published Tuesday, February 5th, 2013

Dumbphone

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

158
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
GameOn said...

Third grade second month for creativity.

February 5, 2013 at 12:31 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Says Clay? Limbaugh, who was fired 7? times, earns more money, I'm sure. The Tea Party noticed a problem that Senator Obama considered serious--"unpatriotic"--when it was Bush's problem, and promised to cut in half when he was asking us to make it his problem, but has made worse; indeed he's defending the problem, deficits, against solution. NRA: "More Guns Less Crime" is the facts. Heritage does lots of homework. Drudge and Back may have bees in their bonnets, but they do some interesting journalism. Fox and GOP offer mixed bags. CPAC sounds OK.

Trouble is, Mr Bennett's ideology blinds him--officially as a cartoonist, anyway--to virtue on the right to a ridiculous (and only rarely funny) degree. Wish he'd open his official mind a bit, if his (equally bigoted) bosses will let him. Surely his criticisms of those of us who are right would have more bite, not less, and draw more interest from unpredictability, if he noticed officially that some lefties have faults and that the right has virtue here and there. I will cheerfully admit that he can draw better than I (and for all I know, play the accordion better), and perhaps he'll cheerfully admit his wife can draw better than he, or at least than his cartoons demonstrate.

February 5, 2013 at 12:44 a.m.
Easy123 said...

AndrewLohr,

"indeed he's defending the problem, deficits, against solution."

False. Defecits were only the problem after the economy and unemployment. Now that the economy and unemployment have gotten better, Teabaggers just move on to their next talking point and act like it was the problem all along.

"NRA: "More Guns Less Crime" is the facts."

Demonstrably and verifiably false.

"Heritage does lots of homework. Drudge and Back may have bees in their bonnets, but they do some interesting journalism. Fox and GOP offer mixed bags. CPAC sounds OK."

This is all your opinion.

"Trouble is, AndrewLohr's ideology blinds him to virtue on the Left to a ridiculous (and never truthful) degree."

I fixed it for you.

February 5, 2013 at 12:49 a.m.
MasterBlaster said...

Please don't knock the "Reich Wing Media" Clay, it's the last bastion of idiots in America. Without that, they've got NOTHING. I mean, they certainly can't run a government, or get elected for that matter...

February 5, 2013 at 1:21 a.m.
alprova said...

tu_quoque wrote: "For some people getting in the last word is very important to their self worth ..."

OMG...do you ever look in the mirror? You just described yourself.

February 5, 2013 at 4:29 a.m.
alprova said...

Matt Drudge boasts millions of hits, several times a year. His numbers are only achieved by auto-refreshing his page once a minute while people are attempting to view it.

Of the list noted on the dumbphone, I view the Fox News and Drudge websites each and every day, sometimes several times a day, only because I do not want to completely be out of touch with the right-wing points of view.

Up until the 2004 election, I was hooked on Limbaugh and tuned in each and every weekday. My only source for news was Fox News. I can't pinpoint exactly what turned me off to both, other than a procession of what I discovered to be false attacks on John Kerry at the time, and I assure you that I don't feel any sense of loss after dumping both broadcast sources from my life.

The conservative media counts on their "fans" to never take the time to balance their opinions and "facts" by seeking the truth from alternative sources. I once was as brainwashed as those we wind up arguing with in this forum.

CNN does a great job of providing the news on their cable channel, but I find their website lacking. I rarely spend more than a minute or two perusing it.

Fox News has a great website, and when it comes to news, they are hard to beat, but it is very hard not to notice a recurring anti-Obama agenda. Matt Drudge doesn't even attempt to hide it.

As to the rest of the list, I catch up with those sources once or twice a year, if and when they garner the attention of mainstream media for doing or saying something outrageous.

Even when I considered myself to be a conservative, I always had trouble listening to or watching Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly for more than a couple of minutes at a time. Beck is and always has been in outer-space, and O'Reilly simply comes across way too arrogant for my taste.

By the same token, I switch CNN to NBC News the second that Piers Morgan graces the screen. I do like Rachel Maddow's way with words and her way of looking at the issues.

Not that I have any desire to change today's subject, I am thoroughly relieved that 5 year old Ethan is safe and sound and back in the arms of his parents in Midland, Alabama. God bless Charles Albert Poland Jr., the school bus driver who died trying to protect the children, and God bless the law enforcement personnel who worked day and night to provide a happy conclusion to a very disturbing event.

February 5, 2013 at 5:19 a.m.
fairmon said...

The assumption of most here is if you don't support the democrat agenda you must support the republican agenda which is not true. If you agree with any news source other than the one they support you must either be a liberal or conservative which is not true. The mentality is you must belong to one of the large tribes or in some cases mobs they belong to or you will be assigned to one. The prevailing opinion of democrats is that all republicans are bad and in the opinion of republicans all democrats are bad which is not true. Obama continues to demonstrate his incompetence but no republican is in the picture that would do better. Both parties are so busy talking about guns, gays and other issues the economy and jobs are not given the priority deserved and needed. There could be an equal phone for liberals and democrats.

February 5, 2013 at 6:10 a.m.
EaTn said...

While I agree with the "dumbphone" image, it could also just as well have all the left-wing web icons. Dumb is only reading, watching or listening to sources that support the person's point of view. We used to have a saying in management that if two people have the same ideas and philosophy, one of them is not needed. I try to remember this in selecting my sources of information.

February 5, 2013 at 6:46 a.m.
Rebus said...

Agree with some of ALPO's points. When I want objectivity I go to Ed Schultz and Maddow.

On another topic " A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S., "

But water drops down the nostrils of terrorist is illegal. Curious.

February 5, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I agree that the Justice memo reveals something that needs to be remedied, and indeed the ACLU is already on it-it is way too vague and does not require intelligence information to show that an attack is imminent. However, the conspiracy nuts (you know the Obama is a foreign, marxist, socialist, fascist, muslim, atheist antichrist types) are already saying it is so that Obama can kill US citizens on US soil that rise up against him and become king/dictator/god choose one.

February 5, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.
Maximus said...

No Clay, dumb is 98% of blacks in America voting for Obama when their average annual income is $6,000. Still on the plantation after all these years except food stamps (ebt cards), the low income tax subsidy, the single baby Mama subsidy, obama cell phones and the Democrats are their massers. So sad. Now of course, the Mexicans are next on Axelrods welfare for votes target market list. Mega sad!

February 5, 2013 at 7:33 a.m.
dude_abides said...

You patriotic bunker builders better be paying attention to that Alabama story! You gotta sleep sometime, Bunky Bunker. We will thread fiber optics down your vent tube and catch you balancing your head. Then we'll stage a KISS concert about five feet from your nose. Can you imagine the smell in that 'Konservative Kids Kabin?' Wonder what they meant by "negotiations deteriorating?" Dykes probably started spouting scripture like conservative does on here.

We need more hero bus drivers and less right wing gun nuts.

February 5, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.
ibshame said...

Looks like Turdblossom Rove has some new tricks up his sleeve. LOL I can hardly wait to watch this one play out. He's trying to get rid of the crazies, the dumb and the stupid with all of his left over money from his last LOSING campaign. LOL

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02/karl-rove-new-super-pac-republican-primary-steve-king

"No more Todd Akins. No more Richard Mourdocks. No more Republican primaries that produce divisive, gaffe-spewing GOP candidates.

That's the aim of a new super-PAC, the Conservative Victory Fund, spearheaded by Karl Rove and his big-money juggernaut, American Crossroads. Rove's new project plans to raise millions of dollars from the biggest GOP donors and then spend it on hard-hitting television ads and mailers during GOP primaries in marquee Senate races. The goal, as the New York Times reported this weekend, is blocking future Akins and Mourdocks from winning Senate primaries, while paving the way for less-divisive candidates with broader appeal and better odds of winning the general election."

February 5, 2013 at 7:38 a.m.
ibshame said...

"Maximus said... No Clay, dumb is 98% of blacks in America voting for Obama when their average annual income is $6,000. Still on the plantation after all these years except food stamps (ebt cards), the low income tax subsidy, the single baby Mama subsidy, obama cell phones and the Democrats are their massers. So sad. Now of course, the Mexicans are next on Axelrods welfare for votes target market list. Mega sad!"

No what's sad is this is the kind of ignorance that continually will result in loss after loss for the Republican Party

February 5, 2013 at 7:41 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Conservative, how's it coming with your digging up the definitive Biblical scripture reference that commands us to love the Lord and to be a good neighbor by providing religious instruction to every child enrolled in our public schools?

Didn't you accuse MTJohn of attempting to run and hide?

You run for cover every single time you are cornered. Every time.

What are you afraid of? The truth that there is no such commandment? This is just yet another example of how wrong people can be when they attempt to represent God.

I hate to point out the obvious, but it's no wonder to me why you fear the wrath of God.

February 4, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.

alprova, you are a bloviator. As such you have an immediate advantage over me because you spew so much hate, error and arrogance and it would take an enormous amount of time to correct you. I sleep, I don't stay up all hours of the night reading your bloviations. In fact other than when I have caught you addressing me I know very little about you or what you are bloviating on. I also don't read long comments of others as well. I also never read some here who immediately identify themselves as Liberals, or indicate they are committed atheists who just want to spew hate. However, I will occasionally correct Ike, just to keep her reading me. She doesn't bloviate.

You have given me so much to respond to and correct, that's the advantage I have over you. it will just take time.

February 5, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.
Maximus said...

Ibshame & Dude....I will give it to the Democrats, they had more MBA's, etc. working on the Obama campaigns, Axelrod and Plouf simplye created and executed a better business plan than the Republicans. It was a win but not a mandate. As I recall, the Welfare Pimp Obama won 26 states and Romney won 24. In the state elections, which by the way have the most direct impact on our lives, the Republicans dominated the governorships. Dude, as far as the bunker being a Konservative...come on Dude use spell check..haha....again a crazy person who should have been committed a long time ago was on the loose. Obama should be focusing on revamping our Civil Committment process and laws ravaged by the ACLU years ago instead of universal background checks, etc. Over $16.5 trillion in debt and Obama is flying air force one all over the country doing his feel good, everything is alright comunity organizer thing. Talk about ignorant! The Democrats prey upon the ignorant by trumping up false "social causes" and herding low information voters to the polls. A good business plan that the Republicans are learning. Hello Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio!!

February 5, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Fox News has a great website, and when it comes to news, they are hard to beat, but it is very hard not to notice a recurring anti-Obama agenda. Matt Drudge doesn't even attempt to hide it.

I don't disagree that their actual news reporting is good but their talk show host have a republican bias with Hannity being the most obvious. O'Reilly does try to have a balance but he is so full of himself he is hard to watch and he is obviously a republican. CNN is just as bias the other way. They are all drawn to social issues. Many social issues would dissipate in a robust economy.

It is hard to find a news source that reports only the untainted facts that allow the viewer to reach uninfluenced decisions. Thomas Library is a good source for reviewing bills before congress and what congress is doing if you can read those with multiple references to the voluminous federal register. Good financial advisory newsletters can be expensive but a good source of what and how the economy is likely to be affected by government actions.

February 5, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
ibshame said...

"Maximus said: The Democrats prey upon the ignorant by trumping up false 'social causes' and herding low information voters to the polls..... Hello Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio!"

Yeah right, evidently that Ted Cruz is one smart dude. NOT. LOL

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/02/03/1532701/viewpoint-how-a-very-smart-senator-showed-us-everything-wrong-with-the-modern-gop-in-one-week/

excerpt from article:

"The Republican base elects someone like Cruz, who’s extreme enough to have suggested the United Nations was coming for America’s golf courses. Cruz, who’s not only a ideological member of the base but beholden to it, brings its unsupportable ideas and implacably hostile attitude to the center of the Republican party. And he’s rewarded not just by adulation from his supporters, but widespread praise from the ostensibly serious conservative commentariat. There’s just no incentive for any Republican to speak out against the party’s descent into paranoia, and every reason to believe you’ll be rewarded by giving into it.

So if you want to know why the Republican Party will remain broken for the foreseeable future, go watch the Ted Cruz game tape from this week. And try to think how it could have been otherwise."

February 5, 2013 at 8:46 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Bennett once again sets the example for his robotic name-calling followers.

Beware of the person who thinks they are the "smart" one. Those are the same people who will justify all kinds of misbehaviour in the name of the "better good".

February 5, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Missing the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the Praise the Lord Network, and the 700 Club buttons on the phone.

Do the Pope and Mike Huckabee have their own phones or still using the Dixie cups and string to Jehovah's hot-as-hell line for miracles, murder, and inquisitions?

To save time have one button reading 'Religious Fiction.'

February 5, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

patriot1 said... "Hey all you libs....here's your "smart" phone"

Now THAT is funny. Thanks for sharing.

February 5, 2013 at 9 a.m.
Reardon said...

Yawn -- another no-talent production.

You can do better than this, Clay.

February 5, 2013 at 9:18 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"Conservative, how's it coming with your digging up the definitive Biblical scripture reference that commands us to love the Lord and to be a good neighbor by providing religious instruction to every child enrolled in our public schools?"

Your premise is wrong, you made that up. That is a strawman. There is no commandment of God to provide " religious instruction to every child enrolled in our public schools?" and I have never stated there was such a commandment. Paste where I said that. Again you made that up.

Now, I did write the following, the words in quotes are those of MTJohn :

Now, MTJohn, recall your words:

"Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself."

"I'm all for reforming public education based on that principle"

In your haste to be sanctimonious with me MTJohn, you trapped yourself, as I said before. Someone who truly loved their neighbor and who sought to obey that commandment of God and the words of Jesus would surely seek to instruct school children in God's word.

end

Now, since the teaching of God's word and prayer is mostly forbidden in public schools and you and MTJohn oppose vouchers for children to go to a Christian, Jewish, or Catholic school how would MTJohn's two statements "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." and "I'm all for reforming public education based on that principle" not be a contradiction or in opposition to each other?

Do you think God would actually let you buy with your excuses of "it's public money" or it's a violation of the First Amendment? If that wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable.

Do you not know that all money and wealth belong to God and that you are just a steward of what He has given you? You are to use money God entrusted to you to glorify God. Instructing children in the word of God would certainly glorify God.

"Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God." Ecclesiastes 5:19

"The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the Lord of hosts." Haggai 2:8

February 5, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.
raygunz said...

The subsidization of phones began under President Clinton, and has continued under Presidents Bush and Obama.

Over that time, the usage of cell phones rose and the costs came down. Assuming one believes in the Lifeline program in the first place, and remembering that the FCC has mandated the program, it only makes sense to expand the phone assistance program to include cell phones. So, in 2008 the first application of this program for mobile phones began when a company called Tracfone started their Safelink Wireless service in Tennessee. Aha, some say, that’s the same year Obama was elected! Well, that’s true. But the service in Tennessee was launched three months prior to Obama being elected. And that means the discussion and approval of the extension of the program occurred under President Bush’s watch.

The Bush Phone, anyone?

http://www.freegovernmentcellphones.net/faq/obama-phone

("Dumb Phone" for sure!)

February 5, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.
alprova said...

If people were a bit more interested in being accurate, they would be referring to the free cell phone program for the poor as GWB phones, for the program originated in 2008.

But because TracFone Wireless CEO F.J. Pollak has donated at least $156,500 to Democratic candidates and committees, and everything Democrat is laid directly at Barack Obama's feet, they are known as "Obamaphones."

Who cares? Everyone of you who are beotching about them, pay for them, and have since GWB was President.

As is always the case, you may be entitled to your own opinions, but you will never be entitled to your own facts.

The poor thank you very much for their phones.

February 5, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

D...umb, or, D...emocrat

U...Yes, I'm speaking to U! Democrat

M...urders of Children through Slaughter House Abortionists

B...ennett, as in Clay

...................................................................

P...olitically 'phoney' Democrats

H...ell awaits the 'M' folks above, if they do not repent

O..."When will they ever learn?" 'OH'

N...ut-Wing Democrats

E...nough hypocrisy from the Elitist Democrats

Capische?<<< kwo

February 5, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
limric said...

Pretty funny Clay. You left out one important app. The St. Ronnie app.

Not to be outdone, the Democratic apologists came out with a ‘Chump Phone’. It’s main apps are:

Drone (self-explanatory)

Spy (self-explanatory)

Gitmo (self-explanatory) It gives the user a slight shock. Zzap!

WBS (Whistle Blower Silencer)

Pardoner (for Wall St & the AG)

Shrugged shoulders (Injustice Justifier)

Fisting (Accidental Right wing app)

FT (Free Trade) connects directly to McNEIL-PPC; the manufacturer of KY Jelly.

Jobs (laugh track)

For you Conservative,

As I look very much like Pat (although a little older) think of the 6 minute video below as me speaking directly to you.

[“I don’t respect your beliefs, and I don’t care if you’re offended”.] ~P.C.

February 5, 2013 at 9:53 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Also missing is the Netanyahu/Israeli button, the Three Stooges (McCain, Graham, and Inhofe) button, the Military Occupation button, and the Patriot Act button.

February 5, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"You run for cover every single time you are cornered. Every time."

A false accusation. Not true.

Now, as I said before you are a bloviator and that is an advantage for you if you expect an answer to the volumes you write.

Now, paste one of these "every times" that I may have not responded to and I will respond.

I make my living on the internet so I can not always answer immediately.

February 5, 2013 at 10:17 a.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...Now, since the teaching of God's word and prayer is mostly forbidden in public schools and you and MTJohn oppose vouchers for children to go to a Christian, Jewish, or Catholic school how would MTJohn's two statements "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." and "I'm all for reforming public education based on that principle" not be a contradiction or in opposition to each other?

Conservative - I am going to break the rule that I imposed on you one more time. May we please continue this conversation where it belongs, not here but in the thread where it belongs, i.e. The Check? If you make your living on the internet, I presume that you have sufficient computer skills to manage these conversations in the thread where each belongs.

Once again you have mis-represented what I said. I do not oppose vouchers for parents who send their children to parochial schools! I oppose giving vouchers to parents who can afford to send their children to parochial schools and who choose to not send their children to integrated public schools. I am all for giving parents vouchers if 1) the amount of the vouchers are means tested; 2) if the vouchers are sufficient to pay for the education of the children whose parents can least afford; 3) if the vouchers are used in schools that do not discriminate in their enrollment; and, 4) if the vouchers are used in schools that provide an accredited education.

Please note that I am the product of a parochial school education and I am grateful for it. In school I received both an accredited education and training in the faith tradition in which I was raised. I come from a lower middle class family. It was a financial challenge for my parents to send me and my siblings to parochial school. I never once heard my parents say that they should get a rebate on their school taxes to pay for our education.

If you wish to respond to this post, please copy it into a reply in The Check thread. I will respond to your post there. I will not respond to you again on this subject in this thread.

February 5, 2013 at 10:34 a.m.
conservative said...

SO, you want to aid alprova in charging me with running for cover by going somewhere where no one will read.

Nope, You have often made comments irrelavant to the cartoon just as the regulars here have done.

February 5, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.
limric said...

CLARIFICATION!

Hidden in the Chump Phones ‘Terms of use agreement’ is the following: “Use of the Gitmo app may necessitate a re-boot of your device. Manufacturer accepts NO responsibility for any inconvenience or incidental damages.”

This was added after the app was released (pun intended) because it was found that the app has a strange habit of saying, “Gitmo App shutting down”

….but never does.

February 5, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.
ibshame said...

Now this is what I call good "spectator sports" in the political world of course. LOL Ah let the name-calling and games begin. Nothing like watching this bunch devour each other. Pass the popcorn

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-04/rove-s-move-into-republican-primaries-enrages-tea-party.html

excerpt

"Leaders of the Tea Party and other Republican groups that oppose abortion and gay rights responded by calling Texas-based political strategist Rove, a founder of the victory project, a “fake conservative” who had “declared war” on the Tea Party.

The victory project also was attacked as “Orwellian” by Matt Kibbe, the head of the Washington-based FreedomWorks, which identifies itself as a “grassroots” Tea Party booster.

Rove’s group “is created with the sole operating mission of blocking the efforts of fiscally conservative activists across the country,” Kibbe said, according to the FreedomWorks blog.

Power Struggle

The exchanges provide the first public glimpse of a power struggle inside the Republican Party in the wake of its November losses, including in the presidential campaign. If neither side backs down, the rift could lead to more costly Republican primary fights, with the nominees forced to quickly recover as they confront Democrats in the general election."

February 5, 2013 at 11:16 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

Here is your first comment that I responded to:

MTJohn said... fairmon said...Why not do away with the public school system and issue vouchers allowing students and parents to select a charter school, their choice? Because to do so would be to return to the failed notion of "separate but equal" and, in the case of many of the schools, to perpetuate segregation in the name of Christian education. And, in practice, it would be vouchers would be nothing more than a tax rebate for families that already can afford the cost of private education. If you want to talk about a system in which schools absolutely cannot discriminate in the selection of applicants and a sliding-scale of means-tested vouchers, you might be on to something. Otherwise, all you are doing is promoting a system that rewards private schools that were established in response to Brown v. Board of Public Education and rewards the parents who choose to send their children to those schools. February 2, 2013 at 7:07 a.m.

Now, you accuse me with this :

"Once again you have mis-represented what I said. I do not oppose vouchers for parents who send their children to parochial schools! I oppose giving vouchers to parents who can afford to send their children to parochial schools and who you choose to not send their children to integrated public schools. I am all for giving parents vouchers if 1) the amount of the vouchers are means tested; 2) if the vouchers are sufficient to pay for the education of the children whose parents can least afford; 3) if the vouchers are used in schools that do not discriminate in their enrollment; and, 4) if the vouchers are used in schools that provide an accredited education."

You are trying to change the debate. I have not misrepresented anything. You never even used the word parochial in that first comment of yours. You are now creating new arguments, arguments I won't particpate in after this.

However I will say that this new stuff you bring up seems like a contradiction to me:

"I do not oppose vouchers for parents who send their children to parochial schools!"

immediately followed by:

"I oppose giving vouchers to parents who can afford to send their children to parochial schools and who choose to not send their children to integrated public schools."

It is one or the other isn't it? If you chose to send your child to a parochial school you are chosing not to send your child to integrated public schools? This is common sense and obvious.

February 5, 2013 at 11:45 a.m.
chatt_man said...

The Dummycrat's phone just has one app, the "Blue Pages" app.

Call the Government for all your needs. As long as they can find one productive citizen, left with money they can take, they'll fix your problem at the same time they ask you to vote for them.

February 5, 2013 at 11:48 a.m.
Salsa said...

Clay may need a Dumb Phone to go look for a real job once the TFP goes under.

February 5, 2013 at 12:05 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

Back to my problem with your comment:

"Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself."

"I'm all for reforming public education based on that principle"

You are a professing Christian (your term "liberal Christian") so you should know that you are instructed to teach children the word of God. This is not done in public schools. In fact many things taught in public schools are contrary to the word of God. This is obvious to Christians.

To hide behind integration, public money, or those who lie about the First Amendment as an excuse/reason to not fulfill your own quote from the word of God is preposterous. Your opposition to your own stated belief ("Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.") is hypocrisy. You should be lamenting that public schools have become so unGodly and seeking and advocating that as many as possible escape Satan's domain. I am going to stop, I am getting angry.

February 5, 2013 at 12:17 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative wrote: "You are a professing Christian (your term "liberal Christian") so you should know that you are instructed to teach children the word of God. This is not done in public schools. In fact many things taught in public schools are contrary to the word of God. This is obvious to Christians.

You should be lamenting that public schools have become so unGodly and seeking and advocating that as many as possible escape Satan's domain. I am going to stop, I am getting angry."

You are also getting nuttier. You are why there's a division between religion and government, religion and public schools, and your brand of religious insanity from mainstream Christianity.

Since you're angry maybe you can call down plagues, famine, disease, and eathquakes. Then again, I bet you can't.

But please continue your diatribe. It's very amusing and continues showing everyone the danger of religious fanatics, whether Christian, Muslim, or Jew.

February 5, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Salsa....there may be something to that TFP thing... I was in BI-LO the other day and what do you know, a lady with a booth set up peddling the TFP. When hit on, I told her I had cancelled not long ago and was not interested. I'm thinking of complaining to the service desk in the store about the soliciting.

February 5, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
caddy said...

http://www.gocomics.com/garyvarvel/2013/02/04

Varvel has it right. Rousseau-inspired cultural Marxists ( Like Clay and his presidential "idol" ) aim to convert our country from a virtue-based community to a wilderness of wildly autonomous selves. In Rousseau's own words, these elites seek to "force us to be free" -- free in particular from self-evident and objective truth.

As has been the case for the last four years, this state-sanctioned amorality will be bureaucratically implemented and ignored by a pornography-addled media invested in the system's success. Resistance to this attack on virtue will occur in the social issue trenches, be exhausting but faith-enabled, and likely require court intervention.

Realization of the good and happiness presupposes knowledge of reality. Are virtues good or enslaving? Is marriage a loving vocation or an enemy of fulfillment? Our hearts and minds tell us one thing. Cultural Marxists see it differently and thus destroy much that is good.

Because we are human, we often fail to do the right thing, but policies that encourage vice are another matter entirely. Cultural Marxism would make us prodigal sons, irresponsible and unhappy. The prodigal son would eat swine husks, thus cultural Marxism opposes dignity. (This paragraph's use of "sons" is another oppressive institution; by extension, so are grammar, language, and biblical references.)

For those who say other wise I continue to say, ok: By what "Standard" do you derive your logic, meaning, and existence. It comes from one of three places. There really are no other answers. 1 ) God above 2 ) the State 3 ) the Individual.

February 5, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
GatorFan said...

Oh hahaha...so clever Clay. I don't agree with it so therefore it's dumb, right? I really never comment on these ignorant cartoons but I really felt the need. These things are just pathetic. Why can't the TFP get someone better, with more interesting ideas?

February 5, 2013 at 12:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said...Varvel has it right. Rousseau-inspired cultural Marxists ( Like Clay and his presidential "idol" ) aim to convert our country from a virtue-based community to a wilderness of wildly autonomous selves.

I wouldn't put much stock in your assumption that this country has ever been a virtue-based community. I presume the alternative to "marxism" that you would advocate is free-market capitalism. The latter, in reality, is deeply rooted in greed and really is free only for those with sufficient wealth and power to compromise the freedoms of those less fortunate than themselves. There is nothing virtuous about that system. It's just a different form of evil.

February 5, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
Rebus said...

Site growing tedious what with Bennett masquerading as several posters. Why not just nut-up Clay and use your real name. Would be simpler. Sayoeffinara, losers.

February 5, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
caddy said...

Fair enough, MTjohn

I'll concur with Friedman: "Show me what country that doesn't base it's productive energy on Greed". I want to know along with him, what angels are going to construct this society. DO you really think that Socialists and Communists don't operate on Greed ? If you do, you are a fool.

February 5, 2013 at 1:30 p.m.
cicerone said...

Based on the cartoon, the criteria for discerning who is dumb or not dumb would put Karl Marx and Vlad Lenin as the least dumb in recent centuries.

February 5, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
caddy said...

Being that they were "successful" Absolutely. I agree, cicerone. They knew full well what they were doing.

February 5, 2013 at 1:38 p.m.
caddy said...

Clearly, cultural Marxism doesn't work. It is unreasonable, has victims, and is societal suicide -- but will it dominate here? Recent politics indicates so. The Democrat convention was an abortion love-fest, and Barack Obama was re-elected. However, his slim 2.6% margin and key voting groups may offer hope:


Pro-Obama (Obama-Romney%)
Black (93-6)
Hispanic Catholic (75-21)
Worship Less than Weekly (55-44) Female (55-44)


Anti-Obama (Romney-Obama%) White Protestant/Christian (69-30) White Catholic (59-40) Worship Weekly or More (59-39) Male (52-45)


And this question of hope is one of values. Specifically, is there any group in the Top column for which virtue is more compelling than free stuff, other things being equal and traditional safety nets being sufficient? Who is a ready ally of self-evident truth and virtue? At 13% and 10% of the electorate, respectively, black and Hispanic voters merit examination.

February 5, 2013 at 1:42 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn,

So, your first comment after your comment about comments that do not pertain to the cartoon is one that doesn't pertain to the cartoon.

Yikes!

February 5, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
caddy said...

MTjohn

I was SPECIFICALLY answering your question here:

"I presume the alternative to "Marxism" that you would advocate is free-market capitalism. The latter, in reality, is deeply rooted in greed and really is free only for those with sufficient wealth and power to compromise the freedoms of those less fortunate than themselves. There is nothing virtuous about that system. It's just a different form of evil."

Now, you can play the elusive game of trying to throw back to the original cartoon and evade the answer that I gave you concerning "greed" or you can just continue to evade my answer to your question like all liberals tend to do.

February 5, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
caddy said...

LOL, "Conservative" !

Me thinks MTjohn is flustered. He probably truly thinks Marxist and Socialist are kind, loving people, not greedy at all. ; D

February 5, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.
caddy said...

Of course he doesn't understand what you and I know: There is no good model, Biblical or other wise, for Taking from one man and giving to another man.

Let's look at the assertion. Many Christians seem to miss the point, thinking that expropriation ( a fancy word for taking from one giving to another ) is wrong just because the wrong groups are in power, choosing the wrong causes for subsidy. This is where the horror stories are offered, and horrible they are: of subsidies to promote abortion, subsidies to photograph crucifixes in jars of urine, subsidies for all sorts of wickedness and blasphemy. But expropriation would be wrong even if each of its causes were good. Consider the following progression.

1. On a dark street, a man draws a knife and demands my money
   for drugs.

2. Instead of demanding my money for drugs, he demands it for
   the Church.

3. Instead of being alone, he is with a bishop of the Church
   who acts as bagman.

4. Instead of drawing a knife, he produces a policeman who
   says I must do as he says.

5. Instead of meeting me on the street, he mails me his demand
   as an official agent of the government.

If the first is theft, it is difficult to see why the other four are not also theft. Expropriation is wrong not because its causes are wrong, but because it is a violation of the Eighth Commandment: Thou shalt not steal.

There is always wisdom to Biblical truth. Always.

February 5, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

The only thing I want to know at this point is why every one of Clay's cartoons is not bashing non-liberals or promoting the Democratic Party platform. The other occasional random thoughts are just a distraction from the real political support of this newspaper for the Democratic party.

February 5, 2013 at 1:59 p.m.
caddy said...

Back to Cultural Marxism. Would that the Black population would see that abortion is systematically destroying its own race.

Unfortunately, it seems that many black voters are cultural Marxists. Barack Obama embraced gay marriage between 2008 and 2012, and his black support barely budged (slipping from 96% to 93%). Likewise, black illegitimate births have peaked at 72.5% of all black births, and nearly half of all young black women have genital herpes.

Black Americans are also major aborters. Since Roe v. Wade, one-third of the black population has been eliminated -- 13 million black babies totaling 40-plus percent of all abortions, despite that only 6% of U.S. women are blackiii. This nihilistic self-induced genocide is consistent with cultural Marxism. Pray not, but some combination of cultural Marxism, redistribution, and race preference seems likely to anchor black voters in the left column, even if to their detriment.

February 5, 2013 at 2 p.m.
caddy said...

Good Catch, Praire Dog. Ask yourself if liberals truly want cultural diversity, posit: "The next time some academics tell you how important 'diversity' is, ask how many Republicans there are in their sociology department."

Clay and liberals like him care nothing about diversity of opinion. I would at least be bold enough to say so as well. I just want "Truth." Liberals want their view of the truth. We all know why they are far from it though don't we ! ?

February 5, 2013 at 2:04 p.m.
conservative said...

caddy:

No doubt in my mind MTJohn is a Socialist. His past comments to me have left no doubt in my mind.

I hope you will participate more often. I would love to refute every one of the Liberal/Socialist/Demoncrat comments directed at me here but there are just too many of them. I just try to take on the worst ones.

Many I believe are so incorrigible that I don't read them. Watch, one of them will ask "How can you know that if you haven't read them LOL yuck, yuck) Well, once you read one blaspheming God their creator, You know their MO from now on.

February 5, 2013 at 2:06 p.m.
ibshame said...

"patriot1 said... Salsa....there may be something to that TFP thing... I was in BI-LO the other day and what do you know, a lady with a booth set up peddling the TFP. When hit on, I told her I had cancelled not long ago and was not interested. I'm thinking of complaining to the service desk in the store about the soliciting."

Be sure when you start complaining about the TFP soliciting, you also lodge a complaint against the Girl Scouts when they start peddling their cookies in front of the store or on the parking lot. LOL And now for today's edition of why the South is considered to be the epicenter of ignorance for the Nation, about the only good thing, this time it's not some ignoramus from Tennessee

"High school teacher suspended for 'fat butt Michelle Obama' remark"

'Alabama high school psychology teacher Bob Grisham has been suspended for 10 days without pay for a rant that included calling the first lady 'fat butt Michelle Obama.'

During a debate-type discussion about current affairs in his class on Jan. 27, Grisham blamed the school’s low-calorie lunch offerings on “fat butt Michelle Obama.’’ He also added, “Look at her. She looks like she weighs 185 or 190. She’s overweight.’’

In that same class, he also voiced his disdain for homosexuals.

'I don’t believe in queers,' he said. “I don’t like queers. I don’t hate them as a person, but what they do is wrong and an abomination against God.' Grisham told Florence, Alabama's Times Daily last week that he misspoke during the debate in his class.'

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/2013/02/05/16852482-high-school-teacher-suspended-for-fat-butt-michelle-obama-remark?lite

February 5, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.
caddy said...

Ibshame, don't you know the 1st Amendment is NEXT on the Chopping Block ? ; D

You REALLY can't speak your mind in a "government" school.

http://www.gocomics.com/chuckasay/2013/01/16

February 5, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said...Now, you can play the elusive game of trying to throw back to the original cartoon and evade the answer that I gave you concerning "greed" or you can just continue to evade my answer to your question like all liberals tend to do.

Is this the answer to my question that I was trying to evade or did you ask me something else??

caddy said...He probably truly thinks Marxist and Socialist are kind, loving people, not greedy at all.

Wrong. I don't.

conservative said...No doubt in my mind MTJohn is a Socialist. His past comments to me have left no doubt in my mind.

Conservative, fwiw, I agree with what Amos and some of the other prophets had to said about the ungodly behavior of those those with wealth and power. In my opinion, the same criticism applies to free-market capitalism as it is practiced in this country. Love your neighbor leads to concern those less fortunate than myself. It does not lead me to embrace socialism

February 5, 2013 at 2:30 p.m.
ibshame said...

"caddy said... Ibshame, don't you know the 1st Amendment is NEXT on the Chopping Block ? ; D You REALLY can't speak your mind in a "government" school."

You and Conservative just got through spouting all your bs about your religious beliefs which you have a right to do on this forum because people can choose to read your bs or pass it over like I usually do when I see the posts by conservative. However, when a teacher is in a public school funded by taxpayers who have various religious beliefs he/she has no such right to spout his/her beliefs in front of a captive audience. Most students who don't share those beliefs or as in this case might themselves be gay would feel intimidated by the remarks of the 'AUTHORITY FIGURE, THE TEACHER The teacher's role is to teach the students the value of having Free Speech as a privilege in this country, it is not to teach intolerance.

February 5, 2013 at 2:38 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"Conservative, fwiw, I agree with what Amos and some of the other prophets had to said about the ungodly behavior of those those with wealth and power. In my opinion, the same criticism applies to free-market capitalism as it is practiced in this country. Love your neighbor leads to concern those less fortunate than myself. It does not lead me to embrace socialism"

If I understood correctly all of that, then I agree with you. However that is a present comment and not any "past comments" as you quoted me.

I will add that many of the patriarchs of of the Gospel were extremly wealthy beginning with Abraham, a wealth given to them by God. Also God imposed no redistributive tax on them other than a nominal tax for the poor through the law given to Moses. Certainly no confiscatory redistributive tax as we have today.

February 5, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said...Of course he doesn't understand what you and I know: There is no good model, Biblical or other wise, for Taking from one man and giving to another man.

Caddy - add one more example to your list. The lobbyist who, on behalf of a multi-national corporation, most of which are in league with the apps on the "Dumbphone", "buys" a congressman who, in gratitude, supports laws and regulations that make it possible to rip off at least the nation if not the rest of the world.

No. That's not theft. And, it's not expropriation. It's free market capitalism.

February 5, 2013 at 2:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...I will add that many of the patriarchs of of the Gospel were extremly wealthy beginning with Abraham, a wealth given to them by God. Also God imposed no redistributive tax on them other than a nominal tax for the poor through the law given to Moses. Certainly no confiscatory redistributive tax as we have today.

A couple of points, Conservative. Unlike the Patriarchs, you and I do not live in a theocracy. Regardless of the amount of the tax for the poor, the Patriarchs and all who lived under Deuteronomic Law were instructed to care for the poor and, specifically, prohibited from taking advantage of the poor for their own benefit. Free market capitalism in this country functions in opposition to such teachings.

The second point, Scripture does not/should not direct how our country functions. However, it should instruct people like you and caddy and me, who profess that Scripture is God's Inspired Word, in what it means to be responsible citizens. From that perspective, I cannot advocate in support of public policy that would perpetuate the cycle of poverty nor can I support public policy that would allow the wealthy and powerful to take advantage of those who are caught up in poverty.

February 5, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Ib.....There's a difference in a for profit business, which the TFP is supposed to be, and a non profit such as the Girl Scouts selling cookies, IMO ....I know that "profit motive" is a dirty word to you libs. In addition, with the Girl Scouts, you at least are getting something.

February 5, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn;

They practised a form of capitalism and many became quite wealthy even with the taxes.

God never promised wealth for all. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us. There has always been a disparity in wealth.

If Liberals likeminded as you lived in that day I dare say they would be castigating Abraham, Issac and Jacob for their wealth.

Finally,one can be dirt poor and be as greedy as Al Gore. Few people in our country are really poor. We have the richest poor people in the world. They just want more than God has given them and so are envious (a great sin ) of others.

February 5, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

caddy said... There is always wisdom to Biblical truth. Always."

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

"But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (II Kings 18:27)

Moral: Don't eat or drink with Caddy, Conservative, Orr, or Lohr.

February 5, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
mozemoose said...

Taking political discourse to a new low. Nice job, really.

February 5, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"We have the richest poor people in the world. They just want more than God has given them and so are envious (a great sin) of others. --conservative"

For the sake of clarification, should poor people pull themselves up by the boot-straps and make a better life for themselves in accordance with that makers and takers narrative that is parroted so frequently? Or are poor people who strive for more physical comforts going against God's will? Is God like a secret santa? Are rich folks really job creators who should be celebrated or just greedy old sinners that pursued things not granted them from on high?

As a child I was kicked out of Sunday school for asking too many questions. I should know better.

February 5, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

"I hate to point out the obvious, but it's no wonder to me why you fear the wrath of God."

Why don't you fear the wrath of God alprova?

February 5, 2013 at 4:42 p.m.
Anklejive said...

Good one! But rather than "Dumbphone" I would have captioned it, "Apps For Saps."

February 5, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

conservative said... "Why don't you fear the wrath of God?"

Because there's no god (or Jehovah, YHWY, Zeus, Satan, or Boogy-man).

But there is a pesky fly in my office. Reckon that's the fly of God coming to lay eggs on my bagel with a schmear?

February 5, 2013 at 5:53 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"You run for cover every single time you are cornered. Every time."

A false accusation. Not true.

Now, as I said before you are a bloviator and that is an advantage for you if you expect an answer to the volumes you write.

Now, paste one of these "every times" that I may have not responded to and I will respond.

February 5, 2013 at 6:35 p.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

"A false accusation. Not true."

You're a liar.

"Now, paste one of these "every times" that I may have not responded to and I will respond."

There isn't enough room to paste all of the times you've ignored posts directed at you.

You aren't fooling anyone. Posting the same things over and over does nothing for your argument. And denying those accusations only makes you a liar.

February 5, 2013 at 6:47 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...They practised a form of capitalism and many became quite wealthy even with the taxes...God never promised wealth for all. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us. There has always been a disparity in wealth.

Conservative - we do not really know, based on the Scriptures, the form of the economic system in effect during the during the period covered by the OT and NT. We do know from the writings of the prophets that the wealthy often failed in their duty to the poor. And, we know from the book of Acts that the early Christians were encouraged to live in a communal system. Jesus did say that the poor would always be with us. However, Scripture is very clear that the wealthy were NOT to take advantage of the disenfranchised. Free market capitalism, as practiced in this country, fails the Amos test!

http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/04/the-most-important-chart-in-american-politics/?hpt=hp_t2

February 5, 2013 at 6:55 p.m.
conservative said...

MtJohn:

How long have you practiced Socialism?

February 5, 2013 at 7:22 p.m.
Easy123 said...

An individual cannot "practice" Socialism. Socialism is an economic system. You have no idea what Socialism is and that question alone proves your ignorance on the subject.

February 5, 2013 at 7:31 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - I have never advocated socialism. I have advocated that this country ought to walk its talk regarding equal opportunity for all.

February 5, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

What do you practice MTJohn?

February 5, 2013 at 7:51 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"Conservative - we do not really know, based on the Scriptures, the form of the economic system in effect during the during the period covered by the OT and NT."

Baloney! The economic system in the Bible was a form of capitalism. People owned property MTJohn! Abraham, Issac and Jacob were extremly wealthy owning much land and property in the form of land and cattle MTJohn. The tithe was a tax, taking a small portion of the Jews wealth. They kept the rest of their property MTJohn, their property was not distributed equality to their workers or servants. The Jews paid confiscatory taxes to Rome when they were under it's rule, yet they still owned property. The taxman was loathed by all the people because of it's confiscatory taxes. He would be loved by you Liberals today.

Remember Peter MTJohn, he was a fisherman, he owned a boat. A boat is property. He made a living fishing. There are many references to people owning homes as well. A home is property, this is capitalism MTJohn.

Remember Ruth MTJohn, who worked in the fields harvesting grain on land owned by Boaz. This was capitalism MTJohn. The Bible is replete with examples of capitalism.

Where did you get your anti Biblical anti capitalism indoctrination MTJohn?

February 5, 2013 at 8:07 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - I live in the United States. Unless I chose to live like a hermit - if I did, I would not have a computer and internet access and wouldn't be having this conversation with you (maybe I should rethink the lifestyle of a hermit ;) )- I have no choice but to participate in the American (and very corrupt) economic system. While I do so, I advocate for change - change that would move the American myth in the direction toward the American dream. I also support two local faith-based initiatives which are consistent with the commandment to love neighbor - our local food bank and Family Promise and a couple of global mission projects that serve disenfranchised people in other countries.

February 5, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...Baloney! The economic system in the Bible was a form of capitalism.

Conservative - when was the last time that you read Genesis? The Patriarchs were nomads. Abraham was promised land but, expect for his burial plot, he never got any. They did own their livestock and they owned their slaves (no capitalism for them). Jacob was a trickster and built his flocks my out maneuvering his father-in-law (well, maybe Jacob was a free-market economist American-style). Ruth gleaned Boaz's fields and could do so because Boaz obeyed the commandment that required him to leave grain in the field for the poor.

The Israelites were a dominant economic force in the promised land only during the reign of David and Solomon. The whole land was in flux as empires rose and fell. It wasn't until Rome gained control of the region that there was some sense of continuity and it was the Romans who defined the economic system, not the Israelites and not the early Christians. Your reference to Roman taxes, argues against a free-market operating in the Holy Land at the time of Christ. Peter was a fisherman. Scripture doesn't tell us what he owned and Scripture does not tell us anything about the economic principles that governed the markets into which he sold his fish.

I got my anti-capitalism "indoctrination" from the Decalogue. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not covet. Greed is the driver for free market economics and the system rewards thieves!

February 5, 2013 at 8:25 p.m.
Maximus said...

Limric, what tha....who is the old Brit perv in the sweater, one of your gay lovers? Really, if that is the case there ain't a thing wrong with it. He could lead a boy scout troop without a problem. I would stay away from his tent though! I am sure he would help the boys earn their WRESTLING NAKED merit badge. So glad Obama came out in favor of gay scout leaders. That is such a burning issue of national importance.....zzzzzzzzz? I do have Clay's doodle figured out:

Republicans respond with the TRUTH. Democrats call us ignorant.

A tactic right out of Rules For Radicals. Leftists are so predictable and of course, always end badly. Just leave things up to the government officials, after all, they know what's best for us! Famous last words. Had some of you soft commies been around in the 1770's America would still be flying the Union Jack! "Come on guys the King looks soooo nice in his robes and he has such a nice manicure, he means well with that tea tax, leave him alone you guys he will take care of us. Oh look, there's Elton John and his new husband. So sweet. I love being a British subject, that George Washington can jump in the Hudson River and freeze to death for all I care." Like I said, famous last words of a soft central planning loving, fool a.k.a.....the Welfare Pimp Loving Democrats!

February 5, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"And, we know from the book of Acts that the early Christians were encouraged to live in a communal system"

Yes, but this was only temporary. In Acts chapter 2 Jews from all nations were gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. This is when the Holy Spirit came and indwelt believers. There were thus THREE THOUSAND souls added to the church. These first believers stayed awhile to learn the doctrines of Christianity. They were away from their homes in distant lands. They needed food, shelter and clothing. Those new Christians who resided in Jerusalem sold their possessions to share with these from far away. Again this was only temporary.

February 5, 2013 at 8:39 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn;

Ownership of property is capitalism MTJohn. Yes, people are often greedy but that doesn't mean capitalism is wrong.

One can be dirt poor and be greedy and envious and covetous. This is not the fault of capitalism.

Socialism is a great evil. Those who would take away the property of others by gun or government force are the envious, the greedy and covetous. Communism and Socialism are two sides of the same coin. Socialist countries are largely Godless countries. They are strongly opposed to capitalism as you seem to be and that is why Christians are often persecuted in the Comunist/Socialist countries. God and Socialism can not abide in many countries.

February 5, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative wrote: "The Bible is replete with examples of capitalism."

Easy to have that money when you have all those slaves god gives you.

The Bible is also full of adultery, rape, murder, genocide, incest, torture, intolerance, and hate for outsiders.

But God loves ya!

February 5, 2013 at 9:06 p.m.
Easy123 said...

conservative,

"Ownership of property is capitalism MTJohn."

Not exclusively.

"Those who would take away the property of others by gun or government force are the envious, the greedy and covetous."

Not exactly. That's not really how Socialism works anyway. It's difficult to be greedy when everyone has the same amount of stuff.

"Socialist countries are largely Godless countries."

False. Typically the leaders of these countries are self-proclaimed gods. North Korea and the USSR are good examples.

"They are strongly opposed to capitalism as you seem to be and that is why Christians are often persecuted in the Comunist/Socialist countries."

Non sequitur.

"God and Socialism can not abide in many countries."

Depends on which god you're talking about.

February 5, 2013 at 9:19 p.m.
aidehua said...

Clay Bennett is a bigoted idiot.

February 5, 2013 at 9:29 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "You are a professing Christian (your term "liberal Christian") so you should know that you are instructed to teach children the word of God. This is not done in public schools. In fact many things taught in public schools are contrary to the word of God. This is obvious to Christians."

There ya' go contradicting yourself again.

PLEASE...for the love of God, post the relevant scripture that instructs us to teach children the word of God in public schools.

And if you don't mind, please cite, specifically, that which is taught in schools, that is contrary to God's word. Don't forget to cite the relevant scripture to back it all up.

February 5, 2013 at 9:38 p.m.
alprova said...

Chnrino wrote: "Your opposition to your own stated belief ("Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.") is hypocrisy."

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

"You should be lamenting that public schools have become so unGodly and seeking and advocating that as many as possible escape Satan's domain. I am going to stop, I am getting angry."

You are entitled to your own opinions, but never to your own facts.

A secular curriculum is neither Godly or any indication of Satan's domain.

How would you feel if someone were to step into a church and demand that equal time, or any time for that matter, be dedicated to allowing people to participate in a rave party?

There is a time and a place for everything, and religious instruction and worship belongs in the church. Public schools are for secular education. Deal with it.

February 5, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

Let me clarify something I often charge you and others with being. When I say you are a Socialist I don't mean that you are actually practicing Socialism, I mean you advocate it for others or for the U.S. to be a Socialist country. Socialist are invariably hypocrites on this.

You say you are not a Socialist but your words reek of it :

"I live in the United States. Unless I chose to live like a hermit I have no choice but to participate in the American (and very corrupt) economic system."

Your words reek of dislike for America and its economic system. You are troubled that you own a computer (property) and have internet access. You sound like a sixties hippie.

MTJohn, you don't have to own that computer or subscribe to internet service but you do. You imply that you are forced to own this property.

I can't help but wonder that you would like to like to live off government welfare and foodstamps but have been rejected because you are in good health, able bodied and own to much capitalistic property.

Furthermore, since there are so many Liberals/Socialists/Demoncrats who preach your beliefs, why don't you and those get together sell all your goods and have everything in common?

February 5, 2013 at 9:50 p.m.
conservative said...

Don't have time for you tonight alprova, I sleep. You had all day. I will deal with you tomorrow.

February 5, 2013 at 9:54 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

"When I say you are a Socialist I don't mean that you are actually practicing Socialism, I mean you advocate it for others or for the U.S. to be a Socialist country."

No, you don't mean that. Remember when you said this: "How long have you practiced Socialism?".

No one has advocated Socialism anyway.

"You say you are not a Socialist but your words reek of it :"

The quote you gave from MTJohn implies nothing about Socialism.

"Your words reek of dislike for America"

MTJohn's words made no mention of disliking America either.

"You imply that you are forced to own this property."

You did not logically come to that conclusion.

"I can't help but wonder that you would like to like to live off government welfare and foodstamps but have been rejected because you are in good health, able bodied and own to much capitalistic property."

Baseless and utterly fallacious.

"Furthermore, since there are so many Liberals/Socialists/Demoncrats who preach your beliefs, why don't you and those get together sell all your goods and have everything in common?"

Again, you have no clue what Socialism is.

February 5, 2013 at 9:58 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Don't have time for you tonight alprova, I sleep."

Nighty Night...

"You had all day."

I've got a business to run. While I can find time some days to pop in, today was not one of them.

"I will deal with you tomorrow."

There's really no need. You know and I know that there is nothing contained in the Bible that commands anyone to provide a non-secular education in public schools, as you claimed once again, after denying that you made such a statement.

You're convoluted understanding of the Bible is really getting old.

You are entitled to your opinions, but you're never entitled to your own facts.

Regardless of the amount you pay in taxes, a very small slice of it goes to the poor, but you begrudge every single cent of it.

You clearly feel that your religious values should be taught to all children in public schools, and that you should be granted the right to utilize taxpayer funds to place your kids in the religious school of your choice.

You project all that you loathe on other people. Debating with you about anything is fast becoming pointless. Post what you want.

You tend to your own soul and I'll tend to mine.

February 5, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
GameOn said...

alprova said Regardless of the amount you pay in taxes, a very small slice of it goes to the poor, but you begrudge every single cent of it.

No one begrudges the small amount of taxes going to the poor. We begrudge the majority amount of taxes mismanaged by the incompetent fools, in both parties, in DC. The sooner we realize neither party cares about us. The better off, we are going to be. The only time we exist is 6 months before an election. The rest of the time, 98% of them are stealing us blind.

February 5, 2013 at 11:44 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...Yes, but this was only temporary. In Acts chapter 2 Jews from all nations were gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost.

Try again, Conservative: 32 Now the full number of those who believed were of kone heart and lsoul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but mthey had everything in common. 33 And with great npower the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and ogreat grace was upon them all. 34 pThere was not a needy person among them, for qas many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold 35 and rlaid it at the apostles' feet, and sit was distributed to each as any had need. 36 Thus Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barnabas (which means tson of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, 37 sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and ulaid it at the apostles' feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

conservative said...Yes, people are often greedy but that doesn't mean capitalism is wrong...Socialism is a great evil.

Yes, people are often greedy and free market capitalism runs on greed. Socialism is a great evil. So is capitalism.

conservative said...Your words reek of dislike for America and its economic system.

I dislike this country enough that I served honorably in the military. What is on your DD214? And, if my words reek of dislike for America, then you do not know how to read for comprehension. What I dislike is those who use our system to take advantage of those less fortunate than themselves. And, I dislike the behavior of those who profess to be Christian but support the political agenda of those who would use our system to take advantage of the less fortunate.

conservative said...I can't help but wonder that you would like to like to live off government welfare and foodstamps but have been rejected because you are in good health, able bodied and own to much capitalistic property.

I had one opportunity to apply for unemployment and it would have been a benefit for which I was legitimately entitled because I had just been honorably separated from the military. I declined the opportunity.

By the way, bearing false witness against your neighbor is also a great evil and you seem to do that regularly.

February 6, 2013 at 12:18 a.m.
caddy said...

MTJohn

All that can be derived from your piece is to be able to understand WHY men -- and all systems ( Capitalism & Socialism, Communist ) are in-perfect. It is really very simple: The fall and depravity of man.

Keep in mind that Rome was a much more "religious" empire than the U.S. It had scores of 'gods'. It did not care which god you worshiped. All that was required at the end of the day was that you bowed the knee to Caesar. Rome, as it developed from a City-State to an empire, presented itself as "the City of Justice, belonging to all humanity." This Greater Rome was man's vehicle of salvation. Cicero hailed Octavian as a savior. "In him we place our hopes of liberty; from him we have already received salvation ( Philippics, V, vxiii,49." Cicero spoke of Rome as "the light of the world, the guardian of all nations ( Philippics, IV vi, 14.) Fast forward to Jamie Foxx, calling B.Obama, "Our Lord and Savior." Draw your inference.

Marxist socialist states, Fabian socialist orders, or in the democracies, political salvation means coercion. The state has a plan, and man and society must submit to the predestined Procrustean pattern. Now, I'm part of that society, that society that I have absolutely no confidence in when it strays from simple biblical maxims of order, justice, fiscal responsibility. With that said, this world was NEVER meant to be heaven on earth, because the dominion Christ came to establish was NOT political, although it would have political repercussions and effect as men came under Christ's dominion. Humanism speaks of man's goodness, but, practically, it moves in terms of man's depravity, because its plan for paradise is to coerce men into goodness as the state defines it.

So step back a little. When has ANY society in the history of the world lived in an idyllic setting ? Answer: none have, and none ever will. Christianity knows why: The Depravity of man is verifiable, historical, individually evident if one is simply honest with ones self, looks back over the history of man.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it is the best system on earth in a fallen world that takes into account the fallenness of each and every man.

February 6, 2013 at 9:48 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

The Depravity of Christianity, the Bible, and all revealed religion is verifiable, historical, individually evident if one is simply honest with ones self, looks back over the history of man.

And Jesus said to his followers "I have been sent to spread his word!". A young man raised his hand and asked "What word?". Jesus looked puzzled, "Have you not heard my son about the word?". "No", replied the young man "what word?"............and Jesus leaned over to the young man " A ba ba bird bird bird, bird is the word!". Fonzirella 3:16

February 6, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said...All that can be derived from your piece is to be able to understand WHY men -- and all systems ( Capitalism & Socialism, Communist ) are in-perfect. It is really very simple: The fall and depravity of man.

We agree on that point. Humans are corrupt and we corrupt everything that we touch. (but, you and I both know the story doesn't end there - that's just a different conversation)

caddy said...Capitalism is not perfect, but it is the best system on earth in a fallen world that takes into account the fallenness of each and every man.

With a minor rewrite, I can agree. Capitalism is not perfect, but it is the best system on earth in a fallen world that takes into account the fallenness of each and every man and their denial of their need for repentance.

And, if we work from that definition, people of faith - in this case, you, conservative and I - cannot defend it because capitalism harms our neighbors. We can accept that capitalism is what it is and, as citizens in a country that functions on that model, we can't escape it. We can and we have a duty to challenge the negative side of capitalism.

February 6, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
caddy said...

Fair enough, Darwin: You tell me what the history of man shows. 2) Do we have to teach our children values and what "good" means--Yes or No ?? All Children do what comes naturally, namely to be selfish and self-centered. You don't have to "teach" children to be "bad." They do that naturally.

Take some time and support your position. This should be fun to watch...and read.

February 6, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.
caddy said...

MTjohn, Capitalism does not "harm" my neighbor if I take Christ's directive "to love my brother as myself." Remember: there is no reward in heaven when the state takes from one man and gives it to another. Given salvation is ours, there WILL be a reward for what we do for our brothers "SPECIFICALLY." We are all called to be our brother's keeper and we are all called to care for those in need, the poor. Remember also what Christ said: "The poor you will have with you always." The policies of the 60s fixed nothing. You can't throw money at a sin problem and "fix" it. Sinful men will always tend toward sloth, laziness for a reason -- Depravity. The Church made a mistake in letting the state take the reigns in the 60s. Caring for the poor is and always was ... the job of the Church. Again, this world was never meant to be our final home. All problems and the misery of man is not going to be "fixed" here, but we have hope that it will be in the world to come.

People can't do that naturally. IT's against everything they are. All men are born with a default mode of "corruption" and self-centeredness. Socialism, Marxism, Communism doesn't root that out. When evil people at the top take from one and give to another, tell me how is that good ? The only way that could be good is IF the person at the very top was Absolutely good, all-knowing--in essence: He would have to be God.

Christ's kingdom comes by Grace, and it restores man, whereas political salvation supressess. Rome sought to be the City of Justice and became a city which even its emperors abandoned for other havens. But of Christ Zechariah says, "He is just." His law gives men the means to liberty, dominion, and prosperity, and He, as the just ruler, is faithful to His Word ( Deut 28 ).

February 6, 2013 at 11:48 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Caddy - when the wealthy/powerful succeed at the expense of the poor and the weak, capitalism does, indeed, harm your neighbor. And, capitalism works because, at least within limits, it not only allows but rewards those who take advantage of others. How can you be your brother's keeper and defend a system like that?

Please note that I am not advocating throwing money at the problem. I am advocating reducing/eliminating the problem. We can't do that without spending money so I advocate against simply shutting off funding for social programs, for public education etc. I do advocate for spending the money we commit to those programs more intelligently and if we can do more and do so intelligently, yes, we should spend more.

I'm not advocating socialism anymore than I advocate capitalism - both are tickets on the train to hell!

Yes, we are saved by Grace. We already walk with our right foot in the fulfillment of the promised new heaven and earth. Regardless of which economic system we choose, it leads in the opposite direction. Whenever we lead with our left foot, we are going to stumble.

February 6, 2013 at 12:14 p.m.
caddy said...

I'll simply point you to Friedman again:

What angels are you going to get to construct this society of yours, MTjohn. I live in the real world. In the real world, there has been no idyllic system and there never will be.

The system of "Greed" as Freidman describes it is the best a fallen world can offer. SO, I'll challenge you with the same challenge he offered Donahue: Do you think any other society in the history of man doesn't run on "Greed" ? Wake up man.

Let's deal with what is. The world runs, as he says, on individuals perusing their separate interest. Now, that's not a bad thing. It can be a wonderful thing coupled with the New Birth. Only then can we have the best of both world: Men perusing his separate interest, but caring for SPECIFIC men that God puts in his own slice of Earth.

Let's be honest here. God is VERY specific in His intention. After all, how many people were saved during Noah's time ? The answer: Noah and His family.

February 6, 2013 at 12:50 p.m.
caddy said...

Lastly MTJohn, it's simply foolish to have compassion on "Humanity." Christ calls YOU and ME to have compassion on those in our own slice of earth.

Chesterton said it best:

"Christ did not love humanity; He never said He loved humanity; He loved men. Neither He nor anyone else can love humanity; it is like loving a gigantic centipede. And the reason Tolstoians can even endure to think of an equally distributed affection is that their love of humanity is a logical love, a love into which they are coerced by their own theories, a love which would be an insult to a tom-cat."

Be wise, not a fool. Love those in your path, fervently, compassionately, and specifically. Leave it to the government to try to be the false god it desires to be--and the father of all.

February 6, 2013 at 12:53 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Caddy, prove the existence of Jehovah. You say that the Bible's Jehovah is a real character. Prove it. Until you can prove that Jehovah exists, there's no reason to discuss the Bible as anything other than a collection of stories, most of them second-handed versions of myths created long before Biblical times.

You might as well be discussing the finer points of Mother Goose because she's as real as Jehovah. Actually Mother Goose is a better character than Jehovah because Mother Goose doesn't threaten you with hell if you don't believe her stories are real.

February 6, 2013 at 12:56 p.m.
caddy said...

Not interested in proving He exists, Darwin. He'll prove that to us all in the end. I'm VERY comfortable with the doctrine of Depravity and the certain doctrine that God doesn't give ALL men what they deserve: Hell. Some He gives Mercy and Grace. Now that can be taken in two ways. Scripture sees it very plainly: There is NO Mercy to the man who truly thinks he needs none.

For people such as yourself, I would say, bust it up, live life, be free and easy if that is your "thing."

I'm with Bonhoeffer on this one:

"Every attempt to impose the Gospel by force, to run after people and proselytize them, to use our own resources to arrange the salvation of other people, is both futile and dangerous. It is futile, because the swine do not recognize the pearls ( sorry that that language pisses you off but it's true ) that are cast before them, and dangerous because it profanes the Word of forgiveness....Worse still, we shall only meet with the blind rage of hardened and darkened hearts, and that will be useless and harmful. Our easy trafficking with the word of cheap Grace simply bores the world to disgust, so that in the end it turns against those who try to force on it what it does not want."

There is True Wisdom there !

February 6, 2013 at 2:01 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Caddy - Neither the writings of Chesterton nor those of Friedman occur in the Christian Canon. I thought you knew that.

As far as I am concerned, Friedman is talking proof that free-market capitalism operates on the principle that greed is good. I reject that. And, unless you have removed the book of Amos from your Bible, you should, too.

I have no expectation of creating a utopian society on this planet. The new heaven and new earth are not my doing and will not happen in this age. I live in the real world. But, just because I live in it, I do not have to yield to all of its evils. And, I certainly have no intention of using Scripture to rationalize that this world's evils are good. Nor, do I have any intention of using a combination of this world's evils and Scriptures to redefine "God is love" for the purpose of serving my selfish interest.

If you are the embodiment of wisdom, I am content to be a fool.

February 6, 2013 at 2:13 p.m.
caddy said...

I'm ok with that too MTJohn. We can only deal with the systems that exist. Ananias and Sapphira were "Free" to give or not give what they had. If the "Christian community" compelled them by force to do so, it very simply would have broken the 8th commandment. You have property and valuables that are yours. If your government compels you to split your house so 2 Mexican families can live there, I would be the first to say they have overstepped their bounds and compelled you against your will, against your rights as a child of God. Now the government can compel by force. We all know that. Just because a government makes a "law" does not mean the law that is made is right in the eyes of God.

I won't hold my breath, however, on venturing that you think the same way. Come back when the government compels you and yours to divide your assets, property, and or person to satisfy the needs of others against your will.

I'll listen to you when you put up in perfect governmental harmony. This boy's not going to hold his breath however on how things would shake out. Perfectly content to let you be the fool you are in word and ... the deeds you no doubt have no interest in .... doing.

; D

February 6, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.
caddy said...

God indeed uses carnal men -- and socialist fools -- to very good service, but without a thorough altering and conviction of their judgment. He works by them, but not in them. Therefore they do neither approve the good they do nor hate the evil they abstain from.

February 6, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said...God indeed uses carnal men -- and socialist fools -- to very good service, but without a thorough altering and conviction of their judgment. He works by them, but not in them.

Agreed. However, I don't think that covers Friedman.

Just because a government makes a "law" does not mean the law that is made is right in the eyes of God.

Agreed. We live in a secular world. God ordains government. That doesn't mean that what government does is God pleasing - most of it probably is not.

If your government compels you to split your house so 2 Mexican families can live there...

Instead of wasting your imagination on bogus examples, I think you should use your God-given ability to think of ways that our society can help those less fortunate than yourselves to better realize the American dream.

I'll listen to you when you put up in perfect governmental harmony.

That's an easy concession for you to make because I have already told you that I have no expectation that we will ever have utopia. But, I can return the offer. I'll listen to you when you put in place an economic system that function with no hint of greed motivating the system.

February 6, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.