. Services with their minimal consumption in providing a service often consume imported products. Services are important and needed but they create no wealth although owners and managers may accumulate significant personal wealth.

The IRS releases data showing the average 2010 taxes paid by those with incomes of:

o $30,000 and less negative due to earned income credits.

o $30-50,000 averaged paying 4.8% income tax.

o $50-100,000 7.7%

o Incomes of $1-1.5 million or more paid an average of 20.4%%

o $1.5-2 million paid 25.1%.

The average is below the published rate because deductions enable some to avoid paying the published rate? Deductions are tools of of government manipulation amounting to welfare. Deductions, credits and other tax avoidance or reductions is how government shows favor, selects winners and losers.

I don't care if those with incomes above $250,000 have to pay more but I wouldn't try to defend it as fair.

November 26, 2012 at 6:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

Market futures are indicating it would be wise to keep your shorts on today.

November 26, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

White House silent as Egypt’s president grabs power, moves toward Shariah Islamic law

Maybe the U.S. should send them a few more billions.

November 26, 2012 at 9:01 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

tu_quoque said...

"In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”

I'll type r e a l s l o w so Tu and JD can get this.

The message as presented by that quote is meaningless as one group paints itself as civilized and the other as savages to be destroyed. It's propaganda that always promotes the non-humanity of your enemy, regardless of the side you're on.

Sorry you can't see beyond your literal noses. It must be tough living in your head with myopia and limited sight range.

Abstract thinking is not your strong suit, is it?

November 26, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Maybe not, darwin123. But I don't resort to changing screen names like many of you yoots do. You need to finish out your second year at the Juco; then get back to me.

November 26, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
jesse said...

Anyone who doesn't think Muslims are savages ain't been payin attn!

Actually all true believers are kinda savage to some degree!

November 26, 2012 at 9:23 a.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "White House silent as Egypt’s president grabs power, moves toward Shariah Islamic law"

What do you or anyone else expect the White House to do about what is happening in Egypt?

Do you expect the President to fly Air Force One to Cairo, then march up to Mohamed Morsi, put a finger in his face and tell him to stop?

Egypt is a sovereign nation, and needs not nor welcomes interference by anyone, including the President of the United States.

Do you even understand why Morsi halted the actions of the courts?

Many Mubarack loyalists were hastily making changes to the nation's constitution in an effort to dissolve the elected body of lower Parliament and had their eye on the constitutional assembly and upper parliament as well, in an effort to overturn the power shift with that nation's last election.

Imagine if you will, the Republicans in the House conspiring with Conservative judges throughout the nation to rewrite the U.S. Constitution to limit voting powers of all Democrats.

CBS posted an article an hour ago, outlining that a settlement to the dispute is imminent.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57554011/egypt-justice-minister-says-solution-to-crisis-over-morsi-power-grab-imminent/

"Maybe the U.S. should send them a few more billions."

Maybe you should try to refrain from armchair quarterbacking on the issue of foreign relations, and leave those decisions to the experts.

November 26, 2012 at 9:29 a.m.
conservative said...

Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, 2 Samuel 7:10

November 26, 2012 at 9:38 a.m.
shen said...

conservative said... Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, 2 Samuel 7:10

Is that an extension of Samuel 1? Where God ordered King Saul to go attack the Amalekites? Spare no one. Not men, women, children, babies, oxen and other livestock. But God was much displeased with King Saul for not fully carrying out his orders. After all, didn' Saul spare the King of the Amalekites and kept all the choicer meats for himself? Remember: The Rwandan genocide carried out by the Huti against the Tutsi people were taking from the pages of Samuel 1 and the story of King Saul who committed genocide against the Amalekites.

November 26, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

conservative said...

"Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, 2 Samuel 7:10"

Seems that a loving Jehovah was on vacation from 1932-1945 when "His people" needed help. Maybe they didn't get the message that God had taken a powder.

November 26, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.
Maximus said...

On and on on this Hamas/Jews turf war. Entire Muslim world filled with young males with no future other than to die for Allah and get all up in them 70 virgins. Islam just another form of obama socialism. The ruling class, i.e. the Mullahs and in Saudi Arabia the royalty live in relative luxury while the masses adhere to sharia law and live in dirt. Average income for the middle class in Egypt for instance is about 6K while unemployment rate is over 25%. Islamic countries filled with young 20 something males with nothing to do but die is a problem. As with obama, the ruling class continues to thrive and grow while the little people suffer. Suffering in the U.S. under obama is settling for low expectations and government relief while obama leaves for the upscale golf course you will never play.

November 26, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO, you should never invoke the term "arm-chair quarterbacking" as this is your stock n trade. Pathetic, wordy one. You should consider that this administration has no clue on foreign policy. The National Security Advisors aren't doing The Organizer any good either. The entire mid-east has become an even bigger tinder-box under The Egomaniac in the White-House.

November 26, 2012 at 11:40 a.m.
miraweb said...

Hey Francis, welcome back. Book now opening on how long our dear boy can keep this moniker.

November 26, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

changing names is cowardly

November 26, 2012 at 12:18 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

From Daily Kos Some left-wingers don’t beat around the bush. Take this Daily Kos blog post, titled “The REAL Pro-Life Movement: Murderers, Rapists, Incest-Enablers, Pedophiles, and Liars.” The blogger named “Bad Kitties” began: “The ‘pro-life’ movement is absolutely anything BUT ‘pro-life.’ This hypocritical and misleading nomenclature should be discontinued immediately. ‘Anti-choice’ is also far too tame.” They’re slut-shaming slimebuckets:

I'm sure most of the lefties on here will condemn this, yes?

November 26, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.
miraweb said...

I also condemn beating puppies and swearing in front of small children.

What's your point?

November 26, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

My point is that you lefties NEVER condemn garbage put out by the left. I've seen multiple traditionalists on here condemn weird shiz from the right. But not from the left. Clear?

November 26, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

JD, what's to condemn?? I give that comment a resounding AMEN! When truth is spoken it should be spoken loud and clear. To call the anti-abortion goon squad "pro-life" is a sick joke. Pro-fetus, pro-embryo, pro-zygote, yes...but pro-life? Ha! Once the little bugger pops out of the womb, it's survival of the fittest, as far as you "pro-lifers" are concerned. If the wee tyke isn't born into wealth and the mother is unwed, uneducated, and unable to provide for the little one, then it automatically becomes a "taker" in your eyes and not worth spitting on. You just say,"Tough luck, kid. What'd ya expect - a nanny state to take care of ya? It's a dog-eat-dog world, this ain't no socialistic Europe, this is Amurika the land o' the free. Now, be a man, put yer boots on, pull yerself up, and go get rich or die."

November 26, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.
miraweb said...

As this (and most other open forums) demonstrate - any fool can write anything on the internet.

I am far less worried about that than the parade of clowns that we saw at the Republican debates. The party leadership really shouldn't be doubling-down on "crazier than thou" when they present themselves to the nation.

As least not if they want to win elections.

Nutcases on the internets? Who knew.

November 26, 2012 at 2 p.m.
miraweb said...

Case in point.

November 26, 2012 at 2:17 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

T_Q, I stopped wasting my time reading your long-winded copy/pastings a long time ago. At least this little barb from you is short and sweet and comes straight from the horse's mouth. But c'mon..."YOU ARE A MORON?" Wow...how clever and original. Never heard that one before. And "LMaO?" Do you ever NOT laugh your ass off? You and JD should get together. With his BWAHAHAHAHs and your LMaOs, you and he could have a good ol' time.

November 26, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.
Leaf said...

Add Maximus to the list of idiots to skip over. Check.

November 26, 2012 at 2:29 p.m.
ibshame said...

"Rickaroo said... T_Q, I stopped wasting my time reading your long-winded copy/pastings a long time ago."

Not many(if any) do bother to read it's postings but it just keeps right on. 99.99% of the time it's just "sound and fury signifying NOTHING." LOL.

November 26, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

From Pravda.ru

"The Communists have won in America with Obama but failed miserably in Russia with Zyuganov who only received 17% of the vote."

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-11-2012/122849-obama_soviet_mistake-0/

November 26, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
miraweb said...

I have been skipping that junk for months.

November 26, 2012 at 2:52 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Obama 'drone-warfare rulebook' condemned by human rights groups

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/25/obama-drone-warfare-rulebook0/

"intensity of the backlash will take generations to overcome".

November 26, 2012 at 3 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP - your link is broken. Here is the corrected version:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/25/obama-drone-warfare-rulebook

Drones have been flying since Vietnam. They did not have serious offensive capabilities until 2001. I don't know if even I count Code Pink as a serious human rights group, but there are legitimate issues about drone-launched assassinations.

A missile launched from a drone seems creepier than one launched from a ship, though the accuracy and results may not be all that different.

We do need a serious discussion when is it OK to kill 100 men and when is (or is not) OK to kill one. When enemies don't wear uniforms it is a much tougher call.

Wars without rules are very dangerous things.

November 26, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.
Leaf said...

People say that violence never solves anything. But that's not really true. All civilizations on earth were created by one tribe subjugating another. To overly simplify things, maybe there are two paths to lasting peace. Negotiaion and assimilation, or conquest and assimilation.

As a completely unrealistic thought experiment, what if our national policy on warfare was either no war, or total wars of conquest? It would be a pretty big deal to decide to go to war, because it would take a few generations to completely subjugate the populace and indoctrinate them with your culture. Then you'd be stuck with them. It worked for the Romans.

We could, for instance, completely conquer Afghanistan, put most of the young men to the sword, enslave about 25% of the population, and quadruple our miltary presence. Afganistan could achieve territory status in 50 years if they behaved and provided enough tribute, and statehood in another 50 or so. Might as well do Israel and Iran while we're at it. There. Problem solved.

November 26, 2012 at 3:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ricky: About what I'd expect outta you. Thanks for telling be what I believe. You one-sided idjit. Utterly amazing how narrow minded you broad-minded leftists are. Bwahahahaha, little ricky.

November 26, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said to jack_....

Maybe you should try to refrain from armchair quarterbacking on the issue of foreign relations, and leave those decisions to the experts.

Alpro I agree, where would find such expert? Yep, we need an active expert QB, one that will at least call a play or time out.

November 26, 2012 at 4:06 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"The last resort is a military action," Olmert told "CNN International's Amanpour" in an interview that was shot Sunday and aired Monday. "And I prefer that it would be an American action -- supported by the international community -- if all the other efforts would fail."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/30/world/meast/israel-iran-us/index.html

Of course the militant Israelis want America to led the attack on Iran. Spend US blood and treasure.

Now the Republican Senators and other Republicans are saying tax increases are likely. Of course they are. Republicans in Congress want to keep their good times going.

So much for peaceful Israelis and honest and trustworthy Republican Senators and Representatives.

Who's volunteering to led the bombing attacks on Iran? Tu, JD, littlejohnnyrossy, Conservative?

Who's going to denounce their Republican idols who have softened their stand on Susan Rice and renounced their 'No Tax" pledge?

Maybe Conservative can toss Bible quotes at the Iranians. That will scare them!

November 26, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

alpro also lectured Jack_ that...

Egypt is a sovereign nation, and needs not nor welcomes interference by anyone, including the President of the United States.

alpro I again agree. Did you see where that darn Hilary ran over there and met with their president, trying to interfere no doubt. President Obama is busy but he may need to restrain her a little.

Do you think our billions in aid to Egypt a carry over from Carter's era is an affront to their sovereignty? Could it be the reason so many of them don't like us? I wonder if they think we are rich and they, like Americans, don't like rich people.

I am so glad to know those countries do not need or want our help, in fact objecting to our interfering in the sovereignty of their country, their right to govern their self. Are you sure we will not act like a drunk in a bar that attacks another drunk because the other drunk may start trouble.

November 26, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
fairmon said...

leaf...your 3:27 pm post is certainly out of the box thinking. Now back in the box please before it catches on...lol

November 26, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"We could, for instance, completely conquer Afghanistan, put most of the young men to the sword, enslave about 25% of the population, and quadruple our military presence. Afghanistan could achieve territory status in 50 years if they behaved and provided enough tribute, and statehood in another 50 or so. Might as well do Israel and Iran while we're at it. There. Problem solved. --Leaf"

Easy there Leaf, you keep using that kind of rhetoric and you're gonna get John Bolton all worked up.

November 26, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

What a bunch of pathetic, pathological, lying losers on the forum. You lefties have become what you always despised. Narrow minded, vicious, lying, myopic, hypocrites. Almost funny, if not so disturbing.

November 26, 2012 at 5:31 p.m.
ricardo said...

Pathetic? What's more pathetic than a couple of internet trolls who cannot even keep a Muslim, Kenyan born man from getting re-elected as President of the United States. LMFAO. What else are you good at?

November 26, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
ricardo said...

Grover Norquist's slow death march toward irrelevance:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324469304578143260125631502.html

November 26, 2012 at 7:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ricky: troll = someone that disagrees with you, no?

November 26, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
ricardo said...

troll: n. One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

November 26, 2012 at 7:20 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "ALPO, you should never invoke the term "arm-chair quarterbacking" as this is your stock n trade."

Is that so? I'm sure you will be able to supply examples then...

"Pathetic, wordy one."

I've told you many times that I could not care less what you think about a thing I write. It's YOUR problem.

"You should consider that this administration has no clue on foreign policy. The National Security Advisors aren't doing The Organizer any good either."

Totally baseless.

"The entire mid-east has become an even bigger tinder-box under The Egomaniac in the White-House."

The Middle East has always been unstable. I applaud our President for not rushing in to attempt to interfere in the affairs of other nations. God knows that the last thing this nation needs is another excursion in nation building in light of our own issues that need attending to, and he's already off to a very good start, following his reelection.

It's their problem. Let them work it out.

November 26, 2012 at 7:34 p.m.
conservative said...

And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.Ezekiel 37:21-22

November 26, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennnis wrote: "I'm sure most of the lefties on here will condemn this, yes?"

Absolutely not. Probably unlike yourself, I read every word of that opinion piece and I agree with it 100%.

November 26, 2012 at 7:41 p.m.
alprova said...

miraweb wrote: "Case in point."

Indeed...(sigh)

November 26, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.
ricardo said...

Tom Ricks tells it like it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhp9A43aeKM

November 26, 2012 at 7:44 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Alpro I agree, where would find such expert?"

In Washington D.C.

"Yep, we need an active expert QB, one that will at least call a play or time out."

Huh?

November 26, 2012 at 7:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "alpro I again agree. Did you see where that darn Hilary ran over there and met with their president, trying to interfere no doubt. President Obama is busy but he may need to restrain her a little."

Hillary went over there to work for a common goal, which was to seek a cease fire and to bring both sides to the table. I don't see her going over there as interfering at all.

"Do you think our billions in aid to Egypt a carry over from Carter's era is an affront to their sovereignty?"

No.

"Could it be the reason so many of them don't like us?"

No. I think a better example as to why any Egyptian might hold a modicum of animosity towards Americans can be found in that stupid anti-Muslim video that sparked protests on 9/11.

"I wonder if they think we are rich and they, like Americans, don't like rich people."

That's a very broad, generalized statement that holds not an ounce of water. I can't speak for the average Egyptian, but any assertion that there are Americans who hate rich people is rather ignorant.

I do have a problem with someone who is free to prosper heartily in this nation, who then finds every reason under the sun to refuse to give something back in the form of taxes.

"I am so glad to know those countries do not need or want our help, in fact objecting to our interfering in the sovereignty of their country, their right to govern their self."

The United States has a nose problem and it has had for many years now. It's time for the rest of the world to solve its own problems and for our leaders to mind their own business. It's long past time for us to do a little nation building right here on our own soil.

November 26, 2012 at 8:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "What a bunch of pathetic, pathological, lying losers on the forum. You lefties have become what you always despised. Narrow minded, vicious, lying, myopic, hypocrites. Almost funny, if not so disturbing."

Didn't you once or twice attempt to pass yourself off as a fence sitter? Yeah...uh huh...sure.

You offer all the above as if anyone gives two hoots what Jack_Dennis believes or thinks.

What's truly disturbing is your lack oin recognizing your own idiocy.

November 26, 2012 at 8:08 p.m.
conservative said...

And many nations shall come , and say , Come , and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4:2

November 26, 2012 at 8:32 p.m.

No ceasefire here.

November 26, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Has Conservative been handling snakes again? Drinking strychnine? Writhing on the floor, speaking in tongues?

I'm sure the Iranians are about to surrender to Gawd's appointed one.

"Yea, His words are strong as his breath. Let no man put asunder His prophet's great love for himself, even though he be nuttier than a PayDay candy Bar.

1st Fallopians Chapter 1 v. 3-5

November 26, 2012 at 9:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

alpro responds...

That's a very broad, generalized statement that holds not an ounce of water. I can't speak for the average Egyptian, but any assertion that there are Americans who hate rich people is rather ignorant

I do have a problem with someone who is free to prosper heartily in this nation, who then finds every reason under the sun to refuse to give something back in the form of taxes.

What reason is used to reduce the average taxes paid to around 20% up to 25% that is not legally provided by our upstanding congress?

Is it greed to want to keep as much as possible that is mine before paying more than anyone else for the same poor governing or managing that we all get or, is it greed on the part of those that want more of mine for their own benefit? To say there are not Americans Who hate and envy the rich is the ignorant opinion. Those participating in the OWS protest didn't appear to be showing their love for the successful.

November 26, 2012 at 11:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

"alpro I again agree. Did you see where that darn Hilary ran over there and met with their president, trying to interfere no doubt. President Obama is busy but he may need to restrain her a little."

alpro's response...

Hillary went over there to work for a common goal, which was to seek a cease fire and to bring both sides to the table. I don't see her going over there as interfering at all.

The common goal of who? If her or any other American being there and using money to persaude them or assist them in behaving in a certain way is not interfering then you must think military intervention is the only thing considered interfering. That being the case we have different views of what interfering in another countries affairs is.

November 26, 2012 at 11:41 p.m.
fairmon said...

"Do you think our billions in aid to Egypt a carry over from Carter's era is an affront to their sovereignty?"

No.

alpro...the foreign aid to Egypt has strings attached to it just like states that sell their soul and give up sovereignty to get a grant.

November 26, 2012 at 11:50 p.m.
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