published Tuesday, April 29th, 2014

Bennett Archive: Equality

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

83
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
fairmon said...

Or, they fail to use the opportunity to appreciate preferring to remain an adolescent with the government becoming the parent? All are born with the freedom to "pursue" life, liberty and happiness.

April 29, 2014 at 1:04 a.m.
fairmon said...

Redistribution through welfare attempts to assure life time equality. Our elected elite still don't understand how they are failing the American people by not maximizing opportunity.

For example: Pfizer's proposed purchase of AstraZeneca (AZN) is partly driven so Pfizer would relocate from New York City to the UK because of a more favorable tax situation.

This is not the only example of perverse incentives set up by our tax code. Apple is preparing for a $17 billion bond sale that will be used to fund their additional stock buyback program, which last week was increased from $60 billion to $90 billion. They have $150 billion in cash but most of it is overseas and repatriating and using that would cost them 35 percent in taxes. So, issue debt at 2 percent and avoid the 35 percent loss of capital?

By all means congress keep the business tax rates at 35 percent plus all the other fees and legislatively imposed unnecessary cost. Hello, if you reduce unnecessary cost and reduce taxes to that of Ireland and other growing economies they may reduce prices and wind up with increased domestic demand plus additional exports and having to hire people.

April 29, 2014 at 5:26 a.m.
conservative said...

Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists obviously have different ideas about equality than Conservatives.

For example, as a Conservative I would favor a flat federal income tax of around 15%. I strongly believe the productivity of this nation would soar if a wage earner could keep 85% of his earnings. The staff of the IRS would be miniscule in comparison to today's IRS.

We already have examples of flat taxes that work well. We have a flat sales tax where everyone pays the same rate. We have a flat tax on gasoline at the pump. We have a flat tax rate on property.

Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality.

April 29, 2014 at 8:09 a.m.
tifosi said...

Back that last statement with facts. Otherwise, you are a liar.

April 29, 2014 at 8:35 a.m.

Want equality?

Start taxing all churches, synagogues, mosques, all religious properties, and businesses, clergy, church employees, and everything else as a business and at the prevailing tax rates.

They should pay just like every other business.

The only problem is that some of those "clergy" will leave as their ministries won't be as profitable.

Don't worry about them. They'll move on to other businesses selling snake oil, sky hooks, ponzi schemes, worthless investments, magic bean nutritional supplements, phoney miracle cures, Fox News commentators, and other scams.

Just like they're doing now.

But they can and should be taxed.

April 29, 2014 at 8:51 a.m.
LibDem said...

"Demoncrats"!?

How's a poor cluck to deal with this cleverness?

April 29, 2014 at 9:24 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Back that last statement with facts. Otherwise, you are a liar."

ConMan and facts? When has that fool ever backed up anything with facts? I guarantee he is middle-class but keeps buying the whole "if you work harder, you too can become a multi-millionaire" line from the GOP. Therefore, since he is a Republican, he lumps himself in with the "job creators".

April 29, 2014 at 9:46 a.m.

"depreciate more than others" Yeah that's what's going on. Citizens of all races, blacks, whites, brown, etc., are all being downgraded and illegal aliens from Mexico are now super citizens and they're now more equal than everyone else.

April 29, 2014 at 10:35 a.m.

And their crimes are not crimes, they're acts of "love".

April 29, 2014 at 10:38 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists obviously have different ideas about equality than Conservatives."

Are you presenting an opinion or a statement of fact?

"For example, as a Conservative I would favor a flat federal income tax of around 15%."

Taxes should not be assessed on what one earns. Taxes should be assessed when one spends their income. That way, even those who earn nothing and who may be rich as the hills, pay taxes like everyone else.

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

But of course, no Democrat produces a thing. No Democrat works for a living. No Democrat owns a business or employs anyone.

Only Conservatives do...right?

You're an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 10:54 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Connie wrote: "Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists obviously have different ideas about equality than Conservatives."

Are you presenting an opinion or a statement of fact?

======================

You just have to type something even if it is the obvious.

There is no doubt that you have different ideas about equality than myself so why the question when you already know the answer?

April 29, 2014 at 11:16 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

But of course, no Democrat produces a thing. No Democrat works for a living. No Democrat owns a business or employs anyone. Only Conservatives do...right?

===========================

See, you just have to type something even if it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Just more straw men by you.

April 29, 2014 at 11:35 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"You're an idiot."

==================

It always comes to slander and name calling with you.

April 29, 2014 at 11:42 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"You're an idiot."

Telling the truth about someone is not "slander or name calling". It may hurt, but it's still the truth.

April 29, 2014 at 11:48 a.m.
LibDem said...

zableedofisterix has that rash again.

April 29, 2014 at 12:07 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You just have to type something even if it is the obvious."

Sir, when one paints a perceived opposite with one broad brush, one often looks stupid. And your statement is stupid.

"There is no doubt that you have different ideas about equality than myself so why the question when you already know the answer?"

Equality encompasses a great many issues and ideals. The fact that you have decided to weigh in with a political distinction, without considering all the other ways people are inequal, speaks volumes about yourself, rather than those you attempt to demean with your nastiness.

April 29, 2014 at 12:25 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

So, you now agree that you I have different ideas about equality and you are nasty about it.

April 29, 2014 at 12:34 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

It behooves the left to divide and promote an underclass. Just part of their plan. And it seems to work, sadly.

April 29, 2014 at 12:34 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I appreciate the media continuing to omit the fact that Clippers owner Donald Sterling is a liberal Democrat.

April 29, 2014 at 12:55 p.m.
tifosi said...

The Right is doing the dividing. If you are not white, christian and wear a hood - then you must be Left.

April 29, 2014 at 12:56 p.m.

LOL yeah, tifosi, that's the way it is. "a hood" as in KKK. Idiot.

The left has made an industry out of race, a very lucrative one.

Conservatives believe we're all Americans, not the hyphenated bull$hit you libs pump up for your gain. In fact, the GOP, which is not run by consevatives, is doing much of the same things.

That's BO's MO, divide and gain from it.

April 29, 2014 at 1:36 p.m.

tifosi said... "The Right is doing the dividing. If you are not white, christian and wear a hood - then you must be Left."

Add the religious idiocy of christian fundamentalism's war on science and history, support of world-wide military crusades, anti-women's reproductive choices, drug wars, and moral peeping toms in bedrooms, and you've got the Republican and Tea Party platform for 2014-16.

April 29, 2014 at 1:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "See, you just have to type something even if it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Just more straw men by you."

You even quoted the statement I responded to. Here...let me refresh your weak and feeble memory;

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

Do you even see the error in your sentence? You assert that most of your polar opposites pay less than 15% of their income in the form of taxes, which is debatable on it's own.

Setting aside that, you then go on to assert that anyone who is taxed less than 15% of their income, demands more from producers.

What constitutes a "producer?"

You may not have come out and typed it, but it's easy to understand what's rolling around in that empty cranium you never use.

How many Republicans/Conservatives do you believe exist who depend on the Government for their sustenance?

I'll be you think...zero.

You're stuck in a time warp and you're quite bigoted against anyone who is not a conservative.

How utterly sad.

April 29, 2014 at 1:44 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "It always comes to slander and name calling with you."

No, it doesn't always come to that, but as the old saying goes...

"If the shoe fits..."

April 29, 2014 at 1:45 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "So, you now agree that you I have different ideas about equality and you are nasty about it."

Sir, go back and read what you first wrote today, and see if you can find a hint of niceness in it.

Secondly, you need to improve your comprehension skills. I wrote clearly that there are several areas where people are inequal, but the chances are very good that you and I would indeed differ on every single one of them.

April 29, 2014 at 1:48 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

Do you even see the error in your sentence? You assert that most of your polar opposites pay less than 15% of their income in the form of taxes, which is debatable on it's own.

==================

Well, I see the lie in your assertion. It can't be an accident.

I said "federal income tax" not "pay less than 15% of their income" as you stated.

You are not smart enough to fool me, deceitful but not smart.

April 29, 2014 at 2:03 p.m.

conservative said... "You are not smart enough to fool me, deceitful but not smart."

Mr. Conservative, you believe in a literal Bible full of historical inaccuracies, contradictions, total lack of science, and mythological absurdities.

That doesn't say much for your intelligence but a great deal about your self-deception.

April 29, 2014 at 2:23 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"Setting aside that, you then go on to assert that anyone who is taxed less than 15% of their income, demands more from producers."

=====================

Well, there you go again. You lied when you claim I used the word "anyone."

Now, those Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who speak out here and in the mess media constantly, constantly, one more time, constantly claim that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes when the majority of these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who vote Demoncrat don't have enough income to pay more than 15%.

It is a fact that over the last 30 years that I have paid attention that The rich pay by far more in taxes and at a higher rate than these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists.

April 29, 2014 at 2:24 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Connie wrote: "So, you now agree that you I have different ideas about equality and you are nasty about it."

Sir, go back and read what you first wrote today, and see if you can find a hint of niceness in it.

===============

You were convicted by the truth. You are the one who constantly calls me names, insults me and slanders me.

You have a lot of nerve calling for niceness. What a hypocrite you are!

April 29, 2014 at 2:31 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Tiffy says "The Right is doing the dividing. If you are not white, christian and wear a hood - then you must be Left." You make my point, Tiffless. You deny being a leftie? Have never seen you side with a right of center point. except the UAW thing when you thought your job might be affected. very funny

April 29, 2014 at 2:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Well, I see the lie in your assertion. It can't be an accident."

You've been lying all along, because you have no way to back up your stupid claim.

"I said "federal income tax" not "pay less than 15% of their income" as you stated."

I knew you had comprehension issues. You cannot even see that the two ways of putting it are exactly the same.

"You are not smart enough to fool me, deceitful but not smart."

Yeah I am. You're too stupid to argue a single point. And as usual, you can NEVER back up any claim you make.

April 29, 2014 at 2:46 p.m.

The left dominate the fed. government, dominate the media, dominate the entertainment industry, and they dominate the sports world as well(espn and their liberal commentators).

Allah, you're absurd? The tea party is not the Republican party. The Republican Party is barely different than the Democrat Party. They're just token opposition for the sake of theater, that's it. They will go along with BO care and the kissing up to illegal aliens. The Tea Party does not want snooping into our private lives, and control over us. That's what you liberals want. BO care is snooping into our private lives.

"war on history" How? You libs love revisionist history. You give credit for the civil rights act to Democrats, which is bull$hit. You blame the Vietnam war on the GOP when it was LBJ who escalated it for his own gain. You whitewash things right and left, like Benghazi.

April 29, 2014 at 2:50 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Now, who votes Demoncrat? Is it not those who claim that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes when the majority of them don't even pay a 15% income tax rate.

Those on food stamps, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or income taxes and certainly not 15%.

College students, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those on welfare, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those who claim the child tax credit, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those who work minimum wage, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Now, you may not like what I wrote but these are the facts. That is why you are so nasty. You hate the facts but you obviously don't hate being nasty.

April 29, 2014 at 2:51 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Well, there you go again. You lied when you claim I used the word "anyone.".."

Anyone who is Socialist/Democrat/Liberal. Isn't that what you stated?

"Now, those Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who speak out here and in the mess media constantly, constantly, one more time, constantly claim that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes when the majority of these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who vote Demoncrat don't have enough income to pay more than 15%."

Really? Name them.

"It is a fact that over the last 30 years that I have paid attention that The rich pay by far more in taxes and at a higher rate than these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists."

Now THAT too is a provably false statement. You're forgetting that the issue raised it's ugly head during the last Presidential election.

Mitt Romney paid a 14.1% effective tax rate on an income of over $13.7 million in 2011, while people working for him paid percentages much higher.

You don't get much richer than Mitt Romney, so when people start bitching about taxes being too high in this nation, all I can do is laugh.

If you think you're paying too much, maybe you need to hire a better tax person.

April 29, 2014 at 2:55 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"I said "federal income tax" not "pay less than 15% of their income" as you stated."

I knew you had comprehension issues. You cannot even see that the two ways of putting it are exactly the same.

====================

Oh no! Many here and in the mess media argue that those who don't pay income taxes pay other taxes to justify their claim that the "poor" do pay a lot in taxes.

You just tried that with me.

April 29, 2014 at 2:55 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"You are not smart enough to fool me, deceitful but not smart."

Yeah I am. You're too stupid to argue a single point. And as usual, you can NEVER back up any claim you make

===============

Yes I am and that is why you resort you nastiness of insults, slander and name calling.

April 29, 2014 at 2:58 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Connie wrote: "Well, there you go again. You lied when you claim I used the word "anyone.".."

Anyone who is Socialist/Democrat/Liberal. Isn't that what you stated?

=====================

Yes, but initially you changed what I stated as you well know:

"Setting aside that, you then go on to assert that anyone who is taxed less than 15% of their income, demands more from producers."

I clarified my statement, you chose you expand it.

Who do you think you are fooling?

April 29, 2014 at 3:04 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"The tea party is not the Republican party."

They are a subset of the GOP. They campaign for the GOP, they back GOP candidates, and they support the majority of the GOP principles.

April 29, 2014 at 3:05 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

^^^ so?

April 29, 2014 at 3:06 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"It is a fact that over the last 30 years that I have paid attention that The rich pay by far more in taxes and at a higher rate than these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists."

Now THAT too is a provably false statement. You're forgetting that the issue raised it's ugly head during the last Presidential election.

===================

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. About once or twice a year the mess media has published the data from the IRS and organizations such as the Tax Foundation detailing who pays the taxes in this country. I have seen these facts for over 30 years.

Ronald Reagan often brought these facts up.

Google "who pays the income taxes" and you will learn something.

April 29, 2014 at 3:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I once was ambivalent toward the Tea Party. But the Left's smearing makes me think they're good to go.

April 29, 2014 at 3:12 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I appreciate the media continuing to omit the fact that Clippers owner Donald Sterling is a liberal Democrat." - JD

Didn't waste any time regurgitating what you heard on Faux News and your usual right-wing propaganda sources, did you, JD? If you had bothered to dig a little deeper and find out the FACTS, you would have held off on saying such a dumbass thing. Donald Sterling is in FACT a registered Republican and has been since 1998. While it is true that he has donated to three Democrats in the past, the grand total of his contributions amounted to $6000, and the latest donation was well over a decade ago. His net worth is close to $2 billion, so contributing a paltry $6000 doesn't exactly make him a George Soros-style liberal.

The larger point here is that, even if here were a liberal Democrat, so what? Both liberal and conservative public figures have been known to do and say stupid, malicious things. Even if he were a flaming liberal I don't know of any fellow libs who would jump to his defense. Look at Anthony Weiner. Most liberals agreed that he acted stupidly and shamefully and they reacted with unified disgust at what he did. But then, look at Republicans Desjarlais and Vitter, who committed brazen acts far more immoral than what Weiner did, and yet they both got enough support from fellow conservatives to stay in office.

So, two things here: #1, your information is a bald-faced lie. And #2, it is entirely irrelevant either way.

April 29, 2014 at 3:14 p.m.
fairmon said...

It appears liberals have an unreasonable fear of the tea party which tempts me to investigate the tea party more.

April 29, 2014 at 3:26 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I once was ambivalent toward the Tea Party. But the Left's smearing makes me think they're good to go."

Yeah, your smearing is perfectly acceptable, though, huh, Jack?

April 29, 2014 at 3:26 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"^^^ so?"

Why the question mark? "so" is not a question, it is your display of unoriginal thought; use a period next time.

April 29, 2014 at 3:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You were convicted by the truth. You are the one who constantly calls me names, insults me and slanders me."

Slanders you? Not once. Every name I have ever leveled in your direction, you have deserved, and then some.

You are an ass of the highest order.

"You have a lot of nerve calling for niceness. What a hypocrite you are!"

Sir, you are one of the few people who causes me to lose my niceness, and unfortunately for you, you deserve it.

You have never written a nicety in this forum...not that I have seen.

Perhaps the problem is not with me, but with the man you see in the mirror.

April 29, 2014 at 3:37 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Oh no! Many here and in the mess media argue that those who don't pay income taxes pay other taxes to justify their claim that the "poor" do pay a lot in taxes."

Yeah, and that is a separate issue from that which you raised today.

"You just tried that with me."

Nope. We were on the same page. Youy just denied your own statement, rather than to rise to the challenge of backing it up.

April 29, 2014 at 3:39 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"It appears liberals have an unreasonable fear of the tea party which tempts me to investigate the tea party more." - fairmon

We do not fear the Tea Party. What we fear is the degree of ignorance and ass-backward thinking they represent. When we see the extent to which they have swayed the GOP and are succeeding in passing regressive, draconian laws that are taking us backward instead of forward, THAT is what we fear. Along with fundamentalist Christians, the Tea Party represents a dark cloud of ignorance, hate, aristocratic elitism, and bigotry that is taking this nation further and further down the toilet. That indeed is scary to us. But our fear is not such that it is paralyzing us. The stupider and more brazen they become, the more galvanized and proactive we will in turn become. The days of neo-con ignorance and oligarchic oppression are numbered. There will no doubt be more hell to go through, but it is inevitable that in the end reason and humanitarianism will extinguish bind faith and the false, worn-out neo-conservative ideologies of greed and self-centeredness.

April 29, 2014 at 3:42 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

So now you claim that you are justified in your nastiness.

April 29, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.
alprova said...

"You obviously don't know what you are talking about. About once or twice a year the mess media has published the data from the IRS and organizations such as the Tax Foundation detailing who pays the taxes in this country. I have seen these facts for over 30 years."

Sure you have. You're swallowing (don't get excited) a very slanted version of the issue. The middle class pay, on everage, a much higher percentage of their income towards taxes than the rich do.

Currently, wealthy people who do not have to work, and don't, don't pay a cent in income taxes.

That Sir, is a provable fact. In fact, it doesn't even have to be proven, for all it takes is some common sense to realize that anyone who does not earn any income throughout a year, owes not a cent in income taxes.

Google who pays the highest percentage of their income in income taxes, and you might learn a thing or two yourself.

April 29, 2014 at 3:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "So now you claim that you are justified in your nastiness."

To you? You betcha!!

April 29, 2014 at 3:51 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

So now you try to change the argument. This is your standard MO.

You try to make it appear that you are refuting something I previously said.

You have just created straw men here having nothing to do with anything I have said today.

April 29, 2014 at 3:55 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Why do you think that you are hurting me with your name calling and overall nastiness?

You seem oblivious to the fact that you are only demeaning yourself.

April 29, 2014 at 3:57 p.m.

Exactly, Jack. The left is scared of anyone who demands accountability, that's the they fear the Tea Party.

April 29, 2014 at 4:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

Democrat liberals believe in pro-choice....except in education, guns, healthcare, energy, smoking, light bulbs, seat belts, toilets, union membership, light bulbs, WALMART , plastic bags, what you can eat etc. etc. The list of choices they don't like people to have is getting rather long.

April 29, 2014 at 4:13 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....That Sir, is a provable fact. In fact, it doesn't even have to be proven, for all it takes is some common sense to realize that anyone who does not earn any income throughout a year, owes not a cent in income taxes.

Another good reason for taxing spending instead of income. My fear is politicians would simply change their confiscation process to fees, royalties, license etc. instead of calling them a tax.

Do you think people investing in tax free municipal bonds issued by states and cities should be taxed on that gain? I do, since so many poorly managed states and cities get in trouble when they can borrow money other than from banks and other lenders. People in Chattanooga would croak if they knew the true total of unfunded future liabilities of the city.

April 29, 2014 at 4:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Sure you have. You're swallowing (don't get excited) a very slanted version of the issue. The middle class pay, on average, a much higher percentage of their income towards taxes than the rich do.

That is likely true when local and state, sales and other taxes are included. However, do you not accept the IRS report that says the top 10% earners pay 80%, or some very similar amount, of all federal income taxes paid? The 27.5 cent per gallon tax on gas is more for the low income person than the rich. The over 30% in tax and fees on a phone bill has a similar affect. Many examples like this on our convoluted tax system which hurts lower incomes more.

April 29, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Roo, nobody smears better than yourself. Except for maybe Alpo, Gassy, LibDem, or Tiffless.

April 29, 2014 at 4:43 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Fairmon, have you ever done any research into the Fair Tax? Most economists (that have no political interest in taxes) say it will result in a tax increase on approximately 85% of Americans.

Fister, you are delusional to believe the "left" is scared of the Tea Party. I will tell you that moderate Republicans may be scared of the Tea Party, but there are few (if any) Tea Party politicians in office (on the national level). They end up sinking their own campaign (Aiken, O'Donnell, Palin, etc.) with some asinine comment.

April 29, 2014 at 4:44 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Why is it "Jack_Dennis" now instead of "Plain Truth"? Did the guilt become too burdensome when you realized that very little of what you post is even close to the truth?

April 29, 2014 at 4:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "So now you try to change the argument. This is your standard MO."

You lying SOS. The only one changing their argument is you. Your claim was that "Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more."

When challenged on that, you ran away from your own words to type, "...the majority of these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who vote Demoncrat don't have enough income to pay more than 15%."**

Then you deferred to "...twice a year the mess media has published the data from the IRS and organizations such as the Tax Foundation detailing who pays the taxes in this country."**

"You try to make it appear that you are refuting something I previously said."

Sir, the ONLY thing I am tying to do is to get you to back up your claim in regard to Socialists, which are not counted in this nation, Democrats, which are, and Liberals, whom you claim "MOST" do not pay more than 15% of their income in the form of Federal Taxes.

It is a provably false statement, and one that is born out of pure politics, than anything factual.

You have just created straw men here having nothing to do with anything I have said today.

April 29, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.
fairmon said...

GaussianInteger said...

Fairmon, have you ever done any research into the Fair Tax? Most economists (that have no political interest in taxes) say it will result in a tax increase on approximately 85% of Americans.

I have and economist are wrong much more often than right. They fail to consider the lower prices possible with zero corporate taxes. they fail to consider taxes avoided by those working for cash and illegal gains. They fail to consider the hidden taxes of more than 22% in goods and services. The wealthy, politicians and wealthy economist want no part of it therefore it will likely die in committee. As the chairman of the ways and means committee said when reviewed with him..."no way we can do that, we in congress may not be able to manipulate it".

April 29, 2014 at 5:06 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Why do you think that you are hurting me with your name calling and overall nastiness?"

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn one way or the other if what I type to you hurts you or makes you giddy with delight.

"You seem oblivious to the fact that you are only demeaning yourself."

I'm so glad that you cleared that up.

April 29, 2014 at 5:09 p.m.
alprova said...

"Another good reason for taxing spending instead of income. My fear is politicians would simply change their confiscation process to fees, royalties, license etc. instead of calling them a tax."

If there is one issue you and I do see eye to eye on, it is the Fair Tax. Unfortunately, neither one of us will likely live to see it come to fruition.

Not until we throw some of the bums in there, out of office.

April 29, 2014 at 5:13 p.m.
alprova said...

"However, do you not accept the IRS report that says the top 10% earners pay 80%, or some very similar amount, of all federal income taxes paid?"

Of course, I accept it. But that does not mean that the rich pay more in terms of percentage of their income in income taxes. They in fact, more often than not, pay less.

Whatever the rich do pay, it is not likely a burden to them, as it often is for those in the middle and lower income classes.

The 27.5 cent per gallon tax on gas is more for the low income person than the rich. The over 30% in tax and fees on a phone bill has a similar affect. Many examples like this on our convoluted tax system which hurts lower incomes more.

April 29, 2014 at 5:16 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Connie wrote: "So now you try to change the argument. This is your standard MO."

You lying SOS. The only one changing their argument is you. Your claim was that "Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more."

When challenged on that, you ran away from your own words to type, "...the majority of these Liberals/Demoncrats/Socialists who vote Demoncrat don't have enough income to pay more than 15%."**

==========================

Wow!

I didn't run from anything and there is no contradiction.

You are one desperate man who is continues to be a nasty man.

Maybe if I put my first statement in larger letters you will get it-

Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality.

April 29, 2014 at 5:26 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Sir, the ONLY thing I am tying to do is to get you to back up your claim in regard to Socialists, which are not counted in this nation, Democrats, which are, and Liberals, whom you claim "MOST" do not pay more than 15% of their income in the form of Federal Taxes.

========================

Well, this is common sense and common knowledge. You need to catch up:

Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality.

Now, who votes Demoncrat? Is it not those who claim that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes when the majority of them don't even pay a 15% income tax rate.

Those on food stamps, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or income taxes and certainly not 15%.

College students, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those on welfare, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those who claim the child tax credit, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Those who work minimum wage, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%.

Now, you may not like what I wrote but these are the facts. That is why you are so nasty. You hate the facts but you obviously don't hate being nasty.

April 29, 2014 at 5:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Now, when I first wrote:

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

Your first sentence in response was:

"But of course, no Democrat produces a thing."

Now, here is a great example of a man who either lacks understanding in what he reads or deliberately makes a false accusation because he has no credible opposing argument.

April 29, 2014 at 6:36 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, a family that files jointly and makes less than 110,000 Modified Adjusted Gross Income is eligible for the "child tax credit". You are an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Now, when I first wrote:

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

Your second sentence in response was:

"No Democrat works for a living"

Was that what you think or was that another false accusation because you had no credible opposing argument?

April 29, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, a family that files jointly and makes less than 110,000 Modified Adjusted Gross Income is eligible for the "child tax credit". You are an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.

========================

You need to closely read my words. You obviously misunderstood.

You might want to be more careful in the future when you call someone an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 6:49 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

If there is one issue you and I do see eye to eye on, it is the Fair Tax. Unfortunately, neither one of us will likely live to see it come to fruition.

Not until we throw some of the bums in there, out of office.

Unfortunately those that would benefit most can be scared away by the wealthy and others that would then pay equally with the rest of us. It is sad how little time people spend thinking through things and arriving at their own logical conclusion instead of depending on others to tell them what to think, what to do, when to do it etc. People that are mentally lazy are easier to manipulate than those physically lazy.

April 29, 2014 at 6:49 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Now, when I first wrote:

"Most Liberal/Demoncrats/Socialists pay less than 15% income tax while demanding that the producers pay more. This is their idea of equality."

Your third sentence in response was:

"No Democrat owns a business or employs anyone."

You really are disconnected in your responses to me. You wander off in your bitterness, making silly irrational statements.

Don't you think that you would be better off just holding your anger in?

April 29, 2014 at 6:54 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"You need to closely read my words. You obviously misunderstood."

I did. Did you not post this:

"Those who claim the child tax credit, if they vote, overwhelmingly vote Demoncrat. They pay little or no income taxes and certainly not 15%."?

Please explain what I "misunderstood". Let me guess, more dishonesty from the "World's Best Christian" as you try to explain that those aren't your words.

April 29, 2014 at 7:30 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

And I stand by my statement: You are an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 7:31 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"they fail to consider taxes avoided by those working for cash and illegal gains. They fail to consider the hidden taxes of more than 22% in goods and services."

Fairmon, what would stop people from setting up black markets where customers could pay cash and avoid the tax? I also don't see how it would be fair to the poor and lower class. They will spend almost all of the income over the course of the year, a wealthy person will not.

April 29, 2014 at 7:41 p.m.
conservative said...

Gaus:

Read it again and then compare with your outburst.

BTW, you might do some research and find out how you just misused quotation marks - "World's Best Christian"

Also, you have been on a hate mission ever since you failed to dismiss the fact that no Homosexual will inherit the Kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 6:9-10 is the word of God, His judgment, and not mine own.

April 29, 2014 at 7:48 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Nope, you're being dishonest. It happens every time someone proves you wrong. I reposted exactly what you said, no paraphrasing. You were just talking out your ass again, posting your beliefs with no factual evidence to support what you said.

April 29, 2014 at 8:05 p.m.
tifosi said...

Conservative is an idiot.

April 29, 2014 at 8:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Yes, Connie is a total idiot.

Nothing makes my day more than to challenge something he types, and watch him go to great lengths to defend his utter stupidity.

Connie, whether you want to believe it or not, Democrats, Liberals, and even Socialists pay taxes, and more often than not, they pay higher percentages of their income for those income taxes than the richest American does.

Now just in case you cannot begin to comprehend what I am referring to, think about what you earn as a pornography website owner.

You probably earn quite a lot. I'm sure as a business owner, you cheat on your taxes like every other business owner. I've never met one who didn't.

People who do not own businesses don't have extra deductions that allow them to deduct more than the standard deductions on their taxes, and thus, they wind up paying more than 15%, if both a husband and a wife work for $9.00 and hour.

So you see, your stupid theory holds not an ounce of water, for the fact is that most Democrats/Liberals/ and even a few Socialists earn far and above more than that, so your claim is as stupid and ill conceived as your understanding of the Bible.

April 29, 2014 at 9:48 p.m.
fairmon said...

Gauss said...

I also don't see how it would be fair to the poor and lower class. They will spend almost all of the income over the course of the year, a wealthy person will not.

A wealthy person will pay taxes on every purchase without loop holes to avoid them. Those you call poor will pay less for goods and services and actually get as much or more than they get now for the same money. Don't over look the probate provision which helps those with lower incomes but it is only hamburger money or chump change for the wealthy. The consumption tax is on the initial purchase by a consumer. Black markets could happen but with producers required to document what and to whom they sold their products auditing is easy. Also, there will be plenty of initiative for enforcing the collection and submitting of due taxes and taking legal action against those attempting to circumvent the system.

The H&R Blocks, accountants and others making money off of the current complex system don't want it. The IRS will not have to have a staff to process all the filed taxes and will become a relic of history.

There would be no capital tax category or tax free bonds etc. Wealthy people with dividend income which is taxed at a 20% maximum rate and tax free municipal bond interest will pay taxes on any and all income spent.

The U.S. economy would literally explode if proposal HR-25 were passed and implemented as proposed. The transition would be a major event. Educating people would be a tremendous challenge but worth it.

How many economist are in the top position in a large and very successful business? Why are they primarily in government, teaching or in low staff level jobs in businesses?

April 30, 2014 at 12:07 a.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.