published Wednesday, August 28th, 2013

Syria

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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fairmon said...

Draw a line and threaten anyone stepping over it and you better be prepared to do what you threaten or appear to be all talk. Commander, this is a revolting development you have gotten us into with your alligator mouth and hummingbird arse. Why a red line without a plan in hand and ready if breached? Successful businesses have a five and ten year plan, government appears to have what is happening now reactive planning guided by the latest polls. To police and feed the world while spreading the wealth at home will require about 2X current tax and other revenue plus many, many more government employees. How can one person find so many corners in an oval office?

August 28, 2013 at 5:31 a.m.
joneses said...

There is not one country or leader of a country that has respect for obama. Putin thinks like the intelligent Americans that obama is full of sh!t and is only a talking suit. Asad used chemical weapons twice and obama's response was "we are monitoring the situation". That is pretty much obama's response to everything. Even kerry had harsher words for Syria than obama. More proof obama is a puss and our enemies know it.

August 28, 2013 at 5:58 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

Drill for oil and gas over here, and keep the troops at home for once. Let's invade Mexico instead, and solve the drug cartel problem. That will be good training for Detroit, and then Chattanooga.

House to house, confiscating illegal weapons; no prosecutions from the illegal searches, just confiscation. That way, the criminals get the same treatment as law-abiding people.

August 28, 2013 at 6:05 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

Get ready, guys, alkarma is frothing at the mouth and getting reading to strike like a three-legged Rottweiler. After he's through hugging all the trees in his yard and praying to Maitreya, of course.

August 28, 2013 at 6:21 a.m.
caddy said...

Where are ALL the liberal war Haters now ?

August 28, 2013 at 6:23 a.m.
caddy said...

.

August 28, 2013 at 6:24 a.m.
conservative said...

Well caddy,

Maybe "The answer is blowing in the wind."

There is war here every day in the war against truth from many Liberals.

August 28, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.
joneses said...

Please do not worry liberals about the innocent civilians obama will kill with an air strike in Syria as he is doing nothing to address the black on black crime that is killing America's black youth. Uh oh, I brought attention to an issue that is plaguing the black inner city communities and our country so I expect I will be labeled a racist again by the short sighted, hide your head in the sand liberals.

August 28, 2013 at 7:30 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

So, joneses -what is your proposal to deal with black on black violence? Airstrikes?

conservative, the Liar for Jesus who demands personal information on forums, declares liberals at war with the TROOTH.(TM)

August 28, 2013 at 7:37 a.m.
conservative said...

I demanded nothing from you Ike, that is a lie.

I am now going to flag you.

August 28, 2013 at 7:50 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Bring it on, conservative. The thread and comments are there for everyone to see.

August 28, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.
conservative said...

Did I do it right?

August 28, 2013 at 7:57 a.m.
Walden said...

It's Bush's fault, and don't you forget it!

August 28, 2013 at 8:57 a.m.
ibshame said...

"Walden said... It's Bush's fault, and don't you forget it"

It is Bush's fault to a great degree. Neo-cons and Bush sheeple don't get to slither their way out of the mess they created when they decided to invade Iraq. A country that had zilch to do with the attack on 9/11 but left over 4000 U.S. soldiers to come home in body bags and maimed thousands of others for life. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of civilians that were killed and maimed in Iraq due to the treachery of Bush and his neo-con scumbags.

If President Obama didn't do anything with regards to Syria, he would be criticized by the neo-cons, teabaggers, and right wing nut jobs and if he does do something he will be criticized, so as the saying goes "he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't."

August 28, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
soakya said...

ibshame,

and no matter what Obama does his MSNBC educated clueless, gutless, coward, sheep will praise him.

August 28, 2013 at 10:11 a.m.
jesse said...

What soakya said!!!^^^

August 28, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Question: IF, as Baghdad Jay Carney said, regime change is NOT the objective, what the hell is the sense in lobbing missiles? It's ALL for show. We have a genuinely lousy president.

August 28, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "There is not one country or leader of a country that has respect for obama. Putin thinks like the intelligent Americans that obama is full of sh!t and is only a talking suit."

You might have a point, if it were not for the fact that Putin does not want the United States to take military action against the Syrian Government because he is claiming that the Syrian Rebels are the ones who deployed chemical weapons.

August 28, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.
alprova said...

Arm chair warriors are the worst. Never mind that they, themselves and more than likely anyone they love will not be be knee deep in whatever goes down.

It's cyber lock and load time!!!

Idiots.

August 28, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPY: Maybe the rebels (laced with AQ) did deploy the gas. Gulf of Tonkin redux?

August 28, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.
ibshame said...

"soakya said... ibshame, and no matter what Obama does his MSNBC educated clueless, gutless, coward, sheep will praise him."

"PlainTruth said... Question: IF, as Baghdad Jay Carney said, regime change is NOT the objective, what the hell is the sense in lobbing missiles? It's ALL for show. We have a genuinely lousy president."

And no matter what President Obama does or doesn't do gutless, clueless, ignorant, uneducated right wing sheeple will always find fault with him because they can't accept the fact he is the legitimately elected President and he's beat them not once but twice.

As far as lousy presidents go, the day President Obama reaches the threshold of lousiness exhibited by George W. Bush then he will truly be a lousy President. Unfortunately for his detractors he has not yet reached that point and probably never will.

As for his objective in lobbing missiles, one could say had George W. Bush and his neo-con scumbags lobbed missiles for "show" instead of sending troops to die in their quest to nation build, this country would have been a helluva lot better off. At the very least over 4000 U.S. soldiers might still be alive instead of in their graves for nothing.

August 28, 2013 at 11:10 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "Please do not worry liberals about the innocent civilians obama will kill with an air strike in Syria as he is doing nothing to address the black on black crime that is killing America's black youth."

1.) What action from President Obama would satisfy you, that you believe would do a thing about black on black crime?

2.) What action from any prior President has done a damn thing to inhibit any criminal activity, especially in regard to black on black crime?

3.) Are you under some impression that because the President identifies himself as a black man, that he has some magical amount of clout or influence with those hailing from the Ghettos across America, and they worship him like a God?

August 28, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "ALPY: Maybe the rebels (laced with AQ) did deploy the gas. Gulf of Tonkin redux?"

If you believe that, or even just suspect it, then why in the world would you support a United States attack on the Syrian Government?

You see, if you were consistent, and a fence sitter as you like to claim, you might find appreciation for the fact that the current President is taking the time to make a careful and measured decision before ordering our military to take action without all the facts being carefully established FIRST.

August 28, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

lu said "And no matter what President Obama does or doesn't do gutless, clueless, ignorant, uneducated right wing sheeple will always find fault with him because they can't accept the fact he is the legitimately elected President and he's beat them not once but twice." So Lu...2 questions...1. do you include all C's in that grouping? 2. Will questions re BHO's competency ALWAYS be deflected into comparisons to Dubya?

August 28, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Sorry, that was libshame, not Lu. My bad.

August 28, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I demanded nothing from you Ike, that is a lie."

You Sir are the liar. Elsewhere on this site, you demanded an answer from lkeithlu to a totally off-the-wall personal question, which I will not repeat here, at the posting times below.

August 27, 2013 at 7:39 a.m

August 27, 2013 at 8:03 a.m

August 27, 2013 at 8:24 a.m

August 27, 2013 at 8:47 a.m

August 27, 2013 at 9:04 a.m

August 27, 2013 at 9:41 a.m

August 28, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Finally, a good cartoon. Obama doesn't have to prove his and Crazy Joe's manhood by stepping into that cesspool again. Only thing our incolvementr will be good for is the pockets of big oil, which will jack gas prices because of this "crisis."

August 28, 2013 at 11:49 a.m.
limric said...

Is the whole of American government filled with DICK (war criminal) Cheney versions of the Marx Brothers?

The whole region is a giant pack of firecrackers, and Obama seems intent on stomping on it with bare feet. If any of you who think that our involvement/instigation of another mid-east war isn’t likely, y’all better think again. And although ‘Obushma’ will try to justify ‘new & improved’ war with America’s patented, but phony baloney morality, he’ll hide behind a Bush Co-like coalition of Europe, Arab and Israeli allies. The U.S. though will lead this coalition of empire while pushing an already unstable region into full-fledged chaos, which could very well have international ramifications. I can hear the EIC (Enemy Industrial Complex) already counting their gold. Cha -ching bitches!

Not that it matters much but shouldn’t we at least ask ourselves, how would a gas attack on civilians possibly benefit the Syrian government? It wouldn’t! BUT, it would certainly benefit the fanatical Islamic rebels WE have been supporting; that have been proven to massacre entire villages, are al-Qaeda loyalists that are hell bent on turning Syria into a Taliban like state. Wouldn’t it!?!?

Another thing we need to ask ourselves. Does anyone believe the Syrians will just sit in their lawn chairs and say “OH GEE WIZ” and do nothing as Obushma’s cruise missiles of justice start blowing stuff up, or nod in approval of Secretary of State Munster’s good intentions that American bombs of morality will only be aimed at missile launchers, artillery emplacements --- while accidentally hitting suspicious looking picnics, weddings, funerals, or anyone wearing leather sandals. Whoopsies, our bad!

Not bloody likely.

Question: Does anyone approve of American intervention? If yes, why?

August 28, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Surgical strike? Nope. Scheduled surgery. Assad will be notified of where not to be.

August 28, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Draw a line and threaten anyone stepping over it and you better be prepared to do what you threaten or appear to be all talk."

So, by that, I assume that in your mind, the better course of action would have been for the President to have said nothing when the accusations came up months ago to the deployment of chemical weapons by the Government of Syria?

"Commander, this is a revolting development you have gotten us into with your alligator mouth and hummingbird arse. Why a red line without a plan in hand and ready if breached?"

Where is the proof that there is not a plan in place? Unlike some Presidents in the past, he is not going to involve us into yet another undeclared military excursion without weighing such a decision carefully and from a fully informed perspective.

"Successful businesses have a five and ten year plan, government appears to have what is happening now reactive planning guided by the latest polls."

That's utter B.S. and you know it. The Pentagon is always monitoring world events and stands ready to react to anything that the military will be required to do.

Warships have been moving into place for weeks. UN advisors have been on the ground for more than a year. Weapons inspectors have been trying to verify the facts.

It seems to me that careful plans have been being drawn up by not only the United States, but the world as well, in response to the probable use of chemical weapons against innocent life in Syria.

"To police and feed the world while spreading the wealth at home will require about 2X current tax and other revenue plus many, many more government employees."

Which is why you might appreciate the fact that the President is weighing his decisions very carefully, rather than going off half-cocked and ordering a full blown military excursion into another nation, which could result in an expensive, years long venture.

"How can one person find so many corners in an oval office?"

Who are you to judge the responsibilities he has as President? I would be totally satisfied if we would not involve ourselves in anything having to do with Syria, but I understand why that may not be possible.

August 28, 2013 at 11:55 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPY, YOU need to have that macular degeneration checked. I've NEVER been in favor of a Syrian strike.

August 28, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
limric said...

"Surgical strike? Nope. Scheduled surgery. Assad will be notified of where not to be."

An interesting observation. The US is leaking plans like the broken sewer pipe that it is, but Edward Snowden is considered a pariah.

What a F*^king joke!!

August 28, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

I finally understand you. I finally get it.

You say that you are a Christian and you believe that your own words prove it.

You have offered as proof these statements:

“Jesus sinned”

“Jesus cannot be God”

"The idea that we are to accept a mass-murderer as an object of worship doesn't reflect well upon Christians at all. If he murdered nearly every human on the planet, God is far more heinous than Hitler. Yet Christians are to willfully worship him without question. Why?"

"If you believe the Bible to be 100% accurate in all regards, then you by default believe God to be a mass-murderer."

"Face the truth for once in your life. God is a murderer and a mass-murderer at that...IF THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE."

"Your belief in the Bible as a literal work of God locks you into the belief that God is a mass-murder, whether you admit it or not. My belief that the Bible is not the word of God, and instead is the work of many men, frees me from that belief."

"My belief that the Bible is not the word of God in no manner is equal to holding any contempt for it."

"God gave us all a brain to think with and to question that which deserves an answer. I've wondered for years why the Biblical story of the great flood is so easily accepted, in that God once murdered all life on Earth, save for a few."

August 28, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
tifosi said...

I guarantee that Assad is finding a bunker as we speak. Bomb that cowardice son-of-a-bitch to oblivion.

August 28, 2013 at 12:20 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "ALPY, YOU need to have that macular degeneration checked. I've NEVER been in favor of a Syrian strike."

Well, from your comment yesterday, at 9:11 p.m, you didn't exactly make that clear, since you took another opportunity to express your displeasure with the President for the nine millionth time.

How nice of you for once to actually take a stance on an issue, rather than to limit your comments to assessing participants in the forum.

August 28, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPO, I took the stance on Syria months ago. You see what you want to see.

August 28, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, you are a sick, sick man.

Posting my statements of truth and facts that can be found in the Bible only reinforces my positions.

I hope one day that you'll work up enough brainpower to at least make a feeble attempt to refute them with something other than more deflective and human written scripture from the same book.

You've missed my most recent contribution. Be sure to cut and pasted it in the future;

Nowhere in the Bible in either the Old or the New Testament, does any quotation by God or Jesus appear, that condemns or even references homosexuality, applicable to anyone but the Israelites.

Even if you were to successfully argue that those who wrote such condemnations, were empowered by God to write on his behalf, there is nothing to suggest that when kept in the context as it exists within the Bible, that such statues, regulations, or edicts, applies to modern man.

Is it possible that you consider yourself to be a direct descendant of those who were led out of Egypt into Israel, that were destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman Army?

Were you reincarnated? Were you the product of an immaculate conception? Test tube?

Let's set all that aside for a moment and ask a much more relevant question.

What gives you any reason to believe that God empowers you to condemn others for what you consider to be a mortal sin? Who made you a spokesman for God or his Son?

August 28, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "ALPO, I took the stance on Syria months ago. You see what you want to see."

But of course, you're such a beacon of consistency and you don't wear three foot wide shoes manufactured at your local Waffle House, right?

August 28, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alps, gotta admit I don't savvy the waffle house ditty.

August 28, 2013 at 12:53 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

I finally understand you. I finally get it.

You say that you are a Christian and you believe that your own words prove it.

You have offered as proof these statements:

"The idea that we are to accept a mass-murderer as an object of worship doesn't reflect well upon Christians at all. If he murdered nearly every human on the planet, God is far more heinous than Hitler. Yet Christians are to willfully worship him without question. Why?"

"If you believe the Bible to be 100% accurate in all regards, then you by default believe God to be a mass-murderer."

"Face the truth for once in your life. God is a murderer and a mass-murderer at that...IF THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE."

"Your belief in the Bible as a literal work of God locks you into the belief that God is a mass-murder, whether you admit it or not. My belief that the Bible is not the word of God, and instead is the work of many men, frees me from that belief."

August 28, 2013 at 1:03 p.m.
yddem said...

This is one of Clay's best.

It is ironic that on the 50th anniversary of a peaceful demonstration led by a Black man, a man of peace who deserved the Noble Peace Prize, a Black president is once again demonstrating that he did nothing (and has done nothing) to deserve the honor.

August 28, 2013 at 2:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^ 👍

August 28, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.
jesse said...

No matter who wins over there we lose so why bother!

Some one needs to remind Obama we got no friends in this war!

Leave them alone and lettum have at it!!

August 28, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From National Review:

Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said today that the United States doesn’t need permission from the United Nations or any other international body to strike Syria for the use of chemical weapons against civilians.

“No nation, no group of nations is bound by only one dimension of whether they’d make a decision to respond to any self-defense or any other violation of the kind of humanitarian violations that we saw in Syria,” Hagel told the BBC.

The secretary also said that he thought it was “pretty clear that chemical weapons were used against people in Syria,” and he believes that “the intelligence will conclude that it wasn’t the rebels who used it, and there’ll probably be pretty good intelligence to show that the Syria [sic] government was responsible.”

And this is the idiot that has based his whole political persona on being a Republican that vehemently denounced the Bush administration’s Iraq war policy and condemned Israel during the Lebanese incursion?

August 28, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

If Hagel ain't an embarrassment to the administration, he ought to be.

August 28, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
jesse said...

Hagel speaks with Obama's mouth!!

August 28, 2013 at 3:33 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Alprova said, "Is it possible that you consider yourself to be a direct descendant of those who were led out of Egypt into Israel, that were destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman Army?

Were you reincarnated? Were you the product of an immaculate conception? Test tube?"

Alprova, what do you mean by that? Are you suggesting that the Jews of today are not blood descendents of the nation of Israel that existed before 70 AD?

August 28, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^true jesse. but he ain't as smart as BHO.

August 28, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
alprova said...

TheCommander wrote: "Are you suggesting that the Jews of today are not blood descendents of the nation of Israel that existed before 70 AD?"

Very few of them could be.

Genetic studies support that among today's Israelis, that is those who are native and not religious Jews, who are located in Europe, Arab countries, and North Africa, about 1% of these people descended from any tightly knitted conclave of Israelites.

Most Jews located in the Middle East converted to Islam and the ancient blood line has been highly diluted.

In the Western half of the World, the chances are next to zero that anyone is a direct descendant of an Israelite.

August 28, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ wothout Google, Alps would be tongue-tied.

August 28, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.
tderng said...

alprova said...The Pentagon is always monitoring world events and stands ready to react to anything that the military will be required to do.

Really? Then the monitors must have been lost in some kind loop feedback at this time last year.

August 28, 2013 at 4:40 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

"Liberalism has nearly destroyed Black America. Now it's time to Black Americans to return the favor" -Elbert Guillory

August 28, 2013 at 4:42 p.m.
fairmon said...

"Draw a line and threaten anyone stepping over it and you better be prepared to do what you threaten or appear to be all talk."

alprova responded....

So, by that, I assume that in your mind, the better course of action would have been for the President to have said nothing when the accusations came up months ago to the deployment of chemical weapons by the Government of Syria?

Yes, silence can be golden. You know the old saying about better to remain silent and appear to be a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. He is able to talk at length and say nothing about other matters so why did he not do that?

It was a "what if" question which should never be answered since it has not happened all fact cannot be known so any answer is to a large extent speculation, including how you would react.

I don't question the pentagons planning and constant what ifs etc. but honestly the president and his close advisers seem to wake up in a new world every day with a new plan for the campaign and little else. I can see no reason why we should do anything in Syria or any other middle east or north Africa county but instead aggressively pursue U.S. energy independence and increased jobs.

August 28, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.
limric said...

*"Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said today that the United States doesn’t need permission from the United Nations or any other international body to strike Syria."

Uncanny resemblance -------- isn’t it.

August 28, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.
conservative said...

commander,

You are dealing with a man who has had years of Mormon indoctrination. When he was a snotty nosed kid he also had a teacher who convinced him that there were hundreds of contradictions in the Bible.

In one of my first encounters with him he claimed that Jesus gave monetary assistance to the poor (really). He even cited over 30 OLD TESTAMENT book, chapter and verse references claiming that the same (really). Jesus in the OLD TESTAMENT giving monetary assistance to the poor!

He has gone to Atheist websites and regurgitated the JPD nonsense, the priestly code nonsense trying to justify homosexuality and Moses didn't write his books under God's inspiration nonsense.

He has stated that Jesus lied, that Jesus sinned, that Jesus was not God incarnate.

I have many quotes of his. Quotes are very effective in exposing people. I use them and it drives him crazy.

He claims he is is member of three churches! (3), (really). Who knows when they hold services, he is here every Sunday morning.

Oh, he claims to be a Christian!!!

Forewarned is forearmed.

August 28, 2013 at 4:53 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alps is LDS?

August 28, 2013 at 4:58 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

"Alps is LDS?"

No, but conservative has done, or is still doing, to much LSD.

August 28, 2013 at 5:05 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

or PMS

August 28, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

Good point. He/she is a bleeding idiot.

August 28, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nations ONLY black senator not invited to speak today. Now that's inclusion.

August 28, 2013 at 5:09 p.m.
fairmon said...

"How can one person find so many corners in an oval office?"

alprova responds with....

Who are you to judge the responsibilities he has as President?

Finding a corner in the oval office does not refer to his responsibilities. The constitution outlines his responsibilities rather well. Talking in a way that puts him and in some cases the country in a corner is not a responsibility.

Does that mean you can judge him to be a very capable president that makes good decisions and displays excellence in leadership but no one else can conclude that he is a bumbling fool that can talk to a camera well while playing or pretending to be president?

August 28, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

tifosi said...

I guarantee that Assad is finding a bunker as we speak. Bomb that cowardice son-of-a-bitch to oblivion.

I see where you’re coming from.

Every man wants to be a macho macho man

to have the kind of body, always in demand

Jogging in the mornings, go man go

works out in the health spa, muscles glow

You can best believe that, he's a macho man

ready to get down with, anyone he can

You can tell a macho, he has a funky walk

his western shirts and leather, always look so boss

Funky with his body, he's a king

call him Mister Eagle, dig his chains

You can best believe that, he's a macho man

likes to be the leader, he never dresses grand

To live a life of freedom, machos make a stand,

Possess the strength and confidence, life's a steal,

You can best believe that he's a macho man

He's a special person in anybody's land.

I've got to be a macho! (dig the hair on my chest)

Macho, macho man (see my big thick mustache)

I've got to be a macho! (Dig broad shoulders)

Macho, macho man (dig my muscles!)

Village People

August 28, 2013 at 6:16 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Alprova, you keep good company on your views about the jews.

August 28, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Drone attacks on countries we are not at war with, Libya, and now Syria.

Biden being interviewed by Chris Matthews in 2007

Matthews: You said that if the President of the United States had launched an attack on Iran without congressional approval that would have been an impeachable offense. Do you want to review that comment you made? Well how do you stand on that now?

Biden: Yes I do. I want to stand by the comment I made. The reason I made the comment was as a warning. I don't say those things lightly, Chris, you've known me for a long time.

I was chairman of the judiciary committee for 17 years or its ranking member. I teach separation of powers and constitutional law. This is something I know.

So I got together and brought a group of constitutional scholars together to write a piece that I'm going to deliver to the whole United State Senate pointing out the President has no constitutional authority...to take this nation to war against a county of 70 million people unless we're attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked. And if he does, if he does, I would move to impeach him.

The House obviously has to do that but I would lead an effort to impeach him. The reason for my doing that, I don't say it lightly, I don't say it lightly. I say it because they should understand that what they were threatening, what they were saying, what it was adding up to be, what it looked like to the rest of the world we were about to do would be the most disastrous thing that could be done in this moment in our history that I could think of.

August 28, 2013 at 6:30 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alps is LDS?"

Nope, but conservative believes I am, for some reason.

August 28, 2013 at 6:54 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

By Robert Fisk:

If Barack Obama decides to attack the Syrian regime, he has ensured – for the very first time in history – that the United States will be on the same side as al-Qa’ida.

The men who destroyed so many thousands on 9/11 will then be fighting alongside the very nation whose innocents they so cruelly murdered almost exactly 12 years ago. Quite an achievement for Obama, Cameron, Hollande and the rest of the miniature warlords.

Maybe the Americans should ask al-Qa’ida for intelligence help – after all, this is the group with “boots on the ground”, something the Americans have no interest in doing. And maybe al-Qa’ida could offer some target information facilities to the country which usually claims that the supporters of al-Qa’ida, rather than the Syrians, are the most wanted men in the world.

There will be some ironies, of course. While the Americans drone al-Qa’ida to death in Yemen and Pakistan – along, of course, with the usual flock of civilians – they will be giving them, with the help of Messrs Cameron, Hollande and the other Little General-politicians, material assistance in Syria by hitting al-Qa’ida’s enemies. Indeed, you can bet your bottom dollar that the one target the Americans will not strike in Syria will be al-Qa’ida or the Nusra front.

Since there is no institutional memory left among modern governments – Cameron has forgotten how similar are the sentiments being uttered by Obama and himself to those uttered by Bush and Blair a decade ago, the same bland assurances, uttered with such self-confidence but without quite enough evidence to make it stick.

Sure, we are told that it will be a short strike on Syria, in and out, a couple of days. That’s what Obama likes to think. But think Iran. Think Hezbollah. I rather suspect – if Obama does go ahead – that this one will run and run.

August 28, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.
conservative said...

another straw man, another deceitful statement.

Your prior admission to attending a Mormon church for years is different from admitting you are now Mormon.

August 28, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

Who will replace Assad? The Muslin BH have no problem if he falls.

August 28, 2013 at 7:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

Let me see...we are encouraged to not judge all Muslims because of a few lunatics but we are encouraged to judge all gun owners due to a few lunatics. The logic is?

August 28, 2013 at 7:14 p.m.
jesse said...

Alprova? What about "Unitarian" Is that closer?

Sounds like a good fit!

August 28, 2013 at 7:23 p.m.
alprova said...

The Commander wrote: "Alprova, you keep good company on your views about the jews."

I have expressed not one comment that could be remotely construed as being anti-Semitic, so I fail to understand why you would even have cause to make any comparison to what I have written to that which Helen Thomas orated.

By the way, Christians have a long and sordid history of bashing Jews, because as a general rule, they don't believe in Jesus Christ.

So what gives?

August 28, 2013 at 7:41 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Your prior admission to attending a Mormon church for years is different from admitting you are now Mormon."

I've never admitted that I am "now Mormon." You've built that all up in your pea-brained head. It certainly did not come from me.

I've attended many Christian based churches, consisting of many different denominations in my lifetime, one of them being a Mormon Church, for a couple of years way back during the early 1970's.

August 28, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Alprova? What about "Unitarian" Is that closer? Sounds like a good fit!"

Nope.

August 28, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Yes, silence can be golden. You know the old saying about better to remain silent and appear to be a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. He is able to talk at length and say nothing about other matters so why did he not do that?"

No President of the United States has the luxury of opting out of world events.

I don't question the pentagons planning and constant what ifs etc. but honestly the president and his close advisers seem to wake up in a new world every day with a new plan for the campaign and little else. I can see no reason why we should do anything in Syria or any other middle east or north Africa county but instead aggressively pursue U.S. energy independence and increased jobs."**

Well...unfortunately, it is out of your hands, as well as mine, so it really doesn't matter what any one of us would prefer to see done or not done.

As much as I would not want to see the United States military engaged in yet another peace keeping mission, I understand why it may be that we cannot sit idle and allow a Government to continue to lob chemical weapons to kill innocent life.

August 28, 2013 at 7:56 p.m.
conservative said...

There you go again.

I did not say that you are now Mormon. I said you admitted to attending a Mormon church for years.

YOU said that I believed you are Mormon.

August 28, 2013 at 7:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Finding a corner in the oval office does not refer to his responsibilities. The constitution outlines his responsibilities rather well. Talking in a way that puts him and in some cases the country in a corner is not a responsibility."

If the President offers his opinion, he is vilified. If he offers apathy, he is vilified. He can't win with some people. You're one of them.

"Does that mean you can judge him to be a very capable president that makes good decisions and displays excellence in leadership but no one else can conclude that he is a bumbling fool that can talk to a camera well while playing or pretending to be president?"

Of course not, but at least be intellectually honest. There isn't any course of action that the President could take that will please every U.S. citizen. Given your history in regard to the man, I doubt there is one thing the man has done in five years, that you agree with.

So, in your mind, he's damned if he does, and he's just as damned if he doesn't.

You've proven to not have any consideration for the lives of other people, based on positions you have taken on many issues. It's equally rational to surmise that you have no problem with innocent lives being taken at the hands of their Governmental leaders.

Sometimes, humanity overrules apathy.

August 28, 2013 at 8:06 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "Then the monitors must have been lost in some kind loop feedback at this time last year."

Clearly, you have not been paying attention. The monitors have been there for quite some time, but they are being prevented from accessing areas where the weapons were deployed.

The only proof thus far to what is alleged, are cell phone videos that have been smuggled out and aired.

August 28, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I did not say that you are now Mormon. I said you admitted to attending a Mormon church for years."

About two years, 40 years ago.

"YOU said that I believed you are Mormon."

You've made the accusation several times. Shall I dig up the proof?

August 28, 2013 at 8:13 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

You've proven to not have any consideration for the lives of other people, based on positions you have taken on many issues. It's equally rational to surmise that you have no problem with innocent lives being taken at the hands of their Governmental leaders.

What right or authority do we have to be involved in a civil war in another country or in trying to dictate their behavior? When people don't care for their own life I have no sympathy. What in that region is better because we sacrificed many young lives there? We are bleeding ourselves to bankruptcy for no good reason except some in Washington still think we are in the 50's and the worlds largest lender instead of the largest debtor in the world history.

August 28, 2013 at 8:22 p.m.
conservative said...

I have often said that you have received Mormon indoctrination. I don't believe I have said you were Mormon UNLESS it was from the first time I realized your Mormon indoctrination.

I don't see how you could be a Mormon now for I don't believe they would have you. Also they would have to meet at some odd hours, hours different from tradtional Sunday morning services.

Go ahead quote me if you think you are right. I am confident I have not made such a claim in the last couple of years, if at all.

August 28, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "You are dealing with a man who has had years of Mormon indoctrination. When he was a snotty nosed kid he also had a teacher who convinced him that there were hundreds of contradictions in the Bible."

Either the contradictions exist or they don't.

Here's just three of the many contradictions for you to start tackling;

Who was Joseph's father?

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." -- Matthew 1:16

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." -- Like 3:23


Was Jesus God or not?

"I and my Father are one." -- John 10:30

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." -- John 14:28


What were the last words that Jesus spoke when he was crucified?

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." -- Matthew 27:46,50

"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." -- Luke 23:46

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished." and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -- John 19:30


"He has gone to Atheist websites and regurgitated the JPD nonsense, the priestly code nonsense trying to justify homosexuality and Moses didn't write his books under God's inspiration nonsense."

You're lying. I've never challenged any contention that what is written in the Bible was not "inspired," but I do challenge any assertion that the Bible is God's word, with the rare exception of quotes attributed to having come from God.

"He has stated that Jesus lied, that Jesus sinned, that Jesus was not God incarnate."

And along with those statements, I supplied scriptural proof as well. You have not been able to refute those scriptural references, but you have ignored and apparently deny what is written.

August 28, 2013 at 8:43 p.m.
conservative said...

I am not a night owl so I signing off.

You must not have been able to find that Mormon proof, you moved onto something else.

I will deal with you tommorrow.

August 28, 2013 at 8:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "What right or authority do we have to be involved in a civil war in another country or in trying to dictate their behavior?"

Perhaps we have a Godly DUTY to try and preserve the lives of innocent people who are being systematically exterminated. If it were just rebels and Syrian military dying, I would see things the same as you do. But that is not the case.

"When people don't care for their own life I have no sympathy."

Did you happen to view any of the several videos that have made the news within the past 48 hours? Yesiree...it's sure hard to feel any sympathy for those evil children who have been killed.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/world/meast/syria-civil-war/

"What in that region is better because we sacrificed many young lives there?"

As I've stated, right, wrong, or indifferent, it can be just as wrong not to do anything, as it may be to try. Again, if it were just those engaged in battle dying, I would be right there with you, but kids and women are being targeted.

August 28, 2013 at 9:01 p.m.
rick1 said...

During the 2008 presidential campaign, then-Senator Obama stated to the Boston Globe:

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

"As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent."

Since Syria is not a "actual or imminent threat" to us, and based on what Obama said during his run for president in 2008, he does not have the authority to take action.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

August 28, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

FTR, I don't care if Alpy is LDS or whatever. None of my bidness.

August 28, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Alprova, I make the comparison because Helen Thomas believes as you do: Jews of today do not descended from the Jews of antiquity.

Try an experiment: go to a synagogue and repeat what you posted about their origin and let us all know if they think you are anti Semitic or not? Tell them they do not descend from David, priests and Abraham and see what your reception is. Ask them if they think they were "reincarnated" like conservative.

Please give me some sources you use so I can investigate these claims that you and Helen make? Any clues as to how and when Judaism was magically reborn if it in fact became a dead religion and an extinct nation for a period of time? I will give you my sources: Josephus and I always refer to Edward Gibbon "The Decline and Fall..." Neither one were Christians and neither make such a claim of Jewish extinction or assimilation as you do. Please provide a source for me.

August 28, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "What right or authority do we have to be involved in a civil war in another country or in trying to dictate their behavior?"

alprova said...Perhaps we have a Godly DUTY to try and preserve the lives of innocent people who are being systematically exterminated. If it were just rebels and Syrian military dying, I would see things the same as you do. But that is not the case.

We don't have a duty, Godly or otherwise, to get involved in a civil war in another country. America had one of the most despicable civil wars in history and no other country tried to dictate or control the outcome. We have an obligation to defend our own people and our own country. We should not ask any man or woman to be at risk of losing their life or be crippled for life except to defend our land. I will give the president credit if he resist those pressuring him to react and attack and once again get involved in a no win war military action.

August 28, 2013 at 9:33 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

I doubt there is one thing the man has done in five years, that you agree with.

Nothing he initiated comes to mind. The only think I can give him credit for is being a better choice than McCain, an old relic that needs to retire. He tries to come across as a military expert with foreign relations expertise. Hello, he was a POW most of the time so his service is appreciated but his experience is pretty limited.

August 28, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.
alprova said...

"Alprova, I make the comparison because Helen Thomas believes as you do: Jews of today do not descended from the Jews of antiquity."

The vast majority of Jewish people throughout the world are not direct genetic descendants of the Biblical Israelites. Most are Jewish by faith only. That is an indisputable fact.

"Try an experiment: go to a synagogue and repeat what you posted about their origin and let us all know if they think you are anti Semitic or not?"

Religious opinions are meaningless. DNA tells the story. I dare state that there is not one person alive on Earth today who has pure Israelite blood coursing through their veins.

"Tell them they do not descend from David, priests and Abraham and see what your reception is. Ask them if they think they were "reincarnated" like conservative."

I'll bet I can really blow your mind.

Genetics have proven that black Africans, or black Hebrews if you will, are far more likely blood descendants of the 12 Tribes of Israel, than any fair skinned people around the planet.

"Please give me some sources you use so I can investigate these claims that you and Helen make?"

Do your own research. I learned all this years ago. I'm sure if you Google, you can find plenty to read.

"Any clues as to how and when Judaism was magically reborn if it in fact became a dead religion and an extinct nation for a period of time?"

Oh the religion never died, but the original Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and the Israelites scattered to the wind throughout Europe, Kazakhstan, and Poland, for the most part. Judaism didn't come back strong or was practiced openly until 1948.

Even today, only 2% of the world claims itself to be Jewish. Most are converts. 42% of all Jewish people live in Israel. The vest majority of the rest live in the United States and Canada.

"I will give you my sources: Josephus and I always refer to Edward Gibbon "The Decline and Fall..." Neither one were Christians and neither make such a claim of Jewish extinction or assimilation as you do. Please provide a source for me."

Wow...you never heard of the UN declared, State of Israel being created in 1948, when Jewish people made their way mainly from Poland and Eastern Europe?

"The Thirteenth Tribe" - Arthur Koestler

A video presentation;

Modern day Judaism is a religion, rather than a race of people. There's nothing wrong with those who practice the religion and in their believing that they are God's chosen people, but the race that was once known as the Israelites, is no more.

The entire point that started all this digression, was in regard to the Book of Leviticus, which is allegedly written by Moses, and which the words contained in that letter he wrote pertained only to the Levites and the Temple Priests.

August 29, 2013 at 12:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

The president would be wise to swallow his "red line" pride and not take military action in Syria. Others in the region do not support the U.S. initiative and many in the region don't believe the U.S. contention that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons. Some relate this U.S. allegation to what is now viewed as false information used to justify an attack on Iraq. The U.N. has still not verified the Assad regime used chemical weapons. There are those, including Russia, that credit Extremist. Whose intelligence sources would people trust most, the U.S. or Russia's? The U.S. loses either way so why risk being pulled into another war and having Israel get the brunt of the repercussion? Americans are growing weary of being duped into what will be an Armageddon in the middle east.

August 29, 2013 at 12:25 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "We don't have a duty, Godly or otherwise, to get involved in a civil war in another country."

You're just a wee bit too hard hearted for me, my friend. I draw a line in the sand myself when women and children are being targeted for extinction.

"America had one of the most despicable civil wars in history and no other country tried to dictate or control the outcome."

I don't recall ever reading that women and children were killed intentionally by either side.

"We have an obligation to defend our own people and our own country."

Of course.

"We should not ask any man or woman to be at risk of losing their life or be crippled for life except to defend our land."

I really don't think they are even considering any boots on the ground, to do what is being planned.

"I will give the president credit if he resist those pressuring him to react and attack and once again get involved in a no win war military action."

That's what he is doing, from all that I have read. He's not rushing or being rushed into anything.

August 29, 2013 at 12:36 a.m.
fairmon said...

It is easy for those sitting in the capital in D.C. with their escape route to a bunker or a couch potato at a computer to insist people send their sons and daughters to some heathen country to fight a war. Some say we have a Godly obligation to intervene in the affairs or civil wars in that region that has intermittently been going on through out recorded history. Is there one good reason other than some sanctimonious holier than thou speech to have our young people killed instead of them killing each other until their conflict is over for a few years? It is no doubt a sad state of affairs and will cause anyone to be sympathetic and want to do something but nothing that can be done will be successful or win favor.

August 29, 2013 at 12:42 a.m.
facyspacy said...

Obama is the worst thing to happen to black america

August 29, 2013 at 12:58 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

fairmon is right. it's a lose-lose situation. and BHO is not being judicious with his decision...he's simply seeing which way the wind is blowing.

August 29, 2013 at 1 a.m.
fairmon said...

Americans were being attacked and killed at Benghazi with stand down being the order. Why would that not be the order when Americans are not there to be attacked?

alprova said... I draw a line in the sand myself when women and children are being targeted for extinction.

There is no conclusive evidence they are targeted for extinction leaving the country with no women or children. There is a good possibility one of the involved factions were responsible instead of Assad and those in his command.

It would be appropriate that people and congress be advised of an attack objective describing who, what, when, where, why and how. The how should include measuring success and an end point.

alprova are you suggesting an all out attack and regime change as punishment for the losses from what appears to be the use of chemical weapons? Are you confident U.S. intelligence sources have it right this time?

August 29, 2013 at 6:20 a.m.
conservative said...

"YOU said that I believed you are Mormon."

You've made the accusation several times. Shall I dig up the proof?

================

alprova,

You did not provide the proof.

I am not going to address your other issues until this issue is settled. You often run to other issues when you are cornered. We must settle this accusation of yours before we go any further.

August 29, 2013 at 7:09 a.m.
conservative said...

commander,

"Ask them if they think they were "reincarnated" like conservative."

Does that have anything to do with me?

August 29, 2013 at 7:32 a.m.
limric said...

From Obama on PBS's The Newshour:

“We have concluded that the Syrian government in fact carried these out. And if that’s so, then there need to be international consequences,” he said.

Anyone see anything slightly inconsistent or dishonest about the above statement? To me that statement alone signals that it doesn't matter who did what, I'm (Obama) going to launch the cruise missiles of justice anyway.

Someone enlighten me please. What is the definition of rouge nation? Because I sure feel like I'm living in one.

August 29, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
jesse said...

I guess Assad figured if Obama can drone civilians in Afghanistan he won't git pissed if i gas some in Damascus!!

August 29, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limric: Answer: A red one.

August 29, 2013 at 8:44 a.m.
tifosi said...

"rouge nation" is the same as "red nation"

August 29, 2013 at 8:57 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "alprova are you suggesting an all out attack and regime change as punishment for the losses from what appears to be the use of chemical weapons? Are you confident U.S. intelligence sources have it right this time?"

The United States doesn't appear to be spearheading the investigation this time. The UK is.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/08/29/chemical-weapon-use-by-syrian-regime-uk-government-legal-position.pdf?hpt=hp_t1

August 29, 2013 at 9:01 a.m.
tbs1015 said...

Fairmon, your history is a bit off buddy. The British extensively supported the South during the American Civil War, they had a huge stake in the cultivation and exportation of cotton.

August 29, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The intelligence linking Syrian President Bashar Assad or his inner circle to an alleged chemical weapons attack that killed at least 100 people is no "slam dunk," with questions remaining about who actually controls some of Syria's chemical weapons stores and doubts about whether Assad himself ordered the strike, U.S. intelligence officials say. Who you gonna believe? Our own CIA appears to be a Stasi like arm of the administration. (see Benghazi)

August 29, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I am not going to address your other issues until this issue is settled. You often run to other issues when you are cornered. We must settle this accusation of yours before we go any further."

Alright!! I've been wondering what it would take to get you to quit offering your ridiculous posts.

No proof will be forthcoming. Soooooo....if you are going to honor your word...we're done sparring, right?

Just yesterday, based on one of your posts, it had a participant questioning whether I was LDS.

What else needs to be proven?

Just so you know, I would not be ashamed for one second to be a Mormon.

But, I'm not a Mormon.

August 29, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.
TheCommander said...

conservative, yes, I was referring to what he was asking you about being reincarnated in a previous thread.

If the modern Jew was not an identifiable people group genetically, culturally, and they did not practice any religion before 1948, then how did the German's know who to try to exterminate? According to Alprova, me and you can resurrect a religion that hasn't been practiced in 2000 years, get about 1 million converts and the UN will just give us some land?

He still never provided sources on this genetic testing or any of his other claims. I have been to museums where elaborate Torah scrolls were on display that were 50, 100, 150, 200, 500 to 1000 years old. Some of them were partially burned because of persecutions. Yet Alprova says the religion wasn't practiced until 1948.

Can he explain how Hebrew is spoken widely today if it died as he claims? Show me another nation that suffered a TOTAL extinction as he claims happened and yet today have its original land, its orignal language, and its original religion?

August 29, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.
alprova said...

"If the modern Jew was not an identifiable people group genetically, culturally, and they did not practice any religion before 1948, then how did the German's know who to try to exterminate?"

I did not state that the religion disappeared until 1948. Persecutions were most definitely a part of being Jewish. The Holocaust most definitely did happen.

"According to Alprova, me and you can resurrect a religion that hasn't been practiced in 2000 years, get about 1 million converts and the UN will just give us some land?"

Again, you're misrepresenting what I wrote. I'm not going to go back and forth with someone who cannot debate honestly.

"He still never provided sources on this genetic testing or any of his other claims."

And I'm not going to. If the subject interests you, look it up yourself. Find your own sources. The information is out there.

"I have been to museums where elaborate Torah scrolls were on display that were 50, 100, 150, 200, 500 to 1000 years old. Some of them were partially burned because of persecutions. Yet Alprova says the religion wasn't practiced until 1948."

Nooooo....that's not what I stated at all. In 1948, several "safe-havens" were created, which allowed Jews to practice openly and without fear of persecution.

"Can he explain how Hebrew is spoken widely today if it died as he claims?"

I haven't even addressed the Hebrew language, but since you brought it up, the Hebrew spoken today is of a totally different dialect than that which existed in Biblical times.

Ancient Hebrew is as different as night and day, when compared to modern dialects.

"Show me another nation that suffered a TOTAL extinction as he claims happened and yet today have its original land, its orignal language, and its original religion?"

I'm guessing that you are a cultural Zionist.

August 29, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
anniebelle said...

The U.S. government may be considering military action in response to chemical strikes near Damascus. But a generation ago, America's military and intelligence communities knew about and did nothing to stop a series of nerve gas attacks far more devastating than anything Syria has seen, Foreign Policy has learned. In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq, fully aware that Hussein's military would attack with chemical weapons, including sarin, a lethal nerve agent.

The intelligence included imagery and maps about Iranian troop movements, as well as the locations of Iranian logistics facilities and details about Iranian air defenses. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence. These attacks helped to tilt the war in Iraq's favor and bring Iran to the negotiating table, and they ensured that the Reagan administration's long-standing policy of securing an Iraqi victory would succeed. But they were also the last in a series of chemical strikes stretching back several years that the Reagan administration knew about and didn't disclose.

August 29, 2013 at 10:01 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"Alright!! I've been wondering what it would take to get you to quit offering your ridiculous posts."

I am sure you do. I am certain you do. There is no doubt in mind that you do.

"No proof will be forthcoming. Soooooo....if you are going to honor your word...we're done sparring, right?"

Well as I stated the proof probably did not exist but I welcomed you to post it. The proof probably does not exist and that is why you didn't post it. Now, what are you going to do?

August 29, 2013 at 10:19 a.m.
alprova said...

...yawn...

August 29, 2013 at 11 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"No proof will be forthcoming. Soooooo....if you are going to honor your word...we're done sparring, right?"

You have stated numerous times that you would not converse with me any longer. YOU have broken your word those numerous times.

In fact, I have told you that you would break your word. Did you get that? I have told you that YOU would break your word and YOU have

August 29, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.
TheCommander said...

Alprova, If I was to make such bold claims I would have a source handy, even if I studied it 50 years ago. it's amazing that you can recall such details about your philosophy about the Jews but you cannot name a credible source off the top of your head. Whenever I decide if a book is worth reading, I first turn to the footnotes section. Sources are most important. I guess I'm just a bit weird and outdated that way. We are in a Wiki world now...

August 29, 2013 at 11:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Commander: Alps is the King of Wiki.

August 29, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

I know that you are intelligent but you are not intelligent enough for me.

I offer this forthcoming advice for others who suffer in dealing with you on any issue.

You often quote me and then comment but you also often DON'T quote me and just make a claim that I said something apart from a quote.

You of course do this because you then misrepresent what your opponent said or the position your opponent took.

I will illustrate in my next comment.

August 29, 2013 at 11:45 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"No proof will be forthcoming. Soooooo....if you are going to honor your word...we're done sparring, right?"

As promised I will now demonstrate what you do when you sometimes leave a quote out that you comment on.

My comment that you left out was:

"You did not provide the proof."

"I am not going to address your other issues until this issue is settled. You often run to other issues when you are cornered. We must settle this accusation of yours before we go any further"

Of course when I said "your other issues" I was referring to your alleged contradictions in the Bible that you presented at 9:01 p.m.yesterday (above).

This does not mean from now on as you well know for that is why you omitted my comment which would have exposed your lie.

Note to others. When alprova omits your quote he is intending to misrepresent what you said.

NOTE TO OTHERS. WHEN ALPROVA OMITS YOUR QUOTE HE IS INTENDING TO MISREPRESENT WHAT YOU SAID.

More to come.

August 29, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Alprova, I have never heard of the term "cultural zionist" so I am not sure if I am one or not. Can you define it for me?

August 29, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I made this comment in response to someone's letter to the editor but I believe that it is just as fitting to make the same comment here. I'm sure the many rabid righties on this forum will find their usual fault with some or all that I say but that's to be expected.

I think that Obama deserves all the criticism he is getting for taking us to the edge of another war, and based on the flimsiest of reasons. But I'm assuming that you people who are readily finding fault with him for this just as forcefully denounced Bush and his neo-con gang of thugs in the run-up to the war with Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and that had not threatened this country in any way, a country that, even if it had WMDs, had no way of deploying them in such a way as to be a threat to us? Has your voice ever cried out against the 100,000+ innocent men, women, and children who are dead now, or the 2,000,000+ people who have been displaced from their homes? Have you laid the proper blame for the insanity of that war at the feet of the war criminal Bush? Yes, Obama is to be rightfully criticized for perpetuating that war (he should have and could have ended it immediately upon taking office), but Bush is to bear the brunt of the blame for starting an ill-begotten, senseless war in the first place.

Now Obama is talking war again, even as we are still mired in two others. There is no end to the vicious cycle of war that this country has become addicted to. Our new motto for America in the 21st century: WAR: IT'S WHAT WE DO.

August 29, 2013 at 2:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ricky, You can't really bring yourself to criticize BHO without somehow coupling it to Dubya, can you? Personally, I was against the Iraq invasion and said so many times publicly. But BHO owns this Syrian ditty and seems clueless as to which way to go. Awaiting polls, perhaps? My advice, stay the hell out.

August 29, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I'm not an expert, PT, but could it be that Obama is not clueless and indecisive, but waiting? Perhaps this is something other countries should be a part of. Is it necessary to act in haste, or is it better to do a thorough assessment and act in coordination with our allies?

I suspect that conservatives would slam Obama no matter what his course of action is on this. I can tell you I would not want to be the one making this decision.

August 29, 2013 at 2:47 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Well, Lu, don't suspect. You could be wrong on that. My hope is that BHO will make the right choice.

August 29, 2013 at 2:56 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Thing is, opinions are all over the board on this, from Europe, China, GOP and Dems. It will not be an easy thing to decide. And others are calling for more time to discuss it, including France and the UK. It appears that all are wanting to be prudent.

August 29, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu, the French and Brits have done some tall talking on this. Let them take the lead. (ain't gonna happen)

August 29, 2013 at 3:02 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"No proof will be forthcoming. Soooooo....if you are going to honor your word...we're done sparring, right?"

We only spar because you blaspheme God, attack the word of God or attack me.

I will remind you that I have reminded you before that you are the one who starts it.

It takes two to spar. Think about that.

I don't need to spar for I can just give a long list of your blasphemous, ant Christian rants and anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Scripture and Christianity can make an easy decision about whether your profession as a Christian has merit.

August 29, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I suspect that conservatives would slam Obama no matter what his course of action is on this." - lkeithlu

Exactly. There is nothing to suspect about it, though. Without a doubt they will slam him, regardless. Send in bombers or troops? He's a thoughtless, war-mongering chickenhawk!. Show patience and restraint? He's a spineless liberal wuss! The very purpose of their existence is to hate, slam, deride, tar and feather, and send Obama packing, on the next flight to Kenya. He can't even draw a breath or shake hands in a way that is acceptable to them.

August 29, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Ricky, You can't really bring yourself to criticize BHO without somehow coupling it to Dubya, can you?" - PT

There has been no more heinous atrocities committed in this county than that which occurred under Bush's watch - from his ineptness in allowing 9/11 to happen in the first place (or even worse if it was indeed a false flag operation, as many believe) to his invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and the hundred thousand+ innocent people killed and thousands of American soldiers killed and permanently wounded. He is a war criminal of the worst sort and nobody should forget what he has done, as if he only showed a lack of good judgment. If I myself don't continue to speak out about his atrocities I certainly hope others will.

August 29, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

a false flag operation? you sound like the opposite of a survivalist...don't be ridiculous. your paintbrush, Bub, is about 12" wide.

August 29, 2013 at 3:38 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Further reflections on war and patriotism:

It's time to to put an end to the ridiculous bumper sticker mentality of "opposing the war but supporting the troops." There is no honor in fighting in a dishonorable war, and the troops are only allowing themselves to be fools and fodder for the vicious war machine (military-industrial-corporatist complex) that has its ruthless grip on this nation. One is not a hero for the mere act of putting on a soldier's uniform. There is nothing heroic about willing to shut down your mind and agree to blindly follow orders. A good soldier is nothing more than someone who gives up his very soul, mind, and conscience in deference and complete obedience to the military hierarchy.

There is a name for military personnel who occupy foreign countries, decimate the homes and the lands of the people who live there, and kill far more innocent inhabitants than enemy combatants. That name is TERRORISTS. Our soldiers are not fighting to protect our freedom, as much as they might like to think they are; they are only killing innocent people by the tens of thousands, and in the process creating more and more enemies who have legitimate reason to hate us. In this global war on terror that we are supposedly engaged in, we have become the very terrorists that we say we are trying to eradicate.

When we claim to support the troops but oppose the war we are sending the tacit message that soldiering itself is its own reward, regardless of the morality or immorality of the war they are fighting in. It's time to stop the lunacy of the Bubba-minded flag waving and show more respect for those who say NO to the dogs of war than for those who say…."Baaaah, yes I will be your sheep for the slaughter.”

August 29, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
fairmon said...

tbs1015 said...

Fairmon, your history is a bit off buddy. The British extensively supported the South during the American Civil War, they had a huge stake in the cultivation and exportation of cotton.

tbs...I am aware of the British interest and their financial aid but they did not have soldiers in combat with the north, they did not have ships shelling the northern states or elsewhere, they did not intervene and try to stop Americans from killing each other and they did not try to displace Lincoln. I visualize all but a few Americans back then turning on any country that tried to be involved in an internal conflict and attempt to impose their form of government or beliefs on those early Americans.

What country in the middle east has not developed a level of resentment, dislike and distrust of the U.S.? I wonder why?

August 29, 2013 at 4:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

The United States doesn't appear to be spearheading the investigation this time. The UK is.

Should someone tell Kerry that the UK will be the source and not those that caused him to make his we know and there is no doubt statements? I don't know if Obama is being deliberate or procrastinating but either is OK as long as he keeps us out of it.

August 29, 2013 at 4:40 p.m.
tifosi said...

conservative said... "We only spar because you blaspheme God, attack the word of God or attack me"

conservative plays victim. Now that's funny.

August 29, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.
soakya said...

You are one outrageous character. The nerve of you to call our troops fools, fodder, and terrorist. There is a place in history for folks like you rick, it's right next to Hanoi Jane.

August 29, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ricky funny

August 29, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Thank you for comparing me to someone like her, soakya. I have nothing but respect for "Hanoi Jane." If you did a little objective research into the biography of Jane Fonda, and especially the incident that took place on her visit to Hanoi, you would know that she actually had complete respect for the troops. She was actively engaged in talking with service members prior to her visit there and her supposed disdain for the POWs was a blatant lie that has been debunked by every POW who was in her presence that day. That photo that she became infamous for was a mistake, a lapse in judgment, an incident that happened at the spur of the moment, and it had ramifications that in her naiveté she could not have foreseen at the time. She has apologized profusely for it and if you choose not to believe her, well, that is your prerogative. But most Vietnam vets who still hate her do so only because it's easier for them to give in to their flag-waving emotions and they just hate her viscerally for being in any way related to the peace-loving hippie movement that they so much detested...and still detest to this day. But her contempt was not for the service members but for our government (both Democrats and Republicans) who had lied and were continuing to lie about the reasons for the war. She was just trying to make use of her celebrity status to spread the truth of what has happening and she had nothing but empathy for the soldiers who were being lied to.

Whatever contempt you might feel for me and people like me, I feel at least as much contempt for you Bubba-types who just automatically wave the flag and jump head-first in to any war just because you think it's the patriotic thing to do. You're too stupid to ask questions and to use your mind to think, you just wave your flag, let the bullets and the bombs fly, and imagine that God is on America's side. You and your ilk disgust me.

August 29, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ricky sick. Signed, Bubba

August 29, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.
soakya said...

Of course you respect her. I could care less if she half heartily apologized and later said she didn't regret her trip to north vietnam, she was responsible for the torture and death of American soldiers or what you would call "terrorist."

If I were you Rick I wouldn't be calling anyone stupid nor disgusting. You and Fonda have shown who you both have contempt for, anyone in uniform. You went directly after the soldiers not the politicians who start wars. Not only are you an idiot and a coward you are a pathetic person.

Why don't you find a family that has lost someone while serving in a war zone and tell them how you really feel.

August 29, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.
jesse said...

Roo, it ain't the troops that make these wars!

August 29, 2013 at 6:01 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Sokya, rickaroo has watched one too many Oliver Stone movies that formed his opinions. Do you remember the movie "Airplane!" (I know that is not Oliver Stone) where Striker was in the hospital and he was painting his war scene? see below.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/b/ba/Airplane-thompson.jpg

This is rickaroo's opinion of ALL soldiers. Thank (empty, void of timeless non-existent being) that rick is not one of those judgmental religious zealots he preaches about. Thank the non-being that he looks at people as individuals and doesn't make hateful, bigoted blanket statements. Who should we hold up in high regard ricakroo? - The Dixie Chicks?

Typical liberalism - it is so easy to legislate and stomp your feet and vote for peace. It just makes YOU feel soooo good about yourself. It's just like voting for a living wage. Just vote for it and it will be. What an immature and selfish way of looking at the world.

Alprova, Do you see what Google is for? Use it for finding pictures and finding places to go on vacation - don't use it for your research to make outrageous statements about the origins of the Jews, their history or their language. It just shows how anti-intellectual you really are. Stop watching the history channel and the "mysteries of the Bible" and go to some primary sources if you are going to spew. You go to atheistic websites to cut and paste crap that feeds your unbelief. Won't it be sad to stand before a Holy God someday in judgment as you try to pass the blame to the Yahoo search engine for your refusal to believe what is plain? Just take the time, that's all I'm saying.

August 29, 2013 at 6:17 p.m.
TheCommander said...

rickaroo said, "But most Vietnam vets who still hate her do so only because it's easier for them to give in to their flag-waving emotions and they just hate her viscerally for being in any way related to the peace-loving hippie movement"

You can't stop slamming the soldiers rick! I think they have the final say: You really think those soldiers loved the war? I think those who fought the war have more reason to hate war than Hollywood stars rick. "Falg-waving"? "hate her"? You condemn the soldier over and over. Maybe Jane didn't, but you do condemn and hate each and every soldier.

August 29, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Roo, it ain't the troops that make these wars!" - jesse

They don't start them but they ALLOW themselves to be willing accomplices in the genocide (and yes, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives snuffed out in Vietnam and the hundred thousand plus in Iraq constitutes GENOCIDE, not just collateral damage). Now that we have an all-volunteer military, there is no excuse for people signing up for wars that are questionable at best and evil at worst. It is a cop-out to say that they don't or can't know any better. The facts of the why's and the wherefore's of waging war in Iraq and Afghanistan are there for everybody to know and anyone is being a fool - yes, a F-O-O-L - to believe that either of those wars is accomplishing anything other than enriching the defense contractors and others who are making billions and trillions off these wars and any war that we engage in henceforth. Wise up. We can't afford to keep playing the stupid card and call it patriotic. It's great to want to serve your country, but not at the expense of putting your mind on cruise control and pretending that just wearing the uniform and killing a brown-skinned Middle Easterner or Asian is protecting our freedom. Bullsh#t.

August 29, 2013 at 6:35 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I know that you are intelligent but you are not intelligent enough for me."

Uh huh....

"I offer this forthcoming advice for others who suffer in dealing with you on any issue."

Uh huh...

"You often quote me and then comment but you also often DON'T quote me and just make a claim that I said something apart from a quote."

Lotta QUOTES in that sentence.

"You of course do this because you then misrepresent what your opponent said or the position your opponent took."

As opposed to your completely ignoring anything that is written, except for repeatedly posting your opponents words over and over and over.

"I will illustrate in my next comment."

Okey Dokey....

August 29, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.
TheCommander said...

"willing accomplices" You believe kids join the military in the hopes that they get a chance to destroy a village, kill children, rape women (now men are at risk as well) and plunder loot?

August 29, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.
alprova said...

The Commander wrote: "Alprova, I have never heard of the term "cultural zionist" so I am not sure if I am one or not. Can you define it for me?"

I'm not your personal dictionary. Look it up yourself, if you know how to.

August 29, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.
conservative said...

Yikes!Did you learn how to do that in grade school?

August 29, 2013 at 6:54 p.m.
conservative said...

Hey commander and soakya.

Let me know when you can reduce a bloviator to uh huh and Okey Dokey.

Ok, I admit I have had more experience with bloviators.

August 29, 2013 at 7:01 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"You can't stop slamming the soldiers rick!...You condemn the soldier over and over. Maybe Jane didn't, but you do condemn and hate each and every soldier." - TC

I have respect for those who served, thinking they were doing the right thing, but then they had their eyes opened and realized the extent to which the government lied to them, whether it was Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan. I have the utmost respect for those who direct their ire at the government who lied to them instead of at the protesters who had the good sense to refuse to go in the first place. But anyone who to this day still tries to make Vietnam a righteous war, refuses to acknowledge how our government was lying to us for years about it, and they condemn anyone who had the good sense to protest it and refuse to fight, then I see them for the low-IQ flag-waving Bubbas that they are, who are willing to go to war at the drop of a hat just because their government tells them to and they think that America is always right and always has God on its side. Those cretins I have not an ounce of respect for.

Furthermore, I have complete respect for the WW2 generation. That was the last war this country engaged in that was truly a justifiable and necessary war. But since then, we have had the rising up of the military-industrial complex that has this country by the balls. It is not some obscure term that somebody made up, or if they did it was Eisenhower, who was acutely aware of its dangers even back in his day. We no longer engage in war for self defense but purely to make a profit or to protect our money-making interests abroad. I'm not saying that there will not be justifiable reasons for this country to ever wage war again, but we must expect more of our volunteers than just mindlessly wrapping themselves in some warm and fuzzy blanket of patriotism and thinking that that is being a good, dutiful little patriot.

August 29, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "We only spar because you blaspheme God, attack the word of God or attack me."

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that sentence didn't read that you were one and the same.

Get something through your thick head. I have NEVER blasphemed God. The Bible is not God's word. Everything I have written that you have taken issue with, can be read in the Bible.

Now either they are facts, or they are not. Given that you have failed repeatedly and consistently to even try to refute them, I'd say that the facts stand as I have written them.

Your opinion of me as a blasphemer is baseless and quite meaningless.

"I will remind you that I have reminded you before that you are the one who starts it."

That's utter bullsh!t.

"I don't need to spar for I can just give a long list of your blasphemous, ant Christian rants and anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Scripture and Christianity can make an easy decision about whether your profession as a Christian has merit."

Your opinions are meaningless and without consequence. I'm not bothered by them in the least sense of the word.

August 29, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova,

I finally understand you. I finally get it.

You say that you are a Christian and you believe your own words prove it.

So I am going to let you have the floor, your very own words:

"The idea that we are to accept a mass-murderer as an object of worship doesn't reflect well upon Christians at all. If he murdered nearly every human on the planet, God is far more heinous than Hitler. Yet Christians are to willfully worship him without question. Why?"

“Jesus sinned”

“Jesus cannot be God”

"If you believe the Bible to be 100% accurate in all regards, then you by default believe God to be a mass-murderer."

"Face the truth for once in your life. God is a murderer and a mass-murderer at that...IF THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE."

"Your belief in the Bible as a literal work of God locks you into the belief that God is a mass-murder, whether you admit it or not. My belief that the Bible is not the word of God, and instead is the work of many men, frees me from that belief."

"My belief that the Bible is not the word of God in no manner is equal to holding any contempt for it."

"God gave us all a brain to think with and to question that which deserves an answer. I've wondered for years why the Biblical story of the great flood is so easily accepted, in that God once murdered all life on Earth, save for a few."

August 29, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.
alprova said...

The Commander wrote: "Alprova, Do you see what Google is for? Use it for finding pictures and finding places to go on vacation - don't use it for your research to make outrageous statements about the origins of the Jews, their history or their language."

Actually, I don't use Google...ever, for anything.

"It just shows how anti-intellectual you really are."

Wonder why I don't point you to any sources of information? It's because I know full and well, that your game will be to discount them.

You're free to believe whatever you so desire. So am I. The thing is, I widen the scope of my knowledge by reading sources not tied to religious dogma, which anyone knows will be biased from the get-go. I much more prefer independent, points of view from a secular perspective.

"Stop watching the history channel and the "mysteries of the Bible" and go to some primary sources if you are going to spew."

Okay then, let's see YOUR list of "primary sources."

"You go to atheistic websites to cut and paste crap that feeds your unbelief."

Nope.

"Won't it be sad to stand before a Holy God someday in judgment as you try to pass the blame to the Yahoo search engine for your refusal to believe what is plain? Just take the time, that's all I'm saying."

I have no fear of God. I only fear those who purport themselves to be God's spokespeople, who stupidly believe themselves more enlightened than others.

Oh...and by the way...you've done a great job of attacking me in general terms. Now let's see you attack the specific points I have offered. Can you refute them at all?

If you do attempt to, please be sure to address the EXACT words I have written, rather than your assessment of them. In other words, don't elaborate on what I have written. Stick to my words EXACTLY as they are written.

August 29, 2013 at 7:19 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

To those who always scream "I don't like (Bush, Obama) but I Support the Troops"

http://i.imgur.com/skGbL.jpg

Maybe instead of new National Cemeteries for the recent and soon to be additional US War Dead, we call them the Lockheed-Dow-Congressional Portfolios-Exxon-Halliburton Fields of Corporate Glory. Above the entrance have the words carved in beautiful red granite, " We Died So Others Make Big Profits" with eternal flames brought to you by Exxon. Don't forget the Changing of the Business Suits on the hour at the Tomb of the Unknown Corporate Mercenary.

Wasn't that worth the life of your family and friends?

August 29, 2013 at 7:32 p.m.
alprova said...

Thank you conservative for reinforcing my clear, concise, and factual stances which can be found and read by anyone in that most infamous book, the Bible.

If the Bible is God's word, you have on record, his admission that he took the lives of what must have been millions of innocent lives in a fit of rage.

You accept that story at face value.

Since I know that the Bible is not the word of God, but rather the word of mortal men, I have been freed from that misconception, and am allowed to read the Bible for what it is...a literary collection of letters written by men who believed as you did, that they were empowered to speak and write on his behalf.

Here's a new one to add to your collection;

They must have had some really good stuff to smoke before some of these people fired up their pens.

Now for your entertainment -- three more Biblical contradictions;


Who Is To Die For Their Sins?

"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." -- Isaiah 14:21

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." -- Deuteronomy 24:16


Moses Was What?

"Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth." -- Numbers 12:3

"And Moses was wroth, and Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, but all the women children, keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31: 14, 17, 18


How Many Years Of Famine?

"So God came to David, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?" -- II Samuel 24:13

"So God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee..." -- 1 Chronicles 21:11


But of course. The Bible is perfect, and without any contradictions whatsoever, and everyone who wrote their respective letters got God's words totally correct...right?

August 29, 2013 at 7:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova,

I finally understand you. I finally get it.

You say that you are a Christian and you believe that your own words prove it.

So once again I am going to let you have the floor, your very own words:

"If the Biblical tale is indeed true, then God senselessly murdered millions of innocent humans and billions of animals in the flood. Even if there was the remote possibility in justifying the murder of people, what possible justification could have existed for wiping out most all animal life?"

"Some of you may have never considered asking these questions. The flood, if true, was an atrocity of the highest order. It was mass murder on a global scale."

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus can not be God"

August 29, 2013 at 8 p.m.
volsam said...

Conservative,arguing the bible with non believers is a waste of time. Even jesus said try once to convert, then move on. You can only debate the bible with believers.Your energy and faith is inspiring.You cannot change their mind , it is fruitless.

August 29, 2013 at 8:23 p.m.
conservative said...

I don't know what God will do with my efforts. However, I can try to stop others from being deceived by posting a deceiver's own words.

August 29, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'm deeply thankful we're not a nation of Dayton Darwins

August 29, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "I don't know what God will do with my efforts. However, I can try to stop others from being deceived by posting a deceiver's own words."

You lie whenever you call me a deceiver.

Have I EVER posted one word that is not totally true, as it can be read in the Bible?

I do not deceive. Facts are never tools of deception.

You simply refuse to accept the fact that the Bible is far from a perfect work, and that it is full of things that defy all sense of reason.

August 29, 2013 at 8:55 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

You really don't want to let it go, do you Alps?

August 29, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

volsam, alprova is not an atheist. Conservative just believes anyone who wants to call themselves a Christian must get his approval first.

August 29, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Conservative doing door-checks at Pearly-Gate. Bwahaha

August 29, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

conservative said...

"I don't know what God will do with my efforts."

God might sing a song.

August 29, 2013 at 9:59 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Rickaroo said...

Further reflections on war and patriotism:

It's time to to put an end to the ridiculous bumper sticker mentality of "opposing the war but supporting the troops." There is no honor in fighting in a dishonorable war, and the troops are only allowing themselves to be fools and fodder for the vicious war machine


You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury.

You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth.

Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way.

Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

From A Few Good Men

August 29, 2013 at 10:38 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Genetic studies support ...1% of these people descended from any tightly knitted conclave of Israelites.

In the Western half of the World, the chances are next to zero that anyone is a direct descendant of an Israelite.

Modern day Judaism is a religion, rather than a race of people. ... the race that was once known as the Israelites, is no more.

Even today, only 2% of the world claims itself to be Jewish. Most are converts.

Genetics have proven that black Africans, or black Hebrews if you will, are far more likely blood descendants of the 12 Tribes of Israel, than any fair skinned people around the planet.

Religious opinions are meaningless. DNA tells the story.

I dare state that there is not one person alive on Earth today who has pure Israelite blood coursing through their veins.

The vast majority of Jewish people throughout the world are not direct genetic descendants of the Biblical Israelites. Most are Jewish by faith only. That is an indisputable fact.

Are you referring to DNA studies such as the one described in the below link? If so it appears that most of the worlds DNA experts disagree with that point of view.

http://forward.com/articles/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/?p=all

I have expressed not one comment that could be remotely construed as being anti-Semitic

I'm guessing that you are a cultural Zionist.

Odd that you would include those two statements. It is a fact that those who champion your above points about Jewish DNA studies are for the most part people who are anti-Jew or White supremacists. They use those claims to deny that present day Jews have any moral or ancestral claims to lands now designated as Israel.

August 29, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Nowhere in the Bible in either the Old or the New Testament, does any quotation by God or Jesus appear, that condemns or even references homosexuality, applicable to anyone but the Israelites.

First let me preface my statement by saying that “if there was a God,” who could issue such directives, then the following would seem to apply.

So you’re saying that God would have considered homosexuality to be a sin for any Israelite? However for anyone without a drop of the “real” blood type in their body they can play the game with no rules? That doesn’t seem fair but I guess that’s the way he rolls or at least you claim he does.

August 29, 2013 at 11:24 p.m.
TheCommander said...

Thank You JT. It doesn't bode well for Jews in our nation or any nation when militant atheism takes hold. As nations shed the beliefs of their previous generations, anti-Semitism always breaks out. It was striking observing 500 year old partially burned Jewish scrolls from Lithuania that were the lone survivors of a breakout of this type of hatred. You make the point - Alprova, look at the groups who share your beliefs.

August 30, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.
TheCommander said...

jt, that article was very interesting. One thing is for certain, alprova's views are even more radical than that of the Italian/Iranian born Johns Hopkins researcher who authored the controversial study. At least the author admits that Jews have a common genetic makeup.

August 30, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.
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