published Tuesday, November 19th, 2013

Extending benefits tests city powers

By David Tulis

Before the City Council stands a proposal that homosexuals and their sympathizers insist is simply about equal pay for equal work. Taxpayers should be glad to award spousal benefits to employee's gay partners; doing so will improve the quality of the work force and be fair to gays, whom otherwise are disallowed from receiving benefits as might husband and wife.

But the proposal is a novelty. Coming in a state that has passed a constitutional amendment recognizing marriage, the Chattanooga gay benefits ordinance brings council members not into an egalitarian port, but against the hazards of reef and cliff.

The plan brings the municipal corporation into a troubling position, that of enabler and principal in sexual unions. The ordinance envisions the city's becoming the active partner in a three-way legal partnership. The city proffers an affidavit of domestic partnership that "creates a domestic partnership when signed by the city employee and the domestic partner," the ordinance says. Without the document and signatures, there is no union, gay or otherwise. But with the city's enabling authority, a civil union -- poof! -- is brought into being. Patrick works in the motor pool, and partner Trevor joins the taxpayer dole as an insured.

Does a municipal corporation such as Chattanooga enjoy such creative authority? Short answer: No.

Chattanooga operates upon the authority granted by its creator, the General Assembly. Its constitution is its charter, the definer of its powers, the limiter of its council members' ambitions. No Tennessee city has a privilege or immunity that it can evoke against either the federal or the state government. Its powers are readily altered by the state. If a city exercises a power and there's any reasonable doubt it has such power, courts will resolve against the city and its flexing of that stolen muscle. Acts by a city beyond its power are, simply, void. Courts since the 1880s have ruled that municipal powers are to be strictly construed. The legislature's mandate for Chattanooga grants city leaders no means to create civil unions or domestic partnerships as a legal category.

Even if it did, city attorney Wade Hinton's ingenuity seems thwarted by another consideration, one overshadowing the River City debate. Tennessee is a pro-marriage state, its people having passed a marriage protection amendment in 2006. The people and their representatives intend to protect marriage, whether from attack by flank (gay marriage) or from beneath (domestic partnerships). An ordinance that defies the spirit of the law as much as the letter of it may be declared unconstitutional.

Finally, taxpayers are best served when a city acts to serve a public purpose, not a private one. The charter calls for such a perspective. Benefits to nonmarried intimates of city staffers are a form of private inurement. The city charter takes an interest in public morality and established order -- it ordains suppression of disorderly houses, for example. It doesn't allow for the city to define marriage downward by ignoring it.

David Tulis hosts, a show on Copperhead 1240 AM that covers local economy and free markets.

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fairmon said...

Taxpayers have placed trust in the mayor and council to fulfill their fiduciary responsibility as stewards of tax money. The issue of benefits to partners and other dependents need to be reviewed for appropriateness. Adjust wages or salary appropriately to enable the employee to pay the group rate for a spouse and children. The city should be moving aggressively toward defined benefits that enable predictable cost. It is not a moral issue as some insist but a cost issue. To say it is "only" 1% more of a budget that is already too high is ludicrous. The council needs to be aware of current future unpaid liabilities and refrain from increasing that debt and from passing it on to future councils.

There is no position in the city or any individual with knowledge, skill or ability that cannot be replaced therefore the to attract and hold premise does not apply.

November 19, 2013 at 10:43 a.m.
una61 said...

It's not about benefits. Live-in lovers of unmarried city employees can obtain benefits from their employer or from the Affordable Care act.

November 19, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.

These benefits just passed are unlawful, rogue, and seemingly that which scofflaws would pass. This political action follows the example given by the Obama administration (disregarding established laws and utilizing tyranny to force conditions which have not been legislated). These benefits are illegal in every sense of the word.


"(b) The legal union in matrimony of only one (1) man and one (1) woman shall be the only recognized marriage in this state. (c) Any policy, law or judicial interpretation that purports to define marriage as anything other than the historical institution and legal contract between one (1) man and one (1) woman is contrary to the public policy of Tennessee"; Tenn. Code Ann. ' 36 3 113

Too many Liberal Democrats are Scofflaws and utilizes sleazy deception and other evil tactics to push their immoral lifestyles onto society. It may be we now see Chattanooga City Government following this example of the Obama administration.


November 19, 2013 at 10:39 p.m.

Following from: The National Institute of Health:

When a high-significant (statistically) number of homosexual individuals think up and engage in the below described behavior...well, I for one do not want my tax dollars going to support such.

Felching among men who engage in barebacking (unprotected anal sex). Authors Klein H. Journal

Arch Sex Behav. 2012 Apr;41(2):377-84. doi: 10.1007/s10508-011-9770-0. Epub 2011 May 14. Affiliation

Kensington Research Institute, 401 Schuyler Road, Silver Spring, MD 20910, USA. Abstract

Felching (sucking or eating semen out of someone's anus) is a sexual behavior about which virtually nothing has been written in the scholarly literature, despite the fact that it appears to be a not-uncommon practice among certain subpopulations of men who have sex with men (MSM). This study examined three broad research questions: (1) How common is felching? (2) How does a desire for felching relate to other HIV risk practices and risk behavior preferences? (3) What factors are associated with the desire to engage in felching? The data were from a content analysis study of one of the largest Internet websites specifically targeting MSM looking for partners for unprotected sex. A total of 1,316 profiles on the site were analyzed and selected randomly based on users' ZIP codes. Felching was mentioned as a sought-after practice in approximately one-sixth of the men's profiles. Men who wanted to find felching partners were significantly more likely than those not searching for felching partners to seek other types of risky sex, including unprotected oral and unprotected anal sex, and various enhanced risk preferences (e.g., having sex while high, multiple-partner sex, unwillingness to withdraw the penis prior to internal ejaculation). Multivariate analysis revealed several factors that were related to an interest in identifying partners online for felching, including race/ethnicity, indifference to sex partners' HIV serostatus, several sensation-seeking measures (e.g., wanting "wild" or "uninhibited" sex, self-identification as a "bug chaser"), and eroticizing ejaculatory fluids.

November 19, 2013 at 10:40 p.m.
aae1049 said...

Help CGAT get 4,500 Signatures to Let the voters decide if they wish to fund non-employees health insurance benefits for VBF's of city employees.

The city of Chattanooga currently spends $35 million annually on medical cost funded by the taxpayers. Their costs have increased over $10 million dollars in just 2 short years.

Join us in collecting enough signatures to Let the Voters Decide.


November 21, 2013 at 12:11 a.m.
conservative said...

Great cost to treat AIDS so get the Chattanooga taxpayer to foot the bill.

November 21, 2013 at 6:47 p.m.

There are probably thousands of people in Tennessee who consider aae1049 a 'Shinning Star'!

Thank You aae1049...Royalty!

November 26, 2013 at 12:28 a.m.
N2work said...

ORRMEANSLIGHT you are definately the "Squeaky wheel begging to be greased!" Come out, Come out whereever you are. It gets dark in the closest dude you sick "Ftard"

November 27, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.
Carl said...

Wonderful, these attitudes will continue to promote the image of ignorant, backward southerners. You are not true Christians but weak, scared hate mongers.

December 4, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.
CitizenVoter said...

I am intrigued by the responses my fellow republicans have given in response to this ordinance. The continued insistence on focusing on the homosexual portion of this ordinance seems to ignore that 90% of the benefits will be extended to heterosexual domestic partnerships. One out of ten people are homosexual so in focusing on 10% of the people that will get benefits you are neglecting the 90% of heterosexual couples and that to me seems unfair to those heterosexual couples.

I'm seeing a lot of theological reasons for this ordinance to be defeated; less we forget we live in a nation where the powers of government are separate from any dogma or theology. I'm seeing graphic examples of homosexual behavior on this page; examples which ignore the ability of heterosexual couples to engage in even more perverse and outlandish sexual behavior. "Two dogs in a bathtub" immediately comes to mind (it is so disgusting that I will not elaborate on the details of this position) and this is a sexual position exclusively only available to heterosexual couples. Let us not forget that heterosexual sex is also the root cause of every single abortion ever performed in this country; and the sex that produces those aborted children is just as likely to spread an STD as homosexual sex is.

This bill does not create a new definition of marriage nor does it counteract any part of existing law. Chattanooga has simply said that if two people, gay or straight, are living together in a committed relationship that those two people should have access to benefits otherwise accorded only to married couples. Marriage was defended and defined by the constitutional amendment; now that an ordinance has been passed, which clearly adheres to the requirement of the separation of church and state a predictable backlash has occurred from those that wish to ignore the first amendment to the United States Constitution. I for one am very happy that this ordinance will go to a vote; and after it is approved those that wish to ignore the Constitution will be forced to be silent by the will of We The People.

I would also add that I am shocked and dismayed at my fellow republicans for attempting to remove from law a highly effective way to keep people out of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) insurance exchanges. Under this ordinance the employees will be responsible for paying the health premiums while under the ACA we the taxpaying citizens will be responsible for a higher premium.

I openly invite anyone to offer a response without reference to theology or dogma, without reference to sexual acts that they may find abhorrent while being capable of being guilty of much worse, and without insulting or otherwise demeaning attacks on my character. In other words I invite you to engage in a polite, logical, and orderly debate about this subject without appealing to people's emotions and otherwise using tactics similar to Moms Demand Action in their quest for gun control.

December 7, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.

CitizenVoter...With the love of Jesus Christ of Nazareth I offer to You the following documented facts regarding homosexual behavioral consequences. I vehemently dispute Your assertions, but not in a condescending manner. kwo

Exhibit #1...A Sovereign Nation Has the Right to Reward Individuals Within Unions (Marriages) Who Have the Greatest Expectation to Procreate. [Nations Need Taxpayers]. A Sovereign Nation Has the Right to Deny Reward (Insurance/Tax Write-Offs/Death Benefits to Spouses, etc.)to Individual Unions Which do Not Have the Expectation to Procreate. Also, A Sovereign Nation Has the Right to Discourage Supporting Individuals Who Cost Their Innocent Tax Payers Over $20,000,000,000 [Twenty Billion Dollars] Per Year. The Average Cost to Treat One Case of HIV/AIDS is Over $400,000 [Four Hundred Thousand Dollars Per Lifetime. (Source: Center for Disease Control {CDC} HIV Surveillance Report 2009, Vol 21). {This cost is much greater in 2013} So, My Question to You: "Shall We Change The Definition of Husband to Mean Woman, Or, The Definition of Wife to Mean Man? Shall We Do This Even Though These Unions Go Against The Wisdom and Needs of a Sovereign United States of America? This Chosen Lifestyle is Not to be Forced Upon a Sovereign Nation.

Ken Orr

December 7, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.

Exhibit #2...So Many Good People, In The Community, and, Here Online, Have Asked Me To Once Again Reveal My Beginning of Many Secular Reasons To Forbid Same-Sex (homosexual)Individuals From Legally Labeling Their Unions As Marriage {In The Traditional Sense}. Ordinarily I Do Not Care To Re-post Comments. Yet, For Those of You Who Have Requested, I Will Once Again Provide The First of Many Non-Religious Reasons: ARTICLE: Same-sex union not an inaliable right: Response: Just One Secular Reason From The Center For Disease Control {CDC): That Reason: Health Issues, Including The Cost to Innocent Tax Payer Citizens Who Do Not Choose The Homosexual Lifestyle. Men Having Sex With Men Accounts For Approximately Three-Quaters of HIV/AIDS Diagnoses. The Cases of HIV diagnoses among Men Having Sex With Men is more than 44 times that of Heterosexual men. According to one study published by the CDC in 2010, one in five Men Having Sex With Men in the 21 cities surveyed has HIV and almost half are unaware of their status. The federal budget request for fiscal year 2011 included a total of $20.4 billion for domestic HIV and AIDS, a 4% increase from the fiscal year 2010 funding, which totaled $19.6 billion. Of this, 69 percent is for treatment, 13 percent for cash and housing assistance, and 4 percent for prevention. Lifestyle Choice. I Am Commanded by My Lord, God, and, Saviour, Jesus Christ, to Love Homosexual Individuals With The Love of God...And I Do! (For The Record).

Kindest Regards, Ken Orr

December 7, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.

Exhibit #3...While CDC estimates that ONLY 4% of men in the United States are Men Having Sex With Men, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among Men Having Sex With Men in the United States is MORE THAN 44 (fourty-four) TIMES that of other men (range: 522 –989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men). CREDIT: CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL [CDC] (CDC.GOV URL) Anyone Can Choose To Leave This Lifestyle Before They Become A Part of These Statistics! (I Speak This With The Love of Christ Jesus).......Ken Orr The federal budget request for fiscal year (FY) 2011 includes a total of $20.4 BILLION DOLLARS for domestic HIV and AIDS, a 4% increase from the FY 2010 funding, which totaled $19.6 BILLION DOLLARS.34 Federal funding for AIDS programs falls into five basic categories: care and treatment, financial and housing assistance, prevention, research, and global spending (most of which goes out through the US PEPFAR program). Of these five budgets, care spending is by far the largest - just over half of the FY 2010 budget was for care and treatment programs. THE MAJORITY of AIDS CARE FUNDING goes out through the federal MEDICARE and MEDICAID PROGRAMS for people who do not have adequate private health insurance. (Innocent American Tax Payers Forced to Pay For Those Who Choose This Lifestyle of Homosexual Behavior). I Do Not Blame Innocent Victims Such As Children and Blood Transfusion Patients. credit: Avert.Org International HIV & AIDS charity.

Ken Orr

December 7, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.

Ehibit#4...Homosexual Individuals Choose a Preference of Sexual Behavior Which Places Themselves In The Dreaded Highest Category of HIV/AIDS (Per Capita).Infected Humans! [Center For Disease Control Statistic]

The Most Loathsome of All Categories of Humans Attracted to Children Is The Homosexual Population: "The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls." [(Blanchard et al.,1999]

December 7, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.

Exhibit #5...And Women! Listen Up! Lesbians-Be advised that in the state of Tennessee Women make up approximately 24% of AIDS Diagnosis. (23.7 actual percentage). Birth Control pills, Morning After pills, Slaughter House Abortions so You can party at Da' Club ain't no powerful liberal statement you're making. It's no great surprise or wonder. There are an estimated (low) 60,000 Women [U.S.A.] who act? in hard-core pornography videos. These numbers sky rocket when we only talk about lewd still photographs. Now, prostitution, tricky escort services, etc. Don't even try to estimate this astronomical number of Women who agree to be objects.

December 7, 2013 at 8:01 p.m.

Exhibit # finis!...The Greek and Hebrew text may not be able to be processed on this site {most sites anywhere do not possess the capability). But, use Your initiative and research the translations. kwo

���ִ���ָּׁ��� <<Do You know what this is? It is the word Wife written in the Hebrew of the Holy Bible. It means: 'ishshah = ish•shä' = 1) woman, wife, female a) woman (opposite of man) b) wife (woman married to a man) c) female (of animals) d) each, every (pronoun) Hey, it's a 'feminine noun'.

Now for 'HUSBAND':....... ���ִ������ׁ, = 'iysh, = 1) man a) man, male (in contrast to woman, female) b) husband c) human being, person (in contrast to God) d) servant e) mankind f) champion g) great man 2) whosoever 3) each (adjective) Hey, it's a masculine noun. Any questions? kwo

gynē <<Do You know what this is? It is the word Wife written in the Greek language of the Holy Bible. It means: 1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow 2) a wife 3) of a betrothed womand Hey, it's a 'feminine noun'.

Now for 'HUSBAND':

anēr = 1) with reference to sex (gender) a) of a male b) of a husband c) of a betrothed or future husband 2) with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy 3) any male 4) used generically of a group of both men and women (as in 'mankind', etc.)

Hey, it's a masculine noun. Any questions? kwo

December 7, 2013 at 8:13 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...

Citizenvoter you are amazing! Thank everyone for the positive assistance and comments on this article for benefits that pertain not only just to same sex benefits but for non married couples as well. Certain people that are commenting to this article don't realize that this also pertains to people that are not married. If two people are not married and have children together they should be allowed to live longer and have Healthy lives for their children regardless if they are married. Same sex couples are just the same as any other relationship. I know how to keep church and state separate unlike some people that are speaking in this article. You want to sit and talk about your tax dollars, you do not even pay city taxes because you don't live in the city... you live in Ooltewah! You shouldn't even comment on this situation because you have no bearing in this conversation! You are a hypocrite and do not even realize half of what you're saying is totally toward your own ignorance and you're trying to state facts from other Perspectives which you know nothing about. But if you want to Slanderize everyone different than yourselves. Think about this..the gays have paid for your health care benefits for your children the gays have paid to get your family or someone you you may could know assistance in Some way shape form or fashion and also have paid to make sure that you have the same healthy life That you should deserve. We are all equal regardless and we should all be treated as such. We could be sitting right beside you in church, we could be fixing your vehicle, we can even be fixing your food. Before you start spouting off ,Your actions have consequences! Human beings are human beings and we all deserve to live healthy. People that like to stereotype one person or another Are doing nothing but showing their closed minded ignorance. What a person does in their bedroom is no Importance when it comes to the health and happiness of any one or two human beings regardless.. A gay couple who has been in a committed relationship for over 20 years deserves the same rights as a straight couple that has been in a relationship over 20 years and if neither are married who actually deserves to have the benefits? I think they both should have the benefits because both couples have paid taxes for that 20 years, it has no bearing on whether a person is gay or not gay this is only relevant to non married couples who should have the option to pay whomever they decide on the insurance. Before you turn this into an all out hate rant look at the facts! Not your Statistics that benefit your so called opinion! If you want to try to blame homosexuality for the Start of the HIV/AIDS virus..Try actually reading before speaking and you will see that that is not where the original virus originated from!! Please go back to reading your Bible and managing your properties and leave people alone that you have absolutely no idea about what you're discussing!

December 7, 2013 at 9:31 p.m.
joetheplumber said...

Are you really that stupud? " Taxpayers should be glad to award spousal benefits to employee's gay partners" and "doing so will improve the quality of the work force". Why would you think that I would want to pay more taxes and fund more benifits? Isn't that why you guys elected the current President, freebies? The Affordable Health Care Act will solve this issue so before we jump in there and start breaking the bank lets see what President Wonderful has already planned. There is no reason to get ourselves painted in a corner so quick.

One queer councilman was elected and the first act is to start a new policy that will cost taxpayers millions of dollars in a few short years.

December 8, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.
CitizenVoter said...


Rebuttal of Exhibit 1: A sovereign nation has the right to legislate according to the will of the majority as long as minority rights are preserved. In our sovereign nation the majority of citizens support same sex marriage as evidenced by Gallop polls and various social media statistics. With that being said it would seem that the will of We The People, in this our sovereign nation which we have fought and died to protect, is in direct opposition to your viewpoint. This makes you the minority and as such your viewpoint, were it to be applied at a national level, would be more akin to a fascist tyranny of the minority rather than a true representation of the Founders intent for our great Republic.

Rebuttal of Exhibit 2: There can be no disputing that HIV/AIDS impacts all of humanity gay or straight. The virus that causes this disease does not discriminate and can infect any person regardless of age, gender, race, nationality, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, or any other limiting factor. In this country the infection rate is high among homosexuals but let us not forget that across the world HIV/AIDS infects far more heterosexual people than homosexual people as evidenced by the World Health Organization and The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. I would think that it is highly illogical to assert that a group with a leading infection rate here represents the world as a whole. One might infer from your position that you have the belief that any group primarily afflicted by a disease is somehow undeserving of care so I would ask you if you feel that African Americans should not be entitled to treatment for heart disease since they are at a greater risk than any other group in our country and tend to have a higher incident of heart disease for it.

Rebuttal to exhibit 3: Let us not also forget that far more financial resources are directed to treat obesity in America than HIV/AIDS consumes. One third of adults in America are obese and $147 billion dollars were spent treating this condition. (per the CDC website) People chose to put food in their mouth when they are obese; sexuality has been shown to be a product of biology (as it exists across the animal kingdom and not just in Humanity) so should the obese be denied coverage for their choice? Scientific research, while not able to pinpoint an exact cause, clearly shows that sexual orientation is rooted in biological/environmental factors and that choice is not a factor in most people's sexuality.

December 8, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...

Rebuttal to Exhibit 4: Various studies conducted by organizations have repeatedly shown that gay men are not any more likely to molest children than heterosexual men.

"The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children" - Gregrory M. Herek professor of psychology at UC Davis.

Even the Southern Poverty Law Center's own website supports the viewpoint that gay people are not responsible for the acts you accuse them of. In fact a professional in the mental health field will tell you that pedophiles are repulsed by adults of either sex and will molest children of any sex.

Exhibit 5 is irrelevant to this discussion and is nothing more than an example of trying to provoke an emotional response to compensate for a lack of science to support your position so I see no need to offer rebuttal.

In closing I would remind you of a few things you may have pushed out of your heart to make room for the hate which resides in it.

Mathew 7:1 (NIV) Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of you own eye, and then you will clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye.

I would suggest the plank in your eye is the outright blasphemy against God's word that you are committing when you sit in judgment of anyone despite being specifically told by Christ not to do so.

Mathew 22:1 Render unto Caeser that which is Caesars. Let us not forget that Christ himself said "My kingdom is not of this world" and that the laws of man should be obeyed. The majority of our nation supports some sort of same sex unions so to ignore that majority is to ignore another teaching of Christ.

December 8, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...


I would also invite you to respond to the original rebuttal I made of your post; I didn't see you actually address all of my points and in a moderated debate you would have be sanctioned points by the moderator for it.


December 8, 2013 at 1:31 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You'll be waiting til the cows come home, Citizen. Ken Orr posts the same garbage all the time here.

December 8, 2013 at 2:25 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...


December 8, 2013 at 2:58 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...

Sounds to me like ken needs to find a hobby and quit picking on people because all I see thatthat he wants to do is sit behind a computer screen and mouth off... you want to get on here and call people queers and faggots and everything else well... those breeders and mouth breathers need to realize that just pushes gays to fight harder. Gays Have had to fight their entire lives against ignorance and self deluted And simple minded idiocy. People are afraid of what they do not understand. This all started with the African Americans Then they started on The Spanish community When does it stop. When does the ignorance and the hate stop? It sounds to me like a lot of these people that are spouting off about things they do not understand need to take matters into their own hands Revolving around your own home wife and home atmosphere before they take things outside Their doorstep. You raise children to hate in? I would love to know how you would feel if the tables were turned? Do you not realize there is a lot more to the downside of heterosexuality then there is to homosexuality. Look at the children every day that people keep having that they cannot afford to feed, look at the health care that these children actually don't recieve and that people will not take these children to the doctor because they can't afford to. All you want to do is get on here and oppose things that you do not understand. We all pay taxes why the heck shouldn't we all receive the same benefits? Just because some people are afraid to come out of the closet and alot are afraid of what they don't understand does not mean that everyone should have to suffer. It's sad to know that some people may have children out there that are afraid to come and actually talk to their parents that might be gay because of ignorant people like this!

December 8, 2013 at 3 p.m.


Please give me some more time. I worked all night last night, of course, needed at least 8 hrs. sleep today, must get COFFEE and breakfast, shower, shave, etc., etc., etc. I have five children and nine grandchildren with whom I spend time, etc., etc., etc.

I Love all people, even You, and mean no harm to anyone AT ALL...PERIOD! kwo

December 8, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.


Why do You always say things like that about me? You always do. I wish You wouldn't say things like that about me. Sometimes lkeithlu, i think You must hate me, and You don't even know me. You know You should get to know someone before You go saying "You will be waiting until the cows come home", or whatever You said (i'm not even going to go back to see what You said)before he responds. You know I just about always respond to stuff people say. WHY DON'T YOU RESPOND TO SOMEBODY? Ken

December 8, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...


I must admit I am confused by your response. If you had the time to spout out those 5 very long paragraphs why didn't you just take that time to have an actual debate rather than invest it in so much deflection?

Just getting up? I think you missed church Mr!

Citizen ps Ken...I would wager you are guilty of exactly what you just accused that poster of. Just how many homosexuals do you know and maintain social relationships with?

December 8, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.

Oh, by the way Wheresmyrights...regarding Your statement to me>>You wrote: "Before you start spouting off ,Your actions have consequences!": Take heed to this:...If You want to talk about consequences, well, The Holy Spirit Who resides within my being will let You know about consequences! The Lord God of Hosts has spoken:..Isaiah 49:25.."...for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee..."...Matthew 25:40....Jesus said: "..."Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me."

Understand Jesus said He is the Truth. His words are truth. There's more if You want to be provided more Scripture.

Please, Wheresmyrights, use wisdom...drop the 'consequences' lingo and stick to the issues.

Thank You,


December 8, 2013 at 7:45 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...

Ken please read Mathew 7:1

You are criticizing others for not heeding scripture yet here you are blatantly ignoring the teachings of the god you claim to cherish. You are engaging in the same sort of behavior you chastise others for. I am seriously beginning to think that you have no desire to participate in a meaningful discussion and are just trolling this site.

December 8, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ken, what I said is true. You post the same inflammatory garbage here every time. I don't hate you but I would not trust you with my children. Not because you would harm them or molest them, but would fill them with irrational fear and disgust in the name of Jesus.

December 8, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...

Orrmeanslight.....ken.... evidently my way far surpasses someone's that claims he knows the Bible and like citizenvoter says ...yes you may quote scripture but do you really know it? Does its not state in the New Testament if you know and love Jesus in your heart all is forgiven? No Sin is ever greater than another and you are very blasphemous at this point... you are sitting there talking to lkeithlu about how you are being spoken to when you don't even care how you speak told or about others? You reap what you sow! PLEASE BE KIND AND CONSIDERATE TO OTHERS AND THEY WILL "DO UNTO YOU!" HAVE A NICE DAY! Treasure every living person and thing.. for God make each and everyone of us in His image without discrimination.

December 8, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.


Nearly 100% of the Theologians and Pastors I have heard or read believe as You, therefore they are also in great error.

They, as Yourself, believe 'a sin, is a sin, is a sin, is a sin.' NOT!.

Our Lord, God, and Saviour Jesus Christ of Nazareth, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah has spoken. Please read and heed:

John 19:10-11

Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest Thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify Thee, and have power to release Thee? 11 Jesus answered, thou couldest have no power at all against Me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the 'greater sin'.


December 8, 2013 at 9:55 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

James 1:26 ESV

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Read and heed yourself ken. Now we see the truth that Ken here is of the opinion that he knows the word of god, in his own words, better than nearly 100% of theologians and pastors. I suspect the lion of Judah would love to munch on the tasty soul of someone like Ken

God wanted spiritual fruits not religious nuts. Oh and ken the cows have indeed come home and I have yet to hear you respond to me.

December 8, 2013 at 10:06 p.m.


How on God's green earth can You say that? I proclaim that Love is my Salvation! Only Love can conquer hate. Please, lkeithlu, answer me this; Is it wrong/hateful for me to warn fellow human beings of a proven dangerous and deadly lifestyle? Is it wrong for me to not want my loved ones (everyone) to enter into one of the highest suicidal ideation populations on planet earth? Is it wrong for me, who am a Christian believer, to sound the clarion call to those whom i think are facing a horribly painful eternity? Let us Love one another in spirit and in truth (and deed). Please, lkeithlu, don't tell people that i hate them. I don't hate You, or anyone else. ken

December 8, 2013 at 10:12 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...

Ken you have repeatedly ignored me, the word of Jesus Christ, the will of God, and blatant truth in order to preach division and hate. I would not want you around my children either and I certainly would not want anyone to think your view of Christianity is in any way in line with the teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

You can repeat falsehoods and lies Until the end of time but that will never change them into truths nor will deceit and darkness such as you offer ever prevail over the light and love of The Lord Our God. You can ignore me if you wish but to ignore the word of God is something I would suspect you undertake with great danger to your soul.

December 8, 2013 at 10:29 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...

As you ... no one agrees with you, so why do you still insist on doing nothing but showing your true colors and your devious and malicious ways into trying to force everyone to believe including yourself what you know its not true. It sounds to me you are trying to pull certain Bible verses out of what Scripture you know and pull what the two sticks you have read in People magazine to make many believe what you want to believe... you are not doing anyone any good here. Since you need your 8 hours of sleep a night isn't it time for your bedtime? Because evidently you're not thinking correctly. I have said all I need to say. And I refuse to waste anymore of my time on someone like you whos intentions are clear... you are a trash talker and nothing but a so-called conservative hypocrite.. like I said before you need to find a hobby and quit talking about something that you have no clear idea who or what you are affecting. Everyone has heard your opinions over and over and over again.. and evidently there are more than 3 people that are tired of hearing them. So sad.

December 8, 2013 at 10:35 p.m.
CitizenVoter said...

A question for Ken....if a man in his late twenties/early thirties ordered a young boy in a loincloth to spend the night with him would that be an act of a pedophile and/or a sin?

December 8, 2013 at 10:51 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ken, every sex act that you so gleefully describe in disgusting detail can be done (and is done) by married heterosexual couples. If you want to be perceived as honest you need to condemn the acts themselves for all (and enforce it) and promote the safest, which is of course lesbian sex. But your use of STDs and HIV as a reason for homosexuals to be safe rings false: STDs and HIV are a risk for any unprotected sexual behavior. A monogamous couple reduces the risk, gay or straight.

If you don't approve of gay sex, don't have gay sex. If your children are straight, they won't have gay sex. If they are gay, promote safe sex. (If they are gay and related to you they have my sympathy) Stay out of other people's business.

December 9, 2013 at 6:53 a.m.

Now, today, comes Clay Bennet's Cartoon, to me demonstrating a known fact: BABY SOCKS, CHILDREN'S SOCKS, CUB SCOUT SOCKS...You get the, cartoon.

NAMBLA...North American Man/boy Love Association


Now! read for yourself the full text of the true intent of many homosexual beings: In The Library of Congress:

Over and Over again...repeatedly, one reads of these 'so called' homosexual civil unions molesting their own adopted children. Shall we honor such a thing in Hamilton County? Answer me! Shall We?!!!

One of yesterday's headlines from our very own awarded Top Ten Newspapers in The United States of America! Please Read:



December 10, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.
CitizenVoter said...

Hi Ken,

I know it is more comfortable for you to ignore me than respond so I do not expect a reply to this message. I do however want you to read these links below. As you can see heterosexual child prostitution by biological parents takes place quite often.

By the way you are not supporting your position by ignoring me. You are in fact showing how untenable your argument is by now offering some sort of defense of it.

I love how you literally had to look on the other side of the world to find a story to support your bigotry.

December 10, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I remind you, Ken, that equating homosexuality with pedophilia is false. Oh, and dishonest. Lying for Jesus is still lying.

December 10, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Ken did the same response in the Comment Section of today's Bennett cartoon. He posted up a story that in no way substantiated his claims, he just hopes people focus on numbers and not what they truly represent. He has yet to answer my response. He spreads nothing but hate and deceit and never offers a logical retort.

December 10, 2013 at 7:43 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...


December 10, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...


December 10, 2013 at 8:04 p.m.
Wheresmyrights said...

Ken is just upset because because somebody took away his pacifier as a child... Poor little ken never got that Barbie to go with your ken doll did you. I guess that's one way you can take it out on the gays...

December 10, 2013 at 8:09 p.m.


Please don't become angry with me. Become angry with the facts. I am in no way angry with You. I genuinely love every living human being. I want them blessed. I do not want them hurt.

I discover that Hospice Centers throughout the world are filled with homosexual AIDS patients. Who wants anyone with HIV/AIDS experiencing the horrible increase of perivascular macrophages and hypertrophy of astrocytes in their brains? They become psychotic and demented. They scream out in unabated pain from the very drugs that they need to stay alive? Diarrhea, Diarrhea, and more Diarrhea occurs as HIV Body Wasting prevails.

Who wants to be associated with the poor loving family of the HIV/AIDS patient (loved one). They despair in throes of depression as they witness the AIDS patient (loved one)become skin and bones...talking out of their heads, hallucinating that they are already burning in Hell!

Wheresmyrights, don't play games. You already know the overwhelmingly, glaringly, high risk of the homosexual individual contracting Acquired Immune Deficiency Disease (Syndrome)AIDS. Grossly Greater percentage-wise than for heterosexual individuals per capita. Jesus Christ spoke very plainly about this through His servants. He has spoken, and the Holy Scriptures cannot be broken!


December 11, 2013 at 12:28 p.m.


Jesus Christ has already called practicing homosexuals dogs and abominations, what more do people need to convince them? They find themselves fighting with The Lord God of Hosts! The Supreme Commander and Creator of all existence.

Now Read and Learn.

(CNN) -- HIV has returned in two patients who doctors hoped had been cured of the virus following bone marrow transplants, the Boston researcher who treated them said Saturday.

The HIV virus became undetectable in both patients approximately eight months after the transplant. The men remained on antiretroviral therapy until the spring of 2013.

"The return of detectable levels of HIV in our patients is disappointing, but scientifically significant," Dr. Timothy Henrich, a researcher at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, said in a statement. "We have demonstrated HIV can be reduced to undetectable levels by very sensitive research assays and the virus persists."


December 11, 2013 at 12:36 p.m.

As you may already know there are several strains of HIV. In addition, when exposed to medications, HIV changes or mutates over time. If a person is reinfected with a strain of HIV that is different from the strains already present or if a mutated HIV type is introduced into the body through sex, etc., treatment will be much more complex and potentially ineffective. For example, someone is being treated for HIV and his/her medications are working well...the viral load is undetectable. Then he/she has sex with another person living with HIV and gets reinfected with their particular that is resistant to most medications. Over time, that new strain will flourish in the body, rendering his/her once successful treatment useless. Eventually the viral load skyrockets and the immune system pays the price. YOU CANNOT PLAY CHESS WITH JESUS CHRIST, AND, WIN. Use Wisdom Now, before it is forever TOO LATE!

Ken Orr

December 11, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.

And You want us (the innocent taxpayers) to pay for the chosen lifestyle that is know as the 'CULTURE OF DEATH'. You want us (the innocent taxpayers) to vote for Chattanooga, Tennessee to pay for Your horrible medical treatment for HIV/AIDS? If so, then I say, You have a very real and serious problem.


December 11, 2013 at 12:53 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So, Ken, you believe in dumping someone from medical insurance when they test positive for HIV? What if they are not gay?

December 11, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Jesus Christ has already called practicing homosexuals dogs and abominations, what more do people need to convince them?"

He did no such thing. That is a total contradiction to Christianity. To proclaim otherwise is blasphemy, sir. You have misrepresented facts and figures on a consistent basis and when called on it, you simply avoid it as if we are going to forget. I called you on a post you made in the Grinch forum, and instead of admitting your were wrong or correcting your mistake, you posted a totally different study that you, again, misrepresented. That makes you a bold-faced liar, plain and simple. I don't care if you think you are doing other people a favor by saving them from damnation, but if I were you, I would worry about saving yourself. Ken Orr, I am finished with this discussion. You are a disingenuous human being and there is no place in heaven for someone with so much hate in their heart. Don't bother responding, I would rather not carry on conversations with miserable people.

December 11, 2013 at 5:27 p.m.

Behold, Behold, Behold!

Deuteronomy 23:18

"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God."

keleb [keh'•lev] masculine noun 1) dog a) dog (literal) b) contempt or abasement (fig.) c) of pagan sacrifice d) of male cult prostitute (fig.) Gesenius's Lexicon Arabic/Syrian 'An unclean and despised animal, so by way of reproach, any one is called a dog, 2 Kings 8:13. Because of the shamelessness of dogs, this name is given to 'scorta Virilia'=male escorts. k'uvec, Apoc. 22:15, Deuteronomy 23:18; elsewhere. Context concludes and affirms such.

I Corinthians 6- "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Effeminate = μαλακός = malakos = mä-lä-ko's = OUTLINE of BIBLICAL USAGE 1) soft, soft to the touch 2) metaph. in a bad sense a) effeminate 1) of a catamite???? 2) of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man 3) of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness 4) of a male prostitute.

Read my lips: I do not hate homosexual individuals. On the contrary, I do love homosexual individuals! I am only trying to persuade them to leave this 'Culture of Death'. I want them blessed. They are already a dieing breed, and i do not want them suffering this horror any longer. Capiche? ken

December 12, 2013 at 12:35 a.m.

No lkeithlu, You must know I do want them treated. I just really do not want them getting sick (HIV/AIDS) in the first place. i can hardly stand the thought of all of those opportunistic infections ravaging a human being. They are someone's Son, or, Daughter. They are a Soul who I want to experience joy, success, life. If i were a multi-billionaire I would pay for every homosexual's AIDS treatment myself. Innocent babies, blood transfusion patients and others who contract AIDS...I am so sorry for them also (on another level). I know I want the City, or, whoever has the money to get them treatment. I just wish they would listen to Our Saviour Jesus and not practice homosexual behavior and put themselves at such great risk. So, lkeithlu...i've written a very long answer to Your very brief question. I'm sorry for being such a blabber-mouth.......ken

December 12, 2013 at 12:47 a.m.

Hi CitizenVoter,

Absolutely, I know that what You are saying is accurate. Why can't You, though, let me be a cogent part of the reason that individuals will leave (or, not enter) a lifestyle that puts them at such risk for terrible harm? I do not believe at all that You truly want people to go there.

December 12, 2013 at 12:58 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Any sex puts one at risk for HIV Ken. So I guess you are for selecting which HIV/AIDS victims get coverage, right? Fill out a survey-if you are gay, no care for you! BTW, homosexuals are not a breed, nor are they dying.

December 12, 2013 at 6:36 a.m.

Oh, i didn't know that homosexual individuals are NOT dying (corrected my earlier post mispelling...or, substandard spelling of dying/dieing)...from HIV/AIDS.

I may be wrong, i was focusing on this kind of definition of 'breed'. No offense intended. Homosexual individuals are HUMANS...PERIOD! kwo

Define Word 'Breed'

a. A group of organisms having common ancestors and certain distinguishable characteristics, especially a group within a species developed by artificial selection and maintained by controlled propagation.

b. A kind; a sort: a new breed of politician; a new breed of computer.

December 12, 2013 at 1:13 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Strike two, Ken. If a child gets measles because his parents don't vaccinate him for religious reasons, should I have to pay for it? If I am a vegan and someone gets obese and suffers heart disease from a diet of too much meat, should my taxes cover his care?

December 12, 2013 at 1:57 p.m.

Well, right at this moment, i fear a strike three, so I will dive a little deeper, look a little closer, look and look again, then unlock Your analogies/comparisons/contrasts, etc., which will give me a clearer understanding of Your meanings which will allow me to present valid refutations...i think...I hope. Anyway, here are six words of advice for You:

Get ready, get ready, get ready!

Why? Because forthcoming are my refutations. kwo

December 13, 2013 at 12:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

The mayor and council are not elected to impose moral standards but they are elected to be good stewards of tax payer money and to fulfill their fiduciary obligation responsibly. They cannot do this and extend benefits to domestic partners. One reason given by those supporting it was "it is fair" which is a subjective conclusion based on their personal view therefore concluding that taxpayers are obligated to fund it without questioning fairness to the taxpayer. Another was to retain employees which is not valid nor supported by experience data, how many domestic partners will resign their position if this benefit expansion is not provided? How many city positions require a unique unavailable knowledge, skill and ability that cannot be easily replaced? A third and most irritating justification was it only increases the current budget by about 1%. The budget is already stressed with justified cuts necessary in other areas to avoid additional cost to live in the city of Chattanooga.

An employers extension of benefits to any family member is not necessary and is not a "right". The city should learn from those for profit businesses and establish a defined benefits cost process with the employee deciding what benefits those dollars will provide. Bringing government employee productivity and compensation in line with the private sector for like or similar work would yield major savings and a sound fiscal foundation for the city avoiding the need for added property taxes and other fees.

Most citizens accept the fact they should have no say about the life style choices others make but they should object to being required to financially support alternative life style choices.

December 14, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

but they should object to being required to financially support alternative life style choices.

Who decides what is "alternative"? Anyone can "object" to their taxes being used to support whatever it is they don't approve of. Argue for financial reasons, but don't to pass judgment on who gets the benefits and who doesn't. If common-law spouses receive (which some don't approve of) but same sex married spouses don't (which others don't approve of) how is that fair?

December 14, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.

I contend that there are no common-law spouses (as a collective group) who even comes near to the risk of excessively exorbitant medical costs. These costs by default go to innocent City Taxpayers who DO NOT choose such a high risk for HIV/AIDS/plethora of Opportunistic Infections, etc. kwo

December 14, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Strike 3, Ken. You have not addressed those other high risk activities that we all have to pay for.

December 14, 2013 at 6:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

lkeithlu said...

but they should object to being required to financially support alternative life style choices. Who decides what is "alternative"? Anyone can "object" to their taxes being used to support whatever it is they don't approve of.

I did and do think as noted earlier it inappropriate to provide benefits to anyone other than the employee. It is time to have defined benefits and to allow the employee to decide how those benefit dollars are to be allocated. It is time for an independent survey of compensation in the metropolitan supply area and bring government employee productivity and compensation in line with the private sector for like or similar work. This would yield 20-30% reduced cost for government employees while reducing discretionary spending for non essential items would yield similar savings for tax payers. It isn't going to happen but it could and should if those in office were committed to doing what they should instead of to being elected again and again.

December 15, 2013 at 1:01 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Now, that, fairmon, is something I can agree with !

December 15, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.

The homosexual population owns the excessively exorbitantly highest risk for HIV/AIDS/plethora of Opportunistic Infections, etc. per capita.

Should The City of Chattanooga (We, The People) Promote a Chosen Behavior That_Is costing Innocent Citizen Tax Payers $400,000.00 to $600,000 Per Lifetime, Per Indigent HIV/AIDS Patient?" To Promote Homosexual Civil Union is to Promote The Behavior. This is Not to be Mean. This Is 'Center For Disease Control' (CDC) Fact.


Dr. Kevin Fenton Director, CDC’s National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention: Men Having Sex With Men Accounted For 61% Of All New HIV Infections In The U.S. In 2009. That Number May Be Much Greater Now.

December 17, 2013 at 11:28 a.m.

And Women! Listen Up! Lesbians-Be advised that in the state of Tennessee Women make up approximately 24% of AIDS Diagnosis. (23.7 actual percentage).

At the end of 2010 it was estimated that OUT OF THE 34 MILLION ADULTS WORLDWIDE LIVING WITH HIV/AIDS, HALF (1/2) ARE WOMEN.2 The AIDS epidemic has had a unique impact on women, which has been exacerbated by their role within society and their biological vulnerability to HIV infection.

HIV/AIDS is skyrocketing among females. Along with this is associated most every GUT PARASITE and viral, bacterial, EVEN SPORE-FORMING BACTERIA LIKE C.difficile which can be found in the intestines.

In recent years around a quarter of new adult HIV diagnoses HAVE BEEN AMONG WOMEN. Half of all positive DIAGNOSIS IN FEMALES were in young people aged under 20 years old.


December 17, 2013 at 11:38 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ken, Obesity is a far bigger problem than HIV/AIDS. What are you doing to prevent us from having to pay for it? Isn't gluttony a sin?

Strike 3. You are out.

December 17, 2013 at 1:08 p.m.

It is a scientific fact (law of physics) that a person cannot weigh more than the amount of food/drink that they take in (eat/drink/iv's?). Even a tumor cannot grow without being fed!

I think over-eaters have a serious problem. My heart goes out to them as well as to homosexual individuals. (They both choose an extremely risky behavior). I love over-eating obese people with a pure and undefiled heart just the same as I love the homosexual individual. Both categories definitely pay for their choices. I am sorry, i am so sorry for both their choices.

It is my belief that negative behaviors should not be rewarded. Both of the above categories should be rated very, very highly according to the risk/predictability of the increased taxpayer costs to keep them alive. The 'law of big numbers'_utilized by life insurance companies (especially as applied to HIV/AIDS risk individuals)to calculate individual premium costs to insured individuals should also be used by health insurance companies. This would protect innocent tax payers who pay dearly to fund state, county, city benefits packages.


December 17, 2013 at 3:36 p.m.


I cry foul! I did an instant re-play and found that technically i did not rack up another (3rd) strike. You should not have conclusively called me out until i had time to protest Your call! I demand that we retain an unbiased Ump to take a look at the re-play and referee regarding the actual facts i presented. What say You?

December 17, 2013 at 3:45 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Nope. You just revealed for the third time that you discriminate against gays with no rational reason. If being gay should be morally condemned by society because of the cost of HIV/AIDs, then being overweight should morally condemned because of the cost of heart disease, diabetes and other health impacts.

December 17, 2013 at 6:48 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

PS not all gays get HIV/AIDS you know. And not all people who contract HIV are gay.

December 17, 2013 at 7:29 p.m.

lkeithlu, Uummmph!...uh,aahhha: Men Having Sex With Men Accounts For Approximately Three-Quaters of HIV/AIDS Diagnoses. The Cases of HIV diagnoses among Men Having Sex With Men is more than 44 times that of Heterosexual men.

December 17, 2013 at 11:01 p.m.

lkeithlu, Uummmph!...uh,aahhha: According to one study published by the CDC in 2010, one in five Men Having Sex With Men in the 21 cities surveyed has HIV and almost half are unaware of their status.

Homosexual Individuals Choose a Preference of Sexual Behavior Which Places Them In The Dreaded Highest Category of HIV/AIDS (Per Capita).Infected Humans! [Center For Disease Control Statistic]


December 17, 2013 at 11:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are not justifying the singling out of gay men to condemn, Ken. Your reasons can be applied to all high risk behavior, and in fact represent a larger number of people and incur much higher costs. Yet you focus on gay men. So I declare you to be a bigot, trying to use health or cost issues to justify your bigotry. Just come out and say you hate and fear gay men and be done with it. Your pathetic attempts to justify treating gay men as citizens with full freedoms and rights just don't work.

December 18, 2013 at 7:06 a.m.

Jesus Christ, The Supreme Commander of all existance, has commanded me to love all of His people. He has warned me that I am to judge none, except myself.

Jesus said that some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11...Speaking to Pilate Jesus said:

Jesus answered, "Thou couldest have no power at all against Me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the GREATER SIN."

John 12:48...Jesus said:

"He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath One that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

Jesus Christ proclaimed that the individual who practices homosexuality is a dog. He said practicing homosexuals are dogs, I did not say that.

Deuteronomy 23:18

"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God."

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 03611
Original Word Word Origin

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech keh'-leb Noun Masculine


contempt or abasement (fig.)

of pagan sacrifice

of male cult prostitute (fig.)


December 20, 2013 at 10:19 a.m.

I choose to be One with Jesus Christ. That is marriage as a unity. Marriage=Unity and does not have to include sex.

Jesus Christ said that practicing homosexuals are abominations.

Deuteronomy 22:5

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God."

Leviticus 18:22

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:.."


December 20, 2013 at 10:24 a.m.

1 Kings 14:24

"And there were also Sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel." (many other Bible Scriptures against Sodomites).

Be real enough to say along with David The Psalmist;

Psalm 51:4

"Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Thy sight: that Thou mightest be justified when Thou speakest, and be clear when Thou judgest."


December 20, 2013 at 10:27 a.m.


The individual with wisdom should understand that when the New Testament confirms/affirms that which has been declared in the Old Testament...then even more heed should be taken to what is being declared.

This confirmation results in the commands and admonitions being more modern/timely/relevant than todays minute-by-minute news headlines!

The New Testament confirms the abomination of practicing homosexuals by stating thusly:

ROMANS 1:22- "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,..."

Jesus Christ, Through Saint James, Said: James 1:15

"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

This, and other Biblical[not Secular) laws are absolute, everlasting irrefutable, is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit The Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit The Kingdom of God."


December 20, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are digging yourself deeper and deeper, Ken. Quoting scripture as a smokescreen isn't helping. You cannot hide your hate and fear of gay men, so you insist that society (and your god) punish them disproportionately. Epic fail.

December 20, 2013 at 4:21 p.m.

Acts 4:18-20

And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said unto them, "Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye." For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

"Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye."


December 21, 2013 at 12:36 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Give it up, Ken. You are not convincing anyone; certainly not me, who doesn't believe that your bible is anything other than an old book.

December 21, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

Not that many in the United States...compared to the number who do believe (in the U.S.). My most recent count is nearly Three-Hundred-Million believers in the United States.

World wide: two-billion-three hundred million-eight-hundred-seventy-seven thousand-seven-hundred and seventy-seven folks who believe.


December 22, 2013 at 12:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

And that means absolutely nothing to this discussion. Many people believe the world is 8000 years old; doesn't make it so.

December 22, 2013 at 7:24 a.m.
  1. If there are no absolute standards, then anyone can, with impunity, make the decision of what is painful/harmful to others. If anyone contests what you believe, then, that would be discrimination. This is beyond cause and effect because other humans (Court Judges, etc.) would not have the right to issue disciplines/punishments, etc.

  2. You cannot logically prove that creation is without intelligent design. Ontologically speaking, God is the greatest great of which there is no greater great. I can prove there is intelligent design, and, that there does exist a greatest great of which there is no greater great.

I 'can' prove there is intelligent design, and, that there does exist a greatest great of which there is no greater great.


December 22, 2013 at 1:25 p.m.

If You claim there exists no Deity/Standard/Moral Rule Maker, then, to me, that would translate into your not believing in absolutes.

It would sound to me that you, therefore, can do anything you choose to do...and it is right to you. . But, ah, then you would be conceding that you are the Deity.

December 22, 2013 at 1:30 p.m.

Biblical prophecy: Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance, without error, is less than one in 10 to the 2000/th (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)! In other words there is essentially NO CHANCE IN REALITY that these prophecies were fulfilled by chance.

December 22, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I 'can' prove there is intelligent design, and, that there does exist a greatest great of which there is no greater great.

I declare BS. Show me.

Biblical prophecy: Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors

Also BS. Demonstrate this. Most were either too vague or written after the fact.

Finally, you have done NOTHING to demonstrate that your condemnation and vilification of gay men is motivated by anything other than your own personal fear and bigotry.

December 22, 2013 at 3:56 p.m.

Well,lkeithlu i don't want to take up more than my fair share of space graciouslly provided us by THE CHATTANOOGA TIMES FREE PRESS, goes a couple 'Demonstrations' of evidence:

(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 5th power.)*

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 5th power.)

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 11th power.)

February 9, 2014 at 12:46 p.m.

MORE ALL OF THESE, ABOVE AND FOLLOWING: *The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists!!!!!!!

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 13th power.)

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 15th power.)

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 9th power.)

February 9, 2014 at 12:58 p.m.


(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 18th power.)

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 20th power.)

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 5th power.)

February 9, 2014 at 1:01 p.m.


(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 7th power).

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 9th power).

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 8th power).

February 9, 2014 at 1:10 p.m.

MORE ...i ended with the number 13 representing 1 God in 3 Persons>>>God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit. Much like cloaning, God The Father actually placed flesh onto His Holy Word, Jesus Christ. We cannot be separated from our words/thoughts {Logos}, and, like unto this, God's Word was always with Him...He and His Word are the same in Unity.

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 13th power).

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

February 9, 2014 at 1:16 p.m.

All of the concurrent (preceeding) comments provided by Ken ORR are cited as references provided by Dr. Hugh Ross for the Worship, Praise, Adoration and Exhaltation of his and my Saviour, Jesus Christ of Nazareth! Please, Please, go out and purchase Dr. Hugh Ross' legendary book 'Reasons To Believe'. This is an amazing, relevant, historical, Soul Winning book of eternal value!


February 9, 2014 at 1:25 p.m.

The odds for 2000 fufilled Bible prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 10 to the 2000th power (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!

Behold!!!>>>10 TO THE 2000th!

1,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 10 to the 2000th power (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


February 9, 2014 at 1:46 p.m.

The field will not duplicate the actual 2000 zeros, preceeded by a 1. Yet,I know everyone gets it... kwo...


February 9, 2014 at 2 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Nope, it's crap.

The bible is full of stuff that is wrong. If you understand how the bible was written and when it was written, then it makes perfect sense. But Genesis did not happen as written, there was no Adam, Eve, talking snake, Garden of Eden, Global flood or ark.

None of this excuses your sick obsession with other people's sex lives.

February 9, 2014 at 4:41 p.m.

Please try to understand, lkeithlu , it is not the sex lives that is my focus. I can understand why it seems that way to You. My focus is on Our Thrice Holy God, Jesus Christ, who has decreed irrefutable laws for our existence. I only try to expound upon the probable/possible reasons YHWH would decree such laws. As an example, it is a universal law of Jesus that unforgiven practicing homosexuals will die and go to everlasting hell. I try to produce reasons, even for my own understanding, that The Lord God of Hosts would decree such a thing! Our Heavenly Father also decreed that it is He who judges such individuals and that we are out of order to try to judge homosexual individuals. I could care less, otherwise, about their sex lives. Different private sexual behavior makes different people sick to their stomachs to even think/know about these behaviors. Other people like the same things. I could care less. I just want people happy and blessed. Being happy and blessed is impossible when practicing a behavior that will be punished by Our Creator. I don't know why YHWH says, "Do this! Don't do That!". Yet, I try to think of some possible reasons why, then share them with others over The Chattanooga Times Free Press Editorial Comment Section!

Much Love to You and Everyone else,


February 11, 2014 at 7:03 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

No, Ken, you are obsessed with the physical details of gay male sex. Plain and simple. You need help.

February 12, 2014 at 8:30 a.m.
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