The Marriage

Easy & RickyRoo?

Am I Liberty or Justice?

We already know you're Stupid.

As long as EASY123 & RickyRoo keep their feet on their own side of the restroom stall, all will remain good in this world...

Notice that JD's instinct is to think of liberals when it comes to liberty and justice. Conservatives realize that those are concepts that are foreign to themselves. The only type of liberty and justice they know is the liberty to indulge in greed and the justice that exists for the wealthy.

MasterBlaster,

What are you going to do about it? LMFAO!

Bennett is delusional. Not only are liberal stupid but they are also mentally ill. The left is so sick this is how they see themselves. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Is it Justice to steal more money from a group who already pays 70% of the taxes in this country? Is it justice to have a government who prefers one race over another? Is it justice for small business people to be vilified when they are paying the vast majority of the taxes in this country?

As far as liberty goes, Liberals don't even know what the word means. They are In favor of taking away liberty after liberty for the individual and giving it over to the group. They are for country full of tribes to basically steal from one another. They are for government control in all aspects of life. You name it OSHA, EPA health care etc. etc., Control control control.

I don't like government spending much but I would be in favor of funding for a cure for liberalism. That would Be a great investment to save us a lot of tax money over the next few years.

I don't agree with abortions nor same-gender marriage, but that's not my call. The SCOTUS has already ruled on the first that women have more authority over their own bodies than the government. The second ruling is pending. Whatever the outcome, that's the prize or price, depending on one's viewpoint, of living in this country.

Take it easy timbo. 5:35 in the morning and you're about to blow a fuse. Maybe you should switch to de-caf. Or have you been up all night hitting thr jug! Chill man.

Clay Bennett posted ANOTHER cartoon!? I must make sure every knows MY opinion, whether it be about the subject at hand or not!

Hambone.....I guess you didn't read the posts before mine.

Sexual perverts want legal protection for having sex with people of the same sex. Furthermore they want their views taught in the schools and promoted over the airwaves.

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 18:22

Anytime the answer to a question is "God" or "God said" I know they're anti-freedom, anti-free thought, and intellectual wastrels.

As Christopher Hitchens said, "If you gave [Jerry] Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox."

Same for the other uber-religious fanatics of orthodoxy.

Why are those opposed not willing to stop all the discrimination against those electing to not be married? The incentive for gays wanting to be married is not a starry eyed love but the financial advantage given to those married at the expense of those electing not to be. The attitude of by golly if you elect not to be married and live the way we think you should we will punish you for that and make you pay more taxes and have more expenses than those that do. You want a house full of kids, go for it, but why should I help pay to educate them and assist you with all the other expense of having kids?

A clue is in the tax book headings of married, single, head of household and the discrimination when comparing the rates at each income level. The only justification is to dictate morals based on beliefs, certainly not justice, liberty or fairness.

Timbo wrote: "Bennett is delusional."

No Sir...you are.

"Not only are liberal stupid but they are also mentally ill."

That opinion is of no consequence.

"The left is so sick this is how they see themselves."

Oh brother....

"Nothing could be farther from the truth."

Whose truth...yours? Since when have you been granted with dictatorial powers to determine what is true or not?

"Is it Justice to steal more money from a group who already pays 70% of the taxes in this country?"

Asking a little more in taxes from those at the top is not going to affect their lifestyle in the slightest.

"Is it justice to have a government who prefers one race over another?"

Would you care to explain what you mean by that statement?

"Is it justice for small business people to be vilified when they are paying the vast majority of the taxes in this country?"

You live in a country where you are not only allowed to prosper, but to prosper are much as you so desire, and all some of you can do is beotch, beotch, beotch...

"As far as liberty goes, Liberals don't even know what the word means. They are In favor of taking away liberty after liberty for the individual and giving it over to the group."

Hogwash...

"They are for country full of tribes to basically steal from one another."

Huh?

"They are for government control in all aspects of life."

And conservatives are not? Talk about delusion.

"You name it OSHA, EPA health care etc. etc., Control control control."

Let's see...if it were left up to some people, a person injured or killed on their job would be swept aside and replaced with a warm body, our air would be so thick with pollution that you couldn't cut it with a knife, our water sources would be nothing but pure poison, and if someone were to become sick who couldn't pay for treatment, the only option open to them should consist of just simply pray for God's divine intervention or for the money needed to fall from the sky.

"I don't like government spending much but I would be in favor of funding for a cure for liberalism. That would Be a great investment to save us a lot of tax money over the next few years."

Well guess what you whimsical d!ck head...you share this land with 320 million other people and what you "are for" is quite meaningless when it is all said and done.

Your convoluted sense of truth and wisdom will never come to pass, you're woefully out-voted, so sit there and blow a gasket for all I care, but keep writing those checks to the IRS as a good patriot should.

Or...you can catch a flight to the nation of your choice and see if you will have it any better somewhere else.

Good luck with that!!

^^^^^ALPO^^^^^ maybe your worst offering ever.

Come on jack,you are better than that!

I almost NEVER agree w/alprova and don't really understand why he has to comment on blather like timbo just posted BUT This IS NOT his worst offering BY FAR!! Actually it was almost spot on!!

To conservative: You call homosexuals sexual perverts that want legal protection? I love some heterosexual men call Gays perverts but the first underage girl that walks by with a developed body they stare at and fantasize about, yeah those are perverts not the gays who are adults and want to be married. Then you put a Bible verse! Let's talk sexual ethics.. Bible style. Did you not know Adam and Eve had two boys? no girls. How did they procreate? I guess one of the boys had to have sex with Eve since she was the only female. What about Abraham? He married Sarah and then she had the slave go and be his mistress openly, wouldnt this be considered fornication? Or what about David who took another mans wife and then had the man sent to battle to be killed. Or what about the slave who was rapped and then cut into pieces for being rapped because it was thought she was ruined for future men. Or what about the woman who was caught in adultery and who was going to be killed by stoning, but someone named Jesus came and said, "He who has no sin cast the first stone". Also if you wanna play old testament scriptures you are not suppose to eat pork or shellfish.. do you eat these foods conservative? Evidently you are perfect conservative, right? I love this cartoon! Can you imagine... Justice and Liberty FOR ALL? Not just for some groups or heterosexual individuals. Maybe for once us GAYS can be equal in having all rights. We pay taxes, live in these communities, work in these communities, and die in these communities, is it too much to ask for us to be allowed to be married and have the same legal protection concerning inheritance rights like others?

Well, Jesse. I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

I shoulda known it!! Eatsrainbows?? Well now i have heard it called just about everything!

AND before you get started i'm FOR gay rights!

It's their mouth,they can haul coal in for all i care!

THIS WILL GET SOME FEEDBACK!PERIOT!

Conservative,

"Sexual perverts want legal protection for having sex with children of the same sex. Furthermore they want their views taught in the schools and promoted over the airwaves."

I changed one word and this statement now accurately describes the Catholic Church.

LMAO!

Ignorance and bigotry!

conservative said..."Sexual perverts want legal protection for having sex with people of the same sex. Furthermore they want their views taught in the schools and promoted over the airwaves."

Gay and lesbian couples would like the same civil rights that our society extends to heterosexual couples, based on their decision to enter into a binding agreement that is legally recognized by the state. If you are opposed to "gay marriage", I'd suggest that, rather than challenging a re-definition of marriage, you challenge the notion that the state should grant special benefits to people who are married.

The notion that gays and lesbians want their views taught in schools and promoted over the airwaves is a figment of your imagination. All they are asking for is the liberty and justice that is supposed to be a promise that our country fulfills for every citizen.

Harp has a point about tax equality, single, married, kids. I get it.

Alprova got timboo exactly right.

Sexual perverts?? The studies i've read on sexual perversion is its more likely to be married men with children. Also have read Lev. "unfreaking real," those people would have layed with any thing. Had nothing to do with Homosexuality. Young girls and boys at beck and call, slaves, 10 wives club, cut the balls off a boy to make him the "tribes" "MEN" sex slave for life. This is all through the Old Testament. Its enough to make any thinking person sick with disgust,disbelief and reject at hand.

Thanks be to the Universe,"Brains" have EVOLVED!!!

hears a link for ya!http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexual_Agenda

Give ya a new perpective on whats goin down!

NOT sayin they are right BUT somthin to think about!

MTJohn said....

If you are opposed to "gay marriage", I'd suggest that, rather than challenging a re-definition of marriage, you challenge the notion that the state should grant special benefits to people who are married.

I agree but silence is about all you can expect when those opposing or supporting gay marriage are challenged to justify the discrimination in the system favoring marriage.

Jessee you are a dumb ass hick.

Agenda, really??? How about getting to be who you were born to be??

wow, now POTCAT getting on with the name calling!!

potcat said...

Sexual perverts?? The studies i've read on sexual perversion is its more likely to be married men with children. Also have read Lev. "unfreaking real," those people would have layed with any thing. Had nothing to do with Homosexuality. Young girls and boys at beck and call, slaves, 10 wives club, cut the balls off a boy to make him the "tribes" "MEN" sex slave for life. This is all through the Old Testament. Its enough to make any thinking person sick with disgust,disbelief and reject at hand.

Thanks potcat, I am sure most get the discrimination against singles but will never admit it since the can't justify it. Parts of the bible could be classified as soft pornography with the references to deviate behavior. Parts would be rated for adults only when wars, killings and destruction are described and in some cases glorified.

potcat,

"Jessee you are a dumb ass hick."

Truer words have never been spoken.

Troll_Dennis,

Sanctimonious whiner.

jesse said..."hears a link for ya!...NOT sayin they are right BUT somthin to think about!"

It would be something to think about if it fact-checked. It doesn't.

WOW' i done went and got in POTCATS as and didn't even realize it!

OH WELL /w/the level of intellect around here i ain't gonna lose no sleep over it!!

SEE, I KNOW i'm a dumb ass hick, unlike all the other dumb ass hicks on here!!LMFAO!!

Easy123 (and other handles you use) The word sanctimonious should never leave your lips, kid. You are the definition of the word. BTW, I would think anyone using multiple screen names would certainly qualify as a troll, no?

I just love how this topic stirs up so many emotions from so many different people. I guess some on here will never know whats it like to have rights taken away from you because of who you love. Trust me it can make some feel less than human and feel like you dont have equal rights as others... its not a good feeling trust me... being considered a 2nd rate citizen is unjust. I wish they tables could be turned for one day so everyone else could see how it feels. #disappointedinhumanity

Troll_Dennis,

"Easy123 (and other handles you use)"

I don't use any other "handles".

"The word sanctimonious should never leave your lips, kid."

It's not "leaving my lips", old man.

"You are the definition of the word."

You have nothing to substantiate that claim.

"BTW, I would think anyone using multiple screen names would certainly qualify as a troll, no?"

No, you still don't understand what a troll is. You're self-righteous AND ignorant. It's a sad combination.

You are a troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(I...)

easyrainbow? NOBODY can turn you into a second class citizen but your self!!

A lot of b/s goes on on here BUT it ain't real!

It's just a buncha jerks shootin their mouth's off!

BUT IF you don't wanta git into a fight then don't shoot off your mouth!

jesse,

"SEE, I KNOW i'm a dumb ass hick, unlike all the other dumb ass hicks on here!!LMFAO!!"

No, really, it's just you.

Rainbow87, how old are you?

I'm so sorry that any one would - could make you feel less than Human.

I promise it will not always be this way!!!

KEEP WORKIN ON IT EASY!!

sooner or later you will get to the level of "HICK"!

right now you are on the level of "retard" workin on semi stupid!

God says the husband and wife marital relationship is natural and the homosexual relationship is unnatural and shameful.

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Romans 1:26-27.

God also said, "And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp." Deuteronomy 23:13-14

I bet "conservative" keeps a shovel on his watch fob just in case god comes a'walking around his house.

The Bible is full of it, so watch where you step.

jesse,

"right now you are on the level of "retard" workin on semi stupid!"

Your ignorance has never been more apparent.

Conservative,

"God says the husband and wife marital relationship is natural and the homosexual relationship is unnatural and shameful."

Which god? Why should anyone listen to what is written in a book and attributed to a deity? I could go on. But I know you won't be able to answer those two simple questions.

Homosexuality is very natural.

My standard response to the bible thumpers and Constitutionally illiterate. Name one nonreligious reason that can be used in a secular court of law to deny marriage equality. No slippery slope syndrome such as : marriage equality will lead to marriage with an amimal (when Bessie-The-Cow can sign a legal document, call Ripley's Believe It Or Not), an immediate family member ( legal next of kin status already established), or a child (legal age of consent already established). Polygamy is a separarte issue. If polygamists want to spend the time, effort, and money to challenge the laws against polgamy, that is their right under the Constitution. Being gay is a choice: irrelevant to the issue. Someone's chosen religious beliefs have no more validity under the Constitution than my (supposedly) chosen orientation or choice in my partner. Forcing churches to marry gay and lesbian couples : the separation of church and state works on both sides of this issue. As far as I know no one has successfully sued the Catholic church to force them to marry divorced couples or non-Catholics. "You can marry someone of the opposite sex." : discriminates on the basis of one of the couples gender (illegal).So, banning marriage equality goes against the First, Ninth ( the one that says just because a civil right isn't stated doesn't imply it doesn't exist) Fourteenth Amendments, the Full Faith And Credibility Clause, and federal laws against discrimination based on gender.

EASY< about what i expected!

You need to bone up on some smarts!

You be's showin some STUPID on here latly!LOL

easy,you have professed to be an atheist which makes you a fool in God's eyes- "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" Psalm 14:1

You, being an atheist means you don't know God which also means you are a heathen and need to obey the gospel - Galatians chapter 3 verse 8 reads - "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the HEATHEN through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."

You, being an atheist also means you are an anti-Christ - "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2John 1:7"

You have convinced me that you are a fool, a heathen and an anitchrist so go and convince someone else.

jesse,

"bone up on some smarts".

What does that mean exactly?

"You be's showin some STUPID on here latly!LOL"

I'm showing some stupid yet you just used the contraction "be's" and spelled "lately" incorrectly.

Keep going. You're digging that hole deeper and deeper.

Conservative,

How many times do you think you could recycle that post?

Being a Christian means you're delusional. And a supporter of slavery, oppression of women, supporter of human sacrifice, etc. I could go on.

Being a Christian means you're ignorant. You don't believe in common scientific facts like evolution, the Big Bang, global warming, etc. Still, I could go on.

Being a Christian means you're anti-knowledge and a bigot. You attempt to get equal time for your religion in schools and indoctrinate children. You strictly oppose free thinking of any kind and condemn anyone and everyone, homosexuals are a good example, that doesn't believe the way you do.

You have convinced me that you are delusional, ignorant, anti-knowledge, and a bigot so go and convince someone else. And I didn't even have to use verses from a 2,000 year old, historically inaccurate, contradictory, book of myths to prove my points!

Notice that homosexuality is a CHOICE.

"Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen" Romans 1:24-25.

easy .just tryin to get down onto a level you could comprehend!

Hope i made it BUT doubt it!

Conservative - if you expect homosexuals to merit God's favor by keeping the Law, then you also have to abide by the same formula. In Romans chapters 1 and 2, Paul proclaims a long list of sins. If you can't find yourself on that list, you are not reading carefully enough. Fortunately, Paul's message doesn't end there. He concludes with a proclamation of God's grace in Jesus Christ. If God's grace is not sufficient for the homosexual, what makes you think it is sufficient for you? I give thanks every day that God is faithful to His understanding of grace and doesn't function with yours.

I said "SUPPOSEDLY". I didn't ask or choose to be gay. And following the argument that being homosexual is a choice to it's logical conclusion is that everyone is born bisexual untill a conscious choice is made otherwise. Flip it 180 degrees. When did YOU choose to be heterosexual? If it's a choice for homosexuals, then logically, it also has to be a choice for heterosexuals. IOW, you failed at logical reasoning and debate. Just because something can't be clearly proven (yet) biologically isn't a conclusion that it isn't biologically induced. 10% of the populaion is left handed and even today doctors and scientits have no complete explanation. My father, mother, older sister, and I are right handed. My younger sister is left handed. Did she choose to be left handed? Years ago kids were punished for being left dominant and forced to use their right hand. Guess what? A lot of left handed people developed motor skill and dexterity difficulties that were irreversable even after they switched back to left dominant. Because being right handed was't natural to them.

Conservative has NO idea what a christian IS!AT ALL!

He lives in the DARK AGES and has no wish for insight!

IF Christains have it right, and i don't think they do. BUT if they do folks like conservative and andrew and so forth are gonna be in the hottest corner of hell!

BTW: sexual orentation is like being left handed,you ain't got nuttin to do w/it,it just is what it is!

Conservative,

Homosexuality isn't a choice. Heterosexuality isn't either.

"Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

Conservative, I have seen numerous posters point out to you quotes from the Bible that pertain to God's sanctioning (for his "chosen" people) of slavery, rape, incest, polygamy, infanticide, genocide, death for breaking the Sabbath and for children disobeying parents, etc., and they have asked you to defend your position regarding those quotes, but I have never - not once - seen you respond specifically to any one of those references. All you do is come back with your same old Bible quotes of choice, over and over again. If you think the Bible is the inerrant word of God, then why don't you spend a little time explaining God's obvious cruelty and sadism in the Old Testament and let us know whether you live up to all those Old Testament laws that pertain to things other than homosexuality, or do you choose to ignore them? And if you ignore them, then why? Inquiring minds want to know. Either put up or shut up. Enough already with your self-serving cherry-picked quotes!

Easy123, doncha know the APA is a part of the "homasexshall ageendah"?

Easy: You be gittin yo ass kicked.

MTJohn, are you deliberately trying to deceive?

"if you expect homosexuals to merit God's favor by keeping the Law"

I have never stated or ever implied such nonsense! Where do you get such anti scriptural hogwash?

Have you not read "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

No man ever has, or ever will inherit the Kingdom of God by keeping the law!

The law was given to reveal the sinful nature of man, to make man aware that he was a sinner and in need of a Savior.

Do you now see these truths in that verse?

Troll_Dennis,

LMAO! It must really be bliss to be as dumb as you are.

Mtjohn, regarding your 11:13 am comment, instead of siding with unrighteousness and promoting unrighteousness against the clear teaching of God, try advocating for the elimination of all the tax benefits for married couples instead.

conservative said..."MTJohn, are you deliberately trying to deceive?...I have never stated or ever implied such nonsense! Where do you get such anti scriptural hogwash?"

I'm not trying to deceive. You might not have said so, explicitly. However, it is the logical extension of your argument.

I understand very well that the law was given to reveal man's sinful nature - not just the homosexual's, but yours and mine. That is the whole purpose of Paul's treatise from which you quoted only one passage. You and I stand condemned every bit as much as does the homosexual. And, the same promise of salvation, by grace through faith, is there for the homosexual, as it is for you and me, and that promise is not dependent upon anyone keeping the law.

The real hogwash in this exchange is your use of proof-texting to suggest that homosexuals stand outside of God's promise because of their orientation and/or their desire to act based on that orientation.

conservative said..."Mtjohn, regarding your 11:13 am comment, instead of siding with unrighteousness..."

Conservative - I am not taking the side of unrighteousness. I am siding with the American values of liberty and justice. I am also striving to obey the commandment to love my neighbor as myself.

to reply to Potcat i am 25.... and for conservative i love how you will not go into detail to discuss all the other old testament sexual ethic issues i put into my last post. Is there a reason Conservative you dont want to discuss incest, slavery, rape, and adultery all discussed in my earlier post... And Conservative you never answered the question of eating shellfish and pork.. do you do that cause you could get in trouble according to the old testament law... i wonder why you wont answer these questions.. and if you are so hard core on old testament law why dont you read the new testament and the new covenant that christians are suppose to be under.. Jesus says, "I have come not to do away with the law but to fulfill the law" Laws didnt work, God knew humans could not live under law and keep it... so according to your own Bible that you love to quote, Jesus came because the law wasnt working. You wanna go Bible i will go head on with you on the Bible.

The god of the Bible, Yahweh, if alive today, would be the greatest killer of humanity that ever existed.

That Jehovah is a serial killer and criminal mind that would make Stalin, Hitler, and Mao look like rank amateurs.

Worship god? Why? He's a petty tyrant, a tribal-created deity, undeserving of worship for his criminal actions and the genocide he's inflicted upon humanity and the wankers who would follow his wickedness, and perpetrate those same crimes in his name.

To equate god with love is illogical. No thanks, god, keep your psychotic love. I'm doing very well without it.

MTJohn, regarding homosexuality, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Can anyone tell me why homosexuals shouldn't have the same rights as heterosexuals? Your response will be omitted if you use an argument that incorporates Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc. teachings.

Religion makes (otherwise) good people think and do terrible things.

This is for Jesse... i was not saying i felt like a 2nd rate citizen i was sorry for those who have to feel like that because of people not wanting them to have the same rights... one of the best statements ever made... "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Still waiting con-man. I want to know why you choose to pay such strict obedience to an archaic OT law regarding homosexuality but you obviously don't adhere to those laws that call for putting to death anyone who works on the sabbath or children who disobey their parents. Or have you followed through on those laws, too? Did you stone your kids? Or kill someone you knew for working on the sabbath? Have you stoned any adulterers lately? God condemns even heterosexual adultery, you know, and called for stoning. I have never seen you speak so vehemently against people working on the sabbath or kids not honoring their parents as I see you speak out, constantly, about homosexuality. I know the Bible pretty well, con-man. I have not seen evidence that God favored an anti-homosexualtiy agenda over an anti-working-on-the-sabbath agenda or any other anti-agenda for that matter. Please explain for all of us. Still waiting.

MTjohn, Oh, but you are taking the side of unrighteousness when you side with homosexual behavior especially in siding with homosexuals marrying. Homosexuality is unrighteousness!

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

A good cartoon Clay. One that illustrates perfectly the so called (pffbbtt- plleeeze Jesse) ‘gay agenda.’ Liberty and Justice. Denying either to anyone is UN-American. Were blacks, the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Jews or the Japanese ungodly? Did bring about the fall of the empire? …er sorry, I meant Republic.

But the very same people that vilified the above are now quick to judge with the much the same argument. They love spouting fairy tale scriptures; Don’t you--you so called ‘Christians’ “God said it. I believe it. That settles it!”
But. He didn’t. And; *"If God has spoken, why is the world STILL not convinced?" After all it’s only been…thousands of years.

**Is your God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then your God is not omnipotent.

Is your God able, but not willing?

Then your God is malevolent.

Is your God both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is your God neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God? : Percy Bysshe Shelley & *Epicurus

Christians certainly are a kooky bunch, I mean really man, their god, the guy that has the power to create ANYTHING in/and made THE universe makes as his first ‘friend’ a naked guy? Sounds kinda gay to me. And even after Eden’s first gay pride parade and then god created woman, y’all want us to believe that sin came only after the chick listened to a talking snake?? Sheeaat!

"Your God is the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." :Richard Dawkins

"There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." : Frank Zappa

You Mr. Conservative, haven’t learned the difference yet.

Rickaroo,

Conservative is a coward. Conservative will not engage in debate because of that fact.

To most objective, rational people it is obvious that homosexuality is not a chosen lifestyle but a biologic, genetic predisposition. But fundamentalist Christians, being completely devoid of reason and common sense, especially when it comes to their religion, will forever cling to their notion that being gay is a "choice," no matter how much scientific evidence or psychological studies there might be to prove it otherwise. Just like they cling stubbornly to the preposterous belief that the earth is only 6,000 - 10,000 years old, verifiable scientific evidence to the contrary, they will forever cling to the notion that gays choose to be gay and are living in "sin." If they thought for one minute that gays were simply "born gay," that God created them that way, then they would be at a loss as to how to justify their condemnation.

The Bible thumping Christians like to say that they love the sinner but hate the sin, but let's face it....they worship a small-minded, hateful God, and if the very God they worship is small-minded and hateful, then why should they themselves not be? I'm not saying that God is in reality small-minded or hateful (if indeed there is a God), but just that these judgmental Christians CHOOSE to worship that sort of God. Funny...if there is a choice as to a questionable, immoral lifestyle, it is these Bible thumpers CHOOSING to live their lives based on a dubious moral framework in accordance with the sort of sadistic, jealous, and vengeful God they CHOOSE to worship.

MTJohn, regarding your "I am also striving to obey the commandment to love my neighbor as myself."

Siding with a homosexual in promoting homosexual marriage is not Biblical love.

Homosexuality is a terrible sin and aiding and abiding anyone in this most sinful behavior is not Biblical love, for if you truly cared and loved a homosexual you would not sanction his sinful lifestyle and would warn that one of the consequences of such a lifestyle.

conservative said..."Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?"

Agreed. But, who are the unrighteous? Is it those who sin. Or, is it those who reject God's promise? I believe it is the latter. Moreover, I believe that the only sin that separates us from God's promise is the sin of unbelief. If the homosexual's sin equates with unbelief, then so does your sin and my sin.

conservative said..."Siding with a homosexual in promoting homosexual marriage is not Biblical love."

I am not promoting homosexual marriage. I am advocating liberty and justice for those who choose to live in committed, same-gender relationships. Advocating the same liberty and justice for my neighbor that would advocate for myself is very much in keeping with loving my neighbor as I love myself.

Rickaroo,

I've always wondered whether Christians believe that they "chose" their own sexuality. I've never heard a Christian give any mention to "choosing" heterosexuality.

It's a strange sort of bigotry.

You're right, Easy. He probably considers himself to be a valiant christian soldier but is in reality a coward for christ.

Christianity is a terrible thing. Aiding and abetting anyone in this most delusional behavior is not a reasonable person, for if you truly cared and loved a Christian you would not sanction his ignorant, bigoted lifestyle and would warn that one of the consequences of such a lifestyle.

Easy123 said..."I've never heard a Christian give any mention to "choosing" heterosexuality."

Easy - I am a Christian and I am heterosexual. I can remember that, as a kindergartner, I enjoyed playing doctor with the neighbor girl of similar age. However, when I played with her brother, it was cowboys and indians. I guess that you could say we had some choice in the games that we played. But, I don't think we had much choice in the instincts that motivated those choices.

Well Clay can sleep well tonight,Limric came by and DROPPED a blessing on his ass!!

Did it without usin any of them $6.00 words too!

Usually after Limric posts on here i spend the rest of the day lookin up words in the dict.!

MTJohn,

I'm a former Christian and I am heterosexual. I never recall choosing to be attracted to females. I never made that conscious choice.

So how is it that homosexuals choose to be gay but heterosexuals are born straight? It would seem that is the case with Conservatives' thinking.

" Why do people say grow some balls? Balls are weak and sensitive. People should say grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding!!"- Betty White

Hey easy, i'm hetro BUT i'm particular about it!

I'm into brunettes w/blue eyes and j-lo asses!

Just woke up one morn and decided "O.K. this is what i like from now on!!" According to Mt.john and conservative that's the way it works ,right?

jesse,

I think everyone has a type but I also think that comes with experience. Some people like a wide variety of traits while others like very specific ones. But I don't think that is mutually exclusive between just men and women. I think men can find attractive/admirable traits in other men and the same with women. It's just very confusing to me how some people can be so narrow minded about these issues and base their entire worldview on a 2,000 year old book of myths, contradictions, forgeries, and historical inaccuracies.

Apparently, that is what the majority of Christians have to adhere to in order to reconcile their hatred towards homosexuals.

That's funny, potcat. Point well made!

Easy123 said..."I never recall choosing to be attracted to females. I never made that conscious choice.

So how is it that homosexuals choose to be gay but heterosexuals are born straight? It would seem that is the case with Conservatives' thinking."

I don't recall choosing to be straight, either. And, if I didn't choose, I don't think anyone else did either, whether gay or straight. More to the point, if it were a choice, I do not understand why someone who choose to be gay - especially given the social stigma associated with that choice.

Hitchens is the best. And this is one of the best speeches I've heard on Christianity (specifically the Catholic Church) in regard to contraceptives, homosexuality, etc.

MTJohn,

"More to the point, if it were a choice, I do not understand why someone who choose to be gay - especially given the social stigma associated with that choice."

I share similar sentiments, sir.

Most of the hate talk I hear re homosexuals comes from the left...looking for a cause. Most heterosexuals I know couldn't care less. Just another (weak) reason to bash the Bible. But I forgot, you guys are enlightened.

Troll_Dennis,

"Most of the hate talk I hear re homosexuals comes from the left...looking for a cause."

And you're delusional... without a cause.

"Most heterosexuals I know couldn't care less."

That's the problem. The status quo isn't good enough. How would the US be today if we just didn't care less about slavery or women's rights?

"Just another (weak) reason to bash the Bible."

Another very strong reason to add to the mounting reasons to bash bigotry, homophobia, and ignorance. Most of which comes from, at least in America, Christians. I share similar sentiments towards EVERY religion but, since we live in the United States, I am focusing on the most prominent one: Christianity.

"But I forgot, you guys are enlightened."

Exponentially more so than you, you ignorant bastard.

Christians seem to justify their own early instinctual (non-thinking) sexual urges as being the norm for everyone and they cannot fathom how anyone might have different sexual urges. When I went through puberty I suddenly found myself strongly attracted to girls. I didn't think about it in the least, as to whether I should be attracted to boys in the same way. At the time it never even crossed my mind that girls might just as well be attracted to other girls or that boys might be attracted to other boys.

Later in life, when I learned about homosexuality, it didn't take a lot of perceptivity to realize that there were people who were instinctively attracted to their same gender. It took only a few friendly chats with gays to know that they were not making a deliberate "choice" to be kinky or disobedient to God or nature but were simply acting in accordance with their instinctual sexual proclivities. The thought of sex with other men has never been the least bit appealing to me but it never crossed my mind to judge gays for being gay, even back when I was a Christian.

I honestly don't get where these petty Christians are coming from when they waste so much time analyzing and focusing their attention on gay people. What two people do behind closed doors, without hurting anyone, should be nobody's business but their own. Even if they are "sinning" in someone else's eyes, it is THEIR sin, between them and their God or their conscience, and those Christians should butt out and worry about their own conduct and not waste their time chastising others for theirs. But without their self-righteous chastisements, I suppose they would not have anything to feel righteous about.

Easy123, etc You are one sick, misinformed, twisted, little fellow.

Troll_Dennis,

Your baseless invectives mean nothing. I'm not sick, misinformed, or twisted. And you can't conjure up any evidence to the contrary. You're talking out of your ass, Jackie. You just throw out words that you think will be insulting when, in reality, they aren't applicable whatsoever. When I don't think it's possible for you to appear any more ignorant than you already do, you go and prove me wrong!

Would you like to keep going? I enjoy watching you hang yourself with your own words. :-)

not hanging, bunky. invective, huh? Did you learn a word of the day at the low-end JUCO you attend?

Easy, I have seen many of Hitchens' lectures, debates, and interviews but I had not seen that one. Great stuff! It's a shame he had to die so young. He was a powerful voice of reason.

Troll_Dennis,

"not hanging, bunky. invective, huh? Did you learn a word of the day at the low-end JUCO you attend?"

What a rebuttal! You're like a 6 year old with the comebacks.

Keep going! To quote you: "You be gittin yo ass kicked."

Rickaroo,

"It's a shame he had to die so young. He was a powerful voice of reason."

I concur. Hitchens was the greatest orator of our time.

How about that JUCO, Easy123, etc? Wanna share that with us? Nothing to be ashamed about son. You're just spouting stuff that atheist have been throwing out for years. Yet you think the thoughts are yours. Most of us go thru that stage, then outgrow it.

Hitchins was full of 90 proof single malt, 90% of the time.

Troll_Dennis,

"How about that JUCO, Easy123, etc?"

I do not attend a Junior College and I never have. This is one of those "Jack talking out of his ass" moments.

"Wanna share that with us?

I can't share an experience that I've never had. Have you stopped beating your wife?

"Nothing to be ashamed about son."

I agree, however, I'm not your son, old man.

"You're just spouting stuff that atheist have been throwing out for years."

Not quite. But, either way, that would be significantly better than the garbage you spew here on a regular basis.

"Yet you think the thoughts are yours."

Any thought that I don't attribute to someone else is my own. That's how thoughts work. You think them, then you say/type them. That makes them yours. Very few ideas, if any, are "new". Humans have a distinct ability to take in many ideas and mold them into their own, novel thoughts.

"Most of us go thru that stage, then outgrow it."

No, you don't. You never outgrew that dumbass stage you hit when your mother grunted you out of her vagina.

"Hitchins was full of 90 proof single malt, 90% of the time."

You spelled the man's name wrong, idiot.

You're full of sh!t 300% of the time, every time.

Jack_Dennis said... "Hitchins was full of 90 proof single malt, 90% of the time." Is that all ya got?

So is 90% of the GOP, preachers and priests. But you'd still pay to blow DICK Cheney. What is that over there, your a$$ or a whole in the ground? You don't know --- DO YOU?

hahahaha you enlightened ones are easy to rile!

Troll_Dennis,

"hahahaha you enlightened ones are easy to rile!"

So is your mother. hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaahhahahhahaha

She's 92, Easy123,etc; I'll pass that along.

Troll_Dennis,

I'll tell her when I drop by later. I always help her shave her chest and back on Saturdays.

easy,etc Your immaturity is astounding.

Troll_Dennis,

"easy,etc Your immaturity is astounding."

How so? This coming from the same person that is attempting to use attending at Junior College as an insult? Or the same person that only trolls on these threads?

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

And, since you think I have more than one "handle", it would be "Easy123 et al." , not "etc.", moron.

Finally!

Jack you're finally right about something. Quote, "you enlightened ones."

Mekka lekka high, mekka hiney ho. Long live Jambe.

Romney said, "When I'm elected, I will put Americans back to work," and 51% said, "F@&k That!!"

joneses,

Unemployment down to 7.7%.

LMAO at you!

Being hetrosexual is not who I am it's what I do in the bedroom. Not so with homosexuals, they (and the left) want it to define them.

Easy123, Rickaroo, MTJohn, have you noticed that NONE of the drivel that some people are blathering about answers a simple question? I'm still waiting for a logical, nonreligious reason to deny marriage equality that doesn't conflict with established Constitutional precedent.

patriot1, I don't "define" my life by my orientation. But when I'm denied equal access to civil rights BECAUSE of my orientation, then I have a problem.

Patriot,

Incorrect and stupid. Heterosexual is what you are. You can't "do" heterosexual. Sex is what you do in the bedroom; it just happens to be with a woman.

Ozzy87 said..."I'm still waiting for a logical, nonreligious reason to deny marriage equality that doesn't conflict with established Constitutional precedent."

Don't hold your breath because there isn't a logical, non-religious reason to deny marriage equality. In fact, I don't think there is a logical Christian reason to deny marriage equality, either.

With that said, my personal preference would be for government to get out of the marriage business altogether. The liberty and justice issues all relate to the contractual relationship - the civil union. If we, as a society, choose to grant special benefits to couples based on their commitment to a civil union, those benefits ought to extend to every couple, irrespective of gender, and the civil union ought to be validated at the courthouse. Clergy ought to have nothing to do with that transaction. I'm also open to Harp's question, i.e. whether any benefits ought to be granted on the basis of civil unions.

While civil unions are legal commitments, "marriage" is a spiritual commitment. The whole matter ought to rest with the couple and, at their choosing, the couple and their faith community. And, individual faith communities ought to be completely free to exercise their own discretion regarding which marriages they choose to bless.

"'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 18:22 --conservative"

Ah, the book of Leviticus. It starts out a little slow, kind of a Robert's Rules of sacrifice, but picks up steam as it goes. Yes, yes we get it; homosexuality is an abomination and the heathen shall be put to death. What about the other rules of Leviticus?

Lev. 20:10 states that if a man cheats on his wife, both the man and woman must die. There has been some hand-wringing amongst local republicans concerning Dr. DesJarlais moving forward. Problem solved.

Lev. 19:19 forbids letting multiple kinds of cattle graze in the same field. I was up in Sale Creek a couple of days ago and saw holsteins and angus grazing together. In the eyes of God, that farmer might as well have fellas in leather shorts shakin' their biscuits to "It's Raining Men" out in the field.

Lev. 20:27 states that psychics and wizards are to be stoned to death. I think Led Zeppelin did a song about this.

Lev. 20:14, If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. Dear Penthouse Forum...

Lev. 19:27 forbids cutting your hair and shaving. Those blasphemers down at Great Clips must be stopped!

It goes on and on. If we are going to use the rules of Leviticus to set the grounds for individual rights in America, let's not cherry-pick for our own convenience. And by-the-way, if you are wearing a cotton-poly blend or any other textile composite...Knock it off! Didn't you read Leviticus 19:19?

Hypocrits all, only two post acknowldged singles are discriminated against.

MTJohn, regarding your "You and I stand condemned every bit as much as does the homosexual."

Wrong! so wrong!

I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and so "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1

No condemnation MtJohn!

Jesus has saved me not just from the penalty of all my past, present and future sins but from the power of sin also!

To quote Ozzy87:

"I'm still waiting for a logical, nonreligious reason to deny marriage equality that doesn't conflict with established Constitutional precedent."

"Jesus has saved me not just from the penalty of all my past, present and future sins but from the power of sin also!"

Conservative doesn't sin... LMFAO!

Is it possible to be any more narcissistic or self-righteous? I mean claiming to know god personally is one thing but then claiming that you don't make mistakes is a whole different monster.

Delusion and sophistry to the highest degree.

Conservative - You quoted what I said about condemnation. You ignored what I said about justification - a statement that is consistent with your reference to Romans 8:1.

So, if you and I no longer are condemned, regardless of our sin, because we have accept Christ as Savior, please explain why that same promise doesn't work for the homosexual.

MTJohn, regarding your "I am also striving to obey the commandment to love my neighbor as myself."

Siding with a homosexual in promoting homosexual marriage is not Biblical love.

Homosexuality is a terrible sin and aiding and abiding anyone in this most sinful behavior is not Biblical love, for if you truly cared and loved a homosexual you would not sanction his sinful lifestyle and would warn that one of the consequences of such a lifestyle.

conservative said..

I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and so "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 !

Jesus has saved me not just from the penalty of all my past, present and future sins but from the power of sin also!"

If only you sinners would accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your personal God and Savior. His Noodly Goodness doth rain down upon vegetarians and meat-eater alike. Taste His Noodly Goodness; partake of His Divine Semolina. Quench your thirst in his Alfredo Sauce and repent of the wickedness of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. Yea, it is an abomination unto His Holy Pasta to lie with another heathen false noodle.

Won't you turn away from the sin of Ramen and enter into His Holy Fettuccine and partake of the communion of Crostini and Chianti?

Be ye not deceived by the pleasure of Ragu in a jar or Parmesan in a green-topped plastic container, but search daily for the true Basil and Pine Nuts of His Holy Pesto.

May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage, I humbly ask in His Holy name.

The question Bennett and all should ponder is why the State has any say-so in the personal, volitional decisions between persons.

Is the State the Ultimate Force behind the concept of marriage?

No -- the State should simply protect our natural right from infringement and from the coercion of others, and no more.

may the fetus you save be gay.

conservative said..."Homosexuality is a terrible sin..."

If so, on what basis do you conclude that is a in any more terrible than those which you commit?

MTJohn regarding your, "You quoted what I said about condemnation"

No I did not! I corrected your false assumption that I as a believer stood condemned before God. Prior to my accepting Christ as my Lord and Savior, I did stand condemned. However, once again "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1.

Now that same promise does not work for the practicing homosexual because as a practicing homosexual that one gives evidence that he is not saved and that he has not accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

Now, numerous times I have given you this Scripture (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) which plainly states that the practicing homosexual will not inherit the kingdom of God. Other lifestyles by the lost are also mention in that verse that puts them in the same boat with homosexuals. However, I mention only the homosexual because that has been the topic at hand.

" Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Notice MTJohn the word "unrighteous." This list of the unrighteous are NOT clothed with the righteousness of Christ, are NOT believers, are NOT saved, are NOT Christians, are NOT justified.

Harp3339 wrote: "Hypocrits all, only two post acknowldged singles are discriminated against."

Harp...you're not that obtuse, are you? You have to know why, as a childless, unmarried person, that your income taxes are at a higher rate. It's not an act of discrimination. It's due to the fact that your costs of living are far lower than households with two or more persons in them. Thus, you can sacrifice a little more in taxes, without taking away from your lifestyle.

Children are not allowed to support themselves in this nation. Therefore, their living costs come directly out of the pockets of the adults in the household providing their sustenance.

If children are not in the household, but their exists two adults who are married, they are allowed to pay their taxes at a lower rate because their living costs are expected to be double what they are for a single person in all categories but the cost of providing housing for the two of them.

You've opined your objections on this issue many times. Why belabor the point? Be proactive. Write every Congressperson and convince them to take a second look that the Fair Tax.

You and I agree on that proposal -- which is one that would truly tax people fairly and uniformly.

Mother Goose and Aesop have just as much power as god, and were a heck of a lot better characters.

Conservative's god is just like him. A sanctimonious, delusional paranoid with schizo tendencies.

conservative said..."Prior to my accepting Christ as my Lord and Savior, I did stand condemned."

I know and that is what I said.

conservative said..."Now that same promise does not work for the practicing homosexual because as a practicing homosexual that one gives evidence that he is not saved and that he has not accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior."

Then what makes you think that the promise works of you - another practicing sinner?

dayton123 is uncommonly vicious tonight. needs hate management.

No hate—just so easy to make fun of tossers like conservative and the other religious orthodox wankers about gods and holy books created by humans.

@Jesse: The "gay agenda" - get up; take shower; have coffee; go to work; have lunch; pick up groceries; make dinner; enjoy dinner with partner/spouse; do a load of laundry; watch TV with partner/spouse; go to bed. Wow.... looks a lot like everyone else's "agenda". eyeroll

As usual, MTJohn is the consistent voice of gentle wisdom on this thread.

Harp, I think you've really only written 3 or 4 posts and over the years you just cut and paste, recycling them regardless of topic - same ole, same ole.......

MTJohn, I have noticed that you try to make everything about homosexuality an issue between you and me. You try to refute me with your own words and not Scripture. You almost never back up or refer to Scripture to support your claims.

The Christian life must be based on the teachings of Scripture, that is doctrine, and not the teachings of man or the traditions of man.

You obviously believe, contrary to Scripture, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 for instance, that a practicing homosexual can be a Christian, a child of God.

Now, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?" Yes or no?

Conservative - I haven't made this an issue between you and me. I'm just pointing out that, in my opinion, you are applying Law/Gospel to yourself according to a different standard than the one you are trying to apply to the homosexual. You are a sinner who knows that you have been justified by God's Grace. Yet, you argue that a homosexual cannot be justified by God's Grace because his sin is proof of unbelief. Well, if sin is proof of unbelief, neither you nor I can hold to the promise of grace that you would withhold from the homosexual because we are both sinners.

I have, in fact, backed up my statements with reference to Scripture. I just haven't cut/pasted the verses in my posts. My first response to you in this exchange was a reference to the first three chapters of Romans from which you selected a single verse to focus on homosexuals. In my opinion, you missed the larger spiritual truth.

Paul presented a long list of sins - a list sufficient to demonstrate that, under the law, every person stands condemned. Paul concludes the argument with the following: "21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 gand are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as ka propitiation lby his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:21-26, ESV).

I believe that promise holds for everyone who stands condemned, under the law. Righteousness is ours, by faith, not by whether or not we have ceased sinning.

(contintued)

I agree that the Christian life must be based on the teachings of Scripture. But, what are those teachings? I believe the core teachings are the revelation of God's plan of salvation for sinful people; the revelation of God as Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier; the revelation of God who as created each of us to live in a loving relationship with God and, thus empowered, to live in a loving relationship with one another. I believe that there really are only two commandments - love God and love your neighbor as yourself. I also believe, based on Jesus' logic in the sermon on the mount, that those two commandments are impossible to keep. Thus, I also believe that proof texting a rule book to draw distinctions bears false witness to the deeper truth revealed by Scripture.

I believe that a person is a child of God because God has declared that person to be so. I believe that all practicing sinners who know Christ as Savior are children of God. I also believe that all children of God also are practicing sinners.

I believe that the righteous will inherit the Kingdom of God. I believe that God is the judge of righteousness and that God will make judgement based on Christ's righteousness.

Conservative - the conversation belongs in this thread, not over there and, unless, you respond in this thread, I will no longer respond to you.

God's Word regarding the promise of forgiveness and salvation is a promise for all people who believe. God's Word is very clear in noting that it is by God's grace, not by our keeping the Law, that we are saved. God's Word is also very clear in that the only sin that separates us from that promise is the sin of unbelief.

You understand that you do not need to keep the Law to be saved. Yet, you insist that homosexuals must keep the Law to be saved. Your logic does not compute.