published Saturday, June 1st, 2013

The Graduate

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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AndrewLohr said...

From 1520 to 1800 A.D. the Leipzig school's music teachers all had degrees, except for one: Johann Sebastian Bach, A.D. 1723-1750 there. Use college; don't let it enslave you to the bank (or to D.C.)

June 1, 2013 at 12:16 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

I notice Mr Bennett is peddling the party line du jour again. Now I know Mark Steyn is a comedian, but he claims President Bush met with his IRS comissioner once, and President Obama with his IRS comissioner 157 times. And President Obama had to learn from the media what was going on at the IRS? Should the IRS investigate Mr Bennett's salary as a donation to the Democratic Party?

June 1, 2013 at 12:38 a.m.

157 times, wow. That's a lot of Easter egg rolls. I doubt the POTUS has seen Michelle that many times in the last 4 years, given his hectic schedule of golf, shooting hoops and being busy not being aware of things.

June 1, 2013 at 12:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

Stop the federal loan program and government intervention and tuition cost will drop like a rock. Yes, free markets work even in education. Colleges may concentrate on the skills needed for a chosen career without requiring unrelated social academics. There is an option to loans, it is called worked my way through college. There are inadequate options to college such as trades and other badly needed specialty skills. Teachers should be paid much better but the preparation and hurdles to becoming one should be more. Is a teacher any less critical in most kids life than a pediatrician?

June 1, 2013 at 12:46 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

zablee: I doubt POTUS has wanted to see FLOTUS 157 times.

June 1, 2013 at 1:08 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Obama's Student Loan Rate Proposal Saves Average Borrower 25¢ Per Day

BY JERYL BIER

“Reprising the "Don't Double My Rate" theme used during the 2012 presidential campaign, the White House is pushing a plan by President Obama this week to prevent interest rates on some student loans from doubling effective July 1. However, the savings for most borrowers is rather less significant than might appear at first glance. The White House uses the example of an incoming freshman, who they say will save $4,000 under the president's plan:

If Congress fails to act, college will be further out of reach for millions of students and families. In fact, an incoming freshman who borrows $27,000 over the next four years -- a typical debt incurred by today’s college graduates – is projected to pay over $4,000 dollars more over the life of their loans without the President’s proposal.

However, the chart included with the plan shows that the average savings for student loan borrowers is actually $1,126. Despite tweets from the White House that seem to suggest the savings are annual ("Last year, President Obama helped students save an average of $1,000 on their college loans"), the footnote to the chart explains that the savings assumes the borrower "repays the loans over the expected period of 12 years." A savings of $1,126 over twelve years is $94 per year, or about 25¢ a day.”

June 1, 2013 at 1:09 a.m.
alprova said...

Do you people EVER read what is written?

Douglas Shulman was CLEARED for White House visits 157 times. That does not mean that he actually visited the White House 157 times. People are cleared all the time for White House visits, who never show.

The logs kept of those clearances show that he actually arrived and logged in 11 times.

The majority of the visits were set to be held in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which houses office suites for administration aides.

At best, he met with the President directly, FIVE times.

Enough with the tin foil drama.

Obama isn't going anywhere. Eric Holder isn't going anywhere.

Some of you people really need to get a grip on reality.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/31/did-irs-chief-really-visit-white-house-157-times/

June 1, 2013 at 1:18 a.m.
Easy123 said...

AndrewLohr,

"From 1520 to 1800 A.D. the Leipzig school's music teachers all had degrees, except for one: Johann Sebastian Bach, A.D. 1723-1750 there."

First of all, Bach wasn't a "music teacher" at St. Thomas School in Leipzig. He conducted the choir. Secondly, I highly doubt every "music teacher" at the school for nearly 300 years had degrees in the field of music considering how new degrees were at the time and how specific and, seemingly, obscure a degree in the arts would have been in the 16th and 17th centuries.

I'm sure you could come up with a much better, more honest story than that to make your point.

June 1, 2013 at 1:51 a.m.
carlB said...

There are many things which need to be corrected with our "educational systems" for insuring the students are EDUCATED for the jobs that are available, not educated to meet the requirements set up to insure the salaries of the administrators
In every city, county, and state there are too many, many people who have "conveniently created" their jobs/positions at the "top" which require too many of the tax dollars.

June 1, 2013 at 6:56 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Clay,

Whatever are you thinking???

Are you saying all the Liberal Democrat Professors employed at our countries universities, attempting to indoctrinate students with their brand of biased political gobblie guuk are being overpaid at the financial demise of todays youth?

Finally common sense and deductive reasoning rule the day at the TFP Toon Page!

Clay, you make me proud!!! I knew you had it in you all along!

June 1, 2013 at 7:27 a.m.
conservative said...

He would never admit it but it is the truth. You nailed it whatsthefuss.

June 1, 2013 at 7:39 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Before any solutions can be considered, I think our first hurdle is to get our politicians to understand the future of America will be largely determined by how well we educate our children. Unfortunately, some grasp this reality more than others.

June 1, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Easy says "I'm sure you could come up with a much better, more honest story than that to make your point." this from a guy attending Ed's Law School

June 1, 2013 at 9:24 a.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss weote: "Are you saying all the Liberal Democrat Professors employed at our countries universities, attempting to indoctrinate students with their brand of biased political gobblie guuk are being overpaid at the financial demise of todays youth?"

When ny wife and I married, she had just finished attending Southern Adventist University for four years. The year was 1984. I don't recall the exact balance owed, but I do remember writing checks for $250 a month to Sallie Mae for nearly six years.

Schools with conservative professors who attempt to indoctrinate students with their brand of biased religious gobbledyguuk (The TFP does not allow the posting of the proper spelling of the word) are just as overpaid as their secular counterparts.

"Finally common sense and deductive reasoning rule the day at the TFP Toon Page!"

Isn't it amazing what people see, simply by looking at a very simple cartoon of an academic cap with an anchor of debt tied to it?

A nice neutral, non-specific, non-political cartoon, and you go apecrap in celebration that it supports a condemnation of liberalism?

And conservative comes climbing out from under his rock to pat you on the back?

Will wonders never cease?

June 1, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ALPO says " Schools with conservative professors who attempt to indoctrinate students with their brand of biased religious gobbledyguuk (The TFP does not allow the posting of the proper spelling of the word) are just as overpaid as their secular counterparts." A TRUE satement, Alpy. But multiple polls indicate the number of left leaning professors FAR exceed the number of centrist or right of center profs. Even if you omit the "bible" schools, the numbers still weigh heavily to the "progressives"

June 1, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

ALPO,,

I didn't know there was a correct spelling for gobbliegouk. I did laugh when the filter told me the word was banned and to "Watch My Mouth." One would think I said MF'er or SOB or something.

As to secular colleges, if a person wishes to combine their religious beliefs and their education more power to them. As an atheist you could imagine my surprise this week when the new pope stated all humans, even atheists, are allowed into heaven. I think I will start washing with "Pope On a Rope" from now on!! As for the faithful, please make sure you practice what you preach because I sure will miss all you backslid Christians when I finally arrive at the "Pearly Gates" and find you went the other way!

But back to my comment, I was referring to state universities that also spend our tax dollars to achieve their goals of making students think as they do. Their job as professors is to attempt to make them think. Not to influence their thinking. They have dictators in other countries for that. It has no place in our public collages.

June 1, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.
fairmon said...

Administrators insist the elaborate student centers, recreation areas and other amenities are to attract students although many reject qualified applicants. Could it be government money is the root cause? You would think parents and students would be upset at the unnecessary unrelated cost. Ever see anything about serious discussions with business input on the knowledge, skill and ability they seek when hiring? It is no wonder most graduate in a field preceded by the letters B.S.

It is unfortunate the separation of education and politics are not viewed in the same light as separation of church and state. Unions and politicians both insist on parity. Politicians reward and recognize success with higher taxes. Unions insist on the same for all regardless of contribution and ability and protection of the nonperformers. It is a complex issue but not hard to understand how America spends more per student but gets much worse results than other countries.

June 1, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.
acerigger said...

alprova said...

"Do you people EVER read what is written? "

Short answer Al,, NO.

June 1, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why is it teachers are the only profession with tenure which in laymen terms means it will be hell to pay if you try to get rid of me? Why is the number of administrators per teacher so high?

June 1, 2013 at 11:06 a.m.
EaTn said...

With the high-tech world we now live in, the majority schools built in the future will be to baby-sit the kids so both parents can work to make ends meet. Ditto for most colleges and universities. Fewer teachers and instructors from their homes will have the ability to teach masses in their homes. The technical capability to change is here and economics will force it to happen.

June 1, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

The good news is some of these universities are actually trying to figure out ways to reduce their tuitions. It will be interesting to see if the game plan of this small private school in St. Paul Minn. works out. The goal is to ensure its students aren’t taking our massive student loans:

"Concordia University is bucking the college cost trend, as it plans to cut undergraduate tuition by $10,000.

Starting next fall, the sticker price will drop by almost a third to $19,700 for a year's tuition, Minnesota Public Radio reports.

Concordia, a small, private school in St. Paul, Minn., announced the decision on Wednesday. . .

Concordia, for its part, has rethought the "high tuition/high aid" approach. It will offer the lower tuition by reducing the amount it spends on financial aid packages. At other universities, high amounts of aid are given to students attracted to the prestige created through their high cost -- a phenomenon similar luxury products' popularity.

One of Corcordia's goals is to ensure students aren't taking out massive student loans.

"In resetting our tuition to a price last seen a decade ago, we are responding to the concerns of students and families who feel our nation’s colleges have become unaffordable," said the Rev. Tom Ries, president of Concordia. "We hope that other private colleges and universities will soon be able to follow our lead.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/concordia-university-cuts-tuition_n_1880719.html

June 1, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
Easy123 said...

How many of the folks that talk about "liberal indoctrination" in public schools have actually attended one?

June 1, 2013 at 11:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Easy. Have you & Chet attended one? Does YMCA law school count?

June 1, 2013 at 12:09 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Fairmon says: “Administrators insist the elaborate student centers, recreation areas and other amenities are to attract students although many reject qualified applicants. Could it be government money is the root cause? You would think parents and students would be upset at the unnecessary unrelated cost.”

Since it’s mostly private schools that have these elaborate amenities and centers that you referenced, I believe it’s a big leap on your part to suggest that government money is the root cause. As for the parents and students, I strongly suspect they may be part of the problem. Indeed, some parents and students actually demand these things.

June 1, 2013 at 12:25 p.m.
acerigger said...

PlainTruth ,after witnessing all the whining and crying you were doing just a few days ago, begging Alprova and easy to "leave me alone you big bullies",I'm kind of surprised to see you still sniping at them.Slow learner?

June 1, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ace, not sniping at alpo. Easy? A different story. He's vile.

June 1, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

It's only recently that students and the general public alike have wised up enough to realize that going to college is not necessarily a ticket to financial stability. Before the Great Recession hit it was still an unwritten part of our social contract that the more education one had the better their chances for success and financial reward. One cannot very well blame the students for running up massive debts that they thought would purchase that ticket to prosperity. At the very least there should be unanimous agreement in the House and Senate about keeping the interest rate on student loans at its present 3.4%. There should also be provisions whereby there are more options for deferring or defaulting on that debt, especially in cases where there is undeniable hardship. As it stands now the only ways a person can default is from death or total disability. Even people with a mortgage on their house can default if worse comes to worst. Student loan debt is basically modern-day indentured servitude! Why are students being held to such a stricter standard than anyone else? We bailed out Wall St. and the banks. Why is it such an unthinkable thing to bail out or at least help these students in a big way? Student loan debt has surpassed credit card debt in this country, to the tune of more than one trillion dollars. It's not just a student problem, it's a problem for the economy as a whole and it affects us all.

June 1, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

acerigger said...

PlainTruth ,after witnessing all the whining and crying you were doing just a few days ago, begging Alprova and easy to "leave me alone you big bullies",I'm kind of shocked to see you still sniping at them.Slow learner?


I did see him challenge them to advance on their boast to launch a personal smear campaign against him.

alprova, after much despicable conduct, did eventually see his error, acknowledged it and apologized. Easy123, being the coward he is, continues to claim he was correct yet he hides behind a list of names he posted without identifying the specific person he was referring to. Typical behavior for such as blowhard that when called on his actions does have the intestinal fortitude to carry through on his boasts.

I would say that Plain Truth, after that episode, has the right to address them any way he pleases short of smears and slander but even beyond the limits that they reciprocate.

June 1, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rickaroo,

"Student loan debt is basically modern-day indentured servitude! Why are students being held to such a stricter standard than anyone else?"

You've brought up a very interesting paradox. College students are being punished (via massive school debt) to acquire an education, yet having such an education is required for those same students to reach the vast majority of the highest paying jobs (healthcare professionals, engineers, lawyers, judges, managers) that would allow them to pay that debt off. It's a Catch-22 for any college student with high aspirations.

"Student loan debt has surpassed credit card debt in this country, to the tune of more than one trillion dollars."

I do think there is a silver-lining to that fact though. At least, young people are still making the effort to pursue a college education. This country needs more college educated people. While I don't think a college education will guarantee, as you said, "financial stability", I do believe such an endeavor will lead to "mental" (intellect, basic knowledge, psychosocial) stability.

"A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education." -George Bernard Shaw

June 1, 2013 at 2:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jt6_quoque,

"Typical behavior for such a blowhard"

Your "self-awareness" moment, Queen Blowhard.

June 1, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Easy says While I don't think a college education will guarantee, as you said, "financial stability", I do believe such an endeavor will lead to "mental" (intellect, basic knowledge, psychosocial) stability. are you kidding me, Easy?

June 1, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"are you kidding me, Easy?"

Is that a rhetorical question? Or are you going to make a point?

June 1, 2013 at 2:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

No. You display "psycosocial" stability?

June 1, 2013 at 2:44 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Fairmon says: “Why is it teachers are the only profession with tenure which in laymen terms means it will be hell to pay if you try to get rid of me?”

I guess you’re unaware of the fact that as of 2005, approximately 68% of US college teachers were neither tenured nor eligible for tenure so you can't blame high tuition costs on tenure.

June 1, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said..Since it’s mostly private schools that have these elaborate amenities and centers that you referenced, I believe it’s a big leap on your part to suggest that government money is the root cause. As for the parents and students, I strongly suspect they may be part of the problem. Indeed, some parents and students actually demand these things.

Wrong.. It is state schools that say these things are needed to compete with private schools. Have you visited a state funded school other than Tennessee which is enough but many surpass their frivolous spending. State schools started the contest and private schools reacted with similar or more elaborate amenities and did increase the cost to attend.

Wouldn't it be great if schools were praised for graduates success in their chosen field instead of how many were in pro sports? It would be equally great if good teachers were sought after and rewarded like good coaches.

June 1, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Do you people EVER read what is written?

(Do you?)

Douglas Shulman was CLEARED for White House visits 157 times. That does not mean that he actually visited the White House 157 times. People are cleared all the time for White House visits, who never show.

(Those are all true.)

The logs kept of those clearances show that he actually arrived and logged in 11 times.

(That is not verified as there is no claim that he was not logged in but only that there was no arrival time listed. I’ve visited many location that require log-ins but have usually not provided an arrival time and noticed that the vast majority have not as well.)

The majority of the visits were set to be held in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which houses office suites for administration aides.

(Many appointments I’ve had are only entry points to larger gatherings as the person the appointment is with has the responcibility to bring the people they think are necessary.)

At best, he met with the President directly, FIVE times.

(Also not verified as a meeting with the president does not require it to be one on one.)

Obama isn't going anywhere. Eric Holder isn't going anywhere.

(You hope against hope ... Right?)

Some of you people really need to get a grip on reality.

(I do know that the legal system is acquiring a very firm grip on certain people.)

June 1, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"No. You display "psycosocial" stability?"

Considering you spelled the word wrong, I guess I'd have to say no. However, the vast majority of college graduates/students (including myself) do display psychosocial stability, not "psycosocial".

June 1, 2013 at 2:52 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said...

I guess you’re unaware of the fact that as of 2005, approximately 68% of US college teachers were neither tenured nor eligible for tenure . . . so I don't think you can blame high tuition on tenure.

I didn't intend to suggest high tuition was related to tenure. I just don't understand the concept or justification for "tenure". What does it do for the truly good teachers?

June 1, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Haha, easy. What you display is that you are a serial liar and a sociopath.

June 1, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"Haha, easy. What you display is that you are a serial liar and a sociopath."

You've just accurately described yourself. Throw in "patently ignorant buffoon" and we have a BINGO!

June 1, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Fairmon claims: “It is state schools that say these things are needed to compete with private schools. Have you visited a state funded school other than Tennessee which is enough but many surpass their frivolous spending.”

I believe you owe it to us to provide specific examples of these states and colleges that support your claims in regard to this alleged frivolous spending, Fairmon. I'm curious.

June 1, 2013 at 2:58 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

How about those Lady Vols!!

June 1, 2013 at 2:58 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Easy123 said...

First of all, Bach wasn't a "music teacher" at St. Thomas School in Leipzig. He conducted the choir.


From Wiki:

St. Thomas School, Leipzig

Notable former teachers:

Johann Sebastian Bach - prolific German Baroque composer and organist

Bach was required to instruct the students of the Thomasschule in singing and to provide church music for the main churches in Leipzig. Bach was required to teach Latin, but he was allowed to employ a deputy to do this instead.


Just keeping it real.

June 1, 2013 at 2:58 p.m.
fairmon said...

Alprova said..........

Obama isn't going anywhere. Eric Holder isn't going anywhere.

A sad but most likely a true statement. Too bad they can't load the train with McCain and a few others and leave. Pelosi should ride on top of the train and a lot of people would hope for a low over pass.

June 1, 2013 at 3:02 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Jt6_quoque,

"Bach was required to instruct the students of the Thomasschule in singing and to provide church music for the main churches in Leipzig."

As the conductor of the choir. If you want to call the choir conductor a "music teacher", then knock yourself out. But Bach wouldn't exactly fit that description.

"In 1723, Bach was appointed Cantor of the Thomasschule at Thomaskirche in Leipzig, and Director of Music in the principal churches in the town, namely the Nikolaikirche and the Paulinerkirche, the church of the University of Leipzig."

"Just keeping it real."

Obviously not.

June 1, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said....

I believe you owe it to us to provide specific examples of these states and colleges that support your claims in regard to this alleged frivolous spending, Fairmon. I'm curious.

You aren't too curious or you would check them out yourself. Start with the University of Michigan.

June 1, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Without Wiki, Easy would be a moot mute

June 1, 2013 at 3:19 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

mountainlaurel said...

The good news is some of these universities are actually trying to figure out ways to reduce their tuitions. It will be interesting to see if the game plan of this small private school in St. Paul Minn. works out. The goal is to ensure its students aren’t taking our massive student loans:

From your link:

Concordia, for its part, has rethought the "high tuition/high aid" approach. It will offer the lower tuition by reducing the amount it spends on financial aid packages.


That is exactly the key but what are the consequences?


Also from your link:

The Iowa Board of Regents also unveiled a plan this week which could lead to a $1,000 cut in tuition at the state's public universities. The move in Iowa would be contingent on eliminating a controversial "tuition set-aside program," which earmarked 15 percent of student tuition toward financial aid services.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/iowa-regents-to-seek-40m-_n_1880318.html?utm_hp_ref=college

The regents met in Ames to discuss recommendations from a committee charged with eliminating a practice of using up to 15 percent of tuition revenue for financial aid at Iowa's three public universities. The practice, known as tuition set-aside, came under fire earlier this year for forcing middle-class students to subsidize their classmates with financial aid and merit scholarships.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_21522035/concordia-university-slashing-tuition-financial-aid

St. Paul's Concordia University is slashing undergraduate tuition by a whopping third next fall.

But there's a catch: Financial aid packages will shrink, too, so the actual savings for students will be considerably more modest than the $10,000 tuition cut the Lutheran university was expected to announce Wednesday, Sept. 12.


Less financial aid for merit or need unless outside aid is offered and that burden should not fall on the backs of other students that are already in a strain to meet their tuition costs.

June 1, 2013 at 3:19 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"Without Wiki, Easy would be a moot mute"

You already are and you have been through two screen name changes.

You might consider doing some research once in a while. After all, you are the moron that thinks graduate schools and laws school are different things. And that the Stimulus did nothing. And that "Praying the gay away" works.

June 1, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Fairmon says: “I didn't intend to suggest high tuition was related to tenure. I just don't understand the concept or justification for "tenure.”

I bet you do not have any difficulty understanding why corporate boards don’t want to give shareholders the final word when it comes to CEOs, their salaries, their bonuses, and their benefit packages. I believe the same rationale is applicable when it comes to the tenure system in our colleges and universities. The system has played an important roll in creating and maintaining the kind of academic vitality and academic freedom needed to foster new ideas, important research, and new discoveries.

As to how the concept of tenure developed, Wikipedia provides a basic history and overview of its development. Clearly, it has changed a lot through the years, but this appears to be where most colleges and universities are today:

Under the tenure systems adopted as internal policy by many universities and colleges, especially in the United States and Canada, tenure is associated with more senior job titles such as Professor and Associate Professor. A junior professor will not be promoted to such a tenured position without meeting the goals of the institution, often (though not always including) demonstrating a strong record of published research, grant funding, academic visibility, teaching and administrative service, with emphasis different across institutions (though often focused on research in universities).

Typical systems (such as the Recommended Institutional Regulations on Academic Freedom and Tenure)[3] allow only a limited period to establish such a record, by limiting the number of years that any employee can hold a junior title such as Assistant Professor. (An institution may also offer other academic titles that are not time-limited, such as Lecturer, Adjunct Professor, or Research Professor, but these positions do not carry the possibility of tenure and are said to be "off the tenure track.")

Academic tenure is primarily intended to guarantee the right to academic freedom: it protects teachers and researchers when they dissent from prevailing opinion, openly disagree with authorities of any sort, or spend time on unfashionable topics. Thus academic tenure is similar to the lifetime tenure that protects some judges from external pressure. Without job security, the scholarly community as a whole might favor "safe" lines of inquiry. The intent of tenure is to allow original ideas to be more likely to arise, by giving scholars the intellectual autonomy to investigate the problems and solutions about which they are most passionate, and to report their honest conclusions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenure_(academic)

June 1, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

As said, law school isn't commonly referred to as grad school. Can you not read? The stimulus was a bust. I Never said you could pray away the gay. Lastly, I'm not sure that 3rd tier school of yours qualifies as a "real" anything. What's the name of that fine institution, Ease? Hmmm?

June 1, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Alpo (Georgia's only registered republican) says...."Eric Holder isn't going anywhere"

I wouldn't be so sure about Holder, I see an independent prosecutor coming and perjury can be serious.

June 1, 2013 at 3:53 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"As said, law school isn't commonly referred to as grad school."

As I stated, I never referred to law school as grad school. However, law school is a graduate school, you fool.

"Can you not read?"

You've made it clear that you do, in fact, have reading comprehension problems. And you have quadrupled down on ignorance.

"The stimulus was a bust."

And you're still wrong. The facts DO NOT support you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

"I Never said you could pray away the gay."

Then why did you accuse me of conjecture when I said it didn't?

"Lastly, I'm not sure that 3rd tier school of yours qualifies as a "real" anything."

I don't attend a "3rd tier school". Would you like to try again?

"What's the name of that fine institution, Ease? Hmmm?"

What is the name of the institution that you received your degree at? Jackie? Hmmm? I bet you went to Vanderbilt with Maximus, didn't you? Hmmmm?**

June 1, 2013 at 3:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

No Vandy, Easy. But I did graduate from a REAL university.

June 1, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Rickaroo said...

It's only recently that students and the general public alike have wised up enough to realize that going to college is not necessarily a ticket to financial stability.

(Of course it is in relation to the alternatives but as with any investment you have to do your homework and maximize your return)

Before the Great Recession hit it was still an unwritten part of our social contract that the more education one had the better their chances for success and financial reward.

(It still is. You just have to intellectually play the odds.)

One cannot very well blame the students for running up massive debts that they thought would purchase that ticket to prosperity.

(Wise investing should be their first lesson learned)

At the very least there should be unanimous agreement in the House and Senate about keeping the interest rate on student loans at its present 3.4%.

( It should be in line with other similar government loan programs such as small business loans.)

There should also be provisions whereby there are more options for deferring or defaulting on that debt, especially in cases where there is undeniable hardship. As it stands now the only ways a person can default is from death or total disability.

( If you can show that repaying the loan is a real overwhelming hardship you can list it in your bankruptcy filing. If it is not then you should bear down and fulfill your obligations)

Even people with a mortgage on their house can default if worse comes to worst.

(If you default on other types of loans they strip you of the assets required but with an educational degree they can’t erase that experience ... not apples to apples)

Student loan debt is basically modern-day indentured servitude!

(No it’s not. You are entering a financial agreement that you have an obligation to unless misfortune befalls you and truly can’t fulfill your side of the bargain)

Why are students being held to such a stricter standard than anyone else?

(They are being held to a reasonable standard which may or may not be different from other loan programs but it is not overly restrictive in relationship to them.)

We bailed out Wall St. and the banks.

(This bit of banality is quickly replacing the equally tired and wore out “If we can send a man to the moon”. Which by the way we no longer can.)

June 1, 2013 at 4 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"No Vandy, Easy. But I did graduate from a REAL university."

LMFAO! No, you didn't, nor have you graduated from ANY institution of higher learning or an online college. But keep telling yourself that. I know you need the ego boost.

June 1, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I did. But I got over it. You,re the one with the hang up.

June 1, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"I did."

No, you didn't.

"But I got over it."

You "got over it" because "it" never happened.

"You,re the one with the hang up."

You try daily to belittle and debase my education level/school. And I have a "hang-up"? LMFAO! It's called psychological projection, PlainMoron. It's your forte.

You're pitiable, Plain_Jack. It's very obvious to any serious person that you are the one with the hang-up. Your contempt for knowledge, information and research serves as proof, as does your lack of respect for learning, in general.

Your jealousy and, as always, your ignorance is palpable. There's always time to change though. You can always go back and get your degree. And I encourage you to do so.

June 1, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I've never told a lie on this forum And if I do, it won't be something as insignificant as where I got my degree. How many lies have you told, fool?

June 1, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
Reardon said...

Schooling is overrated. Education isn't.

This country was built on the backs of hard workers with a 10th grade education and a lot of guts.

Who in their right mind would loan tens of thousands of dollars to a kid with little-to-no long-term record of positive financial history, without collateral, for an intangible object, like a low ROI degree like psychology or sociology?

Only the Goober'mint.

The number one move to reduce or stop tuition inflation would be to cut the free-flow of government money. Schools would immediately re-tool their finances and cut the fat.

Second would be to allow the free-market in to fill the void.

We used to have an extensive guild and apprentice system in place to teach the young.

So many professions are taught "on-the-job," mentee and mentor. Plumbing, computer programming, sales, and all sorts of vocational work.

June 1, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"I've never told a lie on this forum"

That's a lie. You've also been very deceitful by changing your screen name numerous times.

"And if I do, it won't be something as insignificant as where I got my degree."

You haven't said where you allegedly received your "degree". It seems as though you're saying you don't want to tell me where you received your degree because you don't want to lie.

"How many lies have you told, fool?"

I'm always truthful, moron, even if it hurts. :-)

June 1, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Never told a lie. period. You lie daily. And everyone knows it. You ain't well, fool.

June 1, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"Never told a lie. period."

Laughable and patently false. Period.

"You lie daily."

False. I do no such thing. That's another lie from you.

"And everyone knows it."

False. You insanely claim to speak for everyone. Thus, another lie from you.

"You ain't well, fool."

A little more psychological projection from you. You're the one that is the unwell fool. That fact is obvious.

June 1, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ok, Chet

June 1, 2013 at 4:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Plain_Jack_Dennis,

"Ok, Chet"

Another lie from you, Jack_Dennis/Rebus/PlainTruth.

Would you like to try again?

June 1, 2013 at 4:37 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From the same Wiki link used above:

The AAUP (American Association of University Professors) has handled hundreds of cases where it alleges that tenure candidates were treated unfairly. The AAUP has censured many major and minor universities and colleges for such alleged tenure abuses.

Since the 1970s philosopher John Searle has called for major changes to tenure systems, calling the practice "without adequate justification." Searle suggests that to reduce publish or perish pressures that can hamper their classroom teaching, capable professors be given tenure much sooner than the standard four-to-six years. However, Searle also argued that tenured professors be reviewed every seven years to help eliminate "incompetent" teachers who can otherwise find refuge in the tenure system.

It has also been suggested that tenure may have the effect of diminishing political and academic freedom among those seeking it - that they must appear to conform to the political or academic views of the field or the institution where they seek tenure. For example, in The Trouble with Physics, the theoretical physicist, Lee Smolin says "... it is practically career suicide for young theoretical physicists not to join the field of string theory. ...".

It is certainly possible to view the tenure track as a long-term demonstration of the candidate's political and academic conformity. Patrick J. Michaels, a controversial part-time research professor at the University of Virginia, wrote: "...tenure has had the exact opposite effect as to its stated goal of diversifying free expression. Instead, it stifles free speech in the formative years of a scientist's academic career, and all but requires a track record in support of paradigms that might have outgrown their usefulness."

Other criticisms include the publish or perish pressures creating trivial junk research, a caste system treating those without tenure poorly, and indolence after having achieved tenure. The tenured faculty can resist necessary reforms by administrators who they generally outlast. The tenured faculty also usually can control appointments which contributes to political correctness and groupthink.

After the Ward Churchill controversy, a telephone survey of “a thousand Americans aged 18 and older” by the American Association of University Professors found that, while “generally supportive of the tenure system”, "only about 17.9 percent of respondents say the tenure system should remain as it is". Another poll found that 65% believed that "non-tenured professors are more motivated to do a good job in the classroom".

June 1, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From the W.S.J.:

President Obama's 2014 budget calls on Congress to prevent a doubling of interest rates on student loans and make the rates "more market-based." Last week House Republicans and four Democrats voted to prevent the rates from doubling and make the rates more market-based.

House Education Chairman John Kline's bill sets floating rates on new Stafford loans at the 10-year Treasury rate plus 2.5%, while also protecting borrowers by capping the rates at 8.5%. Under this plan, a borrower can consolidate his loans after graduation to achieve a fixed rate.

Mr. Obama's plan is purely for fixed, not floating, rates at the 10-year Treasury rate plus 0.93% or 2.93% depending on the type of Stafford loan, and it has no rate cap.

Under either plan, rates for new Stafford loans for undergraduates will not nearly rise all the way to 6.8% from 3.4%, as they are scheduled to do on July 1. But the White House likes to run against a doubling of rates even when, as in this case, they are running unopposed. It has been a good political issue for Team Obama in the past, and there's another reason they may regard it as favorable ground to attack imaginary adversaries.

That's because there is a legitimate dispute over another part of the Obama loan program, but it has more downside for the White House than pretending to be in a fight over interest rates.

As he has in the past, Mr. Obama is again seeking to expand the opportunities for borrowers to avoid paying their bills on time and in full. The White House wants to allow more people to take advantage of a program called Pay As You Earn. As the Obama Administration describes it, a borrower's repayments are "capped at 10 percent of their prior-year discretionary income," with any remaining balances forgiven after 20 years.

You've read about default rates rising on federal student loans, and it's all true, but perhaps as dangerous to taxpayers is the exploding opportunity in recent years for borrowers to choose debtor-friendly repayment options while technically avoiding default. If enough people can be declared eligible for so-called income-based repayment plans that reduce their monthly bills and even their principal, does it really matter what the official interest rate is? Taxpayers will still pay in the end.

June 1, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

If possible I will be at this event that will be held from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. on Tuesday, June 4, at the Manchester-Coffee County Conference Center, 147 Hospitality Blvd.

Maybe some of you who like to comment on the virtues of religion might want to do so as well. Since the speaker has declared that the Islamic “religion is no different from others” he may want to explain to you how commenting on Islam and other religions, that are no different, could affect you.


From JudicialWatch:

In its latest effort to protect followers of Islam in the U.S. the Obama Justice Department warns against using social media to spread information considered inflammatory against Muslims, threatening that it could constitute a violation of civil rights.

Evidently that was a precursor of sorts for an upcoming Tennessee event (“Public Disclosure in a Diverse Society”) that will feature the region’s top DOJ official, who serves as U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee, and an FBI representative. The June 4 powwow is sponsored by the American Muslim Advisory Council of Tennessee.

The area’s top federal prosecutor, Bill Killian, will address a topic that most Americans are likely unfamiliar with, even those well versed on the Constitution; that federal civil rights laws can actually be violated by those who post inflammatory documents aimed at Muslims on social media. “This is an educational effort with civil rights laws as they play into freedom of religion and exercising freedom of religion,” Killian says in the local news story. “This is also to inform the public what federal laws are in effect and what the consequences are.”

The DOJ political appointee adds in the article that the upcoming presentation will also focus on Muslim culture with a special emphasis on the fact that the religion is no different from others.

Over the years the Obama administration has embarked on a fervent crusade to befriend Muslims by creating a variety of outreach programs at a number of key federal agencies. For instance the nation’s Homeland Security covertly met with a group of extremist Arab, Muslim and Sikh organizations to discuss national security matters and the State Department sent a controversial, anti-America Imam (Feisal Abdul Rauf) to the Middle East to foster greater understanding and outreach among Muslim majority communities.

The Obama Administration has also hired a special Homeland Security adviser (Mohamed Elibiary) who openly supports a radical Islamist theologian and renowned jihadist ideologue and a special Islam envoy that condemns U.S. prosecutions of terrorists as “politically motivated persecutions” and has close ties to radical extremist groups.

June 1, 2013 at 5:50 p.m.
carlB said...

How many people or groups of people would try to keep the masses of people from learning anything?
It appears that there were not any comments about the false education process of getting all of the students to go into debt just to support the already elite educators who have their own society?
There is another money maker for keeping the education system going and that is the money from all of the "foreign" students who are bringing their money here to support the system. Everyone cannot be dependent on making a living as a service related job without the money earned by the workers earning money by "making" the goods here in the USA being used by everybody. Remember, there are "certain" people who do not want the masses to learn anything but what they are taught from the Bible.
======== Reason for book burning http://search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&q=Reason+for+book+burning&s_it=client97_searchbox ========= [ More results from en.wikipedia.org ] Book Burning, 213 BC–2011 AD - UW-Milwaukee www4.uwm.edu/libraries/burnedbooks/

Apr 19, 2012 ... Since ancient times, people from virtually all religions and societies have burned books as a form of censorship, protest, or hate mongering.

============

Book Burning Censorship and Beyond

book_burning.tripod.com/

Early Book Burning, Book Burning For Religous Reasons, Modern Day Book Burnig. -In times before the printing press and the mass production of liturature, ...

Why did or do people burn books - Wiki Answers wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_or_do_people_burn_books - Similar to Why did or do people burn books - Wiki Answers

Many people burn books to eliminate opposition to their philosophical position. They burn for economic reasons. They burn for nationalistic reasons. They burn ...

June 1, 2013 at 6 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Fairmon says: “You aren't too curious or you would check them out yourself. Start with the University of Michigan.”

Although it’s not always applicable, there are reasons why private colleges and universities have the reputation of being more prestigious than state colleges and universities, and I don’t believe your claim that state colleges and universities started the “frivolous” contest is valid.

Fairmon said: “Wouldn't it be great if schools were praised for graduates success in their chosen field instead of how many were in pro sports?”

Well, I agree with you on this point, Fairmon. I think too many colleges and universities are too focused on their athletics programs. It also seems unfair to me that students with more potential are often turned away because college coaches want the slots for their recruits.

June 1, 2013 at 6:25 p.m.
klifnotes said...

Interesting comments today. MOSTLY ^5 I won't divert your present conversation overly much, and don't mean to take y'all off the subject. But I thought some o' y'all might be interesting in an update on that IRS scandal. Especially about all those 157 allege visits the right claims Schulman made to the White House between 2009-2012. Turns out it may have been more like 11 visits? How 11 visits turned into 157 is yours or anyones guess.

The Atlanta:

The latest twist in the conservative effort to tie the IRS tax-exempt targeting scandal to the president is to focus on public visitor records released by the White House, in which former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman's name appears 157 times between 2009 and 2012. Unfortunately, few of those pushing this line have bothered to read more than the topline of that public information.

Complicating the picture is the fact that just because a meeting was scheduled and Shulman was cleared to attend it does not mean that he actually went. Routine events like the biweekly health-care deputies meeting would have had a standing list of people cleared to attend, people whose White House appointments would have been logged and forwarded to the check-in gate. But there is no time of arrival information in the records to confirm that Shulman actually signed in and went to these standing meetings.

ndeed, of the 157 events Shulman was cleared to attend, White House records only provide time of arrival information -- confirming that he actually went to them -- for 11 events over the 2009-2012 period, and time of departure information for only six appointments. According to the White House records, Shulman signed in twice in 2009, five times in 2010, twice in 2011, and twice in 2012. That does not mean that he did not go to other meetings, only that the White House records do not show he went to the 157 meetings he was granted Secret Service clearance to attend.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/the-fake-story-about-the-irs-commissioner-and-the-white-house/276399/

For those who seek the truth and not faux media, CARRY ON MATES!!

June 1, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said..

I don’t believe your claim that state colleges and universities started the “frivolous” contest is valid.

This conclusion comes from one of the TV investigative shows last year, I think 20/20. Interviews with deans etc. included who were in a justification mode. One college had a student center with water falls with a setting like those seen in Las Vegas. They had rappelling walls, wall climbing etc. Have you visited the complex at UT? Educators have lost touch with their core purpose.

June 1, 2013 at 8:09 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

klifnotes-

Thanks for showing up with that story about 17 hours late.

Good work.

June 1, 2013 at 10:20 p.m.
alprova said...

I previously wrote: "Douglas Shulman was CLEARED for White House visits 157 times. That does not mean that he actually visited the White House 157 times. People are cleared all the time for White House visits, who never show."

JT wrote: "Those are all true."

Really? Where is the proof that Mr. Shulman visited the White House 157 times?

I wrote: "The logs kept of those clearances show that he actually arrived and logged in 11 times."

JT Responded : "That is not verified as there is no claim that he was not logged in but only that there was no arrival time listed. I’ve visited many location that require log-ins but have usually not provided an arrival time and noticed that the vast majority have not as well."

Darlin' anyone who visits the White House is electronically logged in and out. They keep meticulous records of who visits the White House, when they arrive and are granted entry and when they exit.

No one, and I do mean no one, with the exception of White House staff, enters the White House without prior clearance being issued.

I wrote: "The majority of the visits were set to be held in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which houses office suites for administration aides."

JT: "Many appointments I’ve had are only entry points to larger gatherings as the person the appointment is with has the responcibility to bring the people they think are necessary."

I see. So now you believe, based on whatever experience you have had at your undefined gatherings, that you are clued in to how meetings are conducted at the White House?

Apples and 50 pound Watermelons Babe.

Me: "At best, he met with the President directly, FIVE times."

JT: "Also not verified as a meeting with the president does not require it to be one on one."

Everyone that meets with the President is logged. It's a matter of public record. This faux rumor, like all the others floating around is based on assumptions with no proof whatsoever in evidence.

Me: "Obama isn't going anywhere. Eric Holder isn't going anywhere."

JT: "You hope against hope ... Right?"

I'd offer to make a bet, but you're too entrenched in hiding behind your computer monitor to ever give me any reason to believe that I would collect if it turns out that I am correct.

June 1, 2013 at 11:23 p.m.
alprova said...

JT wrote: "klifnotes-Thanks for showing up with that story about 17 hours late. Good work."

I supplied the same proof this morning.

Thank you klifnotes for backing me up.

June 1, 2013 at 11:27 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jt6gR3hM said... klifnotes- Thanks for showing up with that story about 17 hours late. Good work.

What a cheap hag you are, JT. Trying to shut klifnotes up with personal attacks, you neoNazi semifembot?

June 1, 2013 at 11:53 p.m.
klifnotes said...

Jt6gR3hM said... klifnotes- Thanks for showing up with that story about 17 hours late.


Well, you do know that old saying, Jt6gR, about how far a LIE will travel before the truth starts to catch up?

June 2, 2013 at 8:40 a.m.
klifnotes said...

whatsthefuss, go into any conservative college and the conservatives speakers invited would surely outnumber the liberal ones.

June 2, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

klif,

It seems the radical liberal students & faculty cannot sit and listen respectfully to a speaker who endorses a different philosophy then they do. Respect isn't their strong suit and it is disturbing that faculty is allowed to encourage such behavior and even more astounding is the fact they are allowed to act in the same manner publicly enjoying employment year after year with the blessing of the collage leadership. Maybe what they really fear is that they may learn something new or even change their view on a certain idea if they simply sat down and listened.

June 2, 2013 at 12:57 p.m.
carlB said...

The Republicans APPEAR to want a Strong Military force but at the same time want to destroy and weaken the government for the people and by the people, without supporting a strong Balanced economic system where sacrifices are made by everybody. The Re Creation Of PRIVATE sector Production Jobs in the USA is the Key to the Recovery of the 2007 deep recession AND at this time the help of the US Government is needed to help re-create these jobs since the private corporations will not do the proper thing of reinvesting here in the USA without subsidies and incentives. Getting more Jobs would reduce the needed entitlements and increase the tax base. Are the US consumers helping recreate the private sector middle class jobs when the TRADE deficit is running $42 to $46 BILLION DOLLARS per month?

June 2, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
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