published Saturday, September 14th, 2013

Obamacare

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Maximus said...

Keep it locked down GOP. We can't afford it and it will suck hard anyway! If it ain't good for the UAW it ain't good for us.

September 14, 2013 at 12:48 a.m.
gypsylady said...

It's working just fine for a lot of us.

September 14, 2013 at 1:02 a.m.
fairmon said...

Take two aspirin and comment after it has been fully implemented for one year. Don't be surprised if premiums double and the number uninsured increases.

We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, who have recently demonstrated their objective and professional integrity; written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security, Medicare, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, and the Post Office all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!

'What the hell could possibly go wrong?'

September 14, 2013 at 1:58 a.m.
alprova said...

ObamaCare is going to be unfolded right on schedule, and now that the President has personally not given in to the whims of the unions who have offered some opposition to it, I guess any charges that the President in beholden to the unions will now be moot points, right?

I wonder what little tricks the GOP will try in the next two weeks to stop ObamaCare. Nothing has worked so far to stop it.

Two weeks and three days. That's all we have left to see for sure what was in that bill they passed.

Will the chicken wing flappers have flapped those wings over nothing? My money is on the affirmative.

September 14, 2013 at 2:06 a.m.
MasterBlaster said...

How DARE this Muslim appeaser "President" Obummer go against "GOD's DIVINE PLAN" and try to save these people from death for not having insurance! Jesus would boot him in the nuts over helping people who are not worthy of being saved!!

September 14, 2013 at 2:08 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon, you used to be someone who one could discuss issues with.

Here lately, you have become yet another who finds it necessary to post falsehoods you have gleaned elsewhere, repeatedly, even AFTER most of that stupid paragraph has been debunked.

But that's okay, for you too will join all the others with egg on their faces in a couple of weeks.

September 14, 2013 at 2:15 a.m.
alprova said...

Jason Girouard from Brimfield, Massachusetts took home a prize of $1,500 for his early bird video called "We are not invincible, we are human."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIIpMzZPds&feature=player_embedded#t=0

His submission was among the first awards that will be issued as part of the Healthy Young American contest, sponsored by the HHS.

http://health.younginvincibles.org/video-contest/

September 14, 2013 at 2:28 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Will the chicken wing flappers have flapped those wings over nothing? My money is on the affirmative.

alprova, you can't begin to imagine how much I hope you are right about the wonderfulness of Obamacare. It would be the best thing for everyone if that proves to be true.

al also says... Two weeks and three days. That's all we have left to see for sure what was in that bill they passed.

This is not totally true. As I said, take two aspirin and call me after it has been fully implemented and in effect a full year.

September 14, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.
joneses said...

Great cartoon Clay showing that you believe obamacare should be locked up. Their might be hope for you after all.

September 14, 2013 at 6:03 a.m.
degage said...

Al, So you actually believe the members of congress read this bill and polosi didn't say we had to vote for it to find out what is in it? If you believe that you are the one that is delusional. Fairmon is right, every thing said in that paragraph is true and you know it you just can't or don't want to believe it because of your special self interest. I don't blame you because you do have a reason to want this. And are you sure the unions didn't get what they want yesterday? I haven't heard.

As a senior my payments have gone up along with co-pays and my doctor is thinking about refusing to take any more Medicare or Medicaid patients. He did tell me he would continue with the patients he has now but no new ones. In fact he is not sure how long he will continue with his practice if this isn't changed.

September 14, 2013 at 6:18 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

even AFTER most of that stupid paragraph has been debunked

alprova..I went back and read it again. What is not accurate? It doesn't say it won't be implemented.

It is a tax and not a fine but the same result. One of the authors says it is a train wreck. The IRS agents are being added. It does not provide for additional doctors. Obama does smoke, Geithner did fail to pay his taxes. Many members of congress admit they did not read it. The AG is overweight. Congress did change how they and their staff were affected although you insist they are not exempt. The fiscal condition of the other government agencies are well known. Taxes will be in effect before all phases are in effect.

September 14, 2013 at 6:20 a.m.
fairmon said...

degage said..

As a senior my payments have gone up along with co-pays and my doctor is thinking about refusing to take any more Medicare or Medicaid patients. He did tell me he would continue with the patients he has now but no new ones. In fact he is not sure how long he will continue with his practice if this isn't changed.

I know five people, including my mother, who have had similar experiences. I know two doctors that are retiring earlier than they had previously planned and one that is closing his practice and going into the medical devices sales business. Her doctor and one other have posted signs saying not accepting new Medicare patients. You will hear few or no complaints from pharmaceuticals or insurance companies that helped write it and funded publicity to promote it. The regulations are still being written and are not subject to congressional review and approval before issued. This is another case of congress abdicating their responsibility, both parties. It will be funded and implemented.

September 14, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

Does the cartoon suggest the GOP has the combination to healthcare?

The unions liked it before they didn't like it and once exempt from the tax on their Cadillac plan and a few other tweaks moving their added cost to others they will like it again. Waffling is ok if it saves you money or gets you votes.

September 14, 2013 at 6:46 a.m.
EaTn said...

I'd like to thank the GOP for all their efforts to help implement then kill Obamacare, which will eventually evolve into something similar to Medicaid/Medicare. They don't have any other viable solution on the table.

September 14, 2013 at 7:12 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, So you actually believe the members of congress read this bill and polosi didn't say we had to vote for it to find out what is in it?"

A most famous quote, taken completely out of the context it was presented.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/pelosi-defends-her-infamous-health-care-remark/2012/06/20/gJQAqch6qV_blog.html

"If you believe that you are the one that is delusional."

Delusion exists only in the minds of those who do not at least attempt to understand an equally alternative truth that illustrates what is behind an on the surface, outrageous quote.

"Fairmon is right, every thing said in that paragraph is true and you know it you just can't or don't want to believe it because of your special self interest."

Everything in that stupid quote has been debunked repeatedly. Most of that paragraph contains a set of outright lies.

"I don't blame you because you do have a reason to want this."

My dear, you haven't been paying attention. ObamaCare is not going to do a thing for me. I'm waiting on my notification from Social Security to be allowed to sign up for Medicare, which is my only option at the moment.

"And are you sure the unions didn't get what they want yesterday? I haven't heard."

Yep. Obama said "No."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/13/trumka-calls-for-obamacare-concessions-for-unions-after-white-house-meeting/?intcmp=latestnews

"As a senior my payments have gone up along with co-pays and my doctor is thinking about refusing to take any more Medicare or Medicaid patients."

As are other medical providers, but that is nothing new. Where do people get the idea that any Doctor is going to be theirs for life? Medical providers have always tried to keep a balance of patients on Medicare with those who have higher paying insurance plans.

"In fact he is not sure how long he will continue with his practice if this isn't changed."

Hey...there is no shortage of people out there willing to cut off their noses to spite their face.

I know a dozen Physicians who do not look at patients in terms of dollars and cents. They are medical providers who actually care about people. They see a dozen people a day, from whom they expect to never collect a dime from.

September 14, 2013 at 8:01 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

People keep saying there are not enough doctors. From whom are these uninsured millions getting their health care from now?

September 14, 2013 at 8:03 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al, you talk about how successful ObamaCare is going to be yet, you have even admitted that you have been dropped from your pre-existing condition policy under ObamaCare. How is that being successful?

Please do not say this happened because there were more people enrolling then the government had funded for, because that is not true. Fact is enrollment was less then they had budgeted for and they still ran out of money because of the high costs associated with patients with pre existing conditions.

So you were kicked out to fend for yourself. Sounds like ObamaCare does have a Death Panel and they made the decision not to cover you any longer.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/20/obamacare-pre-existing-conditions-coverage-low-enrollment-high-costs/

September 14, 2013 at 8:06 a.m.
degage said...

Al, And they can't pay their employees because they aren't getting paid for their services. How long can anyone stay in business if they aren't paid for their services? Not long.

September 14, 2013 at 8:08 a.m.
EaTn said...

fairmon said...."my doctor is thinking about refusing to take any more Medicare or Medicaid patients."

True, some doctors may have to cut back on a car or beach house here and there, but this is the future. Companies are cutting back on employee medical insurance, forcing many to seek less lucrative insurance policies. The smart doctors will hire more PA's to keep income with less per patient payments.

September 14, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.
alprova said...

I had the same thought, Ikeithlu. You beat me to it. Doctors come and go. They always have.

I haven't read of one medical school throughout the world that has filed for bankruptcy or has closed their doors, in anticipation that the AHA is causing mass defections from those who were previously seeking a career in medicine.

And quite frankly, outside of the United States, people don't usually seek to become doctors for reasons by which to enrich themselves.

And this is strictly my opinion, but if money is the main reason one seeks to become a medical professional, they should be ashamed of themselves. I personally don't want someone attending me who only sees green.

It's not hard to spot such providers.

They are the ones who will attempt to push the most expensive medications down your throat, eager to rack up those kickbacks that drug companies offer.

They are the ones who will only spend 5 minutes in the room and out the door they go.

September 14, 2013 at 8:20 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I am guessing that NPs will be taking up the bulk of the preventative care and minor issues, leaving physicians to care for those cases that need their expertise. That is an efficient and effective way of operating a primary care practice. Many times I have been to an office specifically to see the NP, who was the only woman in the practice. I left the practice when she did and moved where I could be seen by females.

September 14, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, you talk about how successful ObamaCare is going to be yet, you have even admitted that you have been dropped from your pre-existing condition policy under ObamaCare. How is that being successful?"

Sir, I was dropped due to the fact that of my conditions has degenerated to the point that I must be kicked over to Medicare, which has been done with people in my situation for decades.

"So you were kicked out to fend for yourself. Sounds like ObamaCare does have a Death Panel and they made the decision not to cover you any longer."

ObamaCare did not kick me out. The insurance company did. In a perfect world, I would have simultaneously received paperwork from Medicare to coincide with the mandated transformation, but that didn't happen.

All should be in place within the next 60 days. In the meantime, I am praying that I am not hospitalized.

September 14, 2013 at 8:33 a.m.
alprova said...

Another homerun Ikeithlu. I too see three different NP's on a regular basis, for my more routine checkups, lab analysis reviews, and medications renewals.

The biggest explosion within the medical community is the need for more NP's. Unfortunately, most will move on to bigger and better things after a period of time, so the names and faces change quite frequently, but they do serve a purpose and will go a long way to filling the need for more medical professionals.

September 14, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo a classic example of a blind follower.

September 14, 2013 at 8:41 a.m.
degage said...

Al, I have a question for you. If a person came to your lot and said " I need a car but I can't pay for it." would you then give him the car and say that's all right I will make it up on the back of others that are paying? No you wouldn't and if you say you would I would say you are being dishonest.

September 14, 2013 at 8:47 a.m.
alprova said...

PT, you're an example of a perfect sphincter muscle surrounding a void.

September 14, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Madam Gage: Please don't feed the gas-bag. 🔥

September 14, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

degage, that's happening now. Whenever a charity case is treated in a hospital, we pay. And the cost is more than if that person had been receiving preventative care through a primary.

September 14, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Insurance have caps? Low birthweight baby spending months in a NICU? We pay for that too. Under insured person with cancer? We pay. Uninsured in a trauma unit after an accident? We pay.

I can understand if people object to parts of the ACA (as long as they are not responding to the well-financed misinformation campaign) What I want to know is how the opponents plan to solve these problems? What is the alternative plan being proposed? Bashing ACA is not enough.

September 14, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, Preventive care? most people go to the doctor after they are already sick, not before. I see my doctor every 6 months because of my history of heart, lung and cancer problems otherwise I would probably be one of the most people. You are probably one of the ones that use preventive care and I applaud you for that, but the majority don't.

September 14, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, I have a question for you. If a person came to your lot and said " I need a car but I can't pay for it." would you then give him the car and say that's all right I will make it up on the back of others that are paying? No you wouldn't and if you say you would I would say you are being dishonest."

I turn people down all the time, for various reasons, but then I am not in the business of delivering a service or product that has a life or death impact on people's lives.

Further, as part of my licensing, I was not required to take an oath to "not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my [customer]."

September 14, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You really aren't answering my question, degage. We already pay for the uninsured. Keeping things as they are is not good. So if not ACA, what?

Is my memory faulty, or has every administration since Reagan said they were going to do something about this?

September 14, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.
alprova said...

degage, those who do not have insurance are less likely to see a doctor until it is too late, because they can't afford to do otherwise.

Preventative care is a fantastic way to reduce health care costs, as you state, but it starts with at the very least, insuring as many people as is humanly possible, so that they will have the means to avail themselves of an affordable health care system.

That is the goal of ObamaCare. It will not happen overnight. It will likely take four years to get those numbers of insured to levels where the reforms being attempted, will take root.

Mitt Romney did himself a disservice by running away from his most notable accomplishment that he could have touted about as Governor, and I dare offer that his choosing to appease the ignorant is a very good reason why he is not in Washington today.

RomneyCare is still working in Massachusetts, and you will not find very many people in that state who trash it.

September 14, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, cross state lines for health insurance, cap on law suites. I am not against some parts of the ACA but other parts are not needed especially the thousands of pages of regulations. Some regulations are okay but the ones in place are way too much.

September 14, 2013 at 9:27 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "...cross state lines for health insurance..."

The states that refused to set up health care insurance exchanges have made that particular Republican talking point a Democrat party delivery.

The National health care insurance exchange will provide insurance free from state regulations, which will accomplish the buying of insurance policies across state lines.

"...cap on law suites..."

That's all well and good until you are a victim of medical malpractice or a medical mistake, especially if you are disabled or harmed for life.

I will not deny that there are frivolous lawsuits filed every day of the week, but there are also those that are filed for very good reasons, and limiting or offering any amount of protection or insulation from our justice system is just as destructive as our failing health care system.

We must allow our judges to be in a position to determine what deserves addressing in a court of law, and what deserves to be discarded.

Our system of justice is not perfect, but it is among the best in the world.

September 14, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.
soakya said...

the goal of obama care is to move to a single payer system. the federal government does such a good job with everything else it puts its hand on, why not turn healthcare over to it. and all you who now trust and put their faith in this government, one day your savior or party will not be in charge. My goodness you're still blaming bush after 5 years with this incompetent bozo.

for all you capitalist and profit haters, let your company take away the profit motive and see how long you have a job. let that used car salesman take away the profit motive and see how long he wants to sell cars. everyone of you profit haters that currently have a job need to tell your employers I'm glad you want to make a profit because that allows me to have a job. That goes for you government employees too, its that same profit motive that pays your paycheck.

September 14, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ clearly

September 14, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

alprova, "right on schedule"? The employer mandate has been postponed a year, and I read somewhere it's missed half its deadlines so far. But the CEO who flies 747s to his golf outings is forcing us peons to pony up to the insurance companies "right on schedule."

September 14, 2013 at 10:09 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

This thing is so wonderful the taxpayers have to buy ads for it, while today's Times editorial complains of money spent buying ads against?

September 14, 2013 at 10:11 a.m.
Maximus said...

Who cares really? Stop smoking, get off your fat ass and go to work and you won't need to pay much attention to losers like Barry The Welfare Pimp or the crappy guvment healthcare bill he passed.

For my tax money, bombs and fuel for B52's is a much better investment than crappy Obamerscare.

September 14, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

alprova, other than calling it lies, did you offer any line by line refutation of the 6:20am post?

Paul Krugman, big fan of O'Romneycare, admits the average insurance premium will go up, and admits that the whole thing works by forcing healthy people to pay sick people to be sick. Along with unconstitutional (because Congress has no authority whatsoever to legislate on health care, tho it does have on private warships), it's just plain dumb.

One of Tennessee's GOP senators offered an alternative of a couple hundred pages. There are GOP alternatives out there.

September 14, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

I see we have the faithful single digit IQ folks pecking at the keyboard this morning.

Click the link at the bottom for details. The policy quoted is for a single 23 year old male without any pre-existing conditions and is a non smoker. He is 6' tall and weighs 180 lbs. These figures put him at his acceptable BMI and qualifies him for the best rates. Policy cost for the year is @ $1,200. Deductible is $3500. This plan offers prescription insurance but does include a maximum benefit that brings his total out of pocket to $6,000 per year plus the premium. If you click on the plan details you see out of network costs are the biggest expense to the young man if he has an accident or requires immediate surgery as one has no time to arrange for an in network physician and anesthesiologist if one were available. The out of pocket for such unplanned emergencies is $11,000/$22,000 annually. I don't see any difference from what the young man could have purchased before Obamacare and what is available come next month. Without changing how medical costs are controlled the price to maintain ones health will still be prohibitive. Feel free to go to georgia.healthcare.com/ and search for a policy to see just how affordable, or not, this wonderful new law has made healthcare. Include a major illness or disease for this scenario and see what the cost is!!!

Remember the young man @ 23 looking for his own policy is most likely earning @ $10.00 hourly. Wiki had a 22 year old 4 year college grad who found employment at a research university earning $26,000. I am confident his employment came with a work paid health plan. He is not the person Obamacare was intended to help. So the hourly employee making @ $20,000 annually must pay out a max in network $7,200 annually. This also comes with annual limits on prescription benefits. If out of network services are required, and many times there are no in network doctors participating in such plans the results are financial ruin for the young man. So would someone please tell me what good this Obama plan has done for anyone?

And alpo, please no circular breathing with your comments. Please deal with the facts. Yes we know they receive a Tax Benefit. You being the CPA??? please tell us what the young man saved on his taxes after the benefit is calculated.

And for gypsylady who commented that Obamacare works fine for you, please share your situation and what insurance you have signed up for. Or are you a Medicaid/Medicare recipient. If the latter is the case, please don't comment and we will understand you are receiving the best and lowest cost healthcare in the nation!!! Don't forget to thank all the nice taxpayers who have provided you with such excellent healthcare if you are a recipient. Everyone should be so lucky!

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/ifp/plan-details?planKey=3002:200116&productLine=IFP&noSelectedPlan=true&ifpUIState.planDetailsBackUrl=/ifp/all-plans

September 14, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

I know a dozen Physicians who do not look at patients in terms of dollars and cents. They are medical providers who actually care about people. They see a dozen people a day, from whom they expect to never collect a dime from.

and he said...

this is strictly my opinion, but if money is the main reason one seeks to become a medical professional, they should be ashamed of themselves. I personally don't want someone attending me who only sees green.

Sounds like you had no need for insurance since you know so many doctors that would take care of you for nothing. I am trying to understand how you qualify for Medicare/Medicaid with the lucrative business income you have?

Your allegation that doctors insist on certain drugs in order to get a "kick back" is ludicrous. Doctor fees are not causing the rising cost in healthcare. Government intervention/involvement is the primary cause. The government should stick to legislating and quit participating in the medicating. Have you refused to see any specialist because he/she is not competent and in it only for the money?

September 14, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.
degage said...

Good one Fairmon, right on. Al, thinks because the doctor took an oath they have no right to make a living. He claims he took no oath so it is ok for him to not give a free car to someone who really needs to get a job. He doesn't take it in to consideration the doctor spent tens of thousands of dollars getting that degree and years as an intern and resident to become a doctor. He has the socialist mentality.

September 14, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.
anniebelle said...

whatthefuss said: Don't forget to thank all the nice taxpayers who have provided you with such excellent healthcare if you are a recipient. That's most disingenuous, at best. I don't recall any taxpayer but myself making contributions to my Medicare/Social Security during my 50 years of working. The taxes came directly out of my paycheck every month single month.

September 14, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.
degage said...

anniebelle, you are right, we paid into the fund and the government moved it to the general fund and spent it. Now they need to honor the iou they gave us when they took it and put it into the general fund.

September 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

There is validity to alprova's point: hospitals are required to treat patients in the ER, regardless of whether they can pay. An ER doctor cannot refuse to treat someone. Hospitals are not like other businesses, in that they are bound by law to provide a service. It is nothing like "giving someone a car". Now, long term treatment of an injury/illness may differ depending on insurance, but life saving treatment is compulsory. You'd be surprised just how much is spent saving lives of people who will never pay.

September 14, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.
degage said...

Ike, I understand where you are coming from all to well. 2 years ago my son was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the lung in June.His insurance had run out and he passed away july of that same year. The hospital did help the family and he was not turned away. Parents are not supposed to out live their children. As for the insurance, it is a long story so I won't go into it.

September 14, 2013 at 7 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I am so sorry for your loss, degage. Condolences.

September 14, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Click the link at the bottom for details. The policy quoted is for a single 23 year old male without any pre-existing conditions and is a non smoker. He is 6' tall and weighs 180 lbs. These figures put him at his acceptable BMI and qualifies him for the best rates. Policy cost for the year is @ $1,200. Deductible is $3500. This plan offers prescription insurance but does include a maximum benefit that brings his total out of pocket to $6,000 per year plus the premium. Deductible is $3500. This plan offers prescription insurance but does include a maximum benefit that brings his total out of pocket to $6,000 per year plus the premium. If you click on the plan details you see out of network costs are the biggest expense to the young man if he has an accident or requires immediate surgery as one has no time to arrange for an in network physician and anesthesiologist if one were available. The out of pocket for such unplanned emergencies is $11,000/$22,000 annually. I don't see any difference from what the young man could have purchased before Obamacare and what is available come next month. Without changing how medical costs are controlled the price to maintain ones health will still be prohibitive. Feel free to go to georgia.healthcare.com/ and search for a policy to see just how affordable, or not, this wonderful new law has made healthcare. Include a major illness or disease for this scenario and see what the cost is!!!"

First of all, the rates you see are current 2013 rates. They are not AHA rates. Setting aside your example for a moment, let's run this man through the Kaiser calculator, which is more reflective of the rates that will be rolled out next month.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#income-type=dollars&income=20800&employer-coverage=0&people=1&adult-count=1&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=21&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

"So the hourly employee making @ $20,000 annually must pay out a max in network $7,200 annually."

Nope. Feeding your criteria into the Kaiser calculator, a $10.00 an hour employee, or one who earns $20,800 per year, would place him at 181% above the poverty level.

A silver plan would cost $3,018 a year, or $251.50 a month before subsidies are applied.

His maximum out of pocket premium expense would total 5.43% of his income, or $1,129 a year for his premium for a silver plan, or about $94.00 a month.

September 14, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.
alprova said...

He would be entitled to a subsidy of $1,889 per year, or $157.42 a month, applied immediately upon signing up for a silver plan. The premium he would have to pay would be around $94.00 a month.

The maximum out-of-pocket expenses, outside of the premium, would total $2,250 per year. A silver plan would pay approximately 87% of his medical expenses, depending on his claim volume.

Thus, the total out-of-pocket expenses he would have to endure, if he maximized his claims in a year, would total $3,379.00

Regardless of the level of plan one chooses, all plans must cover;

  1. Ambulatory patient services
  2. Emergency services
  3. Hospitalization
  4. Maternity and newborn care
  5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
  6. Prescription drugs
  7. Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices
  8. Laboratory services
  9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
  10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care

"So would someone please tell me what good this Obama plan has done for anyone?"

What you were looking at was not an AHA plan. The calculator I point you to includes what AHA plans will look like.

"And alpo, please no circular breathing with your comments. Please deal with the facts. Yes we know they receive a Tax Benefit. You being the CPA??? please tell us what the young man saved on his taxes after the benefit is calculated."

There are no tax benefits. The subsidies, if one qualifies for them, are immediately applied to the premium and claimed at the time one signs up for a plan.

Your premium is reduced each and every month by the subsidy amount.

September 14, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Sounds like you had no need for insurance since you know so many doctors that would take care of you for nothing."

Why are you intentionally trying to change words that I have not offered. Much of my current medical care is research trial based, which does not cost me one cent.

The rest of my medical costs are discounted severely because I am a self-pay patient. Even when I was insured as a PCIP insured, I did not file claims. I selected a catastrophic plan with high deductibles.

"I am trying to understand how you qualify for Medicare/Medicaid with the lucrative business income you have?"

Sir, there are millionaires who qualify for disability. I am an end stage kidney patient. When your kidneys are gone, you get to pass go and go directly to Medicare.

"Your allegation that doctors insist on certain drugs in order to get a "kick back" is ludicrous."

The hell it is. It is a FACT.

"Doctor fees are not causing the rising cost in healthcare."

How can you be so obtuse?

"Government intervention/involvement is the primary cause."

Everything is a conspiracy with you lately. I am billed a minimum of $225 per office visit to see a nurse practitioner who works for the specialist I am seeing. When I see my Doctor, I am billed $350 a pop. The Government does not set those rates. The medical provider does.

"Have you refused to see any specialist because he/she is not competent and in it only for the money?"

I have never claimed that any provider I have seen was incompetent, but I have "fired" several physicians for refusing to write me prescriptions that were not generic in nature.

And trust me, there are many physicians out there that push the "latest and the greatest medications," rather than to issue scripts for lower cost alternatives.

The only name brand meds I am taking are furnished to me free of charge through my research physician.

September 14, 2013 at 8:21 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Good one Fairmon, right on. Al, thinks because the doctor took an oath they have no right to make a living."

That's utter B.S and you know it. There is a vast difference between earning a living and raking in millions per year any way they can do it.

"He claims he took no oath so it is ok for him to not give a free car to someone who really needs to get a job."

I've worked very hard for all that I have. No one gave me a thing. I don't ever brag about anything I do that would ever be considered charitable, but let's suffice it to say that I follow the example of Jesus routinely.

"He doesn't take it in to consideration the doctor spent tens of thousands of dollars getting that degree and years as an intern and resident to become a doctor. He has the socialist mentality."

What would you call giving away a free car to someone with a hard luck story?

If I were to give away free cars to everyone who wanders on my lot with a sad story, I would have nothing to sell in a month.

I do my share to assist those in need when I am absolutely convinced that someone is being 100% truthful about their needs, but the details are between myself, those whom are assisted, and the man upstairs.

The trick is to learn how to spot the con artists, and my dear, they are out there every single day trying to deprive people of what little they have.

I could fill a book writing about the people who have tried to swindle me, just within the last two years.

September 14, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "2 years ago my son was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the lung in June. Parents are not supposed to out live their children."

Your loss is much more recent than my own. I am also a parent who outlived a child, 35 years ago.

Please accept my heartfelt condolences for your loss.

September 14, 2013 at 8:49 p.m.
rick1 said...
September 14, 2013 at 8:54 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Alpo,

The numbers you state are the biggest misconception put forth by proponents of the bill which is now law. Are you suggesting that the metallic designations of the plan are not affected by cost to the insured? It is very nice that the administration suggests that if you earn x amount of dollars you cannot be charged more than a certain % of your income.

The premium I stated are exactly what you published as Obamacare premiums. @ $1,200 per year. Now the metallic designations for % of services covered is a different story.

A bronze plan is covered 60 percent A silver plan is covered 70 percent A gold plan is covered 80 percent A platinum plan is covered 90 percent

Insurers may also offer catastrophic-only coverage to eligible individuals, which would have higher cost-sharing than the standard Metallic plans.

The catastrophic- only may very well be the low end of what the proponents of the law are using for pushing the bill into law. The numbers I provided earlier are not going down. The 2014 premium costs will be equal to or greater than the numbers I posted today.

For the elderly that claim they paid for their Medicare I agree. You also paid for your Social Security but somehow the money was squandered and today we see the remaining baby boomers not yet covered footing the bill for todays benefits. These people came primarily from large families. With many having maybe one surviving parent collecting benefits if any, the amount contributed to support the system will never be able to continue in the future even though we as middle aged citizens pay a much higher % than the original entitlement contributors. It may very well be the ultimate Ponzi scheme much like government and teacher pension plans. The future isn't looking as bright as it once did. Thanks Corporate America.

September 14, 2013 at 9:26 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Alpo, The numbers you state are the biggest misconception put forth by proponents of the bill which is now law."

I fail to see any misconception.

"Are you suggesting that the metallic designations of the plan are not affected by cost to the insured? It is very nice that the administration suggests that if you earn x amount of dollars you cannot be charged more than a certain % of your income."

It's more than a suggestion. It is a fact.

"The premium I stated are exactly what you published as Obamacare premiums. @ $1,200 per year. Now the metallic designations for % of services covered is a different story."

Those designations represent the maximum out-of-pocket expenses that one is willing to weather, in order to save on premiums.

"A bronze plan is covered 60 percent A silver plan is covered 70 percent A gold plan is covered 80 percent A platinum plan is covered 90 percent"

Those are all approximates, but let's see where you are attempting to go with all this.

"Insurers may also offer catastrophic-only coverage to eligible individuals, which would have higher cost-sharing than the standard Metallic plans."

And? If one chooses to purchase a plan that only covers catastrophic losses, at a much lower premium, what's your objection?

"The catastrophic- only may very well be the low end of what the proponents of the law are using for pushing the bill into law."

Everyone will have a choice of plan they want to purchase for themselves and their family. If one can afford the small stuff and only desires to have catastrophic loss coverage, more power to them.

"The numbers I provided earlier are not going down. The 2014 premium costs will be equal to or greater than the numbers I posted today."

The figures you posted are pure bunk and in no manner reflective of what a young man, with the criteria you offered, will have to pay out of his own pocket for health care, starting January 1, 2014.

I demonstrated that such a young man will be able to have a fairly decent plan in force, for less than a hundred bucks a month.

In two weeks when those plans are for certain rolled out, let's be sure to revisit them in detail.

September 14, 2013 at 9:55 p.m.
alprova said...

"For the elderly that claim they paid for their Medicare I agree. You also paid for your Social Security but somehow the money was squandered and today we see the remaining baby boomers not yet covered footing the bill for todays benefits. These people came primarily from large families. With many having maybe one surviving parent collecting benefits if any, the amount contributed to support the system will never be able to continue in the future even though we as middle aged citizens pay a much higher % than the original entitlement contributors. It may very well be the ultimate Ponzi scheme much like government and teacher pension plans. The future isn't looking as bright as it once did. Thanks Corporate America."

Seems to me that the best answer to that problem is a bunch of ready-made taxpayers that can be used to prop up the system.

Legalize and start taxing in earnest, all currently illegal immigrants.

September 14, 2013 at 9:56 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

The trick is to learn how to spot the con artists, and my dear, they are out there every single day trying to deprive people of what little they have.

Very true alprova, many of them hold political office while others take advantage of government welfare programs. They will deprive you of a little or a lot.

September 14, 2013 at 10:42 p.m.
anniebelle said...

degage, yes, I remember how all the GOPer's laughed when Al Gore dare make the suggestion that we keep Medicare/Social Security funds in a lock box. You just stated the reason why that was necessary.

September 15, 2013 at 5:37 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

anniebelle,

You are infantile in your thinking to assume the Republicans are to blame for the SS fiasco we are facing.

"A lot of people speak of those IOUs as if they can be pulled out and exchanged for money to pay benefit checks. They can’t. As the Clinton administration budget of 2000 explained, the securities in the Trust Fund ‘do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Those special-issue bonds can only be redeemed by raising taxes, cutting spending elsewhere, or borrowing — exactly what the government would have to do if the Trust Fund didn’t exist. The Trust Fund, said the Clinton budget message, ‘does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government’s ability to pay benefits.

On December 20, distinguished business columnist, Allan Sloan, seven-time winner of the prestigious Loeb award, business journalism’s highest honor, called the trust fund “a mirage” in his Washington Post column. In the column, titled, “New tax law reveals the mirage of the Social Security trust fund,” Sloan wrote:

My problem with the trust fund is that it’s a snare and a delusion for people who think that it makes Social Security financially sound. It doesn’t do that, because having government IOUs in a government trust fund doesn’t make it any easier for the government to cover Social Security’s cash shortfalls than it would be if there were no trust fund.

Here is another treasure many may not be aware of. Politicians tell us Social Security is just fine and the reason for it is obvious. It isn't!!! As Chet would say,,, HaHAHAHAHAHAhahahaHAhaHa. Did I spell that right Chet ole boy?

"In a 1960 ruling by the United States Supreme Court, the court ruled that nobody has a “contractual earned right“ to Social Security benefits. Section 1104 of the 1935 Social Security Act specifically states, “The right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this Act is hereby reserved to the Congress.” According to the above strong language, Congress could do whatever it wanted to do with regard to changing or even eliminating Social Security.

Early on, some did not take the language seriously because they thought it was probably unconstitutional. However, in 1960, in the case of Fleming v. Nestor, the Supreme Court upheld the denial of benefits to Nestor, even though he had contributed to the program for 19 years and was already receiving benefits In its ruling, the Supreme Court established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits “is not a contractual right.” As a result of the 1960 Supreme Court ruling, the future of Social Security is totally in the hands of Congress and the President. They have the legal authority to amend any and all parts of the Social Security Act, as well as the authority to either increase or decrease Social Security benefits.

September 15, 2013 at 10:27 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Alpo,

These so called Ready Made Taxpayers could never replace the earning power of the current and future baby boomers and the weekly contributions they have made, continue to make to the system. As I stated baby boomers came from very large families and we have up to six siblings paying into a system that supports one and in some case 2 parents collecting benefits. They did not have families anywhere near that size so do the math. Also consider in the last 20 years we have extended life expectancy so the drain will become greater as time goes on. Please explain how Hector, Jose, & Jesus are supposed to financially support these people as they rapidly enter the entitlement age when they arrived as migrant and menial labor workers being paid substandard wages. The older illegals will also become eligible for benefits without having contributed any money? It ain't happening pal. No matter how smart you think you are.

September 15, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss, I fail to see how it is that you will prevent the very thing you claim "ain't happening," 'cause it's only a matter of time before it will indeed happen, no matter how strongly you object to it.

September 15, 2013 at 8:15 p.m.
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