published Saturday, September 21st, 2013

SOS

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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PlainTruth said...

Straight from Democrat National Committee

September 21, 2013 at 12:23 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And as our boat sinks in the fiscal and policy floods of O'Romneycare and other unsustainable and unwise programs, the Democrats who want to exempt themselves from O'Romneycare are nowhere to be seen--not that GOP Congressional staff like it any better for themselves, and not that big biz wants health insurance individualized as GOP conservatives are proposing.

September 21, 2013 at 12:37 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

The people in the sinking boat are obviously Fleabaggers and especially the woman in the rear bailing out a boat (the USGB Obama) that is already swamped.

The sign from the cutter is simply commentary on the status of the current administration.

Obama is in the bow trying to knock a hole in that end of the boat to let the water out.

September 21, 2013 at 1:14 a.m.
fairmon said...

Have we evolved to an Ineptocracy? A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by those least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services paid for with the wealth confiscated from a diminishing number of producers.

September 21, 2013 at 6:51 a.m.
fairmon said...

Does this SOS signal Send Our Supplies. The question may be why did they knock a hole in their own boat?

September 21, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

Give them a big new boat and watch them wreck it.

September 21, 2013 at 6:57 a.m.
conservative said...

Excellent fairmon!

Why do people knock a hole in their own boat?

Why do people spend and go in debt?

Why do people people ruin their body with drugs and alcohol?

Why do people refuse to learn in school?

Why do people kill each other?

Why do people steal?

Why do people........?

September 21, 2013 at 7:05 a.m.
jesse said...

The rescue boat sign should read "S.O.L."!!

September 21, 2013 at 7:21 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

In the sinking boat are, left to right, Barrack Hussein Obama, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi. Not pictured are liberals from the Democrat-controlled senate singing "Nearer My God to Thee."

September 21, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Conservative's first question is obviously directed at himself and his fellow reds. (It is interesting how a term that originally referred to communist/Marxist subversive treachery now refers to treachery of a home-grown sort. As the lady said, 'who'd a thunk it?')

I guess I should ask, are these questions conservative poses theological or sociological?

September 21, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.
tifosi said...

Next election, the GOP will lose the House. Americans are growing tired of GOP games at America's expense.

September 21, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Fairmon 6:51. *

Jesse 7:21, *

September 21, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Make that * for both

September 21, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

* that's 5 stars dang it

September 21, 2013 at 8:45 a.m.
limric said...

Another Clay Bennett classic. Nice one.

Jesse said..."The rescue boat sign should read "S.O.L."!!

He he, you're right Jesse. But I think a more fitting sign would read - FU.

September 21, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
jesse said...

Tifosi? you may be right BUT ya know what? It don't make a shat who the "Majority"is ,They are ALL a bunch of self serving ,incompetent arzholes who ,once elected keep running on the public dime!Gitting IN office is the challenge after that you get a free ride!

September 21, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
jesse said...

Well limric,i was tryin to be as nice as i could!

Here lately my rants are drawing some serious heat!

I got a KUNG FU dude gittin ready to look me up!

Thinkin about movin to Montana!!

September 21, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
alprova said...

It's extremely easy to see where most of the commentators are coming from, thus far this morning.

Everything is rocking along just fine for them this morning, so their hearts have not an ounce of compassion for people who are struggling to make ends meet.

Thus is the typical mindset of the modern day Republican, most Libertarians, and their cheerleaders.

In ten days, President Obama's legacy will be born. Obamacare will be rolled out once and for all for the nation to get its first glimpse of the most controversial piece of legislation to have come down the pike since those from the 1930's.

This week, Republicans are working feverishly to try and stop it by any means necessary. More sensible Republicans are publicly denouncing these last minute efforts to hold ObamaCare hostage. Those involved will not succeed. Political reputations will be tarnished forever.

I used to believe that the Republicans who were avidly opposed to ObamaCare, were opposed to it because they truly believed that ObamaCare would not work.

I no longer believe that.

Anti-Obama Republicans are desperate because they are fearful that ObamaCare will work and if it does, what will the fallout be? The Republican Party is filled with politicians who are all about to go over a cliff. They are desperately clutching onto little pieces of grass, hoping against all hope that they will not fall.

You know it's bad when you have the likes of Karl Rove issuing warnings to Republicans not to proceed with an attempt to threaten to shut down portions of the Government as a bargaining tool for votes to defund ObamaCare.

The Republican Party is coming apart at the seams.

September 21, 2013 at 9:28 a.m.
jesse said...

Al, first off i'm NOT sayin the repub's have it right BUT somewhere down the line ya gotta say "We've done ALL we can do!"We cannot sustain the growth in public wellfare!It's just not doable!

September 21, 2013 at 9:34 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

No Alpy, the R's are standing on principle. The majority of americans don't favor the monstrosity that is Obamacare. They (as you say) truly believe it won't work. Hell, all the preliminary indicators show it not working. You follow the D talking points....R's want granny to die, dirty water, etc ad nauseam. Do you own thinking for a change.

September 21, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
caddy said...

Clay, your toons are not working, just as your logic isn't working, just like our country isn't working. next toon: raising the ETOH blood Alcohol limit to solve the drunk driving problem. Same logic used to solve our debt ceiling.

Logic truly is not your strong suit. Neither is truth & reality.

September 21, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
alprova said...

Sir, I do my own thinking all the time. The culminations of my thoughts can be found in the archives of this forum.

Democratic talking points, as you refer to them, are unmitigated truths. Republicans have never been stewards of the environment. They care nothing for the poor, the elderly, or anyone else who may not have a substantial bank account, and in fact they have proven lately, that they despise such people.

I know full and well that some of the same people who denounce ObamaCare, who have been flapping their wings for two years about it, are among the same people who believe that the President was born in Kenya.

jesse, it's a undeniable truth that any society can be evaluated by the way they treat their poorest people.

You might feel that we have done enough,but I say that as a nation that has among the world's richest people, we haven't begun to scratch the surface, in terms of what we could do.

I will never support any notion that anyone who is able to fend for themselves, who refuses to do so, deserves an ounce of support, but all to often, when dollars are being contemplated, it is the poor who become the sacrificial lambs every time.

September 21, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Clay has again got it all wrong and drifted into his alter fantasy land thinking he saw water in the boat when it was just a mirage on a hot day in his head!

You see the boat has always been self bailing. It didn't come with oars because using them would require effort and thought as to how one will survive. We are SOL on thinking this group will ever be expected to function at such an elevated level surviving by creating solutions to their own problems. Without expectations the group has no desire to change. They simply continue to float on the Good Ship Lollipop never wanting for any more than the handout they are given monthly.

When unemployment benefits were cut I did not hear Clay and his faithful crying foul. But the generational recipients of a government hand out meant to help people temporarily has become a lifestyle and burden to the American taxpayer. Helping people who are in need is the right thing to do. Helping people so they do not ever have to help themselves is simply wrong for them and the system.

This same group of Clay and the like minded are the ones who shout let the illegals in the country. They will do jobs Americans will not. Well folks, perhaps it is time to rearrange your priorities of thought and expect every American to do their best to contribute something to their daily needs unless they truly are unable to do for themselves. If we expect people to work hard they just may. The babble of we will have more crime and hospitals will be overwhelmed is simply nonsense. What the people on the news should be saying is that everyone is expected to work. That ethic is what is missing from society. Why isn't our great leader Obama delivering this message personally? He gets on TV and babbles about his imaginary son but has no time to deal with reality? Hard work is the drug that will cure the folks who suffer from the disease we have given them. Poverty and low expectations. That should be the message from a leader of this great nation. Of course in order to have such a message delivered to the people we would have to first find a leader. Rise up, be cured and flourish. There is no better feeling in the world than the accomplishments that come from working hard. It's time PRIDE returned to America.

Oh,You may be wondering how the bailing bucket found its way into the Good Ship Lollipop. You see it was never intended to be used for such menial labor but to collect contributions from those who have decided to redistribute wealth. And not just any wealth but simply your wealth. The majority of wealthy people give to charity not because they are givers, they simply have an accountant that points out that they can pay the government at tax time or simply give it away. These people do not fill the collection buckets of government though. You do through your constant contributions to our tax system. Rest assured, the rich do not stay wealthy by giving money away. It is exactly the opposite.

September 21, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

And lastly, the SOS sign the nice gentleman is holding up seems to be misinterpreted by many. What the man is saying with his SOS sign is, "SAIL ON SUCKERS"

September 21, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.
jesse said...

Actually what S.O.S. Means is "SAME OLE SHAT"!PERIOT!

September 21, 2013 at 10:08 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

I just figured it out: alkarma is going through menopause.

September 21, 2013 at 10:47 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Alpo

Democratic talking points are not unmitigated truths. Where is your great Al Gore and his saving of the planet? How many of his Carbon Credits have you purchased? Oh none, that's right. Mr. Gore had to purchase them all himself because he is such a fossil fuel guzzler. Where are all the starving polar bears and their floating carcasses. Why is polar ice regenerating? Why,Why,Why??? Why is it the so called environmental democrats allow corporate America to infest and pollute the Asian countries giving of all countries China, free trading status? Democrats have seen the effects of uncontrolled irresponsible manufacturing in this country unless they live under rocks, but that still doesn't explain it because the pollution collects there right from the start. Perhaps an Awareness Course would help? So you see Alpo, democrats really could care less about the condition of the planet unless there is a profit to be made from some sensational BS they are trying to sell. It appears Nobel Peace Prizes are not quite the noble thing they once were. And what a fantastic job BHO has done bringing peace to the world with his open arm gestures that earned him his! It appears the group handing out these wonderful PRIZES are in direct competition with the Cracker Jack Box. Nothing more,,,,,,, HOW SAD!!!

September 21, 2013 at 10:52 a.m.
degage said...

billionaire George Soros is marrying a 42 year old today, with a large party of his NEW WORLD ORDER friends including rich bi--- Nancy Pelosi. Georgie is Obamas buddy and he is all for global governance.

September 21, 2013 at 10:53 a.m.
limric said...

Alprova,

You make an excellent point: ”Anti-Obama Republicans are desperate because they are fearful that ObamaCare will work and if it does, what will the fallout be”?

I agree - BUT. The Tea Party is counting on "Plan 9 From Outer Space". Don’t forget -- many in the Tea Party claimed that Democrats were equally as guilty as Bush’s rush to war in Iraq.

Thusly...

I think I can say with a fair bit of confidence that if the ACA is successful, The Tea Party will try to take ownership of it. In much the same way they demanded that getting Osama bin Laden was purely the result of Bush’s “we don’t torture” - torture policies. They will repeat over and over, and deafeningly that it was Romney who started the whole health care reform thing; that it wasn't that The Tea Party opposed the ACA per se. but just didn’t agree with its funding. Or something like that.

Bank on it!

September 21, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.
jesse said...

hey joe puiltzer ? We still don't know who you are? Ya gonna stand up or run?

September 21, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
nucanuck said...

My memory is getting dim.

The way I remember it, we installed a social safety net about half a century ago and taxed ourselves enough to pay for it. Then in the 1980s we began to cut taxes without cutting spending. We quickly became a debtor nation. That debt acted as an economic stimulus and we thought that we were pretty smart because our economy seemed to be humming. We kept piling on more debt. We ramped up military spending without paying for that either, but by increasing the money supply a bit each and every year, we could pay the interest on the new debt "for free". We were so smart...or maybe, now in retrospect we weren't smart at all.

Fast forward to today and we have a few who benefited most from the tax cuts and banked their new found wealth while the rest began to struggle to pay their bills. We have an economy in complete disarray. Those who need coverage from a social contract are now considered slackers who just aren't trying and should somehow just disappear.

We are a nation adrift.

In our new world, cruise missiles, drones, and surveillance take spending priority over the basic needs of people in desperate straits. We have taken the disposable society to it's logical conclusion, disposable people!

Am I remembering all of that correctly? Somehow that doesn't seem fair. We wouldn't do that, would we?

September 21, 2013 at 11:27 a.m.
jesse said...

HEY Nucanuk! DIM is the definitive word!#1 It was about 75 years ago#2 It got us started down this road!#3 Then along came L.B. J.nuff said!!

September 21, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
alprova said...

joepulitzer wrote: "I just figured it out: alkarma is going through menopause."

I'm honored that you feel the need to pipe up with some negative response every time I post. You apparently are infatuated with me, even though I have no clue who you are.

I'm sorry to further disappoint you, but I am happily married, and straight as an arrow.

You'll find your true love someday, if you keep trying.

September 21, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
jesse said...

Limric! The chances that ACA will succeed are Slim to none!

I been thinkin you was one of them rational thinkers!Gonna have to rethink that!All it will do over the next 30 years is DRAG our ass even deeper into the abyss!

September 21, 2013 at 11:49 a.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Alpo, Democratic talking points are not unmitigated truths. Where is your great Al Gore and his saving of the planet? How many of his Carbon Credits have you purchased? Oh none, that's right. Mr. Gore had to purchase them all himself because he is such a fossil fuel guzzler. "

Sir, you don't see any Democrat supporters in this forum writing about carbon credits, nor do any of us defend Al Gore. I'm well aware that the man is a hypocrite.

"Where are all the starving polar bears and their floating carcasses. Why is polar ice regenerating? Why,Why,Why???"

One good year of ice retention is not any indication that climate change is not a problem. Talk to me in 20 years if the trend continues.

"Why is it the so called environmental democrats allow corporate America to infest and pollute the Asian countries giving of all countries China, free trading status?"

Allow? What could you possible mean by that? Since when are politicians granted any authority to prevent anyone from establishing businesses in other nations?

"So you see Alpo, democrats really could care less about the condition of the planet unless there is a profit to be made from some sensational BS they are trying to sell."

Al Gore does not represent all people who are environmentally concious. Al Gore is in it for the money, no question, but he's out on a limb all on his own.

Don't size everyone who does care about the Earth, just because his standards are skewed.

September 21, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.
limric said...

Nucanuck ponders,

"Am I remembering all of that correctly"? Mmm, yea pretty much.

Jesse "The chances that ACA will succeed are Slim to none"!

Why won't it work Jesse?

As far as dragging us into the abyss, corporate welfare, hideous free trade policies, 'Citizens United' and an out of control EIC (Enemy Industrial Complex) have already taken care of that.

Have you forgotten the Bankster bailouts already?

September 21, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
delmar said...
September 21, 2013 at noon
nucanuck said...

Hey jesse,

We can probably agree that LBJ is in the running for worst President ever. He's one who beat our justice and prison system out of the pleasure of his company.

But don't you have an opinion on when and why we stopped paying our bills?

September 21, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

It wasn't the social safety nets nor LBJ's Great Society that got us "started down this road." I find it interesting that people so critical of those programs are quick to lay the blame on them and them alone for our economic woes but completely turn a blind eye to the massive corporate welfare that has amounted to much more than has been spent on things like food stamps and welfare for the poor over the decades. Not to mention the obscene waste in our bloated military budget, where we spend billions upon billions for weapons we do not need and most likely will never even use, and where we continue to maintain troops in places in the world where they are not needed in any way. Every dollar spent on food stamps or welfare goes right back into the economy, while the money squandered by giving massive tax breaks and subsidies to corporations is never redeemed. The super-rich and big business do not create jobs, at least not decent paying jobs, they only invest their money in ways that fatten their personal bank accounts and then they pay less in capital gains taxes than working/middle class folks do on income tax.

As for the ACA being around for 30 years...it won't. At least not in the form that we know it. It will have to morph into universal coverage/single payer, something like Medicare-for-all. The problem with Obamacare is that it still gives too much power to the private insurance companies. It was merely a Band-Aid on a bleeding artery. The entire system needs to be revamped. There are some things that should not be treated as commodities bought and sold on the free market, and health insurance is one of them. It would be okay to have private health insurance plans, for those willing and able to pay extra, above and beyond comprehensive coverage for all citizens. But there needs to be something in place for every American that is not based on income or employment status.

September 21, 2013 at 12:12 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ricky Roo: Single payer...that's been the goal all along,l no?

September 21, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Single payer wins by default. So far, no other system has been able to provide as much for as little cost.

September 21, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nuc, how do you figure that?

September 21, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Two Democratic members of the House voted with Republicans Friday to defund Obamacare and fund the government until the end of the year: Utah Rep. Jim Matheson and North Carolina Rep. Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for showing some huevos.

September 21, 2013 at 1:23 p.m.
fairmon said...

Most republican politicians are not opposed to Obama care or they would be issuing the long list of additional taxes it includes to be paid by those with lower incomes. They would be itemizing the reduced Medicare coverage and the OMB estimate of increased premiums and copays. How many members of congress opposed the exception to the law in order to provide a subsidy for them and their staff at a cost of around $12,000 per year per participant to tax payers? Republicans are playing a dangerous political game by forcing democrats to openly and by name support funding it over the house proposal not to. It will implode and it will be hated by most Americans but not in time for republicans to gain votes.

Democrats sold out to large insurance and pharmaceutical companies who authored much of the bill. Those entities gain wealth through the exchanges or a single payer system that also will not work as some suggest. How much healthcare tax revenue will 16,000 or more new IRS agents generate? There is a clue there for those thinking past todays feel good get it free here message.

Obama gets and seeks a lot of credit but he is only a pawn in the game. I don't dislike or like him but I do think he is a PPP and really has not a clue what to do. His background results in him surrounding himself with people from the academic and political world with very few from the difficult business world. Those with business acumen once they are exposed to the administration often resign rather quickly. Neither party appears to be prepared to do anything different in the future.

September 21, 2013 at 1:26 p.m.
joneses said...

Another bennett lie that only a fool would agree with.

September 21, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Dearest Alpo,

Please read your own writing and then lecture me one more time about not lumping all people of a certain group into the same pile,,,,

You wrote,,,

"Democratic talking points, as you refer to them, are unmitigated truths. Republicans have never been stewards of the environment. They care nothing for the poor, the elderly, or anyone else who may not have a substantial bank account, and in fact they have proven lately, that they despise such people."

Do you sort of have a clue of what I am getting at,,, even a little bit?

September 21, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Everything is rocking along just fine for them this morning, so their hearts have not an ounce of compassion for people who are struggling to make ends meet.

alpro...There is compassion galore but not for having government confiscate from some, skim off enough to support their expensive habits then distribute it with no attempt to distinguish those truly needy from those abusing and using the system. You are right if you think I have no compassion for those knocking a hole in their own boat. Why should I have compassion for some punk kid that thinks wearing his hat crooked and showing his crack is cool, or a woman pumping out kids like a pez machine for the money. I have compassion for children and the truly disabled but those blowing their opportunity can do without and should be allowed to get hungry and low enough to work. The government is the world's worst enabler of bad behavior.

September 21, 2013 at 1:39 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

whatthefuss. He does not. Partisan hacks can't see any other POV.

September 21, 2013 at 1:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

fairmon: much too much common sense for the left to ever accept.

September 21, 2013 at 1:44 p.m.
soakya said...

compassion is not defined by using the government to take from some to give to others, that's called stealing.

September 21, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
fairmon said...

Why is something considered so wonderful that doesn't decrease the number of uninsured but only changes the names? The OMB predicts the number uninsured may actually increase. Go figure. Anyone know who actually authored, not sponsored but wrote, the bill? I assume most people know it is not completed and the volume of pages is growing daily and that congress has again abdicated their responsibility by empowering others to make decisions and write the regulations without further review and approval by congress? Is it a train wreck?

September 21, 2013 at 1:51 p.m.
fairmon said...

Look at the pic and the unintended message. No oar in the water, one oar allowed to float away, just holding the bucket without making an effort. The one person with a sign and a demanding scowl on his face essentially saying we broke our boat now we want on yours.

September 21, 2013 at 1:57 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

limric,

you wrote,,,

"I agree - BUT. The Tea Party is counting on "Plan 9 From Outer Space". Don’t forget -- many in the Tea Party claimed that Democrats were equally as guilty as Bush’s rush to war in Iraq."

Now are you claiming Democrats were not foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs to attack before and after 9/11?

Please click and watch the video below and explain just what it is you are attempting to say. Please, no more crazy talk,,, although the thing that you're hearing is only the sound of the low spark of high heeled boys,,,

Please pay special attention,, "ATTENTION" to the segment starting at 2:50. The truth shall set you free, or you can continue to live in a delusional state but please remember, if you don't get help at Moccasin Bend Mental Health Institute, please get help somewhere!

http://youtu.be/iSwSDvgw5Uc

September 21, 2013 at 1:59 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

You Bozo. The Democrats gave them poor folks a leaky boat. They wouldn't be in this situation if they didn't have help getting there, and the Democrats have them sitting waiting for help instead of helping themselves.

The US welfare state is unsustainable. If you confiscated every dollar from "rich" people and gave it all away, the poor would be back in the same situation in short order.

When I was a kid, and my parents drove through the "bad" parts of town, here in Chattanooga, I recognized those parts of town as being very much like the section of Atlanta we moved away from. What was the difference? My father worked hard and moved up, making himself more valuable as he did. The only thing that ever held him back was his own prejudice, and stubbornness.

I learned from his successes, and from his setbacks, and figured out that working hard and doing things I did not necessarily like for a few years (like going to a hard college and sticking with it) would pay off.

A lot of poor people are already stuck in place by bad decisions. The ones who could move up by working hard have no incentive to do so. The ones who can raise themselves up without prodding have already done so.

My grandfather was a sharecropper in Alabama. My parents did not have money to go to school, but they made sure I got the opportunity. That's how it works. Government giveaways that attempted to shortcut the step from poverty to middle class by giving benefits to the lazy have only created more lazy people. When the bubble busted in 2008, it was too late. That was a tipping point.

People have got to get out and improve their job skills so they can support themselves and their families. That's why the Hispanic populations are growing, and so is their standard of living. They appreciate the need to work for what they get.

September 21, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

And, yeah, we need reform that forces corporations and successful companies to pour investment back into the job force and our own economy. We need a tax structure that rewards job creators in a meaningful (read "profitable") way. Sorry. That's how it goes.

September 21, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

Single payer exists in most developed places around the world and despite it's faults, it certainly out-performs US health care by covering everyone and generally costing 40-60% less.

Single payer may not cost that much less in the US because of the sick obese culture, but that is another issue.

September 21, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nuc. thanks

September 21, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Dearest Alpo, Please read your own writing and then lecture me one more time about not lumping all people of a certain group into the same pile,,,,"

My kind Sir, you attempted to define all Democrats due to the actions of one man.

Now the difference between my generalization when compared to yours, are the sheer number of people involved of the same mindset.

Here's a challenge for you; Can you name one Republican politician who can also be called an environmentlist, or who has voted against their fellow Republicans in opposing environmental legislation?

I think my generalization is quite solid.

Your generalization is not rooted in reality.

I've read very little people defend Al Gore.

Perhaps you should have used a different example for your generalization.

September 21, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Bwahahaha. ALPO says his generalizations more valid than what thefusses generalizations. Now that's funny right there.

September 21, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Can you name one Republican politician who can also be called an environmentlist, or who has voted against their fellow Republicans in opposing environmental legislation?

alprova...can you name one meaningful scientifically conclusive legislation republicans have opposed? Can you name one democrat that has opposed any "feel good" special interest environmental regulation that had an adverse impact on jobs? Obviously both parties have abdicated their responsibility by allowing giving some new government employee with no real world experience the authority to issue or modify regulations.

September 21, 2013 at 4:43 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Alpo,

You wrote,

" Republicans have never been stewards of the environment."

Then you go on claiming your dog is bigger than mine? You are so sexy when you get mad. No wonder your wife loves you so much.

The flavor of the day with Democrats back in the day was Al Gore and the talking points still remain that the Democrats alone are the saviors of our planet. But it was Bill & Al that were at the helm giving China Free Trading Status. Yes business can manufacture wherever they wish was your argument. I love when your running in the rain with your blinders on. Also sssoooo sexy. But they never would be polluting Chinas,{The Worlds} air & water if corporations were not allowed to export from the nation. You claim to be a smart man so why is it so hard for you to add 2+2. Use your fingers. No one here will know. Democrats were falling all over Al Gore just like they are falling at the feet of our current messiah BHO. It simply makes me wonder if Democrats are as smart as they tell us they are.

But of course you and the voices in your head are rooted in reality as you have pointed out, as mine are transmitted through my Tin Foil Hat. Gotta go and watch more Faux news. How else could I possibly keep up with you geniuses'. Love you long time Alpo!!!

One more thing, if the economic recovery is going so well and the jobless rate continues to go down how come so many people are buying at your Buy Here Pay Here lot since Barry has been in office?

September 21, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.
absolutetruth said...

LIBERALS ARE DESTROYING THE UNITED STATES..NO BORDERS, CONDONING ALL FORMS OF IMMORAL BEHAVIOR. THROWING OUR CREATOR OUT OF THE COUNTRY, SUPPORTING INFANTICIDE AND DRUG USE, ,,EVERY THING A LIBERAL BELIEVES IN IS DETRIMENTAL TO A HEALTHY SOCIETY AND THEIR COMMUNIST DREAMS ARE CANCER TO OUR ONCE GREAT NATION molon labe

September 21, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.
conservative said...

Well I am ignorant of molon labe but the truth is the truth no matter who speaks it.

Liberals/Atheists are the bane of our society and that is the truth.

September 21, 2013 at 7:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

CONman: Liberals maybe. Atheists not so much.

September 21, 2013 at 10:38 p.m.
alprova said...

Limric, as usual, you are a man who takes a handoff of a rational thought and you drive the point home and you score a touchdown every single time.

Your 11:17 post was a gem, and it will be fun watching to see if it will indeed come to pass.

September 21, 2013 at 10:49 p.m.
alprova said...

whatsthefuss wrote: "Then you go on claiming your dog is bigger than mine? You are so sexy when you get mad. No wonder your wife loves you so much."

Who's mad? It's certainly not me.

"The flavor of the day with Democrats back in the day was Al Gore and the talking points still remain that the Democrats alone are the saviors of our planet."

Clearly, the voting records on environmental legislation prove my point more than adequately.

"But it was Bill & Al that were at the helm giving China Free Trading Status."

Sir, I believe you will find that China's Most Favored Nation status was made permanent on December 27, 2001, when George Walker Bush was President, and it was passed when the House was dominated by Republicans and the Senate had an equal number of Republicans to Democrats (50-50).

The House voted 237-197 for passage of the Amendment to to terminate the application of Title IV of the Trade Act of 1974 to China upon China's accession to the World Trade Organization.

The Senate approved the measure with an 83-15 vote as well.

You are totally wrong to pin China's free trade status on Democrats.

"Yes business can manufacture wherever they wish was your argument. I love when your running in the rain with your blinders on. Also sssoooo sexy."

I believe my point was to refute your assertion that Democrats had "allowed" businesses to pollute elsewhere. The charge you made was nothing short of silly.

"But they never would be polluting Chinas,{The Worlds} air & water if corporations were not allowed to export from the nation."

But of course, I suppose that people who feel that the United States should be the world's Police Department are in favor of telling the rest of the world what they are allowed and not allowed to do economically as well.

"Democrats were falling all over Al Gore just like they are falling at the feet of our current messiah BHO. It simply makes me wonder if Democrats are as smart as they tell us they are."

I'm sure that the next major election will be a leading indicator how much Republicans are viewed for their particular wisdoms.

"One more thing, if the economic recovery is going so well and the jobless rate continues to go down how come so many people are buying at your Buy Here Pay Here lot since Barry has been in office?"

Perhaps it is because so many people have lost their favorable credit ratings due to the economic collapses engineered by three now defunct Republicans, who introduced a now infamous bill known as Graham-Leach-Blilely.

September 21, 2013 at 11:45 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, you are mistaken Clinton signed the free trade agreement with China into law.

"Today we take a major step toward China's entry into the World Trade Organization and a major step toward answering some of the central challenges of this new century," Clinton said in a bipartisan White House ceremony Tuesday afternoon.

"Trade with China will not only extend our nation's unprecedented economic growth, it offers us a chance to help shape the future of the world's most prosperous nation and to reaffirm our own global leadership for peace and prosperity."

http://premium.asia.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/10/10/clinton.pntr/index.html

September 22, 2013 at 12:13 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted Perhaps it is because so many people have lost their favorable credit ratings due to the economic collapses engineered by three now defunct Republicans, who introduced a now infamous bill known as Graham-Leach-Blilely.

Clinton' statement on signing this bill:

Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This historic legislation will modernize our financial services laws, stimulating greater innovation and competition in the financial services industry. America's consumers, our communities, and the economy will reap the benefits of this Act.

Beginning with the introduction of an Administration-sponsored bill in 1997, my Administration has worked vigorously to produce financial services legislation that would not only spur greater competition, but also protect the rights of consumers and guarantee that expanded financial services firms would meet the needs of America's underserved communities. Passage of this legislation by an overwhelming, bipartisan majority of the Congress suggests that we have met that goal.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=56922#ixzz2fakldRk8

September 22, 2013 at 12:17 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "alprova...can you name one meaningful scientifically conclusive legislation republicans have opposed?"

I can name several, but one of the most recent examples occurred in 2008, and I'm betting that you've never heard of it.

The Bruce Vento Ban Asbestos and Prevent Mesothelioma Act of 2007, was introduced by Democratic Representative Betty McCollum of Minnesota. The Bill had 58 co-sponsors, each and every one of them Democrats.

The bill was to have required the EPA to establish a plan to increase awareness of the dangers posed by asbestos-containing materials and products and contaminants in homes and workplaces, provide information to and encourage participation in research and treatment endeavors by asbestos-related disease patients and their families and front-line health care providers, encourage health care providers and researchers to provide to patients and their families information relating to research, diagnostic, and clinical treatments relating to asbestos.

Now science concluded three decades ago that asbestos was a very bad product, which at the time was used in products ranging from brake pads on automobiles to insulation and wall materials used in buildings.

The above bill never made it to the floor of Congress.

"Can you name one democrat that has opposed any "feel good" special interest environmental regulation that had an adverse impact on jobs?"

That would all depend on whether or not the job in question posed a risk to the safety and health of the individuals who performed such jobs.

I know of no legislation ever introduced and passed that was introduced simply because it "felt good" to do it.

I'm quite sure that at one time coal miners were a dime a dozen in this nation. When they were unable to breathe any longer due a chest full of coal dust, they were "retired" and replaced. If a mine collapse occurred, no problem. Just fill end what is left with dirt and dig another mine.

Every new regulation born is in response to egregious violations of standards that have cost people their lives or their livelihoods.

"Obviously both parties have abdicated their responsibility by allowing giving some new government employee with no real world experience the authority to issue or modify regulations."

Obviously, the most critical people of such regulations have no real world experience digging in the trenches.

I liken your views of things only in terms of dollars and cents. That may be your place, and you might well have earned it, but you forget that those who are protected by the Government are just as human as you are, and their lives are equally as important to those who depend on them for their economic support as yours is.

September 22, 2013 at 12:20 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, you are mistaken Clinton signed the free trade agreement with China into law."

Read what I wrote. China was granted permanent Most Favored Nation status on the date I cited, which was on December 27, 2001. The bill was passed by a Republican dominated House and only 15 out of 100 Senators opposed it.

If the Republicans or GWB had had any problem with free trade with China, they had nearly a year to overturn it. They did not.

A majority of Republicans voted for it and they rubber stamped it as well a year later, when the Congressional numbers had only change by adding only one more Republican to the House after the 2000 elections.

The House had 222 Republicans and 210 Democrats. The Senate was 50-50. The final votes on granting China free trade were 237-197 in the House and 83-15 in the Senate.

No one can pin that on just Democrats.

September 22, 2013 at 12:33 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Clinton' statement on signing this bill: Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This historic legislation will modernize our financial services laws, stimulating greater innovation and competition in the financial services industry. America's consumers, our communities, and the economy will reap the benefits of this Act. (blah, blah, blah.)"

Sir, I have cited many times that Clinton had no choice but to sign that legislation, as it was passed with a veto proof majority.

Th House passed it 362-57 and the Senate passed it 90-8.

What would the nation have thought of a President who would have made a public statement something to the tune of;

"It is with profound regret that I am forced to sign this bill into law. It was passed in error and I believe it will one day be responsible for a total collapse of all our financial institutions."

Bill Clinton got behind the bill when amendments were made to provide opportunities for more Americans to be able to buy homes. Those amendments to the CRA were NOT responsible for the housing bubble.

As I have also cited many times, Gramm-Leach-Blilely was responsible for the adevent of fly-by-night mortgage brokers, the commingling of funds between banks, insurance companies, and investment institutions, which DID blow hot air into the housing markets, and which did result in the collapse of most all of the financial institutions that failed.

September 22, 2013 at 12:46 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al, whatthefuss stated "But it was Bill & Al that were at the helm giving China Free Trading Status."

I read what you posted and you want to ignore the fact that Clinton signed into law the free trade agreement.

September 22, 2013 at 12:47 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al, we need our politicians to be more honest and if he really felt this was a bad bill that he had no choice but to sign he should say so. It is disingenuous to sit there years later when the consequences come out on how bad the bill is to then say I wished I hadn't signed it or I regret I was forced to sign it.

Clinton felt everyone had a right to own a home and The Clinton Administration forced banks to lower their lending standards so people who would not normally qualify for a loan were given loans. The Clinton Administration was also behind Fannie and Freddie purchasing those bad loans from banks.

We are never going to agree on this but Clinton was up to is neck in the housing crisis. Hey but like Hillary says what difference does it make now.

September 22, 2013 at 12:55 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "I read what you posted and you want to ignore the fact that Clinton signed into law the free trade agreement."

What's your point? It was not passed without the help of the Republicans in Congress. In fact, more Republicans were for it than were Democrats.

Bill Clinton signed it, and he even favored it's passage as well. He even campaigned Congress to get it done, but you and others want to pin it all on the Democrats and Clinton, while totally overlooking the the Republican involvement in China being awarded free trade status.

Let's examine the Congressional votes to see who is actually responsible for PNTR passing Congress.

In the Senate, 8 Democrats and 7 Republicans opposed allowing permanent Most Favored Nation status being given to China. That means that one more Republican voted for it than Democrats did.

The House vote was even more clear who favored free trade being awarded China.

The vote was 237-197.

164 Republicans voted in favor of free trade.

73 Democrats voted in favor of free trade.

57 Republicans voted against awarding China free trade status.

138 Democrats voted against awarding China free trade status.

2 Independents voted against awarding China free trade status.

Do you still want to pin free trade status on Clinton?

September 22, 2013 at 1:15 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Al, we need our politicians to be more honest and if he really felt this was a bad bill that he had no choice but to sign he should say so."

I truly can't recall any President making a public statement condemning any piece of legislation that he may have personally opposed, even when forced to sign it into law.

However, Bill Clinton did come on board in support of the legislation when portions of the CRA were amended, so you are correct in blaming him for some of the mess.

But as I have cited many times, the default rate of the sub-prime mortgages at their worst, was 6%. Sub-primes were 20% of the entire mortgage market. 6% of 20% of the entire mortgages written did not collapse the housing industry.

A combination of mortgage brokers, who wrote them with no oversight to the standards by banks who dumped them on Freddie and Fannie, which were then placed up as valid investments, are mostly responsible for the collapse. An additional factor were people engaged in house flipping, who found it easy to obtain low cost mortgages on multiple properties.

When the bottom fell out, people walked away from mortgages in which they had little to no equity involved, and the rest is history.

People who truly wanted to own their homes have raked and scraped to stay in them. Most of those who were able to purchase a home to live in, are still in them and paying their mortgages.

"It is disingenuous to sit there years later when the consequences come out on how bad the bill is to then say I wished I hadn't signed it or I regret I was forced to sign it."

Bill Clinton has expressed some remorse in not speaking out more about the bill. He liked helping more Americans find their way into home ownership, but he knows the legislation was also responsible largely for what eventually happened,

And, it is almost the exact same scenario that led to the Great Depression and the collapse of Wall Street in 1929.

"We are never going to agree on this but Clinton was up to is neck in the housing crisis. Hey but like Hillary says what difference does it make now."

Clinton signed the bill and he did help many Americans realize home ownership, but his part and support had very little to do with the housing collapse.

6% of 20% did not collapse an entire economy. There is a higher rate of default on credit cards throughout this nation every single year than those with sub-prime mortgages who defaulted between 2006-2009.

September 22, 2013 at 1:28 a.m.
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