published Thursday, October 4th, 2012

The Debate

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Jack_Dennis said...

an old-fashioned butt-whuppin.

October 4, 2012 at 12:19 a.m.
miraweb said...

Fact checkers are on their game. One of the more interesting tidbits:

ROMNEY: What would I cut from spending? Well, first of all, I will eliminate all programs by this test, if they pass it: Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?

THE FACTS: China continues to be portrayed by Romney and many other Republicans as the poster child for runaway federal deficits.

It's true that China is the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt, but it only represents about an 8 percent stake. And China has recently been decreasing its holdings, according to the Treasury Department. Some two-thirds of the $16 trillion national debt is owed to the federal government, with the largest single stake the Federal Reserve, as well as American investors and the Social Security Trust Fund.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/FACT-CHECK-Presidential-debate-missteps-3917656.php#page-1

October 4, 2012 at 12:27 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

weak sauce, Mira. Take your lumps and go to bed.

October 4, 2012 at 12:31 a.m.
mymy said...

32 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 4, 2012 at 12:33 a.m.
miraweb said...

A couple more fact checks:

Independent analysts say Romney’s numbers don’t add up. The rate cuts and other changes he’s proposing would indeed total almost $5 trillion over 10 years, and though he said Wednesday he’d pay for those cuts by reducing deductions and credits, a study by the Tax Policy Center found that it was “mathematically impossible” to cover the $5 trillion reduction by eliminating tax breaks solely on high-income taxpayers.

Romney acknowledged Wednesday that the bare numbers of his tax plan might not be revenue-neutral, but he said growth and new jobs created by his policies would generate added revenue to cover the gap.

Romney has said he’d repeal the 2010 Dodd-Frank reform law. Wednesday he argued that this was in part because he didn’t think the law was tough enough because it’s actually a gift to big banks by setting up a system that could bail them out in the future.

But Dodd-Frank provides no promise that too-big-to-fail banks will be bailed out.

Only Congress could take such a step by passing a new law like TARP – and there is almost no chance of that happening, since the law has remained politically unpopular since it passed in 2008.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82002.html

October 4, 2012 at 12:35 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

NOW MITT IS A MODERATE?

Seriously? The guy who bragged about tax cuts for the rich, now insists, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high income Americans."

Really? Since when? Tonight?

Who is this guy? I'm glad I don't have the job of comparing stuff Mitt said tonight with stuff he said last year, last month, and even last week.

He's the political equivalent of Zelig.

October 4, 2012 at 12:39 a.m.
mymy said...

Jim Lehrer tried but could not save Obama tonight!!! O was always looking at him for help. Pathetic.

October 4, 2012 at 12:41 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

October 4, 2012 at 12:41 a.m.
mymy said...

The Chicago Thug Machine will be working overtime for sure. Get ready.

Good, Good Night.

October 4, 2012 at 12:44 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: "Seriously? The guy who bragged about tax cuts for the rich, now insists, "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high income Americans." Really? Since when? Tonight?"

Remember, Blackwater48, Romney does lie a lot. Even one of his top advisors had to do a little clean-up after tonight's debate:

"After the first presidential debate at the University of Denver in Colorado on Wednesday night, one of Mitt Romney’s top advisers acknowledged that, as a result Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions would likely be unable to purchase insurance.

The admission directly contradicts the GOP candidate’s claim during the debate that “pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan” — a contention Romney has repeated on the trail and that his campaign has repeatedly walked back."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/top-romney-adviser-states-will-have-to-cover-people-with-pre-existing-conditions-under-president-rom.php?ref=fpblg

October 4, 2012 at 12:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

Obama a clear winner.....he got 4 minutes+ more time to talk than Romney. Subtract the er ahs etc. to even it up. Hannity, the republicans Limbaugh on TV (FOX) grabs republican supporters to interview, they all concluded Romney did well. Wolf Blitzer (CNN) the democrats ED on TV grabs all the democrat supporters who thought Obama did good. The post here will probably indicate who people let do their thinking for them. Axelrod, Obama's adviser, says the challenger always wins the first debate, he didn't say why, but he also said reaction polls didn't mean much so they must have favored Romney. Gary Johnson's participation would have been additive.

October 4, 2012 at 12:48 a.m.
champ1 said...

Can you say "exposed?" I've been saying that this guy was a phony, empty suit for 5 years! THAT WAS EPIC! I saw a post on facebook that said it all: " I sure hope Obamacare covers butt-whippings!" LMAO

October 4, 2012 at 12:58 a.m.
LaughingBoy said...

There were a few moments when the president had the look of "get me out of here!" His buddy Scarlett Johansson could have done a better job, she drew such praise from the left for her convention remarks. At the very least she would have been better for the karate outfit in yesterday's cartoon, as she learned some actual skills while training for the Avengers.

October 4, 2012 at 1:17 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Neither candidate can create growth or jobs without big spending by government and the American consumer. All the talk about deficit reduction AND growth is nothing but empty words. If you liked/believed what either candidate had to say, it must have been based on style because the content was thin gruel.

We are going to spend until the end...whatever that is...and both parties will participate to the fullest. The rest is a dog and pony show.

October 4, 2012 at 1:17 a.m.

Jim Lehrer? He was the worst performer on the stage. As a moderator, he was an empty suit.

I have to give Romney credit, he acted quite the performance. But that's all it was, acting, a charade.

The reality is...Romney made so many fake statements that we should probably consider requiring him to show his pants to make sure they're not smoldering. That podium did hide it.

Obama's mistake was in not calling out Romney on his lies. But I suppose that the pundit class will take care of it for him. Or Biden. Or he can call Romney on it at the next debate.

But do keep telling yourself that Romney won...he showed his true character, and if you're buying his snake oil, more fool you.

October 4, 2012 at 1:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb

I will not be voting for Romney but you seem willing to accept the rhetoric of Obama supporters that may not be entirely credible, are you biased? You would really blow a gasket if Gary Johnson had the funding to make the race more interesting.

Miraweb posted..... It's true that China is the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt, but it only represents about an 8 percent stake. And China has recently been decreasing its holdings, according to the Treasury Department. Some two-thirds of the $16 trillion national debt is owed to the federal government, with the largest single stake the Federal Reserve, as well as American investors and the Social Security Trust Fund.

His statement was he would retain a program if it was important enough to borrow money from China to fund it. He did not tonight nor has he said China was our largest creditor. They are our largest foreign creditor and have said they would not be increasing their investment in treasuries at the rate they had in the past. Do you wonder why the Fed is printing more money, is it to buy treasury bonds because China and others aren't and they have to to keep interest rates low?

miraweb said....

Romney acknowledged Wednesday that the bare numbers of his tax plan might not be revenue-neutral, but he said growth and new jobs created by his policies would generate added revenue to cover the gap.

Again...your fact checks are opinons. I have heard the man say before that growth of good paying jobs was the best way to reduce the deficit and stop the debt increase and that he would not increase taxes of the middle and lower income. So, your fact checkers opinion is not credible.

He has said before he would work to close loop holes used by the wealthy and you can bet you sweet bippy there are enough of those to equal the increase the old rates would bring. Most people that know squat about investing know a tax increase will just make people invest differently such as in tax exempt instruments therefore no added revenue. Eliminating deductions, called loop holes by some which indicate there is something crooked about them however they were put in by congress to show favor and gain support. Eliminating deductions for the higher income doesn't cause people to change their income source so that does increase revenue.

October 4, 2012 at 1:29 a.m.

Ah, the shibboleth of the Romney supporter, accepting without question his rhetoric, while complaining that it's Obama supporters who are biased.

Maybe you should look in the mirror yourself, and see how credulous you are.

Or you can continue taking things on blind faith from the Romney camp.

Because his promises mean everything to him, he's not the Etch-A-Sketch candidate at all.

October 4, 2012 at 1:33 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Even Times ed sorta admits Romney outperformed Obama.

nucanuck, the US economy grew faster A.D. 1840-1860 than it has grown in any 20-year-period since. Was that because of all the tax-paid spending or deficits of those years? Freedom works; bureaucracy just sits there. Jesus is libertarian.

October 4, 2012 at 6 a.m.
ricardo said...

Romney still did not convince me to vote for him.

October 4, 2012 at 6:09 a.m.
MTJohn said...

How is it possible to declare a winner in a debate in which neither candidate told the truth? The loser was the American people. But, that is our fault because we do not have the courage to vote for people who would tell us the truth.

October 4, 2012 at 6:42 a.m.
fairmon said...

hwtnb said....

But do keep telling yourself that Romney won...he showed his true character, and if you're buying his snake oil, more fool you.

hwtnb,,,this statement applies to both candidates. I wouldn't believe or trust Obama if he were injected with a truth serum, he is a political chameleon. Gary Johnson could have made the debates much more interesting.

October 4, 2012 at 6:45 a.m.
rick1 said...

Bulbs, said "Jim Lehrer? He was the worst performer on the stage. As a moderator, he was an empty suit."

Of course it's not Obama's fault he didn't show up last night. It's the moderator's fault.

October 4, 2012 at 6:52 a.m.
conservative said...

Na-nana-naa-nah!

October 4, 2012 at 7:07 a.m.
fairmon said...

Bulbs, said "Jim Lehrer? He was the worst performer on the stage. As a moderator, he was an empty suit."

What should he have done differently? He allowed Obama to get four minutes more air time than Romney. Is that the problem, the added time meant added damage? He kept the questions short and specific, he kept them talking. He tried to get them talking to each other but Obama kept talking to the moderator, the camera and it seemed occasionally to the podium.

October 4, 2012 at 7:08 a.m.
rolando said...

Of all the crap published on this Democrat-leaning rag, nary a word is found on this rather important item for Tennesseans -- http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/10/03/meningitis-outbreak-growing-in-tennessee-expands-to-north-carolina/

Methinks the TFP needs to tone down its rhetoric and provide the public with needed information.

Having to post this off-topic here is one example of the TRPs blindness to public concerns...it severely limits [read "selectively censors"] online comments that question its partisanship.

The TFP -- and the rest of the blind MSM -- fails miserably in its job of informing the public and thereby controlling government excess through light-of-day exposure.

October 4, 2012 at 7:39 a.m.
ibshame said...

President Obama did indeed give a lackluster performance no doubt about it. However, even his lackluster performance could not hide all the LIES Romney spewed at the podium. Some of the right wing nuts are foaming at the mouth this morning just so sure this is over and it's Romney's now to lose. Many Dems thought the same thing back in 2004 when George W. Bush lost his first debate to John Kerry but as that old Yogi euphemism goes: "it ain't over till it's over."

October 4, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

In defense of the TFP, rolando, the form of meningitis is not one that can be spread person to person-it has been traced to a procedure and they are contacting those that were exposed. This is not a public health risk.

October 4, 2012 at 7:54 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Boy did Clay's Title Bout cartoon come down fast! That one would look pretty stupid today. After Bennett's hero takes a pummeling the best he can come up with is a dodge from the real topic, Obama takes a beating.

Now that the "kung pu master" has been shown for the lightweight community organizer that he is will Clay spend the rest of his days as a champion for Jim Lehrer?

October 4, 2012 at 8:20 a.m.
rolando said...

Point taken, lkeithlu.

But depending on government notification of ANYTHING is downright dangerous. I speak with 40 years of varied experience with our government...as an insider.

Imagine depending on the FBI gun registration listing, just for starters. It doesn't even know where anything is, including one I imported [applied for while returning from overseas].

Getting the news out to those who took one of those shots during that period is paramount [and they should know who they are or can call]. I wouldn't depend on the government to be pro-active where anyone's health is concerned. But first, they must know they need to check...

Thanks for the response.

October 4, 2012 at 8:32 a.m.
rolando said...
October 4, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.

It wasn’t Lehrer’s best performance. The format wasn’t ideal. But I credit him for, over time, being one of the few major journalists, and the ONLY major broadcast anchor refusing to carry Obama’s water for him. BIG contrast with ’08 debates in that regard. The softball game with the Intern was postponed until the next press conference or the next debate. Lehrer’s departure from the News Hour was quite the loss for respectable broadcast journalism.

October 4, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.
patriot1 said...

It's Jim Lehrer's fault.

October 4, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.
rolando said...

This one is great...and on-topic:

http://times247.com/articles/maher-thinks-obama-lost-debate

Maher says he "needs his teleprompter". Great thing to be said for and about a President...hee, hee.

October 4, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.
rolando said...

And yet another factoid about our WH Resident Incompetent:

http://times247.com/articles/debate-wages-on-obama-s-downward-glances

Anyone aware of body language? That indicates subservience...

http://changingminds.org/techniques/body/submissive_body.htm

October 4, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
rolando said...

"This is fun" ~ M. Romney during debate

October 4, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
raygunz said...

That CNN POLL someone mentioned,, The poll sample was

100% white
100% from the South
100% over the age of 50
Mostly male
October 4, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.

You have to admire to admire Clay’s sense of duty in following Obama’s orders (and his best quote of the debate): “You may want to move on to another topic.”

October 4, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.
fairmon said...

Sorry about that Maher, no guarantees, contributions are not refundable. You could double down with another million and four more years. However, keep in mind when in a hole the first order of business is to stop digging. It is not likely anyone will get out of a hole by digging the hole deeper.

October 4, 2012 at 9:10 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

rolando said... "This is fun" ~ M. Romney during debate

Your avatar is spot on this morning.

October 4, 2012 at 9:14 a.m.
alprova said...

Clearly, there are people watching the debate last night that saw what they wanted to see. Regardless of what they saw, Mitt didn't convince a soul that he is any more worthy of their vote.

Last night's debate will not be the game-changer that some of you think it was. Mitt still didn't provide details of his tax plan when pressed for them. His refusal to provide a complete tax plan is very much like his refusal to release his own personal tax returns.

The lack of details can only mean that something is not adding up.

I think that most people know that an incomplete plan is one that will not come to pass, because if Mitt could produce what he is promising, he would be able to cite the way that he would be able to cut taxes 20% and not add to deficit spending.

What he is not telling people is that the only way that this is remotely possible, is to cut all mortgage interest deductions, for everyone. He also cannot admit to the wealthy that deductions that they enjoy now would have to be wiped out, essentially not giving them a reduction in their taxes at all.

It's a completely empty campaign promise, that he knows that he cannot deliver.

Right now, this very minute, Romney is being taken to task on CNN for his comment that he intends to cut funding for "Big Bird." Kids all over America heard that comment. Moms heard it too. He ticked off more than a few people.

Sesame Street is very popular programming, and contrary to Mitt's intentions assertions on national TV last night, very little of the money that pays for it comes from the Gov't. Private donations fund it for the most part, so Big Bird isn't going anywhere.

October 4, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.
alprova said...

"I like firing big birds..." -- Mitt Romney

October 4, 2012 at 9:40 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Is an ass-kickin covered under obamacare?

October 4, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Give it up Alpo, even Axelrod admitted Romney had a strong performance. Obama is in a dead end job. All through his rise to the top, he has been "jukin and jivin" and always running for the next highest office, never sitting still long enough to answer for his record. He has no where to run now. Without prepared remarks, TOTUS (teleprompter of the US), his staff and a softball throwing press he is an empty suit.

October 4, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
tderng said...

I think a better toon would have been Romney facing an empty podium. At least that's what it seemed like to most people (not to include alprova the cheerleader and Ms. Cutter the liar).

October 4, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
Walden said...

Romney mopped the stage floor with Obama's head last night. Quit while you're behind Alprova.

October 4, 2012 at 9:56 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO looks at things thru a peculiar lens.

October 4, 2012 at 9:56 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

If you think the chicago thugs were nasty before, hang on to your hineys. You ain't seen nothing yet.

October 4, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

LET'S ALL ASSUME

Romney criticized economists who said his tax plan would raise taxes on the poor and working class. He criticized economists who said his tax plan would blow a $5 Trillion hole in federal budget.

Romney assumes his tax plan will be revenue neutral. His opinion. Romney assumes that even though he cuts the top marginal rate from 35 to 28% the wealthy really won't get a tax cut because he'll close loopholes. His opinion. He criticized economists who said that even if he closed all the loopholes, including the ones Al pointed out above, the numbers don't add up. Romney assumes the government will take in more tax money from projected revenue growth. His opinion. Romney also assumes this revenue will be generated by his projected growth in GDP. His opinion.

The difference? Economists work with numbers. Romney works with opinions.

The CBO won't score Romney's tax plan because they won't work on assumptions.

October 4, 2012 at 10:15 a.m.
Salsa said...

“You may want to move onto another topic.” LOL

October 4, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Backwater, ever heard of the Laffer Curve? "You may want to move on to another topic"

October 4, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Backwater: No academic discipline offers more divergent opinions than Economics. Fact, not opinion.

ALPO: Yeah, the big bird issue is a game changer. You're reaching. Don't strain anything.

October 4, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.
jdavid said...

Idea for our favorite cartoonist-- Romney and friends riding to the hounds chasing Big Bird.

October 4, 2012 at 10:47 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Cry me a river alpo. By the way, I hope you washed your hands before picking those popcorn hulls from your "teeth" last night.

Obama added trillion dollar deficits every one of his four short years while golfi...er..I mean in office. That's your plan for success?

October 4, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Chris Matthews Freaks Out At Obama: "What Was He Doing?"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/03/chris_matthews_freaks_out_at_obama_after_debate_romney_was_winning.html

"We have our knives out," Matthews said, admitting his network is trying their best to defend Obama and his policies".

What media bias?

October 4, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama has literally backed himself into a corner. After four years, NOW he has a plan to right a listing economy. All Romney has to say every time Obama proposes one of his schemes is, "you had four years and NOW you claim to have all the answers". End of argument.

October 4, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

mymy, that pic should be on every billboard the Romney campaign can afford. That is awesome.

October 4, 2012 at 11:23 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

like his (Romney's) refusal to release his own personal tax returns.

Alprova...he hid his returns under Obama's college transcripts and other sealed documents. Do you suspect he cheated on his taxes? Where is the IRS if he cheated or did he just use every screwed up thing cpngress has provided to reduce taxes? Gary Johnson has a good answer to all the tax issues.

October 4, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

DNC AD: ROMNEY WASN'T NICE ENOUGH TO OUR GUY!

Maybe Romney was still a little upset being called a racist, a murderer, a tax cheat......

October 4, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Wait until Ryan wipes the floor with Biden. That's going to be one for the ages.

October 4, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.
mymy said...

Toes: The DNC ad was pathetic.

O got more minutes to ramble.

October 4, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
patriot1 said...

The internet creator is always good for a laugh. Could he have meant attitude instead of altitude? What a joke that algore!!!

October 4, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

mymy said... “A picture is worth a thousand words:” http://washingtonexaminer.com/photo-president-obama-and-first-lady-appear-stunned-after-first-debate/article/2509824

“We had a Uhs count party and you had to take a shot of beer after every Uh. I missed the last 79 minutes of the debate.”

October 4, 2012 at 11:49 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I have been told that the “Uhs” make leftists think Obama is thoughtful and measures his statements carefully. They must have thought he looked like a genius last night.

October 4, 2012 at 11:56 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alprova observed: "I like firing big birds..." -- Mitt Romney.”

Yes, Romney does seem to be obsessed with this “firing” stuff. It’s like he can’t go anywhere without boasting about it, which is weird when you think about it. I think he needs to find something else that gives him joy. Anyway, I thought it was rather presumptious of him to be boasting about giving big bird and Jim Lehrer their pink slips at this stage of the game.

October 4, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

It was the altitude, that explains why he needed a teleprompter. His people should have had him there on vacation a week before the debate. Gary Johnson has climbed Everest and is very active so he would have prevailed for sure if he had been included. Obama must not be using the basketball facility we built for him.

October 4, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.
chatt_man said...

Obama may have looked like he was taking a dump in yesterday's cartoon (as mentioned in a post yesterday), but it looks now as if he waited for the debate to actually stink the place up.

October 4, 2012 at noon
TOES02800 said...

Happy anniversary Barry! Even though you didn't get any last night. Moochelle demands to remain in the life she has become accustom to.

She just had that look. like the, "If you lose this election and I lose my 757, WE'RE DONE"!!

Oh well. He'll always have his presidential library. Even though every book will be fiction.

October 4, 2012 at noon
TOES02800 said...

rockymountainoyster says: WHAAAAAH. WHAAAAAH.

October 4, 2012 at 12:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

toes said.....

Wait until Ryan wipes the floor with Biden. That's going to be one

for the ages.

Don't sell Biden short. He won't let the need to be accurate deter him nor will he hesitate to interrupt or create his own statistics. He may be a buffoon but he is a long term politician, his only and greatest talent is being a politician.

October 4, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.

LOL, harp3339, attacks Biden for the idea of being inaccurate, against Ryan?

C'mon, you think Ryan will strive for accuracy, that Ryan won't create his own statistics?

If you believe that, I'll sell you a bridge in Alaska.

But what could Jim Lehrer have done? He could have asked better questions and demanded better answers. He could have said "No, shut up to both of them" and shown he cared about moderating.

Instead he just sat there, doing nothing, and asking lame questions of no importance.

But hey, do keep showing how you believe without question everything Mitt Romney promises you.

That said, I do think Obama could have been more aggressive and assertive. He could have challenged Romney on his lies. He could have asked Mitt Romney if Paul Ryan hasn't explained the math on that "Medicare cut" to him, he could have asked Mitt Romney why he thought Solyndra was so bad and yet it was China's actions in flooding the market with low-cost solar panels, not the company itself.

I suspect he wasn't prepared. Maybe he should have been shown the list of lies found here, and the actual responses.

Oh well, you can believe the suave and genteel Romney as he promises you the sky, but me? I know better, and I hope Americans recognize his Etch-A-Sketch attempt for what it was.

October 4, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

How frigg'n irrelevant does Bennett's cartoon look today?

It is pretty darn hard to be germane when you refuse to deal with the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Poor Clay.

October 4, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.
degage said...

Poor Al, Happy, Mira,raygunz,ibsham,and ike, are so brainwashed they can't see anything but the fog Obama has pulled over them. Even Chris matthews got it last night, His tingle is gone.

October 4, 2012 at 12:30 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

CLAY, YOU FINALLY NAILED ONE!

It's like a bad TV show, but when you wake up it's real.

October 4, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
moonpie said...

BRP,

I bet Clay's cartoon was already finished before the debate, the way putting things like this together goes. Perhaps the tag line was written late, but I agree with others that I was not terribly impressed with Lehrer.

I was most impressed with Romney.

He really sidestepped Obama by moving to the middle last night. I don't think Obama knew how to handle him. If the debates had been courtroom arguments, Romney had the edge. He may not have had all the facts on his side, but he did a far superior job at presenting his case than the president did.

I don't agree with every thing either candidate says, or every position they hold. I agree with more of what Obama says than Romney, but Romney won the debate.

Obama let Romney and Republicans completely off the hook on the issue of partisanship. Romney touted his nearly identical health care plan as a success and brilliantly used it as an example of his ability to reach across the isle. The president said he used Republican ideas in his plan, but completely failed to mention the publicly announced Republican strategy of those days to oppose EVERYTHING the president was for. He should have hammered that point home.

Despite misrepresentations which occur in these debates, I will say that Romney sounded better prepared, more confident, looked more confident and actually moved to the center and therefore sounded much more reasonable than he has during the primaries or on the campaign trail.

It's not a knockout, no matter if he's right or wrong more of his facts, Round 1 went to Romney.

October 4, 2012 at 1 p.m.
rolando said...

It isn't bad enough The Loser sucked last night...now this one points out his incompetence in foreign affairs [read appeasement]. The hits just keep on comin'.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/10/02/whoa_obama_administration_denied_repeated_requests_for_increased_security_in_benghazi

[Kudos to mymy for the cites.]

October 4, 2012 at 1:14 p.m.
rolando said...

Bet this thread is quickly superseded. Can't have the conservatives taking over Clay's pitiful efforts in protecting the unprotectable...The One must have spent time in Libya.

October 4, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Bulbous: BHO (blessings upon his name) was a victim of his own fawning minions, and the adoring MSM. All that butt-kissing made him think he was immune to any real challenge. He mailed it in. Admit it man. Will be more of the same next time, as I believe the man is secure in his little exalted bubble. Teleprompter, teleprompter. My kingdom for a teleprompter. hehehe

October 4, 2012 at 1:26 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

moonpie said... “I bet Clay's cartoon was already finished before the debate”

I am sure it was, and we can rest assured that Clay would not even consider penning a relevant cartoon that could be used in the event of last night’s outcome.

A person’s paradigm has everything to do with how they view the world and what they interpret as truth and lies. It is certainly no surprise that someone who would agree with Obama’s beliefs would view the challenges to those ideas coming from a completely contrary belief system as nothing but lies.

That is why discussions like we find on this forum often seem so pointless. It is extremely rare to find a moment when someone is willing to actually listen and challenge their own beliefs.

The question that keeps nagging at me is whether Romney really believes the things that he says. Will he really use the “is it worth going into debt to the Chinese” metric for everything? If he really believed that and that our current debt accumulation is immoral he would not be willing to consider still having a deficit 3 years after the election.

October 4, 2012 at 1:45 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Points for Bennett's next toon: 1. Moderator was racist. 2. Teleprompter was stolen by racists. 3. BHO tired from stresses of job. 4. Not a good forum for BHO. 5. BHO's Fruit of the Looms were too tight. 6. BHO was thinking about that pesky slice.

October 4, 2012 at 2:03 p.m.
fairmon said...

happybulbssaid...

But hey, do keep showing how you believe without question everything Mitt Romney promises you.

Apparently you didn't read my post. I don't think you can find where I suggest I believe or support either of them nor did I say Ryan would be accurate but Biden may be better at B.S.ing than he is credited with.

repeated so you quit jumping to conclusions just because of what I think of Obama:

hwtnb......this snake oil salesman statement applies to both candidates. I wouldn't believe or trust Obama if he were injected with a truth serum, he is a political chameleon. Gary Johnson could have made the debates much more interesting.

October 4, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.
fairmon said...

Obama finally figured out the one on one he was going to Denver for wasn't basketball but a discussion of tough issues without a sympathetic media lpbbing him softball questions.

Romney supporters should realize Obama was just ropa doping last night. He sparred enough to see Romney's hand and strategy. He didn't need to take the swings he could have. Hold on to your rear now that he has felt Romney out. The smear ads will start coming on strong and the next two debates will reveal the real Obama who will hit below the belt if need be. He has more than enough money, a sympathetic and supportive media, and two more debates with the final one being where he does the dirty work when there is little time to repair or recover from the damage. The Chicago gang is ruthless when they want something they could not care less who or what gets damaged or hurt.

October 4, 2012 at 2:31 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I have NEVER seen the media carry water for a president like they do for Obama. Stunning! Pravda could not do a better job for the old USSR since everyone at least knew that it was run by the government. Many people in this country still believe that is not the case in the good ole US of A.

October 4, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
mzungu said...

"Etch-A-Sketch" Romney. That about says it all.

I wonder if this guy can also predict the PowerBall #s with the identical accuracy? Everything, and I do mean everything he said is the way it unfolded last night.

Amazing!

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/oct/03/mitts-next-big-reveal/

October 4, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
mymy said...

LOL

"Obama, at a Denver rally Thursday afternoon complete with teleprompters, ripped into Romney as he tried to brush himself off and reassure supporters."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/04/obama-campaign-conducts-damage-control-in-wake-debate/#ixzz28MBl5udT

October 4, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.
jesse said...

As i have said on here before i will prob.vote for Obama BUT I AIN'T REAL HAPPY w/my choices! BUT what REALLY cranks my handle is how ALL them Obama TRUE BELIEVERS are trying to find a escape hatch to the fact that Romney ripped Obamas azz last night!

October 4, 2012 at 2:46 p.m.
mzungu said...

One thing I am disaapointed with BO about is that last night he refused to call out Romney on one of many obvious contradictions . . .

How is it that Romney sudddenly fashions himself as some kind of "champion" for the America's midle-class and as someone who would cut their taxes?

Obama should have jumped all over the fact that residents of Massachusetts pay THE highest taxes of ANY state in the U.S., bar none.

More than NJ and even more than NY. People are fleeing Massachusetts in droves for nearby states like New Hampshire and Rhode Island. The middle-class in MA are taxed to death and quite simply can't afford to live there anymore.

Good 'ol Mittens, the newfound Champion of the Middle-Class.

At least this week.

Next week?

Who knows?

Shake the Etch-A-Sketch and see what unfolds.

October 4, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
mzungu said...

Obama had plenty of opportunities to rip into Romney last night but didn't. What would that have really accomplished? The people who support Romney are still going to vote for him and the people who support Obama are still going to vote for him; regardless of who was perceived to have won last night's debate.

Obama knows he's very close to winning the Electoral College and really only needs one swing state to fall his way to wrap up re-election. While Mittens was firing away, Obama remained outwardly cool, reserved, and well "Presidential" last night.

I think it's safe to say that the President's advisors basically told him "let Romney take his shots and don't demean yourself by attacking back. Take the high road."

October 4, 2012 at 2:58 p.m.
tipper said...

Romney is a slick talker--no doubt. I give him the debate on style points but not subtance. But I still wouldn't buy a used car from this guy. The debates are only for the approximately 7% of undecided voters. The two directions that each wants to take the country could not be more clear. If you don't know for whom you are voting by now, you must be living under a rock. A lot of money will be spent over the next month for a small percentage of voters. At best, those votes will split down the middle for each candidate. The next town hall debate will be different. The people will ask tough questions and probably not be fooled pivoting or vague answers. That will be tougher on Romney because they will want details. Romney's glibness will not hold up there. And old Joe Biden will crucify Ryan on middle class values and needs.

October 4, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.
mymy said...

What you saw last night was a smart man who took notes while the amateur spoke and had a response ready all while listening. Then he turned around and kicked butt checking off one item at a time. O was doing his time killing talk, talk talk saying nothing but same old talking points. At times he made no sense.

Obama is back on the trail with his teleprompter full of excuses and the help, of course, the MSM. The brain dead Obama Cult are the only ones who can’t see through the fog.

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 4, 2012 at 3:25 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

mymy 3:25: about sums it up, my.

October 4, 2012 at 3:47 p.m.
miraweb said...

Best schools, best health care, and the worst weather.

When people flee Massachusetts it is for Florida, not Rhode Island.

Trust me.

October 4, 2012 at 4:03 p.m.
miraweb said...

And a quick "Factiness" check:

Along with all that health care and education, the personal income tax rate in MA is actually about in the middle (Ranking: 23):

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/10/pf/taxes/state_tax_rates/index.htm

October 4, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
mymy said...

Palin beat Biden: enough said!!

October 4, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.
mzungu said...

Uh huh. Now couple that with Property Taxes, sales tax, vehicle tax, etc etc etc

October 4, 2012 at 4:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

Even with the "steady-freddy" debate performance, Gallup has a 4 point bounce in Obama's approval rating - now up to 54% - his highest since 2009.

The math may be that all Obama has to do to win is not mess up. For Romney to win, he still has to convince the independent voters amoung the "47%" that he can be trusted with the job.

Tomorrow's polls should be interesting.

October 4, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.

harp3339, actually, what I've noticed is the one-sidedness of your remarkness. It's been consistent over weeks and months and numerous posts.

You complain about one side for many things, but a resounding silence has been noted on other others. That's your problem, you blame me for jumping to conclusions, but never take your own words into account.

That's why you claim to be independent and non-partisan, but it's obvious that you're not.

At least admit you've taken a side.

Either that, or learn to cast your net more widely.

Or just continue to be indignant, which convinces me that I'm right.

BRP, the only plan that has been proposed by a politician that eliminates the deficit, and begins paying off the Debt was one of Pat Toomey's. I'm pretty sure, it got less than 30 votes when it was put before the Senate, possibly less than 20.

October 4, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

happywithnewbulbs said... "the only plan that has been proposed by a politician that eliminates the deficit, and begins paying off the Debt was one of Pat Toomey's. I'm pretty sure, it got less than 30 votes when it was put before the Senate, possibly less than 20."

Yes, I know! That is why I am so skeptical about any real resolve when it comes to fixing that problem. I have this feeling that Washington will continue to do show votes and complain about the other side until it is in crisis. At that point we will be facing a choice between debt default or rampant printing of money and the inflation that goes along with it.

Christ, we are probably already in the rampant printing of money stage and just don’t know it. Is this the real source of resistance to auditing the Fed? Do the politicos know that if we saw the magnitude of the expansion of the money supply that there would be a collapse of the dollar?

October 4, 2012 at 5:18 p.m.
limric said...

If Obama performs in the upcoming debates as he did last night Romney will probably vote for him out of pity.

The only things missing were Obama putting his head down and saying "I'm sorry"- and most importantly, Jim Lerher standing up and saying "SHUT UP!"

Pathetic.

October 4, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.
chatt_man said...

tu_quoque asks "Where are all of the blow hard Libtards ??" Then BRP starts his last paragraph out with "Christ".

If that doesn't bring them out in this agnostic, atheist filled forum, nothing will. Then we'll know if tu was right about that rock they're under.

October 4, 2012 at 5:48 p.m.

Like many have said, take away the teleprompter and he's just an empty suit, and not a very bright one. I could've done better than that arguing for a bunch of crap I don't even believe in. What an arrogant jerk, he looked bored and looked as if he was doing us a favor by just gracing us with his presence. No wonder he avoids news conferences, and facing tough questions. Loser.

October 4, 2012 at 5:51 p.m.
fairmon said...

bulbs said...

harp3339...You complain about one side for many things, but a resounding silence has been noted on other others. That's your problem, you blame me for jumping to conclusions, but never take your own words into account.

Let me assure you again, I can't stand Obama and his ideology. I would bet when teaching all his students received a C+ since he insisted on the achievers sharing with the under achievers. His plans will continue moving this formerly great industrialized nation to a services only economy creating no wealth but taking from each other with government eventually having all the wealth and leaving the citizens all equally impoverished.

I have repeatedly said I will support Gary Johnson and would have supported Ron Paul. Romney may slow the demise but there is not sufficient difference between the two to get excited about. They had a hard time identifying and describing their differences. In my opinion Obama supporters are selfish, greedy, naive and misguided with an Ostrich mentality unwilling to face reality that would prefer a country club management style. Other than that they are OK.

October 4, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
joneses said...

Thank you Hussein Obama for proving what the intelligent people of America have known you to be. An incompetent, pathological liar that lacks leadership abilities and cannot stand on his own without the assistance of the media protecting your sorry pathetic ass. What is amazing is the fools in this country still praise him as a celebrity. For your information liberals the president of the United States should be known for his leadership abilities, not as a celebrity and Hussein Obama has no leadership abilities or economic wisdom as proven last night. Hussein Obama has proven again he is a pathological liar.

October 4, 2012 at 6:09 p.m.
fairmon said...

You know, if by some miracle Obama doesn't win the election he can still blame George Bush for his loss. I do hope he sets a record that will never be broken which is to increase the debt to levels that are almost equal to the total debt of all those before him.

October 4, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.

LOL, Biden will crucify Ryan? The sole of one of Ryan's shoes has more brains than Biden!

October 4, 2012 at 6:38 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Keep going mira! Remember Arkansas was one of the worst states in the country in just about every category. Yet you creamed your jeans for Clinton. There goes mira, justa bippity-bopping down liberal lane with those blinders on.

Face it, with these blazing liberals, there's absolutely NOTHING Obama could do wrong. ever!

October 4, 2012 at 6:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

odds are Plug Biden calls in sick for Veep debate.

October 4, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I, for my part, hope-a-dope to hell that Obama was rope-a-doping last night. I haven't winced this much since Dukakis took the tank ride. Never has my avatar been so apt. I am concussed. I feel as though I've been discovered on a crowded city street molesting a scantily clothed mannequin. As though my Whippet just suffered projectile diarrhea all over the Westminster Dog Show arena. I have hair coveralls instead of a hair shirt. I have scratched on the 8 ball playing emotional pool. I just hope that you all can find it in your hearts to... realize that the President will be reelected.

October 4, 2012 at 7:59 p.m.
Oz said...

The New York Times nailed it.......... President Xanax.

October 4, 2012 at 8:07 p.m.
ricardo said...

Mitt Romney's math doesn't add up. $5 trillion in tax cuts does not equal a balanced budget, not without a lot of pain for the non-wealthy, working people.

October 4, 2012 at 8:10 p.m.
patriot1 said...

The noise behind the stage last night that caused Obama to turn around was Plouffe trying to throw in the white towel and Axelrod stopping. If this had been a fight as Bennett depicted in an earlier toon, the fight would have been stopped well short of 90 minutes.

October 4, 2012 at 8:18 p.m.
Oz said...

I thought Clay would redraw that cartoon today with Romney as an MMA Fighter.

October 4, 2012 at 8:31 p.m.
ricardo said...

Nothing Romney lied about changed my mind: I'm staying with Obama.

October 4, 2012 at 8:36 p.m.
Oz said...

Still waiting on those prescription drug price negotiations on C-SPAN.

October 4, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.
alprova said...

Are you Romney rooters about done? Have you climaxed yet?

I've been crunching polls all day, and despite Romney winning the first debate last night, and all you folks thinking that the election is over for the President, I'm sorry to annunce that there has been no movement in the polls.

The President is still leading in the key battleground states, with the exception of North Carolina, which has been going back and forth over the past two weeks. Romney leads by a half-point.

The President is still on track to realize 294 electoral votes and Mitt Romney is still on track to realize 191 electoral votes, the same amount he has been holding onto for two months.

Remember that 270 is the magic number.

Okay...please return to giving each other those mental massages and don't forget to use your rubbers.

October 4, 2012 at 9:24 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

I've been crunching polls all day

WHY may I ask? Will the poll results cause you to say or do something? Will the polls cause you to change how you vote? Will they result in your sending a sizable contribution to your favorite candidate? The polls may benefit the candidates in adjusting their campaign messages or help them decide how they will spend their time and resources. Those of us not involved, other than voting, don't benefit from polls other than feeling good or bad about our selected candidate. It would seem any candidate that can get on the ballot in all 50 states should be included in the debates.

October 4, 2012 at 9:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "WHY may I ask?"

It's a third source of income that I have had since July of 2010.

"Will the poll results cause you to say or do something?"

No, but they do allow me some keen insight to what is going on out there.

"Will the polls cause you to change how you vote?"

No...I'm all set.

"Will they result in your sending a sizable contribution to your favorite candidate?"

Nope. Done that already.

"The polls may benefit the candidates in adjusting their campaign messages or help them decide how they will spend their time and resources. Those of us not involved, other than voting, don't benefit from polls other than feeling good or bad about our selected candidate. It would seem any candidate that can get on the ballot in all 50 states should be included in the debates."

I'm with you there, but it's not my call.

October 4, 2012 at 10:49 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

^^^^Just gives you one more excuse to run that mouth, huh ALPO? What a gasbag.

October 4, 2012 at 11:08 p.m.
rick1 said...

ricardo said "Mitt Romney's math doesn't add up. $5 trillion in tax cuts does not equal a balanced budget, not without a lot of pain for the non-wealthy, working people."

At 8:36pm you said "Nothing Romney lied about changed my mind: I'm staying with Obama."

You are the one who is lying. Your statement about Romney and $5 trillion in tax cuts is a lie.

http://freebeacon.com/stephanie-cutter-admits-the-5-trillion-tax-cut-is-not-true/

October 4, 2012 at 11:10 p.m.

BigRidgePatriot, of course they won't solve anything, that would mean they'd not be able to run complaining about problems!

harp3339, your complaint about Obama's teacher is itself demonstrative of your position. You'd rather come up with a zinger like that than substance.

Besides, you think Obama has anything to do with why industrialization is no longer king? I'm afraid you're lacking in substance to your analysis there. That was happening decades before he took office, and if it happens, it won't be the gov't getting the wealth from the people, it'll be certain people instead. The ones you want us to beholden to. Without even realizing it.

Everything you say about what you believe Obama supporters are like? I'd apply that to you. Either that, or I'd consider you a Chicken Little worrying about a rock that hit you, and being told that you need to do just what a certain tricky fox wants you to do to save you.

Too bad that hysteria is just an attempt to get what they want from you. But you're too naive to realize that.

ricardo, it's the Republican fairy dust, they cut tax rates, and the economy magically grows, so they can suddenly pay for everything. It really works...in their minds.

October 4, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.
raygunz said...
October 4, 2012 at 11:25 p.m.
fairmon said...

regarding his crunching of poll numbers alprova responded with....

Harp3339 wrote: "WHY may I ask?"

It's a third source of income that I have had since July of 2010.

Thanks for the response. I can't imagine why anyone would pay for it but it is a perfectly good reason, by all means keep on crunching.

October 5, 2012 at 3:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

A wounded politician is more dangerous than a wounded lion. The attacks without regard for fall out or collateral damage will be more than Romney supporters can imagine much less cope with or defend against. Look for the beginning on the Sunday talk shows.

Monday polls may show a temporary blip up for Romney and his supporters before the full blown negative attacks begin then it may be over for them. It is the only strategy that works since there is no record or recent Obama leadership trends to really brag about.

I liked Obama's swipe at his ego equal Donald Trump who is still smarting because he wasn't invited to speak at the convention.

Gary Johnson isn't getting to participate in the debates so it would be fair to have him be the moderator and ask the two candiates questions.

October 5, 2012 at 3:46 a.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "You are the one who is lying. Your statement about Romney and $5 trillion in tax cuts is a lie."

Mitt Romney has presented his incomplete tax plan, and thus far, all we know that he has proposed is a 20% tax cut across the board, the elimination of the estate tax, a further lowering of the capital gains tax, and a 20% lowering of the corporate tax rates as well.

As presented, his proposal to lower all those rates total $5 trillion over ten years.

Now he says that he will institute the closing of "loopholes", tax deductions, and tax credits to offset the lowering of those taxes and to keep his plan "deficit nuetral," but there is absolutely no way to arrive at $5 trillion in revenue without cutting out deductions that most definitely will raise the effective tax rates for the middle class.

Without Mitt providing the details as to how he intends to pay for his tax proposal, all he has proposed is a tax cut that most definitely adds $5 trillion to deficit spending.

Mitt cannot deliver on his promise and he knows it. There are several tax analysis firms that have tried to calculate his proposal claims, and every one of them come up woefully short of delivering the goods.

Not only do they not prevent further deficit spending, his tax plan does nothing to provide a penny to tackle the national debt, which is another one of his promises.

He and his running mate have both provided tax plans that assume a booming economy to produce extra revenue flowing into the Gov't as a result of tax cuts, and as we all know and can clearly be proven, tax cuts have not delivered that booming economy over the last decade.

Mitt is full of s**t.

October 5, 2012 at 5:24 a.m.
ricardo said...

Also, don't forget that Romney also wants to INCREASE military spending by $2 trillion, further blowing a hole in the deficit. He does not say how he will pay for this either.

October 5, 2012 at 5:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Thanks for the response. I can't imagine why anyone would pay for it but it is a perfectly good reason, by all means keep on crunching."

Harp, I work part-time for a local arm of a firm that conducts telephone polls nationwide. I am paid a very decent sum to crunch the results and to certify the data collected.

National political polls and health care satisfaction surveys are a big chunk of the firm's business.

October 5, 2012 at 5:42 a.m.
ricardo said...

happynewbulbs said: "ricardo, it's the Republican fairy dust, they cut tax rates, and the economy magically grows, so they can suddenly pay for everything. It really works...in their minds."

Bush cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 and the economy sputtered along, job growth was anemic, and it all culminated in the worst recession since the 1930's. The deficit also ballooned. TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK. Businesses are not hiring because their taxes are too high. They are not hiring because there is not enough economic demand for their products and services. People without jobs do not pay taxes, so cutting taxes does not help them, and it does not give them any extra discretionary income.

October 5, 2012 at 5:51 a.m.
ricardo said...

When Romney promises to end world hunger by cutting tax rates by 20% across the board, while at the same time, increasing military spending by $2 trillion, all without increasing the deficit, you have to ask yourself "What is he smoking?". Where are the details? This is the same magic math that Bush used and it does not add up. Someone has to pay for all this, and he has already said that it won't be the wealthy. His lack of disclosure on this topic makes him untrustworthy. WHERE ARE THE CUTS GOING TO COME FROM, MR. ROMNEY? DETAILS PLEASE. WE DESERVE TO KNOW.

October 5, 2012 at 6:04 a.m.
fairmon said...

Debate response to the CNBC question of who won the debate:

o 83,398 responses

o 69% Romney

o 21% Obama

o 9% neither

Doesn't add to 100 due to rounding. The debate is now history and is no longer relevant.

October 5, 2012 at 6:26 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Rick1 said to Ricardo: "You are the one who is lying. Your statement about Romney and $5 trillion in tax cuts is a lie."

Well, Rick1, you obviously haven’t made a visit to Romney’s website. If you had, you would note that Romney’s statement, “First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don't have a tax cut of a scale that you're talking about," is not factual.

At least according to Romney's own website . . . where he proposes to do the following:

Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates

Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains

Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains

Eliminate the Death Tax

Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax

October 5, 2012 at 6:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

What neither candidate is addressing because people don't understand it and don't want to hear it.

The FED is perpetually printing fiat money and reducing the value of the dollar against other currencies.

The FED cannot raise interest rates because interest on the debt would take a bigger chunk of budget dollars creating the need to add more debt plus cause real estate to go down more and reduce business investment borrowing.

Creeping inflation and energy cost have reduced consumer buying power therefore demand.

Recent PPI numbers are at the highest level in years indicating inflation will be going higher.

Any tax increase will reduce spending and investing therefore rising unemployment and eventually decreased tax revenue resulting in more entitlement and safety net demands.

Instead of addressing these issues neither candidate has a plan to balance the budget over the next ten years. Both suggest they will slow the growth of the debt with a smaller annual deficit with promises of no sacrifice or hardships for anyone. If not now when? If not us who and how? The once greatest nation on earth is now the largest debtor in the world and broke without admitting it.

October 5, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.
conservative said...

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1John1:6

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..

October 5, 2012 at 7:39 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 claims: “The once greatest nation on earth is now the largest debtor in the world and broke without admitting it.” AND “Any tax increase will reduce spending and investing therefore rising unemployment and eventually decreased tax revenue resulting in more entitlement and safety net demands.”

I disagree, Harp3339. I think lots of people know what is occurring . . . They're also willing to admit how we got there, which is something I suspect that you can't do.

“In early 2001, Paul O’Neill, the new Treasury secretary, began work on a plan for radical tax reform. He wanted simpler forms and fewer deductions, which would make it easy for people to prepare their taxes and cost the government less to process them. He presented a five-inch-thick binder of research to a senior White House official.

“Don’t ever let that see the light of day,” O’Neill says he was told. President George W. Bush didn’t want to deliver a tax overhaul. He wanted to deliver the tax cuts he’d promised as a candidate, Bloomberg Businessweek reports in its Aug. 6 issue.

He did, in 2001 and then again in 2003. Yet the kinds of cuts he’d promised -- large ones -- would create unsustainable deficits after 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office projected. So they were designed to expire in a decade, at least on paper.

It was “baloney,” says O’Neill, who publicly supported them at the time. Republicans never intended to let the cuts lapse. “It was put in there so they could make a fiscal claim that it wouldn’t damage us. It had nothing to do with reality.”

It’s now more than 10 years later, and Bush’s tax cuts are still with us -- adding to the debt as predicted. The temporary tax cuts have become a subsidy, and as with all subsidies, to take them away is to create a period of painful readjustment.

Politicians worry about the “fiscal cliff” -- the economic turmoil waiting at year’s end when deep federal spending cuts go into effect and the tax cuts lapse -- as though no one could have seen it coming. There is nothing we know now that we didn’t already know a decade ago."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-02/fiscal-cliff-crisis-rooted-in-senate-ploy-to-pass-bush-tax-cuts

October 5, 2012 at 7:58 a.m.
mymy said...

32 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 5, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said.....

I disagree, Harp3339. I think lots of people know what is occurring . . . They're also willing to admit how we got there, which is something I suspect that you can't do.

What is it you disagree with? I know how we got where we are. In addition to the cuts there were unfunded programs and wars. How we got there and why is not as important as what we do now with the dilemma described.

Your response included... It’s now more than 10 years later, and Bush’s tax cuts are still with us -- adding to the debt as predicted. The temporary tax cuts have become a subsidy, and as with all subsidies, to take them away is to create a period of painful readjustment.

Politicians worry about the “fiscal cliff” -- the economic turmoil waiting at year’s end when deep federal spending cuts go into effect and the tax cuts lapse -- as though no one could have seen it coming. There is nothing we know now that we didn’t already know a decade ago."

This is true. Are you suggesting we accept the painful readjustment and let the current tax rates expire. I have advocated that before and you disagreed with that. At times it appears you disagree so you can rattle on with a criticism of anything republican which I don't disagree with but I do disagree when you tell me how great democrats are. They are equally bad and have made it impossible for a third party to challenge them. Gary Johnson would be a better choice than either of them.

October 5, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: Nice to know that the "certifier" of poll data is a neutral observer like yourself.

October 5, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.
alprova said...

"Jobless rate falls to 7.8 percent in September, as Obama looks for boost"

Poor Mitt. This is horrible news for him and all the other Republicans. All those jabs the night before last at the President about jobs were for naught.

The Dow, much to Harp's dismay, has risen 63 points already today as a result of the news.

With 31 days to go, is there anyone out there that truly thinks that Romney and Ryan have a thing to offer that will stand up to the credibility test when either one of them say that an Obama reelection is a bad prospect for this nation?

Don't get me wrong. The news does not indicate that the nation is experiencing a boom, by any stretch of the imagination, but the numbers indicate that we are indeed still on the right path to recovery. People all over the nation, who have not made up their minds are going to be mulling over the prospect of staying with what is working, or delving into the unknown.

CNN is reporting that Republicans are already whining that the number must be wrong and that the Gov't must have manipulated them. The workers at the BLS are Obama supporters.

Hilarious!!! In light of nearly four years of tepid numbers, this flies in the face of pure common sense. Did the Obama administration suddenly fire everyone over at the BLS and replace them?

Incredible....simple incredible. Pathetic. Desperate.

Mitt's already released his spin on the news. Comical.

Bye-bye Mitt and Paul...Sorry to see you both have to return to your home states in defeat. Will Mitt make a run for it in '16?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/05/jobless-rate-falls-to-78-percent-in-september/

October 5, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.
alprova said...

"ALPO: Nice to know that the "certifier" of poll data is a neutral observer like yourself."

Not that I owe you a response to that stupid comment, my work contains not an ounce of bias, nor could it. Everything has a trail that would bounce right back on me if I attempted to manipulate so much as one figure.

I check, recheck, and check again, because my reputation as an accountant depends on accuracy. My signature does not go on anything that is not 100% accurate.

October 5, 2012 at 10 a.m.
mzungu said...

Etch-A-Sketch is now saying he "was completely wrong" about his 47% comment. Gee, I wonder why the timing of his admission is only now? Could it be merely "damage control" in advance of the upcoming Town Hall debate? What a coincidence.

He's a piece of work.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/04/romney-on-47-comments-i-was-completely-wrong/

October 5, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: What a guy!!!

October 5, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
mymy said...

Al: Bet the numbers will be revised. The numbers do not add up. Only 114,000 new jobs, but 800,000 more employed. Most of those temp job.

The Obama Cult cannot not see through the fog of Obama lies.

October 5, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
timbo said...

happywithnewbrains.....I didn't know that Moccasin Bend would let an inmate on the internet.

October 5, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO = Turbo Tax man. Bwahahahaha His company motto: Turbo Tax with an attitude!

October 5, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

timbo: Bulbs is just a frustrated art major.

October 5, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
jesse said...

If i was a hide bound ,dyed in the wool,tunnel visioned, do or die Obama advocate like some on here i would be starting to PUCKER UP somewhat! If Obama loses he can prob. blame it in that SMIRK! It's time for him to realize it's time to take things SERIOUS! Mitts has been his own worst enemy, Obama don't need to take a page outta that book!

October 5, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_, Your posts would make a newcomer mistakenly think that you were a child, when in reality you get old every single day. Are you one of those 'disabled' mailbox checkers that are sprinkled throughout suburbia?

October 5, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
jesse said...

Hey jack,Bulbs is an old fart w/too much time on his hands and a bad attitude! He is gonna get in EVERYBODYS face no matter what! He got too old to THINK 20 years ago and gits all his exercise by flying off the handle! BTW: dude is his twin brother!! Dude actually makes Bulbs look like he has walkin around sense!!

October 5, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
rick1 said...

Jack, do you think Al checked, rechecked and checked again the fgigures from this poll conducted by the Washington Post?

“Out of 929 registered voters in the new poll, 161 live in one of these eight states, with a margin of sampling error of eight points.”

fhttp://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/328983/iwashington-posti-has-sample-size-problem

October 5, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
dude_abides said...

rick1 said... "Jack, do you think Al checked, rechecked and checked again the fgigures from this poll conducted by the Washington Post?" LOL

It's fun to point out hypocrites. You can't write a sentence like that and not proofread... you just can't!

October 5, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
degage said...

Numbers don't add up, last month 142,000 added and the percent went down 1 point, only 114,000 this month and it goes down 3 points. Oh thats right last month 368000 dropped out of the job market, so how many had to drop out this month to make that kind of numbers,600,000? Chicago math is what the administration is using. He said as much in the debate. " Its math."

October 5, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.

Ah, the quality of the posting here continues to demonstrate the character of so many people.

Too bad the TFP will never do anything constructively about it.

alprova, Ryan and Romney has as much credibility as the posters here who can't even try to remain decorous.

BTW, did anybody notice that Romney complained about 20+ million out of work, but only promised 12 million new jobs?

Now how's that work?

October 5, 2012 at 11:25 a.m.
jesse said...

BULBS, if this place EVER gits serious about upgrading the level of dialog on here YOU ,dude, nooga, jonsses,easy123.and 3 or 4 more are gonna be HISTORY!!

October 5, 2012 at 11:41 a.m.
dude_abides said...

jesse, every single one of your posts is a cacaphony. Do you, by any chance, wear suspenders? You don't strike me as the type of person who would let discipline, cleanliness or order creep into tour clap trap existence. Your stream of consciousness meanderings evoke a pinball machine with bad wiring, in which half the lights and buzzers don't work. Stay frosty, brother.

October 5, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
jesse said...

Dude,i kinda try to fit in with the level of intelligence i find when i drop in on a site! On here i find there or 3 or 4 levels and you and your cohorts on both side of the spectrum are almost too low on the strati to relate to!Cheers dude, you gonna needum! For you of all on here to accuse me of that is LUDICROUS!!

BTW: i DO wear suspenders on occasion! WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO W?anything! SEE man ,you are all HUNG UP on stuff that means NOTHING!!

October 5, 2012 at 12:22 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Yeah dude_. One of those old suburbanite. We can't die off fast enough for you, can we?

October 5, 2012 at 12:29 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Wow, 7.8% and then this. Obama just retrieved Bin Laden from the bottom of the sea, reanimated his body and then killed him again -Dennis Miller

October 5, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: There's a job for you on the death panel.

October 5, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
dude_abides said...

If you're not getting a disability check, dishonestly, then you're okay with lil ole me, Jack_. I've been lovin' on the elderly since I was a kid, Jack_. That's part of why I'm a Democrat.

October 5, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

Bulbs -

Romney's 12 million jobs plan not only falls short - but it is the baseline of the jobs that the economy is expected to produce anyway - with or without Mitt's frozen half-smile.

As for the rest of the country:

"I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there." - Mitt Romney, January 2012

"My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." - Mitt Romney, May 2012

"I should tell my story. I'm also unemployed." - Mitt Romney, June 2011

October 5, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Not sure what I ("of all on here") accused you of, jesse. 'Stay frosty' is from "Generation Kill." It just means 'be cool.' LOL Even your 'Pain Management Dr.' probably knows that. Just kidding. Just kidding.

October 5, 2012 at 1:07 p.m.
mymy said...

Why Barrio is B.O. for short. It comes from the abundance of BS he puts out!

October 5, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.
mymy said...

Why Barrio is B.O. for short. It comes from the abundance of BS he puts out!

October 5, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.
miraweb said...

Mitt's problem is there is no issue left where the country trusts him more than the President. Handling the economy has now shifted to favor Obama.

Mitt was leading in unemployment, but this month's numbers, along with the upward revisions for the past two months aren't helping poor Mitt (even if they are helping everyone else).

To win, Mitt has to bet against the American economy. That is not a good strategy.

CNN Poll (Sep 28 - 30): Issue - Obama - Romney

The economy 49 - 48

.

Foreign Policy 52 - 45

.

Medicare 52 - 44

.

Deficit 43 - 51

.

Taxes 52 - 44

.

Health care 50 - 45

.

Immigration 51 - 47

.

Education 54 - 42

.

Unemployment 45 - 51

.

Housing 49 - 48

October 5, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 asked: “What is it you disagree with?

Well, Harp, I disagreed with your statement in which you said: “The once greatest nation on earth is now the largest debtor in the world and broke without admitting it.” I gave the examples of the Congressional Budget Office and former Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O’Neill, because they understood early on and predicted the effects of the tax cuts a decade ago.

Harp3339’s Claims Re Bush Tax Cuts: “let the current tax rates expire. I have advocated that before and you disagreed with that.”

Do you always just make things up, Harp3339? I’ve never advocated that we continue the Bush Tax cuts. To claim that I have done so is disingenuous.

Harp3339 said Re Democrats & Republicans: “They are equally bad and have made it impossible for a third party to challenge them. Gary Johnson would be a better choice than either of them.

I think you’re just giving lip service to libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, Harp3339. I’m basing my opinion on your word count. You’ve spent most of your time on this board either bashing Obama or peddling Romney’s talking points. For example, I don’t think I’ve ever read any post of yours that addresses Johnson’s argument in regard to U.S. military spending.

“US military spending is more than that of every other country combined. There's a culture of waste, fraud, and abuse in defense budgeting we simply can no longer tolerate. Defense spending must be subject to the same scrutiny as other areas of the budge.” [Gary Johnson, Libertarian Presidential Candidate]

So if you're really supporting Johnson, why haven't you addressed the above? Is it because Romney wants to increase military spending, but can't tell us how he is going to pay for it? And don't you find his proposal odd since he hasn't established a need? Aren't you even slightly concerned that his neo con advisors might be plotting another scam like they did with Iraq.

October 5, 2012 at 1:31 p.m.
jesse said...

Here ya go dude!! Cacophony:a harsh,discordant mixture of sounds! Had your avatar on the site! Just to give you a heads up!Of all the people on here to get in an uproar over "cacophony" you and bulbs are the last in LINE!!(and Easy 123!) No matter WHAT you think bullshat will NEVER overcome reality! we share an opinion on Obama BUT from two diametrically opposed views! To you he is the SAVIOR!To me he is the less of two idjits! AND if he keeps playing the fool i may start thinking Mitts is the less of the idiot!

October 5, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
jesse said...

Tqq. Dude is prob. the most opinionated ignoramus on here,maybe next to Bulbs! Nooga,jonsees,easy123 and miraweb are in the hunt! You on the other hand are workin on #1!Hang in there you will make it!!

October 5, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

jesse: But tu_ is funny. and frequently correct.

October 5, 2012 at 2:52 p.m.
TOES02800 said...
October 5, 2012 at 3:36 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Mzungu said: "Etch-A-Sketch is now saying he "was completely wrong" about his 47% comment. . . Could it be merely "damage control" in advance of the upcoming Town Hall debate? What a coincidence. He's a piece of work."

Yes, the “big flip-flopper” is a piece of work. Speaking of which, did you happen to catch that odd statement that Mitt Romney made about his sons during the debate? Mark Kleiman at the Reality Base site mentions it today:

“No one yet seems to have commented on possibly the weirdest moment of the debate: the first time Romney called Obama a liar . . . if you think about what he actually said, it just gets stranger and stranger:

"I got five boys. I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep on repeating it and ultimately hoping I’ll believe it."

Two points here:

1. Would a normal person call his five sons chronic liars on national TV?

2. If Tagg and the rest of the litter are in fact chronic liars, maybe they came by it naturally. Or maybe they learned it from watching their father.

http://www.samefacts.com/2012/10/lying-in-politics/gregor-mendel-please-call-your-office/

October 5, 2012 at 4:13 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

This administration is just FULL of coincidences! The new fake unemployment number is almost as coincidental as Al-Qaeda attacking our ambassador on 9/11 randomly because of a video.

Make no mistake, the job number's a fake.

One other thing, is it a stretch to suggest that Biden is an insurance policy on Obama's "health"?

Obama's all in for a $1 trillion tax! Alpo must be pleased!

October 5, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
mymy said...

For months we have been exposed to the Obama Chicago Thug Machine Campaign. I’m sick and tired of it and anybody on either side should be too. They have and are stooping to a new low which should make anyone suspicious—even the Obama Cult. Disgusting!

So the logical question becomes, what does this say about the president?

October 5, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

mountainoyster is out of touch. Anybody with kids in the real world knows that they try to pull the wool over their parents eyes. That's a fact of life there little miss reaching for anything.

Obama - teleprompter = run-of-the-mill lying Chicago thug spoon fed bully.

October 5, 2012 at 4:38 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama gets his asz handed to him by Mitt Romney and the next day the unemployment number magically drops to under 8%. HAHA!! Even some Obama supporters I know are laughing at that one. It makes Obama look even more desperate and pathetic than he already was.

October 5, 2012 at 4:43 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Romney had answers on his cuffs.

October 5, 2012 at 4:55 p.m.
mzungu said...

Let me see if I got this straight: if the unemmployment #s are negative, it's Obama's fault. If the unemployment #s are positive, it's Obama's fault because he cooked the books.

So according to all you TeaBaggers crying "Foul!" because you think the latest unemployment #s are cooked, please explain to the rest of us

1) Why Obama chose to wait until a mere 30 days before the election if he had the ability all along;

              and

2) Why he purposely waited until AFTER the 1st debate to do so for the very first time.

We all would LOVE to hear your explanation.

October 5, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.
fairmon said...

Mountainlaurel ask why I haven't addressed the following statement if I was a supporter of Gary Johnson. There is nothing to address, I agree with him.

“US military spending is more than that of every other country combined. There's a culture of waste, fraud, and abuse in defense budgeting we simply can no longer tolerate. Defense spending must be subject to the same scrutiny as other areas of the budge.” [Gary Johnson, Libertarian Presidential Candidate]

I repeat....I know how we got where we are. In addition to the Bush tax cuts there were unfunded programs and wars. How we got there and why is not as important as what we do now with the dilemma described.

The point is both Obama and Romney keep digging the hole while it does appear Romney may not dig as fast but the next decade with either will have us so deep there may be no escape. It probably doesn't really matter which is elected and it may even be better if Obama wins so the inevitable happens quicker.

October 5, 2012 at 5:11 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

The Dow, much to Harp's dismay, has risen 63 points already today as a result of the news.

No dismay yet alprova. I own good dividend paying stocks with a DRIP and they have been smoking. I don't buy the indexes but I will short the S&P when it gets to a certain point which should be before or around the election then regardless of the winner it will soon be time to cover the short sell.

Will you be crunching the unemployment numbers or just accept the labor department report? Don't you think in a primarily service economy like ours anything under 10% is pretty good. If you invest key numbers are average work week and average income direction not the unemployment level. Watch for company stocks on sell that have a large moat and good profits that are shared with stock owners.

October 5, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.
fairmon said...

mzungu said...

Let me see if I got this straight: if the unemployment #s are negative, it's Obama's fault. If the unemployment #s are positive, it's Obama's fault because he cooked the books.

Good point. This may be proof positive that the president does not control the economy, employment levels or gas prices. Markets and economies have normal cycles. Government intervention, mostly congress, may make the extremes worse but the cycles will occur.

Mucking around with tax rates have little if any impact unless they are extreme in either direction. The debt and servicing the debt can be disruptive by occupying too much of the budget to pay the interest. Financing current excesses at the expense of future generations is unnecessary and immoral.

October 5, 2012 at 5:46 p.m.
mymy said...

mzungu: No doubt planned, but after the debate it was a necessity to try to keep some on board and sway undecided. No doubt where the Cult variety stands as seen here.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time”

The stupidity of some people still amazes me!!!

October 5, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
mzungu said...

mymy previously opined:

Quote - No doubt planned, but after the debate it was a necessity to try to keep some on board and sway undecided. No doubt where the Cult variety stands as seen here.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time”

The stupidity of some people still amazes me!!! - End Quote

    ----------------------------------------------------

mymy:

You are being much too harsh on your fellow TeaBaggers. I mean, if Obama truly had the means and the ability to fudge and release contrived unemployment #s, he certainly could have done so long ago and took all the wind out of Etch-A-Sketch's sails even before the debate, no?

SMH.

October 5, 2012 at 6:13 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Make no mistake, the job number's a fake."

The data is all on the BLS website. Get busy proving your claim.

October 5, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Obama gets his asz handed to him by Mitt Romney and the next day the unemployment number magically drops to under 8%."

There was no magic involved.

"HAHA!! Even some Obama supporters I know are laughing at that one."

Do you even think there is one soul who knows your posting habits that would swallow for one second that you "know" any Obama supporters, much less associate with them?

After all, your credibility in this forum has established you as someone who can be believed...right? Uh huh...yep...sure.

"It makes Obama look even more desperate and pathetic than he already was."

Who cares what you think? He's clearly gonna be elected to a second term despite anything and everything you post over the next four weeks. So...fire away.

October 5, 2012 at 7:11 p.m.
ricardo said...

Do conservatards really want the unemployment rate to be higher? Why do you hate this country so much?

October 5, 2012 at 8 p.m.
alprova said...

Tony Fratto, a former spokesman for President George W. Bush, tweeted that the Bureau of Labor Statistics "is not manipulating data. Evidence of such would be a scandal of enormous proportions & loss of credibility."

In another tweet, Fratto said: "Stop with the dumb conspiracy theories. Good grief."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2012/10/05/obama-jack-welch-general-election/1614969/

October 5, 2012 at 8:18 p.m.
mymy said...

Here’s a sneak preview of next week’s New Yorker magazine cover:

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/10/cover-story-the-first-presidential-debate.html#ixzz28TPublOR

October 5, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova,

You might become interesting one day if you would free your mind to search for TRUTH instead of being a megaphone for the democrat party. Do you get some kind of satisfaction from volunteering as a full time conduit for someone else’s communication agenda?

October 5, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.

Ricardo, if the country does well, they can't pretend to be its saviors.

They have to be obstructive and oppose everything. Mitt Romney tried to indict Obama for no Republicans coming on board for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care act.

But all that showed was that none of them had the integrity to respect even their own solutions.

Just have to be obstructive.

October 5, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
alprova said...

ricardo wrote: "Do conservatards really want the unemployment rate to be higher?"

Absolutely. Read the pathetic comments in this forum today. The Republican cheerleaders who were whooping and hollerin' about the debate win for Romney are clearly grasping in desperation to find some way...any way to explain what they know is a stab in the heart for Mitt and other Republican candidates.

The Republican politicians in the House of Representatives, who were elected mid-term on a platform promising to boost employment, instead went to work to keep unemployment numbers high in the hopes of making the President a one term prospect.

Nothing these clowns promised has come to pass, with the exception of working against the President at every turn. And the poll numbers for Congressional candidates prove it.

All that wing-flapping is meaningless today. The September employment numbers are a game changer that the President's poor performance on Wednesday will not erase and those numbers will absolutely help pave the road for the President to coast to a second term.

No longer will a Republican be taken seriously whenever they make any claim that the economy is not on the right path.

No longer will R&R be able to seriously make any claim that Obama's policies are hurting job creation in this nation.

There's not a lot that either of them will have to talk about for the next four weeks.

"Why do you hate this country so much?"

Because they really, really want a white Republican to be in the White House, and their hope was that the economic numbers would remain in the toilet long enough to have half a chance of getting R&R elected.

Too bad...so sad. Better luck in four years.

If the economy continues to improve over the next four years, and if the Democrats run another likeable candidate, Mitt or any other Republican put up to run will lose again.

October 5, 2012 at 8:44 p.m.
ricardo said...

The re-election of Obama, plus the Senate returned as a Democratic majority, will be a complete and utter repudiation of conservatard principles.

October 5, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.
ricardo said...

All of you stupid Repubes need to move to Europe if you like high unemployment rates. It's way up there at 12%, just as you like it.

October 5, 2012 at 8:53 p.m.
tderng said...

so alprova,does that mean that you don't "know" any Romney supporters much less associate with them?

October 5, 2012 at 8:55 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

You make yourself look pitiful alpo. Your credibility is absolutely ZERO, contrary to what you think. You're a loser of gargantuan proportions. What a dickhead.

October 5, 2012 at 9:08 p.m.
tderng said...

ricardo,can't imagine why a Republican would move to Europe.You however, would fit right in over in Europe with rest of the failing socialists. :)

October 5, 2012 at 9:10 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Alpo masturbates over Obama. Over and over again. Pompous loser.

October 5, 2012 at 9:10 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Alprova, You might become interesting one day if you would free your mind to search for TRUTH instead of being a megaphone for the democrat party."

And what TRUTH would that be that I need to search for? As I have related many times, I was once a very dedicated Republican, then about 2003, I started researching the truth to what the Republican party stood for and how they operated.

The all out attack on John Kerry and the lies and misinformation related to derail his campaign caused me to rethink my dedication to the Republicans. By the time that Barack Obama was hammered in 2007-2008, I became totally disgusted with the Republican way of attempting to win elections.

Don't even get me started on what the Republicans have done over the years to provide the boats at the shores of this nation that were loaded with manufacturing jobs that were exported out of this country, to submit legislation that damn near collapsed most of the financial sector of this nation, to deregulate that which needed severe regulation, to do away with the minimum wage, to privatize Social Security, etc...the list could go on and on.

I vote for local Republicans, but never for national candidates.

What truth is there out there that I don't already have a handle on? I deal in truth and facts day in and day out.

"Do you get some kind of satisfaction from volunteering as a full time conduit for someone else’s communication agenda?"

Yeah I do. I get the satisfaction of knowing that misinformation and lies never get to take root, at least in this forum.

Republicans cannot win an election based on persuading people that their ideas and ideals are better. The only way they win an election is through manipulative efforts to limit votes for opponents or through the spreading of lies and baseless attacks on opposing candidates.

I simply refuse to vote for losers that pander strictly to the rich any longer. You're apparently all for it.

To each his own.

October 5, 2012 at 9:12 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Get real alpo: "Yeah I do. I get the satisfaction of knowing that misinformation and lies never get to take root, at least in this forum".

Once again the pompous loser liberal thinks he's the teller of truth when in fact says nothing when the Obama lovers tell lie after lie.

Pretty full of yourself there boy. Lying prick.

October 5, 2012 at 9:26 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Keep taking the Obama sausage punk.

October 5, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Always thought this was the case, one of the champion countries of the environment produces a report showing a contrary perspective on the environmental impact of electric vehicles.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x/full

Can we have an honest discussion on this subject?

October 5, 2012 at 9:32 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Meet the Obama Donors at the BLS

"At least two economists at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) have contributed to President Barack Obama’s campaign. Harley Frazis of Bethesda, MD, has contributed at least $2,000 to Obama and $9,000 to the Democratic National Committee over the last three election cycles".

October 5, 2012 at 9:33 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "so alprova,does that mean that you don't "know" any Romney supporters much less associate with them?"

I know several Republican and Mitt Romney supporters. I get along very well with political opposites. The difference between myself and TOES02800 and some others, is that 99.9% of the time, I treat people with respect when it comes to their political beliefs.

I have many friends and family hanging out in my place of business during the day. Political discussions dominate most conversations.

As I have stated in the past, the minute that any political discussion gets out of hand on my property, people are asked to cool it, or if they disrespect anyone and I hear it, they are kicked off the premises for 24 hours. Nobody has failed to return for another day's discussion.

In this forum, you'll almost never see me refer to anyone with a different political opinion by offering a disrespectful name.

If TOES and some others were to address people in person as they do in this forum routinely, those people would be suffering from chronic cases of fat lip syndrome.

October 5, 2012 at 9:33 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES20800 wrote: "You make yourself look pitiful alpo. Your credibility is absolutely ZERO, contrary to what you think. You're a loser of gargantuan proportions. What a dickhead."

Permit me to respond with my standard retort to such commentary.

Your personal opinion of me is of no consequence.

October 5, 2012 at 9:37 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "And what TRUTH would that be that I need to search for?"

That sounds about right. First you were fooled by the republicans, now you are whoring for the democrats. Maybe someday you will learn to really dig into the issues and know that you are a champion of truth. Any objective observer can see that you are a follower, not a thoughtful person. No one can so consistently agree with a dogma as you do without giving up their responsibility to think objectively and search for reality. You are a cheerleader, not a thinker.

IMHO

October 5, 2012 at 9:41 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Alpo masturbates over Obama. Over and over again. Pompous loser."

What I do is respect the man for the position in life that he has achieved as the elected President of these United States.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with anyone on this planet, but there is something wrong with people who do so disrespectfully. Your habits in this forum has risen to the level that is totally disgusting.

Respectfully disagreeing with people and any fondess for dispensing truths or facts are not ethical qualities that you hold near and dear.

Further, you are one of the most clearly bigoted people I have had the displeasure to encounter.

But, by all means, you just keep on believing that I am a "pompous loser." I happen to like who I am and I like my ability to treat others with more respect that they often deserve at times, very much.

October 5, 2012 at 9:59 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "At least two economists at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) have contributed to President Barack Obama’s campaign. Harley Frazis of Bethesda, MD, has contributed at least $2,000 to Obama and $9,000 to the Democratic National Committee over the last three election cycles."

Just two? Is this evidence that any figures were manipulated with at all to skew things in the President's favor?

The Obama bashers collectively are a thousand pound elephant that is hanging off a cliff, grasping a single blade of grass, hoping that it will keep you from falling.

People, regardless of their professions in life, are certainly allowed to make political donations to the political party or candidate of their choice. You wouldn't be whining at all if it were found that two economists donated to the Republican party or Mitt Romney.

Come to think of it, I wonder how many economists have indeed made political donations to Republican interests. `Don't worry, it will come to light, now that someone has whined about two Democratic donors associated with the BLS, just to even things out.

For four years and counting, not one person has accused anyone of malfeasance who works for the BLS in their reporting jobs numbers.

And why not? Listen close, because I can only whisper. Shhhhhh...it's because bad numbers is what was wanted to make the case for kicking Barack Obama back to Chicago.

A report is issued with a tidbit of good news, and the chicken wing flappers go completely ballistic and start accusing a Governmental institution, with a stellar reputation for accuracy no less, of slanting the numbers in favor of the President because the want to see him win.

Just when you think you've seen and heard it all, and nothing else could be invented that will ultimately backfire on the people purporting it, this, the most outlandish and pathetic claim to date...is born.

October 5, 2012 at 10:24 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: Never has any one candidate deserved "an all out attack" like John Kerry. What a low-life, opportunistic fraud he was and is. Beyond belief that you could have supported that guy. The very thought of him being named SOS is revolting.

October 5, 2012 at 10:34 p.m.
raygunz said...

TOES02800,,developmentally arrested at age 13! What a whiner. When it can't refute the facts,it defaults into name-calling. What a loser. Do your kids((if you have any) laugh at you behind your back,or do they just cringe at your idiocy? How about your co-workers down at the plant? Bet you're well respected there,huh? NOT!

October 5, 2012 at 10:37 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "That sounds about right. First you were fooled by the republicans, now you are whoring for the democrats."

Whoring? Really?

"Maybe someday you will learn to really dig into the issues and know that you are a champion of truth. Any objective observer can see that you are a follower, not a thoughtful person."

You might be surprised to learn that I read a daily digest of many sources to derive my understanding of just about everything of interest. This includes the news, the issues, history, trade publications, rational opinions expressed by others, etc.

Before I arrive at any opinion, I do my level best to look at whatever it may be, not from one side, not from two sides, but from several different sides, if they exist.

"No one can so consistently agree with a dogma as you do without giving up their responsibility to think objectively and search for reality. You are a cheerleader, not a thinker."

Sir, when it comes to my defense of the truth and facts surrounding the President, I do so because no truth or honesty exists in lies and they never will.

I simply will not allow a lie to sit still and to take root.

I would have more admiration for Obama bashers if they were totally honest as to why they dislike the President. They think it is a state secret why they hate the man. It's not and it never has been.

I stated just last week that I am more prone to agreeing with and supporting the Libertarian party platform, but I am realistic in my understanding that the country is not yet ready for a third party Presidential candidate.

October 5, 2012 at 10:51 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "ALPO: Never has any one candidate deserved "an all out attack" like John Kerry. What a low-life, opportunistic fraud he was and is. Beyond belief that you could have supported that guy. The very thought of him being named SOS is revolting."

No man is without his faults but apparently, the people of Massachussets, who have been voting for the man for 30 years and counting, disgree with your position.

I don't know exactly what your objections to the man stem from, but I bet I know what it is. John Kerry is one of tens of thousands of men who returned from Vietnam, who became anti-war advocates, many of whom spoke out about the atrocities that went on over there.

The Republicans smeared the man unrelentingly with pure and unadulterated lies, to persuade the American people that their candidate in office at the time, deserved a second term.

And similar tactics have been used against President Obama, without the desired result working as planned.

Short of the posting of a video depicting the President in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, the Republicans are about out of material that the voting public will all but yawn when it is tried.

October 5, 2012 at 11:21 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "I stated just last week that I am more prone to agreeing with and supporting the Libertarian party platform, but I am realistic in my understanding that the country is not yet ready for a third party Presidential candidate."

I have to admit, I am stunned by that statement. I have never met a Libertarian leaning person that would even consider supporting BHO and the modern democrat party. Your support of a presidential candidate that only wants to expand the role of the federal government is in total contrast to any notion that you hold Libertarian principles close to your heart.

Help me believe.

October 5, 2012 at 11:26 p.m.
fairmon said...

If the unemployment numbers were manipulated surely they would have taken them further down than just back to where they were when obama took office. An outstanding job, unemployment is back to where he started after a steady increase up. Those quick to attribute job losses to the president should be willing to give credit when the number improves. In my opinion the normal fluctuations have always and will continue to occur. Government impact whether good or bad, usually bad, comes from congress.

The good trend may result from grid lock, the progress has been greater since the election that brought it about. Anyone could use stats and numbers to draw a trend line chart to make a convincing story that grid lick did the job.

October 5, 2012 at 11:30 p.m.
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October 18, 2013 at 4:36 a.m.
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