published Tuesday, March 11th, 2014

Ukrainian Flag

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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blackwater48 said...

EUROPE IS OVER A BARREL

It’s too bad that Obama jumped the gun and condemned Russia’s invasion of Crimea. The truth is the United States does NOT have a vested interest in Ukraine but the invasion has already had a big impact without us lifting a finger. The Russian economy is taking a beating and Putin has spent billions trying to prop up the Ruble.

While Putin has a grand dream to reunite the old USSR, I don’t think he wanted to take this action this soon but then Ukraine kicked out Putin’s stooge and threatened to join the EU. Putin thought he had to protect the Russian navy’s only warm water port.

Europe needs to respond quickly. Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova should all be fast-tracked into the EU (European Union) and granted membership into NATO. It probably won’t happen because those spineless wimps are hoping Obama does their dirty work for them. Germany gets about 40% of its energy from Russian but Putin has all EU nations over a (oil) barrel.

Before you tea baggers get too high pitched in your condemnation, let me quote former Defense Secretary Bob Gates who served under both presidents Bush and Obama: “My own view is, after all, Putin invaded Georgia when George W. Bush was president. Nobody ever accused George W. Bush of being weak or unwilling to use military force.”

Gates also said GOP lawmakers should tone down their criticism and “try to be supportive of the president rather than natter at the president.”

In the grand scheme of things Russia taking over Crimea is not a big deal, but If Europe does not respond swiftly and forcefully they shouldn’t be surprised to see how far Putin will be willing to go.

March 11, 2014 at 1:07 a.m.
fairmon said...

The U.S. and Canada has the ability to supply Europe with gas and should expand production and initiate action on the pipeline to do so. Russia has Europe over the proverbial barrel....of oil that is. The U.S. and Canada initiative could destroy the oil dependent Russian economy and help the U.S. economy in addition to improving the trade imbalance.

Will congress and the administration seize the opportunity? Not likely since they would have to agree on something.

March 11, 2014 at 1:20 a.m.
fairmon said...

Is everyone still proud of the U.S. for backing off of putting missile sites in that region to improve relations with Russia? Obama has again appeased Russia and remember Bush saw his soul in his eyes and declared him credible. How lucky we are to have had these two in charge? A shoot from the hip cowboy followed by a wimpy nerd supported by a congress interested only in retaining their seat in congress.

March 11, 2014 at 1:27 a.m.
nucanuck said...

BW,

You sound as though you believe Putin to be the aggressor when clearly the US had a hand in fomenting the coup in Kiev. Asst. Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland has stated publicly that the US has spent $5Billion to turn Ukraine toward Europe. In a taped phone call (now public) she informed the US Ambassador to Ukraine who the next PM of Ukraine was to be shortly before the coup. That was no public uprising for freedom and liberty, that was a raw grab for power intended to hurt Russia and backed by the US government.

The US and Europe have long tried to peel away any and all countries with close ties to Russia and then include them in NATO, moving NATO military ever closer to the Russian border. Eastern Ukraine was part of Mother Russia at her inception. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are more Russian than European.

Putin and Russia have defended their vital interests by enabling Crimea to self determine her future affiliation. Crimea, was transferred to Ukraine when Ukraine was a Provence within the Soviet Union, but has always remained mostly Russian in make-up.

Before this is all over, Eastern (Orthodox) Ukraine is likely to rise up and insist on being part of Russia, leaving Western (Catholic) Ukraine as a separate country. That will give about 20 million impoverished people and Chernobyl to Europe to try to nurse to health. Good luck with that. Russia will likely end up with 22 million people and the more productive parts of Ukraine, all because of a huge neoconservative geopolitical blunder on the part of the US.

Putin only reacted to protect Russia's interest in the mess the US made in Ukraine. So far Putin is looking better than all the other players in this totally unnecessary provoked fiasco. Also consider that Putin artfully prevented a US/NATO bombing in Syria last year as well as brokering a deal with Iran to calm those waters.

Western media has demonized Putin when, in fact, he has behaved like the best kid in the class. Russia was flat on her back when Putin first took power. Since then Russia has steadily improved in almost every category. The problems are still many, but progress has been made. During that same time period the US has been in a steady decline. Those are the unpleasant facts that we Americans don't like to admit and we don't read or hear on our news.

Ask yourself how the US would react to a similar situation on the US border.

March 11, 2014 at 2:21 a.m.
nucanuck said...

faimon,

The US and Canada have a lot of natural gas that would take several years and billions of dollars for the infrastructure to ship it anywhere. LNG is a much more expensive product than NG. Nat Gas is plentiful in the Middle East as well and they could build a pipeline if they could overthrow the Syrian government. What do you think the war in Syria is all about, freedom and democracy?

Germany knows all that and Germany is not going to ruffle Russian feathers unnecessarily, count on it. Germany, Russia, and China are countries rising while the rest of the world has bigger problems than they can solve. The US is addicted to empire building and can't give it up even though the US is out of money and nearly out of credit. The US tries to build that empire by adding client states to the fold and by trying to protect the petrodollar and the reserve currency status that only the US enjoys. The US has abused those privileges and will almost certainly lose them sometime over the next decade…probably sooner rather than later.

Economic, not military, is the only real strength. Economic strength made the US a great country and a great power. The military, to excess, simply drains and misdirects resources away from maintaining that strength. The US is now paying the price for the MIC, just as Ike said we would.

Russia has not behaved as an enemy since the break-up of the Soviet Union and yet the US keeps treating her as an enemy. Making problems instead of friends? Pre coup, Putin had said that he thought that the West and Russia should work together to help the Ukraine back on her feet. The US fomented coup was the response.

March 11, 2014 at 2:55 a.m.
MasterBlaster said...

Cue the Reich Wing slurpfest of their hero du jour, or anybody else who doesn't like our President...

March 11, 2014 at 3:39 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Канадский любит обвинять Америку в первую очередь. Никогда не публикует ничего, кроме ненависти к Америке. Я говорю, идут в ад, Кремль ждет вашего прибытия вы ничего не стоит маленькая сучка.

March 11, 2014 at 4:31 a.m.
EaTn said...

Putin has a vested interest in maintaining access to the Black Sea and keeping a lid on open-rebellion next door. Contagious freedom-fighting could easily spread into Russia.

March 11, 2014 at 7:06 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey nucanuck, are you still consuming 2.3 earths?

You still have not revealed how you are doing that and you still have not told me what you are doing to cause global warming/climate change.

March 11, 2014 at 7:52 a.m.

"Russia has not behaved as an enemy since the break-up of the Soviet Union"

Nothing quite like and ex-patriot living in Canada favoring the Russia over the U.S.

That's naive, or it's propaganda.

There's no justification for military action in the Ukraine, just like there wasn't any in Georgia. I don't think we should've gone into Bosnia. But, Russia is still the enemy, as is China. Just because there hasn't been anything overt going on doesn't mean they're not the enemy.

As long as we a have a POTUS who puts down the his country to the world, why should we be taken seriously. BO is doing the right thing by not doing anything militarily, but that's a no brainer. He did the wrong thing in Egypt, and Lybia. Russia doesn't give a crap about economic sanctions, they have China on their side.

March 11, 2014 at 8:17 a.m.

People have a natural urning to be free, but history proves that they easily give it up for security or promises of being given things. BO is counting on that in this country. Statist swine. I think BO actually wishes he could be like Putin.

No conservative on this site has called for military action in the Ukraine, many libs on here keep repeating that. But, then that's your MO, repeat something over and over until it becomes fact. I think that was a communist thing.

March 11, 2014 at 8:34 a.m.
tifosi said...

Jt6gR3hM said...

***tifosi said...

HALLELUJAH!!!! Democracy is happening. The UAW and VW cannot comprehend this idea.***

Congratulations on that victory and hopefully the overall win will be in your column. I think VW sh!t the bed on this deal and have pissed off a certain number of their employees that don’t want the union. They will have some work to regain their full support. Don’t you think so?


Yes. If the UAW got in here, there would be a lot of resumes going out. I also think it is alienating customers because of the wide-spread publicity.

March 11, 2014 at 8:35 a.m.
limric said...

Interesting cartoon today Clay. The bear takes a bite out of the Ukraine.

A very good summation Nucanuck and it is largely correct but misses an important (the most important?) aspect of the cacophony surrounding the faux indignation of the west.

From Iranian based ‘PressTV’: “Moscow is preparing a bill that would freeze the assets of European and American companies operating in Russia in response to potential Western sanctions against Russia over the crisis in Ukraine’s Republic of Crimea.” UH OH!

Additionally, ”if the United States imposes sanctions on Russia over Ukraine, Moscow might just be forced to drop the dollar as a reserve currency and refuse to pay off any loans to US banks.” UH OH!!

Taking that into consideration, multinationals and international banking cartels own European and US Governments. Does anybody think, even for a minute, that they’re going to take the chance of losing billions because of troubles in what has for centuries been part of Russia; despite any denial of liberties or human suffering? Aww - those poor people. NOT!

There’s a word for this…..oh yea - Checkmate! Again.

Russians are very good chess players while the loudmouth American neo cons are having a tough time with checkers. You can forget about the U.S. (or Europeans for that matter) doing anything other than empty hypocritical blathering (of which Kerry is the consummate professional) to openly to continue a coup they had a hand in. Just like Venezuela.

Appeasement Fairmon? You are either naïve or being intentionally ignorant. You need to look under more rocks. It’s teeming with the bugs of cash/corruption.

March 11, 2014 at 8:37 a.m.
jesse said...

Putin is holding a full house while Obama is trying to bluff w/ two pairs!

March 11, 2014 at 8:56 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Here we go with the Putin love...again.

March 11, 2014 at 9:12 a.m.
limric said...

Attempting to place blame or criticize Obama about the Ukraine is utterly absurd. What would you (or anyone else posting here) advise the President to do Jesse?

By the way, your avatar is great.

March 11, 2014 at 9:13 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

PT has no love for anything Rooski

March 11, 2014 at 9:13 a.m.
jesse said...

That's the point Limric, he's boxed in w/NO good options!

TALK is all he's got now!!

March 11, 2014 at 9:20 a.m.
limric said...

There never were any options. Talk is all anyone ever had.

Bear baiting is not (nor was it ever) a viable option.

March 11, 2014 at 9:32 a.m.
jesse said...

STFU at one time WAS an option!!

March 11, 2014 at 9:40 a.m.
degage said...

Dude, I got a big kick out of your march 10 8:25 pm post, so I decided to see which one of you posted the most on the Car Alarm toon, You posted 35 times and PT posted 30 times. Must be PT stands up the most.

March 11, 2014 at 10:08 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Mrs Gage: I am a stand-up guy.

March 11, 2014 at 10:15 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Limric, it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" option.

And Jesse, I don't see how he is "boxed in" at this point.

March 11, 2014 at 10:21 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Best anyone can do is limit the losses. The Crimea is lost. Stop further loss by sanctions, threats, whatever. The Russians have an Asian mindset…patience. They won't go away.

March 11, 2014 at 10:27 a.m.
limric said...

Exactly GaussianInteger.

STFU as Jesse would say is pretty funny. When has the U.S.A. ever missed a chance at throwing hypocritical invective? Mmm - never?

March 11, 2014 at 10:30 a.m.
jesse said...

Looks like a lose-lose situation to me Gassious!

No way for Obama can come out lookin good!

He keeps givin out ultimatums and then has to back down!

BUT we will see how it shakes out!!

March 11, 2014 at 10:30 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova wrote the following:

"I am a Christian because I try to emulate Christ on a daily basis"

"Get something through your thick head. I have NEVER blasphemed God."

" Jesus cannot be God"

Jesus said:

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins ; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24 NAS

March 11, 2014 at 10:32 a.m.
limric said...

PlainTruth,

"The Crimea is lost." Lost? Lost to whom?

March 11, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

limric. lost to the rooskies. maybe not to you, lim. but a loss to anyone studying russian history.

March 11, 2014 at 10:43 a.m.
jesse said...

I don't know P T, looks to me like Putin has a real good grip on the Crimea right now!!

March 11, 2014 at 10:48 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^That's what I'm saying.

March 11, 2014 at 10:54 a.m.
limric said...

Although the Crimea has had a tempestuous history, it has remained a semi-autonomous part of Russia for centuries.

So - I ask again. Who lost what to the ‘rooskies’?

There is the remote possibility of a fracturing of the Ukraine (but I doubt it), the Russians however will NEVER give up the Crimea and their access to the Black Sea.

March 11, 2014 at 11:03 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Like I said, the Crimea is lost to the Russians. You're just quibbling over the word "lost", no?

March 11, 2014 at 11:05 a.m.
limric said...

No PlainTruth I'm not quibbling. You keep contending the Crimea is lost. Lost to Whom? You seem to be hinting it is WE that lost something.

March 11, 2014 at 11:38 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Ukraine is in similar economic condition to Greece, dead broke! Europe and the US now have 45 million poor hungry people with dreams of living like Europeans. Russia now has no incentive to offer Ukraine huge discounts on nat gas.

The Ukrainians have allowed the fringe party, Right Sector, to gain political control. Ukraine and the West have come up as big losers, with nothing but pain in the road ahead. Russia was always going to control Crimea and depending on the Russian population in Eastern Ukraine, Russia may eventually also envelope "the better half" of Ukraine.

This whole affair would never have happened without the covert political funding by the West (read US). Now the West has empowered a neo-nazi faction that will create problems going forward. This is similar to backing the Islamic radicals in Libya and Syria to overthrow secular governments that were not a threat to the US.

US foreign policy has to be removed from the deeply implanted neoconservatives (in both parties) who are damaging the US with their world domination theme. Ron Paul and many millions of Americans already know that, and yet, the neoconservative death grip on a failed foreign policy persists.

March 11, 2014 at 11:59 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

limmy, I do? don't recall that. just natural progression of the rooskies. you see what you want to see in my posts, i guess. out of our hands. but I'm not buying into the "free" election in the crimea. with tanks on every corner. OTOH, the people of russia/crimea, etc are used to that kind of governance. just a fact.

March 11, 2014 at 12:37 p.m.
degage said...

No. limric, it appears he is talking about lost to the Ukraine. The Ukraine looses not the U.S. It also may mean the Russian are ready to take over all of the Ukraine or at least all of the western Ukraine.

March 11, 2014 at 1:03 p.m.
limric said...

Plainny, ”I do?”. Yes you do. ”don't recall that.” I know you don’t recall; that’s your modus operandi, and there are plenty within this forum that would agree me on that count.

That’s ok if don’t have or wish to speculate an answer. Just don’t play so fast and loose with, ”just a fact,” before jumping to unsupported supposition/conclusions.

Degage,

I disagree with your assumption re. PlainTruth. If that were so, he would have said so.

I understand what you’re driving at though. And you may be right. But, understand that the Crimea has been a semi-autonomous part of Russia for centuries. It's not like the invasion of Iraq.

March 11, 2014 at 1:14 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Last week the US Congress voted to send $1B US tax dollars to Ukraine for starters. Ukraine will need at least $35 B to get through the year. Ukraine needs that money, not for their people, but to pay interest to the international bankers who hold the debt.

All that basically means is that US taxpayer money sent to Ukraine will go to bail out the international bankers who have made (bad) loans to Ukraine.

Line up and bend over America, Congress has a new spending plan for your money.

March 11, 2014 at 1:17 p.m.
limric said...

"US taxpayer money sent to Ukraine will go to bail out the international bankers who have made (bad) loans to Ukraine."

Yup. Yeeaaa boyeee. Like I said, the banking cartels & multinationals ain't gonna take a hit.

Good post Nucanuck. Maybe that's what Plainny meant..Nah.

March 11, 2014 at 1:26 p.m.
jesse said...

I seriously doubt that's what he meant!!!

March 11, 2014 at 1:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limric seriously hates opposing opinion. Limmy. (although I don't know what his beef is with me on this issue). I'll cop to being a product of the Cold War. I'll cop to despising the Rooskis. But I will not be part of the hate America first crowd. Chaired by Comrade Limric.

March 11, 2014 at 1:46 p.m.
limric said...

I don't seriously hate opposing opinions. It's just that you have NO OPINION and proceed to spew invective and criticism as a substitute for reasoned debate.

It's as if when asked to build a drag strip, you construct a moto cross track and accuse the drag racers of being motorcycle haters.

March 11, 2014 at 2:02 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

there's no one on here that has received more invectives and criticism than PT. not that I mind So, Limmie, you approve of the Russian "takeover" of Crimea?

March 11, 2014 at 2:05 p.m.
limric said...

It's none of our business Plainny. There see - an answer. Simple.

March 11, 2014 at 2:08 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

When did I say it was? I'll hang up and listen.

March 11, 2014 at 2:09 p.m.
limric said...

”When did I say it was?” What?!?!

You didn’t – specifically. But you are attempting to dance around your tacit (if not implicit then veiled) implication that the west (Plainny code for Obama) ’lost the Crimea.”

Plleeeze. I try not to suffer fools; but honestly, you push the boundaries of Credulity

March 11, 2014 at 2:28 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

It might be fair to assume that, in actuality Crimea has always been Russian, even through the 60 years since Russia transferred title to Ukraine. In reality, nothing is changing.

Also there is no current evidence that Russia has intentions of invading Ukraine. Putin has said that if Russians living in Ukraine (of whom there are millions) are subjected to abuse, Russia will come to their assistance. That seems pretty straightforward and understandable to me.

Sure, things are fluid and could change quickly, but so far, Russia is behaving as we might expect under the circumstances.

March 11, 2014 at 2:31 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy, you're crazy as hell. Nothing I said remotely connected Obama to the " loss" of Crimea. Again, you see what you want to see.

March 11, 2014 at 2:41 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

BOGUS

Your history would contradict you.

In a round about way, like the boy who cried wolf. Your continued bearing of false witness lays your motivations bare.

March 11, 2014 at 2:47 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Limric seriously hates opposing opinion."

And you don't, Truth?

March 11, 2014 at 2:50 p.m.
limric said...

Plainny,

Re-read the second and third lines of my 2:28 post. Mmm K big fella.

I think we've beat this dead horse Plainly enough. Boing!

March 11, 2014 at 2:54 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Suffer what you want, Limmy. But you can't back up what you say about linking to Obama. Just throw it out, then run. Gassy, not true. I've been damn near an isolationist forever, and have posited that on many occasions. Thus agreeing with left's position. Rat: bite me.

March 11, 2014 at 3:03 p.m.
limric said...

Sorry but your attempt at deception (Plain magic) brings about a...‘Suspension of disbelief’ shall we say.

A few (but only a handful) of posters purposely push the ‘suspension of disbelief’ to the limit. Your commentary history is a good example; where you expect readers to find your improbable presumptions & suppositions plausible and especially - nonpartisan. They are anything but plausible; they are anything but nonpartisan and they anything but the PlainTruth.

But I digress....

March 11, 2014 at 3:33 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy: Your are so FOS, it's amusing.

March 11, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Putin and Russia have defended their vital interests by enabling Crimea to self determine her future affiliation. Crimea, was transferred to Ukraine when Ukraine was a Provence within the Soviet Union, but has always remained mostly Russian in make-up.


At the end of WW1 the Austro-Hungarian Empire was broken up and one of the countries created was Czechoslovakia. It’s most Western area jutted distinctly into Germany, was populated by German speaking people, was the most industrialized area, and was later known by the term Sudetenland. Although the ethnic Germans were the vast majority in that area they made up only 25% of the country’s total population.

The Czechs were the majority population and comprised the ruling elite. The Germans felt that the Czechs hated and oppressed them and for the most part prevented their participation in governing the country. Germany felt they had every right to defended their vital interests by enabling the Sudetenland to self determine her future affiliation and later to annex the Sudetenland as it was historically, geographically, and ethnically their rightful territory.

"I am asking neither that Germany be allowed to oppress three and a half million Frenchmen, nor am I asking that three and a half million Englishmen be placed at our mercy. Rather I am simply demanding that the oppression of three and a half million Germans in Czechoslovakia cease and that the inalienable right to self-determination take its place." - Adolf Hitler's speech at the NSDAP Congress 1938

Not judging ... Just saying

March 11, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

I'm a PROUD Obama supporter!! He and I understand each other. He and I are BFF's!! He is one man I would love to meet in person. I like him and I always will like him.

I am on the official White House email list. I'm in the club my friend!! I'm not going to be targeted by the IRS. I sleep every night all night long confident and comforted by the fact that such a man is leading this nation.

Factors related to susceptibility and recruitment by cults.

Factors which seem to influence individuals' susceptibility and recruitment by cults. These variables include:

(a) generalized ego-weakness and emotional vulnerability,

(b) propensities toward dissociative states,

(c) tenuous, deteriorated, or nonexistent family relations and support systems,

(d) inadequate means of dealing with exigencies of survival,

(e) history of severe child abuse or neglect,

(f) exposure to idiosyncratic or eccentric family patterns,

(g) proclivities toward or abuse of controlled substances,

(h) unmanageable and debilitating situational stress and crises, and

(i) intolerable socioeconomic conditions.

Also presented are methods utilized by cults, e.g., intimidation, coercion, and indoctrination, for systematically recruiting, initiating, and influencing inductees.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8234595

March 11, 2014 at 4:51 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova wrote the following:

"I am a Christian because I try to emulate Christ on a daily basis"

"Get something through your thick head. I have NEVER blasphemed God."

"Jesus sinned"

" Jesus cannot be God"

Jesus said:

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins ; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24 NAS

March 11, 2014 at 5:03 p.m.
tifosi said...

conservative is damned to hell for committing one of the seven deadly sins.

March 11, 2014 at 5:38 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Most agree the troubles in the Sudetanland was simply a pretext for invasion by Hitler. Of course history is written by the winners.

March 11, 2014 at 5:38 p.m.
jesse said...

con man and Al are like Ahab and Moby Dick!!Obsessed w/each other!

Gassious started out like Starbuck but seems to be getting obsessed w/con too!

March 11, 2014 at 6:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo and Con just love the attention. Gassy just likes to argue.

March 11, 2014 at 6:16 p.m.
nucanuck said...

conman is lucky to still have computer privileges! He must be in a LIBERAL institution.

March 11, 2014 at 6:20 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Eastern Ukraine was part of Mother Russia at her inception. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are more Russian than European.

From Wiki:

The Crimean Tatars emerged as a nation at the time of the Crimean Khanate. The Crimean Khanate was a Turkic-speaking Muslim state which was among the strongest powers in Eastern Europe until the beginning of the 18th century.

The Crimean Tatars mostly adopted Islam in the 14th century and thereafter Crimea became one of the centers of Islamic civilization. This was signified by Ozbeg Khan erecting the first mosqueand medrese in Eski Qırım in 1314.

Until the beginning of the 18th century, Crimean Tatars were known for frequent, at some periods almost annual, devastating raids into Ukraine and Russia. For a long time, until the early 18th century, the Crimean Khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East which was the most important basis of its economy.

After a period of political unrest in Crimea, Russia violated the treaty and annexed the Crimean Khanate in 1783. After the annexation, many Crimean Tatars were massacred and exiled into Siberia and under pressure of Slavic colonization, Crimean Tatars began to abandon their homes and move to the Ottoman Empire in continuing waves of emigration.

During Stalin's Great Purge, statesmen and intellectuals such as Veli Ibraimov and Bekir Çoban-zade (1893–1937), were imprisoned or executed on various charges. Soviet policies on the peninsula led to widespread starvation in 1921. Food was confiscated for shipment to central Russia, while more than 100,000 Tatars starved to death, and tens of thousands fled to Turkey or Romania.

Thousands more were deported or slaughtered during the collectivization in 1928–29. The government campaign led to another famine in 1931–33. No other Soviet nationality suffered the decline imposed on the Crimean Tatars; between 1917 and 1933 half the Crimean Tatar population had been killed or deported.

All Crimean Tatars were deported en masse, in a form of collective punishment, on 18 May 1944 as "special settlers" to Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic and other distant parts of the Soviet Union. 46.3% of the resettled population died of diseases and malnutrition. This event is called Sürgün in the Crimean Tatar language. Many of them were re-located to toil as indentured workers in the Soviet GULAG system.

I guess we can see how it became populated primarily by Russians ... About like Cowboys and Indians ... Right?

March 11, 2014 at 6:24 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Clearly the US had a hand in fomenting the coup in Kiev. Asst. Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland has stated publicly that the US has spent $5Billion to turn Ukraine toward Europe.

You say clearly but I don’t see anything but over-heated and vacuous rhetoric.

In a taped phone call (now public) she informed the US Ambassador to Ukraine who the next PM of Ukraine was to be shortly before the coup. That was no public uprising for freedom and liberty, that was a raw grab for power intended to hurt Russia and backed by the US government.

Doesn’t she work for the Obama administration?

Here is the text of her phone call ... care to show where she was planning a putsch inside Ukraine?

Saying ... “F^^k the EU” ... is hardly an unknown and little used term around the world....Right?

The US and Europe have long tried to peel away any and all countries with close ties to Russia and then include them in NATO, moving NATO military ever closer to the Russian border.

What’s wrong with the U.S. appealing to other countries to join it in joint cooperation?

March 11, 2014 at 6:46 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Before this is all over, Eastern (Orthodox) Ukraine is likely to rise up and insist on being part of Russia, leaving Western (Catholic) Ukraine as a separate country. That will give about 20 million impoverished people and Chernobyl to Europe to try to nurse to health. Good luck with that. Russia will likely end up with 22 million people and the more productive parts of Ukraine, all because of a huge neoconservative geopolitical blunder on the part of the US.

You mean Obama has had no hand in establishing our foreign policy over the last 5 years? I guess it’s another of those “I See Nothing ... I Hear Nothing ... I Know Nothing” deals that the neoCons confuse and trick him with ... Right?

March 11, 2014 at 6:54 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Gassy just likes to argue."

Here's an idea, Truth. Why don't we all just share the mindset as you? No discourse, it will just be standard caveman talk:

"Bennett Bad, Obama Bad, Liberals Bad, Conservatives Good, Palin Good, Creation Good"

Sounds like a whole lot of fun. Now, you want to talk about someone that likes to argue, Jt's your guy. He'll even call you a "Fleabagger" to boot.

March 11, 2014 at 7:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gassy. Find me one post where I've favored Palin or Creation. I'll wait.

March 11, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.
alprova said...

Looks like I've not missed very much today.

Tomorrow I've got s five hour infusion so I'll check in after that is done.

Good stuff Limric and nucanuck!!

Poor pt...his butt is hurting again.

March 11, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger:

I almost missed your latest false accusation concerning myself: "With the venom he spews on a daily basis, he deserves everything that is tossed his way."

Unfortunately for you, I didn't. You placed your short false accusation too close to my comment at 3:41 p.m. March 8, 2014 so I noticed it.

Now in the past, I have allowed you to run after I challenged you to prove your false accusations.

No more. I will continue to challenge you to substantiate your accusation OR admit your lie.

I only quoted Mr. Anthony Provancher at 3:41 p.m. March 8, 2014 WITH NO WORDS OF MY OWN. I also quoted the words of Jesus Christ who is the second person of the Trinity - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ was holy, sinless God incarnate.

TO DENY THAT JESUS IS GOD AND THAT HE SINNED IS EGREGIOUS BLASPHEMY!

No words of mine were added at all, so it was impossible for me to "spew venom." So, you are left with Mr. Anthony Provancer spewing venom. You couldn't possible mean Jesus Christ could you?

You attack me and now you tell me to leave you alone when I ask you to substantiate you charge of spewing venom. You have a lot of nerve

March 11, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

limric said...

It's as if when asked to build a drag strip, you construct a moto cross track and accuse the drag racers of being motorcycle haters.

Which makes perfect business sense considering drag racing is a dying sport due to it’s prohibitive expense to compete verses motocross’ less expense and greater access to a larger number of competitors. You really should select your analogies with greater care....Right?

March 11, 2014 at 8 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Sir, Barack Obama has been ignoring more crap than any man in history.

”I hear nothing! ... I see nothing!”” - Sergeant Barack O’Schultz

I'm sure he laughs his ass off at people like yourself, too dumb to realize that anything you write is a fart in the wind.

I’m absolutely sure that is his attitude towards the Hoi Polloi.

Black people in this nation, accused of malfeasance, are never prosecuted for any crime.

Not all ... but there is A.G. Holder.

Sir, I can neither prevent or augment what is destined to happen. Hillary is going to be the next President, like it or not.

It's in the bag, unless...she is caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl sometime within the next three years.

Those are items #34 and #104 in the opposition research files. The Koch brothers are spending 10’s to 100’s of million dollars to compile those files ... You know they are. There will be a steady stream of those type of things being released from early 2016 until the election. You’re going to absolutely sh!t your pants when you see the “October Surprise”.

March 11, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Z-man: Definition of sycophant (n)

syc·o·phant [ síkəfənt ]

1.fawning flatterer: a servile or obsequious person who flatters somebody powerful for personal gain.

Pray tell what possible gain have I achieved by "fawning" over our President, that is, that I could not have achieved had I joined you in total condemnation of the man?

Your undeserved and obese level of self-esteem and self-righteousness that you have developed through you slavish kneepad wearing near religious belief in the his brand of Fleabaggery.

He's certainly done me not one personal favor

It kinda sounds like being called a whore and I know I'm not one of those.

Of course it doesn’t apply to you ... after all you get compensated for your services ... and there’s a completely different word for that.

March 11, 2014 at 8:03 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Jt,

In your 6:24 post you apparently confused Eastern Ukraine and Crimea when relating to inception.

I like your comparison however, to Cowboys and Indians, but would take it back a bit earlier to the beginning of the European's North American arrival and their ongoing atrocities toward the indigenous peoples.

If your 6:26 post assumes I try to give Obama a pass, you would be assuming incorrectly. Obama, Bush, Clinton(s), Bush1 are/were all neoconservatives or at least complicit with them. Obama appointed a State Department full of neoconservatives and deserves full blame for their actions.

If you haven't read enough to see the clear path of US involvement in the Ukrainian coup, I suggest you keep reading. In the interest of brevity, I highlighted blatant offenses without trying to build a court case. I assume a smart boy like you can put the pieces together. The other option is to look the other way.

March 11, 2014 at 8:04 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpy: suggest you worry about your own butt and leave mine out of it.

March 11, 2014 at 8:24 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I don't know enough about this topic to even voice an opinion. But I do think conservative needs to be put out of everyone else's misery.

March 11, 2014 at 8:25 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I told that Ahole to leave me alone the other day. I haven't said a word to him since.

March 11, 2014 at 9:10 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Gassy. Find me one post where I've favored Palin or Creation. I'll wait."

That's the beauty about you Truth. You rarely ever come out pro or con on any issue. You then proceed to favor the people that are "conservative" in their politics and you side with them when attacking someone that may be more to the left. You also talk to people condescendingly to people that are more to the left.

March 11, 2014 at 9:15 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So gassy, you can't cite examples. Admit it.

March 11, 2014 at 9:20 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Being a christian is constant growth. What gives conservative the right to ride alpo every day about his christian views?. Get over it, clown. If you spent as much time developing your faith as you spend telling alprova how his is so bad, you might be pope by now

March 11, 2014 at 9:37 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

Jt,

In your 6:24 post you apparently confused Eastern Ukraine and Crimea when relating to inception.

Isn't this what you posted?

"Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are more Russian than European."

Did I not point out Crimea's history ... Or are you being disagreeable for its purpose alone?

March 11, 2014 at 10:39 p.m.
Hunter_Bluff said...

If we had lost Vietnam early on we could have saved about 58,000 American lives and untold treasure. Ditto Iraq and now Crimea.

How exactly would the US act if during one of our "local" invasions (Grenada 198, Dominican Republic 1965 for example) if the Russians were lecturing and threatening us in what we consider our backyard (our sphere of influence)?

March 15, 2014 at 7:44 p.m.
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