published Thursday, June 16th, 2011

Fighting Fraud

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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BigRidgePatriot said...

Whew, I was starting to worry that Clay had passed on and the TFP had sneaked in an imposter.

I see he is back to his mindless partisanship again.

June 16, 2011 at 12:33 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

A WONDERFUL CARTOON

It's really funny how frustrated and ticked and spitting mad poor Mr. Ridge gets with practically every cartoon Mr. Bennett offers up.

One might assume that living an idyllic life above the timber line would allay fears and lift the fog of paranoia. Happy to see that is not the case here.

Rant on, Mr. Ridge! Rant on!

June 16, 2011 at 1:02 a.m.
alprova said...

In New Mexico, Secretary of State Dianna Duran turned over about 64,000 cases of what she calls possible voter fraud to the State Department of Public Safety for investigation.

That's more than 10 percent of the 607,700 people who voted in the 2010 general election in New Mexico, and it's way more than the 37 cases of foreign nationals illegally voting that Duran mentioned at a legislative hearing earlier this year.

Duran mentioned 37 cases of illegal voting while testifying in favor of a bill that would have required voters to show photo identification at the polls before casting ballots. New Mexico's Voter ID bill, supported by Duran and Republican Gov. Susana Martinez, was tabled in March.

The most common example of the harm wrought by imprecise and inflated claims of "voter fraud" is the call for in-person photo identification requirements. Such photo ID laws are effective only in preventing individuals from impersonating other voters at the polls — an occurrence more rare than getting struck by lightning.

Voter fraud can be traced to causes far more logical than fraud by voters. Often, what appears to be voter fraud -- a person attempting to vote under a false name, for example, can be traced back to a typo.

The Following are many of the examples cited by Republicans as proof of voter fraud with more reasonable explanations for what actually happens;

Dead voters - Poll workers, when checking off deceased voters, will accidentally check off a person above or below the actual deceased.

Errors in registration records - Poll workers make simple data entry errors when someone registers to vote.

Errors in the underlying data - assumptions of fraud are laid if two people share the same first and last name, no matter how common those names are.

Partial matches - Charged individuals clear themselves of fraud accusations by pointing out that they have different middle names.

The "birthdate" problem - Statistics prove that in a group of 23 people, it is more likely than not that two will share the same month and day of birth. In a group of 180, two will probably share the same exact birthdate.

Dual registration - Registering twice or mistakenly leaving an old registration on the rolls, is not meaningful evidence of an intent to commit fraud by voting twice.

Death records - In addition to the problems with inaccurate matching identified above, a simple match of death records to voter rolls may conceal citizens who voted before dying. In Maryland in 2008, for example, an exhaustive investigation revealed that of 89 alleged deceased voters, none were actually dead at the time their ballots were cast.

(Cont.)

June 16, 2011 at 1:25 a.m.
alprova said...

(Cont.)

Criminal records - Many, if not most, convictions are misdemeanors, which in most states do not affect the defendant’s

Returned mail - Voter "caging" is a tactic involving a mass mailing to registered voters to sniff out mailings that are returned undelivered. These undelivered mailings are then used to compile a list of voters allegedly enrolled under invalid addresses. But for many reasons, undelivered mail is not necessarily an indication that a person registered at the given address is not entitled to vote there. A voter may be away from home for work.

Unusual addresses - In most states, voters must register at a residential address. Those looking for fraud may therefore flag addresses zoned for business use as an indication of fraudulent activity. Broad zoning restrictions, however, do not account for many less traditional, but legitimate residences.

Records compiled for a different purposes - In St. Louis in 2000, officials compared the voter rolls to city property records and alleged that some voters fraudulently registered from vacant lots. The property records, however, were originally compiled for a purpose other than individual identification. An address with multiple plots of land was apparently deemed entirely "vacant" if only one of the plots had no building. Further investigation by local reporters revealed that the supposedly vacant lots where voters were registered in fact contained valid residences.

People that are paying attention are noticing that the Republicans are up to no good. Along with going from state to state to eradicate unions, they are going from state to state in an effort to force anyone who casts a vote, show I.D. in order to be able to vote.

Anyone who thinks that any or all of the "problems" cited by the Republicans will be solved by showing I.D., think again. All that will be accomplished will be to attempt to prevent more of those least likely to vote for Republicans from voting at the polls.

How much of the above is being done intentionally in order to accomplish the same goal. Voter Caging is most certainly an intentional act and bragged about in many areas, and almost always targets registered Democrats.

Whatever the case is, there is one thing for sure. Republicans know that they can't win an election fair and square, so they'll try to do whatever they can to cheat and steal to win. We saw it in 2000 and in 2004 as well.

Nothing they try will work in 2012. Unless they change their tune, they will lose all that they gained in 2010.

June 16, 2011 at 1:25 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

I sleep so much better at night knowing the Republicans are hard at work, taking care of the real problems that plague our country. Jobs and the rotten economy? Peanuts compared to the more serious problems at hand... like wild and rampant VOTER FRAUD! Lord a' mercy, how did our country ever get this far by making it so easy for someone to vote? Well, the party is over, you spoiled and lazy fraudulent citizens. The Repubs are here to keep you honest. No photo, no vote. And hey, why don't you go pee in this cup while you're at it? Don't want no druggies votin' either. You go, Republicans! You make me proud to be an Amerikan.

June 16, 2011 at 2:11 a.m.
woody said...

Can anyone else say, "Overkill?"

Okay, I'm tired now..Woody

June 16, 2011 at 6:11 a.m.
WendyLohr said...

alprova, how'd the GOP make gains in A.D. 2010? By pointing out what messes the Democrats had made. The same tactic gives good prospects in A.D. 2012. (See two cartoons ago.)

And if ID for voting is so bad--it'd help with some of the problems you mentioned--why is ID for other purposes good?(Liberal hypocrites only apply a rule if it helps them.)

50 years ago, the problem was that only 2 of 10,000 blacks in a county were registered to vote. Now some people are trying to get as mad about minor hassles as they rightly were at that kind of abuse. Get some perspective, dude.

Have you paid SeaMonkey yet?

June 16, 2011 at 6:34 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

if you're so sure obama get reelected and the republicans will lose all of their 2010 gain, alprova, why don't you bet on it. oh!...i forgot, you're not good for it. anyway....

if you're not being paid by the democrart party, alprova..you ought to be.

another stupid-ass, cartoon ordered by the democrat party.

11/2/10 had nothing to do with fraud, alprova....nothing at all...it was pure rejection of obama's agenda.

nothing has changed since...nothing.

now listen carefully, alprova..and all you other libs.......democrats own voter fraud...they own it. there is no systematic republican effort at voter fraud......obama was mentored in the vote fraud capital of america...chicago. that's where i'm from and they invented the cocept of dead people voting..or at least took it to a new level.

the only way democrats will win in 2012 is by massive voter fraud...

democrats are the party of polling place intimidation.....and people voting twice.. and dead people voting...and illegal aliens voting........

i love how bennett and you libs try so hard to sweep things under the rug.......obama is doing what you libs accused bush of doing...going around congress and being imperial...

you forget alprova...that 11/2/10...the date you libs hate to remember..was a massive rejection at every level of government of democrats.........

you libs hate photo id's...hate them....which speaks volumes about your motives..

June 16, 2011 at 7:20 a.m.
Salsa said...

Won't help. In Chicago even the dead can vote. They do it every election.

June 16, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

Regardless of possible voter rules Obama will win. His approval rating today is 49%. His approval rating being the same number that pays zero taxes is a coincidence. If memory serves me right Carter is the only democrat incumbent to not win a second term in a century. It is a given Obama will win with support from:

o Blacks, Granolas, Hispanics, Muslims and other minorities.

o Democrats and all others with a liberal ideology.

o Females in general and a high % of female college grads.

o Government employees

o 50% of independents, he only needs 5-10%.

o Unions

No current challenger can overcome this advantage. To see the eventual results check out the news about Greece. Obama is akin to entering a donkey in the derby then betting the house on winning. Unfortunately No other nag appears to be a better bet. With no picture ID I won't have to make a choice but will be betting by default.

June 16, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I would think photo I.D. and shakedowns would be a part of Big Government that all of you neocons hate, SeeM on key!

June 16, 2011 at 8:23 a.m.

"Atlantic City Councilman Marty Small testifies others collected absentee ballots without him knowing in voter fraud case" (The Associated Press, Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 12:36 PM)

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/atlantic_city_councilman_marty_1.html

June 16, 2011 at 8:26 a.m.

"Falsified registrations become votes" by JOHN FUND (Politico, 11/2/08)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15189.html

June 16, 2011 at 8:27 a.m.

“Two Democrats indicted in Troy ballot scam case” by Kenneth C. Crowe Ii and Bob Gardinier (Troy Times Union, January 28, 2011)

(http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Two-Democrats-indicted-in-Troy-ballot-scam-case-982948.php#ixzz1E9L6HwYr)

“The men are accused of systematically forging signatures on absentee ballots at either the county office building or somewhere in the city during the buildup to the Sept. 15, 2009 Working Families Party primary. Many of the questionable ballots were filed under the names of students and some of the city's poorest residents, many who live in Troy Housing Authority apartments.

"Many are the less fortunate of Rensselaer County. A good number do not speak English as a first language and have difficulty communicating in English. One is deaf and can communicate effectively only in sign language,’ Smith said describing the victims.”

June 16, 2011 at 8:28 a.m.
bret said...

Any discussion of voter fraud wouldn't be complete without a mention of the 1994 Presidential election where George Bush stole Ohio and as a result, the Presidency. They did it using computers right here in Chattanooga owned by a company called SMARTech, located in the basement of the old Pioneer Bank building. The votes were routed to the SMARTech computers and then back to Ohio to Ken Blackwell, who was not only the Ohio Sec. of State but also the Chief Elections Official of Ohio and honorary co-chair of the "Committee to re-elect George W. Bush" during the 2004 election.

SMARTech also hosted both the RNC website as well as George Bush's official website. In 2004, the RNC paid SMARTech $2,275,081 for their services. In 2006, it was up to $3,330,833. Not bad for a little web hosting, huh?

These are all documented facts that for some reason have never made the national news cycle. I remember very clearly that election night when the exit polls showed Kerry winning Ohio, but the actual results were far different than the exit polling. That is extremely rare since most people have no reason to lie after they've already voted, and I remember the reporters that night being confused by the discrepancy. The exit polling was very accurate in every other state except Ohio. If anyone doubts what I'm saying, you can do a quick Google search of SMARTech or Ken Blackwell, including his history with Diebold, the makers of the electronic voting machines, to confirm what I'm saying is the God's truth. George Bush stole the 2004 election.

June 16, 2011 at 8:50 a.m.
limric said...

Who are these bat wielding fools?

I feel as though I'm living in the movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"!

The Pod People (Republicans) are taking over...a well-orchestrated agenda real humans seem unable to defeat (unlike "War of the Worlds," where microbes killed the aliens).

We need to reinstate the collective tradition of "shunning," based on opprobrium. If you encounter a "regressive," (pod person) look past him, and into the future.

Some posting here may recall the struggle to pass the 26th Amendment. The real election fraud is eligible people not getting their votes counted, not ineligible people voting.

The Pod People hate playing fair. In fact, they have thrown over the card table! They've gutted the Treasury. They created more long-term unemployment than anyone can remember. They have turned what were once assets (home ownership; mortgage) into underwater liabilities. They have ravaged the rights of public employees. They disdain the Constitution (“It’s just piece of paper”). And now they seek to disenfranchise voters selectively by following in the footsteps of Stalin, “It’s not the people who vote that count; It's the people who count the votes.” With the ultimate goal of a return to our roots when only white landholding men could vote to determine the course of this greatest nation in the history.

The Pod People obviously have a Central Planning Committee. Else it would be highly unlikely that a bunch of state legislatures and governors would pursue nearly identical goals with nearly identical political rhetoric, using the same subliminal calls to the most selfish instincts within us, when the opposite is required.

The Proles anger is growing increasingly lucid. We will not permit the Pod People to defeat humans (after all, if they are victorious they will have no sentience left to try to copy). And Pod People don't make love; they just f-ck people. The replication it seems was defective; certain human genes are missing from them, perhaps replaced by some DNA/RNA string manufactured by Monsanto. Yet they replicate, each generation more corrupt than the last. "These are the hollow men" that "try men's souls."

June 16, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

GREAT cartoon, Clay Bennett. It tells it like it is. Indeed, there are lots of legitimate issues that urgently need to be addressed, but this would require an honest appraisal of what’s actually wrong with our political process. And, clearly, the Republicans are not up to initiating anything that might actually open the door to reform and lead to a meaningful change. There would simply be too much explaining to do, particularly in the areas of campaign ethics, disclosures, financing, and extravagant political perks.

June 16, 2011 at 9:17 a.m.
tderng said...

ummm...lets see.Who was it that didn't want to let military votes from deployed military count in 2008? Oh yeah that was the democrats.Who had people standing outside of a polling place intimidating white voters?Oh yeah,democratic leaning black panthers.Democrats own voter fraud and certain liberals here are as delusional as ever.

June 16, 2011 at 9:31 a.m.
mymy said...

I have said before that the environment one grows up in, the people that influence you throughout your life makes a difference. With Obama this could not be more evident. The left is determined to destroy the goose that laid the golden egg: this country. They want to take us back to what our forefather escaped. Who wants to go there. Let’s not forget ACORN and his ties. Whatever the cost to get my old face back on my old driver’s license, I will be happy to pay. It is cheap compared to the consequences of Voter Fraud. Below is a good article about Obama’s ties to ACORN.

Inside Obama’s Acorn By their fruits ye shall know them.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/224610/inside-obamas-acorn/stanley-kurtz

June 16, 2011 at 9:32 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Limric wrote: "Who are these bat wielding fools?I feel as though I'm living in the movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"!The Pod People (Republicans) are taking over...a well-orchestrated agenda real humans seem unable to defeat (unlike "War of the Worlds," where microbes killed the aliens)."

Great post, Limric. And needless to say, we know only too well who owns and plants these particular “pods.” Wendell Berry’s description is my personal favorite:

“The corporate mind at work overthrows all the virtues of the personal mind, or it throws them out of account. The corporate mind knows no affection, no desire that is not greedy, no local or personal loyalty, no sympathy, or reverence, or gratitude, no temperance or thrift or self-restraint. It does not observe the first responsibility of intelligence, which is to know when you don’t know or when you are being unintelligent. Try to imagine an official standing up in the high councils of a global corporation or a great public institution to say, “We have grown to big,” or “We now have more power than we can responsibly use,” or “We must treat our employees as our neighbors,” or “We must count ourselves as members of this community,” or “We must preserve the ecological integrity of our work place,” or “Let us do unto others as we would have them to do unto us” – and you will see what I mean.” [“The Way of Ignorance” - Wendell Berry]

June 16, 2011 at 9:46 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

DANG RIGHT! Voting fraud killed all those people in the room voting legally (good citizens with the right to vote here) and the GOP has stormed in to kill fraud. Good work GOP and Bennett. Ya got one right, even if you didn't mean to.

June 16, 2011 at 10:09 a.m.
limric said...

Best BS quote of the week,democrats own voter fraud...they own it. there is no systematic republican effort at voter fraud.”

OHHH….. You mean like the voter registration fraud in Nevada? Where a private voter registration firm, Voters Outreach of America, trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters? Lo and behold - Voter Outreach of America worked for the National Republican Party. The Republican National Committee acknowledged that it hired Voters Outreach of America to register voters, but said it had zero tolerance for any kind of fraud. Yea right! Ha ha ha.

And guess what! In Oregon, the same company, now operating by the name of America Votes (which is actually the name of a Democratic organization), was criticized for its tactics in signing up voters. Hmm… why has this company used the name of a Democratic organization as it signs up voters here and in Oregon? It couldn’t be FRAUD could it? Oh Nooo.

OR… in Wisconsin. Republican recall petitions to disqualify thousands of invalid signatures, and recall elections against three Democratic state senators was rejected. Why you ask? Because widespread and systemic election fraud tainted the entire GOP operation. I’ll repeat that – louder , BECAUSE WIDESPREAD AND SYSTEMATIC ELECTION FRAUD TAINTED THE ENTIRE GOP OPERATION "Overwhelming evidence clearly shows a pervasive pattern of election fraud committed by the shady out-of-state organization hired by Republicans to collect recall petitions." There was wholesale election fraud by a disreputable out-of-state firm hired by Wisconsin Republicans to collect signatures. Kennedy Enterprises received $100,000 from the Republican Party of Wisconsin to circulate recall petitions.

No systematic republican effort at voter fraud.” Whoo Ha ha ha. Cough cough. STFU pod person.

June 16, 2011 at 10:16 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

limric, don't use second-hand stories from web sites and stories released through the media by associations with ties to one party or another as fact. And you mean that great bastion in socialist America - Wisconsion - rejected a GOP recall? No!

June 16, 2011 at 10:22 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alprova reported: “The most common example of the harm wrought by imprecise and inflated claims of "voter fraud" is the call for in-person photo identification requirements. Such photo ID laws are effective only in preventing individuals from impersonating other voters at the polls — an occurrence more rare than getting struck by lightning.”

Wow! Very informative and helpful post. Thanks, Alprova. I think I’ll pass this information on to some of my Republican representatives. I can understand why the public might not be aware of these things, but not a representative. You'd think they would do at least a little research on this kind of thing before rushing to waste the taxpayer's dollars. (Sigh)

June 16, 2011 at 10:27 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

obama will not get 50% of independents....not even close...he'll be lucky if gets any. no one likes to be made to look like a fool.

the young have left him in droves...to them he's just another warring hypocrite...there're not going to get pumped for him

as much as 45% of this country is either underemployed or unemployed..combined....

your assessement, harp, of all the other candidates is similar to the libs'.......this idea that he has it in the bag is a myth perpetuated often enough baed on his phony popularity..

regarding 49%,,,that's quite high...i've seen it as low as 45%

females will not turn out for him as they did before.....they won't fall for his smooth talk again.

he's lost votes with blacks who have lost jobs, are underemployed and who own business... he's lost nearly all of them......the unemployment rate for black men under obama is extremly high...

the cost living..gas, food, electric and much more is only going to get worse.....

muslims? ..yeah..i dont' think so.....

obama has lost the anti-war movement folks......completely....

he'll win california, washington, new york (city), illinois(chicago), hawaii , mass, dela..and dc....that's it....

he'll lose the southwest, the plains states, the mountain states, all the midwest states except for illiniois, he'll lose every southern state...he'll lose florida...

sorry..november 2nd 2010...was a big deal....local, state and national..democrats were handed an historic asskicking...and obama and the libs have done nothing since to change minds...

republicans will win the senate in 2012 and will have the house again.....

June 16, 2011 at 10:33 a.m.
limric said...

whatsnottaken,

Factual stories released 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand by associations you don’t agree with or know about is irrelevant. You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

June 16, 2011 at 10:37 a.m.
potcat said...

The Times Free Press had several articles on Ken Blackwell, Diebold and SMARTech during the 2004 Presidental election and i also remenber reading about it in the New Yorker and Vanity Fair. bret , it was reported on but most people either don't read or ignore it as partisan journalism.

~` tderg, deployed military votes in the 2004 Presidental election and Acorn are lies sponsored by the Republican party and then planted to the media, who then report it and people like you take it as the truth. Its like the big Christmas blowups every year about displays and Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. Its not Democrats or anyone else, its the lying offended outraged Republicans who with their fake indignation make it a issue and then throw it out there as a Liberal thing. Its a Dirty Lying underhanded thing to do, but thats the Republicans Mode of operation through and through.

June 16, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.

I've yet to see any cartoons about Obama breaking the war powers acts or being engaged in 4 different engagements without a congressional declaration of war.

June 16, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Touched a nerve, eh, limric. Better get back to those blog sites. Remember, everything you read there is fact.

June 16, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Mymy proclaimed: “The left is determined to destroy the goose that laid the golden egg: this country. . . Let’s not forget ACORN and his ties."

And Mark Jacoby? Has this guy been completely erased from your voter fraud memory bank? Indeed, if you’re truly concerned with voter fraud, I think you should remember someone who was arrested and actually sentenced for voter fraud – of course, Mark Jacoby was a Republican operative so maybe this is why you’ve managed to forget:

“Remember October, 2008? Remember how McCain and Palin went all shrilly over ACORN allegedly fraudulently registering voters before they didn't? The only thing that stopped them (not that it stopped the shrilly teabaggers and Republicans later) was the arrest of Mark Jacoby on October 20, 2008. He was arrested for fraud and perjury, pled guilty on June 16, 2009 to voter-registration fraud and is now serving 3 years probation. . . For all the heat Republicans put on ACORN, the only actual voter fraud conviction was Mark Jacoby's. He was sentenced to 30 days of Cal-Trans work and 3 years probation.”

http://crooksandliars.com/taxonomy/term/1786,12652

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/10/21/us-california-votefraud-idUSTRE49K0A120081021

June 16, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.

Obama hasn't broken the War Powers Act. Our troops have not engaged in direct combat in Libya one time. His actions were legal.

June 16, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.
alprova said...

WendyLohr wrote: "alprova, how'd the GOP make gains in A.D. 2010? By pointing out what messes the Democrats had made. The same tactic gives good prospects in A.D. 2012. (See two cartoons ago.)"

People like yourself love to spread lies.

"And if ID for voting is so bad--it'd help with some of the problems you mentioned--why is ID for other purposes good?(Liberal hypocrites only apply a rule if it helps them.)"

That's the point. It won't address such problems mentioned above that are the real problems.

"50 years ago, the problem was that only 2 of 10,000 blacks in a county were registered to vote. Now some people are trying to get as mad about minor hassles as they rightly were at that kind of abuse. Get some perspective, dude."

My perspective on this issue is digested above. What a shame that you did not read it.

"Have you paid SeaMonkey yet?"

That's none of your business. I'd ask you to mind your own business, but that's not your style, is it? You've got your nose in everyone else's business, don't you?

June 16, 2011 at 12:21 p.m.
alprova said...

tdrng wrote: "Who had people standing outside of a polling place intimidating white voters?Oh yeah,democratic leaning black panthers.Democrats own voter fraud and certain liberals here are as delusional as ever."

You think I'm delusional? Then do me a favor. And this is open to anyone who thinks they can do it.

Find one news story of that incident that occurred on election day 2008, that states that one person filed a complaint with the Philadelphia Police Department alleging that the Black Panthers intimidated anyone who was white, to the point that they were too fearful to enter that building to vote.

Not one person on this planet filed a complaint.

June 16, 2011 at 12:34 p.m.
tderng said...

CashingRealityChecks said...Obama hasn't broken the War Powers Act. Our troops have not engaged in direct combat in Libya one time. His actions were legal.

So I guess that our Navy pilots aren't considered troops?

June 16, 2011 at 12:47 p.m.

@ Tderng - I should have clarified. GROUND TROOPS. According to the War Powers Resolution, the president cannot sustain attacks for more than 60 days without congressional approval. He pulled them back after a week and NATO has taken over operations. That's hardly 60 days.

June 16, 2011 at 1:26 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

good point, leslie. "want to make illegal immigration a crime" along with "we need to pass the bill in order to see what's in it"...sum up the lunacy that is the democrat party in the year 2011 quite well.........only those who want to perpetuate voter fraud are opposed to a photo id for voting. they can toss in all the sophistry and libspeak they want....but they approve of corruption as long as it benefits them......

the republican party has corrupt individuals in it......but, corruption is not institutionalized like it is in the democrat party.....that's crystal clear.

i suggest you libs read david mamet's new book, the secret knowledge. it details how he came to the realization that liberalism is garbage and how it's destroying america.

enjoy

June 16, 2011 at 2:44 p.m.
fairmon said...

seamonkey,

Voter fraud must be in play if my candidate doesn't win. That seems to be the theme for both parties. It is not my fault is a normal mind set in today's world. Our education system avoids any winners or losers among students, parity is the prevailing principle.

Obama only needs 5% of independents to win. What other group will not be in the majority for his shared sacrifice, redistribute the wealth, vote yourself wealth from the public treasury socialist agenda? This generation is typically more socialist and the next one will be even more so. The accurate term of our future is equally impoverished. Obama is the wobbliest we have ever had but a majority defend his fumbles and destructive behavior.

His opponents are not being honest with people and indicate they will continue providing for the 49% that contribute nothing to the well being of the country but have become dependent on government. People don't have the nerve to risk change although they react to the word favorably. Remember the chant we must have change and yes we can without details but with promises of better days. That will work for him again, just tell people what they want to hear, Which opponent can do that better then Obama?

June 16, 2011 at 3:29 p.m.
mymy said...

Maybe Ann Coulter got it right in her new book Domonic: How the liberal mob is endangering America.

The demon is a mob, and the mob is demonic. The Democratic Party activates mobs, depends on mobs, coddles mobs, publicizes and celebrates mobs—it is the mob. Sweeping in its scope and relentless in its argument, Demonic explains the peculiarities of liberals as standard groupthink behavior. To understand mobs is to understand liberals.

June 16, 2011 at 3:58 p.m.
limric said...

I’ve read Mamets book. It's OK, but Mamet is a playwright. Theater and political theater are not the same, and Mamet mistakes his own contribution. On the political stage, Mamet is not a dramatist; he is merely acting.

In it he describes living his entire life, until a few years ago, in a leftist monoculture; he had never met a Conservative nor been exposed to a Conservative idea.

Think about that for a minute.

A subculture which holds "diversity" as one of its highest goals completely excludes diversity of thought and ideas. An educated man, successful as a playwright and author, had never been exposed to diversity of thought.

I don’t buy it.

While an entertaining personal rant, he added little to the political conversation that hasn’t been said before. I find that I am still ruminating on it, and will no doubt return to it to supplement my own writing style. Even though I question his integrity, I still encourage those of all political stripes to read it.

June 16, 2011 at 4:26 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

i still maintain that 11/2/10 is a sign of things to come rather than just another mid-term election. i also still maintain that voter fraud is owned by the democrat party. obama's victory in 2008 was not due to voter fraud. he won fair and square at the polls. he did lie, of course...about who he was and what he would do...but that's another story.

obama has done nothing to improve his image since 11/2/10..nothing.....nobody gives a crap about bin laden if they don't have a job. if people vote their pocketbooks....like they usually do...obama will not win. he's not so clever that he can convince people that the cost of living is lower than it is and they have a job when they don't..

people i run into either don't like him, are disapointed in him or don't believe him as they once did. i don't believe he's at 49% at all...i'd say he's lucky if he's at 43%....polls vary greatly, but i don't believe half the people in this counry approve of this guy...no way......

bill clinton never got the numbers this guy is said to be getting.....and bill clinton was a much more likable guy than obama.....things are worse than they were 4 years ago...no one can deny it. many voters will look at it that way...they don't have the patience to wait for the country to be "transformed"...

i don't see obama winning the states he needs to win...just don't see it at all.....you have to look at whats going on locally and state wide...and it's awful for democrats at every level.

June 16, 2011 at 6:05 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

a new gallup poll..between june 9th and 12th..shows a generic republican at 44%, obama at 39% and 18% undecided or whatever they term it.......sorry, but that doesn't look good for obama.

that's a lot of undecided. even if he got half of those undecided it doesn't it doesn't look that good.

don't tell me those undecided are going to ignore the cost of living, price of gas, utility bills that will go up, the grotesque unemployment and underemployment numbers...and all the crappy business climate..

June 16, 2011 at 7:57 p.m.
dude_abides said...

SeaMonkey...The republicans that have announced are quite possibly the weakest bunch of me-too also-rans that either party has ever trotted out. Obama will stay above the fray as these breathless idiots prove to the nation that none of them need to be listened to, and coast in on gravitas, ala Clinton '96. I hope they kick Ron Paul to the curb early, so that he can help siphon off some of the republitarians. Deep down you know this, don't you?

June 16, 2011 at 9:38 p.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

One thing is clear. tBaggers and the founding fathers had one thing in common.

The desire to have only property owning white men voting.

And while I'm on the subject, can one of you enlightened, reasonable and objective observing tBaggers explain to me why Fred Karger is banned from the Republican debates?

June 16, 2011 at 10:07 p.m.
alprova said...

Sea Creature, here's some polling data that you apparently refuse to acknowledge, because it may upset you.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 36% of Likely GOP Primary Voters think it would be good for Republicans if Palin enters the race, but 45% believe it would be bad for the party. Just 11% say it would have no impact.

Thirty-six percent (36%) also feel it would be good for the GOP if Texas Governor, Rick Perry enters the race. Only 21% say it would be bad for the party, while 26% think it would have no impact. Sixteen percent (16%) are not sure.

Click Here for a link to the report

Clearly, the Republicans need more people to jump into the race that most people have never heard of, that is if they are determined to lose in 2012. No Republican, in controlled voting has ranked any higher than 33% among their own members. How in the world do they think that any one of their candidates is going to rank enough votes to go up against President Obama?

They can't and they will not.

June 16, 2011 at 10:19 p.m.
tderng said...

after looking at this cartoon again,I see the hidden message...It is the republican party that is after voter fraud! What I take from this is that at least ONE party is trying!Good job Clay,or who ever you are!

June 17, 2011 at 8:51 a.m.
fairmon said...

Obama will win with the obvious support of all granolas, blacks, muslims, gays, unions , majority of wall st., most people don't realize he is favored by many wall streeters, plus the loyal democrats that would vote for him even if the country were in a full blown recession. Considering this and no opponent that can promise the government will provide for them if needed through the magic of D.C., how can he not win? No opponent is willing to be open and honest about the economy and the need to significantly raise taxes which would certainly not gain support.

seamonkey,

I agree he is an incompetent economic idiot that will promise anything to get elected. I am sure his strategy will do it for him again and he will do it to us even worse his second term. He will probably continue having difficulty keeping cabinet members that are competent while keeping those like the head of FEMA and the AG. The problem is I don't see a challenger that would by any better. Through out history governments have grown, expanded control as encouraged by the people. Every great dynasty evolved to dependence then oppression.

You saw the post here about wiener and how many didn't think being credible was important and defended his response and behavior. It is a sad fact neither party is trusted by responsible people, the voter turn out will probably be much less than the last time which will favor Obama in 2012.

June 17, 2011 at 8:55 a.m.
tderng said...

alprova...I do believe that as candidates drop out of the Republican race their votes will go to other candidates don't you? They won't just disappear.The numbers will rise as time goes by,especially after the early caucuses.By the time for the Republican national convention next summer all will be clear.The lefts attempts to belittle the Republican candidates is just another leftist try at deceiving the American public about the real world.

June 17, 2011 at 9:08 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Mymy said: “Who knows how many of those votes were cast thus Voter Fraud - caught and convicted or not.”

Actually, MyMY, we do know some general things about this issue. . . . To date, there are no known cases of fictitious people actually voting or trying to vote. . . Evidence shows that the culprits who created these fictitious voters were doing it strictly for the money. . . And the best way to reduce the potential for this kind of fraud is to simply reduce the temptation, which means paying the individuals hired to register voters by the hour instead of paying them by quotas or the number of people they register.

June 17, 2011 at 9:12 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why is there such a push to register voters unwilling to take the initiative to use the easy state provided process of registration?The state should include serving those unable to follow the normal process in their registration accommodation. You would have to question the ability of anyone to vote that is unable to follow the normal process. Those disabled and unable to be mobile that may vote absentee should be accommodated by the registrars office. It is probably an ADA issue not to do so.

Registering a bus load of illiterates then telling them how to vote then busing them to the polls certainly doesn't seem ethical.

June 17, 2011 at 10:03 a.m.
woody said...

I would hope..mine could be the 'final' word on this subject, but I know it will not be..mostly because some here have to have something to use as a reason to bring down someone or something else. And, if what was going on these days in the name of cleaning up voter fraud was actually for the right reasons, then nothing else need be said.

However, that is not the case.

Let me first state..yes..voting fraud has been carried out for scores and scores of years, by more than just one or two parties, I might add..in some cities where votes were bought for as little as a drink or two before a nice bus ride to the polls. And, yes..more than one city machine (Chicago being the most notorious) could likely be tied to "dead people voting."

But let me also share another case of 'voter fraud' brought to my attention since the 2010 elections "The Saltwater Simian" is constantly throwing out there..it would appear as though a certain election commission worker, on the job for about a half dozen years, was apparently found to also be a former convict who had lost his/her voting privileges and never sought to have them restored, legally.

The discovery took place after the 2010 elections..after this dastardly person actually had the gall and temerity to go to the polls and vote for his/her candidates of choice. A year, I might add, when the local turnout was less than 40% of those actually qualified to vote.

So, now let's recap..60% of registered voters didn't think enough to get out and vote, but one person who shouldn't have voted did because he/she felt the need or desire to. A blatant case of voter fraud for sure..but when weighed against this person's patriotism as opposed to the 60% who felt no obligation whatsoever..it's one of those situations that makes you want to go hmmmmm.

Okay, the floor is now open..Woody

June 17, 2011 at 10:26 a.m.
BobMKE said...

You use/show your ID card (s) for:

Driver’s License/ID when asked by a Law Enforcement Officer Cashing a check Applying for employment, welfare, any kind of benefits, etc. At a Bank, Credit Union, and Savings & Loan etc. Hotels/Motels Renting a movie, equipment at a rent-a-center, Airports Applying for a Casino Players Card Receiving a give away at a Casino Buying a car, boat etc.& securing a loan for same

NOW WHICH ONE OF THE ABOVE LISTED IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SHOWING AN ID WHEN VOTING??????

June 17, 2011 at 10:37 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

AL GOT IT RIGHT

Go back and read Al's post yesterday at 1:25 a.m. He explained in great detail the various examples of voter 'fraud,' and why it's not really as dire at one might suspect. No one else has offered a better explanation or disputed one of his claims.

The 'issue' of 'Voter fraud' is just another example of that tried and true GOP election gimmick: Tell voters what to be afraid of who is to blame and they will vote for your candidate.

These are the guys that ginned up intel on Saddam Hussain's WMD program and implied he wanted to rain nuclear terror on America. These are the guys who drove the economy into a ditch and now blame Obama for not getting us back on track quickly enough. These are the guys who claim that no jobs have been created when there has actually been positive private sector job every month growth for over a year. Not as much as we need to kick start the economy. That's true. But when Obama took office the economy was bleeding one million jobs per month.

Sorry he stopped the bleeding. Sorry the patient isn't recovering faster, but he had lost a lot of blood.

Most of the crap right wingers shovel on this sight is based on fear and designed to get you to vote against Obama. Not for the GOP candidate, whatever light weight they come up with. Just vote against Obama because he's a Muslim!, he's a socialist anti-colonial nazi terrorist. Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm sure a flock of tea baggers are about to unleash another barrage of scare tactics. I'm sure I'll be attacked personally, I'm sure my patriotism will be questioned, and I don't really care.

To quote Shrub, bring it on.

June 17, 2011 at 11:28 a.m.
mymy said...

RightON Bob

Now back to the 2012 election:

No Plan No Clue N0bama

apparently its catching on....

After what Obama has and has not done for America, you would have to be a total MORON or one of his relatives to vote for him again. Now you know which one you are.

June 17, 2011 at 11:38 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

sorry, woody..i maintain , and always will, that although voter fraud and corruption can be found anywhere..no matter what party, it's not institutionalized like it is in the modern democrat party. that's crystal clear......if i would assign a % to it ..it would be 95% democrat party and 5% repulbican/ other parties....no doubt about it.

harp,

i think the voter turnaround will be dramatically less for democrats...huge drop off...those pumped about getting obama out will turn out in huge numbers like they did in the 2010 mid-terms.

as far as there not being a challenger that's any better.....i don't see that.... yeah, as far as being as skillful a liar, he's by the far the best. he's lost his charisma and isn't going to fool anyone twice.......everytime he goes on tv he gets less viewers...the crowds keep diminishing at his appearances...the curiosity factor is gone. he's a proven liar and hypocrite and has no answers. he's only good at agitating, and at this point....people have had their fill of that crap from him. they want solutions, and he has none. he's an empty suit.

i don't see the states going his way..i just don't...except for the obvious ones... delaware, maryland, california, new york (city), illinois (chicago), d.c. and hawaii..are the only ones he has in the bag at this point. i that's not enough.

dude, you knuckleheads always want a star/demagogue....he got in there once.....he's lost it.. he's not going to fool the same people twice.......he's no bill clinton......jimmy carter was liked personally, but voters couldn't wait to get rid of him after one term.....

sorry, alprova......but you have to look at 11/2/10...and the democrat party wipeout at every level.. that's not going to change......that wasn't a poll, it was real. things will be gettin significantly worse by the election....food prices will rise and utility bills will rise too....as long as obama is in office small to medium size businesses, which employ most of the people in this country, will continue to be slow to hire and expand. the underemployment numbers will continue to grow.

it will become even more apparent by the election that obama has no answers..because nothing will change. he continues on in his attempts to fullfill his agenda no matter what the reality is out there. the epa will continue to try and bankrupt the coal industry and more layoffs will folllow, not to mention higher utitlity bill for everyone... he can lie, but people will go by what thy're experiencing.

his "star power" is overblown..big time.....it's dropping like a brick in water....

June 17, 2011 at 11:42 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

there's no need to have a "star" running against him...that's how bad it is out there.....his image is not improving, it's deteriorating fast.........the analysis of the republican candidates is absurd. it's nothing but a mad dash to get another mccain in there by the liberal media.....you libs and the media underestimate the disgust with obama and the libs out there....the dropping prices of homes, worst since the depression, is a big deal...a really big deal. 11/2/10 cannot be mentioned enough...it was a total rejection...of extremist liberal policy..and obama, who is the poster boy for that.

June 17, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
limric said...

Question: NOW WHICH ONE OF THE ABOVE LISTED IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SHOWING AN ID WHEN VOTING?

Answer: Driver’s License/ID when asked by a Law Enforcement Officer.
The reason should be obvious.

June 17, 2011 at 11:51 a.m.
dave said...

Perhaps we could at least have a alternative cartoonist...so that we could have BALANCE. The left wing rhetoric Clay depicts is beyond nauseating.

June 17, 2011 at 12:17 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

So, can I assume this cartoon is about "over-the-top voting requirements" like requiring proof of citizenship and government issued photo ID's to vote?

Are we to believe that measures like that are something akin to wading into a room with a baseball bat and beating the crap out of all occupants in the room, and the room, as we try to attack a fly-like triviality like voter fraud?

This cartoon is a pretty good demonstration of how the left leaning mind works. Create a scary, horrific image of a common sense idea so the idea might be quashed.

In my opinion, if someone does not have enough on the ball that they cannot manage to bring a photo ID to the voting booth I do not want them having a voice in anything related to politics. The next thing you know, lefties will want to line up death row inmates, citizens of other countries and the criminally insane to vote. The only standard the left would like to apply to voters is that they belong to some demographic that tends to vote for left politicians.

June 17, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
rick1 said...

BW48 let us look at Obama's economy. It is Obama's economy according to DNC Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Unemployed Americans Inauguration Day 12 Million Today 13.9 Million

Unemployment Rate Inauguration Day 7.8% Today 9.1%

Gas Prices Inauguration Day $1.85 Today $3.71

Federal Debt Inuguration Day $10.6 Trillion Today $14.3 Trillion

Debt Per Person Inuguration Day $34,731 Today $46,042

Food Stamp Recipients Inuguration Day 32 Million Today 45 Million

Health Insurance Premiums Inuaguration Day $3,354 Today $3,997

Home Values Inuaguration Day $193,400 Today $169,600

So it was wrong to use force against Hussien despite hundreds of mass graves containing hundreds of thousand of bodies despite using chemical weapons on his own people. Wouldn't you call chemical weapons WMD's?

But when Clinton was in office it was OK to use force against the government of Yugoslavia, which had no WMD and had never harmed or threatened anyone outside Yugoslavia.

June 17, 2011 at 12:23 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Back to the subject of School Superintendant, I like Rick Smith already.

http://www.newschannel9.com/news/smith-1002149-principals-wants.html

June 17, 2011 at 12:29 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Has anyone registered a vehicle lately? ID requirements are more stringent for vehicle registration than they are for voting.

Where is the outrage about ID requirements at the DMV?

June 17, 2011 at 12:36 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

SeaMonkey said... "those pumped about getting obama out will turn out in huge numbers like they did in the 2010 mid-terms"

I think you have this correct. Those pumped about getting Obama out are the most motivated group in the country right now. It is easy to imagine the get-rid-of-obama-at-any-cost crowd growing as we get closer to the 2012 elections.

The MSM confuses quiet, careful study of the GOP field with an uninspired group of voters.

June 17, 2011 at 12:55 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mymy said... Maybe Ann Coulter got it right,"To understand mobs is to understand liberals"

Maybe? She nailed it.

June 17, 2011 at 1:01 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 suggested: “Go back and read Al's post yesterday at 1:25 a.m. He explained in great detail the various examples of voter 'fraud,' and why it's not really as dire at one might suspect. . . . The 'issue' of 'Voter fraud' is just another example of that tried and true GOP election gimmick: Tell voters what to be afraid of who is to blame and they will vote for your candidate.”

Are you suggesting all of this hoopla that the Republican politicians have created about “voter fraud” is actually a fraudulent issue, Blackwater48? If so, I think you're right.

June 17, 2011 at 1:13 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mountainlaurel said... "... this hoopla that the Republican politicians"

You mean, of course, the hoopla created by Clay Bennett (and the rest of the progressive machine as they try to ensure the lowest common denominator and the fraudulent have a fast track to the voting booth).

June 17, 2011 at 1:25 p.m.
tderng said...

BigRidgePatriot said...The MSM confuses quiet, careful study of the GOP field with an uninspired group of voters.

BRP, thats because the MSM are leftists...they vote with their heart not their head.This makes it easy to keep them in line,make a few remarks about how the right is so mean and they are rich "fat cats" and the lefts hearts begin to flutter and they repeat the same in a mantra..."fat cats",fat cats""meanies","meanies", "meanies","fat cats","fat cats.... oh yeah... :) (tnx leaf!)

June 17, 2011 at 1:37 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

tderng,

I agree completely. That is why Clay Bennett is so popular with that crowd. On his best days he reduces an argument to an emotion laden image.

June 17, 2011 at 1:43 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

On his worst days, he gives us something like the cliff notes for school super thing, a still life with a progressive message superimposed.

June 17, 2011 at 1:45 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

LET'S SEE THE ENTIRE PICTURE

Rick, your 12:23 post compared the last two years. Go back to 2001 and run the same point by point economic comparison through 2009. You may use your findings to explain how in the last 18 months of the Shrub administration the United States lost 20% of its net wealth.

For extra credit, go back to when Pappy Shrub moved into the White House in January of 1989 and run the same comparisons through the Clinton Administration.

You'll see trickle down economics raises the debt, puts more money in the pockets of millionaires, and drives up unemployment. Turning around that economic momentum is like trying to u-turn an oil tanker. Democrats clean up the mess, reverse the trends, and are routinely blamed for the economy they inherit.

Then post your findings here along with a heartfelt apology.

And while you're comparing, let's see the number of combat deaths in both the Iraq War and the Bosnian War. Okay, I'll give you a hint.

The total number of American combat fatalities in the Bosnian War stands today at:

One.

June 17, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

blackwater still believes in Keynesian economics? How hard for how long do you have to beat some people over the head with reality before they see the light of day? Forever?

June 17, 2011 at 2:36 p.m.
BobMKE said...

limric said... Question: NOW WHICH ONE OF THE ABOVE LISTED IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SHOWING AN ID WHEN VOTING?

Answer: Driver’s License/ID when asked by a Law Enforcement Officer. The reason should be obvious.

limric, I agree with you. Now, the NEXT important reason would be ___???? If you and any of your loved ones are on welfare please don't say welfare. Use your common sense.

June 17, 2011 at 2:38 p.m.
mymy said...

30% of U.S. Companies Say They Will Drop Health Care Coverage Because of Obama Care Well, it looks like 30% of U.S. companies are planning to drop health care coverage for their employees because of the “amazing” Obamacare. Happy Socialism! Market Watch reported: Once provisions of the Affordable Care Act start to kick in during 2014, at least three of every 10 employers will probably stop offering health coverage, a survey released Monday shows. While only 7% of employees will be forced to switch to subsidized-exchange programs, at least 30% of companies say they will “definitely or probably” stop offering employer-sponsored coverage, according to the study published in McKinsey Quarterly. The survey of 1,300 employers says those who are keenly aware of the health-reform measure probably are more likely to consider an alternative to employer-sponsored plans, with 50% to 60% in this group expected to make a change. It also found that for some, it makes more sense to switch. “At least 30% of employers would gain economically from dropping coverage, even if they completely compensated employees for the change through other benefit offerings or higher salaries,” the study says. It goes on to add: “Contrary to what employers assume, more than 85% of employees would remain at their jobs even if their employers stopped offering [employer-sponsored insurance], although about 60% would expect increased compensation.” So much for Obama’s “you can keep your plan if you like it” promise.

June 17, 2011 at 2:45 p.m.
mystyre said...

am I the only one who sees the casualties consist of a college student, a 'minority', and an elderly in this persuit to DESTROY voter fraud?

June 17, 2011 at 3:12 p.m.
limric said...

BobMKE,

You asked for the most important ONE. I gave you your answer. That's all you get. No desert for you.

So, Mr Smarty Pants - since you threw your little dig in, what would YOU say is the next important reason? And since you and your loved ones are on welfare using that will disqualify you.

Tricky tricky tricky ---BOB :-)

June 17, 2011 at 3:13 p.m.
limric said...

HOORAY, Give mystyre a prize. I was waiting for someone to notice that. Three groups adversely affected by GOP policies and actions. Nobody (except you mystre) noticed there wasn't a suite with laying on the ground. Well done!

Your prize should be a Casino Players Card or a give away at a Casino, but BobMKE (see his post June 17, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. above) would make you show ID. ;-]

June 17, 2011 at 3:25 p.m.
BobMKE said...

limric,

My first choice to show an ID card would be to vote and my second would be showing a law enforcement officer my ID (Since I am one)

Again, your second one would be _????

I guess that you don't go to casinos. In any casino you do have to show an ID to obtain a player's card which will make to eligible for perks. Here in Milwaukee, near downtown, we have the very large Potawatomi Casino & Bingo (3,100 slot machines) which is frequented by large amounts of the elderly and minorities. The vast majority of them have player cards. So on elections days they can vote before or after they go to the casino using the same ID they used to obtain their player's cards.

June 17, 2011 at 3:45 p.m.
limric said...

Oh alright coppah (that's my James Cagney impression). How about, "At a Bank, Credit Union, and Savings & Loan etc."

There, you got two out of me. Ah ain't following you down the road till you get the answer YOU want.

Annnndddd, your second one would be _????

June 17, 2011 at 3:56 p.m.
mystyre said...

thanks, limric. I enjoy your posts, btw. this discussion shows one of the foundamental setbacks to our political system. 15 hours into this disussion and nobody looks at the fact that actual AMERICANS are loosing their rights in a disgusie to fight "fraud". instead, we're to busy debating over which party commits the most fraud and what not. when the truth is fraud is a crime and like any other crime, it just naturally happens, anywhere.
if you ask me, the casualties on the floor represent the future(college student), diversity of relative thought (minority), and lessons from the past (elderly). the guy with the bat is corrupted government, in either party, which will serve to destroy us, all in one way or another.

June 17, 2011 at 4:18 p.m.
tderng said...

mystyre...Its been a while since I went to college,but don't students get an I.D. from their school?Do they have a photo on them?

Since I have had an I.D. since I was 15 years old I don't know what the current laws are regarding having some form of I.D.When I was growing up I do remember hearing about vagrancy laws where you had to produce an I.D. to a police officer if asked and were jailed if you couldn't.Don't know if that stills holds true or not.As for seniors,if they can get out to vote then they can get out to get an I.D.If they keep their drivers license current they don't even have to get out. :)

June 17, 2011 at 4:27 p.m.
fairmon said...

seamonkey,,

Sounds like you are saying those that voted for Obama to prove they weren't racist now want a chance to prove they aren't ignorant? It will be hard to over come the granola vote that likes that warm feeling when he tells them how great things will be and how wonderful they are. They could get similar results by urinating in their pants. I repeat I may fore-go voting if the current potential candidates are the only option. I can blame him for my first vote, believing his promises, he won't get a second shot at me.

June 17, 2011 at 4:30 p.m.
fairmon said...

It was hilarious and very telling when N.Y.'s Senator Schumer, a member of the judiciary committee, pointed out to an interviewer we had three branches of government; The executive, the house and the senate. 2000 every day citizens scored an average of 49 on a basic civics test, 200 politicians scored an average of 5 points worse. Voter fraud may include those legally voting. Is it voter fraud when a candidate doesn't know the basic structure of government much less the constitution. The above results could cause one to wonder if something more than an ID might be appropriate.

June 17, 2011 at 4:50 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Mystyre said: "15 hours into this disussion and nobody looks at the fact that actual AMERICANS are loosing their rights in a disgusie to fight "fraud"."

Believe you're right about this. I also believe the group that the Republicans are targeting are primarily seniors who will most likely vote against the Republican efforts to get rid of Security Security and Medicare. As the Brennan Center for Justice points out, the fact that it will be costly, unconstitutional, and just plain bad policy doesn't seem to matter:

"Currently, every state in America requires voters to prove their identities before receiving a ballot; different states require different levels of proof. Legislators in states across the country are now promoting bills that would require voters to meet more stringent documentation requirements before voting—including presenting photo identification at the polls on Election Day in order to cast a ballot. While the details of the proposals vary, these bills all would deny the right to vote to some or all citizens who are unable to produce a photo ID.

Studies show that as many as 11 percent of United States citizens—mostly older, low-income, and minority citizens—do not have government- issued photo IDs. Under the federal and state Constitutions, states must ensure that there is an accessible and reasonable way for all citizens to vote, including the estimated 33 million citizens who do not have photo IDs.

Based on a comprehensive review of every court case in which a photo ID law has been challenged, this paper examines some of the costs states must incur if they decide to implement photo ID requirements for voters. Previous Brennan Center publications have laid out the reasons why such requirements are bad policy and may be unconstitutional, regardless of the measures discussed below.2

While the results of lawsuits challenging photo ID laws have been mixed, the case law to date has established several basic principles that must be satisfied under the Constitution:

First, photo IDs sufficient for voting must be available free of charge for all those who do not have them. States cannot limit free IDs to those who swear they are indigent.

Second, photo IDs must be readily accessible to all voters, without undue burden. At a minimum, most states will likely have to expand the number of ID-issuing offices and extend their operating hours to meet this requirement.

Third, states must undertake substantial voter outreach and public education efforts to ensure that voters are apprised of the law’s requirements and the procedures for obtaining the IDs they will need to vote."

http://brennan.3cdn.net/2f0860fb73fd559359_zzm6bhnld.pdf

June 17, 2011 at 4:55 p.m.
tderng said...

mountainlaurel said...Republican efforts to get rid of Security Security and Medicare.

this statement has been rated "pants on fire",lie by Politifact.com.Why do liberals continue to lie about this?!? The scare granny tactics are disgusting.

June 17, 2011 at 5:06 p.m.
Clara said...

I managed to read through the comments yesterday and today on this cartoon, and again, I see a huge amount of partisinship and figures being thrown about.

I'm glad I'm a POO.

I don't... all thetime... believe any politicians, no matter what party he represents,Independents, Tea Party, etc., avowed Religious Leaders, Medical people,(including pharmaceutical companies, social workers, law enforcement, candidates for office, judges,and people in general.

I excuse little white lies most of the time!

That might make me seem paranoid, but I've lived a long time, and absorbed a lot.

The latest was a a spam I received about Obama taking out the American flags and vote for Obama.

I managed to find it on Snopes, and sure enough, it had been compiled by someone who wanted to get rid of Obama.

Look it up yourselves at SNOPES..politics!

June 17, 2011 at 6:07 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

RIDGE IS WRONG AGAIN

Cabin boy offered this sugar plum: "blackwater still believes in Keynesian economics? How hard for how long do you have to beat some people over the head with reality before they see the light of day? Forever?"

I went back and looked at my post again. Nope. Not one word about lowering interest rates and investing public money into infrastructure projects.

As far beating people over the head, how hard and for how long before you see the economic futility of tax cuts for millionaires and cutting Planned Parenthood to get us out of the mess you boys got us in?

At least one tea bagger has taken a bite of a reality sandwich. Senator Tom Coburn has dared to defy the head of the republican party, Grover Norquist. Better watch out. One defector can trigger a mass exodus, like rats escaping a sinking ship. Do you think republicans will abandon the doomed theory of coddling the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us.

Why is it only working class people have to pay their fair share and shoulder their burden and accept that we're all in this together? Why aren't you rich guys willing to admit that freedom isn't free?

By the way, Cabin Boy, instead of attacking me for something I didn't say, why don't you defend trickle down economics and enlighten us with its sterling history of skyrocketing employment and shrinking debt and prosperity sweeping across the Nation.

I dare you.

June 17, 2011 at 6:08 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

blackwater48 said... "instead of attacking me for something I didn't say, why don't you defend trickle down economics and enlighten us with its sterling history of skyrocketing employment and shrinking debt and prosperity sweeping across the Nation"

I asked a couple of questions, hoping to goad you into some kind of answer but it looks like you are still dancing and attacking but not really sharing what you think would be the right thing to do. Maybe if I share some of my opinions we can also see some of yours…

I do not support temporary tax cuts or rebates of any kind as worthwhile economic policy. Businesses and individuals are usually not fooled into making long term commitments based on temporary cuts. The recent temporary extension of the temporary tax cut did nothing to ease concerns about future tax policy, it only raised uncertainty. If you want to stimulate the economy by making America a more business friendly environment, tax incentives need to be permanent.

I do support a complete elimination of corporate income taxes. Corporate Income Taxes are a double tax that levies tax on income at the corporate level and then again when the profit is disbursed as dividends on the personal income taxes of citizens. This makes stock ownership less attractive by stealing from the dividends before they can even be disbursed, where it is proper to levy the tax as long as we have an income based tax system. Also, Corporate taxes increase the cost of doing business and are rolled up into the cost of goods produced. Citizens end up paying higher prices for goods and services as a result, which is a regressive indirect tax. The way corporate taxes are levied in this country corporations are compelled to move operations overseas and keep money made overseas out of this country. Our tax structure also gives an advantage to foreign companies selling products in the United States.

Decreasing the personal tax burden may or may not be simulative. It depends were we are on the Laugher curve (did I spell that right?) and I have never seen a compelling argument convincing me if taxation is too low or too high. I have a sneaky suspicion that they should be marginally increased across the board and that the threshold of tax payment should be lowered. I suspect that completely backing off the Bush tax cuts is too much, maybe increase them ¼ to ½ the way back to the Clinton rates and make the rate change PERMANENT. It would be good to dump about 95% of the tax code while you are at it.

Even better, dump the entire income tax system and go to the FairTax.

June 17, 2011 at 6:48 p.m.
fairmon said...

Is voting a privelege or a right? Most rights bring with them some level of responsibility. Is it asking too much to ask me to assure I have a right to exercise a privelege? I agree the states should provide the mechanism and process that maximizes access at a reasonable cost. Why should other voters pay for anyone to participate? That is different than the oligation to assure food, clothing, shelter and health care for the elderly, children and disabled which has been and remains deficient. Both parties have hollered fraud and demanded something be done. However, when something that could reduce and avoid the suspicion of fraud including new voting machines, photo ID and other proposals some on both sides object. It is evident if it is a democrats initiative republicans don't like it, a republican initiative and democrats don't like it. Some states proposing changes to address the issue have democratically controlled legislatures and others have a majority of republicans. Voters tend to mimic or parrot their leaders regardless of the issue. I am wondering how many accepted Schulman's contention that the three branches of government were the executive, the house and the senate.

June 17, 2011 at 7:16 p.m.
rick1 said...

BW48, you said my 12:23 post compared the last two years. That is because you were talking about Obama and his handling of the economy. You did not address the facts I presented and used democratic talking points about Bush 1 and 2.

I regards to my post of WMD's you did not address this either, and changed the subject matter from WMD's to casulties. Typical of a liberal change to the subject when they can not debate on the facts.

No I did not give a heartfelt apology when I made this post.

June 17, 2011 at 7:30 p.m.
tderng said...

Clara...would it not have been easier to list the people that you do trust? :)What is it about medical people that you don't trust?

June 17, 2011 at 7:38 p.m.
fairmon said...

BRP,

The fair tax proposal without congress screwing it up would be the most fair tax system in the world and different than any in the world. Educating people and over coming the objection of the wealthy and politicians is about impossible. People simply don't realize or accept that the cost of goods and services are over 25% higher due to taxes and other unnecessary legislatively imposed cost. At current prices government adds 50 cents per gallon at the pump to gas plus other upstream taxes and cost. Should the Fair Tax proposal gain traction the "throwing granny over the cliff" scare tactic is mild compared to the outcry from politicians and the wealthy. Unfortunately members of the congress and senate have no idea they are the ones exporting good jobs. Joe Biden's response when asked about corporate taxes and companies moving off shore was "well, most of them still here seem to be doing OK".

June 17, 2011 at 7:39 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

harp3339 said... "Educating people (about the FairTax) and over coming the objection of the wealthy and politicians is about impossible"

This is the only valid complaint about the FairTax that I have heard. It would certainly be a big job to undo the disinformation imposed by both parties over the years. It is still the right thing to do and worth the effort. If our representation in Congress could put down their self-interest and work together to pass the FairTax it could be done pretty easily. Fat chance, hey?

June 17, 2011 at 7:58 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

harp3339 said... "Is voting a privelege or a right?"

I think voting is a privilege that you should have to earn. The idea of "universal suffrage" is a huge mistake.

June 17, 2011 at 8:02 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN

Rick whined, "BW48, you said my 12:23 post compared the last two years. That is because you were talking about Obama and his handling of the economy. You did not address the facts I presented and used democratic talking points about Bush 1 and 2."

You compared economic numbers from Inauguration day to the present, as if American life in 2001 was rosy and birds were chirping. Gas prices, home values, national debt, blah blah blah.

Forget the talking points, ricky. Go back and do the research. Make the same comparisons you ran against Obama from Inauguration day to the present, and you might as well start with Reagan because that was the start of our downward spiral. Do every administration from Reagan to the present using your own criteria.

Ouch! I said something bad about the gipper. Quick contact OMB or CBO or anyone else you want and get the real numbers.

As for WMD and chemical weapons, you do realize that the Kurds were gassed in 1988. I would tell you how Pappy Bush left those poor dumb bastards high and dry to be gassed by the chemical weapons we sold to Saddam for use against IRAQ, but you'd just accuse me of political pandering.

Grow a pair. Stop listening to Rush and FOX. The information is out there.

Google is your friend.

June 17, 2011 at 8:29 p.m.
fairmon said...

I think you can find this to be pretty accurate. Bush created about a 7 trillion deficit which Obama has doubled. The two of them created a total deficit equal to all prior debt levels. The national debt is on course to double again in a short period of time. The debts of Americans is in the neighborhood of 61 trillion or more than $350,000 per citizen. How is the pending calamity to be avoided? We really need our leaders on top of this voter fraud issue since they may be able to ignore the economy for a while longer.

June 17, 2011 at 8:54 p.m.

“3 District 29 poll workers indicted: Accused of faking votes to help elect Ophelia Ford” by Marc Perrusquia (Memphis Commercial Appeal, June 22, 2006) http://web.archive.org/web/20060723210829/http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/local/article/0,2845,MCA_25340_4792646,00.html

“Three Shelby County election workers faked votes in an effort to throw last fall's District 29 state Senate race to Ophelia Ford, prosecutors alleged Wednesday.

“Unsealing an indictment that charges the trio with illegal voting, making false entries and other crimes, Shelby County Dist. Atty. Gen. Bill Gibbons said the workers at now-dissolved Precinct 27-1 forged at least three votes, including two in the names of dead voters …

"There was an effort on the part of certain individuals in Precinct 27-1 to cast some illegal votes for Miss Ford, but I stress that there was nothing to indicate that she knew anything about that,'' Gibbons told reporters …

“The trio faces a combined 37 counts -- all but two of them felonies -- alleging they forged a variety of election documents to not only fake votes but to make it appear that two poll workers who didn't work were present for the Sept 15 election …

“The indictment alleges the poll workers forged votes in the names of Light and Kirkwood and also in the name of a third voter -- still alive -- who records show had moved out of the district.

“The election results came under intense scrutiny after Ford defeated Republican challenger Terry Roland by 13 votes in an election in which 8,748 ballots were cast …

“Reviewing that list, the newspaper found that voter Light, 70, a folk artist with a registered address at 607 Looney, hadn't lived there in years. Now a vacant lot, Light's home had been foreclosed in 2000 and razed.

“Then came a greater discovery -- Light had died of colon cancer on Aug. 6, six weeks before the election. The newspaper then discovered a ballot was cast in the name of a second dead voter, Archie L. Kirkwood, 72, who died Aug. 30 of hypertensive cardiovascular disease.

“Despite their deaths, the signatures of both voters were written into the poll book on Sept. 15 at the Precinct 27-1 polling place on Danny Thomas in North Memphis …

“In the case of Light, McClatcher filled out the ballot application while Mayo signed Light's name into the poll book and cast a ballot in the voting machine, the indictment alleges. Mayo and Otteridge faked the vote for Kirkwood, the indictment says.

“The indictment charges Mayo and Otteridge also allowed voter Markesha Hinton to vote in the name of LaToya Wilson, Otteridge's daughter.

“Prosecutors also filed felony charges against three felons who cast ballots in the Sept. 15 election …”

June 17, 2011 at 9:10 p.m.

How quickly we forget ...

“Judge: Let's air details of fraud. Public has right, Colton says in Ophelia Ford election case” by Marc Perrusquia (Memphis Commercial Appeal, May 22, 2007) http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/may/22/judge-lets-air-details-of-fraud/

“A judge said Monday he thinks the public is owed a more detailed explanation about an alleged plot by three poll workers to throw a 2005 election to Ophelia Ford, now a state senator.

“Shelby County Criminal Court Judge John P. Colton took guilty pleas earlier this month from the three election workers who avoided jail time in a deal with prosecutors.

“The workers admitted to voting fraud charges against them, yet never said what motivated them to fake at least three votes, two of them cast in the names of dead people …

“In a plea deal entered May 10, alleged ringleader Verline Mayo admitted to 10 felonies, including voter fraud, making false entries on election documents and official misconduct. Mayo, 70, received the stiffest sentence: two years' probation, $1,000 in fines and 200 hours of community service.

“Codefendants Gertrude Otteridge, 65, and Mary McClatcher, 53, pleaded guilty to one felony and one misdemeanor each and were sentenced to one year probation plus fines and community service …

“The irregularities occurred in North Memphis' heavily Democratic Precinct 27-1, where Mayo had served as an Election Day poll boss for decades. The Shelby County Election Commission has since abolished the precinct, merging it with an adjacent one …”

June 17, 2011 at 9:12 p.m.
Clara said...

tderng said... Clara...would it not have been easier to list the people that you do trust? :)What is it about medical people that you don't trust?

Sorry tderng! I made a big error. In my first sentence, I said, All the time. It should have read "Lots of the time".

It's off the subject but I find the Pharmacy Co's apt to be hedgy about what their product might do to you until you buy it and read the very small print.

I've been receiving very good care at the VA during my months-long visits.

As far as the ERs are concerned in local hospitals, I find they are apt to keep you waiting while they build up your time, and keep you in the ER when you visit, and add on extra charges.

As far as some doctors go, I'm sure you've heard about uneccesary tests and procedures which get charged to your accounts...etc. My daughter had a tooth extracted, which was the wrong one.

That same daughter was pregnant and was shown by the obstatrician a picture that said she was carrying twins.

The ultra-sound showed the twins OK but it belonged to another person. Other persons complained, too. It was found out the the Dr. was, also, by artificial insemination, passing his semen aroung I'm also sure, although you might be very young, or even a doctor, I'm not going to answer anymore off topics. C:-] But I will deny telling who I do trust. I've raised 4 children, dealt with an older sister, schoolteachers, and others such as neighbors, etc. 'nuff said! POO I'm certainly sorry for answering this last question.

June 17, 2011 at 10:18 p.m.
tderng said...

clara...hope the Dr. was forced out of practice! Young I am not,nor a doctor,but I did work in the field and witnessed first hand the unnecessary tests.Mostly done to keep from getting sued or was mandated by insurance companies.Occasionally due to incompetence. We did have one E.R. Doc who quit because the hospital said he wasn't ordering enough tests.He said he ordered what he felt was needed and would not order anything that wasn't.He went into private practice and is doing well. Well I should get back to topic also.

June 17, 2011 at 10:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

BRP,

Corker's response was he couldn't see a way to transition to the Fair Tax system. That tells me he thinks I am ignorant and will buy that answer. Wamp said he was for it and would vote for it if it came to the floor. That is a very safe response. Of course he wasn't encouraging anyone to bring it to a vote. News people don't understand it so they are critical. It is frustrating that none of them are willing to read and fully understand it. A vast majority of people can't see that it is not a tax increase and that it would be better for eveyone except the mega rich and it would be a signifcant help to those with below average incomes.

June 17, 2011 at 11:38 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

blackwater48 said... "I dare you"

...and then he ran into the shadows?

June 18, 2011 at 1:17 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

harp3339 said... "A vast majority of people can't see that it is not a tax increase and that it would be better for eveyone except the mega rich and it would be a signifcant help to those with below average incomes"

I don't disagree, but I know that the plan makes sense and the American public could be made to see that it makes sense if a leader could emerge that would stop the he-said, she-said bs going on in Washington and get voters to understand how it could help bring America back on an exceptional path.

I agree with your outlook most of the time harp, but we have to believe there is a way and find a path to make it happen.

June 18, 2011 at 1:26 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world said... "Mayo, 70, received the stiffest sentence: two years' probation, $1,000 in fines and 200 hours of community service"

Considering the damage that this type of activity could do to our country, this sentence is pathetic. Mayo should have been put in jail and been made an example of.

June 18, 2011 at 1:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

I agree. A candidate willing to educate people and keep at it may be able to win the election. It would cost a fortune to do so but it could work. Huckabee says he is for it but he is isn't running. He has a TV show and could give the Fair Tax plan a good boost but it is never mentioned.

I have donated, wrote my congressman and senator, talked to friends and strangers about it and will keep doing that and hoping a champion comes on the scene. A country needs to reinvent itself about every 200 years and this would be a good way to do that.

June 18, 2011 at 6:59 a.m.
acerigger said...

Two aides to former Maryland Governor Robert Ehrlich (R) have been indicted for ordering what officials claim were deceptive robocalls intended to suppress Democratic turnout during Ehrlich's second run for the office last November.

Voters in Maryland started getting mysterious phone calls on election day last year, that told them to "relax" and not bother going to the polls because President Barack Obama and Gov. Martin O'Malley "have been successful."

"Everything is fine. The only thing left is to watch on TV tonight," the robocalls said.

The Baltimore Sun reports:

Julius Henson and Paul Schurick each face three counts of conspiracy to violate Maryland election laws, one count of attempting to influence a voter's decision and one count of failing to provide an authority line (on campaign material). Schurick also is charged with one count of obstruction of justice.

Henson, who has a long history of dirty political tricks, has admitted he was involved in the calls, but his lawyer has argued in a civil case that the calls were protected free speech.

Schurick, Ehrlich's communications director when he was governor and a top campaign aide during his return campaign, allegedly created "The Schurick Doctrine" which was "designed to promote confusion, emotionalism, and frustration among African-American Democrats."

"The first and foremost desired outcome [of the Schurick Doctrine strategy] is voter suppression," the document said, the Sun reported

June 18, 2011 at 5:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

acerigger,

The qualification to vote of anyone dumb enough to believe and be confused or change plans in response to such a call is questionable. I understand there are no qualification criteria other than citizenship and some candidates depend on that gullible element of society to get elected. That being the case the action is appropriate.

June 18, 2011 at 9:17 p.m.
acerigger said...

the point of my post is that,Democrats do not "own" voter fraud. as for the "gullible" element,without them there would be far fewer Republicans elected to office.

June 19, 2011 at 10:53 a.m.
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