published Tuesday, October 30th, 2012

The Map

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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miraweb said...

Amen, brother! Sing it loud!

Much thanks to our traveling linemen. Our power was only out 7 hours vs 4 days with Irene. You Rock!

October 30, 2012 at 12:04 a.m.
miraweb said...

Didja miss me? :-)

October 30, 2012 at 12:05 a.m.
alprova said...

Gald to see that you're okay miraweb. I've been watching coverage all day. Hope you continue to keep your power...

October 30, 2012 at 12:35 a.m.
miraweb said...

Thanks. Me too.

October 30, 2012 at 12:41 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

glad you're safe, Mira

October 30, 2012 at 12:59 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb please be safe, don't hesitate to evacuate. May be a good time to visit Tennessee.

October 30, 2012 at 5:44 a.m.
fairmon said...

FEMA has been as much a disaster as any disaster where states look to them for assistance. It is another Bush and congress unfunded initiative. Two wars, a prescription drug plan and FEMA were all implemented without additional funding not to mention the failure to address the problem with medicare. Social security is still solvent and will be for another decade so expecting congress to do anything before SS is a crisis is wishful thinking. Most states have neglected their responsibility to plan for and handle such events. The federal role should be doing only those things states could not possibly do which is not a great deal if the states have properly staffed, well trained and equipped national guard units that the federal government doesn't devastate calling them to active duty.

Allow the "temporary" tax rates to expire, eliminate deductions, increase the upper bracket rates, employing millions more with an annual income of $62,000 or more with reduced spending will be essential to prevent the U.S. from being like Greece and other European countries. Pay now or pay much more later is not just a slogan. Annual deficits and a growing debt mask the pending problem with people not feeling the pain of their greed and their false benevolence.

October 30, 2012 at 6:17 a.m.
EaTn said...

Technology and increased populations has made us more interdependent as a country. What type of antiquated politician would dream of reversing history to put duplicate burdens like disaster relief on state governments? A strong central government is essential for many functions.

October 30, 2012 at 7:05 a.m.
patriot1 said...

The oceans are rising!!! Just another promise Obama has NOT kept.

October 30, 2012 at 7:21 a.m.
fairmon said...

EaTn said...

A strong central government is essential for many functions.

very few actually. The size alone makes it unmagageable, ineffecient and wasteful. Not to mention being the greatest enabler of dependency in history. 50 cells of creativity and innovation will yield the best practice much better than one bloated, cumbersom self sering entity.

October 30, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I think the President should act immediately to double the electoral votes of the hardest hit areas as part of the federal assistance program being put in place. Those votes could be harvested from several southern states. Thank you and goodnight.

October 30, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.
eeeeeek said...

Obama promised no more storms.. butthole broke another promise!

Poe's Law

October 30, 2012 at 7:56 a.m.
EaTn said...

harp3339 said..."50 cells of creativity and innovation will yield the best practice much better than one bloated, cumbersom self sering entity"

Since when has state governments become less politically bureucratic than the national government? 50 worst practices of a particular function is not better than one.

October 30, 2012 at 8:26 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

EaTn asks: “What type of antiquated politician would dream of reversing history to put duplicate burdens like disaster relief on state governments?”

Well, EaTn, in some cases I think problem is due to a politician’s outdated thinking, but in other cases I think the problem reflects other things such as the politician’s lack of common sense, lack of broad knowledge and experience, or a thinking style that is limited in scope - the type of politician who might urge a group of economically disadvantaged youths to borrow money from their parents so they can go to college.

October 30, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
joneses said...

Bill Clinton was disbarred from practicing law in Arkansas and was also disbarred from practicing law in front of the Supreme Court over the Lewinski incident. He also paid a $25,000.00 fine over the Lewinski incident and an $850,000.00 settlement over the Lewinski incident. He was fined $90,000 for giving false testimony in the Paula Jones case.

So Bill Clinton, a disbarred lawyer, a President who was fined for lying under oath, asks the American people to believe him when he says the best thing for the Country is 4 more years of Obama.

And you liberals show your hypocrisy by giving Clinton a pass but attacking Scott Desjarlais.

Just wanted to make sure I had it right....!

October 30, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: "50 cells of creativity and innovation will yield the best practice much better than one bloated, cumbersom self sering entity."

So who will be paying for your proposed "50 cells of creativity and innovation," Harp3339?

October 30, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova, I want to answer all of your later comments. But I feel you will not accept what I have to say for several reasons. The first reason is because you are hostile to to God. You are hostile to the word of God. You even claim we don't have the word of God. You don't know anything about the word of God. You rely on the words of atheists about God instead of the word of God. That video is a good example. One wouldn't go to a dentist to learn how to be a mechanic. It is truly the ignorant leading the ignorant, the blind leading the blind.

You may not be a professing atheist but you certainly don't believe in the God of the Bible, the one and only true God. If you have a god it is a philosophical god, a god of your own invention or making.

October 30, 2012 at 9:18 a.m.
miraweb said...

A pretty big blow but we're all right. The communities will be assessing for the next few days. Thanks, everyone for the concern and kind words.

October 30, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Have said from the jump that DesJarlais is a D-bag. Clinton? A matter of record.

October 30, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
degage said...

Mira,Where are you? what state? Hope you and yours will be OK.

October 30, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

GALLUP: ROMNEY UP 52-45% AMONG EARLY VOTERS

The funny thing is, it's Obama out there pushing people to do the early vote thing. Watch what you wish for big ears.

October 30, 2012 at 10:16 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

All this anti-hurricane bigotry :)

50 cells--how does the economic record of GOP cells compare with that of Democrat=run cells? It's California that had gas at, what, $5 per gallon? After Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana dumped a Democrat and made Bobby Jindal governor. Gary Johnson, now the Libertarian candidate for President, claims to have had the best job growth of any state (best percentage, I suppose, not most jobs in a little New Mexico.) Freedom works. "Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."

October 30, 2012 at 10:20 a.m.
fairmon said...

ml ask....

So who will be paying for your proposed "50 cells of creativity and innovation," Harp3339?

The same people now being fleeced by the federal bureaucrats with their one shoe fits all philosophy. There is nothing the federal government intervenes or gets involved in that doesn't become more expensive. The states are victims of the perception that the federal government can afford anything and everything. You have said the states wouldn't do this or that, could it be because many have to balance their budget? Most do with some exceptions like California. Currently the only difference in the federal government and California is the fed can print money. California has several cities declaring bankruptcy and the state is rapidly approaching a similar situation. A state modeling California is like the U.S. modeling France or another European country.

October 30, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your "Biblical apologists for eons have attempted to make the case that God only destroyed the wicked, but since when are children and animals ever considered to be wicked?"

Nice strawman!

Adam and Eve were innocent until they sinned. The sin nature then passed unto all human life.

Romans 5:12 Death in Adam, Life in Christ Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Children like all humanity have a sinful nature. I hope that you know that. I also hope that you don't claim to be perfect, innocent, or sinless for Scripture surely says otherwise :

Psalm 14:3 3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Romans 3:23 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Children, you and I are God's creation and since he is soverign he decides when the body dies. The souls of those children who perished in the flood are with God.

October 30, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
dao1980 said...

Cony, don't you feel embarrassed to get so excited and squirt out all of those silly verses every time you're startled?

October 30, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.
mymy said...

7 Days to Go! (We can only hope this long nightmare will be over!)

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 30, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.
fairmon said...

ml said.... the type of politician who might urge a group of economically disadvantaged youths to borrow money from their parents so they can go to college.

Is that any worse than a politician that says I am going to pay for your college education which of course means he will require tax payers to do so. Is working and going to college no longer acceptable? I had an athletic scholarship but many would work one-two semesters, save money and attend the next. They didn't party join fraternities etc. they had a purpose. Some worked and took less hours. It did take more than 4 years but now a kid can stay on a parents health care until 26. Some college deans acknowledge that government grants and student loans have driven tuition cost up because they have to do so much to attract students. Elaborate student centers, exercise facilities and other perks not essential for an education. Check out the increase cost of tuition compared to inflation since Carter's great education department idea.

October 30, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
miraweb said...

Massachusetts. No damage to the house and we're very glad the power is up. I will go out tomorrow to see how we fared further afield.

October 30, 2012 at 10:58 a.m.
miraweb said...

Unfortunately our banking, insurance, and oil overlords much prefer a centralized regulator. They pre-empt state regulation whenever they can because the Congress is easier to manage than 50 local govts.

October 30, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The classy left continues to outdo themselves with ads, this time one from MoveOn with old ladies threatening to cpunch Romney and “burn this mother fer down” if Romney wins.

Message approved by Dude_ and morons of his ilk.

October 30, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Waiting for BHO in rowboat oaring in Time Square, a la George Washington

October 30, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “The same people now being fleeced by the federal bureaucrats with their one shoe fits all philosophy. . .The states are victims of the perception that the federal government can afford anything and everything.

As EaTn has already pointed out to you in an earlier post, your proposal would involve a lot duplication - starting with administrative costs, Harp3339. You're also overlooking the fact that some states are better than others in dealing with their problems. Take the poverty issue, for example. Compartively speaking, the rate is some states is low:

New Hampshire – 5.6%

New Jersey – 6.8%

Vermont – 7.6

Minnesota – 8.1%

In other states, there is dramatic increase, most notably in the South:

Georgia – 14.4%

New York 14.5%

Kentucky – 14.8%

Tennessee – 15% & South Carolina – 15%

West Virginia 15.4% & Oklahoma 15.6%

Arkansas – 15.9%

And in other states, the rate is incredibly high. Again, most notably in the South:

Texas 16.2%

Alabama – 16.7%

Louisana – 18.3%

New Mexico – 17.9%

Mississippi – 20.1%

District of Columbia – 21.3%

October 30, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.
miraweb said...

Romney sent his campaign bus driver to go pick up supplies and drive them somewhere. Not a photo-op or anything. I guess it would be just too flashy to write a big check to a relief agency.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6T-NTHCEAAkYHP.jpg

October 30, 2012 at 11:39 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: Still waiting for the Anointed One to parachute into Times Square with one bag full of food stamps and another full of tax payer dollars. Stand by.

October 30, 2012 at 11:50 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 asked: “Is that any worse than a politician that says I am going to pay for your college education which of course means he will require tax payers to do so.”

You mean like a politician who says he is going to increase a military budget by 2 trillion, which would require the taxpayers to pick up the tab?

October 30, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
miraweb said...

I'm pretty satisfied that the first responders whose jobs were saved by the stimulus are on the ground now.

Not as sexy, but it'll do.

It might be a little more effective than a picture of a bus in Wisconsin with a nice logo and a couple of boxes placed artfully in front.

Seriously - when we have 60 million people hit by a hurricane we can see that we need every public and private resource we have to help.

When we have 46 million people in poverty folks think there is some merit in arguing about private charity vs. public charity.

I have a hard time seeing the downside of having both the Red Cross and the National Guard.

We need all we've got. And then some.

October 30, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: agree. including the bus.

October 30, 2012 at 12:21 p.m.
Greyhawk said...

What is wrong with the "conservatives" on this site? There are millions of AMERICANS suffering from the effects of the largest hurricane on record and all you mud-slingers can do is bitch about the president. Obviously none of you give a damn about anything but yourselves. Screw the whole lot of you.

October 30, 2012 at 12:26 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

BHO in Situation Room for Sandy. No where to be found during Benghazi.

October 30, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Miraweb says: "I'm pretty satisfied that the first responders whose jobs were saved by the stimulus are on the ground now."

By first responders are you talking about all of those fire, police and emergency medical personnel that Mitt Romney says the public doesn’t want more of and doesn’t need?

October 30, 2012 at 12:28 p.m.
miraweb said...

Americans came together after 9/11 and Katrina. I am sure the better angels of our nature will shine again.

E Pluribus Unum.

October 30, 2012 at 12:32 p.m.
miraweb said...

Took a walk around the neighborhood. I have a couple of trees down on the back of the property but not where they will do any harm.

Hurricane Irene left us a "leaner" over the garage that I had taken down a month ago.

October 30, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
degage said...

Mira, better send the items people need than to the relief agencys that only get 30%to the ones that need it.Red cross is good but only 50% gets to the needy, the rest goes for the running of the foundation. The head of red cross makes a very large salary.The head of salvation army on the other hand only makes around 20,000 a yr.If Romney was to send a check, better to be S A. He probably is doing both the bus to get things there faster than a check would.

October 30, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.
miraweb said...

Salvation Army does some pretty good work as does Catholic Charities.

Portlight is another one that focuses on helping the disabled in disaster zones that has a good reputation.

October 30, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.
miraweb said...

The bus is in Wisconsin. Every little bit helps, I suppose, but it won't be arriving in Virginia for a while.

October 30, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.
rolando said...

Our resident "artist" is running scared...there is nothing even halfway derogatory he can scape up about Romney so he turns to the sympathy vote.

This is the "artist" who refuses to draw anything whatsoever that is patriotic or supportive of our nation, at least in my memory. Further, he simply cannot face the fact that The Obama[nation] "cannot fool all the people all the time". He is a Democrat partisan who will sink to any level in support of this abominable, unfit, indecisive President.

Incidently, Gov Romney is ahead with early-voters, 52-45. The Obama[nation] is currently running 20 points below his 2008 early-voter support. I wonder if the White House silver will still be there when the current occupants leave...I remember the Clinton departure. They looked like the Clampetts...

October 30, 2012 at 1:02 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your charges of "murder" by God.

This is gross blasphemy! You are speaking, attributing evil to a holy, righteous and just God :

Psalm 145:17 KJV The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

Isaiah 45:21 KJV

....and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour ; there is none beside me

Psalm 19:9 KJV The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Murder is when one man unjustly kills another man.This could never apply to a just and righteous God.

Now,God created all of mankind. All men die, a fact that even atheist recognize.

You will die alprova : Hebrews 9:27 KJV And as it is appointed unto men once to die...

After you die alprova,you will be judged :

Hebrews 9:27 KJV

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So, according to your blasphemous and erroneous logic, God unjustly murders everyone, not just children.

October 30, 2012 at 1:29 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Oh dear . . . NYU Hospital Evacuated After Generator Failure:

“Details are still emerging about the evacuation of New York University's Langone Medical Center, the sprawling hospital complex in Manhattan, following the failure of both its main and backup power generators Monday night.

Lorinda Klein, a spokeswoman from NYU who was not on the scene, told The Huffington Post that staff and emergency personnel were continuing to evacuate patients on Tuesday morning, and that they were “hoping” to be finished by noon.

“The evacuation continued all night,” Klein said. “It was very slow and methodical.” She described staff on the scene as “absolutely exhausted.”

Late Monday, the hospital issued a short statement announcing the transfer of approximately 215 patients to nearby facilities. Klein confirmed that patients were being transferred to Lenox Hill, Memorial Sloan Kettering, Mount Sinai and New York Presbyterian/Weill Cornell hospitals...

A nurse at the hospital, who spoke to The Huffington Post on the condition of anonymity, said that when she started her shift at 8 p.m. on Monday, the computers on her floor were out and the power outlets were not working, but the lights were still on. Around midnight, she said, the power went out. Patients were given flashlights in their rooms and seemed generally calm, she said, while hospital staff worked with medical students, volunteers and rescue workers to move patients using “med sleds” -- a process she said took about 15 minutes per patient.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/30/nyu-hospital-evacuation-sandy_n_2043922.html

October 30, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said...

You mean like a politician who says he is going to increase a military budget by 2 trillion, which would require the taxpayers to pick up the tab?

You haven't seen me support that. It is also why I will vote for Gary Johnson over either of them. I would have less problem if a lot of it went to the care of wounded soldiers and to assist those retuning to public life. To sum up my position opposite yours I think Obama sucks and is a PP leader, you love him and his promise to take care of everyone and to knock the wealthy off with higher rates rather than logical code revision. Or, a fair tax system as proposed in both houses to replace the current convoluted system.

Give him credit. Provide him a teleprompter and a good speech writer and he can deliver it like an old time southern preacher or like his reverent Wright. He can stir up the masses, make them a rock throwing mob. Go ahead, vote yourself wealth from the public treasury and let those that follow you pay it back in triplet in later years.

October 30, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountain laurel said.....

As EaTn has already pointed out to you in an earlier post, your proposal would involve a lot duplication - starting with administrative costs, Harp3339.

This is the most erroneous statement today. It also shows you are not aware of how inefficient and costly FEMA admin cost have been which is typical of most over paid and over staffed federal bureaucracies with their duplications, complications and turf protection. There is a huge difference in coordination between states and assuming control which is how FEMA views their role.

You're also overlooking the fact that some states are better than others in dealing with their problems. Take the poverty issue, for example. Comparatively speaking, the rate is some states is low:

Therefore? What do those with the lower rates do better than those with higher rates? A stat you don't show is the total money flow, not just welfare, from the federal level to those states and entities within those states with low rates compared to the other states.

October 30, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.

Harp3339, let me offer a simple rebuttal to your individualist idea.

There's a whole bunch of trees down in your road. You can work with a bunch of people to move them or you can try innovating one out of the way and ignoring the others.

Yes, there are problems with monolithic entities, but there are also problems with individuals acting on their own in a less effective manner.

Your naive belief that devolution is the ultimate solution ignores the power of a team acting in concert. Maybe you need to watch one of those sports movies where the individual star performer learns a lesson about teamwork.

But I'm doubtful of your ability to recognize a balance, as I suspect you would prefer scare tactics over some global super nation while ignoring the perils of corrupt individuals on a small scale.

And yes, harp3339, Romney's obliviousness to his life of privilege is worse than government funded education because only the most oblivious don't realize what the investment in them today means for tomorrow. Even Mitt Romney knows that, but he doesn't seem to know that not every parent is as rich as his.

As for California, their GDP is close to two trillion dollars. They could easily close their deficit gab and pay off the debt if they were constrained to do so. And it would be even easier if they could get more back from the feds. The gap in their tax contribution versus spending is large enough to swallow several other states.

So the next time you look down on California, take the time to realize it isn't that simple. Especially since you might be the one benefitting.

I bet that fifty incubators idea wouldn't work out as well for you as you think.

And yes, if you want such a table, it can be found. Slate just covered it last month. Doesn't look good for red state Mississippi at all. There's even a book that suggests kicking out the South as a form of tough love.

Conservative, it is indeed atheists who accept death. It is religion that brings up the notion of immortality. They are also the ones who often attempt to ascribe every disaster as a message from their preferred deity which happens to coincide with what they believe already.

Personally I wonder what kind of feeling a truly benevolent God would have about being used to advance such a cruel agenda.

Rolando, in case you didn't know, those Clampetts you deride were actually the good folks of the series, honest and genuine people who didn't engage in pretense or posturing.

It was the people who looked down upon them who got their come-uppance.

I guess that shows what side you're on. I'd rather be a Clampett any day of the week no matter who looks down upon me with their nose in the air.

October 30, 2012 at 2:46 p.m.
miraweb said...

Bulbs adds - Doesn't look good for red state Mississippi at all. There's even a book that suggests kicking out the South as a form of tough love.

I could see kicking out Texas. It's a pity Mexico won't take them back.

:-)

October 30, 2012 at 3:34 p.m.
Leaf said...

The message of the day SHOULD be that despite our political differences we all pull together during a disaster. But instead we get a Ayn Randian rant about every individual being responsible for their own hurricane relief and FEMA is an evil entity set on enslaving the populace or some such paranoid nonsense.

Then of course a little bible thumping came way out of left field from our favorite snake handler. Oh, look, I'm doing it too! Oh well, I guess we're all just a bunch of opinionated jerks.

October 30, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Mira, better send the items people need than to the relief agencys that only get 30%to the ones that need it.Red cross is good but only 50% gets to the needy, the rest goes for the running of the foundation. The head of red cross makes a very large salary.The head of salvation army on the other hand only makes around 20,000 a yr.If Romney was to send a check, better to be S A. He probably is doing both the bus to get things there faster than a check would.

Salvation Army does not file a 990, so it is not evaluated by Charity Navigator. You are wrong about ARC-92.2% of their funds go to programs directly, and their CEO is paid 0.01% of funds, which is on the moderate side.

October 30, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
miraweb said...

Yes, but we're AMERICAN opinionated jerks!

October 30, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
miraweb said...

NASA is testing some Hurricane Hunter drones. Now that's a great idea.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/10/hurricane-hunters/

October 30, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: I heart Texas

October 30, 2012 at 3:53 p.m.
miraweb said...

Of course, Texas would just see it as expelling the other 49.

October 30, 2012 at 4:03 p.m.
miraweb said...

I suppose everyone needs someone who loves them - even Texas.

October 30, 2012 at 4:06 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

This is great. Half of the Obama supporters on the East coast will be too busy looting to go to the polls!

October 30, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

Half plus 1 is all you need. We're going to the polls - at least as soon as we get them put back together.

October 30, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira, you mean other 56?

October 30, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.
fairmon said...

HAPPY BULBS SAID...

Your naive belief that devolution is the ultimate solution ignores the power of a team acting in concert. Maybe you need to watch one of those sports movies where the individual star performer learns a lesson about teamwork.

Naive is believing the following is not a serious issue:

o a debt of 16 trillion with a GDP of 15.4 trillion is not an indicator of a good team.

o 121 trillion of unfunded future liabilities including medicaid, medicare, prescription drugs and social security is not an indication of a winning team.

o $142,500 dollars debt obligation per tax payer is not a team I want to be part of.

I have no doubt neighbors would help with removing the trees if I needed their help. Looking to federal for everything is like having too many players on the field. Local and state in many cases can do team work better than a Goliath poorly managed one plan works for all central government. The federal government has a role they should concentrate on and do it well.

Anything can be justified in our minds even if not affordable. Too many Americans are willing to take on more debt than they can service then look to someone else to bale them out when they say uh-oh my bad. Too many are OK with the government doing the same thing. It is selfish and greedy to pass the debt burden on to future generations. Someone, some day has to feel the pain of denial and reverse the flow, if now when? If not you and I who? Some people would eat the heart out of the water melon and give their kids and grand kids the rind, are you and mountainlaurel among them?

October 30, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up. Regarding your "I noticed that you simply ignored the fact that there are examples of men being asked, By God, to sacrifice their first born sons as a demonstration of loyalty."

No! not loyalty, but a test of faith and obedience. God stoped him, Abraham did not take his son's life.

Why did you use the word "asked" when God commanded and why did you use the word "sons?" You have either been bamboozled or you are trying to bamboozle me.

Which is it?

Genesis 22 : 10-12 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said , Abraham, Abraham: and he said , Here am I. 12 And he said , Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Hebrews 11 :17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried , offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said , That in Isaac shallthy seed be called : 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up , even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

October 30, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “To sum up my position opposite yours I think Obama sucks and is a PP leader, you love him and his promise to take care of everyone and to knock the wealthy off with higher rates rather than logical code revision etc.”

Excuse me, Harp3339, but you’re getting a little carried away with your version of what I want and don’t want in a presidential candidate. Everyone is concerned about the deficit, but some of us just don’t share your approach. Like Romney you just want to cut taxes for the wealthy and cut services to the poor, which is not a solution. It only complicates our other problems and weakens the nation. I prefer President Obama’s approach. It’s fair and makes more sense.

Harp3339 said: “This is the most erroneous statement today. It also shows you are not aware of how inefficient and costly FEMA admin cost have been which is typical of most over paid and over staffed federal bureaucracies with their duplications, complications and turf protection.”

Are you talking about former FEMA Director Michael Brown’s botched response to Hurricane Katrina? If so, you need to remember that “Brownie” was a political hack and lacked the kind of emergency management experience needed for the position. The thought of putting the U.S. at risk of having 50 "Brownies" is chilling - so thanks but no thanks, Harp3339.

Harp3339 said: “There is a huge difference in coordination between states and assuming control which is how FEMA views their role.”

I think you’re forgetting that FEMA doesn’t get involved until a governor of the state has declared a state of emergency and makes a formal request to the president that FEMA and the federal government respond to the disaster. To assume that other states are going to have the kind of expertise needed to handle these big disasters is crazy.

October 30, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.
ricardo said...

Stay safe, miraweb.

October 30, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Give it up conservative. You've been exposed. You claim to take the bible literally but can't explain or handle the inconsistencies. Most Christians have no problem finding the value in the bible without following it word for word. Your "inerrant" bible is anything but.

October 30, 2012 at 6:22 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Yes, Yes, Yes . . . Governor Cuomo made some good points today:

“I’m hopeful that not only will we rebuild this city and metropolitan area but use this as an opportunity to build it back smarter. There have been a series of extreme weather events. That is not a political statement; that is a factual statement. Anyone who says there is not a change in weather patterns is denying reality,” said Cuomo. “We have a new reality when it comes to these weather patterns; we have an old infrastructure, we have old systems. That is not a good combination and that is one of the lessons I will take from this, personally.”

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/10/30/cuomo-we-need-to-plan-rebuild-for-‘new-reality’/

October 30, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

An overwhelming percentage of Russians say the reelection of US President Barack Obama would better serve Russia’s national interests as opposed to the presidential challenger, Mitt Romney. With the presidential race in the United States going down to the wire among American voters, Mitt Romney must be thankful that Russian citizens are not eligible to vote in US elections. In a nationwide poll that tracked Russians’ political attitudes, a whopping 41 per cent of respondents said they want to see President Obama voted back into the White House, while just 8 per cent expressed preference for Republican challenger Mitt Romney.

OF COURSE....they know Putin can shape BHO like a Rolled Gold Pretzel.

October 30, 2012 at 6:39 p.m.
ricardo said...

So, the Russian people think Obama is more likeable. What else is new?

October 30, 2012 at 6:51 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova, open up, Regarding your "According to Deuteronomy 21:18-21, it is commanded that you take your rebellious son to the elders of the city and allow them to stone him to death."

"But that's not innocent life, is it?"

No, it is not! Perhaps you should read the passage rather than be misled by atheists who just cite Deuteronomy 21:18-21 without the words.

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

October 30, 2012 at 7:09 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Good Dog, conservative, your posts are getting crazier by the day.

October 30, 2012 at 7:23 p.m.
raygunz said...

Jack_Dennis said...

"An overwhelming percentage of Russians say the reelection of US President Barack Obama would better serve Russia’s national interests as opposed to the presidential challenger, Mitt Romney."

That would be after Rmoney's idiotic statement that "the USSR(which no longer exists) is our #1 geopolitical rival"

Dingbat.

October 30, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

MSNBC Ridicules Romney for Collecting Food and Supplies for Sandy Victims

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/10/30/msnbc-trashes-romney-collecting-food-and-supplies-sandy-victims#ixzz2ApbIwMrm

So much for the democrats being the party of charity and giving. Bashir needs c#ck-punched.

October 30, 2012 at 8:20 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

raygunz needs to learn some facts. Romney said Russia, not the "USSR".

And by the way, Russia still exists.

Moron.

October 30, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

raygunz pulled that one right out of his hiney.

October 30, 2012 at 8:38 p.m.
raygunz said...

Do you think "Russia" is our #1 foe too, putz?

October 30, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Not out of the realm of possibility, fu#kwad.

October 30, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.
raygunz said...

Jack,the expert on hineys.

October 30, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Quarter-billion-dollar stimulus grant creates just 400 jobs Bankrupt energy business joins list of federally-backed flops

Quarter-billion-dollar stimulus grant creates just 400 jobs - Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/29/hiring-stats-elusive-in-latest-energy-failure/#ixzz2Apit0mSl

Obama, such a masterful and brilliant man. How will the country possibly survive without him?

October 30, 2012 at 8:51 p.m.
ricardo said...

Jack Dumbass and Toecheese said, "Mr. Putin, rebuild this wall."

October 30, 2012 at 9:01 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Toes: The MSNBC anchor ridiculing Romney was Bashir....not surprised.

October 30, 2012 at 9:23 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Forgot Mr. Putin is hero to you lefties.

October 30, 2012 at 9:25 p.m.
ricardo said...

Jack_Dennis said..."Forgot Mr. Putin is hero to you lefties."

Not really. I just don't live in the 80's anymore.

October 30, 2012 at 9:28 p.m.
hambone said...

When you are stuck with the Romney/Ryan ticket the only thing you can do is bash Obama!

October 30, 2012 at 9:39 p.m.
miraweb said...

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Ricardo. Much appreciated.

October 30, 2012 at 9:42 p.m.
miraweb said...

I did see an interview where NJ Gov Chris Christy came down hard on the Fox and Friends hosts when they asked if he would be ferrying Romney around with him to assess the disaster zones.

Christy made it pretty clear that photo ops for the Romney campaign were not on his list of things to do today and made a point of saying he'd had three calls with the President and was rapidly getting everything he was asking for from the White House.

I thought the Foxsters were going to cut off his mike.

October 30, 2012 at 9:52 p.m.

harp3339, you're right, anything can be justified in our owns minds. You're an example of that, as you keep pushing that debt bandwagon, but don't embrace a solution to it. You just use it as a scare tactic. Why? Oh yes, because then you can complain nobody cares about it. The reality is that I don't agree with your cynical exploitation or your proposed solutions. Of course you'd rather present that as me not caring at all, to further your own agenda. That's you justifying yourself. Which just validates what I said about you using it as a scare tactic. Oh wait, that's me justifying myself. What a conundrum we have there.

Debt as a percentage of GDP is a TERRIBLE measure. So is worrying about future liabilities. Which are actually FAR larger than your big number there. The nation doesn't stop existing, and if it does then we've got worse problems. Why not look at the country's overall wealth and assets? Oh wait, that would make your debt worries seem irrelevant.

The debt wasn't built in a day, it won't go away in a day either, and it won't be assessed against individual taxpayers. But if it were, we could easily pay it off and still have plenty of assets.

You might as well argue that somebody who gets a mortgage 4-5 times their income is a terrible financial steward, and say they should stick to renting instead. That's really the result of your practices, instead of prudent behavior, you embrace one that costs the future.

And perhaps in many cases, local and state governments can do better. Except where they won't, due to corruption, incompetence or outright malice. What to do about that? You may worry about a central bureaucracy, but I also worry about the perils of a lack of it and the perils that causes.

But this is something you paper over, since it doesn't fit with your agenda. Much like your water-melon metaphor. C'mon, do you think it's not obvious what you're doing with that one? Or do you think I can't come up with a way to turn it against you?

Here's what you'd do with that watermelon: burn the seeds rather than grow the next crop, since you're so scared somebody else might benefit from your hard work. Or perhaps you'd burn the portion you can't eat rather than let somebody else have it, since you are so afraid they won't learn the value of working.

Do keep pushing this debt bogeyman, because even though you'd never admit it, there are solutions to the problem, but not from Gary Johnson or Mitt Romney or Grover Norquist or any of their ilk. They're the kind of people who would run the small town into bankruptcy and squalor while proclaiming how they were saving it.

Maybe instead of your austerity mentality, if we're concerned about the debt, we should stop listening to the people who have exploited it to get what they want from the people.

That's the Republicans, if you haven't noticed.

October 30, 2012 at 10:40 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Children like all humanity have a sinful nature. I hope that you know that. I also hope that you don't claim to be perfect, innocent, or sinless for Scripture surely says otherwise"

Try focusing on the issue I raised for just one second. Now either the Bible depicts acts of God taking innocent life, or it does not.

It does.

If you're going to justify what is contained in the Bible by saying that children "have a sinful nature," then I retort that abortion is a pre-emptive act of eliminating all those sinful children.

Do you see how your argument falls apart? Of course not. I'm asking the wrong person.

"Children, you and I are God's creation and since he is soverign he decides when the body dies. The souls of those children who perished in the flood are with God."

What about all the adults? Is it your contention that every adult deserved to die? Do you truly believe that there was but one righteous man who walked with God?

You might find some consolation in believing that all those children who were put to death are with God, but I doubt that many people would agree with you.

October 31, 2012 at 1:31 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "This is gross blasphemy! You are speaking, attributing evil to a holy, righteous and just God"

At no time have I typed the word "evil" to describe what God did. I used the specific word "murder" to describe what he did.

"Thou shall not kill."*

How can a "holy, right, and just God" issue that Commandment after committing the very act himself, that is if the Bible is to be taken literally and if it is the word of God?

You don't have a problem with that?

"Murder is when one man unjustly kills another man.This could never apply to a just and righteous God."

But...the Bible tells us that we were created in his own image, so isn't God a human being too?

"Now,God created all of mankind. All men die, a fact that even atheist recognize."

Of course everyone dies. However, I don't think you can make a case that the 150 year flood was a natural event, given that only one family of who knows how many, was spared life.

"So, according to your blasphemous and erroneous logic, God unjustly murders everyone, not just children."

You are bat crap crazy and you are incapable of sticking to the subject at hand.

October 31, 2012 at 1:50 a.m.
fairmon said...

hwtnb said......

Maybe instead of your austerity mentality, if we're concerned about the debt, we should stop listening to the people who have exploited it to get what they want from the people.

That's the Republicans, if you haven't noticed.

No, you got that wrong. I haven't noticed either party coming up short on increasing the debt. Obama has set a record that was not all his fault but he will break that record next term It is obvious you are a democrat and would buy anything they are selling. It is evident we will not agree on much of anything as long as you don't see the deficits and debt as no problem and for which you offer zero solutions.

hwtnb also said...

local and state governments can do better. Except where they won't, due to corruption, incompetence or outright malice. What to do about that? You may worry about a central bureaucracy, but I also worry about the perils of a lack of it and the perils that causes.

Are you suggesting there is no corruption, incompetence or malice in the federal government.......I just realized, you must be a federal employee. Their processes and systems are often enough to get an incompetence rating. It is so large, over lapping, redundant and often so poorly managed it is a quagmire.

October 31, 2012 at 8:18 p.m.
rolando said...

harp said, "Rolando, in case you didn't know, those Clampetts you deride were actually the good folks of the series, honest and genuine people who didn't engage in pretense or posturing."

The Clampett's were typical of their type in real life, harp, although overplayed for "humor". I lived out there and saw them as they arrived. Look at that area [and their bankrupt Progressive state] today and you will see the result of the type's "honest and genuine" works. Hollywood is loaded with them. You don't even have to look that far -- just look at our country today and you will see it -- provided you can still "see".

November 1, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.
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