published Sunday, March 20th, 2011

Don't Tread on Me

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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dude_abides said...

Finally! Francis personified.

March 20, 2011 at 12:09 a.m.

Drawn like a true Tory. You've just made the Tea Party into liberals. Well done.

March 20, 2011 at 12:52 a.m.
fairmon said...

WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Without parroting either parties rhetoric I would like to postings of what to do about the financial dilemma this country finds itself in.

Why should the government financially support or influence any media?The initial weak justification for subsidizing PBR no longer exist. Is government media funding consistent with an untethered freedom of the press? No one wants to give up their favorite federal, state or local program. It is evident that revenue must increase and spending decrease or we will be a bankrupt nation. The national debt has doubled in just a few short years. At the current rate of increase it will double again in no less than each 8 years:

o 2012=14 trillion+

o 2020=28 trillion

o 2028=42 trillion

o 2036=70 trillion

o 2044=112 trillion

Do the math. The arithmetic doesn't lie but politicians of both parties do or lack the intelligence and gonads to face reality. Are voters so naive they think the problem will solve itself or by magic go away?

Two wars and now possibly three that we cannot afford. Welfare programs that we cannot afford that go beyond food clothing and shelter for the indigent unable to provide for their self. The war against drugs is being lost as the problem permeates governments and society at all levels, it is an epidemic.

Please tell me why the math and my conclusions are wrong instead of how important it is that we engage in three wars. Or, who is at fault. Or, why certain programs are so important they must continue. Tell me instead why the arithmetic is incorrect and when we will begin reducing debt. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? specifics that would address and correct the problem.

March 20, 2011 at 5:31 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

no, dude....just a cheap piece of liberal probaganda again....that's all...just another cartoon with no insight...just a democrat party tool.......a liberal tool..just like you, dude.

social security...phase it out....allow those who don't want to pay into it to put their money where they want going t hose who paid into it already...but phase it out.

obamacare....out the's a pit

pbs, npr......a waste...

it's appropriate that many programs are depicted as snakes...because that's what they are..

March 20, 2011 at 6:35 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - the simple answer to your question is personal sacrifice. I think the founding fathers told us that. I know that Eisenhower, Kennedy and Carter told us that. Once in awhile, Bush I, Clinton and Obama have at least hinted about sacrifice. But, Reagan and Bush II consistently told us that we could consume and borrow our way into prosperity. Too many of us listened and now we are realizing the return on our investment in selfishness.

March 20, 2011 at 7:31 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

Dang...! Cannot you draw something with a message (every once in awhile) that unites instead of divides? Naw...that's not your way. Guess I was just hoping...lets just keep fighting amongst easier for us to fall apart this way....

March 20, 2011 at 8:04 a.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

There should be a "Tea Party" snake also. It would have multiple heads and no spine. Those are American snakes being stomped.

March 20, 2011 at 8:18 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

bullcrap, mtjohn...what a don't mean personal mean coughing up more to a bloated and greedy government that's controlled by greedy, self serving politicians, lobbyists and lifelong, fatass burocrats......personal sacrifice does not mean the government is entitled to the majority of what you make......bullcrap..

and, liberal slug........bennett's cartoon, the angry stomping man.. actually a good depiction of those greedy, fatass, entitlist democrats, union whores, teachers and state workers who have been throwing a tantrum over the last month because an adult finally told them to grow up...and deal with reality...

bennett's tea party guy is the distorted view you libs have of the tea party ..the image you want to portray...there's no evidence at all that the tea party is like that at all...but plenty..oh, plenty that unions, teachers, state workers, liberals and democrats behave like that.......

scott walker and alan west...that's a good ticket for 2012...

continue to eliminate the politicians who have created all of this and republican.. if the new crop in congress just elected doesnt' move toward cleaning up the them out.

get rid of barack obama......bush was a spendaholic in his second term....obama since then is out of control.....get rid of him......we in the real world have to watch what we spend, balance our our bills on time.....and never spend more than we take in....

mt john...obama is the ultimate selfish jackass....he caters to those who are only interested in their own security and lifetime guarantees.....however they get it doesn't matter...even if this country can't afford it...liberals, who want what obama wants..and the democrats want..are the selfish ones, not those who want to be independent and not be a burden

March 20, 2011 at 8:30 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

bennett is not an editorial cartoonist....he's just a propagandist...all editorial cartoonists have some elements of propaganda in their work because they're entitled to their political philosophy, but bennett is just pure party good, republican party bad, conservative evil, liberal pure, big government the answer, independence is selfishness...he's a flat out socialist.

both republicans and democrats, (to a greater degree the evidence shows), ..both parties...are responsible for this bloated and greedy government...which is exactly what the founding fathers didn't want.....and out of control monster that stomps on citizens when it feels like it..

March 20, 2011 at 8:42 a.m.
woody said...

First, "...if you refuse to learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it...." That, of course, is in regards to today's 'toon'. Actually, if the Tea Party were smart enough to admit that there are some out there equally concerned about our current financial condition, they might also being able to pick up some really pointers on how to fix things. Who knows, maybe St. Patrick had the right idea as to how to deal with snakes...kill 'em with kindness.

And, Harp, if it were me, I'd be sitting down across the table from my idealogical counterpart and asking, "Okay, now what can we do that is in the best interest of those who sent us here? Not those with all the money to spread around, but those who are having to scrimp and save and those who might have to choose which bills to pay first. But first we have to stop thinking about what each of us believes is right and start doing that which is right." I hope that helps Harp..Woody

March 20, 2011 at 8:49 a.m.
fairmon said...

MTJohn responded with; Harp - the simple answer to your question is personal sacrifice. I think the founding fathers told us that. I know that Eisenhower, Kennedy and Carter told us that.

OK, not very specific regarding just what you would do. What, how and how much should we each sacrifice? Do you agree with the exponential increase in debt? If no where is the math wrong? If yes, is it sustainable and what happens if it isn't? As you know local, state and federal governments have the same problem. Our local government has already increased taxes and fees by 19%.

What about LBJ and his guns and butter, did he tell us that?

March 20, 2011 at 9:02 a.m.
dougmusn said...

For harp3336: "The national debt has doubled in just a few short years." True enough, but incomplete. Our debt recently jumped because the remainder of the economy cratered, leaving the government as the only entity remaining to keep any substantial economic activity going. Just like an investment ("current rates of return are no guarantee of future performance") the deficit will drop when revenues increase. Workers pay taxes. More workers mean more taxes.

My solutions: 1. Increase investment in INFRASTRUCTURE. If you build a road, I can use it to spend less time traveling or to get my goods to market. If I build a submarine, I doubt I would ever use it. Building roads, water lines, gas lines, sewers, bridges creates jobs and restores the physical health of our country. 2. Cap DEFENSE SPENDING. If we need more money to fight in Southwest Asis, the DoD should be required to cut something to pay for it, just as we adjust our personal finances. Star Wars (missile defense shield), the EFV (Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle) and the F-35 Lightning program come to mind. The military-industrial complex has been adept at sprinkling these projects throughout multiple Congressional districts and declaring them jobs bills. The main beneficiaries of cost overruns are not the federal treasury or the commonweal. 3. RAISE TAXES back to the level of the recent past (max 39% rate on high earners). This is not soaking the rich. The fantasy of tax cuts creating jobs is unsustainable. 4. Add an immediate $1/gallon TAX ON GASOLINE. We seem to need an incentive to get off of the oil treadmill. Give all of us one. 5. OFFSET the harm from a gas tax with RAISING THE FLOOR AND CEILING FOR PAYROLL TAXES. Do not tax the first $10K of earned income for payroll taxes and raise the OASDI ceiling by $25K. This will lessen the pain of #4. 6. Continue COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH for health services. If the new blood pressure drug costs $5/day and works no better than the old blood pressure drug for $0.01/day, publish the information and let the market decide. 7. REMOVE A DRUG FROM THE FEDERAL FORMULARY ADVERTISED DIRECTLY TO PATIENTS. I believe in free speech, including commercial speech, but direct-to-patient advertising poisons the interaction between doctor and patient. The patient is not happy until he gets the "blue pill" or whatever is the flavor of the month. Losing Medicare, Medicaid, DoD and VA revenues would hurt enough to clean up this cost-inflating and destructive practice.

That would be good start...

March 20, 2011 at 9:03 a.m.
delmar said...
March 20, 2011 at 9:11 a.m.
fairmon said...


Thanks. I agree with your approach. I guess what I am wondering is if you were King with the ability to put in place that which is right what would that be? You know take two aspirin and call me tomorrow won't work in a terminal case such as ours. Have governments grown and spread so much they are unmanageable and untreatable?

Politicians that fight every day remind me of the saying "the man who fight with wife all day will get no piece at night". Some of them remind one of the saying "man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion".

March 20, 2011 at 9:39 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Indeed, delmar. I hope the population in India knows that she does not speak for the government of the US or for most of us. Reminds me of when I traveled in the UK in 2001 (before 9/11), and our brit relatives were asking how WE could have elected GWB. We made it clear that WE did not elect him.

March 20, 2011 at 9:54 a.m.
fairmon said...

dougmusn said; harp3339 the deficit will drop when revenues increase. Workers pay taxes. More workers mean more taxes.

I agree. The trick is increased demand for American made products resulting in hiring of American workers. Government stimulus and grants don't sustain the improvement long term. Workers at foreign owned businesses do pay taxes although profits flow to the foreign country. Infrastructure work is essential, increases employment but also increases taxes. Other than interstate highways and water ways infrastructure should be state and local initiatives. Stimulus that result in the purchase of imports has minimal positive impact beyond the temporary boost for transports and sales people at the retailer or wholesaler of the imported products.

The industrial military complex, as Eisenhower warned us, is out of control. Members of congress are not willing to give anything up in their district. Bahner objected when it was in his district and would have caused people in his district to lose jobs.

The sell out to pharmaceuticals in the recent health care legislation is ludicrous. Another piece of well intended legislation that is so full of pork and accommodation of special interest it will have more unintended consequences than most of us can imagine.

Ending two wars, now possibly three, and reducing real unemployment and under employment to 5% or less with some spending reductions and social security adjustments the terminal bleeding could be stopped.

March 20, 2011 at 10:22 a.m.
fairmon said...


Is the following enough sacrifice? I am willing to sacrifice all tax deductions, reductions, incentives, grants and subsidies and any other manipulation by governments. I am willing to sacrifice and abolish those same things for businesses and the published 35% corporate tax rate in exchange for a standard unadjusted rate of 14% on all after business cost revenue.

I am willing to sacrifice the federal department of education, I am willing to sacrifice all the czars appointed in the last 11 years and significantly reduce the military industrial complex, the DOE and a few others.

I am willing to sacrifice and pay 1% more in taxes for each 5%reduction government spending. Are you willing to make these sacrifices with me?

March 20, 2011 at 10:39 a.m.
dude_abides said...

SheepMonkey, George Bush I (10 times the man his son is) once coined the term "compassionate conservatism". Why does conservatism need a qualifier? Why is compassion not intrinsic in conservatism? The Rabid Right eviscerated Bush as a wimp (pilot, ex-CIA not good enough for them).

interesting post. The world really is flat as per Friedman, isn't it?

delmar, that is scary. Who was it the right jumped all over for "criticizing the President while on foreign soil? I trust India is too sophisticated to take this prostitute seriously, but we did elect Bush to a second term. So...

March 20, 2011 at 10:46 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Greenkepi - how can Clay draw a cartoon that unites when the cartoon responds to behavior that already is divisive?

March 20, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - I am willing to pay higher taxes and accept a reduction in social security benefits. I am not willing to sacrifice the safety net for those less fortunate than myself.

March 20, 2011 at 10:50 a.m.
MTJohn said...

SeaMonkey - please explain why conservatives are unable to attack issues in disagreement without using senseless ad hominems to also attack those with whom they disagree.

March 20, 2011 at 10:53 a.m.
SeaMonkey said...

george bush a country republican...his son turned out to be pretty much the same

george w bush was not a least not fiscally...he spent like a drunk democrat..his second term was a spendathon.....

"behavior that is already devisive"...what you really mean, mtjohn a different opinion than want to see devisive behavior...? check out wisconisin over the last month.

bennett is a best a democrat party cheerleader...nothing more..

March 20, 2011 at 10:57 a.m.
fairmon said...


We agree that we should provide for those unable to provide for their self. I stop at food, clothing, good clean safe housing and utilities. I don't support free cell phones and cell phone time, weatherization and many other programs beyond reasonable welfare. At some point taxes and other cost increases also increases the number on welfare roles.

March 20, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - consistent with the philosophy of our founders, I'd stop at equal opportunity. We aren't even close.

March 20, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.
blackwater48 said...


Dougmusn wrote an awesome post at 10:22 that seriously addressed our bloated budget and how to get it under control. Well written, well thought out, well done.

I would start with our military budget. I've said it before, but we could cut a ton of brass from the pentagon and not lose one ounce of military effectiveness. Over $200 billion in Afghanistan this year alone and for what? Next I'd start closing down our bases located over seas.

While most tea baggers are sincere in their conservative views, they are, unfortunately, witless tools of the Koch Brothers anti-EPA campaign.

And they are either too lazy or too stupid to realize it.

March 20, 2011 at 11:31 a.m.
fairmon said...


I assume by equal opportunity you are referring to an opportunity for an education, training to increase my ability or value to others, to be the best I can be etc. If you mean redistribute by confiscating and spreading it around we are at extreme opposites.

I have read nothing to suggest the founders intended all would have the same and none would have something unless all had it. There is a fine line between a hand out and a hand up. Enable me to prepare for success then allow me to fail or succeed. Teach a man to fish etc., all have heard it I am sure. Makes a lot of sense.

March 20, 2011 at 11:58 a.m.
hambone said...

Francis can change his name, but he is unable to change his style!

March 20, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.
RufusTFirefly said...

Clay, your political savvy is as good as any political cartoonist in the country. We are fortunate to have you in the city.

When Bruce left, I thought he could not be replaced.

You filled the political cartoon void very well!

March 20, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
RufusTFirefly said...

"...obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors become so excessive that they interfere with daily life. And no matter what you do, you can’t seem to shake them.

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by uncontrollable, unwanted thoughts and repetitive, ritualized behaviors you feel compelled to perform.

... thoughts, images, or impulses that occur over and over again in your mind. You don’t want to have these ideas – in fact, you know that they don’t make any sense. But you can’t stop them. Unfortunately, these obsessive thoughts are usually disturbing and distracting.

There are many effective treatments for obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), ranging from therapy to self-help and medication. However, the treatment for OCD with the most research supporting its effectiveness is cognitive-behavioral therapy."

March 20, 2011 at 12:32 p.m.
blackwater48 said...


Rufus pointed out, "...The treatment for OCD with the most research supporting its effectiveness is cognitive-behavioral therapy."

See the movie but the book is better.

March 20, 2011 at 12:40 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

no style change needed,'s your thinking that's flawed......i'm just fine...

let me tell you the way it is....liberals and conservatives have a completely different concept of the american dream and what america stands for...

conservatives believe america is the land of freedom and opportunity...and no guarantees...liberals believe america should be the land of guarantees and that if takes limiting freedom...then so be it.

what you've seen in wisconsin over the last month is what happens when the liberals' view of america collides with reality....what you've seen is what happens when liberals don't get their way.... basically a tantrum..

most liberals and democrats..not all, but all leftists certainly..are not real americans....real americans crave opportunity and freedom...not guarantees.

our massive debt exist because of liberal thinking.. whether it's completely taken over the democrat party or it's watered down the republican party...

liberal thinking...entitlements, guarantees, huge obscend benefits.....also corruption...which goes hand in hand with ensuring that entitlements and guarantees always exist.

March 20, 2011 at 12:44 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

the basic vision of those who started this country, which was one of freedom and freedom from an overbearing government/tyranny.....does not fit with what you liberals believe or're not're something else.....i suggest you move to sweden, denmark or norway..or wherever where you can be t aken care of like babies until the day you die.

March 20, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Generalizations are not helpful. Just as you generalized about liberals and what they espouse, I can do the same in just as unhelpful a way. Disclaimer: I don't think all conservatives promote these, but here goes: Conservatives don't like government in your lives, except when it comes to your bedroom. In that case they want all couples (heterosexual, same race, married in a church) to use the missionary position and to make babies. Conservatives want unfettered capitalism. That means that businesses can do whatever they want, including setting the standards for pay, benefits, workplace safety, disposal of hazardous waste, and quality of goods. CEOs should be able to make whatever pay is traditional, even when their companies are on the ropes and they are laying off workers. Conservatives want all children taught male WASP perspective history in school, none of that multicultural, women-and-minority perspective. Women and minorities played no part whatever in the formation and early history of the US. Conservatives want to keep all of what they make. No taxes. If social services are needed, let the churches provide them. Conservatives don't want comprehensive sex education in schools. If the parents don't teach their kids, too bad. Conservatives want all abortions ended. Have the babies; give them up for adoption if you don't want them, and keep your legs together, ladies, if you don't want to get pregnant. Conservatives want all oil to come from the US. Drill baby drill. We don't need all those national parks and wildlife refuges anyway. Conservatives want all theories taught in science classrooms, and let the kids decide which to believe.

You see, these are stereotypes. If I want to dismiss anyone because they are conservative, I'd have to believe that they require all these to be called a conservative. I don't fit the stereotype of a liberal, and I don't like my opinions dismissed because I am a liberal.

March 20, 2011 at 1:02 p.m.
librul said...

Fully agree, lkeithlu - but I'd still like to see most of the politically cancerous conservarepublicrats lying in pools of their own blood. I'm sure that concept has not even occurred to the ape that lives in the sea. He's apparently happy to live in a country that imprisons and slow-tortures truth-tellers who've harmed no one while lying devils like W who caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands in wars based on lies live lives of luxury in gated neighborhoods.

March 20, 2011 at 1:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Let me just add that I have no problem with my opinions or statements dismissed using evidence. I have no problem being wrong. I am just as unhappy with my opinion being dismissed because I'm female, something I had to contend with from time to time when I was younger, especially living in the rural south.

March 20, 2011 at 1:34 p.m.
woody said...

Harp..your response to my post earlier today got me to thinking, and my answer may surprise you..we will see. I can't give you a definitive answer. Unlike some who come here to call into question the abilities of those we elect, and who will take every opportunity to tell the entire world what it is they should be doing on our behalf, I cannot and will not even attempt such a feat. I know not exactly what it will take to see the job through, but I can tell you without a doubt what it will take to get the ball rolling. Each side will have to look beyond what their respective parties believe in order to see what needs to be done. In other words they will have to remove their 'idealogical blinders' in order to see the problem as a other words "The Big Picture." Our problems, be they financial, political, idealogical, or what-have-you, are not one, or two dimensional but life-size and will take those who are willing to look beyond their own wants and desires to see the job through. And they better have some spare time because it won't happen overnight. I have the desire and the time (God willing) to do the job. I only wish I had the smarts. But that fact won't stop some on here..Woody

March 20, 2011 at 1:48 p.m.
canarysong said...


I was beginning to think that you are a closet liberal with these...

"The industrial military complex, as Eisenhower warned us, is out of control. Members of congress are not willing to give anything up in their district. Bahner objected when it was in his district and would have caused people in his district to lose jobs"

And suggesting..."Ending two wars, now possibly three"

"The sell out to pharmaceuticals in the recent health care legislation is ludicrous"

And then you lost me...

"I am willing to sacrifice the federal department of education"

Quality public education is arguably the single most important thing that can make equal opportunity possible. To abandon it would be an unimaginable travesty. Much is available on what the founding fathers had to say about the value of public education; here is just a sample...

Thomas Jefferson fought hard for public education during the early years of our nation's formation. He developed a comprehensive plan for education for the State of Virginia which encompassed elementary, secondary, and university levels.

"I think by far the most important bill in our whole code, is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised for the preservation of freedom and happiness." (as cited in Padover, 1952, p. 87)

Jefferson believed the elementary school was more important than the university in the plan because, as he said, it was "safer to have the whole people respectfully enlightened than a few in a high state of science and many in ignorance as in Europe" (as cited in Peterson, 1960, p. 241)

"Laws for the liberal education of the youth, especially of the lower class of the people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant."

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

"The good Education of Youth has been esteemed by wise Men in all Ages, as the surest Foundation of the Happiness both of private Families and of Common-wealths. Almost all Governments have therefore made it a principal Object of their Attention, to establish and endow with proper Revenues, such Seminaries of Learning, as might supply the succeeding Age with Men qualified to serve the Publick with Honour to themselves, and to their Country."

Benjamin Franklin, Proposals Relating to the Education of Youth in Pennsylvania, 1749

I assume that you are not suggesting the outright elimination of public education, but rather its transfer into the hands of state government instead. I would argue that such a move would make public education even more vulnerable to partisan politics, special interest group pressures, and vacillations in regional economic shifts. This would not benefit children or our country's interests

March 20, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.
canarysong said...

SeaMonkey/Francis, re ALL of your posts today;

To use your word, that's quite a "tantrum".

"our massive debt exist because of liberal thinking"

While both parties may have made some poor decisions, I would say that the TRILLIONS of dollars spent on unnecessary wars, occupations, nuclear armament and foreign military installations over the years has contributed tremendously to our current debt-load.

What are our priorities? What should they be?

Some people ask, "What would Jesus do?". What do you think? Would he feed the poor and care for the sick and the elderly? Or would he bomb the heck out of other countries in order to keep cheap gasoline flowing into SUVs in America's suburbs?

Jesus was not a libertarian, as AndrewLohr so often likes to claim, Jesus was a socialist.

March 20, 2011 at 2:44 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - I am talking about equal opportunity an education, training to increase my ability or value to others, to be the best I can be etc. I'm not just talking about equal opportunity to access to education etc., but equal opportunity to take advantage of the access and equal opportunity to use that access.

I find it curious how the less-than-compassionate-conservatives consistently complain about wealth redistribution. In fact, we have been living in the past tense on that issue for many generations. And, still today, the descendants of those who did the confiscating continue to benefit, while the descendants of those who were the victims continue to suffer.

March 20, 2011 at 4:24 p.m.
MTJohn said...

SeaMonkey - a clear read of our history looks a lot like freedom for the white gentry and tyranny for those less equal than the governing class.

March 20, 2011 at 4:26 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Actually, SeaMonkey, you're the one that's not an American. You're a neo-nazi. You're the type of punk ass that tells racist jokes and thinks that the black people you come face to face with believe you're as worldly and urbane as you act in front of them. How old were you when you figured out pro wrestling was fake, mid thirties? Christ would probably make an exception and stomp your ass if he came back.

March 20, 2011 at 5:38 p.m.
fairmon said...


I agree regarding access to learning opportunities and more. Those kids not having strong parental support should be supplemented in that regard. And, the opportunity to use and apply the knowledge skills and ability acquired should be no less than equal. The need for improved equality is not limited to any race, sex, age or sexual orientation.

Education is the only avenue of escape this country has from the weak and totally political leadership we have. I am sure you think the federal government is the answer while I think they may be the worst answer available. Their role should be passing the necessary legislation and regulations to assure equality with local and state compliance. Confiscating funds, taking a healthy chunk for themselves and administrative cost and selecting their favorites based on politics is the worst waste of resources imagineable.

I am not a conservative and donnate money and time freely assisting those less fortunate. I resent the hell out of those calling themselves liberal, progressive or fitting in one of the defined boxes insisting I support those that could but won't. I do and will continue supporting those that would but can't. I could give you some examples of could but don't but I will show some restraint. It isn't the taxes I resent it is the wasteful and politically motivated spending that sets me off.

The lack of support for the creation of decent jobs while showing favoritism to some and abusing others burns me up. There are certain businesses I will not support (ie. Walmart) but I do own stock since so many have no clue what they are doing to their own country when spending their money at Walmart and will continue to do so. I take the Walmart dividend and pay taxes on it and if people should wise up and the stock value drops I will sell it.

Conservatives object to abortion, I don't and actually think there should be more. Conservatives object to same sex marriage, I don't they don't proliferate and that is good population control. If sexual variety with my consenting female partner is a crime then I am a criminal of the worst kind, not a conservative. Conservatives want to drill, drill, drill and liberals don't, don't don't. I could care less, if gas goes to $10 a gallon and I have the money I will buy a gallon, if I don't I will stay home or walk. The higher price may even drive us to do something sane about energy conservation and generation. Although ethanol doesn't meet the sanity criteria it plays well politically.

I apolegize for getting carried away but the insistence that everyone has to be in one party or the other irks me to no end. S^%&$ both parties and the tea pee'rs. They have earned their low and even lower approval ratings.

March 20, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Harp - I agree that equality is not limited to any race, sex, age or orientation. But, that at least, would be a good place to start.

I also agree with you regarding the importance of education. But, I think the problems with education in this country are the consequence of broader, systemic problems with our society. Kids can't learn when they live in poverty, go to school hungry, come from broken homes, etc. It is easy to blame the parents and, I would agree, to come extent. But, we all share responsibility for a social order that perpetuates a cycle of poverty and multiple generations of children that are unable to benefit from education.

To the extent that we are talking about just the education system, it would be too easy to find failures of government at federal, state and local levels. But, we also have to fault a society that does not value education and does not value the teachers to whom we entrust our children.

Whether we are talking education or other public services, government would be, at best, my second choice. My clear first choice would be personal responsibility. Unfortunately, humanity has proven multiple times over that we are incapable of the kind of self control that is essential for effective self government. History has also demonstrated that an unregulated private sector is a formula for fascism.

And, as a footnote, I never suggested that we should all be of the same party.

March 20, 2011 at 7 p.m.
Clara said...

At last! Thanks Clay and tech staff! It's been frustrating not being able to acknowledge those who wondered where I was.
Most times, I was ill. Then when I felt able,I couldn't get on to comment and give thanks to those that thought of me.

Alprova, I have been able to read the comments, but not make any.

This condition has been remedied. I'm very glad you're back, too.


I notice that all those who, like me, are willing to take in account and weigh what they have to offer. But there is the hide-bound and unrelenting argument by some that we are Liberals. Communists, Socialists, etc.

It's good to be back on with you all, however, and no one can appreciate more than I do, the opportunity to make my own judgements of what is offered.


March 20, 2011 at 7:51 p.m.
Clara said...

I wonder if anyone noticed that the Snake on the T-shirt is a rattler, while the others seem to be a rather harmless species.

March 20, 2011 at 7:56 p.m.
fairmon said...


Those without strong parental support is why I think we have an obligation to do all possible to fill that void. We have as much obligation to encourage and motivate those without family and parental support as we do to provide the opportunities we agree on. Kids should be clothed and have daily healthy meals.

Re: footnote. I don't think we should be of any party. I have and will most likely again vote a split ticket which included in our last congressional race an independent. I detest the way both parties sing in chorus about an issue with a sprinkling to pacify their constituents. Do you ever wonder if even one of them have principles of their own?

Does anything come to mind as a significant improvement in our educational system since the federal department of education was established as part of the D.C. bureaucracy in 1980? 4200 employees and around a $64 billion dollar budget. Their primary role is to distribute funds and collect data.

Our funding process, school boards, the teachers union and top heavy administrations are not in the best interest of students the educational process or good teachers.

If advocating abolishing those departments that qualify as near useless or abolishing those parts of a department that are redundant, over lap and add little value is conservative then label me conservative on that issue.

March 20, 2011 at 8:01 p.m.
canarysong said...


It's good to see POO represented here again! (As you can see there has been no shortage of BS, however.) I hope this means you are recovering.

I, for one, never noticed the difference in the snakes. Clay is very clever. It looks to me like one of the dead snakes toward the back is 'sanity'; I couldn't agree more.

March 20, 2011 at 8:45 p.m.
steve_smith_tn said...

I wish there was an ignore button so that I didn't have to see the Francis, Blackwater, and DudeAbides comments. If I wanted to see insults, I'd watch Hannity or that Ed guy.

As far as where to go from here - the government is terrible at spurring economic growth. Economists have pretended to know how to do it and we all act like characters in the Emperor has No Clothes. All the government can do is pick winners and losers. That's not government, its tyranny. The solution is simple - spend less than the revenue you take in and apply the surplus to past debt. No program, company, media, branch of the military or person is entitled to anything. Don't just cut projected increases - cut everything some real amount.

As far as poverty goes - all we have is a poverty of culture. When everyone has their own culture, there is no common culture. Without a common culture America is an abstract land with arbitrary borders. That may be where we are now now that every 19 year old is an "educated" philosopher who can't produce anything unless it is in iambic pentameter or alternative to pre-1960s America.

While that era might not have been perfect, at least people then knew the value of work and the education necessary to gain valuable vocational skills. As far as kids not being able to learn because of poverty - bull. Poor people are no less smart than the wealthy. They know the words to more country and/or rap songs than I do. Some poor kids excel and rise above their parents who lay in crack and meth houses. Actually, more would learn more if they were poorer. Nothing sparks effort like 1200 calories worth of rice and beans a day, two sets of clothes and one (or no) pair of shoes - not athletic ones. God knows parents don't require effort of their kids unless its on the athletic field. Why work when the roof, the food and athletic courts are nearly free?

People need to get hungry, both figuratively and literally. Corporations, the favored darlings of the governing class, and the chronically unproductive need to know loss. Our Republic cannot survive another decade of NAFTA-GATT and all the Corporate theft it has engendered, nor can it last long if we can't keep the lazy and crazy from out-breeding the productive. Yeah - I said it. At some point there has to be some disincentive to birth fatherless children. The rest of us cannot bear the responsibility for feeding the "flash mobs" that continue to shoot up Coolidge Park for much longer.

Continued below -

March 20, 2011 at 9:05 p.m.
steve_smith_tn said...

The current middle class is the problem too. No economic system can provide electric garage door openers and 60 inch plasma t.v.s for everyone. Middle classers have lived like the wealthy for far too long. Take that limited wealth and produce something that provides the lower classes some purpose to take up oxygen. Quit telling your kids to get an education so they won't have to work hard. Everyone has to work hard. Those that don't work hard are called bums, no matter how much is in their 401k. Quit buying crap from the far East - even if it has double the RAM. How many damned computerized toilet bowl cleaning brushes do you need? And no, you have no right to retire and make me pay you a social security salary while you live in your vacation home in Costa Rica or tour the country in your r.v. Orphans need parents. Working parents need baby-sitters, Wal mart needs greeters. And no I'm not paying for your hip replacement because of your lifetime bad golf swing. Limp or sell something to pay the surgeon. Likewise, I shouldn't have to pay for a medicare RASCAL so you can have the best mobility at your retirement home.

Can you tell I'm mad? I'm the maddest at this hack doodler for helping the Republicans co-opt the Teat Party. That is what it has become. It only wants to eliminate certain teats instead of most of them. It could use some folks pissed of at multi-national corporations. Those snakes deserve stomping just like the ones in the cartoon. I guess the doodler thinks all of those snakes (the current condition of SS, medicare as we know it, welfare for single young men, public broadcasting for the Starbucks class, and education that ranks 29th in the world) are hunky dory pets instead of the venomous plague that imperils our Republic. Now somebody critique me because i spelled something wrong. -finis.

March 20, 2011 at 9:06 p.m.
trburrows said...

harp imo, bring back the wpa, soup lines, and anything that makes hungry out of work people do something useful. stop all wars, no policing other people and other countries. there is a lot more but you get the point.

March 20, 2011 at 9:23 p.m.
dude_abides said...

steve_smith_tn looks, from the last three fourths of your post, that you need to ignore yourself as well! You can trash me for getting my hackles up wrt Francis' frothing, but you shouldn't include Blackwater48. I have found him to be rather measured and thoughtful until attacked. Why don't you announce your presence and then we can all use our inside voice. winkwinknudgenudge

March 20, 2011 at 9:29 p.m.
canarysong said...


Do you feel better now? (deep cleansing breath, Steve)

March 20, 2011 at 9:38 p.m.
trburrows said...

ike what you said worked great for over 200 years. lets go back to utopia.

I would start with our military budget. I've said it before, but we could cut a ton of brass from the pentagon and not lose one ounce of military effectiveness. Over $200 billion in Afghanistan this year alone and for what? Next I'd start closing down our bases located over seas.

bw, this is brilliant, you dont have to respond to me, i understand but this is great and i agree

March 20, 2011 at 9:50 p.m.
trburrows said...

canary read the constitution, education is the states business not the federal gov

March 20, 2011 at 9:55 p.m.
blackwater48 said...


Conservatives see Liberals as selfish communists who want to REDISTRIBUTE THEIR wealth to everyone.

Liberals see Conservatives as country club millionaires who are singularly driven to SCREW EVERYONE over to make more money.

Conservatives see America as the land of opportunity where everyone has an equal chance at making the American Dream come true. Success is usually achieved through hard work and determination. There are always exceptions.

Liberals see America as the land of dead ends where the rich have all the advantages and everyone else needs help - pell grants for college, Unions for a living wage - to level the playing field. Success is usually achieved through rich parents who send you to the best schools and set you up in business. There are always exceptions.

Broad enough strokes for everyone?

March 20, 2011 at 10:08 p.m.
trburrows said...

broad enough??? you are 100% correct sir.

March 20, 2011 at 10:18 p.m.
dude_abides said...

pssst...bw48...s_s_t accused you of a bit of the ultraviolence. ixnay on the amscray.

March 20, 2011 at 11:06 p.m.
canarysong said...


You are right, responsibility for education does fall to the states according to the constitution. I am impressed that you know that.

If you will notice, I said that Thomas Jefferson fought hard for education, I did not say that he won his battles. He did, indeed, fight for public education's inclusion in the constitution, but that idea was not met with enough support. When his effort failed on a national level, he redirected his efforts to his beloved state of Virginia. Even there he was only partially successful; they only approved his plans for a public university, not the public elementary or secondary schools that he felt were of primary importance.

I'm not necessarily advocating that the present system be changed to turn education completely over to the federal government, but I do think that federal oversight to ensure some level of uniformity is a good idea, primarily for the reasons that I mentioned at the end of my previous post. And I am completely opposed to the idea of education being completely privatized, as some on this forum have suggested on other threads. You certainly have the right to disagree with me.

March 20, 2011 at 11:18 p.m.
trburrows said...

i only said that because it was said that lack of education from the gov would be wrong. i dont think the feds should collect our money, waste half, and spend the rest to suit their supporters. i like your idea of uniformity over the states. dont know how to do that without waste from feds. honest, i hate the feds doing anything but defense because of crooks and waste.

March 20, 2011 at 11:34 p.m.
canarysong said...


I think that we all agree that there has been some waste and that that is the first place we should look when tightening our belts. I appreciate that you are putting more thought into your posts the last couple of days.

btw; I reread the last part of my post earlier in the day on education and I saw that my wording was very sloppy. A lack of proof-reading or lost my train of thought, I don't know. That's what I get for trying to do too many things at once. Kudos for catching that!

March 21, 2011 at 12:30 a.m.
blackwater48 said...


"You needn't take it any further, sir. You've proved to me that all this ultraviolence and killing is wrong, wrong, and terribly wrong. I've learned me lesson, sir. I've seen now what I've never seen before. I'm cured! Praise god!"

Still, if a few of these droogs might noogle a boot at the Korova Milkbar while I woosied a rare and polly Devochka...such bliss.

March 21, 2011 at 12:46 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

bennett is an idiot. We are in the middle of a Federal financial train wreck and all he wants to do is mock the only strong voice demanding action.

If he wanted to draw something worth looking at it would be the greying obama running off to Brazil on another family vacation while the country burns.

March 21, 2011 at 9:20 a.m.
Oz said...

librul said... Fully agree, lkeithlu - but I'd still like to see most of the politically cancerous conservarepublicrats lying in pools of their own blood.

Great example of the hate fueled speech liberals say they don't engage in. Librul could be a danger to conservative politicians.

March 21, 2011 at 9:24 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Even Stewart and Cobert have managed to mock the focal point of what ails us today. bennett is so ideologically rigid he is willing to throw out 95% of his potential material rather than satire the chosen one or the democraTic party.

Does the TFP really think they are getting a return from this clown’s work?

March 21, 2011 at 9:51 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Bennett, you forgot to draw the liberal snake in the grass with your face on it. They are, after all, stomping the hell out of your kind.

March 21, 2011 at 9:53 a.m.
Tmbrwlfofga said...

I think Woody and DougMUSN would make a great governing team! The TEA party will prove to be the greatest enemy to the Republican Party in 2012, similar as the Reform Party was in the election of 1992. The difference being is that the TEA party does not offer anything new, it just serves as a pulpit for the frustration, anger, and disillusion within the Republican Party. The movement itself lacks credibility in even its name. I always found it amazing that a movement began in 2009 with the premise that we were "Taxed Enough Already", when we in fact had a tax cut that year. Why weren't we "Taxed Enough Already" during the eight years of George W. Bush. Furthermore, nearly all of the talking heads of the TEA party are well known Republicans who are simply exploiting the anger within their own party. Are those that align themselves with the TEA party willing to go it alone and support a candidate that is exclusively a member of the TEA party and listed as such on the ballot in November 2012 as a member of the TEA party. If so, I hope that President Obama personally thanks you during his inaugural address in 2013. The Republican Party has some great people within it, such as Mitt Romney, Charlie Crist, and Colin Powell to name a few that have enjoyed success without pandering to the fringe of their party. George Washington in his farewell address to Congress warned the nation against the formation of political parties, because he felt that it took away a degree of independence from the person elected to serve. My how we should have listened!

March 21, 2011 at 10:19 a.m.
limric said...

As usual, a great cartoon Clay. Keep up the good work. Agitating conservatards has never been funner, and their reactions are even gooder.

March 21, 2011 at 10:24 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...


bennett could spill his ink on the page and you would declare it another great cartoon!

March 21, 2011 at 10:44 a.m.
canarysong said...


"Does the TFP really think they are getting a return from this clown’s work?"

--- Well, we're all here (once again) aren't we? I would say that they realize just how lucky they are to have him.

BTW --- Calling him a clown is not an insult; this is humor, remember?

March 21, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.
blackwater48 said...


The brilliance of the cartoon lies in the fact that the tea bagger, wearing the 'don't tread on me' shirt, is treading the crap out of social security, medicare, public broadcasting, &c.

Graphically poignant, as evidenced by the tantrum being thrown collectively by our pointy-headed conservative friends.

Which amuses the rest of us to no end.

(Tea) party on, boys!

March 21, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.
limric said...

Much disputatious louts opine this day. Some though are partaking in an endless unfolding of an almost infinite panorama, a limitless expantion of never-ending, ever-widening sphere of opportunity for exhilarating punditry, matchless adventure, sublime uncertainty, and boundless entertainment. When the clouds teabagger insult gather overhead, intelligence should accept the presence of these indwelling adjusters, and thus we need to be able to look beyond the mists of their moral perplexity into the clear shining of the sun of eternal righteousness on the beckoning heights of the mansion of words. SeaMonkey & BRP - please continue to use the service entrance.

Keep spilling Clay, it's needed.

March 21, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
canarysong said...


I just went back and read the last posts on the previous cartoon.....WOW!.....

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, sometimes beyond the point at which I should stop. Your post from 1:25 am is sad, on so many levels. It makes me sorry that I complimented you on this thread. It seemed that you might be turning around and learning to listen and to think before you lash out. But I suppose whether you think first or not doesn't even matter if this type of thing is what you really believe anyway.

March 21, 2011 at 1:33 p.m.
sage1 said...

I'm just glad to see one of the snakes carry the WELFARE name! All we hear from Washington is how we need to cut Social Security and Medicare. NEVER a word about WELFARE and MEDICAID! If they would only make WELFARE a WORK RELATED handout (AFTER the drug test is passed) it would cut the rolls tremendously. I'm drug tested when I MAKE the money, recepients should be DRUG TESTED to GET the Check.

March 21, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.
canarysong said...

Sage1 said (regarding Medicaid recipients);

"recepients should be DRUG TESTED to GET the Check"

Because of the volunteer work that I've done, I've known a lot of disabled people that receive Medicaid. To begin with, many of these people have to go through an often long, expensive, and sometimes humiliating process to prove that they are actually disabled. Then they can have a very hard time even finding a doctor that will accept Medicaid; the number of doctors that do seems to be declining each year. If the patient is unlucky enough to suffer from an 'orphan' disorder, one that is still poorly understood by the mainstream medical establishment, then an effective treatment may not be covered at all. You want to add drug testing to all of this? It is not OK to treat people as if they are criminals simply because, through no fault of their own, they have suffered misfortune. Everyone, regardless of their circumstances, deserves dignity. (btw, I don't think that valued employees should be treated like that either)

If you go out and do some work trying to help those who are truly in need, I think that your apparent perception of the aid programs being used primarily by slackers and cheats might change.

March 21, 2011 at 3 p.m.
limric said...

Sage1, Yea yea sure. I'll go along with drug testing welfare recipients when all members of congress, the senate and all peripheral cabinets, corporate CEO's, board of directors etc receiving corporate 'welfare' are required to do the same. And lets not forget other nations (All of Israel for example). Would you want the same for unemployment? Or would that be a "work related" handout also. Should they all submit to unannounced searches? Next you'll want political affiliation means testing? For you though, just poor Americans need be tested. Sad, truly sad.
Good lord man, the tenor of your post reminds me of East Germany.

March 21, 2011 at 4:26 p.m.
fairmon said...


two questions:

1-Why do you think fewer Dr.s are accepting medicare/medicaid?

2-Would you agree it may be reasonable to require testing of those in good health receiving section 8 housing, food stamps, utility assistance, cell phone time, weatherization where new windows doors and H&V units are installed at no cost to the recipient. Forget about testing the ill and infirmed unless they have their hand in all the buckets. Would treating people with dignity not include providing them meaningful work to earn the freebies. Check out habitat for humanities approach to accomplish that.

I promise you in this area there is no effort to determine who could but won't and who would but can't. Your work with those needing assistance is admirable, I have done the same, maybe not at the same level as you. I doubt you have had the opportunities I have to see the rest of the story. Report it and you get someone that is aggravated because you are doing so, the standard response is we know there is a lot like that but we are behind and "they" won't give us any help.

I took a very desperate person to the human resources office to assist them with paper work etc. After waiting for over two hours they were told we have a meeting this afternoon until closing you will have to come back later. Another two hour plus wait the next day for no reason I could see. After a little over 3 months of my paying for their needs they did get assistance. I wish I had a video of the office operation and some of the observations of abusers of the programs to enable understanding of my disdain and total lack of regard for inefficient and poorly administered federal programs. I would be willing to double or more my local taxes to see several federal programs, the department of education and a few others abolished.

Don't jump to the conclusion I am talking about regulations and enforcement there of. I am incensed at the way tax money is wasted misappropriated and the incompetence of some of their staff due to their hiring process. Your attitude and others seems to be we need to not worry about that it is worth it and we all need to do more. Many more needing and deserving could be helped if the waste and the abusers were eliminated.

I know, there are some exceptions with some very capable, caring and hard working federal employees but they aren't in the majority.

I still like you, give me a hug or pat and tell me to calm down.

March 21, 2011 at 6:41 p.m.
canarysong said...


"Would treating people with dignity not include providing them meaningful work to earn the freebies?"

Of course it would.... if they are able. Most of the people that I have worked with are so ill (permanently) that they struggle just to feed themselves and take care of other life necessities each day. They have a better day here and there, but they really are unemployable. And I have never met even one that didn't want more than anything else to be able to work. Remember, these are not people that are relatively 'fine' except that they are, for example, mobility-impaired. These are people who are really ill, who may not be able to get out of bed on any given day. Remember how you felt the last time you had the flu, on your worst day. Chances are that you felt pretty sorry for yourself and had, or at least wished you had, someone taking care of you. Now imagine feeling like that for 10, 20, or 30 YEARS, without respite. These people can often barely get themselves a glass of water, much less build a house, Habitat for Humanity style.

Contrary to what a lot of people here seem to think, being disabled does not get you a life of comfortable leisure and a fat check each month; it does not get you any type of good 'attention'; it rarely even gets you the luxury of being treated like a human being.

I agree with you that there is some waste and probably even a few people who really do abuse the system. None of us, of any political ideology, is likely to disagree with you that this is unconscionable and needs to be stopped. This money needs to go where it will do some good.

The person that you helped to navigate the system was lucky to have you by their side. I can tell that you have a kind and generous heart. Unfortunately, I do not see the same in some of the other people posting sometimes.

I hope you're calm now..... I still like you too :-) Here is my electronic hug..... P q (oh well, it's the best I could come up with!)

March 21, 2011 at 8:05 p.m.
canarysong said...


I'd like to make one more point...

Most of the ill and disabled people that I've worked with spent their lives doing all the right things. They went to college, worked hard, and loved their jobs. They have been nurses, teachers, college professors, journalists, therapists, and artists, among others. They hardly fit the stereotype of lazy people out to pick the pockets of beleaguered taxpayers.

Now I'll try to calm down!

March 21, 2011 at 8:27 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

brp is correct.....the only strong voice for change is the tea party....the democrat party are practically communists and the republican party still hasn't shown me they have the cojones to make real changes. the republicans and tea party people elected on november 2nd have to perform...'re a dumb ass..there is no evidence from what i write that i'm "neo nazi"...none..but there's plenty of evidence that liberals, at least lefties like you...aren't real americans...

and t here's no racist element to what i write.. you just thought you'd toss it in there to make it the usual liberal mo....

won't work...

find one racist thing i said on this can't. because you're down to calling names now. your man in the white has bombed and is bombing like the man you criticized did, got nothing left but name calling..

you libs are the love to put people in special groups...and divide....the federal government loves to divide..loves to catagorize. ..

we're all americans, dude...and right now it's the federal government, and it's disire to drive us off a cliff, that's the enemy..

you libs love to label anyone who thinks the fed- eral governement is out of control as neo nazis- domestic terrorists...etc ....

it doesn't work..november 2nd, 2010 proved that you and other libs have failed to have that label stick.

March 21, 2011 at 9:02 p.m.
canarysong said...


And to answer your first two questions:

One - I'm not sure. I think that maybe doctors are required to jump through more hoops than they used to and they don't want to deal with the paperwork. Or maybe they are being compensated at a lower rate. Something has changed.

Two - No, I don't think that people should be treated like suspected criminals just because they are poor and need (hopefully temporary) assistance. If they have a known history of drug abuse that would be an entirely different matter.

March 21, 2011 at 9:14 p.m.
SeaMonkey said...

limric, alprova and blackwater...oh, and dude.....

you were fell for obamamania....i can

at least say i saw through him from day one.

you're cheerleaders in cute little outfits...except

for you're wereing a tank top and boxers..and you have a joint in your cigarette holder. and a beer in one hand.....kind of like hunter s. thompson, cheerleader combo...

gooooooooooo bennett!!

bennett, bennett he's our man, if he can't do it nobody can.

anyone can preach to the choir...but there is no insight in bennetts' you know it.

March 21, 2011 at 9:28 p.m.
canarysong said...

Francis, is that you?

March 21, 2011 at 9:53 p.m.
dude_abides said...

SeaMonkey... 5 questions: Do your eyebrows connect? Do you beat your dog? Do you have more than 1 week's worth of MREs? Do you watch Storm Chasers? Are you proud to be an American, where at least you know you're free?

March 21, 2011 at 10:12 p.m.
hambone said...


March 21, 2011 at 10:29 p.m.
MTJohn said...

SeaMonkey - Did you vote twice each for Ronald Reagan and Bush II or were you smart enough to see through them, too?

March 21, 2011 at 10:40 p.m.
blackwater48 said...


Conventional wisdom claims the "Tea Party" sprang from "nowhere" (ha, ha) and has dramatically grabbed the national spotlight.

The "Tea Party" has also split the GOP and represents little more than another doomed independent voice in the political wilderness.

Oh, you guys aren't new. You're not even original. And you're going to torpedo Republican candidates in 2012 on local, state, and national ballots.

The same way Ross Perot sabotaged the chances of a second term for George H.W. Bush in 1992, the same way Ralph Nader locked the White House door for Al Gore in 2000, the "Tea Party" is hell bent on dividing the Republican Party and handing elections over to Democrats.

And the funny thing is, you don't seem to mind losing as long as you stick to your 'principles.' In the 2000 midterm election Republicans would have taken control of the Senate without "Tea Party" candidates Christine O’Donnell, Sharron Angle, Ken Buck, Carly Fiorina, and Linda McMahon.

Sarah Palin singe handedly gave Democrats their razor thin Senate majority.

"The 'Tea Party' is not an organized political party. It's a movement." (insert joke here)

(Tea) party on, boys.

March 21, 2011 at 11:56 p.m.
fairmon said...


Dr.s are avoiding medicare patients because in some cases they are not compensated enough to cover expenses. Have you seen the stats on the number of physicians quitting their practice and changing careers? Many due to all the requirement and expenses imposed on them by state and federal governments, insurance companies and in some cases local governments get in on the grab. I would like to see an investigative news show by a good journalist on this subject and the number quitting, not someone in a studio doing interviews.

The ill people like those you describe should receive all the help possible. Most professional people I know save, invest and have a disability insurance policy to provide an income similar to their income in their profession in case of a disabling injury or illness. I am sure some don't and should receive more help than they get.

I have no problem requring able bodied and able to work people that receive assistance with all their expenses, some for years, being tested just like those earning and paying taxes used to support them. The government requires some employers to have a random testing program and other employers do so for their own protection. Those arrested for use, distributing or being under the influence continue getting welfare.

I am not alone in estimating that about one third of those receiving federal and state assistance do not need or should not need or receive it. Some administrators agree that the number is in that range but say it is difficult to prevent without risking denying the truly needy help (what a cop out). I am not talking about unemployment for 26 weeks or other short term assistance. I am talking about those that think it is a career and a right they have. The number is higher than you seem willing to accept. You may spend so much time on good causes you never see the ugly side of the picture.

If what I worked so hard to have is going to be redistributed I would like to see it done responsibly. I would prefer being required to give it direct then I would know it was done right without paying some lazy incompetent acting like it was money out of their pocket to do it.

Say good night canarysong, sleep well, we shall continue later.

March 22, 2011 at 12:50 a.m.
delmar said...

To canarysong and harp, first off good morning! If I may horn in on your conversation for a second and throw my $.02 worth in,,,, it would be interesting to know how much money is lost on fraud, the investigation of fraud, and the litigation of fraud. I'm sure the amount would make us all sick and hurl. (pun intended) How much better could the system be if it were not for the fraud and abuse. The other sickening thing is that, IMO, it will never stop. I don't want to get all philosophical and mushy headed so I'll quit now because that's where I was headed. Sorry, just another pointless comment from me.

Have a great day everyone.

March 22, 2011 at 7:54 a.m.
limric said...

With the morals of a typical deranged male-page-seducing Republicon, SeaMonky (aka Francis) spews the most vile, vicious, libelous, vulgar, childish, insulting, violent, anti-social, psychotic ravings I've ever come across. This sanctimonious Obama-blaming zealot brings nothing to these forums but apocalyptic Hannity-humping hyperbole. When one considers his brainless gay-hooker-patronizing chickenhawk status, SeaMonky’s lying reality-denying Teabagger nonsense will continue unabated - confirming a true idiocracy.

You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts; which for you are based on a realistic ambiguity. (you’ll have to think about that one)

Next time I visit a McDonald's and say, 'I'd like some fries.' Please try not to reply, “Would you like some fries with that?”

I shall not address you directly again.

March 22, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.
fairmon said...


You are probably right, it is not likely to stop or be reduced. There is no incentive for those distributing the funds to detect and stop abuse and fraud. A larger budget and number participating secures their employment.

This does not mean some are not dedicated hard working and objective but that does not appear to be the norm. Some say the programs reduce the crime rate. I still haven't understood how allowing a crime reduces crime.

March 22, 2011 at 9:26 a.m.
canarysong said...

Limric, re SeaMonkey/Francis' rant;

Personally, I'm still trying to get the imagined picture of alprova, blackwater, and dude_abides dressed in cute little cheerleader outfits out of my head....


"Most professional people I know save, invest and have a disability insurance policy to provide an income similar to their income in their profession in case of a disabling injury or illness"

--- That's why I didn't mention doctors, lawyers, and business owners. People who have been able to build up a substantial nest egg are those that are able to make it through a lifetime disability the best. Unfortunately, those who were teachers, journalists, or others in lower-paying professions can quickly find themselves struggling. It is very hard for most people to save enough to adequately prepare for 20 to 50 years of disability. Those who fare the worst are those who become disabled in their 20s or 30s and are unmarried, without the benefit of a spouse's support. BTW, if someone buys disability insurance to provide a level of income similar to their working salary, they are likely to be in for a rude shock. Some illnesses can bring many thousands of dollars of annual expenses that are not covered by any type of public or private compensation. Being sick can be VERY expensive.

"I have no problem requiring able bodied and able to work people that receive assistance with all their expenses"

--- Neither do I, there is a lot that needs to be done. Perhaps more programs could be designed to put the unemployed into positions where they are doing work that teaches them new job skills while benefiting the public at large, maybe in rebuilding infrastructure or aiding those who truly cannot work.

"You may spend so much time on good causes you never see the ugly side of the picture"

--- Sorry, from where I sit, wasted lives ARE the ugly side of the picture!

"If what I worked so hard to have is going to be redistributed I would like to see it done responsibly. I would prefer being required to give it direct then I would know it was done right without paying some lazy incompetent acting like it was money out of their pocket to do it."

--- I share your frustration, but you know as well as I do that if we suddenly said "OK, no more aid programs. We want you all to go out and find someone In need and do what you can to help.", the result would be chaos and a lot of suffering. The system isn't perfect, but it's what we have until someone comes up with a more workable solution.

March 22, 2011 at 11:13 a.m.
limric said...

I apologize to all the individuals (except one) posting within this forum, regardless of political or social leanings, for my snap reprisal and subsequent denunciation of someone that challenges intelligent debate, humorous commentary or opinions – with belligerence and malice. I shant repeat such guttersnipe oratory in the future. Sorry.

March 22, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.
fairmon said...


There has to be a better way to assist those we both know must have help. I have a mother that is costing me a fortune but I am probably one reason she doesn't have a fortune. I do credit my parents for the success I have had, not wealthy but comfortable and I am thankful I am able to help. Assisting her has resulted in seeing and helping others of a similar age that don't have family assistance and support, a sad situation.

A requirement to donate locally would work better than the federal attempt at mediocrity. For ex; Essentially all administrative expenses of our local UW are paid by a trust set up years ago by a local contributor. 98 cents of every dollar is distributed to qualifying charities. Those charities applying are visited and reviewed by teams of local volunteers, professionals and business people. The charity purpose, plans and effectiveness of those operating the charity are scrutinized carefully and monitored routinely. Those charities do tremendous work with those of all ages and needs. It is impressive and works well with most local businesses liberally contributing both people and money plus encouraging employees to do so. It is something essentially any community could do. Note: There are those that find a reason not to contribute including the national UW bad publicity which is not involved or supported locally. There are some that justify not contributing because of some charty they don't like but they never bother to learn what good work they do. Selfishness is no harder to find than system abusers.

I can only imagine how much more local charities could do if every citizen was required or allowed to contribute an amount equal to that which the governments confiscate under the pretense of helping. The government could allow a validated "reduction" of taxes up to a percent of taxes due for contributions to qualifying charities. Think about how much this would reduce government administrative inefficiencies and abuse by those gaming the system.

I have shared my opinions with our senator and congressman. I am sure nothing will change but I have vented and feel better. Thanks for listening and responding.

March 22, 2011 at 5:22 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I have only ever seen one person we all know in a cheerleader outfit, and that was George W. Bush. Francis can google that image. Then he can go hunting with Dick Cheney. What a couple! FrankenMonkey, did you vote to re-elect Bush/Cheney?

March 22, 2011 at 7:28 p.m.


you may not have made any racist comments here, but i have seen the ones you have made before. one that comes to mind is when you "accidentally" misspelled aceriggers name with an "N" in a strategic location. that's just one example and i shan't be wasting my time with others as my point is made. maybe you are so stupid you forget what you write, but we don't, and we know who you are.

March 22, 2011 at 10:17 p.m.
trburrows said...

with respect, there is a huge difference between rasist and stating pure facts. stating facts no matter what they are, is not rasist.

March 23, 2011 at 1:04 a.m.
acerigger said...


March 23, 2011 at 7:02 p.m.
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