published Wednesday, August 21st, 2013

The Train Wreck

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

160
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
hotdiggity said...

Someone tell me again what the Repubs are proposing to replace Obamacare? Tens of millions of Americans without basic health care and what does the party of family values propose to help these citizens?

Perhaps some of our good christian conservative posters could give us a quote from Jesus regarding helping the poor and repressed.

August 21, 2013 at 1:06 a.m.
soakya said...

Perhaps some of those who believe health care is a basic human right can take the money out of their own pocket without the force of government and fund it out of the goodness of their loving liberal hearts. When they do this I will believe they are concerned about those who have no health insurance.

I would propose if you know someone who needs health insurance and you are concerned with their lack of health insurance you should purchase it for them. 60 million people voted for Obama so that's 2 liberal voters for every person needing health insurance. What good is your concern if you do nothing for them and are waiting for others to help? How many have suffered because you refused to act while waiting on the government for help. How's that for a proposal.

August 21, 2013 at 1:11 a.m.
SE said...

I sure hope it happens the way it's drawn.

August 21, 2013 at 1:51 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Well soakya just think what we could do with health care if the 76% of the American adult population who identify themselves as Christian all chipped in.

It's hard to dispute that Jesus instructed his followers to help the weak, the sick, and the poor.

Of course if you are not a follower of Christ and his teachings, then my post is not directed at you. Still, I find it amazing the apathy that so many people have towards their fellow man, let alone their fellow citizens, when it comes to even providing basic health care. Simply amazing.

August 21, 2013 at 2:34 a.m.
soakya said...

My point exactly. Its apathy to know their is need to be filled and you do nothing to meet that need but to expect government to meet that need thru force. If the only reason someone will provide that care is thru force then that's not true concern. What good does it for a liberal to say someone needs health insurance and then depends on others to provide it.

If you feel everyone should have coverage start with your relatives, if they all have insurance then go to your friends and neighbors if they all have insurance find a stranger that needs it and provide it. Do what you can do and quit expecting others to do it. That I believe is Christ's way.

Its been 4 years we have talking about this, if liberals were truly concerned that 30 million had no insurance the 60 million that voted for Obama could have provided the coverage during this time.

August 21, 2013 at 3:06 a.m.
alprova said...

hotdiggity, you and I are both amazed at the comments coming from people who are almost assuredly covered for their health care expenses, most likely as a benefit provided to them by the employers they work for.

And because they have health care insurance, and everything in their world is a-okay at the moment, they haver not an ounce of concern for people who number one, do not have access to health care insurance, or number two, who cannot afford health care insurance.

Personally, I have every reason to believe when ObamaCare is rolled out from behind the showroom curtain, the President will be getting the last laugh on every single Republican who has tried to repeal it during those 40 votes taken in the House of Representatives.

For three long years, chicken wing flappers have been flapping those wings, predicting doom and gloom for the entire nation, predicting everything from Doctors who will abandon their practices and become ditch diggers, all the way to a transformation from a nation of full time jobs to that where we all will be working 30 hours or less.

Cries of condemnation of our "Socialist President" have emitted from the lips of many, despite the fact that their is very little socialism surrounding the first planks laid to overhaul this nation's health care system.

Predictions are all over the place, with very few people taking the time to research the proposals with an open mind. Why should they? They have their health care insurance in place.

Now Republicans have been gnashing their teeth, whining and moaning about ObamaCare for three years, and to date, not one sensible alternative proposal has come from their camp that has been proven to work to insure more of those who are uninsured, that would cost less than ObamCare, and that would drive down the costs of health care.

5 weeks and 5 days. That's when we will have the plans, the prices, and the policy choices that will go into effect come January 1, 2014. The President and his fellow Democrats have a great deal riding on what is rolled out in a few weeks.

I'm confident that the goods will be delivered. If so, the Republicans are going to have lots of egg on their faces, after all their wing flapping. On the other hand, if the goods are NOT delivered, the Democrats are going to lose an astounding amount of credibility and the mid-terms are going to be extremely rough.

August 21, 2013 at 3:26 a.m.
degage said...

Funny, it was a democrat that said that and he helped frame the bill. I guess Clay wasn't aware of that or maybe he just doesn't want to admit it.

August 21, 2013 at 5:59 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Churches have better things to spend their money on than helping the poor without healthcare, like $700,000 crosses. They are not interested in anything but the money they can drain off these poor brainwashed "followers" and how big a house their preacher has and how many fancy cars in his fleet of automobiles and giant, useless, idols (crosses) where their "savior" met his death. I'm sure that's a vision he doesn't care to see again.

August 21, 2013 at 6:09 a.m.
conservative said...

Hmm, DEMOCRAT....

With me so far?

DEMOCRAT Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee said this about Owebamacare:

“Unless we implement this properly, it’s going to be a train wreck.”

August 21, 2013 at 6:46 a.m.
Maximus said...

Let them eat er er er or be covered by Medicaid. The primary component of Obamacare is deceit for Dear Leader Obama wants a single payer guvment run system complete with Obama Nanny State agents knocking on your door to make sure you are taking care of your at risk children. By the way your children are at risk if you are:

A gun owner. A smoker. A Republican.

Now dats NOT funny!

August 21, 2013 at 6:48 a.m.
conservative said...

A DEMOCRAT house divided, unions withdraw support and demand repeal!

"Late last week, the 22,000-member United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers dropped a bombshell on the Obama administration, not only withdrawing its support for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, but also demanding its repeal."

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042613-653771-obamacare-backers-back-away-from-higher-costs-of-obamacare.htm

August 21, 2013 at 7:03 a.m.
EaTn said...

Unwittingly, the right-wingers are pushing Obamacare into a "train wreck" that will be replaced by a single-payer system (eg. Medicare/Medicaid), which was intended by Obama in the first place before the Repubs and their lobbyist friends got their grubby hands on it.

August 21, 2013 at 7:06 a.m.
Maximus said...

Eaten....yes riiiiiight. The sad truth is that some can't make it on their own and need help while the majority of liberals are seeking some sort of impossible utopian society where enslavement by guvment entitlement is the answer.

As for me I got this.....I'm going to work! Back to EasTn....you can tell you are from East Tn....lay off the shine and meth dude! :)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

August 21, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
librul said...

And, Max, right wingers live in a dense mental fog that blinds them to the fact that not everyone, despite their best efforts, is sitting on a mountain of cash; not everyone has found success through "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" over and over again; not everyone enjoys the benefits of a 'freeeway to success' paved by privilege bought by grandpa's bank account and a prep school education; not everyone has their fanatical obsession with wealth as a vision of utopia. They deny the concept of "society" if it means including others and sharing ANYTHING with less fortunate folk, whether or not they have had what they would call "opportunity to succeed". They sadly conflate "conservatism" with greed and selfishness to the detriment of all and their blindness is such that they cannot see that the detriments also apply to them. They preach but never listen. They play political games only to their benefit. They are zombies walking among the masses. They play to the basest of human proclivities.

A right wing utopia is not America. It is Amerika, and it will be destroyed and them along with it.

August 21, 2013 at 8:14 a.m.
fairmon said...

Republicans should not object further. Insist that exemptions be rescinded and all phases implemented as scheduled by the law and let the chips fall where they may. Lessons learned the hard way are not easily or soon forgotten. Pelosi was right, "we won't know what is in it until approved" she failed to add and implemented. The anticipation of something is often better than the experience.

August 21, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.
Reardon said...

Anybody with enough IQ to power a moped around a penny should well enough see this thing called Obamacare was rigged to fail into a Single-Payer Solution from the beginning.

The whole structure of health care is flawed anyway, from a market-standpoint. Even before Oblameocare, the amount of government intervention has prevented any substantial free-market solution from coming about.

August 21, 2013 at 8:48 a.m.
tifosi said...

Maxipad's Christian colors are flying. Throw the poor under the bus... then full speed ahead! Line Maxifraud's pockets with more gold. While the poor die, he is smoking cigars, drinking scotch and floatin' his yacht.

August 21, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.
alprova said...

Since we're discussing ObamaCare and there are those who pretend to be uber-conservative have piped up with righteous indignation, here's something for some of you to chew on.

Under the law, states were given the opportunity to set up their own health care insurance exchanges, where they could have controlled many of the standards and prices of insurance.

State administered exchanges are be able to determine which plans are sold or excluded from the exchanges, adjust the prices being offered through negotiations with insurers, and they could have imposed higher or state-specific coverage requirements.

More specific to the point I am raising, states that are setting up their own exchanges are allowed to prohibit abortion coverage, making the procedure an out-of-pocket expense, or mandate that in order to cover the cost of any abortion, a physician would have to determine the procedure medically necessary.

27 states, most all of them Republican dominated, decided to not set up their own exchanges, and therefore lost that discretion, so the responsibility for setting up the insurance exchanges for the citizens in those states defaulted to the federal government. The Department of Health and Human Services assumed the authority and the legal obligation to offer policies that provide payments for abortion coverage.

Now I don't know, but it seems to me that a great many Republicans shot themselves in the foot in their protesting the PPACA, because by default, they made abortions more affordable, and an insured medical procedure, within their own red states.

Now before someone goes off half-cocked, anyone who has a Federally subsidized policy will have to pay the relevant subsidized portion of the cost to obtain an abortion out of their own pocket, but the average recipient of an abortion will save somewhere between 25%-50%, because the relevant portion they pay in premiums, or that is paid for on behalf of a non-exempt employer, will cover the cost of an abortion.

Wanna bet that when many of the red states discover this, that they will not have a future change of heart, so to speak?

August 21, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.
carlB said...

Very GOOD, Clay! Just goes along with all of the Republicans' objectives to be TERRORIST against this Republic. There is some anti President Obama negative actions occurring now that are "cut and dried" and there are definitely different types of TERRORISM that are being tried.. Why does the Media not call what the Republicans have done or tried to do, terrorism and treason against the President Obama? Under the conditions which caused the 2007 deep recession, such as the fraud and the global economy if it were not for the help of the FEDs and the US Government helping out with the $700 Billion. Dollar TARP in September 2008 and then the Stimulus Recovery money in 2009, would this Republic be in another "great depression"? After President Obama took office in January 2009 the Republican's actions have been of disavowal and despicable in the House and Senate to publicly announce their objective was to cause President Obama's failure. Therefore preventing and obstructing the recovery of the 2007 recession. This action should definitely be called a terrorist and traitorous act against this Republic, the people and the Commander-in-Chief. What if the Republicans had been able to actually cause President Obama's failure? After the arrogance shown by these "enemies" of President Obama and of this country, it causes me to be opposed to anybody who tries to "lie to the voters that President Obama has been a complete failure after having tried to cause him to be a failure.

August 21, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
joneses said...

Where are the race baiters al sharpton, jesse jackson, obama and holder on these black murderers? Why do the blacks that randomly shoot, kill, torture and murder whites not get the same attention as the thug treyvon martin did?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/21/police-say-teen-shot-australian-student-in-oklahoma-for-fun-it/?test=latestnews

August 21, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.
tifosi said...

Feel free to step up to the plate joneses. Pecking on your keyboard shows you have no guts and just want to whine.

August 21, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

alpo and hotdiggitydog,

It amazes me that grown adults such as yourselves believe things like healthcare simply fall from the sky. Diggitydog talks about religious people chipping in? Hey tool man, the poor are provided the best medical care available at no cost to the patient. You may have heard of it. It's called Medicaid. Even non believers contribute. Next we have SCHIP programs for children of families who earn less than 235% of the poverty level. A family of 4 qualifies if they earn under $54,400 this year having to pay a very nominal premium monthly.

alpo, you claim states can demand plans cost x amount of dollars. You sir are a crack head. There isn't a company in business that will enter into any exchange and operate in the red. Speak to a Blue Cross exec and they will tell you they don't have any set figures to deliver as of today. Aetna is not participating! The idea of affordable health care is an oxymoron moron! The people who fall outside the income limits to qualify for Medicaid that will be paying for their own plan will elect to pay the penalty because they cannot afford the "Affordable Health Care Act." How ironic. Well keep your nose up O'blablablamas business end and breath deep. That dumb a$$ gas you folks suck in sure keeps your IQ in the single digits!

August 21, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

hotdiggity: Are you high?

August 21, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Perhaps some of those who believe health care is a basic human right can take the money out of their own pocket without the force of government and fund it out of the goodness of their loving liberal hearts....I would propose if you know someone who needs health insurance and you are concerned with their lack of health insurance you should purchase it for them." - soakya

This comment needs to wins some kind of blue ribbon for being the dumbest, most asinine statement anybody has said so far. Health insurance is so ridiculously expensive that most people can barely afford it for themselves and their families, let alone having to worry about somebody else. Buying health insurance is not like buying a pair of shoes or a bag of groceries. It's a life-long deal and one of the most expensive monthly bills that we incur. For some people their monthly health insurance premiums are more than their mortgage or their rent. The only people who could possibly afford to pay those premiums for other people are those among us who are the absolute richest. And even if anybody could afford to pay for others that is no solution. There are many things about living in today's world that no amount of philanthropic donations or charitable giving from churches or individuals will ever be able to cover. And when the free market places one of the commodities essential to life so high in price that many people cannot afford it, that is when either the government has to step in or something about the system has to change so that people do not suffer or die because they cannot afford it. Heath insurance should not be a commodity sold on the open market. It is a right that each and every American should have access to, regardless of income level.

August 21, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

So Ricky: Should we just jump on the unwieldy, burdensome, unworkable, destined to fail, cumbersome, muleheaded, disaster certain, bankrupting, destroyer of the 40 hr. work week, plan that comes along? Hmmm?

August 21, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.
librul said...

I wish people would quit saying "health INSURANCE is a right" - the boards and CEOs of insurance corporations and big pharma and hospital comglomerates LOVE to hear that - it's music to their ears. Fact is, HEALTH CARE is a right and making HEALTH CARE affordable by eliminating all the skimmers, middlemen and scamsters in the insurance (i.e. theft) industry would go a long way toward bringing the RIGHT of HEALTH CARE to all the people. Single Payer will work if we can get rid of what has given us line item charges of $50 for aspirin tablets.

August 21, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.
limric said...

Republicans sure are a bunch of screwballs when it comes to health care.

Didn’t the ‘Health Care Mandate’ originate from the Heritage Foundation? Wasn’t it promoted by conservatives (the 90th congress)? Wasn’t it implemented by a conservative (Romney-Care)? Wasn’t the ‘mandate' upheld by a conservative (Justice John Roberts)?

But - but - but it must be REPEALED -- over & over & over ad nauseam.

So what’s their alternative – nothing. Oh wait, they do have an alternative, and it’s actually very simple:

1.If you’re sick, there’s something obviously wrong with you.

2.If you believe in personal responsibility (like all good christian conservatives do), then you know that ‘something wrong with you' - is your fault.

3.It’s not the purpose of government to fix for something that is your fault.

4.The way to put things right again is to get right with God, and prayer is free.

5.Tax cuts.

Stay well America.

I think Republicans only reason for being against comprehensive health care isn’t what it is, how it’s administered or paid for, it’s that it is an Obama’s initiative. It has to be; other than vouchers, they’ve really offered nothing as an alternative. But then that’s the point isn’t it.

~Thanks Steve

I do like how close the man in the blue suit is standing to the dynamite though.

August 21, 2013 at 10:44 a.m.
soakya said...

Put your money where your mouth is Rickyroo, when you do I'll believe your concerned with those who don't have coverage. 60 million of you liberals should be able to provide the coverage needed for the 30 million. Remember it's cheaper now. Until you do you're just another self proclaimed liberal defender of the helpless and poor who do nothing but talk. If you can't afford to pay the entire premium pay what you can.

August 21, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

3 absolutes you hear ad nauseam from the left about Republicans:

  1. You're all racist.
  2. You're all stupid.
  3. You're all "christian conservatives"
  4. The "religious right" AKA tea baggers, have taken over their party.

You southpaws should get a new agent. Or at least some new material

August 21, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.
librul said...

"Get some new material ...?" Go tell that to stupid, racist "christian conservatives" - they're in desperate need of the advice.

August 21, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Libby: I hear far more chatter from the left re "christian conservatives". Way more. Beyond obsession.

August 21, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

ObamaCare Train Wreck Updates

Sean Hannity July 31, 2013

Now for some of the latest updates on this disastrous bill. The architect of the bill, Max Baucus, got it exactly right: This is a train wreck. Here's how the train is crashing this week:

Obama's decision to delay the employer mandate will cost $12 billion and leave a million fewer Americans with employer-sponsored health insurance in 2014. (Reuters)

Remember when Sarah Palin was demonized for characterizing ObamaCare's Independent Payment Advisory Board as a death panel? Turns out that she was right, according to … Howard Dean? (Washington Examiner)

Members of Congress and their staffs are now complaining about having to sign up for ObamaCare. I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for them, considering many of them likely voted for the bill. (National Review)

The Georgia Insurance Commissioner sent a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services this week stating that health insurance rates in Georgia are rising by up to 198% under ObamaCare. (Washington Free Beacon)

An editorial in the Chicago Tribune reads: “The Affordable Care Act will give companies — and, surprisingly, their workers — a big incentive to embrace more part-time employment. That isn't necessarily a problem, except when it comes to paying the health-insurance bills for all those part-timers. Looks like that job will fall to you, taxpayers.” (Chicago Tribune)

In a report from CNBC: “Working more could ultimately mean thousands of dollars less for you under a quirk in the new health-care law going into effect this fall. This could prompt some people to cut back on their hours to avoid losing money.” ObamaCare disincentives work. That will do wonders for our economy. (CNBC)

If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it right? Small businesses may lose their ObamaCare tax credit if they keep certain health plans starting in 2014. (Weekly Standard)

Florida's insurance commissioner says that health insurance rates in his state will rise by 5 to 20 percent in the small-group market, and 30 to 40 percent in the individual market. (Palm Beach Post)

While the federal government refuses to bailout Detroit, looks like federal taxpayers will be stuck with some of the bill anyhow. In order to shirk costs, the city is looking to shift retirees into the new insurance markets that will soon be operating under ObamaCare. Who will be footing the bill for this shift to ObamaCare exchanges? You, the federal taxpayers. (Weekly Standard)

August 21, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ObamaCare: A heavy price for the country to shoulder, just to let Dems feel better about themselves.

August 21, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.
limric said...

HA ha hoo boy Plain Truth,

First; the, ”3 absolutes you hear ad nauseam from the left” you mention are 4 ya chowder head. And, B; it’s an Argumentum ad populum.

THUS: Number two would therefore seem to be accurate --- absolutely.

August 21, 2013 at 12:12 p.m.
caddy said...

SOAKYA said:

Perhaps some of those who believe health care is a basic human right can take the money out of their own pocket without the force of government and fund it out of the goodness of their loving liberal hearts. When they do this I will believe they are concerned about those who have no health insurance.

I would propose if you know someone who needs health insurance and you are concerned with their lack of health insurance you should purchase it for them. 60 million people voted for Obama so that's 2 liberal voters for every person needing health insurance. What good is your concern if you do nothing for them and are waiting for others to help? How many have suffered because you refused to act while waiting on the government for help. How's that for a proposal.

Well said, Soakya. Liberals are all for taking from one group of people, giving to another group: THEY deem worthy. It's simply a breaking of the 8th commandment.

August 21, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
caddy said...

Many Christians seem to miss the point, thinking that expropriation is wrong just because the wrong groups are in power, choosing the wrong causes for subsidy. This is where the horror stories are offered, and horrible they are: of subsidies to promote abortion, subsidies to photograph crucifixes in jars of urine, subsidies for all sorts of wickedness and blasphemy. But expropriation would be wrong even if each of its causes were good. Consider the following progression.

  • On a dark street, a man draws a knife and demands my money for drugs.

  • Instead of demanding my money for drugs, he demands it for the Church.

  • Instead of being alone, he is with a bishop of the Church who acts as bagman.

  • Instead of drawing a knife, he produces a policeman who says I must do as he says.

  • Instead of meeting me on the street, he mails me his demand as an official agent of the government.

If the first is theft, it is difficult to see why the other four are not also theft. Expropriation is wrong not because its causes are wrong, but because it is a violation of the Eighth Commandment: Thou shalt not steal.

But how, one may ask, can government steal? We live in a republic; aren't we therefore just taking from ourselves? No, not even in a republic are the rulers identical with the ruled, nor for that matter are the ruled identical with each other; if we were just taking from ourselves, there would be no need for the taking to be enforced. Then is it wrong for government to tax at all? No, government may certainly collect taxes for the support of its proper work; that work, however, is not the support of all good causes, but merely punishing wrongdoers and commending rightdoers. So Peter teaches in his first letter (2:13- 14).

If government were to end its subsidy of good causes, wouldn't these good causes suffer? Not necessarily; they might even thrive. Marvin Olasky has shown in The Tragedy of American Compassion that government subsidy itself can make good causes suffer, for in taking money by force one weakens both the means and the motive for people to give freely. Not only that, government usually distorts good causes in the act of taking them over. But what if the causes did depend on the proceeds of theft? Should we do evil, that good may come? When some people accused Paul of teaching this doctrine, he called the charge a slander. There is no such thing as a tame sin that will do only what we want it to, going quietly back into its bottle when we have finished with it. Sin is no more like that than God is. In politics, no less than in private life, it ramifies.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/BudziszewskiLiberalism.php

August 21, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Yawn. Hey, fbreaking news, Tooney is a lefty. Never saw that coming.

August 21, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
caddy said...

Excellent ! Soakya: "Put your money where your mouth is Rickyroo, when you do I'll believe your concerned with those who don't have coverage. 60 million of you liberals should be able to provide the coverage needed for the 30 million. Remember it's cheaper now. Until you do you're just another self proclaimed liberal defender of the helpless and poor who do nothing but talk. If you can't afford to pay the entire premium pay what you can."

If we love a man at all, the impression he produces on us must be vitally different to the impression produced by another man whom we love. To speak of having the same kind of regard for both is about as sensible as asking a man whether he prefers chrysanthemums or billiards. Christ did not love humanity; He never said He loved humanity; He loved men. Neither He nor anyone else can love humanity; it is like loving a gigantic centipede. And the reason that the Tolstoians can even endure to think of an equally distributed affection is that their love of humanity is a logical love, a love into which they are coerced by their own theories, a love which would be an insult to a tom-cat. G.K.Chesterton

August 21, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
soakya said...

great posts caddy.

August 21, 2013 at 12:55 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Hey Limmey: Just wanted to see if you were paying attention. Should have numbered them, then you leftists could have just posted #1, #2, etc, thus saving keystrokes.

August 21, 2013 at 12:58 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "alpo and hotdiggitydog, It amazes me that grown adults such as yourselves believe things like healthcare simply fall from the sky."

No one has suggested that health care should be free. But based on your comments, I'm betting that you've probably never had to worry about paying for every single solitary cent related to your health care, and it's quite likely you have no serious health issues.

I doubt there is a soul who participates in this forum who has the resources available to them to weather eight hospitalizations spanned over a one year period, bi-weekly visits to a specialist for two years, and a prescription regimen consisting of 17 prescriptions taken twice a day every single day for more than a year.

That is my reality, and I don't have the resources to deal with all that I have been billed by medical providers either. The insurance I did have under ObamaCare has been canceled and I will not see Medicare for several more months.

I'm in medical no-man's land for the second time in my life within a three year period.

Now understand, I don't blame anyone or anything for my circumstance. Until I hit the big five-o mark, I was as healthy as any one else could be. So don't presume that I am calling for a pity party. I'm just one of many who is trying to survive and dealing with the hand of cards that life has dealt them.

"alpo, you claim states can demand plans cost x amount of dollars. You sir are a crack head."

Am I really? Under the CURRENT health care system, states have insurance regulators that negotiate policy offerings and costs every single day.

"There isn't a company in business that will enter into any exchange and operate in the red."

Wait and see. For the first time in the history of this nation, the onus to remain profitable will dictate that insurers rebel against the system where medical providers are allowed to bill whatever they so desire and expect full payment.

(cont.)

August 21, 2013 at 1:03 p.m.
alprova said...

(Cont.)

"Speak to a Blue Cross exec and they will tell you they don't have any set figures to deliver as of today. Aetna is not participating! The idea of affordable health care is an oxymoron moron!"

Wait and see. As I pointed out, there is no shortage of chicken wing flappers, and along with that are some very stupid executives running businesses all across our land who are going to derail their companies because they have refused to even try to find a way to involve themselves in health care reform.

"The people who fall outside the income limits to qualify for Medicaid that will be paying for their own plan will elect to pay the penalty because they cannot afford the "Affordable Health Care Act." How ironic."

I think you'll find the opposite will be the case. The Government expects a great many people to do just as you claim to start with. However, over the next three years, all but about 6% are predicted to eventually purchase a policy on their own, or have one provided to them by employers.

Employers, who have currently made the choice to structure their workforce to exempt themselves from ObamaCare, after dealing with the headaches that comes with purposely limiting their business growth and maintaining a part-time workforce, will reverse those decisions, that is if they so desire to remain competitive and profitable.

"Well keep your nose up O'blablablamas business end and breath deep. That dumb a$$ gas you folks suck in sure keeps your IQ in the single digits!"

We shall see.

August 21, 2013 at 1:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Should have warned folks that ALPO is off today. We will be under withering fire from his Gatlin mouth.

August 21, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "So Ricky: Should we just jump on the unwieldy, burdensome, unworkable, destined to fail, cumbersome, muleheaded, disaster certain, bankrupting, destroyer of the 40 hr. work week, plan that comes along? Hmmm?"

I've got an idea that some of you would jump on in a second.

Why not arm every single healthy person in America and encourage them to shoot one sick person they encounter. While we're at it, why not have them shoot one poor person as well. Aim a bazooka at anyone in a wheel chair or who needs a walker to ambulate themselves.

Problem solved.

Always remember, the best way to judge a society is to observe their attitude and treatment of the poor, the disabled, or the sick.

Many people in this nation are failing that test, tremendously.

And shame on the lot of you.

August 21, 2013 at 1:13 p.m.
limric said...

He he Plain Truth,

”Hey Limmey: Just wanted to see if you were paying attention.”

Pffft....

Yea, OK Pee Wee.

August 21, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.
jesse said...

The Entire U.S.A. is headed for a Train Wreck and all you idealogs of what ever persuasion need to get ready!Blowin it out your arz on here ain't gonna change nuttin! Time to face the reality of whats commin!Maybe not in my lifetime BUT it's on the way!!!

August 21, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.
jesse said...

Alpo has the only Gatlin gun on the planet that runs on GAS!!

August 21, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
jesse said...

Limric's losin it!

When ya gotta stoop to quotin "Pee wee" ???

August 21, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lim: PeeWee would not have been my first go-to. But, hey, I'm tolerant.

August 21, 2013 at 1:53 p.m.
jesse said...

Maybe he needs to check out Lenny Bruce or maybe George Carlin??

Pee wee Herman ain't even a pimple on SIR HUNTERS (PHD) ass!!

August 21, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Hey limric,

Wasn't it Bill Clinton and his beautiful bride that he put in charge to create a national health care plan? I believe his 92 election campaign was rocketed to the front of the polls with this innovative idea.

Alpo,

Sorry to hear you are having such health problems. The financial end is another story. This is the choice many Americans will be facing soon. Go without and pay the penalty or choose a plan they can afford. The sad truth is the deductibles and copays are substantial in the 2 lower tier "Affordable Health Care Act" Obama plans and people will still have dental and prescription costs to deal with. Few will be able to afford the top tier plan and failing to pay hospitals and doctors money owed will still see people in bankruptcy court even with a health care insurance plan. They want their money and will do whatever is necessary to get it. When healthcare was eyed by corporate America years ago as a money maker the future could have only gone one way, and it did. Get well!!

August 21, 2013 at 2:21 p.m.
alprova said...

If you are a person who will need health care insurance come October, this article explains what the maximums you will pay for health care coverage.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/21/news/economy/obamacare-subsidies/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Calculate the subsidies you will be receiving towards your health care premiums;

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

August 21, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
jesse said...

Hey Al?Did you not state that you suffered from "cip"?

Now ya got kidney disease,diabetes,foot in mouth and GAS!!

I'm gonna have to think up some new stuff for ya to suffer from!

HOW about LUPUS? think ya could handle that???

August 21, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

hotdiggity said...

Well soakya just think what we could do with health care if the 76% of the American adult population who identify themselves as Christian all chipped in. It's hard to dispute that Jesus instructed his followers to help the weak, the sick, and the poor.

I guess you haven't heard that personal giving to charity is at the highest levels in this country and that Conservatives and especially religious ones give at the highest level. If you want to address public giving through government I guess you also haven’t heard of the trillions of dollars expended in the “war on poverty”.

August 21, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

The trillions of $$$$ spent on the war on poverty is classic waste loved by Dems.

August 21, 2013 at 3:27 p.m.
limric said...

Um excuse me jesse who lives in a van down by the river & Pee Wee PlainTruth Herman.

You both suggested Alprova’s mouth was not unlike a ‘Gatlin’ gun. Were you referring to the GATLING gun or Justin Gatlin the runner? - ‘Just seeing if I’m paying attention’? – or ”I meant to do that.”?

As I was once an apprentice of the infamous ‘Politeness Man,’ I have abstained (good taste necessitates such) from tussling in the mud of the river’s edge with such coarse malefacting miscreantic mis-spellers.

BUT KNOW THIS, I inherited the hanky of steel and am not afraid to use it in the future.

I’ll leave you with this piece of advice: When e’er you drink from a mug or cup, tis charming if your fingers up.

Thank you, and please adhere to the dress code from now on.

August 21, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "The financial end is another story. This is the choice many Americans will be facing soon. Go without and pay the penalty or choose a plan they can afford."

For those who have no current health care, you are quite correct. Most Americans with current health care coverage provided to them by their employers will continue to keep that coverage, UNLESS, ObamaCare rolls out plans that will save the employer money, which is predicted. In that case, employers might offer to pay a set portion toward the premium for each employee, and allow them to choose the insurance policy of their choice.

Think about that for a moment. YOU will possibly be allowed to decide the coverage you want, and depending on your income level, you will be allowed to control the price you pay from your own pocket for health care expenses, INCLUDING the insurance premium amount each month.

Do you have such choices as an employee now? I'm sure you don't. Chances are, if you have a family, you are paying more than you will if your employer decides to allow you to choose your own policy through an exchange.

And...in the future, if you change jobs, you will be allowed to keep that policy, negotiate with a prospective employer an amount to go toward your insurance premiums each pay period.

What could possibly be wrong with that scenario?

"The sad truth is the deductibles and copays are substantial in the 2 lower tier "Affordable Health Care Act" Obama plans and people will still have dental and prescription costs to deal with."

If you are single and make over $45,000 a year, you are correct, unless their employer offers such coverage as part of their benefit plan.

Those who make less than $45,000 a year, qualify for subsidies that will reduce co-pays as well as premiums.

Dental plans will most certainly be separated from medical plans, but there are plenty of them in existence now that offer mediocre to good coverage. I doubt that employers will stop offering them.

(cont)

August 21, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
alprova said...

(cont.)

"Few will be able to afford the top tier plan and failing to pay hospitals and doctors money owed will still see people in bankruptcy court even with a health care insurance plan."

You may disagree with what I am about to type, but the simple fact is that if a person who is single, who makes $45,000 a year, or a family earning more than $96,000 a year, cannot afford co-pays and to pay some of their medical expenses, then their priorities are completely screwed up.

Maybe in order to afford usual and customary medical expenses, they will have to drive a used car, instead of new. There are lots of decent places to live that do not take more than a fourth of one's income to rent or to pay a mortgage.

I've become an expert in living way below my means, in order to afford to pay for medical expenses. I also experienced a two-thirds income drop three years ago, that has only mederately rebounded.

I spend money for creature comforts only when I have some left over to spend. I charge nothing and haven't for years. Everything I owe is settled once a month.

My prescriptions alone cost me around $400 a month. My doctor visits are billed at $229 a pop. Labs? $16-$50 twice a month. The coverage I had until last month paid very little of these expenses.

I have paid what I could afford each month on my hospitalizations. I do not qualify for SSI or Medicaid, unless I want to stop reduce my earnings below $710 a month.

I'm not alone in being in this situation, and ObamaCare is not going to do a thing for someone in my circumstance either, to the best of my knowledge.

I'm destined for Medicare and due to my most serious medical condition, I am prevented from being able to purchase a Medigap policy. So the out-of-pocket expenses are still going to be very high for someone in my circumstance, that is unless I move to one of 12 states that forces insurers to issue Medigap coverage, regardless of any health care issues.

You will have lots of choices. Wait for them. They are coming.

August 21, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
alprova said...

limric, you're in rare form today.

Bravo!!!

August 21, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.
alprova said...

Folks, you can't purchase a policy yet, but there is lots of information at the site being set up to sell health care policies at;

http://www.heathcare.gov

August 21, 2013 at 4:19 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limric: WTF?

August 21, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

NSA Collected Thousands Of Emails, Other Communications By Americans With No Terror Ties...info just authorized for release by Clapper. Unwittingly collected, I'm sure

August 21, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Jesse, did you see what the semantician was saying about you?

August 21, 2013 at 5:25 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Wonder which of the OK 3 BHO will pick as "could be his son"? Crip 1, Crip2, or Crip3?

August 21, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.
jesse said...

LIMRIC was BORN in rare form!!

It's worth gittin him riled up just to see him get ALL verbal!!

August 21, 2013 at 5:38 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

carlB said...

Why does the Media not call what the Republicans have done or tried to do, terrorism and treason against the President Obama?

A very telling choice of words

After President Obama took office in January 2009 the Republican's actions have been of disavowal and despicable in the House and Senate to publicly announce their objective was to cause President Obama's failure.

Would you have approved if the Democrat Party had made it their objective to work to make Bush’s attempts, to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, a failure?

This action should definitely be called a terrorist and traitorous act against this Republic, the people and the Commander-in-Chief. What if the Republicans had been able to actually cause President Obama's failure?

Wasn’t there people on the Right that made those same claims and you lefties had a seizure. Sounds like you are joining that same mind set, that it is treason or terrorism to oppose the proposed polices of your political opponents?

August 21, 2013 at 7:34 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

And again,,,,

"There once was a man from Nantucket"

A sementician?? Interesting,,,,

Now Clay is really showing what an A$$ HAT he really is. Obama has RED LINES but Syria is gassing citizens with chemical weapons again. Egypt is on fire! We have a black man that appears he could be our presidents son if he had one, or perhaps the president as a young man, being tried for killing a 13 month old child and wounding his mother, the 2 black youths,,,,, from Oklahoma and the one they claim to be white but appears to have a black man in the lumber business somewhere in his lineage, {gasp} as they shouted,,, "How Racist" who killed an Australian student attending college here in the good ole USA, murdering the young man because they were bored, And all this fruit cake can draw is something irrelevant? Give him a prize!! He works so hard???

Move on people. There is nothing to see here!

August 21, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Alpo,

A single person earning $45,000 a year is well employed, {highly skilled or college educated with a useful degree} and most certainly has a proper health care plan provided by his/her employer with a modest contribution from the employee to be covered in sickness. The level of such a plan exceeds the requirement the government calls for so the AHCA does not apply to such people or employers. The family earning $96,000 is also enjoying the same work provided health care plan with a modest weekly contribution and reasonable deductible and co pays. ObamaCare? does not apply or affect these people.

You may disagree but the people the law claims to help CANNOT afford the plan and it has changed 0, squat, nill, nothing from their current situation. Sorry to hear you are in the same boat. Americans should not be in such a situation simply to provide for basic health care. As a fellow American my most sincere apologies.

Your earlier assumption involving my health insurance situation was incorrect. Having been self employed for 22 years of my adult life I paid for all the health care needs for my family including the birth of 2 children. The first was billed at @ $16,000, the second $19,000. If cash payment was made before admission they reduced the amount by over 50%. Both natural child birth without any complications. Anyone see a problem here? Corporate health care along with the rest of the machine is the problem and they have the money to fight any change politicians suggest. Just look what they did to Bill & Hill's attempt to level the medical playing field. SSSTTTTRRRRIIIIIIIIKKE THREE!!! Obamacare, The Affordable Health Care Act is a joke on the American working man and their families! It's just not very funny.

August 21, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.
alprova said...

Nothing to see, ya' say?

Gee, you were motivated to post THREE times today. You normally post maybe three times a week.

Syria and Egypt's problems are the problems of the citizens within those respective countries.

The two murders by black youths that you cite are indeed quite heinous.

Cartoonists are gifted with the power to show the humorous side of issues that most often than not, are political in nature. They rarely draw images surrounding the evils that exist in this world because there is nothing remotely funny about them.

There are plenty of forums around the net, hosted by news outlets, that welcome discussion about the evil black people, evil terrorists, and anything else on your mind.

But think about what you are asking. What possible CARTOON could be drawn about any of those topical events, that would not be horribly offensive to people, just because you want to discuss such issues?

You know that conversations take on a life of their own in here. If you've got something on your mind, by all means post it.

But don't ask Mr. Bennett to draw a cartoon about people dying at the hands of others and call him an ass hat for not doing so.

Mr. Bennett is a political cartoonist. To expect anything else from his drawing board is totally ridiculous.

August 21, 2013 at 8:26 p.m.
rick1 said...

You can keep your current insurance, until your boss reads the law.

15,000 UPS workers recently learned that the shipping giant is dropping coverage for husbands and wives who can get insurance from another employer.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/082113-668333-obamacare-delivers-bad-news-to-ups-workers-webhed-obamacare-delivers-bad-news-to-ups-workers.htm

August 21, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
gypsylady said...

Obamacare is what we have. I would prefer that we had elected officials who were capable of governing so that we could develop a health care system that worked for all Americans. Our elected officials are too busy pandering to their bases and too spineless to stand up to the "medical industrial complex" to do really good, thoughtful work. So, in the meantime, Obamacare is more useful than what we've had and I know many people who've already seen some benefit from the law. I'm trying to remember when we got to be such a negative, frightened, and paralyzed nation. As a kid I was taught that we were innovators and problem solvers. At some point we'll wake up and start doing again, instead of yapping slogans and pointing fingers. I have faith.

August 21, 2013 at 9:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo says "Mr. Bennett is a political cartoonist. To expect anything else from his drawing board is totally ridiculous." Bruce Tinsley is a political cartoonist too. But without the vicious streak

August 21, 2013 at 9:22 p.m.
Maximus said...

Librul, studies have shown that Republicans are much more LIBERAL when contributing their hard earned money to churches, charities, etc., while the leftist liberals FEEL that they are contributing to society with their taxes and would kick a Catholic nunn or Salvation Army volunteer off their porch in a Barry The Welfare Pimp minute. I pay my taxes AND build churches in Russia, give to my church and support great causes like the NRA and Wounded Warriors. I guess Librul you just take, take, take, pay your taxes on your meager income and "feel that you are contributing to the greater good". NOT! I guarantee that I personally feed more poor people than you could ever imagine by just paying your taxes to be used for Barry's Maaaaaartha's Vineyard vacations. (:

August 21, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Alpo, A single person earning $45,000 a year is well employed, {highly skilled or college educated with a useful degree} and most certainly has a proper health care plan provided by his/her employer with a modest contribution from the employee to be covered in sickness. The level of such a plan exceeds the requirement the government calls for so the AHCA does not apply to such people or employers."

It most certainly DOES apply if the employer opts to go to the exchanges for employer sponsored insurance plans after this coming October. Employers with 50 or more employees will receive the same expense deductions for premium payments employers make on behalf of an employee that they do now.

"The family earning $96,000 is also enjoying the same work provided health care plan with a modest weekly contribution and reasonable deductible and co pays. ObamaCare? does not apply or affect these people."

Again, all that depends on whether or not the employer they work for decides to dump his traditional insurance and allow the employee to seek coverage through the health care insurance exchange.

If you are an income earner above the subsidy threshold, there is something you can do RIGHT NOW to reduce your income taxes and reduce your health care premiums at the same time. Invest in an interest bearing Health Savings Account.

When choosing a health care plan with high deductibles, you are allowed to put away pre-tax dollars into an HSA to pay for out-of-pocket medical expenses, including premiums.

IRS rules allow an individual THIS YEAR, to put in up to $3,250, per year, or a family man to put in $6,450, per year, into these accounts, tax-free. HSA's are not "use it or lose it" accounts. You can keep the money in them forever and any interest earnings are tax-free as well. In 2014, the amounts you are allowed to put in those accounts rise to $3,300 and $6,550 respectively. If you are age 55 or older, you are allowed to put an additional $1,000 per year into an HSA.

Drop some pre-tax dollars into an account, which could reduce your income below the threshold, and you too could get a tax credit too, to help pay those premiums.

"You may disagree but the people the law claims to help CANNOT afford the plan and it has changed 0, squat, nill, nothing from their current situation."

You're not describing the people you are referring to. Anyone who earns more than $45,000 to $96,000 a year can most certainly afford health care insurance, unless they are living above their means.

(cont.)

August 21, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
alprova said...

(cont.)

"Sorry to hear you are in the same boat. Americans should not be in such a situation simply to provide for basic health care. As a fellow American my most sincere apologies."

My current health care costs are what is dragging me down, but if a private insurance policy were available to me, I would gladly pay for it. I am being forced onto Medicare, but I'm going to have to wait until December to qualify for it, unless my medical conditions degrade any further.

"Your earlier assumption involving my health insurance situation was incorrect. Having been self employed for 22 years of my adult life I paid for all the health care needs for my family including the birth of 2 children. The first was billed at @ $16,000, the second $19,000. If cash payment was made before admission they reduced the amount by over 50%. Both natural child birth without any complications. Anyone see a problem here?"

Yeah, I do. Why in the world would you not purchase health care insurance? You are endangering 22 years of wealth accumulation if someone in your household were to become terribly ill or injured.

"Corporate health care along with the rest of the machine is the problem and they have the money to fight any change politicians suggest."

Not this time. Their asses are all on the line to comply with reducing what is billed and what is paid.

Keep in mind that premiums are far cheaper than hospital bills. ObamaCare hands the insurers much more in the way of premiums, and with the vest majority of this nation insured, indigent care costs being paid now are going to be vastly reduced, thus driving the overall cost for providing medical care only one way, which is down.

It's not going to happen in one year. It's probably going to take another four years to see the results of ObamaCare.

It worked in Massachusetts, contrary to the RomneyCare deniers, and it will work on the national level too.

98% of those in Massachusetts are still insured and the citizens overwhelmingly favor the health care they have now versus the way is was.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/

August 21, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Bruce Tinsley is a political cartoonist too. But without the vicious streak"

Yet you spend every singled day of the week hanging out in here....

Hhhhmmmmm...Bruce Tinsley does one thing...a recurring comic strip. Not quite the same thing, is it?

August 21, 2013 at 9:53 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss, I'm beginning to see the picture you have been drawing. You have weathered your family's health care expenses without any insurance, and now that there is this impending thing called the mandate, it ticks you off.

While I certainly understand why you would feel that way, it's very hard to understand why in the world someone with the means to pay for insurance, would not do so.

You may be money ahead at this point, but your luck is going to run out sooner or later. In 2001, my wife was involved in a car crash that depleted our accounts of a half-million before it was all said and done, four years later.

It was worth every cent, because she is still here. I had insurance in place but the minute that the insurance company became aware of the serious nature of the claim, they canceled the policy and not a soul on Earth could do a thing about it. Believe me, I tried. Loophole, loophole, loophole.

I pay tremendous amounts for insurance with reputable insurers these days and even have a $2 million dollar umbrella policy to protect my business, my property and automobiles, and for one simple reason; The world is filled with litigious individuals who would empty your bank accounts overnight if they successfully sue you after skinning their knee on your property.

A man in this world with a little money is never safe from the scavengers who want some or all of it for themselves.

Case in point: On August 4, 2011, when making a right-hand turn on red, the vehicle in front of me started to move in front of me. I turned my head to the left to see if I was equally clear to go and let my foot off of the brake pedal. I bumped into the rear of the vehicle that had started to take off.

Long story short, no damage was found on either of the vehicles, and that was documented in a police report and in pictures I took at the scene, but that did not stop the other parties of five people from each suing me for $15,000 apiece, all claiming back and neck injuries.

It took a year, but I won in court, but two weeks later, they each refiled an appeal, and the insurance company gave two of them about $1,500 to settle the case, who were the only two to even try to document their injuries through a chiropractor. Not one of them ever went to a medical doctor. All claimed at the scene to be fine. People can be real pieces of sh!t sometimes.

I'm sure the ambulance chasers got most of it.

August 21, 2013 at 10:29 p.m.
alprova said...

Maximyth, you're going to go to hell for all the rotten lies you type into this forum.

Lowering yourself to brag on mythical contributions to the poor is worse than a snake slithering six feet underground.

"...I pay my taxes AND build churches in Russia, give to my church...I guarantee that I personally feed more poor people than you could ever imagine..."

It's not enough to lie about your being a high income earner. Now you have resorted to lying about giving to the poor.

You Sir are totally pathetic, and regardless of what the truth may be, God will indeed sort it all out, and I assure you, he won't be receptive to taking any bribes.

August 21, 2013 at 10:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I warned y'all earlier that Alpo was off today and would be vomiting keystrokes. He never disappoints.

August 21, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
alprova said...

PT seems to fashion himself as a modern day Times Free Press Paul Revere, who must warn everyone of my posting schedule.

"Alprova is coming!!!"

Keep up the good work, ye old curmudgeon.

August 21, 2013 at 10:57 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Clay stole my cartoon idea... That no good macaroni.... I said a week ago to do a train with obamacare on it.... Even I can be a cartoonist

August 21, 2013 at 11:11 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Rickaroo said...

This comment needs to wins some kind of blue ribbon for being the dumbest, most asinine statement anybody has said so far.

No ... But here is one that really qualifies:

And when the free market places one of the commodities essential to life so high in price that many people cannot afford it, that is when either the government has to step in or something about the system has to change so that people do not suffer or die because they cannot afford it.

Heath insurance should not be a commodity sold on the open market.

You do know that the overhead costs of private healthcare insurance are lower than government provided ones ... Don’t you?

August 21, 2013 at 11:13 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Anprov said,"5 weeks and 5 days. That's when we will have the plans, the prices, and the policy choices that will go into effect come January 1, 2014. The President and his fellow Democrats have a great deal riding on what is rolled out in a few weeks."

They do.... And alp renounces democrats... My husband's firm just switched to Hsa s..... Obamacare will be a disaster. Oh, don't forget to watch the stock market plummet in the first quarter of 2014 when obum stops printing money. Good thing I just rolled over retirement plans for safety

August 21, 2013 at 11:20 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said ...

Doctors who will abandon their practices and become ditch diggers. Why not arm every single healthy person in America and encourage them to shoot one sick person they encounter. While we're at it, why not have them shoot one poor person as well. Aim a bazooka at anyone in a wheel chair or who needs a walker to ambulate themselves. Problem solved.

Isn’t it refreshing to have posters that can always make a well reasoned and rational argument ... Right?

August 21, 2013 at 11:29 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

A man in this world with a little money is never safe from the scavengers who want some or all of it for themselves.

Alprova...do they not have a right to it if they have less than you regardless of the reason for the wealth disparity?

August 21, 2013 at 11:40 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

I'm betting that you've probably never had to worry about paying for every single solitary cent related to your health care, and it's quite likely you have no serious health issues.

I doubt there is a soul who participates in this forum who has the resources available to them to weather eight hospitalizations spanned over a one year period, bi-weekly visits to a specialist for two years, and a prescription regimen consisting of 17 prescriptions taken twice a day every single day for more than a year.

That is my reality, and I don't have the resources to deal with all that I have been billed by medical providers either. The insurance I did have under ObamaCare has been canceled and I will not see Medicare for several more months.

I'm in medical no-man's land for the second time in my life within a three year period.

Now understand, I don't blame anyone or anything for my circumstance. Until I hit the big five-o mark, I was as healthy as any one else could be. So don't presume that I am calling for a pity party. I'm just one of many who is trying to survive and dealing with the hand of cards that life has dealt them.

Why is it that no matter the subject you have had personal experiences involving it and usually with tear-jerker details?

Try 1994 to 2013 ... 18 hospitalizations ... 1 terminal condition ... 1 condition hopefully in remission ... $700,000 ... $160,000 out of pocket ... $250,000 = 2013 ... 3 back from the dead experiences ... best deal $54,000 down to $32,000 ... $250,000 projected procedure during next two years.

Does that one-up you? ... Do you believe any part of such a story? If not then why not since you expect us to accept all of your "war stories"?

August 21, 2013 at 11:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Ms. Lonely Hearts, I don't care what is "accepted" by you or not.

I post what I want to post for my own reasons.

If your choice is to never be human or to express humanity, go for it.

Your shtick is to troll this forum to pick on people you dislike. I get it. I and many more do our level best to completely ignore your inflammatory comments.

If you can't stand my personal comments, don't read them. Because the one thing I will not do, is to be bullied into becoming someone like yourself.

You're all about trolling for anything to jump on, that is if that person is on your personal sh!t list.

You write what you want, and I'm gonna do the same.

I'm pleased to learn how much my sharing a little humanity yanks your chain.

August 22, 2013 at 1:29 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

But alprova why no empathy for someone who would have the medical problems I listed above?

August 22, 2013 at 1:57 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Jt6gR3hM says "I guess you haven't heard that personal giving to charity is at the highest levels in this country and that Conservatives and especially religious ones give at the highest level".

Gotta love those three 100 foot "charity" monoliths erected recently here, huh? $700,000 of charity, right. Here are just a few people who appreciate the giving "at the highest level" by conservatives. They loves them some conservative donors.

Pastors Creflo Dollar, Benny Hine, Jim and Tammy Baker, Paula White, Robert Tilton, Joyce Meyer, etc. all appreciate the charity.

http://thehistoricalcontext.wordpress.com/2012/03/25/yet-another-televangelist-financial-scandal/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fXjZpPMmaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5zkk...

August 22, 2013 at 2:08 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Why do right-wingers always use fake data trying to back up their lies? Conservatives are ignoring the obvious. Something to notice is in the mention of "tithing... to the church." All the survey did was take IRS data "showing the value of charitable deductions claimed by Americans taxpayers." What the IRS may mean by charitable, and what most people think of as charitable, may not be the same thing.

For instance, a local fundamentalist church may spend the bulk of its resources degrading and attacking other faiths, insulting gay people and leading crusades to strip people of their civil liberties. They may never feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or comfort the afflicted. Yet in IRS terms they are a charity no matter how uncharitable they may be.

The report states that the IRS "does not provide data about the specific charities people supported." In other words, there is no data about who is feeding the poor.

Since donations to religious groups, even uncharitable ones, count as "charitable giving," then it is no surprise that religious people give more to charity. Simply put, the study shows that non-religious people don't donate to religion. This is neither earth shattering nor particularly informative. Nor is it surprising that those states populated by sects that push their members to tithe report higher "charitable" giving.

Donations to churches may get reused in a manner that would not be tax-deductible itself, as it would not be considered charitable. For instance, donations to the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization, are tax-deductible. Yet the organization gave almost $2 million to fund anti-gay campaigns by the National Organization for Marriage. If the "charitable" Catholics who gave that money had directly donated it to NOM, they would never have received a tax write-off.

However, if you donated to the Human Rights Campaign to counter campaigns funded by the Knights, that donation "can not be classified as tax deductible." Only one funds given to the churches in this political campaign were counted as charitable.

August 22, 2013 at 5:48 a.m.
fairmon said...

Rickaroo and others in different ways say.......

Heath insurance should not be a commodity sold on the open market. It is a right....

Other than a personal opinion what gives anyone a healthcare policy right? Where in the constitution will this be clearly stated? No one can be denied necessary medical care already, ask any hospital if they deny anyone care.

August 22, 2013 at 6:39 a.m.
fairmon said...

Rickaroo said....

The only people who could possibly afford to pay those premiums for other people are those among us who are the absolute richest. And even if anybody could afford to pay for others that is no solution. There are many things about living in today's world that no amount of philanthropic donations or charitable giving from churches or individuals will ever be able to cover. And when the free market places one of the commodities essential to life so high in price that many people cannot afford it, that is when the government has to step in.......

When the government steps in where does the government get the money to provide what those other sources cannot? Is this another step toward having every American be equally impoverished and dependent on a central government? It is not a myth that any government big enough to provide anything people desire can also take it away.

We will only know the impact when the PPAHCA is fully implemented. It is not good to postpone, exempt some, make exceptions. Congress should be insisting that the law be followed as written and in the time frame specified. The exception in how congress and their staff are affected is ludicrous, people should be raising holy hell about it but very little is heard.

August 22, 2013 at 6:55 a.m.
Maximus said...

Again, the anti-Christian, pagan liberal white trash are howling again. "I pay my taxes." The anti-Christian, liberal white trash version of charity. Plugs Delaware Gangster VP Joe Biden gives like what $500 to charity each year. Hillary and Bill contribute their worn our dirty under drawers to Goodwill. Dems soooooo in to social justice while death and poverty continue to rain down on black neighborhoods throughout America! Nice job with the welfare state Barry!

August 22, 2013 at 7:18 a.m.
ibshame said...

Kudos to the city council of Collegedale for providing benefits(which includes HEALTH CARE)to Detective Cooper and her wife. It's too bad the so-called "CHRISTIANS"(that a real joke) of her family's church saw fit to kick her family out of their church for merely supporting her. Nothing like a good ole fashion "CHRISTIAN" public shunning. Only thing missing are the stones. American Taliban at its best.

August 22, 2013 at 8:19 a.m.
alprova said...

"But alprova why no empathy for someone who would have the medical problems I listed above?"

I don't think you're going to find anyone who participates in this forum, outside of yourself, who would offer that I have no empathy for someone who is or has been ill.

I know exactly the game you are attempting to play, so let's short circuit that so that you can go back to trolling.

You see, this is where I am supposed to come back with, "Ma'am, it is you who lacks empathy."

Then you come back with, "So you ARE seeking sympathy," which is supposed to leave everyone with the impression that you've scored some imaginary point.

I do not post any personal details of my life to seek sympathy or condolences. I post them because they often are quite relevant to the issue being discussed.

I'm one of many that has or is dealing with a less than pleasant hand of cards. Be that as it may, I'm doing just fine and will live my life to the fullest until I am not able to.

And no one like yourself is going to make me ashamed or afraid to share any details that I feel are relevant to any discussion.

You see, unlike yourself, I am real, with all kinds of flaws and issues, but I have never felt any need to reinvent myself for one second to participate in any forum, unlike you and a couple of others.

You have more problems that I ever have.

August 22, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.
alprova said...

hotdiggity wrote: "Gotta love those three 100 foot "charity" monoliths erected recently here, huh? $700,000 of charity, right."

I have heard lots of surprising criticism coming from my right-wing friends about those crosses. They too have expressed exactly what you have above.

August 22, 2013 at 8:33 a.m.
ibshame said...

"alprova said... hotdiggity wrote: "Gotta love those three 100 foot "charity" monoliths erected recently here, huh? $700,000 of charity, right."

I have heard lots of surprising criticism coming from my right-wing friends about those crosses. They too have expressed exactly what you have above."

Makes one wonder how many "fishes and loaves of bread" could have been purchased to feed the poor with that $700,000?

August 22, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "No one can be denied necessary medical care already, ask any hospital if they deny anyone care."

You have no clue to the reality that contradicts that statement.

You offer the above from the perspective as one who has probably never been without health care insurance.

If someone comes into a hospital and their life is threatened, all the hospital is required to do is to stabilize the person, and they are allowed to discharge them to follow up with "their primary care physician."

Many people in this nation die because they do not receive the follow-up care that they are instructed to seek.

Most people know when they have been kicked to the curb and are reluctant to go back to an ER that has done that to them already.

Erlanger is the only hospital I am aware of, in our area, that will admit a patient and assist them in getting the care needed following their discharge, if they have no resources to obtain it on their own.

The rest will not keep an uninsured patient any longer than medically necessary. Once they are stable, whoosh...out the door.

August 22, 2013 at 9:10 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

This could be a radio show: Tooney and Alprova in the morning.

August 22, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "We will only know the impact when the PPAHCA is fully implemented. It is not good to postpone, exempt some, make exceptions."

They are all temporary.

"Congress should be insisting that the law be followed as written and in the time frame specified."

Oh...there are some who are raising cain, for all the good it will do. No one expected things to go off without some rough patches. ObamaCare represents the first step in a complete overhaul of this entire nation's health care system.

"The exception in how congress and their staff are affected is ludicrous, people should be raising holy hell about it but very little is heard."

Do you know why that is? It's because there are no exceptions taking place for Congress and their staff. I pointed this out to you last week, and you're still whining about it.

The only thing fixed was to continue with the 75% Federal contribution to the health care premiums for Congressional staff, that was not included in the original bill.

Every Federal employee, including the President himself, will have to choose a health care policy from the Federal health care insurance exchange.

The government offers federal employees the benefit of augmenting their health care insurance premiums, just like many private employers will be doing for their employees after January 1, 2014.

No federal employee is exempt from ObamaCare. None.

August 22, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.
alprova said...

ibshame wrote: "Kudos to the city council of Collegedale for providing benefits(which includes HEALTH CARE)to Detective Cooper and her wife."

Yes indeed. Shocking that they did it, but it was the right thing to do.

"It's too bad the so-called "CHRISTIANS"(that a real joke) of her family's church saw fit to kick her family out of their church for merely supporting her."

That must be the same church that "conservative" attends. I was disgusted when I read that story.

"Nothing like a good ole fashion "CHRISTIAN" public shunning."

The more things change, the more some things stay the same.

"Only thing missing are the stones. American Taliban at its best."

Ouch!!!

August 22, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

You should stop now, alpo. You're beginning to make an ass of yourself. again.

August 22, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

libshame says "Only thing missing are the stones. American Taliban at its best." you best hope not, darlin

August 22, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

He was a healer, a provider of universal health care, a man of compassion who treated those with preexisting medical conditions.

He promoted empathy and support for the poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged.

He implored his followers to follow his example to care for your fellow man. He was Christ.

One would think that with 76% of the adult population claiming to be Christian there would be a groundswell of support from them for affordable health care or better yet, universal health care.

Instead I see Christian conservatives typically embrace a philosophy of having no responsibility towards their fellow man.

I have to wonder if some christian conservatives even read their Bible and the teachings of the person they worship.

Strange indeed.

August 22, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.
degage said...

Al, Why has your insurance under Obamacare been canceled? I thought they couldn't do that.

Second, haven't seen anything from you on the Australian yet. Seems the 15 year old had tweeted he hates white folks. Looks like his hatred of whites may have been a reason for the shooting not that they were just bored.

August 22, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Mrs. Gage: Hate crimes only work one-way.

August 22, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
ibshame said...

"PlainTruth said... libshame says "Only thing missing are the stones. American Taliban at its best." you best hope not, darlin"

I best hope not? No anyone who does more than just mouth about indivdual freedom better hope not.

August 22, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

I guess so, Libshame. Anyone with the freedom to mouth off at anything remotely religious. Like you, libby.

August 22, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
TheCommander said...

hotdiggity, It seems like a Christian has NO responsibilities and is especially commanded in the Bible NOT to give out of any sense of obligation. Anything they do, is done by their own (voluntary) choice.

When you call for responsibilities, you are championing the philosophy of communitarianism that is poisoning our world today.

Our president who is clearly a communitarian provides an example. You know it when he says things like:

"With Rights, come responsibilities" or this is "no longer a go it alone society"

When did we get a Bill of Responsibilities? How can communitarians decide for us what kind of a society is it going to be? They can only enforce that through tyranny. Isn't it better when people act out of their own free will rather than by force or even coercion by reminding them of their so-called responsibilities?

August 22, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^ Commander, ask Alpo.

August 22, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.
joepulitzer said...

HISTORY LESSON: LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1940707/pg1

August 22, 2013 at 2:25 p.m.
jesse said...

WHY is it the LONGER the words GET the DUMBER i get?? WTF is a "communitarian??"Sounds like somethin LIMRIC would come up with!!

August 22, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.
ibshame said...

"TheCommander said... hotdiggity, It seems like a Christian has NO responsibilities and is especially commanded in the Bible NOT to give out of any sense of obligation. Anything they do, is done by their own (voluntary) choice. When you call for responsibilities, you are championing the philosophy of communitarianism that is poisoning our world today."

So you are saying (if I read correctly) the Bible does not advocate taking responsibility for the poor, the hungry, the less fortunate. What a crock of BS if I ever read one!! LMAO

August 22, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.
soakya said...

That was funny joepulitzer.

August 22, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.
ibshame said...

"PlainTruth said... I guess so, Libshame. Anyone with the freedom to mouth off at anything remotely religious. Like you, libby"

The only thing REMOTELY RELIGIOUS about what that church did to Detective Cooper's family is the fact it was done from the pulpit of a church. They certainly had no right to demand a public humiliation of her family for offering her support.

August 22, 2013 at 3 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Jesse, I did not know what it was until about a year ago either. I am no expert. Start with Niki Raapana. It is worth the time. I believe it is the philosophy that is bullying our entire society today regardless of party or supposed political views.

ibshame, I know I'm being a bit dogmatic to emphasize a point. I know the Bible is clear as to what would please God: It is the very things you listed above in response to me. I am strictly speaking about the MOTIVATION to actually do them. The biblical motivation always emphasizes voluntary action as opposed to force or rules to make a person act.

BTW, do you do them yourself?

August 22, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
TheCommander said...

If anyone thinks I am crazy about labeling Barack a Communitarian, please watch the link I posted above and then watch the video of Katrina Vanden Heuvel calling him a communitarian.

August 22, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "No one can be denied necessary medical care already, ask any hospital if they deny anyone care."

You have no clue to the reality that contradicts that statement.

You offer the above from the perspective as one who has probably never been without health care insurance.

If someone comes into a hospital and their life is threatened, all the hospital is required to do is to stabilize the person, and they are allowed to discharge them to follow up with "their primary care physician."

Many people in this nation die because they do not receive the follow-up care that they are instructed to seek.

Most people know when they have been kicked to the curb and are reluctant to go back to an ER that has done that to them already.

Erlanger is the only hospital I am aware of, in our area, that will admit a patient and assist them in getting the care needed following their discharge, if they have no resources to obtain it on their own.

The rest will not keep an uninsured patient any longer than medically necessary (?). Once they are stable, whoosh...out the door.

alprova, I know how dedicated, to the truth, you are and would not want to be known for misleading (lying?) to your fellow posters. Here are a few items you might want to consider.

When a hospital, that receives federal funds, can discharge someone from their facility and does not have insurance.


The patient is conscious, alert, and oriented.

The cause of all symptoms reported by the patient or representative, and all potentially life-threatening, limb-threatening, or organ-threatening symptoms discovered by hospital staff, has been ascertained to the best of the hospital's ability.

Any conditions that are immediately life-threatening, limb-threatening, or organ-threatening have been treated to the best of the hospital's ability to ensure the patient does not need further inpatient care.

The patient is able to care for himself or herself, with or without special equipment, which if needed, must be provided.

All patients have EMTALA rights equally, regardless of age, race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, residence, citizenship, or legal status. If patient's status is found to be illegal, hospitals may not discharge a patient prior to completion of care.

Overloaded hospitals may not discharge a patient unable to pay to make room for a patient who is able to pay or is otherwise viewed by society as a more valued citizen. If the emergency room is overloaded, patients must be treated in an order based on their determined medical needs, not their ability to pay.

Hospitals may not deny or provide substandard services to a patient who already has outstanding debt to the hospital, and may not withhold the patient's belongings, records, or other required services until the patient pays.

(cont)

August 22, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

(cont)

Patients cannot face criminal prosecution for failure to pay, even if the patient came to the hospital aware of inability to pay.

A hospital cannot delay treatment while determining whether someone can pay or is insured but that does not mean they are completely forbidden from asking or running a credit check.

Hospitals are prohibited from discriminating against or providing substandard care to those who appear impoverished or homeless, are not well-dressed or groomed, or exhibit signs of mental illness or intoxication.

Hospitals are required to sufficiently feed patients unable to pay at a level equal to those able to pay, while meeting all physician-ordered dietary restrictions.

The hospital is required to refer the patient to a clinic or tax-funded or private program that enables the patient to pay for these services, and to which the patient has reasonable access. Hospitals must reasonably assist patients as necessary to obtain these services by providing information the patient requests.

August 22, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

The only thing fixed was to continue with the 75% Federal contribution to the health care premiums for Congressional staff, that was not included in the original bill.

It was not included in the original bill which tells you a lot about how thoroughly it was reviewed by those voting. Also, those with similar incomes will not be eligible for a supplement, which this appears to be. This amounts to about $11,000 per person per year that will fall to tax payers that could be applicable to those not able to afford healthcare. What about the rhetoric of we are all in this together and all will have to sacrifice? Why are there so many delays of key items? It is like a pregnancy with no choice to abort once we are impregnated. It could even be compared to an STD with no cure. Let's hope not but once this plays out you may think your black cloud is still there.

August 22, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.
anticorp said...

soakya said... "believe health care is a basic human right - take the money out of their own pocket...and fund it....I will believe they are concerned about those who have no health insurance."

Do you feel the same about Medicare & SSI? All are paid for from the earnings of workers, just as ACA health care. There is no difference. Would you defund Medicare and SSI?

Here is why you haters need to pull you heads out of your rectums. Everyone needs and gets health care and it is less expensive for the nation, as proven worldwide, to be paid for via universal health care.

More important, we have a loss of wealth CRISIS for the working class. Universal health care frees workers from slave wages to an employer. They will be free to seek honest fair wages without fear of no health care. ((((CORPORATIONS))) will now have to pay wages, not some fake benefit they can manipulate to save and imprison workers.

This is a "FREEDOM" issue Righties, and it will make us just little bit more competitive. Single Payer would put America on a level playing field with our competitors.

August 22, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

Churches have better things to spend their money on than helping the poor without healthcare, like $700,000 crosses.

hotdiggity said...

Gotta love those three 100 foot "charity" monoliths erected recently here, huh? $700,000 of charity, right.

alprova said...

I have heard lots of surprising criticism coming from my right-wing friends about those crosses. They too have expressed exactly what you have above.

ibshame said...

Makes one wonder how many "fishes and loaves of bread" could have been purchased to feed the poor with that $700,000?

The Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial was funded primarily by the Black fraternity Alpha Phi Alpha through the Washington, D.C. Martin Luther King, Jr. National Memorial Project Foundation. The total cost is estimated at $120 million with $10 million provided by the United States Congress. The foundation had to pay various fees to the King family's Intellectual Properties Management Inc., including a management fee of $71,700 and $800,000 licensing deal with the foundation for the use of King's words and image in fundraising materials for the memorial. The monument was made in China with a Chinese sculptor, labor, and materials at the displeasure of many in the Black community.

  • Source Wiki:

How much good could have been done, with those funds, in a segment of our population that desperately needs it? Also wasn’t it nice that the King family was so helpful?

August 22, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Antoinette Tuff a true American hero. I hope that her notoriety doesn’t lead to her discomfort as so many do, that her actions are rightly cheered and we move on with only that thought.

August 22, 2013 at 5:31 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anticorp said...

Would you defund Medicare and SSI?

Defunding them may not be the answer but they along with Medicaid, public employee retirement funding and Social Security are a financial cancer that is eating away at the heart of our economy. If they are not reigned in and restructured they will be the ruin of our economy and on top of this you want to pile government paid universal health care.

Here is why you haters need to pull you heads out of your rectums (how original you are). Everyone needs and gets health care and it is less expensive for the nation, as proven worldwide, to be paid for via universal health care.

How would public paid health care be less expensive that private paid when the latter has lower overhead costs even including profits?

More important, we have a loss of wealth CRISIS for the working class.

Aren’t homes the major depository of wealth for the working class and the bursting of the housing bubble wiped out the greatest amount of their wealth? That it has little to do with income disparity or medical care insurance? Wasn’t the housing bubble caused by the over-reach and malfeasance of big government in the housing and finance industries?

Universal health care frees workers from slave wages to an employer. They will be free to seek honest fair wages without fear of no health care. ((((CORPORATIONS))) will now have to pay wages, not some fake benefit they can manipulate to save and imprison workers.

I know what you mean as labor unions have been trying for decades to free their members from this fake benefit. Then they would receive their fair wages and pay their rightful taxes on that extra pay benefit. Fair is fair ... isn’t it?

August 22, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.
fairmon said...

anticorp said...

Would you defund Medicare and SSI?

Yes, Yes and yes. Those Ponzi schemes are abused and not well managed. There are much better ways without governments skimming off a lot for themselves and the overhead they create. Those too ignorant to take care of themselves and those truly disabled and unable could be provided for better.

August 22, 2013 at 6:16 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "No one can be denied necessary medical care already, ask any hospital if they deny anyone care."

You have no clue to the reality that contradicts that statement.

I won't bother to post what hospitals are required to do and what they in fact do. I am familiar and know people that received the same care as those able to pay. Those able to pay and could have obtained coverage should have to pay. I am convinced, contrary to your belief, that government involvement is what has driven cost up and distorted the cost with dictated rates and negotiated rates.

August 22, 2013 at 6:23 p.m.
soakya said...

anticorp, let me say first of all I probably am more anticorp than you dream about being. I believe the worker can take better care of himself than the government can and cheaper.

No everyone doesn't need healthcare insurance. I'm 49 and just recently got it after a couple decades without it. I wouldn't have got it now if my wife hadn't switch jobs and it ended up being about the same price as what she was paying for herself at her old job.

I can't believe you have the nerve to compare the wages of today's workers to the wages the slaves received.

You don't like the wages you're earning, do something about besides crying to the government to hold your hand and to be your daddy.

You might want to check the location of your own head.

August 22, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

And because they have health care insurance, and everything in their world is a-okay at the moment, they haver not an ounce of concern for people who number one, do not have access to health care insurance, or number two, who cannot afford health care insurance.

You on the other hand are different in that we can hear the milk of human kindness sloshing around inside of you when you walk about. That or maybe it’s just an excessive quantity of bile.

August 22, 2013 at 7:34 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

librul said...

And, Max, right wingers live in a dense mental fog that blinds them to the fact that not everyone, despite their best efforts, is sitting on a mountain of cash; not everyone has found success through "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" over and over again; not everyone enjoys the benefits of a 'freeeway to success' paved by privilege bought by grandpa's bank account and a prep school education.

Victimization .... It’s what’s for LWNJ political dogma.

August 22, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Jt said ..."But alprova why no empathy for someone who would have the medical problems I listed above?"

I don't think you're going to find anyone who participates in this forum, outside of yourself, who would offer that I have no empathy for someone who is or has been ill.

If so then why was the below your response when I posted the claimed medical history of someone who is suffering through bad health?


Ms. Lonely Hearts, I don't care what is "accepted" by you or not.

I post what I want to post for my own reasons.

If you can't stand my personal comments, don't read them.

You're all about trolling for anything to jump on, that is if that person is on your personal sh!t list.

You write what you want, and I'm gonna do the same.

You see, this is where I am supposed to come back with, "Ma'am, it is you who lacks empathy”

Then you come back with, "So you ARE seeking sympathy," which is supposed to leave everyone with the impression that you've scored some imaginary point (Or that you are having imaginary conversations? - Jt).

I do not post any personal details of my life to seek sympathy or condolences. I post them because they often are quite relevant to the issue being discussed.

I'm one of many that has or is dealing with a less than pleasant hand of cards. Be that as it may, I'm doing just fine and will live my life to the fullest until I am not able to.

You see, unlike yourself, I am real, with all kinds of flaws and issues, but I have never felt any need to reinvent myself for one second to participate in any forum, unlike you and a couple of others.

You have more problems that I ever have.


Lots of empathy there ... Right?

August 22, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

TheCommander says.."hotdiggity, It seems like a Christian has NO responsibilities.....

Seriously, you are saying the Bible does not instruct believers to help the "poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged" as I posted?

Seriously?

"Feed the hungry! Help those in trouble! Then your light will shine out from the darkness, and the darkness around you shall be as bright as day. And the Lord will guide you continually, and satisfy you with all good things, and keep you healthy too; and you will be like a well-watered garden, like an ever-flowing spring. Isaiah 58:10-11

And the crowds asked [John the Baptist], "What then should we do?" In reply he said to them, "Whoever has two coats must share with anyone who has none; and whoever has food must do likewise. Luke 3:10-11

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:35

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? 1 John 3:17

If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land. Deuteronomy 15 7-11

Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy. Proverbs 31 8-9

I could list a dozen more. Amazing that you would suggest that if a person calls himself a Christian he has no responsibility to follow the instructions of the Bible.

I will not even go into the fact that Jesus set the classic examples for charity for his followers to (supposedly) emulate.

Jeez, do you fundies even read, let alone understand, the teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ?

August 22, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.
soakya said...

hotdiggity, we read the same comments and I walk away thinking the thecommander is saying your motivation behind helping others should not be out of a sense of obligation but out of love for others. If one is helping the poor only out of a sense of obligation, they may help but they won't be happy about and they won't be helping the poor for very long.

August 22, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
tifosi said...

The Tea Party and Al Qaeda. A match made in hell.

America's greatest threats to Democracy and freedom.

August 22, 2013 at 9:08 p.m.
degage said...

tifosi, you are full of BS. Your hate is noted by all even some libs.

August 22, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.
soakya said...

tifosi, Could you explain how the tea party is America's greatest threats to freedom.

August 22, 2013 at 9:24 p.m.
tifosi said...

They are the party of white supremacy and intolerance.

August 22, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy, in a long list if stupid posts, your last one is champ. ^^^

August 22, 2013 at 9:42 p.m.
tifosi said...

When you make the argument that the South was angry with the North for "invading" its "homeland," Osama bin Laden has said the same about U.S. soldiers being on Arab soil. He has objected to our bases in Saudi Arabia, and that's one of the reasons he has launched his jihad against us. Is there really that much of a difference between him and the Confederates? Same language; same cause; same effect.

If a Confederate soldier was merely doing his job in defending his homeland, honor and heritage, what are we to say about young Muslim radicals who say the exact same thing as their rationale for strapping bombs on their bodies and blowing up cafes and buildings?

The fundamental problem with extremism is that when you're on the side that is fanatical, all of your actions make sense to you, and you are fluent in trying to justify every action. Every position of those you oppose is a personal affront that calls for you to do what you think is necessary to protect yourself and your family.

Just as radical Muslims have a warped sense of religion, Confederate supporters have a delusional view of what is honorable. The terrorists are willing to kill their own to prove their point, and the Confederates were just as willing in the Civil War to take up arms against their fellow Americans to justify their point.

August 22, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Could it be that Easy is slowly oozing out of his sewer?

August 22, 2013 at 9:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

Southern trees bear strange fruit, Blood on the leaves and blood at the root, Black body swinging in the Southern breeze, Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant South, The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth, Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh, Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here is fruit for the crows to pluck, For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck, For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop, Here is a strange and bitter crop.

August 22, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
tifosi said...

The truth hurts.

August 22, 2013 at 9:47 p.m.
tifosi said...

What party would James Byrd Jr. supported???

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/21/white-supremacist-gang-member-executed-for-dragging-texas-man/

Looks like a Tea Partier to me.

August 22, 2013 at 9:51 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy: Delta is ready when you are, pal.

August 22, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.
rick1 said...

tifosi, if you are not capable of using your own words and thoughts and have to steal someone else work then at least give credit to the person you stole it from.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/11/martin.confederate.extremist/index.html

And your 9:46pm post is from the song Strange Fruit.

August 22, 2013 at 10 p.m.
fairmon said...

Section 1312 of the Affordable Care Act reads as follows: (D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.- (i) REQUIREMENT.-Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are- (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act.

They aren't eligible for a subsidy but 75% of the cost will be paid for them. I would like to have an amendment like that.

August 23, 2013 at 12:53 a.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.