published Wednesday, November 6th, 2013

The Disclaimer

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” ― H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

This is the message of the Church of What's Happening Now.

November 6, 2013 at 12:16 a.m.
fairmon said...

Some of those attending the local council meeting and protesting may be homophobic and they had the wrong agenda for opposing granting any unmarried couple or married gay couples benefits. The issue is not about morals or religion, the issue is money. The council has the responsibility to be good stewards of the peoples tax money. The question should be why are benefits provided to any member of the family other than the employee? Any benefit extended to the family should be 100% paid for by the employee. This council has not accepted their fiduciary responsibility any better than those that left. This council is about to enter into an unmanageable area that invites abuse and misuse of something with good intentions that sounds simple and easy, but it is not and the lesson will be expensive.

Why do governments seem to always have more liberal employee compensation and work practices than any private employer? Is it because they are using other peoples money and can tap the source for more any time they run short?

November 6, 2013 at 1:27 a.m.
fairmon said...

The republicans can forget about it in the next election cycle. The democrats already have at least a $3/1 financial advantage and some estimate it much higher plus they have access to an infinite amount if needed. Anyone considering running on the republican ticket is a fool. By 2020 we will become a one party country with a minor ineffective protesting party against the European style government that is more controlling than most European countries.

November 6, 2013 at 1:42 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I was heartened to see another state, Illinois, step out of the dark ages and join in the theme of this country -- same rights for all its citizens, not just the ones deemed worthy by the holier-than-thou hypocrites who like to pass judgment on their fellow humans and pat themselves on the back.

November 6, 2013 at 5:26 a.m.
fairmon said...

anniebelle said...

I was heartened to see another state, Illinois, step out of the dark ages and join in the theme of this country.

What did the land of mafia give away?

November 6, 2013 at 6:15 a.m.
conservative said...

I wish all of the FALSE churches and their FALSE leaders and FALSE followers would so advertise.

November 6, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.
conservative said...

Hmm, who is going to be the first to say "why does conservative always have to bring up the subject of religion and Homosexuals?"

November 6, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
klifnotes said...

conservative said... Hmm, who is going to be the first to say "why does conservative always have to bring up the subject of religion and Homosexuals?"

I have an even better question: Why do conservative Christians claim to love a God they've never seen, yet conspire against and hate their neighbors they see on a daily basis? All HYPOCRITS?

Even the Christians God has asked that same question.

November 6, 2013 at 7:43 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We will never tell you that Homosexuality and sodomy is a sin because we love you"

November 6, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.
MarkB said...

My personal beliefs on the issue of homosexuality. The bible teaches in at least 16 different verses that it is a sin. It is not a phobia. A phobia is a fear of something. I believe the term "homophobia" was strategically named to create the illusion of fear or misunderstanding on the part of those who don't subscribe to the idea. That being said, I do not hate or look down on those who are homosexual because I am not without sin myself. I do however recognize my wrongdoing as sin. Just like with any group of people, there are a few who represent the group as a whole poorly so don't assume all Christians hate those that they don't agree with. Below are 16 verses that directly address this topic. http://www.openbible.info/topics/homosexuality

November 6, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.
klifnotes said...

MarkB said... My personal beliefs on the issue of homosexuality. The bible teaches in at least 16 different verses that it is a sin. It is not a phobia

The Bible teaches a lot of acts man engage in are sin. Yet, those individuals who profess to live by its teachings the most, also breaks biblical rules and laws most often.

November 6, 2013 at 8:18 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

The Jarrett Administration knew for 3 years that millions would lose their insurance.None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered. Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

November 6, 2013 at 8:21 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We only use the Queen James bible because we love you."

November 6, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.
MarkB said...

Klifnotes, I almost agree. All sin. I give references to back up my statements. Could you give me the statistic you read that says professing believers break the laws MOST OFTEN? I find that hard to believe and would love to know where you found this information.

November 6, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.
AgentX said...

I do not agree with same-sex union.

November 6, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Homosexuals will never be made to feel uncomfortable in our church because we love you"

November 6, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.
klifnotes said...

MarkB said... Klifnotes, I almost agree. All sin. I give references to back up my statements. Could you give me the statistic you read that says professing believers break the laws MOST OFTEN? I find that hard to believe and would love to know where you found this information

Who needs a study when all you have to do is a search at any given time?

example: Pastor accused of sexual misconduct with teen.

Deacon accused of shooting pastor during service.

Pastor accused of sexual abuse of 14 year old foster daughter.

Pastor accused of killing couple in front of their kids.

Parents sentenced in starving, beating death of adopted Ethiopian Daughters. ( all had ties to the biblical: spare the rod spoil the child/biblical).

adultery? fornication, lying, stealing from parishioners, dallying around with underage boys, girls, murder, child abuse.

November 6, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We will marry anyone because we love everyone"

November 6, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.
jen1972 said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of CONSERVATIVE'S house:

"CONSERVATIVE will never be able to feel comfortable anywhere, because he is a self-loathing, raging, closet case. And secretly in love with Ken Orr."

November 6, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.

Four out of 2 billion. That is a powerful case you make.

Given the perversions and promiscuous values that are embraced and celebrated in western societies, my guess is that sexual misconduct among professing Christians in the world is disproportionally western. Churches that cower and submit to the whims of their societies are doomed to compromise and marginalization.

November 6, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
caddy said...

Venture into the future: "We are not all pedophilaphobes."

Progress, huh ?

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517

November 6, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
caddy said...

"In the late 1950's and early 1960's, I began to notice a drift of men into perversions, and now women also. The men, for example, found that not only marital sex but also adulteries were no longer capable of exciting them. As a result, they were experimenting with anal sex, homosexuality, child molestation, incest, and like perversions as a means of reviving their flagging sexuality. The drift was appearing in their forties, at an early age. The pleasure in sex was in violating God's law and in defiling another person. The mentality of the Marquis de Sade was becoming democratized, with ugly results. The pleasure was in sin, not in godliness. This is an ancient impulse, and we see it, certainly, in the behavior of the men of Sodom (Gen. 19:1-19). The attitude of all too many is that of Caligula; when confronted with God's law, their angry response is, "Who dares teach me?" After all, who can teach a god, and, since fallen man is his own god, who can qualify to teach him? Given this premise, the modern educational goal is to teach children that they have a right to create their own value systems, and also to refuse to be bound by them."~ RJR

November 6, 2013 at 9:53 a.m.
caddy said...

Humanist law can function as an autonomous giver of statutory law. Humanist law can function as an autonomous standard only when faith in God's law is absent. That was what the serpent told Eve: "You will be like God, knowing good and evil."

November 6, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We accept all beliefs because we are a church of love"

November 6, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

caddy, a couple of things:

Marital infidelity and pre-marital sex are not a 20th century phenomenon. Men and women have been having sex outside of marriages as long as there have been marriages. Each society at various times in history have approached this differently; many punish the women only.

Child sexual abuse has also been around for centuries. It is also dealt with differently depending on society and point in history.

Homosexuality is not new. However, consensual intimate relationships between adults (the emphasis on "consensual") creates no victims. Being gay is not a choice. When someone can demonstrate how such a relationship creates a risk for others, maybe you would have something. But it doesn't. What two consenting adults do in private creates no victims, and is no one else's business. Now, if it is against your religion to enter into such a relationship, don't. But your religious beliefs are between you, your deity and your church. They do not apply to anyone else.

No, pedophilia will never be normalized, and neither will bestiality. The practice of both of these cannot be consensual under any circumstances. Even if pedophilia is re-classified as an "orientation", that does not mean it will be acceptable in our society, for the reason stated.

November 6, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Our membership includes people of all sexual orientations because we are a church of love"

November 6, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.
tbs1015 said...

have you read the Gospels conservative?

November 6, 2013 at 11:19 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"All you need is love

All you need is love

All you need is love, love

Love is all you need"

November 6, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

NOWWW I understand the ‘Gay Agenda.’

It’s all so clear to me now.

November 6, 2013 at 11:34 a.m.
alprova said...

PT cut and pasted: "Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy."

PT surmised with: "That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them."

That is a patently false statement. Here's what the "buried regulation" stated;

"The market for individual insurance is significantly different than that for group coverage. This affects estimates of the proportion of plans that will remain grandfathered until 2014. As mentioned previously, the individual market is a residual market for those who need insurance but do not have group coverage available and do not qualify for public coverage."

"For many, the market is transitional, providing a bridge between other types of coverage. One study found a high percentage of individual insurance policies began and ended with employer-sponsored coverage."

"More importantly, coverage on particular policies tends to be for short periods of time. Reliable data are scant, but a variety of studies indicate that between 40 percent and 67 percent of policies are in effect for less than one year."*

"Although data on changes in benefit packages comparable to that for the group market is not readily available, the high turnover rates described here would dominate benefit changes as the chief source of changes in grandfather status."

"While a substantial fraction of individual policies are in force for less than one year, a small group of individuals maintain their policies over longer time periods. One study found that 17 percent of individuals maintained their policies for more than two years, while another found that nearly 30 percent maintained policies for more than three years."

"Using these turnover estimates, a reasonable range for the percentage of individual policies that would terminate, and therefore relinquish their grandfather status, is 40 percent to 67 percent."

"These estimates assume that the policies that terminate are replaced by new individual policies, and that these new policies are not, by definition, grandfathered." -- Federal Register, 6/17/10

November 6, 2013 at 11:45 a.m.

It will never be accepted as normal, even though homosexuals and their advocates say it's "normal for them". A man inserting his penis in another man's anus will never be anything other than abnormal. A man performing fellatio will never be anything but abnormal to most of the population, because it isn't. No amount of legislation, or aggressive promotion by the media and hollywood will change that.

Homosexuals can do whatever they want, and they have a right to in this country. It's their life. But, to call someone a "homophobe" for not being ok with homosexual practices, and even persecuting them for saying what they think about it, is infringing on someone rights, and is bullying.

To deny that homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible is ridiculous, it says so enough times.

Start your own church then.

Everyone is a sinner, and everyone should be forgiving and tolerant, but that doesn't mean you should have to trash your faith so you're not called a homophobe.

November 6, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo. What's your point? The Jarrett administration clearly knew SOME policies would be camcelled. No?

November 6, 2013 at 12:08 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We tolerate all sexual practices and orientations because we are a caring church of love"

November 6, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So, zab, you think that all forms of sexual behavior except for the "missionary position" between a man and a woman should be banned as "unnatural"? Curious as to your definition of "natural". Also curious as to how you think that this ban should be enforced.

You know, most of the married couples in this country engage in a variety of sexual practices, including those practiced by same sex couples. I'm sure your church actively counsels its parishioners against them, right? Has them sign pledges not to do the naughty in any way but the "approved" way?

November 6, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu, you should address question re "missionary position" to AntiBelle.

November 6, 2013 at 12:26 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I believe that many fundamentalist Christians wear the label "homophobe" as a badge of honor. I'm sure that the con-man does. Notice how it's not just homosexuality that he detests; he seems to bristle at the very mention of the word LOVE. Apparently his God, like that of most fundies, is one who demands strict obedience first and foremost and if there is any compassion or love at all it's only secondary - and if it is only secondary then that is not really love.

The fundamentalists often refer to God as their heavenly father but he is more like a drill sergeant than a parent or a kindly old grandfather. To them it's more important to be an obedient Christian soldier than to be a benevolent, compassionate saint. Their entire outlook, not only for this life but even for the eternal life they think they are going to, is militaristic and war-like in nature. What a sad and miserable way to go through life.

November 6, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo. What's your point? The Jarrett administration clearly knew SOME policies would be camcelled. No?"

Through attrition, yes. However, as the regulation states, the 40-67 percent of policies that are being canceled are due to personal choice of the policy holder.

There is no widespread canceling of insurance policies by the insurers themselves AGAINST the will of those who have current policies. 5% of policies that were junk to start with, are not being allowed grandfather status, and they shouldn't be.

The 30 odd percent of those who have purchased individual policies, who want to keep them long term, will be grandfathered, just like the President promised.

You Obama opponents are grasping at every straw on the side of the mountain, to keep from facing the reality as it truly is.

November 6, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Caddy, I have long believed that pedophilia is most likely some kind of aberrant predisposition and those who indulge in it are driven by some psychopathic tendencies that push the limits of sanity and self-restraint. I have never understood how anyone could be sexually attracted to little kids who are a-sexual by nature and haven't even developed physically in a way that would make them sexually appealing. But even if it is proven that pedophiles are not necessarily evil but simply mentally unbalanced, which they obviously are, that doesn't mean that society will ever condone or normalize their behavior. For the very reasons that lkeithlu stated (it is not a victimless act), things like pedophilia or bestiality will never be considered legal or acceptable on any level.

I believe it's obvious that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition and no one "chooses" to be gay. But even if you stand by the argument that gays are consciously choosing to be the way they are, what two adults do in private, consensually, between themselves is nobody's business but their own. Even if society grants them the right to be married, that does not negate or diminish the sanctity of marriage between straight people. Homophobic fundies can and will no doubt keep proclaiming what a "sin" homosexuality is, but they are only showing how small minded they are and how wretched their lives are, to be so obsessively focused on what they deem to be the sins of others. They profess to be the most righteous among us but in fact they are the least spiritually enlightened of all.

November 6, 2013 at 1:15 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Our members tolerate all sexual practices and orientations because we are a caring church of love"

November 6, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.
jesse said...

Some thing that has ALWAYS puzzled me is GOD knows everything that has and ever will happened and knew how i was gonna turn out at the creation and yet put me here to pass a test that he knew i was gonna FAIL from the get go!! Like this is some kinda thing he does JUST so he has the pleasure of sending me to hell when he knew all along i wasn't gonna buy into his STUFF!I guess it gets pretty boring hangin around heaven all day!!

November 6, 2013 at 1:19 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

No Alpo. You're just spinning. Millions will lose coverage. The Ins. Cos. are canceling because 0care makes them null. Not complicated, Anthony.

November 6, 2013 at 1:20 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So Alpo, Yes or No. Did Obama lie about "you can keep you plan/doctor, period? Yay or nay?

November 6, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
alprova said...

The only argument against homosexuality are opinion based passages written by fellow humans, who lived many eons ago, in letters that have been compiled into a book known as the Bible.

Uber-religious people are certainly entitled to their own opinions, based on what they read in the Bible, but they are not entitled to use the power of Government to prevent anyone from seeking to live their lives as they see fit, so long as what they are or do does not harm another soul.

Those choosing to associate Pedophilia and bestiality alongside homosexuality, or to suggest that homosexuality is a step in any direction of acceptance of either of the other two is ridiculous.

Both of those acts is a heinous act that is performed without legal consent, and there are victims created every time one commits such an act.

Take away the Bible and there is no logical argument against homosexuality, unless you are as straight as an arrow.

Those who are homosexual can no more force their minds to change what they are attracted to, than those who are straight.

November 6, 2013 at 1:29 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "No Alpo. You're just spinning. Millions will lose coverage. The Ins. Cos. are canceling because 0care makes them null. Not complicated, Anthony."

Sub-standard policies are most definitely being canceled against the will of those who have them, and that's because they are junk policies. They provide very little in the way of benefits, or are canceled by the insurance companies the minute a claim is filed.

Millions? Perhaps, but the fact is the percentage of those who fall into that category is around 5% of the population.

The rest of that 40% to 67% are willfully deciding to cancel their own policies because they found an employer offering group insurance, Their health care needs have changed, they were married, may have pooped out a kid, etc.

November 6, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "So Alpo, Yes or No. Did Obama lie about "you can keep you plan/doctor, period? Yay or nay?"

Sir, you don't get to define my answers to your slanted questions.

To the 5% of those who had super slim policies in force, the answer to your question would be Yes.

To the rest of the nation, most of whom do not make insurance plan choices relative to their lives, the answer would be No.

November 6, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
jesse said...

Give it up P.T. Pinning Al down is like trying to nail jello to a wall!!!

November 6, 2013 at 1:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So he lied. Plain and simple. As did Sibelius. And others. And BTW, Alps, the question wasn't slanted in the least. Was straight on.

November 6, 2013 at 1:42 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Our members are practicing homosexuals, we practice what we preach and we do it with love"

November 6, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "Some thing that has ALWAYS puzzled me is GOD knows everything that has and ever will happened and knew how i was gonna turn out at the creation and yet put me here to pass a test that he knew i was gonna FAIL from the get go!! Like this is some kinda thing he does JUST so he has the pleasure of sending me to hell when he knew all along i wasn't gonna buy into his STUFF!I guess it gets pretty boring hangin around heaven all day!!"

Interesting paragraph...

If Hell is as it appears to be laid out in the Bible, to me, it sounds far less appealing.

But your premise is sound.

God does appear to have set us all up for failure, but at the same time, he has provided us all a loophole.

The details of that loophole have been a matter of debate for eons.

And because of that ongoing debate, every time an argument ensues, another Church is born.

November 6, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.
MarkB said...

Alprova, I totally agree that homosexuality is not like pedophilia or beastiality. I don't want to force God on anyone. It happens to be my belief standard which in effect, determines how I view certain issues. I don't believe that anyone has to explain why they have their feelings and convictions about any particular issue. That goes for both sides of the argument. We all have the right to feel the way we do without having to attack each other personally or without provoking each other to argue.

November 6, 2013 at 1:46 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "So he lied. Plain and simple. As did Sibelius. And others. And BTW, Alps, the question wasn't slanted in the least. Was straight on."

You and many others certainly see it that way, and that's fine.

You're pinning your opinion that he intentionally lied, based on an unrealistic expectation to the reality of the situation, which all depends on who selects an insurer and who pays most of the premiums for a policy.

Some people believe that the President's words suddenly changed the employer/employee relationship to mean that the employee suddenly gained the power to dictate a portion of their benefits to their employer, and that is elementarily stupid.

November 6, 2013 at 1:50 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Regarding the brouhaha that the right-wing-nuts are making of Obama's so-called lying about being able to keep your insurance plan if you like it: You can keep saying that he intentionally lied if you want to - and I'm sure you will - but it is more likely that he simply misspoke. If he slipped up at all it was in not foreseeing the extent to which the insurance companies would act in their own best interests to place profits above the needs of their policy holders. And that is the crux of why we will never have a viable, equitable health care system if we keep it privatized. Obamacare has imposed limited regulations on the industry but it needs to be more heavily regulated or taken entirely out of the hands of for-profit insurance companies. It will have to come to that if we ever have a viable, equitable health care system in this country.

It's funny to see you conservatives trying to defend these junk, "Acme" insurance plans, as if people, through their own free will, have preferred them over more comprehensive ones. But nobody PREFERS a junk plan! The only reason anybody takes one in the first place is because the more comprehensive ones are too damned expensive. Who in his right mind wants an insurance plan with a $5000 or $10,000 deductible and high co-pays? That is not health insurance, that is nothing but a Band-Aid policy to protect you from losing your house and savings in the event of something catastrophic happening. Many people have ended up bankrupt anyway, even with one of those plans.

There have been plenty of reports from the blue states where Obamacare has been up and running, at least better than in the red states that rejected early implementation of it, that the people are finding much better and more comprehensive health plans for less money through Obamacare than what they previously had through their individual policies. I suspect that once Obamacare gets up and running across the board, that is what more and more people will find. But you radical righties just keep jumping on every possible opportunity you can to trash the whole concept before it's even had a chance to rise or fall on its own merits.

November 6, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

For the love of God, man. He lied. He either A. willfully lied, or B. he's totally inept.

November 6, 2013 at 1:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

or C. both

November 6, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.
jesse said...

The bottom line for me Al IS When Obama made that statement DID he,at that time know it was FALSE! IMO He DID! Therefore he stood up in front of the country and tole a bald face lie!BTW: I voted for him twice,first time i believed his B/S and the second time because i could not bring myself to vote for Romney!

November 6, 2013 at 1:57 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We use the Queen James bible because Homosexuality is never condemned"

November 6, 2013 at 2:03 p.m.
jesse said...

HEY AL? If ya can't go for "HE LIED" how about he was "DISHONEST"?

BTW: INEPT is a given!No doubt about that!!

November 6, 2013 at 2:03 p.m.
alprova said...

MarkB wrote: "I don't want to force God on anyone."

Most true Christians adopt that very same outlook.

"It happens to be my belief standard which in effect, determines how I view certain issues. I don't believe that anyone has to explain why they have their feelings and convictions about any particular issue."

With some, it's very easy to understand why they feel the way they do about the issue.

"That goes for both sides of the argument. We all have the right to feel the way we do without having to attack each other personally or without provoking each other to argue."

I agree wholeheartedly.

One important point that someone brought up awhile ago, that I thought was very brilliant, is that if one bases their beliefs that Homosexuality is prohibited by their religious indoctrination, or because of cherry-picked passages from a Bible, then homosexuality is something that they have every right to not practice relative to their own life.

You have perfected the true Christian way of looking at the issue, but for some reason, there are many, so called Christians who are more concerned with what other people are doing, than they are interested in maintaining their own souls, and it tends to turn people away from religious belief, rather than to draw them in.

November 6, 2013 at 2:05 p.m.
alprova said...

The man inadvertently provided a false statement, that applied to a very slim minority of the population, none of which are the ones who are up in arms about it.

I in no manner believe that it was an intentionally orated false statement.

I dare offer that most everyone who is raking the President over the coals, are the very same people who are ALWAYS seeking to find something he has done wrong in the past.

Same story, different subject.

Just an extension of the same crap that he has had to endure for the last five years.

November 6, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

So PlainTruth,

Let's say you agree to buy your wife (or husband, daughter, or son) a particular model of car in two years. Two years pass and it's time to buy the car, but the company no longer makes that model.

Did you lie when you made that agreement?

November 6, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.
jesse said...

GUS< That analogy won't even flap it's wings! Unless the "promiser" is the one building the cars!!

November 6, 2013 at 2:18 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

That's weaksauce, Gaussin. Obama advisers knew the policies would be cancelled. Hard to imagine he didn't know also. Perplexing to me how you acolytes can condone blatant lies. Lie after lie. Amazing.

Alpo, don't throw out the red herring of "the same people, etc"…That has nothing to do with the lying issue…a classic example of the far left arrogance fully in bloom with thinly disguised contempt for the opposing side. SOS

November 6, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.
alprova said...

jesse wrote: "GUS< That analogy won't even flap it's wings! Unless the "promiser" is the one building the cars!!"

Actually it is a very good analogy, because in the case of the President, he does not write insurance policies either. He doesn't even have any control over what policies insurance companies wrote five years ago.

November 6, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo, don't throw out the red herring of "the same people, etc"…That has nothing to do with the lying issue…a classic example of the far left arrogance fully in bloom with thinly disguised contempt for the opposing side. SOS"

Oh...excuse me. I was totally unaware that up until now, you praised and respected the President.

Now who's lying?

November 6, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

So Jesse, when did Obama start writing insurance policies (if I am following your logic)?

And don't take my argument as trying to "cover for Obama's lying". I think it was short-sided of him to make the statement saying that everyone could keep their policies if they were happy with them. But do I take that as trying to intentionally deceive the American people? My answer is no.

November 6, 2013 at 2:32 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

It's a silly analogy. Gaussin's question presupposes no knowledge of car's demise. The leader almost certainly knew. Or he's totally out to lunch. which has been siggested

November 6, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Hate speech prohibited on these grounds, only the Queen James bible allowed"

November 6, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.
jesse said...

He is the DADDY of this,It was supposed to be his LEGACY ,He is responsible for the provisions of the law ! HIS name is ALL over this and ya tellin me even HE didn't know what was in it!!!

JESUS WEPT!!!

November 6, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.
MarkB said...

Jesse, God created man and woman. Their sole purpose for being created was to love and honor God. He have them a choice to do so. When they sinned everything as it was designed changed. Fast forward to Matthew, out of sheer love and sacrifice, God sent Jesus to die on the cross as a sacrifice for any and all sins of everyone so that anyone who chooses to can have a relationship with Jesus which promises eternal life. When you have a relationship with God you won't feel like you've been set up for disaster. The reason you feel that way is because its impossible to have genuine peace in this world apart from the Creator of it. I know it all sounds crazy and its a lot of information but you've obviously tried things your way and how's that working? Purely rhetorical BTW. When you get really fed up and done trying on your own, sincerely give God a chance.

November 6, 2013 at 2:41 p.m.
jesse said...

It's workin JUST FINE Mark! Has been every since I started THINKING in a logical way about 60 years ago!!HERE"S a link for you,maybe open your eyes!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071220013605AAQg1fN

This is the TRUE WAY w/o the need for a GOD!!

November 6, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Our loving and specially trained Homosexual Sunday School teachers are eager to teach and train your children"

November 6, 2013 at 3:49 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Is Obama’s claim of misspeaking instead of lying a “Modified Limited Hangout”?

He's ignorant and incompetent instead of a liar?

November 6, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

PlainTruth, how is it a silly analogy? Because what you are implying is that Obama knew exactly which insurance policies (which has to be in the several thousands) were going to be cancelled more than two years after he made the "You can keep you insurance..." comment. Sounds unrealistic to me.

November 6, 2013 at 4:36 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Conservative, are you not a homosexual simply because it is a sin?

November 6, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gaus: He made the statements as recently as a few dAys ago. And yes, of course he knew policies would be canceled. What's the matter with you?

November 6, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We retain the right to determine the truth apart from homophobic men of the Bible"

November 6, 2013 at 4:49 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

PlainTruth, you are letting your political differences with Obama interfere with your ability to make sound judgment. Inferring what you think he knew or not knew is just speculation, not supportable evidence.

November 6, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Wrong, Gaus. If he knew, he lied. If he didn't know, he's dumb as a keg of nails.

November 6, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.
jesse said...

Damn if con man ain't actin like them BURMA SHAVE signs used to be beside the old two lane hi ways!!Batty as a tree full of Hoot Owls!!

November 6, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

Let's say you agree to buy your wife (or husband, daughter, or son) a particular model of car in two years. Two years pass and it's time to buy the car, but the company no longer makes that model.

Did you lie when you made that agreement?

I would like to know if this situation is limited to only the immediate family as you seem to imply. This would be very helpful to me as I have promised a new car of a particular model to a person, not in my immediate family, for graduation. Is it possible that I could get them a $50 gift card at The Sizzler and it not make me out to be a liar. I just found out how much the car costs and I don’t really like them ... That Much! Can I just say that I misspoke or was stoned at the time as that seems to be working for certain people?

BTW .... with a moniker like yours you must have the big brain to answer these type of questions.

November 6, 2013 at 5:30 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Homosexual? New membership classes forming, we never condemn your behavior, no repentance required, join a loving church today"

November 6, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

I wouldn't be so convinced he lied if it weren't for so much other smoke and fire around these other subjects...In Obama’s campaign, he promised to “eliminate entirely” income tax for seniors making less than $50,000. On an interview on The Today Show Obama claimed he won the Michigan & Illinois Primaries. My father served in World War II. Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk. We got back Every Dime we Used to Rescue the Banks with Interest. I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. The only involvement I had with Acorn was doing some stuff with the justice department. No more Illegal Wire Tapping of American Citizens. The Promise to Walk the Picket Line if Workers are Denied the Right to Bargain. Lower health care premiums by $2,500. And the one that's going to bite him in the butt the worst... Those were just demonstrations in Benghazi.

November 6, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

If Obama just misspoke his 16 words (24 different times) that obviously means that Bush also misspoke his 16 words (1 time) and as a result he didn’t lie us into the Iraq war? “The Big Brain” has declared that to be a lie it must be an intentional untruth and that we can’t read other people’s mind to prove their intent.... Right?

November 6, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gaussian: I never advanced past college algebra. Sorry.

November 6, 2013 at 5:53 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Homosexual? WE have a medical staff on hand with free advice on disease prevention"

November 6, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

I could believe he misspoke when he said there are 57 states in the US. I think what we're dealing with here is a mispromise. I've given up on the HOPE, and had enough of the CHANGE.

November 6, 2013 at 6:11 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Our guarantee, One (1) free bingo card if our greeters fail to say "we love you" as you enter our church"

November 6, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.
alprova said...

Hope the cartoon changes tonight.

conservative is running out of material to post.

Now he's whining about bingo cards.

November 6, 2013 at 7:35 p.m.
rick1 said...

Obama lied about his mother being denied coverage when she had cancer. Obama is shameless.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/110613-678185-obama-mother-preexisting-condition-denial-another-whopper.htm?p=full

November 6, 2013 at 7:41 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

Coming soon special quest speaker David Cook with his message "No, no, umpteen times no. The God of Christians doesn’t hate homosexuality"

November 6, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.
klifnotes said...

PT said: And yes, of course he knew policies would be canceled. What's the matter with you?

Not true, PT. Those policies being cancelled by insurance companies were cheap, worthless policies anyway. They were like buying an accidental death police, but dying of natural causes. The accidental death policy pays nothing, and will only reimburse you for the premiums paid.

Read, educate yourself, stop listening to buying into right wingnut rhetoric and join the world of intellectuals who are enlightened:

Regarding that thing about various insurance companies canceling policies, what the concern trolls in the press and especially the tea party Republicans won't tell you is that insurance companies are now required by law to offer new policies to customers that comply with mandatory benefits in the ACA -- benefits that aren't included in cheap, pointless junk policies. Bargain-basement policies with practically nonexistent benefits will now be replaced with similarly affordable coverage that includes expanded benefits, including the well-known elimination of lifetime and annual limits, free preventative checkups and more. Now, due to the ACA, Americans buying or replacing insurance policies will easily qualify for affordable health exchange plans with considerably greater benefits and significantly lower deductibles.

Personally, I'd rather pay a $97 premium for a policy that covers everything, without limits, than for an existing $54 policy that covers nothing and which limits everything.

See Political writer Bob Cesca/Huffington Post

The reason the GOP wants to destroy the ACA, or delay it, is because the penalty part, which they insisted on before they would agree to sign on, can't be enforced. They're pis/sed that the writers pulled one over on them right before their eyes. See, they wanted Americans who continued to go without any coverage to have liens put on their property, arrested (like you now can be arrested for not having car insurance). But the law was written in such a way that the penalty phase of the law can not be enforced or carried out. No one can lose their home, car or freedom if they fail to buy medical insurance! 'nuf Said!!

November 6, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

If any of you are still curious on how Obama won the last election, just look at the posts from the guy that calls himself Conservative. The GOP has been hijacked by loons. Definitely not the party of Reagan.

And hang in there Imbourgeois, just a little over three years before Obama leaves office.

November 6, 2013 at 8:01 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

What is the secular overriding need for the state to sanction marriage in the 21st century. What can modern society gain from it that justifies the effort and cost to subsidize it with tax funds?

“The contrast between the characteristically ancient organic preoccupation with social obligations and responsibilities and the characteristically modern mechanical preoccupation with individual rights and self-expression is clearly reflected in the contrasting views concerning marriage . But even in the context of a more individualistic view of marriage, modern man never wholly abandoned the conception of a nuclear and self-sufficient family as the fundamental stabilizing unit of society -- until now, when we are told by cutting-edge leaders and intellectuals that the essential purpose of marriage is not to stabilize society but to serve as a form of legal recognition of union set up for the mutual benefit and gratification of individuals.

The social and in particular familial chaos that has resulted from this extremely individualistic, even anarchic, view conveniently plays right into the hands of the statists of the social welfare state who are more than happy to babysit, care for, educate, feed, and indoctrinate your child while you pursue your own personal desires and goals.

Here then is the crux of the matter: while the left is busy pushing gay marriage, it is simultaneously doing everything to undermine heterosexual marriage, because the family arising from heterosexual marriage represents an alternate source of authority to the state, which the statists will not tolerate. This weakening of the integrity of the traditional family, along with the removal of all religious sensibility from society, is the real reason why the progressives so strongly support gay marriage.

Gay marriage supports and strengthens the statists' assault on the institution of traditional marriage. Based upon the present illegitimacy rate of forty percent in America and an even greater rate of divorce, it is clear that the statists are having a great deal of success in assaulting and undermining traditional marriage.

Paradoxically the push for gay marriage undermines the gay agenda because, if the gay lifestyle has its own intrinsic validity, as we are constantly being told, then why do homosexuals feel that they must define the way they conduct their lives by heterosexual standards and mores, such as marriage and child rearing?

(cont)

November 6, 2013 at 8:01 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

(cont)

Does not this insistence by gay people to be entitled to conduct themselves in accord with heterosexual parameters confound all their talk about the unique or special qualities of the gay existence? Shouldn't gays be looking for solutions more in accord with their own lifestyle, rather than that of heterosexuals?

The amount of confusion that results from poorly understood or defined terms, purposes and goals is always considerable. To make sense of things clear thinking is required, terms must be precisely defined and the implications of decisions must be thoroughly understood. Should traditional marriage have a place in the civil society? What does the civil society wish to foster or gain by sanctioning the institution of marriage? What should the essential attributes of marriage be? Such matters must be discussed and settled before laws are written.”

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/marriage_and_the_civil_society.html#ixzz2jucrTG7i

November 6, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.
klifnotes said...

caddy said... "In the late 1950's and early 1960's, I began to notice a drift of men into perversions, and now women also. The men, for example, found that not only marital sex but also adulteries were no longer capable of exciting them. As a result, they were experimenting with anal sex, homosexuality, child molestation, incest, and like perversions as a means of reviving their flagging sexuality.

Those things have been going on for centuries. Technology just condensed them,made the world smaller and everyone's now more aware.

November 6, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"No faith, no problem, love is all you need"

November 6, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Shouldn't gays be looking for solutions more in accord with their own lifestyle, rather than that of heterosexuals?"

Why do heterosexuals marry in the first place? Is it simply because they are heterosexual or is it because they are in love? I didn't marry my wife because I was trying to make a statement; it was because I loved her and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. I would suspect the overwhelming majority gays simply feel the same way.

November 6, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Kliffnotes, you are delusional. Tens of thousands of quality, Cadillac plans are being canceled. Where have you been? You guys are incorrigible.

November 6, 2013 at 8:15 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"In our morning service we will join hands and sing Kum bay ya, medical gloves will be furnished"

November 6, 2013 at 8:19 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of TRUE churches:

"Conservative likes to take it in the pooper"

November 6, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Kliffnotes, you are delusional. Tens of thousands of quality, Cadillac plans are being canceled. Where have you been? You guys are incorrigible."

Proof please?

November 6, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Do you not watch the news? Read? Listen?

(CBS News) CBS News has learned more than two million Americans have been told they cannot renew their current insurance policies -- more than triple the number of people said to be buying insurance under the new Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare. Special Section: Obamacare Kicks Off

There have been estimates about hundreds of thousands of people losing coverage, CBS News' Jan Crawford reported on "CBS This Morning." CBS News has reached out to insurance companies across the country to determine some of the real numbers -- and this is just the tip of the iceberg, Crawford said. The people who are opening the letters are shocked to learn they can't keep their insurance policies despite President Obama's assurances to the contrary. I believe, ALPO, you have stated that CBS is one of your go to sources.

November 6, 2013 at 9:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Gaussuanlnteger wrote: "..."Conservative likes to take it in the pooper"..."

I don't believe that he "likes" to do it, because his religious indoctrination prohibits it, but there is absolutely no question that he certainly has had it on his mind all day long.

conservative is the most sexually frustrated man who has probably inhabited this earth, with the possible exception of those who wrote about sexual immorality in the Bible.

They were probably not getting any either...

November 6, 2013 at 9:37 p.m.
alprova said...

Ah, but PT, no where in that quote does the phrase "Cadillac plan" appear.

You made the statement that "Cadillac plans" were being yanked.

No one has denied that there are those with very sub-standard policies finding themselves having to seek a better alternative, which will be available to them, but you claimed that "Cadillac plans" were being canceled.

November 6, 2013 at 9:41 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So you're saying all of these policies are substandard, catastrophic plans? Is that what you're saying alps?

November 6, 2013 at 9:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Two million people being notified that their insurance policies are being canceled, represents about 6 tenths of percent of all Americans.

It is estimated that 5% of all policies currently issued are sub-standard at best, and worthless at their worst. These people will find themselves able to choose far better coverage, for rates equal to or slightly more than they are currently paying for junk insurance that currently pays next to nothing.

You and CBS are flapping your wings over nothing.

November 6, 2013 at 9:48 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

You, little round man, are a fool.

November 6, 2013 at 9:52 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "So you're saying all of these policies are substandard, catastrophic plans? Is that what you're saying alps?"

What I have been stating all day is very simple;

If someone has a policy in place today that they selected themselves, that they have been consistently paying the premiums from their own pocket since 2009, and that is easily amended to meet the minimum qualifications that policies are to offer, then there is no question that such people will be able to keep their policies.

Those who are receiving cancellation notices are those with junk policies that in no manner can be amended to meet the minimum standards.

And that Sir, is expected to affect a maximum of about 5% of those currently insured, albeit barely.

November 6, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "You, little round man, are a fool."

I consider you to be woefully ignorant enough about the subject to not even be bothered in the slightest by your little barbs, which only prove your inability to begin to know how to flush your little turds down the crapper.

November 6, 2013 at 10:05 p.m.
rick1 said...

PT, you will want to look at this. A couple who are loyal supporters of Obama have received a cancelation notice on their Kaiser Permanente Health Insurance coverage plan because it did not meet the requirements of ObamaCare. The couple have been paying $550 a month for their health coverage, but the costs will be around double what they pay now, and the benefits will be worse.

Yeah our government knosw so much about health insurance and can make a better decision then us on what we must carry in our health insurance policy.

Here are links to the policy the couple carried in 2013 and what their policy will be in 2014.

There is also a link that lists what coverage is mandatory under ObamaCare and this is why insurance rates are increasing.

It won't be long before ObamaCare is like Venezuela's healthcare

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/815690-kaiser2013benefits

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/815691-kaiser2014benefits

http://www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org/content/docs/facts/ObamaCare-and-its-Mandates.pdf

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/06/loyal-obama-supporters-health-insurance-canceled-by-obamacare/#ixzz2jvQNxph3

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VENEZUELA_SICK_HEALTH_CARE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-11-06-00-10-00

November 6, 2013 at 10:12 p.m.

The Intern didn’t know that his promises were false ones, or even that they were improbable. He is too much of a troobeeleever in his own salvific powers and in those of the state for that. He, like all liberals, is simply naïve. He’s finding the law of unintended consequences to be quite the b_ _ _ _. The nightmare has only begun.

November 6, 2013 at 10:49 p.m.
alprova said...

rick, the one aspect of that story that is missing, and that aspect is more likely behind Kaiser's choice to cancel their policies.

They both are soon going to be age 60.

Kaiser is doing a great job of relating health care industry changes of other companies, but fails to explain why it is canceling policies right and left.

One thing you detractors need to wrap your minds around, is the fact that insurance companies TODAY are allowed to act as they have always acted in the past.

They are not obligated to continue coverage if they do not want to, and the President as well as State insurance commissioners across the country are powerless to demand them to not cancel current policies.

Kaiser has a habit of cutting people off at age 60, just like many automobile insurers.

Their reasoning is that although someone may go decades without any serious claims, the time has come for them to have one, so to stay money ahead, the insurer will cancel.

Alfa Insurance is one motor vehicle insurer that sheds seniors like some dogs shed hair. Loyalty means nothing to that company.

November 6, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Only 5% of insured Americans will see there policies get cancelled? I heard 129 million on CNN. That's like 40%. You need to go to fact checker. They even said a lot of group plans would see cancellations. Insurance companies are following the law. They are taking in unhealthy policy holders, paying for their healthcare, passing the costs on to the policy holders, then adding 15% to make a profit. That equation looks something like this.... (Policy premiums)(policy premiums x 0.15) - healthcare costs= Policy premiums x 0.15 When healthcare costs go way up, so do premiums. Please refrain from lying to yourself anymore

November 6, 2013 at 11:11 p.m.
alprova said...

rick, I also want to address your assertion that we are headed for a "Venezuela breakdown."

From the article you linked to;

"The government controls the dollars needed to buy medical supplies and has simply not made enough available."

Our Government does not and is not slated to start controlling the dollars needed to buy medical supplies.

Your comparison is apples to watermelons.

November 6, 2013 at 11:14 p.m.
alprova said...

Hey, it's real simple...

If insurers decide to price themselves out of a job, more power to them.

Chicken wing flappers come in all shapes, sizes, and are some even have degrees.

No one will even know how this is going to play out until it has a chance to succeed or fail.

It is nothing more than a guessing game.

November 6, 2013 at 11:23 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Crap shoot? Figure it out as you go type deal? Sounds like the fat lady is singing a new song about obamacare

November 6, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Rick, you can't reason with a crazy man.

November 6, 2013 at 11:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

“Equal rights aren’t a debate. They should be a given.”

Assuming you are serious does that apply to those preferring to remain single? It is not for anyone to judge what is moral for someone else. There are two reasons why it is not appropriate to require tax payers to fund marriage, civil unions or contracts between any two people:

1-The fiduciary responsibility of the mayor and council to be good stewards of tax payer money.

2-The discrimination against those preferring to be single should end and not be continuously expanded.

Why do politicians appoint themselves as promoters of marriage or any other cohabitation arrangement? There are over 1000 ways that singles are discriminated against at all government levels, the most obvious is single income tax rates being higher than for a married couple, head of household and other exceptions. A high percent of local property tax dollars goes to education and the school systems, why do singles have to help educate, provide shelter, feed and cloth the rug rats of those that think their role in life is to proliferate? There is no legitimate reason why the mate or any family member should be provided benefits by their employer, citizens of the city.

The only change when comparing this council and mayor to those they replaced with promises of assuring good value per tax dollar are the names of the players.

Those same bible toting holier than thou objectors also condone and encourage the blatant discrimination against singles that are not gay and not seeking marriage or to cohabit in any way. No homophobia, just tired of politicians acting like daddy warbucks buying votes with tax money and calling it being fair.

November 7, 2013 at 2:14 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Those who are receiving cancellation notices are those with junk policies that in no manner can be amended to meet the minimum standards.

One man's junk is another's treasure. So what is a policy fails to provide Viagra, prenatal or birthing? Any policy where changes are made has to be canceled even if the individual prefers keeping it.

I don't know nor do you know whether the affordable insurance act is good or bad, it remains to be seen. The results can't be known until they get the damn thing up and running. The next crisis may be those canceled and unable to get enrolled before January 1st leaving them uninsured until they can get enrolled if they can afford it.

November 7, 2013 at 2:27 a.m.
fairmon said...

A credibility stretch.

I had defended the president and attributed his statements to not being familiar with details and ignorance of the law when he said things like "this I can guarantee" and "you can keep it...PERIOD" However, he is now saying "we" said you can keep what you have unless there are changes made after the law was passed which is very different than if you like your insurance or you like the doctor you have you can keep them without exception.

Why not man up and just say "like I said in meetings with opponents, we won the election and this is the way we are going to do it". I know what I want so shut up and roll over, this is the way it is whether you like it or not.

November 7, 2013 at 2:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

I am plagiarizing this for the debt and deficit debate pending for early next year. You may or may not recognize the source which I don't attribute so it is plagiarism.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

November 7, 2013 at 2:52 a.m.
degage said...

Yup, Al has Obama's talking points down pat! Obama said "if you like you policy you can keep it" not if I like your policy you can keep it. All that is going on is to eventually move into single payer and you know it. What the democrats really want is to have control over the lives of the masses. It is all about power.

Al, do you plan on going into an advantage plan when Medicare kicks in? If so be advised they ask if you have renal failure and then deny your application if you do. How do I know, I have an advantage plan and that was one of the first questions on the ap, so I asked the man about the question and he told me it would be denied.

November 7, 2013 at 5:37 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Those same bible toting holier than thou objectors also condone and encourage the blatant discrimination against singles that are not gay and not seeking marriage or to cohabit in any way."

Are you still a virgin or do you occasionally practice fornication?

Don't answer that question, but unless you are choosing your singular lifestyle and have been 100% chaste, the Bible beaters like are just as likely to condemn fornicators as they are Homosexuals.

Never mind the fact that Adam and Eve were never married. That is merely one of those pesky details that the humans who created the Bible left out, which makes all this debate over what constitutes a marriage rather silly.

If we lived according to the Bible, a simple declaration that two have entered into marriage would be quite sufficient, but then that would cut the States out of their collection of associated fees for the license.

November 7, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

Pssst. Hey alkarma, the cartoon subject is apples, not lemons.

November 7, 2013 at 6:30 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "One man's junk is another's treasure. So what is a policy fails to provide Viagra, prenatal or birthing? Any policy where changes are made has to be canceled even if the individual prefers keeping it."

Junk policies are among those that do not provide hospitalization coverage at all, and are mainly offered to those less likely to wind up sick. They may have a meager amount of ER coverage for accidents, but not illness.

November 7, 2013 at 6:35 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, do you plan on going into an advantage plan when Medicare kicks in?"

I am already aware that because I live in one of the 38 states that does not force Medicare Advantage insurers to offer coverage to those in my predicament, that I will most likely not be able to find one that will.

"If so be advised they ask if you have renal failure and then deny your application if you do."

Yep...already know it.

"How do I know, I have an advantage plan and that was one of the first questions on the ap, so I asked the man about the question and he told me it would be denied."

There are only 12 states that require insurers to offer coverage to those with Stage 4 kidney disease.

I'll just have to do whatever I can to take care of myself the best that I can, in order to avoid racking up those 20% co-pays.

November 7, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

If we lived according to the Bible, a simple declaration that two have entered into marriage would be quite sufficient, but then that would cut the States out of their collection of associated fees for the license.

The state could issue a selection of free issue contracts that included the commitments to be faithful to each other and how dissolving of the contract would be handled. The state could prohibit any special treatment for two people versus one. That would cut out too many lawyers but free up the courts for more important matters.

November 7, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

What is it with the compulsion to drag the ACA into every political cartoon published in the TFP? The last 25 or so posts are completely irrelevant to the subject of the cartoon which is religious hypocrisy.

November 7, 2013 at 6:59 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova....

Why if asking about pre-existing conditions is prohibited and no maximum on claims can you not go to the exchange and obtain your insurance instead of Medicare disability?

November 7, 2013 at 7 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al, reference your post from 11:06pm last night I noticed you failed to mention the fact that the couples current insurance policy is being canceled because it does not meet the mandate standards of ObamaCare.

You also posted "rick, the one aspect of that story that is missing, and that aspect is more likely behind Kaiser's choice to cancel their policies."

"They both are soon going to be age 60."

"Kaiser is doing a great job of relating health care industry changes of other companies, but fails to explain why it is canceling policies right and left."

Please provide proof that this is happening by Kaiser's own choice and has nothing to do with the mandates that are required under ObamaCare.

I provided a link, which shows how ObamaCare has impacted the cost of their premiums and a link showing what mandates insurance companies are required to provide in policies.

All you have done is divert attention away from what the facts are in my post from 10:12pm last night and have not given any proof to back up what you have said.

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/815690-kaiser2013benefits

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/815691-kaiser2014benefits

http://www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org/content/docs/facts/ObamaCare-and-its-Mandates.pdf

November 7, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Special Offering envelops for construction of transgender restroom to be distributed in morning service"

November 7, 2013 at 7:03 a.m.
fairmon said...

inquiringmind said...

The last 25 or so posts are completely irrelevant to the subject of the cartoon which is religious hypocrisy.

My guess is the number of hypocrites posting that prefer to avoid the subject. I have seen nothing in the last several weeks that indicates there is a true Christian among us, not one.

November 7, 2013 at 7:08 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We have a different way a different truth and a different life"

November 7, 2013 at 7:17 a.m.
fairmon said...

Definition of Insanity:

"Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured....but not everyone must prove they are a citizen". "And, now, any of those who refuse, or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens". Ben Stein

Give you a headache, won't it? We are officially living in an idiocracy.

November 7, 2013 at 7:27 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Why if asking about pre-existing conditions is prohibited and no maximum on claims can you not go to the exchange and obtain your insurance instead of Medicare disability?"

There is no prohibition to ask if you have pre-existing conditions. They cannot turn you down for insurance because of pre-existing conditions, but they can rate your premiums accordingly.

Renal failure was absolutely one of the medical questions asked when I attempted to sign up on the national exchange.

As soon as I click on the "next" button, after answering that question with a "yes", the site offered to forward my application to Social Security, and Georgia's Medicaid program.

November 7, 2013 at 7:42 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ben Stein lost my respect when he did the film "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". He clearly has no qualms making statements about things he is ignorant of, and needs to be thoroughly fact-checked.

November 7, 2013 at 7:42 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Please provide proof that this is happening by Kaiser's own choice and has nothing to do with the mandates that are required under ObamaCare."

Are you under any impression that an insurance company would ever admit to doing such a thing? That would be the very definition of age discrimination, but that does not mean that it does not occur.

"I provided a link, which shows how ObamaCare has impacted the cost of their premiums and a link showing what mandates insurance companies are required to provide in policies."

No...what you showed were comparisons of two policies, that may or may not be reflective of anything factual or that which pertains to the two people named in that article.

If they had a decent policy issued by Kaiser, and Kaiser canceled it, it was not due to ObamaCare. It was due to Kaiser's refusal to keep it on force.

By your own proof, Kaiser is very willing to amend policies to conform to ObamaCare requirements and if the policy holder agrees with those amendments, "you need to do nothing."

If their income is such that they do not qualify for subsidies, then ObamaCare will most likely do nothing to save them money. ObamaCare is not designed to help every single American save money on their health care insurance. It is designed to provide health care insurance options for those who can least afford it.

These two are Californians. California set up their own health care insurance exchange. Their beef, if they truly have one, is with their State insurance commissioner and Kaiser.

"All you have done is divert attention away from what the facts are in my post from 10:12pm last night and have not given any proof to back up what you have said."

And because Kaiser is not about to admit that they do discriminate against older Americans, no proof will ever be forthcoming.

There are people reading this who have been victim to insurance cancellations once, twice, maybe even more times, even if they have been claim free for decades.

If they don't live in states that have a handle on this practice by many top tier insurers, they wind up seeking another insurance company, which will always be found, but not at rates that they previously enjoyed.

Insurance companies are masters of determining when it is time to dump an insured, due to an increased amount of risk. They play the numbers game all the time.

You want proof? Hit 60 and see how many policies you have in force start being canceled, no matter your health or claim record.

November 7, 2013 at 8:02 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We only use the Queen James bible because it prevents homophobic misinterpretation"

November 7, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "The state could issue a selection of free issue contracts that included the commitments to be faithful to each other and how dissolving of the contract would be handled. The state could prohibit any special treatment for two people versus one. That would cut out too many lawyers but free up the courts for more important matters."

Not going to happen, and the reason why it will never happen is because doing so would put several million Attorneys out of work overnight and the court fees collected represent bread and butter to the States.

Marriage and divorce are big business and the states bank on both.

November 7, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

court fees collected represent bread and butter to the States.

Marriage and divorce are big business and the states bank on both.

I agree, as often said, common sense is not very common and those in power will not give up anything.

November 7, 2013 at 8:34 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Come hear special guest speaker Rosie O'Donnell and her wife with their unique message of love"

November 7, 2013 at 8:46 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Renal failure was absolutely one of the medical questions asked when I attempted to sign up on the national exchange.

As soon as I click on the "next" button, after answering that question with a "yes", the site offered to forward my application to Social Security, and Georgia's Medicaid program.

Were there other questions about pre-existing conditions? That may be an exception and anyone with that illness automatically moves to Medicare of Medicaid. A selling point of the act was there will be no penalty or discrimination in premiums for pre-existing conditions. There is no high risk pool like auto insurance. The reason for requiring the healthy to have insurance and seeking the young and healthy is to off set the risk and cost of those that are higher risk.

Good luck on getting approved promptly. I assume SSI is not included since your income will not enable you to qualify.

November 7, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.
alprova said...

"Were there other questions about pre-existing conditions?"

I don't remember any other questions along those lines, but that's not to say that there weren't more to come. As soon as I answered that first one, BOOM...I was derailed.

"That may be an exception and anyone with that illness automatically moves to Medicare of Medicaid."

It appears to be the case.

"A selling point of the act was there will be no penalty or discrimination in premiums for pre-existing conditions."

ObamaCare assures that no insurance company offering coverage in the exchanges is allowed to deny you a policy if you want to pay for one, but there is no prohibition against asking questions about pre-existing conditions.

I just read another interesting fact. ANY group or individual insurance policy that was in effect on March 23, 2010, is allowed grandfather status, even if it does not meet the requirements of ObamaCare, IF the insurance company desires to keep it in effect.

This means that all this crap about ObamaCare being responsible for the canceling of insurance policies, is more likely due to them being issued AFTER March 23, 2010.

"There is no high risk pool like auto insurance."

That will eventually be true, but you can bet that high risk policies will be lumped together for quite some time to come.

"The reason for requiring the healthy to have insurance and seeking the young and healthy is to off set the risk and cost of those that are higher risk."

Which will have to happen if ObamaCare is to succeed.

"Good luck on getting approved promptly."

It's all done.

"I assume SSI is not included since your income will not enable you to qualify."

No...I do not qualify for SSI due to my PREVIOUS income. Up until 2009, I had several years of maximized earnings, which puts me WAY over the top.

November 7, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"In the spirit of love we recommend the Queen James bible, the new Homosexual-friendly bible"

November 7, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.
GBO81 said...

You know, Conservative, you're just a laughable, irrelevant person. Your drivel just shows how pathetic and ignorant you really are. Feel free to keep on posting your inane, hate-filled tripe. Enjoy it, in fact. There is one thing you need to keep in mind, though: Marriage equality is happening and there is nothing you can do to stop it. It will be law in all 50 states within the next five years. Sure, you can keep on braying like a donkey, but it isn't going to stop it from happening. And you know what else? You and your kind are dying off. Your hateful way of thinking is ending and it scares you to death. The rest of us aren't going to miss you when you're gone. So, please continue you old relic. The rest of us are going to live in a society with a little less frothing hatred and just a little more understanding and empathy. Maybe without you and yours the rest of us Christians can actually go about sharing the Gospel without having to differentiate ourselves from people like you. Enjoy your delusions of internet grandeur while you can...I don't think the nursing home you're about to check into will allow you go to the bathroom by yourself -- much less get on the internet with the normal people. Cheers!

November 7, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We are a church of love, we condone what the Bible condemns"

November 7, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Still waiting on forum members to admit that obama lied.

November 7, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"We are in the process of replacing our pew bibles with the Queen James bible. We have redacted the homophobic passages in the King James until then"

November 7, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.
Imbourgeois said...

PT, they all know he lied, they just have too much "compassion" to admit it, so they're happy lying along with him.

November 7, 2013 at 11:41 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

But borzwah, it's scary sad.

November 7, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

He lied when he said he would close Guantanamo Bay shortly after being elected. What president hasn't lied in the modern era? They all say what they think people want to hear in order to get elected. I'm not condoning lying, but if you believe every word that comes out of a politician's mouth, regardless of the R or D that follows their name, then you have bigger problems than being able to keep your insurance.

November 7, 2013 at 11:56 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

ok, gaus. that makes great sense. they all do it, so ok, right? are you related to alpo?

November 7, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
Imbourgeois said...

What a cop out, Gussy. No one does it like this administration. Hell, even Richard Nixon is kind of getting exonerated during this fiasco.

PT, you more astute than I knew. (borzwah)

November 7, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I guess you overlooked the part where I said, "I'm not condoning lying", and I even offered you another example where he did lie. But the Obama should be holier than thou is ridiculous.

November 7, 2013 at 12:05 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

I'm even allowing him a little slack in the campaign arena. But, this is way past that.

November 7, 2013 at 12:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

borzwah, or is it boozwah? whatever. I'm full of surprises, Boo.

November 7, 2013 at 12:08 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Imbourgeois, it's not a cop-out. I'm not happy with the Obama administration either, but I sure as hell wasn't unhappy enough to vote for Romney in the last election. I am saying that ALL politicians lie, but we tend to give passes to those that belong to the party we support. But since I am an independent, I don't give either party a pass.

November 7, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"Congratulations to our members Adam and Steve who have married in Massachusetts"

"We love you and miss you."

"Hurry home"

November 7, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

Got it GaussianInteger. I used to claim to be Republican, left them. Now consider myself conservative, but try to be open minded. What I am saying is at 51 years old, I can't recall anyone coming close to being as smug, arrogant, etc, as this guy is. He's either orchestrating everything in his administration, which he should be doing, or he's the most incompetent person to ever hold that office. He hides everything and knows nothing about it when it's found. Hmmm... Maybe at night, not last night.

November 7, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Boo sums it up. What's troubling are the supporters. Most know he lied, but don't give a shiz. That's the troubling part.

November 7, 2013 at 12:25 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Yeah, but Reagan lied and he is an icon to many. Clinton lied and he is icon to many. Again, people turn a blind eye to people they like and support. As long as the success of a campaign is determined by the amount of money is spent, it will be impossible to hold any candidate (Republican or Democrat) to being 100% truthful.

November 7, 2013 at 12:36 p.m.
limric said...

PlainTruth,

While not defending the president, the link below is a pretty interesting 'spin' around the politispeak block regarding the quote: "If you like your plan, you can keep it."

BUT--

The Möbius strip you've put yourself in with a demmand for the accusatory confirmation you seem to have such penchant for is becoming a tad droll.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4175715

November 7, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.
facyspacy said...

alp enjoys his 20% copay. That is a good co pay when looking at Obamacare. Gold plan is 60-40,silver is 70-30, gold is 80-20, and platinum is 90-10. I currently have a 1000 deductible and 100% after that deductible. To get a comparable plan (Platinum) it would cost me $423 more. I have never used my lan except for Dr office visits which I have 6 of them a year.

Bottom line. 18% of the nations wealth is tied up in Insurance. Now the government wants to control it.

There is 17 trillion tied up in people's retirement plans. Our national debt is 17 trillion. Now the government wants to control that as well allowing Americans to invest in US debt. Have you checked your SS returns lately? It is a negative return. http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/now-obama-wants-your-401k/

November 7, 2013 at 12:50 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"God won't change so we change what God says about Homosexuality"

November 7, 2013 at 12:51 p.m.
MarkB said...

Jesse, good luck with that. I wouldn't suggest using your link when you give an account for your life to God. That's gonna be awkward.

November 7, 2013 at 1:05 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

facy, clearly you have a substandard, catastrophic plan. The gubmint will help you out by disallowing your lousy plan. Let a bureaucrat pick your plan, man.

November 7, 2013 at 1:08 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"At our church you can claim to be a Christian while practicing your choice of sex"

November 7, 2013 at 1:22 p.m.

Obama did not lie. He was wrong. He should admit that he was wrong, not that he lied.

November 7, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

I can see your point, GaussianInteger, but this guy takes the cake. He hides more about his life, education, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the Not so Affordable Healthcare Act, than anyone can keep up with. Opponents couldn't create this much phony crap if they wanted to. Everything about him you look at has missing pieces and more questions that he won't and/or can't be answered.

Only the down-in-the-tank-for-him people could stand with him on these subjects. Anyone with half a brain has to be asking questions, whether they admit it or not.

I think his legacy, in time, will prove him to be the most dangerous and corrupt president we've ever known, and will have done more damage to the US and our dealings abroad (spying and such) than any before him.

November 7, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

If only hypocrisy were confined to religious believers! Unfortunately, the posts of God-deniers on this (and every other) online forum are no less sanctimonious and bigoted than those of religious believers. Sin and its resultant phobias, though often carefully masked, are endemic among fallen humanity. All of us are what is wrong with the world. It is the most empirically verifiable doctrine to be found in an incomparably wise and verifiable book: the Bible. The good news is that sinners, including CINOs, who repent and believe the teachings of Christ and His apostles, will become part of the most inclusive, diverse, and shalom-producing institution in the history of the planet.

November 7, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Conservative sez, "A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:"

It must be nice to be (or claim to be) as all-knowing as God having the ability to look into peoples' heart and know they are false. Of course, there are some pretty harsh words available to those who presume to know the mind of God...

November 7, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

The US has been spying on nations (enemy and friend) for several decades now. Reagan had the Iran-Contra affair, but not many bring that up when you speak of him; JFK had the Bay of Pigs; Nixon with Watergate; etc. Time has a way of making us forget things, so I guess the jury is still out on Obama. I will make a prediction and say that if Hillary runs and wins the election in 2016, I suspect many conservative pundits will look more favorably on Obama than they do now.

Limric, are you versed in compact manifolds?

November 7, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.
conservative said...

inquiringmind:

God's word IS the mind of God. The mind and will of God is contained in the word of God.

Homosexuality is a grave sin and NO Homosexual will inherit the Kingdom of God(1Corinthians 6:9-10.

Those who teach otherwise are false teachers because they teach false doctrine, doctrine opposed to God's precious word.

Those who teach and preach false doctrine and yet claim to know Jesus Christ make up the false church.

November 7, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative's posts remind me again and again why I stopped believing and never looked back.

November 7, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
conservative said...

You never believed and I nor anyone else caused your unbelief. You are solely responsible for your unbelief.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish , neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and NO man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.I and my Father are one.John 10:27-30

November 7, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Conservative, this is actually what those verses say:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV)

Nowhere in it do I see the word homosexual.

November 7, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
Imbourgeois said...

GaussianInteger, I don't disagree that spying has been going on as long as it's been possible. But, would you not agree that this guy has carried it way further and carried the Patriot Act to whole new levels, and damaged us more for it?

I never thought I would say this, but Hillary may be an improvement over this guy. At least we didn't suffer all the foreign and domestic problems we have with him. He has divided this country like none before him. I know, I know, the division is the fault of all the opponents he's created.

November 7, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I propose a moratorium on all religions posts. Can I get an Amen!

November 7, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

WWWTW says "He should admit that he was wrong, not that he lied." You can type that with a straight face, WWWTW? Really?

November 7, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger:

We did not have the English word homosexual until the the 1800s. The word Homosexual denotes the actions and behavior of those who have sex with those of the same sex. The original Scriptures were not written in English. The Russian word for illicit sex between two of the same sex is not the word Homosexual but conveys the meaning of that forbidden behavior to those of that language.

The New American Standard is a more literal translation:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.1 Corinthians 6:9-10

November 7, 2013 at 3:41 p.m.
jesse said...

Looks like MarkB is con man Light!

Mark i'm glad you found a belief system that gives you comfort! I respect that! HOW ABOUT returning the favor!!

November 7, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

My, you religious humanoids are an interesting bunch.

In much of Western culture:

Two men arm in arm, “Hello, this is my husband.” “That’s wonderful.”

A man with his arm around two women, “Hello, these are my wives.” “ARREST THAT MAN!”

In much of Middle Eastern culture:

A man with his arm around two women, “Hello, these are my wives.” “That’s wonderful.”

Two men arm in arm, “Hello, this is my husband.” “ARREST THAT MAN!”

Both beliefs are considered correct and infallible, and both reinforced in their respective holy books. Hmm....

Remember kids, "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings.” ~not sure who said it, but it’s a damn good quote.

Umm PlainTruth,

I understand the reasoning behind your desired moratorium but the subject of Clay's cartoon today is entirely religious in nature.

November 7, 2013 at 4:15 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You never believed and I nor anyone else caused your unbelief. You are solely responsible for unbelief.

You are probably correct on the case of unbelief. I probably never believed. Which is why I am free to avoid people like you. I can't think of anyone more effective at scaring away anyone who might be sitting on the fence. If you are the typical "TROO CHRISTIAN" (TM) most people would not want anything to do with Christians or the church.

November 7, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.
conservative said...

You are correct, most people do not want anything to do with Christians or the church. It has always been that way and will continue to be so.

Jesus, who was God in the flesh said:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14

November 7, 2013 at 4:41 p.m.
fairmon said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world said...

If only hypocrisy were confined to religious believers!

True believers are not hypocrites but those self appointed and self anointed to judge and admonish others are the hypocrites. I don't pretend to be sympathetic and all caring and "fighting for" those that blew it and now demand being provided for by others.

People saying the government has an obligation to provide for the people means nothing more than telling another citizen they are obligated to "share their success" regardless of sacrifice and risk to achieve it. They mask their greed with pseudo sympathy for the less fortunate with the knowledge some may come their way.

Charity is willingly giving to a worthy cause not that which is confiscated and disseminated indiscriminately with an ulterior motive of being liked, recognized and applauded not to mention voted for.

American people will help those trying to provide for themselves and do so willingly as often proven. Some, like me, if you are a drunken, drugged, lying, cheat will without sympathy or feelings watch you collapse, die and make the world a better place.

November 7, 2013 at 4:42 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

There is no widespread canceling of insurance policies by the insurers themselves AGAINST the will of those who have current policies. 5% of policies that were junk to start with, are not being allowed grandfather status, and they shouldn't be.

Yes there is “widespread canceling of insurance policies by the insurers themselves AGAINST the will of those who have current policies” and they were promised otherwise and their number doesn’t alter that promise.

The 30 odd percent of those who have purchased individual policies, who want to keep them long term, will be grandfathered, just like the President promised.

**That’s not what he promised ... “If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period.”

November 7, 2013 at 4:43 p.m.
tbs1015 said...

does it not bother you to know that you scare people away from Christianity conservative? Christ gave us one charge before leaving this earth and that was to make disciples of all nations and all people. Every person on this earth is God's child. Homosexual or not. You are the reason why the religion can't grow conservative. YOU. not homosexuals, not liberals, not Muslims, not anyone else you blame it on. Christ condemned people because of their past actions. Rather he loved prostitutes, and tax collectors. You are the one who needs Christ at this moment conservative. Not everyone else

November 7, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more extreme acts against one's sovereign or nation. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor. We are a nation of laws, are we not? If found guilty of the charge, proper punishment is called for. There are republicans running for office as we speak that are calling for the arrest of anyone caught performing any sexual act other than their preferred position.

This seems to be a favorite subject for you in that you want to criminalize political policy differences. If someone differs with the majority (mob) opinion they should be arrested, tried in show trials, and of course executed because as everyone in the majority (mob) knows they were known guilty before hand. Maybe those that oppose you will cut out the middleman, thus saving effort and cost, and go straight to the proper conclusion wherever they encounter those of your type... turn about is fair play ... Right?

November 7, 2013 at 4:55 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

anniebelle said...

Last week, Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli petitioned a federal court to reconsider its ruling on the state’s anti-sodomy law, asking the judges of the 4th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals to reinstate a ban on consensual anal and oral sex for both gay and straight people.


From the Washington Post:

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has challenged a recent court ruling finding Virginia’s anti-sodomy law unconstitutional.

A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit ruled on March 12 that Virginia’s “Crimes Against Nature” statute, which banned oral and anal sex, violates the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

One judge dissented, agreeing with a lower court that the Supreme Court’s ruling in Lawrence v. Texas on sodomy laws applied only to consenting adults. The case in question involved a teenage girl and a 47-year-old man, William Scott MacDonald, who was convicted of soliciting a minor to commit a felony.

A petition was filed on Cuccinelli’s behalf asking for the full 15-judge court to reconsider the panel’s decision. LGBT advocates have expressed disappointment, saying the law is unconstitutional and anti-gay.

“This case is not about sexual orientation, but using current law to protect a 17 year-old girl from a 47 year-old sexual predator,” Cuccinelli spokeswoman Caroline Gibson said in a statement. “We agree with the dissenting opinion that the petitioner was not entitled to federal habeas corpus relief and the full court should have the opportunity to decide this matter. The attorney general is committed to protecting Virginia’s children from predators who attempt to exploit them and rob them of their childhood.”

Cuccinelli agrees with the dissenting judge, Albert Diaz, who was appointed to the 4th Circuit by President Obama in 2009, who argued for deference to the Virginia Court of Appeals.

You Fleabaggers are always misrepresenting (lying about?) the details of issues.I wonder why the court didn’t just strike down the part of the law that would deal with consenting adults?

November 7, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
conservative said...

tbs:

There are a plethora of reasons/excuses that people come up with to reject Jesus Christ. However their unbelief is their sole responsibility and not one of their excuses will be accepted by Jesus Christ when they stand before Him in judgment.

The first man Adam blamed his wife for his sin and God did not accept his attempt to blame her. You will not be the exception and that is the truth.

Please tell me how you would convey to a Homosexual that he will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Just type the words for me that you feel a Homosexual would believe, repent of the sin and become a Christian. Why have you not already warned them?

Please don't go silent on me.

November 7, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
limric said...

The Gaussian Integer (great handle by the way) asked me, ”Limric, are you versed in compact manifolds”?

Versed? No, not in a Chomological sense. Topologically? Enough to make me dangerous – or a menace.

November 7, 2013 at 5:25 p.m.
tbs1015 said...

It has nothing to do with words my friend, it has everything to do with love. Simply showing love to other people. Not condemning them

November 7, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.
conservative said...

You have not given your message of the wrong of Homosexuality.

Do you refuse to use Scripture such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 because it is condemning and does not suit your idea of love?

Again type your idea of love to show the homosexual his error, an error that has everlasting consequences unless he repents.

November 7, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Sub-standard policies are most definitely being canceled against the will of those who have them, and that's because they are junk policies. They provide very little in the way of benefits, or are canceled by the insurance companies the minute a claim is filed.


By Daniel Greenfield

Obama is so honest that even when he lies… it’s only to be honest. Sure Obama lied to Americans… but it was for their own good. He was only lying to Americans in order to keep his promise to them.

(Obama adviser) Dan Pfeiffer’s crazy spin on Obama’s now infamous “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan” lie may be more addled than Orwellian.

Plugging in the now familiar claim that the cancelled plans were somehow “substandard”, Dan Pfeiffer tries to argue that Obama had to choose between two betrayals of the American people. Either he had to lie to them about their coverage or let them keep their “substandard” plans.

On ABC’s This Week, Obama adviser Dan Pfeiffer argued, if Obama were to allow people “to have those plans be downgraded, or insurance companies to keep selling barebones plans… he’d be violating even more important promise to the American people, that everyone would have a guarantee to access of quality affordable health insurance.” So if Obama had allowed people to keep their health plans, after promising them that they could, he would be violating another promise that he made to them.

This is like a car salesman who overcharges you and then tells you that he did it to keep his promise to you about including floor mats. It’s somewhere between disgusting and laughable.

It’s not even an argument that deserves to be taken seriously.

The ObamaCare plans with their high premiums and deductibles and small networks don’t guarantee access to quality affordable health insurance. But even if they did, Pfeiffer’s argument that one lie justifies another, that Americans can be tricked by lying about being able to keep their plans in order to force them into the plans that are good for them are at the heart of everything wrong with the mindset of liberalism.


Millions? Perhaps, but the fact is the percentage of those who fall into that category is around 5% of the population.

I don’t remember him mentioning numbers or percentages when he said .....“If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period.”

November 7, 2013 at 6:09 p.m.
fairmon said...

The commander in chief standing in front of his troops says "all of you that want to and plan on keeping the insurance and doctor you have now please step forward" WHOA... Not so fast you third on the back row and the third on the right side. Somebody has to help pay for those that won't be paying...you are my volunteers. I know what you were told when recruited, that was then, this is now and things have changed. I know they have changed, I changed them.

November 7, 2013 at 7:14 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

All the canceled plan are NOT substandard, barebones policies. That's just BOGUS.

November 7, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.
conservative said...

A sign I would like to see on the front lawn of FALSE churches:

"God won't change so we change what God says about Homosexuality"

November 7, 2013 at 7:36 p.m.
alprova said...

all you folks whining about the President lying are in no personal position to say with any certainty that he lied.

You would have to be very privy to the goings on in his Administration, in order to judge him accordingly.

But guess what? What if he has lied? What do you think you're going to do about it, but whine incessantly?

He'll never run for political office, so you'll never get to vote against him again.

You're not going to change the course of ObamaCare except on a very personal level, which I happen to believe that not one of you even needs to personally seek a new insurance policy, so what happens with ObamaCare is not going to personally affect your lives for one second over the next three years.

And in three years, you'll have someone else to pick on, unless that is, a candidate miraculously emerges that can actually beat Hillary.

Good luck with that!!

November 7, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.
alprova said...

Facyspacy wrote: "There is 17 trillion tied up in people's retirement plans. Our national debt is 17 trillion. Now the government wants to control that as well allowing Americans to invest in US debt. Have you checked your SS returns lately? It is a negative return."

Really Facyspacy? An article from WND?

This has been sooooo debunked.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/12/19/barack-obama-and-the-federal-government-are-not-taking-your-401k/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505146_162-38740927/obama-wants-to-steal-your-401k-and-why-you-should-be-glad/

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/12/no-government-401k-takeover/

November 7, 2013 at 8:33 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, I fear your brain is not sufficiently oxygenated.

November 7, 2013 at 8:43 p.m.
alprova said...

That Sir is not one medical malady that I suffer. I've even had the CAT scans, the ultrasounds, and the MRI's to prove it. I have the cholesterol levels of an athlete

Believe it or not.

November 7, 2013 at 8:46 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Again type your idea of love to show the homosexual his error, an error that has everlasting consequences unless he repents."

Your mistake and your lacking as a Christian, is in your belief that it is your duty to bring to anyone's attention their sins.

You should be much more worried about your own.

Your messages are not going to draw people to Christ. They will turn people away from him, and that's something you're going to answer for directly to him when you pass on from this life.

It's about your beddie bye time.

Sweet dreams you insufferable moron.

November 7, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Conservative, you keep going back to first Corinthians. First, there is a debate among religious historians on whether or not homosexuals were even mentioned by Paul. Second (if Paul did in fact mean homosexual when he says "abusers of themselves with mankind"), he also mentions drinkers, adulterers, and extortioners. I haven't heard you once mention them. How convenient to use a debated portion of a verse to damn someone to hell (and I am pretty sure the Bible makes mention of how that is not Christlike).

November 7, 2013 at 8:57 p.m.

None was more eloquent on the topic of religious hypocrisy than Jesus. No proof-texting can protect such a person from these signs of impending woe:

“Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees … preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others … The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves …

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”

November 7, 2013 at 9:34 p.m.
volsam said...

Any church who allows people who are willfully living in sin whether it's homosexuals or adulterers or murderers is not a house of God. The church MUST remain pure or everything they believe in is in vein.To call a church homophobes is border line blasphemy.We as Christians aren't commissioned to judge,but the church is.If you think about what homosexuality does to the nuclear family and the damage it does to society in general is an abomination.When Jesus forgave the prostitute in the gospels he tells her when he saves her life to go and sin no more.If you don;t believe homosexuality is sin and your a christian I urge you to actually read the Bible a little more.

November 7, 2013 at 10:02 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

And just what damage does homosexuality do, volsam? I'd like this documented here. Also want to know how "banning" it or condemning it helps reverse this so called damage.

November 8, 2013 at 6:51 a.m.
chet123 said...

HA HA HA...LISTEN TO THE EXPERT ON GOD...OHHH WHAT WRONG WITH THE WORLD.........

THIS RIGHT-WING NUT CANT SEE THERE'S A LOG IN HIS EYE.........IT CALLED PROTECTING THE RICH AND GREEDY.....OH YEAH...GREED IS A SIN......OH I FORGOT .......YOU CHERRY PICK HA HA HA!

December 16, 2013 at 5:27 p.m.
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