published Tuesday, August 14th, 2012

The Romney Plan

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." - P. J. O'Rourke

[Backwards, as usual, Bennett.]

August 14, 2012 at 12:12 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

You mean Obamanomics? The worst "recovery" ever, the worst deficits ever, no plan ever to balance the budget, Medicare going off a cliff, and he wants another four years? What's he drinking? Just Ye Olde Orthodox Liberalism.

August 14, 2012 at 12:17 a.m.
moon4kat said...

The worst recovery, thanks to Republican obstructionists, like Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor, who pledged to make Obama (and the US government) fail.

August 14, 2012 at 12:34 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

PERFECT INVERSION of reality. The druken driver is obviously Obama. It is time for a little bit of responsiblity from DC, if that is possible.

August 14, 2012 at 1:28 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Clay "bulbs" Bennett: Most of your tunes are just bad. This one is just dumb.

August 14, 2012 at 2:24 a.m.
timbo said...

moonkat...Obstructionists?...That is what the opposition party does. Are you such an idiot that you think that one day the Republicans should just throw their principles out the window and give the Democrats their way?

Did the Democrats do that when Bush was in or were they just "obstructionists?"

I didn't like Bush but not for the reason you didn't like him. He had problems because he acted fiscally like a Democrat. He spent money like a drunken sailor. He ran up huge deficits which are at the root of our problem.

I didn't think anyone could spend more than Bush, then along came Obama. Bush's deficits were 5 trillion in 8 years and Obama's were 5 trillion is 3.5 years. He is twice as bad.

What kind of imbecile (Obama) would use the same tactic of his predecessor used to screw things up? You don't get yourself out of a deficit by spending more. Why don't you try that with your budget? See you in bankruptcy court.

By the way, Obama had a Democrat congress the first two years. Also, the Obama "budget" was voted down twice unanimously by congress, including the Democrats. Obama and the democrats have been breaking the law by not passing a budget for 3.5 years.

Again, the liberal immaturity and naivete are astounding.

August 14, 2012 at 5:35 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I know very little about economics. It would be nice for once for the posters here to explain why supply side will work (conservatives) or won't work (liberals), using evidence to back them up. (rather than just bashing each other)

August 14, 2012 at 6:55 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Paul Ryan was asked by a high-profile reporter "what evidence do you have for saying Pres. Obama's plan won't work?" He replied, "Math."

August 14, 2012 at 6:55 a.m.

Blackwater, now enters left and demands that free-market supporters defend his pejorative campaign label for capitalism.

August 14, 2012 at 7:19 a.m.
alprova said...

Timbo wrote: "Are you such an idiot that you think that one day the Republicans should just throw their principles out the window and give the Democrats their way?"

The Republicans threw their principles out the window years ago, and are only catering to a very select few of Americans.

"By the way, Obama had a Democrat congress the first two years."

And that Congress worked on behalf of the American people too.

"Also, the Obama "budget" was voted down twice unanimously by congress, including the Democrats."

The time and money wasting votes conducted in March and May of this year were not votes on the actual 2,000 page 2013 budget submitted to Congress by the President.

That real budget proposal sat on a table and was substituted by Republicans in both Houses of Congress with a mock, 52 page booklet with "the President's Budget" written on the cover.

Of course it was voted down unanimously in both Houses, because it was not the real 2013 budget. It was a GOP sponsored political stunt pulled for the very reason that you posted your take on it today.

I suspect you know the true facts surrounding those votes in Congress and are cheerleading the Republicans despite their obvious childish political stunt.

There are people running around this country believing that there was an actual vote in Congress on the President's submitted budget proposal, when the truth is, that proposal has yet to be brought to the floor of the House of Representatives to this date, which must pass the Budget first.

And you want to make the audacious claim that the Republicans are not currently the party that is absolutely obstructing legislative efforts in Congress?

"Again, the liberal immaturity and naivete are astounding."

THe level of dishonesty coming from conservative cheerleaders is amazing.

August 14, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.
alprova said...

Jack Dennis wrote: "Paul Ryan was asked by a high-profile reporter "what evidence do you have for saying Pres. Obama's plan won't work?" He replied, "Math."..."

Paul Ryan's plan, his contentions that it saves Medicare, and HIS math are not supported by the CBO.

The CBO has clearly supported the math contained in the Affordable Health Care Act, and continues to do so.

Paul Ryan's and now Mitt Romney will do whatever they can do to justify giving wealthy income earners another huge tax break and walk on the backs of the Middle Class and this nation's Seniors to do it.

August 14, 2012 at 8:01 a.m.

lkeithlu, you are not alone in being a statist who does not understand economics. Statists like easy analyses that simply track market cycles with whether a D or an R happened to occupy the White House. They blame supply-side economics for the terrible results of Republicans running as conservatives but capitulating to congressional liberals throughout their administrations. They credit Keynesian (statist) economics with the economic success of the 90s, despite the fact that, with the leadership of a free-market/cut-government-spending Congress, federal spending decreased and capital gains taxes were lowered. They ignore the presence, much less the importance, of the LEGISLATIVE BRANCH of government, where tax and spending bills originate and can ultimately end (via veto override powers).

Here are two, more accurate, summaries of the effects of the government-growth/distribution (Keynesian) model vs. supply-side economics over the course of in the last thirty years or so. (See my post yesterday to go back farther.)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577450910257188398.html http://capitalismmagazine.com/2006/06/the-trickle-down-left-preserving-a-vision/

And here’s a brief introduction to why labeling free markets as some “trickle-down” coddling of billionaires at the expense of average workers is a straw man argument (well, “argument” is being generous). Lots of good stuff at the American Enterprise Institute website, as well.

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2009/04/tax-cuts-and-the-trickle-down-economics-straw-man/

Gotta go now and be productive. Back later.

August 14, 2012 at 8:16 a.m.
dude_abides said...

The truck-boat-truck is still in primer from the last republican economic hit and run.

August 14, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Thanks for the links, WWWTW!

August 14, 2012 at 8:53 a.m.
Leaf said...

Why am I suddenly thirsty?

August 14, 2012 at 8:58 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Anyone else notice how Toon Boy never EVER draws a positive cartoon about Obama or his Presidency? He simply has no basis on which to draw. Where there is no credit, there is only blame.

August 14, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
KnottaHero said...

When Reagan was President in 1984, 85% of non-dependents paid federal income tax. now in 2012, 51% pay federal income tax. It cannot work.

.

August 14, 2012 at 9:01 a.m.
fairmon said...

Trickle down is the label given by opponents to the belief by others that allowing people to retain money to invest in and grow a business resulting in higher employment is not a valid theory.

It is like the chicken and the egg debating between demand and supply economics. If people are not working the demand doesn't happen without higher debt, a short term stimulus or welfare. Several problems not being addressed include 1)the hidden cost due to taxes, fees, redundant regulations etc. of goods and services to the middle and lower income folks which is equal to that to those with higher incomes. 2) the reduced number of wealth creating manufacturing, farming, mining, fishing jobs therefore a services society making it nearly impossible to grow the economy. 3) there is no attempt to make American businesses competitive. 4) Americans have no loyalty to made in America purchasing even when price and quality are competitive.

There is one undeniable fact, the current rate of debt growth is not sustainable and will have a bad ending if not aggressively addressed. I don't wee either party willing to do that or taking the action necessary to do so.

August 14, 2012 at 9:07 a.m.
mymy said...

84 Days to Go!

August 14, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.
carlB said...

The Republican Party's political agendas and their ideologies have always destroyed the "balance" of this Republic's economy leaving a "mess" for the Democrats to fix. Let us not forget what happened and what Governments' role was after the fraud and the global economy helped cause the 2007 deep recession for preventing another great depression? Although it appears that the opponents of President Obama would prefer another great depression over a recovery from the 2007 recession. Whether the Republicans and the other opponents of President Obama want to admit or are still in denial of what the private enterprise systems with the help of our elected, lobbied, "leaders" did and have done to create the wage gap between the workers and the CEO's/Managers of the corporations and the "money changers." The facts are written in history and cannot be changed and it does not matter how some of the people want to see facts and want to rewrite history. Our Republic's economic well being was on the verge of another great depression at the end of 2008? The Voters were too "cute" in the 2010 elections, not realizing or not caring that this Republic was on the verge of another great depression when they voted to cause a stalemate in the US House of Rep. for the purpose of causing the failure of Obama's recover policies. Even after Bush W. admitted the reasons that he needed the unfunded, borrowed, $700 Billion Dollars, TARP money in September 2008.

Now we hear all of the lying and the manipulation of the truth against President Obama. How many of you anti Obama people are defending the lies against President Obama? "VOTE FOR THE TRUTH NOT THE LIES"

August 14, 2012 at 9:23 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Given the current political state of the nation and the cast of clowns from which to choose, I have chosen and I will not vote in November. Sad, but what's better - dung or crap?

August 14, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
carlB said...

I cannot understand why the voters' are not in an outrage and are not speaking out against the people who are telling them all of the negative things they are going to do against the people if they convince the voters to elect them. The elected and "wanta be" elected opponents of President Obama are putting out lies and misinformation as if the voters were as "dumb as rocks" and think that is what the voters want to hear for giving them an excuse to vote against President Obama and the other Democrats, but it does not make what they say, the truth, since they do not have any thing positive to "run on." We have important elections coming up in August and November 2012 and the voters who should be active and knowing who are on their side to vote for, are silent in their opinions and probably will not show up to vote for their own well being.

August 14, 2012 at 9:29 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

carlB,

Both political parties carry their share of blame. Until you recognize this and shed your party glasses you will just be deluding yourself.

August 14, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.
carlB said...

We have to get the voters to realize that the Republican "leaders" who are in control within the States, in Congress, and the candidates running to be President are making it clear that they are not for the workers or the people but have objectives to weaken and limit our governments' roles, with plans of "starving the beast" that gets in their way, for placing the private enterprise systems in control of everything they think is needed to be done in providing the needed public services for the people even after the "lobbied politicians" have helped the private systems set up the working conditions, with the development of the free trade agreements (global economy) which has caused/forced the decrease of the middle class tax base and the increase of people living in poverty. Does this attitude of the Republicans remind you of their "mind set" during the four years of the 1929 great depression before and even after FDR took over in 1933? How many of the voters really think the Republicans are being honest in their misinformation attacks against President Obama and in their untruthful efforts to prevent him from having a second term?

August 14, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Republican...Democrat...Republican...Democrat... Blah, Blah, Blah Go ahead and root for your team while both of them rob you blind.

August 14, 2012 at 9:38 a.m.
carlB said...

Let us make sure the truth stands out about which Party is trying to prevent another great depression after the 2007 deep recession and what the effects of it were on our jobs and our economy. Now the facts of the conditions in September 2008 should be well known by everybody. This was before President Obama was elected in November, 2008 and how the tactics of the Republicans turned/changed to very negative against Obama after he was elected President.

August 14, 2012 at 9:38 a.m.
carlB said...

BigRidgePatriot said... carlB, Both political parties carry their share of blame. Until you recognize this and shed your party glasses you will just be deluding yourself.

REPLY; BigRidgePatriot, I have said and repeated many times "not anybody or anyone is perfect." Are you suggesting that I and the other voters "just give it up" and not vote for whom we want to vote for? If you are, then it's not working. "VOTE FOR THE TRUTH NOT THE LIES" The voters with be smarter by November 6, 2012 and realize who has been lying to them.

August 14, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

mymy: Erskine Bowles. Back when dems had half a brain.

August 14, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Very interesting how the conservatives on this site accuse Obama of being everything from a Muslim extremist to an illegal alien, and then when it's handy call him a part of one of the two established power structures that are sharing the loot of our destruction. They then have the temerity to accuse liberals of being emotional and illogical. Sack up, gentlemen. Cogitate, don't hyperventilate.

August 14, 2012 at 10:35 a.m.
mymy said...

Jack: Maybe they had half a brain once upon a time. That is in question as I have watched them over the decades. I leaned my lesson with Carter. I will never be part of putting a Dem in the WH again.

Now, I'm not say the Repubs are perfect either but.....Tea Party may have worke them up to some degree. Time will tell.

August 14, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
moonpie said...

lkeithlu said... I know very little about economics. It would be nice for once for the posters here to explain why supply side will work (conservatives) or won't work (liberals), using evidence to back them up. (rather than just bashing each other)


First, I'm not an economist but we do have further proof that supply side economics to not work.... proof we've never had before that was so clear.

We can always talk about other factors that came into play during previous experiences with trickled down economics.

But the simple fact is this: For the past three years, overall corporate profits have been hight. In fact, recently, they reached an all time high. Yet, even in the face of record profits, most of these corporations are not hiring.

This means they don't hire based on excess cash.

The Republicans seem to think companies hire based on excess cash. Recent developments say it's not that simple.

Opponents of trickle down economics frequently say that businesses expand labor forces in response to demand that other efficiencies cannot keep up with.

Look, I run a business. You give me 100,000 extra a year, I'm not hiring a new person... That money is going in the bank, to pay off debt, or if there is existing market share I don't have, I'll advertize more.... but this does not expand the overall demand... I just may get a higher share. On the other hand, you give me 100,000 more projects a year, now I have to hire more people.

You want to supply jobs? You want to create demand? Keep money in the pockets of those who are likely to spend it. This is the middle and lower class.

August 14, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

carlB,

No. I don't expect anyone to give up, just see more clearly. Most of what comes out of a politician's mouth does nothing to improve clarity. It has gotten to the point that we have come to accept bold faced lies and distortions as a normal and even expected part of politics. A representative government is doomed if the electors allow their votes to be steered with lies. We must demand honesty from government officials.

Some see the Republican lies. Some see the Democrat lies. The truth is that they are both more interested in power than the US Citizen. Our best hope this election cycle for bringing truth back to government was Ron Paul.

I don't trust Romney. I don't trust Ryan. They are both too invested in the corrupt system of government and have both shown that they lack consistency. How anyone can trust Obama is beyond me. He has proven that all he cares about is himself. His policies are designed to prop the economy up until the next election and will be paid for on the back of our children. He IS the incarnation of political evil. I care more about the world that my children will have to live in than the specific results in the short term. I understand that we have to go through the correction that has been held back by stimulus spending and monetizing debt. The correction will not be fun but it will be bearable. Once we are through it, and have essentially paid for our transgressions, our children will have a brighter future going forward.

August 14, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
dude_abides said...

"His (Texas A&M shooter's) list of "inspirational people" includes famed snipers Vasily Zaytsev and Carlos Hathcock, as well as noted firearms designers Eugene Stoner, Mikhail Kalashnikov, John Garand, Samuel Colt and John Browning."

Anyone wanna bet on his political leanings?

This is going to present a real problem for you fine folks on a regular basis. You had better start claiming Facebook is a left wing organization that edits their users profiles to fit their own politics. You know, your usual cure for whatever "Ailes" you.

August 14, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
moonpie said...

As for those who say Obama's policies have failed. Many of them have not been able to be implemented, so they didn't fail.

Our country was about to drive off a financial cliff. And it would have taken the world economy with it.

Obama's mistake was saying that he could hold jobs at a certain level. He should have been touting the calamity that would likely have unfolded had he not acted boldly.

The American economy was critically ill. It was circling the drain. It got stabilized on Obama's life support and is making a recovery. Now certain family members have said this treatment failed because recovery is slower than they want.

Meanwhile, those same family members are not cooperating with the medical advice from leading economists from the major investment banks -- guys who are pro business at the highest level -- who say: what we need to do is: reduce spending and raise taxes.

As the Debt Deal between Obama and Boehner unravelled, the one thing that is clear is that Obama was willing to work with the advice of these pro-market economisists and Boehner and the Republicans pulled out mainly because of the increased taxes.

Too bad.

August 14, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

moonpie said... Look, I run a business. You give me 100,000 extra a year, I'm not hiring a new person... That money is going in the bank, to pay off debt, or if there is existing market share I don't have, I'll advertize more.... but this does not expand the overall demand... I just may get a higher share. On the other hand, you give me 100,000 more projects a year, now I have to hire more people.

You want to supply jobs? You want to create demand? Keep money in the pockets of those who are likely to spend it. This is the middle and lower class.

Spot on Post! I don't own the business, but I help run it. I just had this conversation yesterday with an insurance agent. We would also take that $100,000 and pay off debt that we have incurred just to keep the doors open. We hire when we get the jobs to man.
Government is not the main intity holding down small businesses, it is insurance. The insurance industry has been allowed to regulate business in a way that is now dictating profit margins and expenses.

BigRidgePatriot said... carlB, Both political parties carry their share of blame. Until you recognize this and shed your party glasses you will just be deluding yourself.

So true, but I will place my wager with the one going closest to the way I want to go.

Jack_Dennis said... Paul Ryan was asked by a high-profile reporter "what evidence do you have for saying Pres. Obama's plan won't work?" He replied, "Math."

He replied "Math" because he really doesn't have anything else but the numbers. He has no business experience or knowledge and is merely a cronie. Of course he says "math". But dig deeper. The Ryan plan will kill people. Yes, kill people, like our elderly. Who do you think is getting that aid? Oh I forgot, you don't really know, and just repeat what you hear. Or maybe you want to be a part of a nation that doesn't give a crap about it's word, or taking care of our elderly. America is better than that and Ryan.

August 14, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

JustOneWoman: You're just spouting talking points out of Chicago. Ryan wants to SAVE the ship, not sink it. Kill the elderly? Who told you to say that? Totally irresponsible.

August 14, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Ryan wouldn't kill the elderly! He would simply take away the money for the care that would save them. We were warned by the republicans that Obama would have "death panels", now we see who would let grandma die of curable illnesses! LOL Bit you in the a$$, you rabid liars.

August 14, 2012 at 11:34 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Biden in VA: “With you, we can win North Carolina again”

Quite a weapon you lefties have......bwahahahaha

August 14, 2012 at 11:47 a.m.
librul said...

The rethugs had better be investing in flotation devices 'cus the Rmoney/Ryan ship is goin' down 'cus the old line rethug money men are goin' to pull the sump plug.

In a NYT Op-Ed piece, David Stockman sez: “Of the $1 trillion in so-called tax expenditures that the (Ryan) plan would attack, the vast majority would come from slashing popular tax breaks for employer-provided health insurance, mortgage interest, 401(k) accounts, state and local taxes, charitable giving and the like, not to mention low rates on capital gains and dividends. The crony capitalists of K Street already own more than enough Republican votes to stop that train before it leaves the station.”

August 14, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Call it drinking the kool-aid, guzzling the hooch, or chugging down the trickle-down, supply-side economics has never worked, even though we have given it ample time and opportunity to do so. But conservatives are so addicted to their neat-sounding little Friedman-esque theory that they can't stop drinking the stuff.

Ever since Reagan came on the scene and came up with his clever bumper-sticker philosophy of "government is not the solution...blah blah blah," we have given trickle-down plenty of opportunity to do its thing, but there has never been any trickling down. On the contrary we have had a massive gushing upward of wealth. From 1978 to 2011, CEO compensation has increased more than 725 percent, a rise far greater than stock market growth and the sluggish 5 - 6 percent growth in worker compensation over the same period. In 1978, CEOs took home 26 times more than the average worker. Today they make 206 times more than workers. Depending on what charts your refer to, the numbers will vary somewhat but not by much. Any way you slice it, dice it, or put it on a chart, the disparity between average worker pay and that of CEOs is huge, and their obscenely huge pay oftentimes has little or nothing to do with job performance or productivity.

As moonpie has already stated, just because the rich or the business owners have more money at their disposal, it doesn't mean they will use it to create more jobs. Their first instinct is to invest it. The only thing that will create more jobs is more demand, and the only way to generate more demand is for the average working person to have more money to spend. To even think of increased austerity as a means of stimulating the economy – or as a means of debt reduction, for that matter - is outright insanity. Austerity in times of austerity creates only more and worse austerity. It doesn't take a PhD in economics to realize that.

There is no perfect system – neither capitalism by itself nor socialism by itself. We had a fairly decent balance of both for approximately three decades, then the Gipper came along and brainwashed his fawning flock into believing that government is all evil all of the time. And his putrid, half-baked “philosophy” lingers to this day, with the hangers-on still drinking the trickle-down hooch

August 14, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"JustOneWoman: You're just spouting talking points out of Chicago. Ryan wants to SAVE the ship, not sink it. Kill the elderly? Who told you to say that? Totally irresponsible." - J_D

JD, you are the one spouting talking points. All you ever do is fire off one liners. I ask you to demonstrate to me in what ways supply side economics has worked. I want you to show me where all the trickle down to the middle class has occurred. I want you to show me how the huge disparity (between the super-rich and the average working person since the advent of "trickle-down" under Ron-boy) is all just made-up lies. Go for it. If you're something more than just a cheer-leading talking-points fool, here's your chance to shine.

August 14, 2012 at 12:22 p.m.
BobMKE said...

CNN's take on the Ryan Plan. Being a Ryan supporter I didn't want to use Fox Etc.

Moonpie, great post at 10;38a.m. I really believe that the business owners, coporations are sitting on their capitol and wait out the election. I believe if the R&R team wins then next year we will see the stock market go up and our unemployment rate go down.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2012/08/11/bash-ryan-budget-coach.cnn

August 14, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
carlB said...

BigRidgePatriot said... How anyone can trust Obama is beyond me. He has proven that all he cares about is himself. His policies are designed to prop the economy up until the next election and will be paid for on the back of our children. He IS the incarnation of political evil. I care more about the world that my children will have to live in than the specific results in the short term. I understand that we have to go through the correction that has been held back by stimulus spending and monetizing debt. The correction will not be fun but it will be bearable. Once we are through it, and have essentially paid for our transgressions, our children will have a brighter future going forward.

REPLY; I strongly disagree with your opinion about not trusting President Obama and that he only cares for himself. You certainly do not have any proof to back up your biased opinion. The Proof is that President Obama has done more to stabilize the effects of the 2007 deep recession over the obstructions by the Republicans. How about explaining the details of your "correction" sequence of events if Obama's stimulus recovery policy had not worked.

August 14, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Jack_Dennis said... JustOneWoman: You're just spouting talking points out of Chicago. Ryan wants to SAVE the ship, not sink it. Kill the elderly? Who told you to say that? Totally irresponsible.

I am spouting opinions out of my head. I have no idea what the talking points out of chicago are. But I will put my knowledge against yours dear Jack anyday. Look at the plan, then go talk to some people at East Ridge Retirement Center and just see how they will live. Ryan intends on saving the ship by dumping all the people. Gosh gee, why do we need a ship if not for the people? It is not a death panel, it is a fact.

You can call a rat a rabbit, but it doesn't change what it is.

August 14, 2012 at 12:40 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickroo: I don't need a chance to shine. I make my points, same as you. I simply choose not to post partisans links like your ilk. You've got a set bringing up talking points. Your side made them an art-form. Posting paragraph after paragraph of partisan BS is NOT contributing. Wise up, pal.

August 14, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.
carlB said...

moonpie said... As for those who say Obama's policies have failed. Many of them have not been able to be implemented, so they didn't fail.

Reply; moonpie, I agree with you! You are not supposed to make the voters aware of the Republicans' obstructions to cause Obama's failure.

August 14, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

BobMKE said...

........I really believe that the business owners, coporations are sitting on their capitol and wait out the election.

You may be right about some of the bigger companies, corps, etc. But small business doesn't have capital to sit on. Small business is the middle class. The main gist of the problem for small business is credit and money to do business. It is more profitable for the banks to hold their money in reserves than to lend. And that is controlled by the same people that will let the string go when they get what they want.

August 14, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
JustOneWoman said...

Jack_Dennis said... Rickroo: I don't need a chance to shine. I make my points, same as you. I simply choose not to post partisans links like your ilk. You've got a set bringing up talking points. Your side made them an art-form. Posting paragraph after paragraph of partisan BS is NOT contributing. Wise up, pal.

YOU BROUGHT UP TALKING POINTS! from Chicago. Can you not remember for more than a few minutes at a time?

August 14, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.
charivara said...

Ikeithlu, if you check the links that WWWTW suggested you’ll see they are to right wing think tanks and “free market” rags funded by billionaires to provide cover for what is essentially their raping of American workers and the destruction of the middle class. They are so good at concealing this reality through these propaganda outlets they have convinced many people who are not millionaires, and who will never be, that small government is good for them. By small government they mean government that cannot and will not control the excesses inherent in today’s vulture capitalism in which the wealth created by the many is enjoyed only by the few.

The hourly earnings of workers dropped by 8 percent from 1973 to 2005 while their productivity shot up 55 percent or more. Where has the wealth created by that productivity gone? To the top 1 percent which has doubled its share of our national income to 20 percent over the past two decades; it has almost tripled for the top 0.1 percent. If you believe that workers have no claim to share in the wealth they help create, by all means, vote Republican, their economic policies, not the free market place, have been responsible for the upward flow of wealth and they promise more of the same.

If you want to see what “small government” means, read some economic history of the United States circa 1865-1900 when there was no income tax, no regulations, no safety net. It was conservatives who fought these reforms tooth and nail and they are still at it, all the while wrapped in the flag and holding up the cross. Yes, this country is in serious trouble, voting Republican guarantees that it will only get worse.

August 14, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Any 6th-grader can balance a budget on paper. Ryan's plan is laughable. Let's say I am $50,000 in debt and in order to get out of debt I decide to drop my health insurance and home-owner's insurance, cut my food bill in half, and take my kids out of school. I could easily be out of debt in just a few years. But any idiot can see how stupid a plan that is. You cannot stop spending on essential services and life-lines that will affect the health and wellbeing of each and every family member because you will only create additional debt and a worse outcome in the future. The be-all and end-all is not just debt reduction but a balanced plan on how to get there sensibly while maintaining the health and wellbeing of the nation as a whole. The nation, AS A WHOLE. Do you get it, you Randian, trickle-down, me-centered conservatives? The country does not revolve around you and you alone. You have to take in the big picture. I know that's difficult for you to accept, but be big boys and girls and try to play nice with everybody else.

August 14, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rickaroo,

"I don't need a chance to shine. I make my points, same as you. I simply choose not to post partisans links like your ilk. You've got a set bringing up talking points. Your side made them an art-form. Posting paragraph after paragraph of partisan BS is NOT contributing. Wise up, pal."

Let me translate Jack's answer:

I don't have any evidence or proof that 'supply-side economics' would work. I simply choose not to post links because I can't find any that say 'voodoo economics' would get us out of this recession. I never contribute so I try to discredit everyone else that does. I hate evidence, proof, knowledge and truth. Blah, blah, blah, I'm a dirty tramp.

I think that sums it up.

August 14, 2012 at 1:02 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Supply, demand, wants, needs, all those are traceable to Maslow's hierarchy of needs we learn in freshman psychology. Find or create a need and fill it, that's how free enterprise works. As those basic needs are filled, we move up the "needs" ladder to the next rung. Put down that "Audacity of Hope" and pick up "Wealth of Nations", it's still applicable today.

August 14, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
mymy said...

A fool and his money will soon be parted.

The same can be said about the citizens of this county. A foolish choice based on class warfare policies of the left (Hate of the successful)(SHARED prosperity=wealth distribution)(conquer and divide) can soon part all of us from the country we once had and the opportunities it offered an individual. They want everyone sucking of the teat of government=full control of us. They say one thing and are doing another. Who wants that? Is it Only those born already attached to the teat from previous generations? I think yes plus a lot of other no goods who jumped of the easy path to avoid individual responsibility for themselves and their choices. How many of the lefties here fall into the category? We already have too much government interferences in our lives and both sides have failed in many ways taking care of the first priorities of government: protecting this country from the bad inside and from the outside. Too busy buying votes to stay in power and stroke their big egos! Many have become the bad inside.

This is a critical election for this country: survive or fail like many others that have taken the wrong path. We are on a death spiral speeded up with this Administration now. Time to give the other side another chance to prove themselves. Why delay the hard times turning this country around. It will be worse or impossible with 4 more years of Obama policies.

84 day to go!

It would be interesting to know how many that earn their living selling Obama and company will not vote for him?

August 14, 2012 at 1:07 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

JustOneWoman: You're getting as vicious as the rest of the leftists on this board.

Rickyroo said "Anybody can balance a budget on paper...." I haven't seen one from the Messiah.

August 14, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
Easy123 said...

mymy,

Why do you never give specifics when you rant? It's always vague rhetoric and talking points. Do you realize that you are offered the same programs and services as everyone else? If you want food stamps, just be really poor. If you want welfare, just be poor. If you want Medicaid, JUST BE POOR.

Obama hasn't created class warfare. It's already here. And it's championed by the Republicans. You and your ilk hate the poor. You hate that government money goes to help them. And that is truly a shame. You would rather pad the pockets of people like Mitt Romney and Sheldon Adelson than even consider the notion that our government should offer these services and programs to the poorest among us. Unless you are ultra-wealthy, you are closer to the people on food stamps than you are to being worth $200 million.

If you don't want government "intrusion" in your life, move to Somalia or Venezuela. Or maybe you can accept the fact that taxes are necessary to keep our country running. Accept that you get things by paying your taxes such as: a military, police force, fire fighters, schools, hospitals, roads, dams, bridges, and the list goes on and on.

Unlike you, I am appreciative of our government and the great things I get just because I live in a country that cares about it's citizens, EVEN THE POOREST ONES! Call it sucking on the government teat or whatever. But the government teat has been there for you since day one. And you have been suckling on it whether you believe it or not.

August 14, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

JD, there is nothing "partisan" about the statistics I have cited. They are neither liberal nor conservative in nature. They are simply statistics...facts...irrefutable data. It is a FACT that we have a huge income disparity between the CEOs/super-rich and the middle class/average working person. You might find charts that vary according to the actual numbers but no matter what numbers you come up with, the disparity is huge. If trickle-down worked, we would have seen a much greater rise in workers' earnings and overall wealth over the years, but instead they have pretty much flat-lined, while the super-rich have continued to amass more and more wealth, even when the economy is bad.

All I asked you to do was to prove me wrong. But all you could come up with is, "I don't need a chance to shine. I make my points, same as you." Yeah, right.I've had enough of you and the other rabid righties' nonsense for one day. I have other things to do. I will leave you to sit here on your duff all day, as you always do, and "make (your) points."

August 14, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
mymy said...

Easy: As usual you are full of Stuff! You just keep sucking on the teat till it runs dry. Then what ya gona do?

August 14, 2012 at 1:34 p.m.
Easy123 said...

mymy,

As usual, you have no rebuttal. Keep being ignorant while you reap all the benefits our government has provided to you. :-)

August 14, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
tderng said...

justonewoman....The people at the East Ridge Retirement Center,'s lives will not change one bit.If you are 55 or older or are already disabled your life won't change one whit.However,if there is no overhaul of some sort,some changes made,NO ONE WILL HAVE ANYTHING TO FALL BACK ON! The system will be broke,out of money,insolvent.Do not fall for the lies.At least the republicans have a plan,what is the plan from the democrats?I haven't heard of one,although there may be one out there.If so,I would think the Dems would be touting it.I hear only crickets when they are asked this question,or only "but this republican plan will kill the old people.Horse hockey,the elderly will see NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.The Republicans are not "planning to throw grandma off a cliff",but the democrats ARE planning to throw everyone off the cliff by fighting ANY reform that might keep the program solvent.They instead are going after the young and middle aged and planning to toss em off when THEY get to a retirement age.So please tell me what the Democratic plan to save medicare/medicaid/disability is.

August 14, 2012 at 1:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

"At least the republicans have a plan,what is the plan from the democrats?I haven't heard of one,although there may be one out there.If so,I would think the Dems would be touting it.I hear only crickets when they are asked this question"

"So please tell me what the Democratic plan to save medicare/medicaid/disability is."

The Democrats have had a plan for a while now. It's called "Obamacare". More specifically Title III of The Affordable Care Act.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/13/the-white-houses-medicare-plan-isnt-that-hard-to-find/

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/

Would you like to try again? You might want to do some research before you start another diatribe.

August 14, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.

Voters are stupid, greedy, lazy, short-sighted, self-centered, and self-righteous. This is true across party lines, socio-economic groups, and almost every other demographic.

Presidents and candidates for president make easy targets for either (1) blaming all your woes or (2) hoping that a political messiah has appeared to set right everything that has gone wrong. When they fail to deliver utopia in the first two years of their first term, voters select the opposing party in the mid-term election, often changing control of one or both houses of Congress (to the opposition party). While we whine that we hate partisanship and polarization, history shows that, out of disappointment that our political whores don’t improve our beleaguered condition fast enough, we actually ARE willing to put up with divided government. There is some merit to the argument that one party ruling two (or all three) branches of government for very long invites corruption and unresponsiveness to voters, but you could also observe that frequent changes in party control means that enduring change will come very slowly, if at all, and that dysfunctional, pandering political behavior (amassing an enormous national debt) will not end with any one or two election cycles.

That said, you would be correct to observe that current leaders in both political appear too weak-kneed and self-serving to stick to their guns and implement responsible changes to their taxing and spending habits. However, if you cynically conclude that there are ABSOLUTELY no differences between the two parties or candidates, or that the national economy is the only issue worthy of consideration, then it won’t just be the politicians who are the problem. You, too, deserve blame.

Voters are stupid, greedy, lazy, short-sighted, self-centered, and self-righteous. This explains why our elected officials display similar characteristics. (We are what’s wrong with the world.) Don’t be too lazy to do enough math or study enough history to understand what the differences are. Stop hoping for political messiahs and pouting when you can’t find one. Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. And don’t expect to get everything you wanted.

August 14, 2012 at 1:59 p.m.
limric said...

Those still believing Romney’s supply side/trickle-down economics are a viable plan for the country are the same idiots who still think Saddam had WMDs?

"The wealth and income of the top 1 percent grows at the expense of everyone else.” "Money breeds power, and power breeds more money. It is a truly vicious cycle." From Peter Edelman’s book So Rich, So Poor.

With the Ryan nomination, Republicans don’t need to hide their contempt for the middle class anymore. Ryan is the defacto comandante in the right wings class warfare; and as obvious as a drive in movie theater showing porn. They are betting that 70% of the people are oblivious to everything, the remaining voters are obtuse rubes plus a dollop of Obama hatred will win the day.

"Listen to the anguished cries of partisans on either side of the election divide and you would think this was a battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. You would think voting in the rigged political theater of the corporate state actually makes a difference. The charade of junk politics is there not to offer a choice but to divert the crowd while our corporate masters move relentlessly forward, unimpeded by either party, to turn all dissent into a crime." :Chris Hedges

And if not, they win anyway, since Obama and the rest of the poltroons in the Democratic Party will, in the end, either cave in as usual or simply borrow any fascist idea the Republicans pull from their slimy corporate cauldron, add a little sweet ‘help the poor syrup’ - to mask the toilet bowel aftertaste, and then present it as a hope and change policy alternative.

Chris Hedges is right.

August 14, 2012 at 2:07 p.m.
acerigger said...

The next time somebody tells you that Pres. Obama is destroying the economy,remind them that the stock market,as well as corporate profits are at an all-time high.

When they tell you that hasn't helped THEM,remind them that they've just admitted that trickle-down economics doesn't work. (whiskey and the morning after blog)

August 14, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.

BTW, who controlled Congress (and thus the banking committees), in 2007-08?

P.S. There is only one alternative that can avoid both political cynicism and trust in political messiahs. And it's not Gentleman Jack.

Hint: It’s an IN-THIS-WORLD-BUT-NOT-OF-THIS-WORLD alternative.

August 14, 2012 at 2:29 p.m.
limric said...

You’re pretty close Easy123, but I offer a couple of revisions.

If you want food stamps, just be really poor. Revise to: just be really poor and JP Morgan Chase. (JP Morgan Chase makes quite a profit with food stamp swipe cards, and even MORE money when MORE people are forced to use food stamps swipe cards)

If you want welfare, just be poor. Revise to: If you want welfare, just be a multinational.

If you want Medicaid, JUST BE POOR. Revise to: If you want Medicaid, Just be Wal Mart.

August 14, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

When I think of Joe Biden, I pray for The Anointed One's health.

August 14, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.
mtngrl said...

Get your facts straight Jack, President Obama was actually elected. It was G W Bush that was "annointed"

August 14, 2012 at 2:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Girl, No BHO was anointed by the MSM long before he was elected. In fact, without them, I doubt he would have been elected. Just another pretty face with absolutely no creds.

August 14, 2012 at 3:01 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Charivara said:

The hourly earnings of workers dropped by 8 percent from 1973 to 2005 while their productivity shot up 55 percent or more. Where has the wealth created by that productivity gone? To the top 1 percent which has doubled its share of our national income to 20 percent over the past two decades; it has almost tripled for the top 0.1 percent.

I've seen similar stats from another poster earlier. Is there anyone who sides with supply side who can explain these numbers for my ejumacation?

August 14, 2012 at 3:05 p.m.
dude_abides said...

"Hint: It’s an IN-THIS-WORLD-BUT-NOT-OF-THIS-WORLD alternative." ----WWWTW

I know Jesus is of this world, and your disdain for messiahs is evident, so... are you suggesting we all worship SATAN?

August 14, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
miraweb said...

Supply side only works if you can believe that the wealthy really want to "trickle down" money by either hiring more and paying more to employees or by paying more in taxes.

If you can't believe those two things, you don't believe in supply side economics.

Our "trickle up" economics come from mafia-like corruption of regulators by banks tapping not only the private cash sources but any poorly guarded public ones as well.

Fannie Mae (really, the bankers best friend) had to borrow $190 billion before it decided this spring to avoid rewriting mortgages.

Fannie Mae is now the source of the "redlining" threat to local towns and cities that have had enough and want to exercise their eminent domain rights to start rebuilding their neighborhoods. Fannie and Freddie are taking comments until Sept 7 before starting this new rule.

(And yes - for any Brits, we really do call out chief mortgage entity Fannie. Google it.)

I don't think the courts will support Fannie Mae, but it will take a year or two to get a ruling. In the meanwhile, no recovery.

The money the government paid to rescue the holders of bad derivitive bets didn't disappear into space. It flowed quite handsomely into Goldman Sachs and into hedge funds.

Ben Franklin got it right: "Some of the greatest rogues I ever was acquainted with were the richest rogues."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-08/fannie-regulator-may-seek-to-block-eminent-domain-seizures-1-.html

August 14, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
BobMKE said...

I am an individual so I believe in individual rights. I do not believe in collectivism because every group is made up of …individuals. We can form groups, but to be moral, these groups need to be formed voluntarily. If it is wrong for me, as an individual to put a gun to your head and demand your money to help other people, then why isn’t it wrong to have millions others join me, then claim the act is justifiable? There are only three ways you get something; 1. You work and get paid and you buy it. 2. Someone gives it to you. 3. You steal it or let the government do it for you. I am still a sovereign individual with rights! I get this; collectivists just don’t get this no matter how hard anyone tries to convince them. The vast majority of individuals think it is just great to help out their fellow human beings. We just want to do it voluntarily. Collectivists think it is just fine to coerce help out of others. Until individualists are back in control of the United States as they were at the start, we will have socialism. Collectivism has always failed in the end because they run out of other people’s money. How did people survive before LBJ’s “Great Society? ” Since then, where is the pride in working to better yourself and the lives of your family? Are poor people better off getting a “hand up” from their neighbors rather than a “handout” from the government? Today it is harder to break out of the cycle of poverty now the lure of the government dole is there. There will always be societal problems. There will always be people having things better than others, either through working harder, working longer hours, advancing your education, investing your capital in a business, which might fail, It is what it is. There will never be a utopian society and there are people on this post site and others throughout the Country that we will just never convinced of the dangers of collectivism and socialism. They love the idea of “leveling the playing field.” = Stealing your money by force of the government. Yes we all have to pay taxes to the government to do the things we can’t do. This next election will be the defining moment in our history. We are at that fork in the road. The path to socialism/collectivism Etc. or the path to getting back to the basics of our Constitution, individual freedom, individual responsibility, and voluntary, rather than coerced cooperation.

August 14, 2012 at 3:56 p.m.
mtngrl said...

Jack_Dennis said... "Girl, No BHO was anointed by the MSM long before he was elected. In fact, without them, I doubt he would have been elected..."

Wrong again Jack, if any of that was true they would have anointed Hillary

August 14, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
tderng said...

easy123...yeah after cutting over 600 billion from medicare.I guess I'll have to go on Obamacare and hope the unelected "administrators" let me have the tests and medicine I need.If there are anywhere enough doctors left practicing.

August 14, 2012 at 4:08 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

No girl, Hillary WAS the darling until His Holiness appeared on the scene. (straight from community organizing.) Dreadful credentials, btw.

August 14, 2012 at 4:25 p.m.
mtngrl said...

Wrong again Jack, they were on the scene together during the primaries and Hillary was being pushed the whole time.

and speaking of credentials, what does Romney have that he is actually willing to run on? He does not want to talk about Bain or his record as Governor, and heaven forbid he speak of his own RomneyCare... whats left?

Even his "pro-life" stance has been put down by none other than the National Catholic Reporter,an independent news source, where civil and canon attorney and Duquesne School of Law Professor Nicholas Cafardi deems President Obama the most pro-life candidate in the 2012 Presidential election. Sorry Romney supporters.

http://ncronline.org/news/politics/which-presidential-candidate-truly-pro-life

August 14, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
fairmon said...

carlB said.....

The voters with be smarter by November 6, 2012 and realize who has been lying to them.

Do you really think so? Is it possible the best liar will be the one elected? The one that can best smear the other without ever truthfully addressing the issues? Voters have a severe case of ADD so the election is a contest of slogans and short feel good sound bites. I have a hard time understanding what Obama did that was so good for the economy or specifically what he is proposing to attain the necessary growth. How does he plan to provide medicare and/or medicaid for the number under age 55 when at some point there will be only three workers for each recipient? I don't suggest Romney and Ryan are the best answer but in my opinion Obama is a bungling economic idiot that is owned by unions and big banks/brokers. I hear the roar of the cannon when he speaks but I have not seen a hole in the target.

August 14, 2012 at 4:36 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Girl: Obama the most pro-life candidate! Now that's a hoot.

August 14, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Can anyone explain about the disparity? Jobs not created and yet large wealth amassed by upper management? Is it that supply side has not been implemented properly? Or is the theory itself flawed? Why has the middle class diminished while the top 1% expanded its wealth? Is it a flaw in how the middle class has managed (or not) its wealth during the last 30 years? Or has technology eliminated a large number of jobs? I have always heard that the wealth disparity is growing, but have not heard any explanation as to why this may have happened.

August 14, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
joneses said...

FINALLY SOMEONE ASKED HUSSEIN OBAMA THE QUESTION!

ON "ABC-TV" DURING THE "NETWORK SPECIAL ON HEALTH CARE".... OBAMA WAS ASKED:

"MR. PRESIDENT WILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GIVE UP YOUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE PROGRAM AND JOIN THE NEW 'UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM' THAT THE REST OF US WILL BE ON ????" THERE WAS A STONEY SILENCE AS OBAMA IGNORED THE QUESTION AND CHOSE NOT TO ANSWER IT !!! IN ADDITION, A NUMBER OF SENATORS WERE ASKED THE SAME QUESTION AND THEIR RESPONSE WAS."WE WILL THINK ABOUT IT." AND THEY DID. IT WAS ANNOUNCED TODAY ON THE NEWS THAT THE "KENNEDY HEALTH CARE BILL" WAS WRITTEN INTO THE NEW HEALTH CARE REFORM INITIATIVE ENSURING THAT THAT CONGRESS WILL BE 100% EXEMPT ! SO, THIS GREAT NEW HEALTH CARE PLAN THAT IS GOOD FOR YOU AND ME... IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA, HIS FAMILY OR CONGRESS...??

August 14, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

joneses: How dare a member of the media throw him a heater?

August 14, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.

Makes you wonder whether or not there's a designated driver.

But it seems the right-wingers here think that their way still works.

Despite failures during Reagan and both Bush's.

When you keep going back to what hurt you in the first place, that's a sign of something.

August 14, 2012 at 6:35 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Joneses,

You're a liar. And Jack_Dennis bought it.

Your Right-wing Propaganda has already been debunked... in 2009. Can't you find any new B.S. to spew?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/network.asp

August 14, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

The "sovereign citizen" argument is an interesting one - thought it has some attachments to movements that are far less interesting and, in some cases, frankly crazy.

The people to watch for are those who believe that just because they are the kings (or queens) of their castles, they must own the whole neighborhood.

If you join a baseball team, you agree to the team rules. You have the right to try and get the team back on track if it wanders off into the woods. You can always quit the team.

A democracy is by its nature a "team sport". In democracy, you do, quite voluntarily, hand over some of your sovereignty in exchange for the ability to play in the game.

Of course, we don't have a true democracy, we have a representational republic. I do agree there many questions as to whether the elected representatives are keeping up their end of the bargain.

If you are over 18 in America, you agree to the rules of the team when you buy or rent a home in a community. The community agrees to honor your contracts, pave your roads, purify your water, and educate your children.

By being there, you agree to pay your property taxes, mow your lawn, and get your dog to stop barking in the middle of the night.

If you decide not to the community will, eventually, "kick you off the team."

If you really want to take your ball and go home, you can always buy an island somewhere and declare yourself Lord High Monarch of the beach. But as soon as your spouse and kids show up, you will have a community to deal with.

Collective is a loaded word used in 1950s style commie baiting and really has little to do with communities or individual rights and responsibilities.

August 14, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Please forgive me if this has been posted previously, but OMG! Of particular interest are the statements made by Fox News personalities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQwrB1vu74c&feature=related

August 14, 2012 at 7:20 p.m.
dude_abides said...

The crazed gut nut who allegedly killed a county constable and another person in a shooting near Texas A&M University on Monday was a "ticking time bomb" that was ready to blow, his family said. "He was crazy as hell," Richard Weaver, gunman Thomas Caffall's stepfather, told Houston station KPRC television. "At one point, we were afraid that he was going to come up here and do something to his mother and me," Weaver said. Shawn Kemp, a local acquaintance of Caffall’s, told The Eagle newspaper that he “fits the profile of a dude (no relation) who might snap.” Caffall seemed depressed and often talked about guns and war, Kemp told the newspaper.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-a-m-shooting-family-shooter-thomas-caffall-a-ticking-time-bomb-article-1.1135883#ixzz23ZDbK6dV

August 14, 2012 at 7:45 p.m.
joneses said...

We Need to Keep Our Eyes Open, folks...Obama has more tricks than you can shake a stick at!

IS THIS THE COUNTRY OF THE PEOPLE ???

WHO IS BROOKFIELD PROPERTIES?

You can't make this stuff up.

Read the NY Times Oct 13, 2011 to verify ownership etc.

I didn't really understand all this Occupy Wall Street protesting but it is getting clearer now...

Do you know the park in NYC that the Wall Street protesters are occupying? It's Zuccotti Park . Did you know this park is not owned by the city of New York ?

It is owned by Brookfield Properties.

Brookfield Asset Management received an Obama Department of Energy Loan guarantee of over $160 million within 10 days of approving the take over of the Park.

Brookfield is a Canadian company with assets of 70 billion. Google it!

It is all on their website-

And Why is the US Taxpayer guaranteeing a loan to a VERY wealthy Canadian company?!?!

Who was just hired by Brookfield Properties as an attorney?

Vice President Joe Biden's son.

And Who sits on the board of Brookfield Properties? Mayor Bloomberg's live in girlfriend.

Now, guess what company just received some of the last of the Obama Stimulus $$$$$$$? Thaaaaaaaaaaaat's right... Brookfield Properties.

Isn't life great in America !

Now, guess what? On a completely unrelated note, Wisconsin is shaping up to be the swing state in the 2012 presidential elections. Not Florida . Not Ohio . But Wisconsin .

Now, guess who owns the company that will be tabulating the electronic votes in Wisconsin ?

Thaaaaaaaaaaaat's right, the biggest contributor to Obama, the puppeteer

George Soros.

August 14, 2012 at 8:56 p.m.
mymy said...

To the lefty Airheads:

Cavuto: National debt is the 'issue of our time'

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1785471685001/

August 14, 2012 at 9:45 p.m.

dude_abides said... I know Jesus is of this world, and your disdain for messiahs is evident, so... are you suggesting we all worship SATAN?

We’ll have to agree to disagree (for now) about whether or not Jesus is “of” this world. (i.e. whether or not He was God incarnate) But the influence of Jesus (the true Messiah) has proven to be the most effective long-term remedy for the rule of political tyrants (would-be messiahs). His influence is the only viable alternative to them. That’s why whenever Christ’s way is faithfully followed, unjust political regimes, trembling, attempt to crush those followers, only to then be overwhelmed (and possibly converted) by the martyrs’ suffering and blood. My disdain is for the ubiquitous political messiah-want-to-be’s.

“Put not your trust in princes …” advised the psalmist. (http://www.esvbible.org/Psalm+146/) Excellent advice, even for pagans.

August 14, 2012 at 9:47 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

It's time for voters to seriously consider the fact that Joe Biden is totally inept. Should scare you if you think about it.

August 14, 2012 at 10:02 p.m.
alprova said...

Joneses, nothing was announced "today" in regard to Congress and the President being exempted from Obamacare.

Your entire post you copy and pasted can be read at the following link, which was dated August 19, 2009;

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/a-question-not-ignored/

Congress and the President, as well as all other Federal employees are not exempt from the insurance pooling requirements that are contained in Obamacare. In fact, on January 1, 2014, every Federal employee will not be offered anything but choices for coverage outlined in the Affordable Health Care Act.

Your attempt to offer misinformation about the President and Obamacare is totally pathetic.

When are you going to learn that whenever you dump garbage into his room that smells to high heaven, there will always be someone ready to clean it up?

August 14, 2012 at 10:06 p.m.
mymy said...

Joe Biden is the crazy brother in the attic. Another big boo boo bomb escapes his mouth using keys words to the choir:

http://nation.foxnews.com/joe-biden/2012/08/14/biden-theyre-going-put-yall-back-chains

August 14, 2012 at 10:09 p.m.
mymy said...

Big Sis and her Gal Pal:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/14/more-dhs-employees-come-forward-with-accounts-lewd-conduct-in-wake-suit/

This is what is going on in Homeland Security=sure makes me feel safe. How about you airheads?

August 14, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote at 8:56 pm: "IS THIS THE COUNTRY OF THE PEOPLE ???"

"WHO IS BROOKFIELD PROPERTIES?"

"You can't make this stuff up."

Clearly, you are not smart enough to make "this stuff" up, but you are smart enough to copy and paste more previously debunked garbage.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/zucotti.asp

August 14, 2012 at 10:32 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Alpo, the Sultan of cutNpaste...you should be the last one complaining about it.

August 14, 2012 at 11 p.m.
Easy123 said...

JackTroll,

Work on your reading comprehension. It's not the copy and pasting. It's the constant copy and pasting of "previously debunked garbage".

Come on, old timer. Take your Geritol BEFORE you post.

August 14, 2012 at 11:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy: Nice contribution.

August 14, 2012 at 11:14 p.m.

BobMKE said... There are only three ways you get something; 1. You work and get paid and you buy it. 2. Someone gives it to you. 3. You steal it or let the government do it for you.

Um. How about: you can also create or produce something. That’s the essence of capitalism. You can create wealth using your existing material resources as well as your non-material/human/social resources.

I definitely agree that collectivism/statism is the way of coercion, and that it always turns out to be bad for everybody except the politically powerful. However, you also said …

I am still a sovereign individual with rights! … Until individualists are back in control of the United States as they were at the start, we will have socialism.

We certainly have individual human rights, and they include a right to voluntarily associate and assemble, to freedom of conscience, to the fruits of our labor, etc. But you take it too far if you imagine that we fundamentally exist as individuals. This is where the modern libertarians and Enlightenment rationalists part ways with America’s founders. The boys in Philadelphia and Boston, being of Puritan lineage, knew that we are also “a people,” a body politic, and, unless we immigrate, we don’t, as individuals, choose the particular political entity or system of which we are part. We’re born into it. Ditto for the family to which we belong, the community of our upbringing, and most of our schooling. We’re born into communities or groups, and, as humans, we only flourish as we are faithful, not just to ourselves, but to the people around us, many or most of whom, even in adulthood, we did not choose (neighbors, co-workers, etc.).

Didn’t mean to get too philosophical, but this misunderstanding of political liberty is killing us when we try to live it out. It’s partly responsible for many of our society’s dysfunctions. Yes, we are responsible for our individual choices, and part of the reason for our over-dependence on government (coercively obtained) largesse, is our lack of individual initiative and failure to accept personal responsibility. I’m with you that far. But humans are never successful at being individualists. We’re not wired that way. We are responsible (to God) for one another – for the people around us. It just seems like if we took that more seriously, people wouldn’t look as much to the state for help that the state cannot efficiently provide. I think you’re with me on much of this. I may be straining on a gnat, but the individualism of libertarians is just as utopian as the socialists’ dream of equal outcomes via wealth re-distribution.

Which brings me to lkeithlu, who asked Can anyone explain about the disparity?

I won’t do it justice at this hour, so I’ll offer a rain check till tomorrow.

August 14, 2012 at 11:17 p.m.

Miraweb, I just (belatedly) saw your “sovereign citizen” refutation. Right on. Yours is much clearer than mine. I would only add that civil government is not the only, and not even the primary, communal institution responsible for caring for needs in the community. Tocqueville and others spoke of civil society (as distinguished from civil government). Voluntary associations or intermediary institutions – families, churches, non-profit charities, community clubs, professional societies, etc. – are best equipped to provide most social services. As for public works, law enforcement, national defense – Hey, state: it’s all yours. Civil society is the middle ground where both individualists and collectivists can abandon their utopian dreams.

August 14, 2012 at 11:17 p.m.
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