published Wednesday, October 24th, 2012

Detroit

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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nucanuck said...

I'm trying to make the connection. Detroit, the poster child for urban failure, but still home base for American auto manufacturing and a Detriot bumper sticker opposing support for Romney???

I'm not clever enough to get why this is clever. I know Clay had something in mind, but what?

October 24, 2012 at 12:47 a.m.
alprova said...
October 24, 2012 at 1:21 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Well Al, does Romney need a bailout to remain solvent? He may be politically bankrupt, but I'm missing the clever aspect of this particular cartoon.

October 24, 2012 at 2:19 a.m.
alprova said...

I must have missed the memo that stated that every cartoon must be "clever."

Unfortunately, Mitt will probably have more than enough to keep him in the lifestyle he as become accustomed to. I say it's unfortunate because of the way he made his fortune. The man is very familiar with the concept of bankruptcy.

Personally, I think Mitt Romney is ethically bankrupt, but that seems to be a-okay with those who support him. Greed, corruption, empty promises, and religious hypocrisy are admired traits by so many these days. It's no wonder that the man is doing so well. This is what the modern Republican Party has evolved into and it is why I stopped supporting it a few years ago.

Mitt cut himself a great "retirement" plan from Bain Capital. He has raked in millions since his "active" CEO status allegedly ended.

The money Romney continues to collect from Bain Capital is considered "carried interest," meaning it is subject to the capital gains tax rate of 15 percent, which is most likely why Mitt has refused to release those sacred tax returns that would prove it.

He knows that many people would raise their eyebrows if it were revealed. I have little doubt that Mitt's financial handlers also set up some rather shifty tax havens that may or may not still exist.

You see...the Internal Revenue Service allows investment managers to pay the lower rate on carried interest that they receive for running funds for investors. And that is what Bain Capital is, first and foremost. An investment fund.

Mitt Romney may not be at the helm of Bain Capital, but his legacy still lives on. One of Romney’s former partners at Bain said it so eloquently,

*"I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation. The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

People who believe that Mitt Romney has an ounce of concern for 100% of the American people are in for a rude awakening if the man is successfully elected.

165 workers in Freeport, Illinois are most likely going to lose their jobs, which will be moved to China to maximize those profits, the same week that the nation will be deciding who will be the President.

By all means, go ahead and vote your conscience. If he runs the nation as he did Bain Capital and the way he tried to run the state of Massachusetts, there are going to be a great many disappointed people four years from now.

Do any of you people ever wonder for one second, why it is that Mitt only served one term as Governor, why he left office with a 34% approval rating, and why it is that President Obama is up 24 points in Massachusetts?

October 24, 2012 at 4 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And after one term as President, and with such a weak opponent, President Obama hasn't pulled away? Maybe he's a lousy President. Maybe he can't keep his promises. He didn't bail out Solyndra, but his people did ask Solyndra to keep quiet about coming layoffs until after the A.D. 2010 elections. And President Obama hasn't kept those 165 jobs in Freeport? Does this show that he's incompetent and does not care? Detroit has been ruled by liberals for umpteen years and look where it's gotten the place.

October 24, 2012 at 5:56 a.m.
joneses said...

Only an idiot would think Hussien Obama gave GM and Chrysler billions of dollars of taxpayer money they have not paid back yet was to save them from bankruptcy. He let these companies avoid bankruptcy to avoid having the UAW renegotiate their contract. In the event of bankruptcy all contracts are negotiated again to help keep the company in business. So yes it would have been better for the taxpayer for these two companies to go bankrupt. If they made a good product and got rid of the over paid UAW socialist this would not even be an issue. Ford did not get any money.

October 24, 2012 at 6:40 a.m.
patriot1 said...

I agree with Joneses, a bankruptcy should have happened. This was just another example of Obama going around our laws and the constitution. Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code allows a business or corporation to reorganize and would not mean liquidation.

October 24, 2012 at 7:36 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I see Mitt's son apologized to the President for saying he wanted to take a swing at him during the last debate. I cannot believe the lack of respect for the office. Can you imagine what the public would have thought about this story if it involved Roosevelt or Eisenhower? Where does this punk ass get off feeling that he has the status to make this remark and then just apologize, like it's some sort of schoolyard disagreement? If you don't have a problem with this, don't be surprised when the next republican in office gets called a liar during a speech and threatened by punks. I'm sorry, Mr. President, for saying I'd like to take a swing at you. What comes around goes around. Lack of respect is a two way street, you racist pigs.

October 24, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
moonpie said...

Talk about a man who knows how not to be touched by bankruptcy....

alprova is right in his quote.... Bain was not in the job creating or business building industry... they were into wealth building. They borrowed money. Loaded companies with debt and those same companies paid management fees to Bain. If a company went bankrupt.... it wasn't with his money and by the time they did go bankrupt, his profits were in his pockets.

That's doesn't exactly tell me that he knows how to turn things around. It tells me that he knows how to make a profit for himself.

October 24, 2012 at 7:42 a.m.
degage said...

GM is sending jobs out of country. Mexico and China.Why is Obama allowing it? Guess it's because he doesn't care or he is to busy campaigning to notice.

October 24, 2012 at 8:06 a.m.
Reardon said...

Another lame-o cartoon.

And more lame-o comments from our House Socialists who don't get Capitalism.

The fiduciary responsibility of any money manager or business owner is to maximize profit. Not create jobs.

They are responsible first to ensure their investors risk and return profile is satisfied, as opposed to satisfying political desires like Maobama.

Bankruptcy would have been a wonderful solution for the lumbering dinosaur known as GM. Dislodge liabilities, get rid of unprofitable ventures.

They'll probably be considering bankruptcy here in the next decade, I bet.

October 24, 2012 at 8:23 a.m.
EaTn said...

The question I would love to have heard for both of these candidates at one of these debates: At what point in your life were you or your immediate family effected by a distressed financial situation like millions of those now living in this country?

October 24, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
degage said...

Voting alert! Gilford co NC voter fraud, When voter voted for Romney it cast the vote for Obama.They say it has been fixed but what caused it in the first place and is it really fixed.

October 24, 2012 at 8:39 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

Where was the government bailout when my small business was foundering? 20% of my labor expense was related to costs of social security, tax withholding, workmens comp insurance and unemployment insurance. Nobody talks about those things, because they've never taken a risk in business and they don't have a clue what it takes. The United States government and the Internal Revenue Service are the two agencies that absolutely don't care whether or not their levy on business causes jobs to be lost. They don't care that some short-term relief would keep people in business and keep employees working, so that tax revenue would be generated when business conditions improve.

Gotta remember that GM builds Cadillacs. You figure it out.

October 24, 2012 at 8:39 a.m.
mymy said...

Obama was protecting the Unions and no one else!!!!!

13 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 24, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
mymy said...

Obama wouldn't let GM go bankrupt, but it's OK for America To Go Bankrupt!

Nation Debt rising at a rate of $4 Billion a day!!!

October 24, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Nice Tooney. You captured the Democratic spirit. Inflated salaries and lower quality work turned out by your unions. Auto industry collapses and takes city with it ... Democrats blame everybody else but their own and wish the worst for everybody while standing in line with their hands out. I think you captured this one.

October 24, 2012 at 9:39 a.m.
mymy said...

For the Obama Cult:

CNN: Not Only Is Obama's Plan Old, but It Doesn't Add Up

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/24/cnn_not_only_is_obamas_plan_old_but_it_doesnt_add_up.html

October 24, 2012 at 9:46 a.m.
EaTn said...

mymy said...."CNN: Not Only Is Obama's Plan Old, but It Doesn't Add Up"

How many politician proposals to the budget, taxes and spending ever add up?

October 24, 2012 at 10:48 a.m.
conservative said...

Detroit has been run and ruined by Demoncrats.It is a bankrupt city always looking for government handouts (other people's money).

Come Halloween they will show their gratitude with their annual burning of the city

October 24, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
alprova said...

There simply is no end to the number of Republicans willing to insert their feet into their mouths when it comes to the issue of abortion.

Richard Mourdock held a news conference just a few minutes ago, in which he tried to explain himself and his words, but his initial comments say it all. The man said that a pregnancy resulting from an act of rape is "Something that God intended to happen."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m4vpLzxiRpc

October 24, 2012 at 11:56 a.m.
JustOneWoman said...

degage said... GM is sending jobs out of country. Mexico and China.Why is Obama allowing it? Guess it's because he doesn't care or he is to busy campaigning to notice.

I really do not understand why you keep posting as if our country is a dictatorship. Surely you realize that a President is not a dictator. He is an elected official with checks and balances. He doesn't have the power to step on free enterprise. Oh, maybe you thought we were in Saudi or Iran. Yep, that would make sense because your posts often come off like I would expect them to act, authoritarian.

Here, in this country, we elect our President. We do not give our President the power to dictate. So I suggest you get a copy of the Constitution and read it, or move. You are confusing the minions.

October 24, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Conservative, let's not taking that b urning too far. Remember the last "great" American city - New Orleans - to be devastated and the handouts it needed and still needs to "get back on its feet." Cities like that wait for the handouts for decades not the hand up to get back on their feet. That's our Detroit.

October 24, 2012 at 12:22 p.m.
ibshame said...

Mourdock and people like him are the reason anytime they show up at my door, I give them a dollar for their time and tell them I'm not interested in their plans for MY salvation as I shut the door in their faces.

Idiots like Akins, Mourdock and Ryan have no clues about women yet try to impose their beliefs on what women can and cannot do with their bodies. So far here are their thoughts on rape and the results from rape. Mourdock - a woman is raped, gets pregnant and that is a gift from God because he intended for her to be raped? Or from Akins if she is legitimately raped, her body will shut down and keep her from getting pregnant and last but certainly not least Paul Ryan current Repub VP candidate for President - an egg fertilized at conception (whether the conception occurs from a rape or not) is a person and therefore is protected by the 14th amendment.

These people are dangerous to the health and safety of women.

October 24, 2012 at 12:23 p.m.
conservative said...

(CBS) DETROIT - For the fourth year in a row, Forbes magazine is calling Detroit the "Most Dangerous City in America," citing statistics from the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, according to CBS Detroit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57537441-504083/detroit-is-most-dangerous-city-in-america-for-fourth-year-in-a-row-forbes-report-says/

October 24, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.
miraweb said...

Colorado Launches Late Voter Purge

Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler says he has identified 300 more suspected noncitizens on the state's voter rolls, according to a report late Tuesday.

Ninety percent of the 441 voters suspected of being noncitizens are unaffiliated or Democrats, according to the AP.

In addition, some voters contacted by the state have actually been U.S. citizens and some in the original group of 141 voters have claimed they are citizens, according to the AP.

Critics, which include civil rights groups and Democrats, have said that the risk of voters mistakenly purged from the rolls increases since the checks are happening so close to the election.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/voter-purging-resurfaces-colorado/story?id=17552694#.UIgZA795EY0

October 24, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Karl Marx wrote, “The theory of communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.” After one hundred days in office Oblamea nationalized (which is the code word for a Leninist-style government takeover of private industry) General Motors (GM). Using common sense here, he did this to save the unions. Romney’s opinion was that GM should have filed for bankruptcy, which would have kept GM afloat, and they then could have renegotiated the union contacts. I believe Romney is right because the government has no business running a car company. (GM now is Government Motors) Afterward Oblamea stated, “We’ve begun the work of remarking America…..I’m pleased with the progress that we’ve made, but I’m not satisfied.” Of course he didn’t stop with GM on his smoke and mirrors, long march toward his Grand Marxist-Leninist Makeover of America. Next came the banks, the mortgage industry, and Oblameacare, which will be 1/6th of the economy. Karl Marx must be proud of our President, who is a diehard Marxist-Leninist, who is on his way to a socialist makeover of America. Saul Alinsky in his book, Rules for Radicals, said in part “the strategy of working within the system until you can accumulate enough power to destroy” or boring from within. Are you clueless Oblamea lovers starting to realize that he is committed to transforming America into a socialist state, and I’m not talking about European socialism? Everywhere Marxism-Leninism has been tried, it has failed.

Look into the many quotes by Winston Churchill regarding communism and one of my favorites is, “No socialist government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently-worded expression of public discontent. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo.”

President Ronald Reagan had many great statements regarding liberals and a socialist state, but one that stands out is’ “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”

One of my favorite statements, which is dedicated to you clueless Oblamea lovers is “If you got your head up you’re a$$ your other five senses are not working.”

October 24, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.
timbo said...

Here is the correct Romney quote of the Op-Ed in the Wall Street Journal:

"It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition. I believe the federal government should invest substantially more in basic research — on new energy sources, fuel-economy technology, materials science and the like — that will ultimately benefit the automotive industry, along with many others. I believe Washington should raise energy research spending to $20 billion a year, from the $4 billion that is spent today. The research could be done at universities, at research labs and even through public-private collaboration. The federal government should also rectify the imbedded tax penalties that favor foreign carmakers.

But don’t ask Washington to give shareholders and bondholders a free pass — they bet on management and they lost.

The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

This means that Obama and Bennett are LIARS.

This is what a seasoned, smart businessman would recommend. Obama and you the rest of you socialists just don't get it.

October 24, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

Todd Akin Campaign Discovers the Hazards of Tweeting

Later Monday, Akin senior campaign adviser Rick Tyler tweeted, "If Claire McCaskill were a dog, she'd be a 'Bullsh[]tsu.' "

Tyler, reached by telephone, said, "It was a joke. Get it?"

After learning of the Tyler tweet, McCaskill campaign spokeswoman Caitlin Legacki said, "We'll leave it to Missouri's voters to make judgments about the language being used by Todd Akin's campaign. But I think Claire said this morning that their recent tone has certainly been disappointing."

Her campaign cited the dog comment in an email to reporters titled: "Akin continues to offend women, anyone else with a sense of decency."

http://www.therolladailynews.com/article/20121023/NEWS/121029670/1001/NEWS

October 24, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
alprova said...

BobMKE quoted: "President Ronald Reagan had many great statements regarding liberals and a socialist state, but one that stands out is’ “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."..."

So let me get this straight; Since communists are those who read Marx and Lenin, and anti-communists would never read Marx and Lenin, yet the anti-communists claim to understand what they wrote?

Yep...that makes perfect sense. And given that I've never read a word of either, under that criteria, I'm not a Communist.

October 24, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
ibshame said...

You can twist this any way you want but the fact remains Mitt Romney would have allowed Detroit to go bankrupt and until he realized he was going to answer for it in Michigan and Ohio with the voters he was perfectly fine with it. He's nothing more than a spineless wimp. He will take any stand to get a vote. In many ways he's more dangerous, inept and stupid than W. And that is hard for me to write. No doubt he will win by a landslide in the South because of ignorance but fortunately the people of Ohio will remember who saved their azzes and it was not Mitt Romney.

October 24, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.
conservative said...

Does Malik Shabazz Still Think Detroit Residents Should ‘Burn The City Down?’ March 30, 2012 2:30 PM

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/03/30/does-malik-shabazz-still-think-detroit-residents-should-burn-the-city-down/

October 24, 2012 at 1 p.m.
miraweb said...

Rumors of the Deaths of Texas Voters May Have Been Exaggerated

Two weeks after Texas settled a lawsuit for removing from voting rolls citizens the state called "potentially dead," a woman has gone to court to demand that Dallas County remove nine "unquestionably dead" people from its rolls.

Mary Bosworth sued nine allegedly dead voters in Dallas County Court.

Her pro se petition demands "review of voter registrar's refusal to cancel deceased voters' registration."

Bosworth claims Dallas County Voter Registrar Toni Poole refuses to cancel the dead defendants' voter registrations.

Bosworth says she challenged the registration of about 195 dead people in August. She claims Poole sustained five of her challenges but denied the remaining 190 in September.

On Oct. 4, Andrade settled a lawsuit in Travis County Court, filed by four voters who received notices from voting registrars that said "they were 'potentially deceased' and that their voter registration was subject to 'cancellation'" unless they provided proof they were alive within 30 days.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/10/19/51460.htm

October 24, 2012 at 1:09 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

EaTn said... "How many politician proposals to the budget, taxes and spending ever add up?"

That kind of attitude is the problem. Voters have come to expect no fiscal discipline and l lying from politicians in Washington. As long as we tolerate it they will continue to do it.

Kick the bums out. Obama had his chance and proved he was no different. He should be facing screams for impeachment from the citizens. Instead they play us against each other with their embarrassing political theatre.

October 24, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... TheObozo got the "3 AM" call and instead of acting in a true leadership way he went to bed so he would be rested for his campaign trip to Vegas the next day."

You really are a dumbazz to try to keep this bullsh*t up but since this is the best you can do here's another blast from the past for you:

"President Bush is in a Booker Elementary School second-grader classroom. His chief of staff, Andrew Card, enters the room and whispers into his ear, “A second plane hit the other tower, and America’s under attack.” [Education Channel, 9/11/2001; New York Times, 9/16/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/2002; ABC News, 9/11/2002; Washington Times, 10/8/2002] Intelligence expert James Bamford describes Bush’s reaction: “Immediately [after Card speaks to Bush] an expression of befuddlement passe[s] across the president’s face. Then, having just been told that the country was under attack, the commander in chief appear[s] uninterested in further details. He never ask[s] if there had been any additional threats, where the attacks were coming from, how to best protect the country from further attacks.… Instead, in the middle of a modern-day Pearl Harbor, he simply turn[s] back to the matter at hand: the day’s photo-op.” [Bamford, 2002, pp. 633] Bush begins listening to a story about a goat."

Over 2000 American citizens have just been sent to their deaths by crazed terrorists (not from Iraq mind you even though that's where he decided the U.S. needed to send troops to start a war) and he's reading "My Pet Goat."

Wing nuts like you are a dime a dozen and you have NOTHING of any intellectual value to contribute because it's so easy to debunk anything you write. If Mitt Romney should lose this election you're going to be one pathetic POS.

October 24, 2012 at 1:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova wrote...

Personally, I think Mitt Romney is ethically bankrupt, but that seems to be a-okay with those who support him. Greed, corruption, empty promises, and religious hypocrisy are admired traits by so many these days. It's no wonder that the man is doing so well. This is what the modern Republican Party has evolved into and it is why I stopped supporting it a few years ago.

You did start the statement clarifying it as your opinion. I and a few others that have a different view of what continued deficits and the debt will eventually do to this country disagree and attribute those traits to Obama. I am sure some in the republican party may consider your departure a win win with you and the party both being better off. The libertarian party would obviously not satisfy your desire for an all controlling centralized government. I suspect your switch came when Clinton said Hilary would lead the universal health care effort.

I am also pretty sure you know the difference in a structured bankruptcy and how that would have served GM and Chrysler best with post bankruptcy loan guarantees as the came out of it with no debt and newly negotiated union contracts. They both did go bankrupt but with loans and protection of some, including unions, by the government. Obama, actually his advisers since he still doesn't have a clue what really happened, essentially nationalized the two auto makers.

October 24, 2012 at 1:26 p.m.
alprova said...

What some of you Bozo's seem to fail to understand is that GM absolutely went through a managed bankruptcy.

On November 7, 2008 General Motors reported it had projected it would run out of cash around mid-2009 without a combination of government funding, a merger, or sales of assets.

On December 2, 2008, General Motors submitted its "Restructuring Plan for Long-Term Viability" to the Senate Banking Committee and House of Representatives Financial Services Committee.

On Feb. 26, 2009, General Motors announced that its cash reserves were down to $14 billion at the end of 2008. G.M. lost $30.9 billion, or $53.32 a share, in 2008 and spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves.

On March 29, 2009 The U.S Treasury committed to fund a government guarantee of General Motors' warranty liabilities, up to $360.6 million.

On March 30, 2009 President Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements. GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner was also forced to resign on that same date.

On May 31, 2009, an announcement was made that the U.S. Gov't would initially likely become the largest shareholder of the reorganized GM following a bankruptcy filing and re-emergence from bankruptcy. The U.S. government would invest up to $50 billion and own 60% of the new GM and the Canadian government would own 12.5%

On June 1, 2009 General Motors filed Chapter 11, formally entitled "In re General Motors Corp.," case number 09-50026 in the Southern District, Manhattan, New York.

June 1, 2009: GM announced that the Hummer brand would be discontinued

One of the first motions filed in court was one to void the leases on the seven corporate jets, and corporate aircraft hangar at Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, for being no longer valuable to the company's business.

The court gave interim approval to GM's request to borrow $15 billion as debtor-in-possession funding, the company only having $2 billion cash in hand. The United States Treasury argued in court that it was the only source of such debtor in possession funding, and that without the money from the loan General Motors would have no option but liquidation. Other motions in the first-day hearing included motions to approve payments to key suppliers and to employees and distributors who are in possession of goods manufactured for General Motors. All motions passed in court without substantial objection.

June 3, 2009: The meeting of the creditors was held, at the New York Hilton Hotel.

On June 5, 2009, GM announced that the Saturn brand would be sold to the Penske Automotive Group.

(Cont.)

October 24, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
alprova said...

(Cont.)

On June 16, 2009, it was announced that the Swedish firm Koenigsegg Automotive AB and a group of Norwegian investors planned to acquire the Saab brand from General Motors.

June 19, 2009: Deadline for filing all objections to the sale of General Motors.

June 22, 2009: Deadline for making competing bids in the auction of General Motors' assets.

June 25, 2009: Final hearing on the bankruptcy loan.

July 10, 2009: Deadline for completion of the sale, requested by the U.S. Treasury and General Motors.

July 10, 2009: A new company financed by the United States Treasury, "NGMCO Inc" purchased the most of the assets, and the trademarks of the General Motors Corporation. Vehicle Acquisition Holdings LLC then changed its name to "General Motors Company."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_...

October 24, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

If anyone wants to read something worth while instead of this pointless partisan bickering...

Mr. Johnson goes to Washington... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444734804578064672968258516.html

There are a few good politicians in Washington. Few to none of them are lawyers.

October 24, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
miraweb said...

After the crash the banks were also effectively nationalized by Bush.

To both presidents' credit the terms allowed the auto industry and the banks to pay back the loans they were given and to become private companies again, and they did.

Romney knew that he would be fine if companies were put into free-fall and left to bottom out.

What is bothersome is he seems totally blind to the very real damage that would do to millions of families and a core American industry.

A lot of people would not have been just fine.

It's not that Romney believes that "corporations are people, my friend" but that he seems to think corporations are VIP's.

Sometimes there are more important things going on in the world than simply Company A's bottom line. Romney is not accustomed to thinking outside that very tiny box.

October 24, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
miraweb said...

BofA sued for mortgage fraud

The government alleges Countrywide Financial Corp., the mortgage company Bank of America acquired in 2008, dismembered quality control and checks on loan quality in 2007 through 2009, in a process called "the Hustle" that aimed to boost the speed at which it originated and sold loans to the companies.

The mortgage unit falsely continued to claim the loans qualified for insurance from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the complaint alleges.

Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, called Countrywide's alleged behavior "spectacularly brazen in scope."

The complaint alleges that in 2007 Countrywide, which was suffering from revenue shortfalls when the subprime mortgage market collapsed, created a new loan origination program called the Hustle that eliminated all checks on loan quality in order to increase the number of loans issued by the company.

Citing internal documents at Countrywide, the complaint alleges that the program, also called HSSL for "High Speed Swim Lane," was meant to remove "toll gates" and have loans "move forward, never backward."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204530504578076680514724050.html

October 24, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
limric said...

YOO HOO - Hello free market fraudsters,

Your boy, Mitt Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout has haunted him on the campaign trail hasn’t it. “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” he said. BUT, the fact is that he and his wife, Ann, personally gained at least $15.3 million from the bailout. TARP! Taxpayer money! Your money!
Suckers!! Stupid 47 percenters.

The vampire capitalist, Mitt Romney may have ‘said’ he wanted to let Detroit die. But if the auto industry was going to be bailed out, the Romney apparently couldn’t resist getting in on a piece of the action. No wonder he’s so secretive about his tax returns. Romney’s business dealings and tax history gives us a clue as to how he would govern – and that’s why the candidate wants to leave us in the dark.

And wait till you hear how his eldest son Tagg (what idiot names their kid Tagg!?) is an investor in the company supplying voting machines to Ohio. Ooh, and a motorized (wheelchair) scooter company caught fleecing taxpayers (which is ironic given that many private equity titans claim to support Romney for his unabashed belief in small government and free enterprise). Shades of Florida Gov. Rick ‘Batboy’ Scott.

And people (especially women) will still vote for this corporate welfare sucking vampire!

OH, I know why. **“Confused middle-aged white guys of every height and state are looking around in terror/desperation for some hint of stability, someone to validate – however wrongly, however dishonestly – their waning powers. Ah ha ha ha - and found only a charlatan mushball Mitt Romney and the sneering misogyny of the GOP. Hey, better than nothing, better than that Kenyan right? Here you go, bro, have a beer and a layoff and some Glenn Beck jeans to go with your binder full of women, courtesy the Bush worldview and Romney’s promise of more of same. Hey, at least he hates the gays!”

**paraphrased from Mark Medford’s ‘San Francisco Chronicle’ editorial

October 24, 2012 at 1:49 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... TheObozo claims that he never went on any apology tours but his own butt boys were calling it that."

Debunking your stupid, dumbazz claims is like taking candy from a baby. But you keep trying. LOL

http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/10/13/right-wing-media-hype-false-story-about-obamas/150115

October 24, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... This is LYAO funny:

A man who claimed to be a friend of Barack Obama's in his college days alleges that the President not only used cocaine, but sold it. Is this the announcement Donald Trump wants to make on Wednesday, Oct. 24 about Obama?

Those at the highest level in the Romney campaign didn't "want their candidate smeared with this type of activity."

Is this what Trump's Obama announcement on Wednesday is really all about or is it a separate issue altogether?

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY ROMNEY'S CAMPAIGN DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS BULLSHT? BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF THEY DID IT WOULD BE ALL OVER FOR THEM AND THEY KNOW, LIKE YOU, DONALD TRUMP IS ONE GIGANTIC AZZ. BY NOW YOU SHOULD REALLLLLY GET TIRED OF LOOKING STUPID BUT EVIDENTLY YOU DON'T. REMEMBER WHEN YOU TRIED TO SAY THE SECRET SERVICE DEBACLE WITH THOSE PROSTITUTES WAS SOMEHOW LINKED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA? I KNEW THEN YOU WERE BEYOND REALITY. YOU REALLY ARE A POS. BTW Trump's announcement is just another one of his Bullsht attempts to get publicity. Why would he think for one moment President Obama would even dignify this latest ignorance of his?

"Donald Trump's "big announcement" about the presidential campaign turned out to be an offer he claims President Obama can't refuse.

The real estate mogul and reality show star has offered to write a $5 million check to the charity of Obama's choice if — and only if — the president releases all of his college and passport records. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-president-obama-5m-offer-article-1.1191067#ixzz2AF03noT9

October 24, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
timbo said...

ibshame....DETROIT DID GO BANKRUPT. The difference is that we taxpayers are on the hook instead of some bank. Business is business...if the auto industry can't make it on their own so what. Nobody bails my business out and we shouldn't bail out the big boys. All we did was finance the unions. It was a bad deal.

Romney was right.

October 24, 2012 at 2:25 p.m.
ibshame said...

So Trump's big announcement is just another FORM OF "BIRTHER BULLSH*T." Now Gloria Allred has made an announcement of her own. Of course the problem with her announcement is she's not really telling the public anything they don't already know about Romney when it comes to lying. He's told multiple lies now in front of millions so what's one more lie for him to tell?

"Allred, who is Team Obama, had an "October Surprise" of her very own: she is working hard to prove that Romney lied for his pal, Staples founder Tom Stemberg, in his divorce trial.

Stemberg's investment company Bain Capital was an early investor in Staples and Romney served on the company's board for years, according to Washington Post. Sources told TMZ that Romney swore in court that Tom's investments were "overvalued," and referred to him as a "dreamer." Romney's testimony affected Stemberg's ex-wife, Maureen Stemberg Sullivan, and her fair share in the divorce settlement. She ended up with very little. Weeks after the divorce was finalized, Romney and Stemberg allegedly went to Goldman Sachs and cashed in their Staples stock and ended up with a fortune. Allred is revealing that Romney lied and cheated Maureen and later received a big payday. The release of the documents with Romney's testimony could affect his chance at winning the presidential election

NOT LIKELY WITH HIS SUPPORTERS. LOL

Read more at http://www.enstarz.com/articles/8480/20121024/october-surprises-donald-trump-obama-announcement-gloria-allred-romney-announcement.htm#CYHojQs7ArcSVGMa.99

October 24, 2012 at 2:43 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... “Here in large part is what the President last night had to say on the subject:"

Unfortunately for you most people on this forum watched the debate and don't really need your re-cap of what they saw and heard. You should just stick to your NATIONAL ENQUIRER headlines about Donald Trump and his MYSTERIOUS REALLLLY BIG, VERY BIG ANNOUNCEMENTS. LOL

I will say this about Trump and his roadkill hairstyle he is the embodiment of PT Barnum's take on people - to paraphrase "there's a sucker born every minute." Trump has no problem making suckers out of people like you. LMAO

October 24, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Al,

I'm happy to hear that you are not a communist. Now, not cherry picking my 12:39 p.m. post again, do you feel that Oblamea has diehard Marxist-Leninist leanings after very limited, but timely, on topic posting?

October 24, 2012 at 3:19 p.m.
mymy said...

UPDATE: Donald Trump just tweeted out his major announcement, demanding that President Obama release his college and passport applications. In return, Trump vowed to donate $5 million to a charity of Obama's choice...

http://nation.foxnews.com/donald-trump/2012/10/22/trump-releasing-obama-bombshell-week

October 24, 2012 at 3:27 p.m.
mymy said...

Since Detroit is in the toon today, I remembered all the publicity re good ole John Conyers, etc. and family. LOL and the liberals never deal with their own, but make excuses for them no matter what as we see daily here!

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/search?RecordNum=1&vendor=ez&qu=john+conyers+house

October 24, 2012 at 3:48 p.m.
dude_abides said...

God, talk about an OD of tu_q! I've never scrolled quickly through so much crap in my life! It's that other tu_quoque again, as well. No disgusting titles to it's posts. Somebody is straying away from the tu_q form. I wonder how many tu_qs there are? This one also makes mistakes that the regular one doesn't.

October 24, 2012 at 4 p.m.
alprova said...

Don't feed the troll.

October 24, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.
alprova said...

BobMKE asked: "Now, not cherry picking my 12:39 p.m. post again, do you feel that Oblamea has diehard Marxist-Leninist leanings after very limited, but timely, on topic posting?"

No.

October 24, 2012 at 4:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

Now if we can just get someone to stop feeding The Donald. He keeps trolling the media and they keep walking into it.

October 24, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
miraweb said...

When I get too heads down in the news of the day this is the link I go to:

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/GEVS.JPG

October 24, 2012 at 5:24 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Good grief! Apparently, Mitt Romney’s tan is fake and comes from a can:

"The color he's choosing is totally not believable. It's a dead giveaway... They're clearly using way too dark a formula for his skin tone, It's just like, 'Oh my God, he got sprayed. It's just so obvious,'" - Anna Stankiewicz, owner of the New York-based spray tan company Suvara on Romney's fake tan.

Can we also observe that he obviously dyes his hair as well? . . The dye-job is particularly noticeable from the back, where the dark helmet gives way at certain angles to a white mop underneath.”

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/everything-about-romney-is-fake.html

October 24, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.
miraweb said...

And Romney's wearing another British-made tie in that shot.

Cool Britannia!

October 24, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

It makes you feel better to put me in that box, doesn't it? You cannot fathom a man of my age and skin color possibly going against the grain and voting for Barack Obama.

This is a late exchange from yesterday. I only bring it forward because of your inferring that race may influence my opinion and my view of your opinions.

Let me assure you that age or skin color have nothing to do with why I cannot fathom why anyone, including you, would vote for Obama. I have no doubt he will win so time will tell if my concerns are legitimate. Actually, as often stated, it may not matter since we may not be able to stop the slide.

I don't see either of them being aggressive enough to change our destiny and certainly don't see people willing to make necessary sacrifices to change anything.

Our views and opinion of Obama do differ drastically but it does not have anything to do with his ethnicity or yours. I accept that many will vote for him and others against him for just that reason. A very poor decision factor even if they balance out.

October 24, 2012 at 6:33 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Duped_again says: "I can't believe the lack of respect for the office....."

Golly Beav! Where were you when your libby's were burning George Bush in effigy? Bush got dragged over the coals by a-sholes like you. Some nerve boy.

October 24, 2012 at 7:21 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

In Ohio, Biden Talks About All the Ads Being Run 'Here in Iowa'

http://nation.foxnews.com/joe-biden/2012/10/24/ohio-biden-talks-about-all-ads-being-run-here-iowa

What a retarded old man.

October 24, 2012 at 7:26 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Alprova said: "Richard Mourdock held a news conference just a few minutes ago, in which he tried to explain himself and his words, but his initial comments say it all. The man said that a pregnancy resulting from an act of rape is "Something that God intended to happen."

And did also note that as of 3 pm this afternoon, Fox News still hadn't mentioned Mourdock:

“What were the biggest political stories of the past 24 hours? One of them would have to be Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock’s explosive comments on rape and abortion in a debate last night. It’s already become an issue in the presidential campaign, not least because Mourdock happens to be the only general election Senate candidate Romney has endorsed and cut an ad for. A Google News search returns about 13,900 results for “Richard Mourdock” in the past 24 hours alone, including stories from every big major news outlet imaginable. Every one, that is, except for Fox News, which has mentioned the story zero times as of 3 p.m., according to a TVEyes search.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/24/fox_news_whos_richard_mourdock/

October 24, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama Says To Look At "Videotape" For His Flip-Flops The President hit Mitt Romney for flip-flopping today on the campaign trail in Iowa saying you can look at videotape of his past positions and not see flip-flops. The President, however, has engaged in his own of political gymnastics as well.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/obama-says-to-look-at-videotape-for-his-flip-flo

October 24, 2012 at 7:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Reality Check, Gov. Romney, Detroit Doesn't Forget

Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm - Former Gov. of Michigan

"In this week's final presidential debate, Governor Romney and President Obama had another heated exchange about the auto bailout. In response to Romney's attempt to claim credit for the rescue of the automotive industry, President Obama said, "Governor, the people in Detroit don't forget."

"The President's right. We don't forget."

Read the rest at;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-m-granholm/reality-check-gov-romney_b_2007586.html

October 24, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

DETROIT'S TRAGIC LOVE AFFAIR WITH LIBERALISM

"Think of liberalism like a deadly virus or a parasite. What does a parasite need to survive? That’s right, a host or a living creature that it uses and abuses for its own pleasure. Applied to the crisis of leadership here in Detroit, liberalism is the parasite and the host is the 88 percent black majority. Like a giant, disgusting leech, for the past 75 years FDR-style liberal ideas and socialist programs designed “to help the Negro” have only sucked this city dry".

http://www.wnd.com/2008/04/60620/

October 24, 2012 at 7:53 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Show me a monopoly (liberalism) and I’ll show you a tyranny (Detroit)".--Ellis Washington

October 24, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.
miraweb said...

So tell me, Francis - what do you drive and who made it?

October 24, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.
alprova said...

Deleted

October 24, 2012 at 8 p.m.
alprova said...

Romney Says He’s Winning — It’s a Bluff

"In recent days, the vibe emanating from Mitt Romney’s campaign has grown downright giddy. Despite a lack of any evident positive momentum over the last week — indeed, in the face of a slight decline from its post-Denver high — the Romney camp is suddenly bursting with talk that it will not only win but win handily."

“We’re going to win,” said one of the former Massachusetts governor’s closest advisers. “Seriously, 305 electoral votes.”

"This is a bluff. Romney is carefully attempting to project an atmosphere of momentum, in the hopes of winning positive media coverage and, thus, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy."

Read the rest at;

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/romney-says-hes-winning-its-a-bluff.html

October 24, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Ibshame said: "Mourdock - a woman is raped, gets pregnant and that is a gift from God because he intended for her to be raped?"

Republicans like Mourdock have given rapists the perfect alibi. . . God made me do it.

October 24, 2012 at 8:12 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

How Bill Clinton May Have Hurt the Obama Campaign

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/how-bill-clinton-may-have-hurt-the-obama-campaign/?hp

Lesson: Never send an impeached, womanizing proven liar out to do your bidding. Especially after bashing his wife in the primaries. HAHA!!

October 24, 2012 at 8:12 p.m.
alprova said...

New polls show presidential race neck-and-neck

"Two national polls released in the last 24 hours show that the presidential race remains a dead heat, with GOP nominee Mitt Romney gaining ground in one survey but losing steam in another."

"But despite the deadlocked national numbers, President Obama seems to be retaining a small but statistically significant lead in pivotal Ohio."

"Yesterday afternoon's Washington Post/ABC News poll found the candidates nearly tied among likely voters, with 49 percent of respondents backing Romney and 48 percent backing the president. The results were flipped from a week prior, when the same poll showed Mr. Obama ahead of his challenger by a single point. Both results were within the poll's margin of error."

"Notably, the Washington Post/ABC News poll showed Romney leading the president by 12 points among independents, a high watermark for the Republican with that group."

"The survey, conducted between October 19 and 22, polled 1,382 likely voters."

"But if the president's campaign was unnerved by the new numbers from Washington Post/ABC News, they may take heart from today's national tracking poll from Gallup, which shows that Romney's lead has dwindled to 3 points in the wake of Monday's foreign policy debate."

Read the rest at;

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57539580/new-polls-show-presidential-race-neck-and-neck/

October 24, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Alpo show his desperation by jumping for joy at a "neck and neck" race. I predict hanging chads and the demand to recount only the liberal counties in our future.

October 24, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.
miraweb said...

Ohio Rep Gives Up On TV Ads

Sensing that the target audience has reached its limits, Representative Jim Renacci of Ohio has canceled $850,000 in advertisement reservations for the final days of his campaign for re-election, going dark on network television as one of the most expensive House races draws to a close.

The decision marks perhaps the most dramatic response to the relentless advertising wars in the first presidential campaign since the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision opened the financing floodgates.

As of Tuesday, the Cleveland media market has been pummeled with 73,178 political ads this year, according to Kantar Media, which tracks such ads. Mr. Renacci said advertising in that onslaught would be a waste of time and money, although he will maintain a small amount of commercials on cable channels.

“Quite frankly, as this election cycle moved forward, we noticed Ohio voters were really using their televisions for target practice,” he said in an interview. “And who can blame them?”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/sensing-saturation-ohio-house-candidate-cancels-advertising-buy/

October 24, 2012 at 8:21 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Rasmussen-- Romney 50 Obama 46

Gallup-- Romney 50 Obama 47

wa/po-- Romney 49 Obama 48

Reuters-- Romney 47 Obama 46 .

Romney’s support among white men is its highest of the campaign, a 2-1 margin, 65-32 percent. That compares with 57-41 percent, McCain-Obama, in the 2008 exit poll".

Dreaming is good. Keep it up.

October 24, 2012 at 8:26 p.m.
miraweb said...

It is pretty easy to cherry pick polls. If it helps you sleep tonight, knock yourself out. Does little harm.

Here's Gallup's full version

Registered voters: Obama 48 Romney 47

Likely voters: Romney 50 Obama 47

Both polls are within the margin of error.

I think it may be useful to the country to have an election where the outcome is not a done deal. David Brooks wrote a nice piece today on the hazards of watching the polls too closely right now.

There's a lot of data but not a prediction that is fully reliable. It's going to be a long night.

October 24, 2012 at 8:32 p.m.
ricardo said...

Clay Bennett said: "Let Romney go bankrupt!"

Mitt Romney will go bankrupt in yet another unsuccessful bid to become president.

October 24, 2012 at 8:44 p.m.
ricardo said...

Oil prices are coming down. Gas prices will follow:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203937004578076892015038554.html

October 24, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.
ricardo said...

Will the real Mitt Romney please stand up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQwrB1vu74c&feature=g-vrec

October 24, 2012 at 9:13 p.m.
jdavid said...

It's good to see that the Free-Press showed some integrity by endorsing The Libertarian Party Candidate Gary Johnson. They call Romney a flawed candidate. That's much too kind!

October 24, 2012 at 10:10 p.m.
fairmon said...

From the TFP editorial endorsing Gary Johnson.......

Unlike Obama, (and Romney <-inserted) Johnson understands that government spending, unsustainable bailouts and stimulus schemes only lead to more unemployment, a higher national debt, a weakened dollar and a less stable economy.

October 25, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
fairmon said...

I don't know how to stop people from taking part of a sentence and/or video clip(s) and making it look like a candidate said or did something entirely different that what they said or intended. However it is a real problem, PAC videos are big offenders. Both parties participate.

October 25, 2012 at 4:41 a.m.
fairmon said...

In a letter posted on the Wall Street Journal website late on Wednesday, a group of 80 U.S. corporate chiefs said it is urgent and essential to put in place a plan to fix America's debt. The letter is due to be released on Thursday.

October 25, 2012 at 7:49 a.m.
joneses said...

Unlike Hussein Obama bankrupting America and his failed investments in the so called green energy companies and the unions bankrupting GM and Chrysler, Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney is to smart to go bankrupt.

October 25, 2012 at 8:05 a.m.
fairmon said...

P&G revenue down 4% and profits down 6% compared to the same quarter last year. DuPont sales and profits down, will lay off 1500 people. There are many similar examples. Aren't you glad the private sector is just fine and the economy is slowly doing better? This assumes you believe what you are being told. Those who think the status quo is good shouldn't consider Gary Johnson as an option and a way to send a signal to those doing this for us. However, those that think both parties are doing it to us may want to consider the alternative.

October 25, 2012 at 8:11 a.m.
miraweb said...

I moved my funds into domestic small caps and I made money this week. Europe is the drag. No president will change that.

October 25, 2012 at 8:20 a.m.
miraweb said...

Major multinationals are going to ride rough this year. Europe is fragile and Asia has some slowing. The U.S. is actually accelerating a bit right now but if you are tied up in overseas stocks it's gonna hurt.

October 25, 2012 at 8:29 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Reality Check, Gov. Romney, Detroit Doesn't Forget

alprova...you of all people know a structured bankruptcy would have better served GM and the tax payers. You know bankruptcy does not mean divesting everything and ending the business. You know government guaranteed loans would have enabled them to do what was necessary to be a viable business long term. Do you think with their current status once the no taxes period ends they will be competitive? Could it be that Detroit has already forgotten and will repeat the dilemma in about five years? Is GM just another can kicking?

October 25, 2012 at 8:29 a.m.
miraweb said...

GM is around to kick the can.

Romney says he could have put together funds to privately take GM through a different path than the structured bankruptcy it actually went through.

So why didn't he do that?

Guess he was too busy writing opinion pieces for the Times.

Detroit never forgets - and neither does Ohio who would have also lost thousands of jobs.

October 25, 2012 at 8:36 a.m.
miraweb said...

So how much more are those corporate chiefs going to pay in taxes? Which tax breaks are they voluntarily giving back to help the debt? How much money is coming back from the Caymans?

Oh, right - they want everyone else to take the pain while they take the profits. Silly me.

October 25, 2012 at 8:41 a.m.
degage said...

according to Forbes GM outsources 2/3 of their jobs. so much for Obamas claim of saving american jobs, He saved jobs for other countries.To bad we have so many people that believe anything the liar in chief says without checking it out. Also Romney was right when he said he didn't say what Obama is accusing him of saying about GM. MSNBC fact check said Obama was wrong and Obama is still parroting the lie.

Obama is lying about Lybia if he was in the cituation room when all was going down. And if he wasn't why wasn't he. WE now know the WH was getting on the spot video and nothing was done to help.

October 25, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Romney said: “I would do nothing to hurt the U.S. auto industry.”

Obama said: “If we had taken your advice, Governor Romney, about our auto industry, we’d be buying cars from China instead of selling cars to China.”

“Most viewers had little idea what Obama was talking about or why Romney felt the need to rebut him so specifically.

But their coded exchange almost certainly referred to an investigative report that broke wide on the Internet, without much attention from the mainstream media so far—Greg Palast’s article in The Nation magazine, exposing Romney’s huge profits from Delphi, a crucial auto parts company, that moved nearly all of its jobs to China after taking billions in auto bailout money from the Treasury.

As Palast reported, the Romneys made millions from that intricate deal, put together by one of his main campaign donors, billionaire investor Paul Singer—through a “vulture fund,” known as Elliot Management.

Having bought up Delphi at fire-sale prices, Singer and his partners essentially blackmailed the Treasury into paying them billions so that Delphi would keep supplying parts to General Motors and Chrysler.

They stiffed the company’s pensioners, pocketed the bailout funds and moved all but four of the firm’s 29 plants to China. . .

. . . so far, Romney has escaped any questions about why he and Ann Romney invested their millions with vulture investors who used taxpayer funds to destroy American jobs.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/no_denial_son_of_detroit_profited_from_bailout_--_and_jobs_shipped_to_china/

October 25, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
miraweb said...

30% of U.S. wealth is in the hands of 5% of the citizenry.

There can be no real progress on the debt unless they pay more. It is just math.

Magic trickle down growth fairy dust isn't going to solve a very real problem. A military buildup that we don't need and can't afford doesn't help at all.

The fact that Romney has a few dozen CEOs signing letters helps a lot less than if they started signing checks to the US Treasury.

You can't win a game with 1/3 of the team having tea and cookies in the locker room.

October 25, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "alprova...you of all people know a structured bankruptcy would have better served GM and the tax payers."

No I don't know that, and I have cited every reason why the course taken was the only option, other than a total liquidation of all of GM's assets.

I repeat...nobody or no private entity wanted to buy GM in bankruptcy court.

If you disagree, then cite anyone or any entity, with enough resources that was interested in salvaging any part of GM at the time.

I also repeat...what the Government did saved the taxpayers immense amounts of money. By the time GM's failure would have filtered down to all its suppliers, a million jobs would have been lost. Multiply that by $300 a week for a year, two years, or more, to understand what the Unemployment Compensation alone, would have run.

"You know bankruptcy does not mean divesting everything and ending the business."

It most certainly does if there are no funds to operate the business, and at the time GM filed, it had about a month's worth of funds on the books.

"You know government guaranteed loans would have enabled them to do what was necessary to be a viable business long term."

What difference does it make? Whether a direct loan from the Treasury or a guaranteed loan, the taxpayers are on the hook for the entire amount, plus interest.

"Do you think with their current status once the no taxes period ends they will be competitive?"

If the economy picks up, you bet they will be competitive.

"Could it be that Detroit has already forgotten and will repeat the dilemma in about five years? Is GM just another can kicking?"

Time will tell. Given the current state of the economy, which is very slowly recovering, they are indeed holding their own.

October 25, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Will the real Obama please stand up!!

Obama's Flip Flops: Who Is Barack Obama??

You were saying retardo?

October 25, 2012 at 9:36 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said...

So how much more are those corporate chiefs going to pay in taxes? Which tax breaks are they voluntarily giving back to help the debt? How much money is coming back from the Caymans?

Actually they recommended the Simpson Boles plan as the framework for addressing the problem. They also supported elimination of deductions as proposed by Simpson/Boles. Keep in mind there is a big difference in the ridiculous CEO and management salaries and business profits that pay dividends or can be used to grow the business. Most CEOs and super wealthy don't object to paying a little more if so much was not wasted by the government. Many of them see a lot more of the frivolous wasteful spending than most of us. What does it matter where my money is, the Caymens or a Swiss account, if it is legal to have it where I have it and pay any taxes due?

Think about it...we don't elect many people to congress that could manage a small business and certainly not a large one. Many are lawyers with no business experience, others like Harry Reid are career politicians, but we depend on them to manage the largest business in the world, the U.S. government, effectively and efficiently. In other words we think chicken salad can be made out of chicken crap. We demand that ability of a president that is not much smarter than the congress we provide. And, we require the president to continue having people like him or it will be her when Hilary is elected in 2016.

October 25, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
mymy said...

“Losing campaigns have a certain feel to them: They go negative hard, try out new messaging very late in the game, hype issues that only their core supporters are focused on, and try to turn non-gaffes and minor slip-ups by their opponents into massive, election-turning scandals. Think of John McCain’s desperate hope that elevating Joe the Plumber would change the shape of the 2008 race, and you have the template for how tin-eared and desperate a losing presidential campaign often sounds — and ever since the first debate cost Obama his air of inevitability, he and his surrogates have sounded more like McCain did with Joe the Plumber than like a typical incumbent president on his way to re-election. A winning presidential campaign would not normally be hyping non-issues like Big Bird and “binders full of women” in its quest for a closing argument, or rolling out a new spin on its second-term agenda with just two weeks left in the race, or pushing so many advertising chips into dishonest attacks on its rival’s position on abortion. A winning presidential campaign would typically be talking about the issues that voters cite as most important — jobs, the economy, the deficit — rather than trying to bring up Planned Parenthood and PBS at every opportunity. A winning presidential campaign would not typically have coined the term “Romnesia,” let alone worked it into their candidate’s speeches.”

12 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 25, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.
degage said...

Laural, get your info right. Delphi was part of GM and the union workers kept their pensions while non-union workers were stiffed. Romney had a blind trust and had nothing to do with the demise of that part of GM.

October 25, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
miraweb said...

Swiss accounts and Cayman funds are legal in those countries and much of what they do is illegal elsewhere or they would not exist.

This is not a question of legal.

The debt has to come down or it will drag the economy. That is a fact.

The debt cannot come down until the wealthy pay more.

The irony is if the wealthy want to hold the tax increase hostage as a bargaining chip rather than getting it done, they lose the most money.

It's a Lose - Lose.

I agree there are too many real idiots in the Congress. Two sitting Senators who can't figure out rape and conception seems like two too many to me.

October 25, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Yep. GM never streamlined manufacture processes. Their overpaid unions never had to sacrifice a dime. They still are going to get 85% of their final years salary for life. (most while retiring at the ripe old age of 55). Here you have people scraping by making $40,000 a year being taxed to create cushy retirements for people making twice that amount.

This bailout was all about securing the votes of the unions. And you're full of shiit if you think otherwise.

October 25, 2012 at 10:08 a.m.
miraweb said...

Romney's trust is under the control of his friend and personal lawyer. It wasn't so blind as to not give Romney's son 10 million.

It is ironic that Romney said he wants to break unions but it was the non- union Delphi workers who got cut. Romney is an equal opportunity b@stard if there's a buck to be made.

At best Romney has a "ray ban" trust not a blind one.

The current setup probably doesn't pass federal muster and Romney would have to change it if elected.

October 25, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Ok mira, I guess Obama should pull his money from his retirement accounts, as those accounts are all over the Cayman's and Switzerland. Funny I've never heard you mention that.

And you seem to think that raising taxes is the panacea for all of our financial problems. Too much spending never came across the mind?

Does your boss give you a raise every time you blow the budget?

Do you believe people with bad spending habits should just keep spending at a higher rate and then force others to pay their tab?

Do you believe there is an abyss of taxable dollars out there that can just be dumped in Washington every time a liberal has a new itch to spend?

Do you believe there are qualified people out there who should determine who gets the free ride and who must work to pay for it?

Talk to me baby, talk to daddy.

October 25, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

"You know government guaranteed loans would have enabled them to do what was necessary to be a viable business long term."

alprova said..... What difference does it make? Whether a direct loan from the Treasury or a guaranteed loan, the taxpayers are on the hook for the entire amount, plus interest.

There is no tax payer money tied up or involved in a guaranteed loan unless the business fails to pay. Financial institutions will loan money to any entity with the government guaranteeing the loan. There are many examples of companies going bnakrupt without divesting everything, K-mart comes to mind as one with no government involvement. Stock holders and bond holders take a bath and in the case of GM the union contracts would have been voided and renegotiated with guidance from a bankruptcy judge instead of becoming large owners of the new stock and other future guarantees. There is no doubt GM was poorly managed and gave union concessions in good times and made other decisons that led to it's demise. It is still poorly manged with future liabilities that make it vulnerable.

Obviously you aren't a CPA, you must have a 2 year associates in accounting.

October 25, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said...

Swiss accounts and Cayman funds are legal in those countries and much of what they do is illegal elsewhere or they would not exist.

Simply not true...what do you base your conclusion on?

This is not a question of legal.

It is a question of legal, congress can make it illegal. As long as it is legal for me to use a foreign account from which to make foreign investments I would not be very smart not to do that. I can also decide if I want to bring it to the U.S. and and pay the higher rates or when to bring it back to take the best advantage of currency exchange rates.

The debt has to come down or it will drag the economy. That is a fact.

We agree on that.

The debt cannot come down until the wealthy pay more.

We don't agree on this issue but I have no problem with allowing all the current tax rates to expire and returning to Clinton rates.

I agree there are too many real idiots in the Congress. Two sitting Senators who can't figure out rape and conception seems like two too many to me.

I agree but put the number closer to 400 plus or minus a few.

October 25, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Degage says Re GM/Delphi: “Laural, get your info right. . . Romney had a blind trust and had nothing to do with the demise of that part of GM.”

Please, Degage. Either you’re naïve or you’re being disingenuous here.

When a person seeks out and gives his money to a well-known hedge fund “vulture” like Paul Singer at Elliott Management, the person can hardly claim that it was a “blind” transaction:

“Other GOP presidential hopefuls chased Singer’s endorsement, but Mitt chased Singer with his own checkbook, investing at least $1 million with Elliott through Ann Romney’s blind trust (it could be far more, but the Romneys have declined to disclose exactly how much).”

“Romney has done a good job of concealing, until now, the fact that he and his wife, Ann, personally gained at least $15.3 million from the bailout—and a few of Romney’s most important Wall Street donors made more than $4 billion.”

“Their gains, and the Romneys’, were astronomical—more than 3,000 percent on their investment.”

http://www.thenation.com/print/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza

October 25, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.
miraweb said...

If you want to pay off your own credit card, you put money on the account.

You can't pay off the national credit card just by writing letters to the paper.

I also would have little problem with the Clinton era tax rates. They did balance the budget after Reagan's spending and that was no easy task.

Unfortunately, the voodoo-economic myth is so engrained that there are people whose heads might explode if you tell them that tax rates must go up for growth to take hold.

Grover Norquist would probably have a seizure.

Even a family budget will go nowhere good if more money is going to credit card interest than to things that build for the future. If that is the case, you have to start paying the bills.

It really does work that way.

You may be right on the number of idiots in Congress. We really need to spend more on education in this country.

Sadly, there are interests in Washington that really don't want a smart puppet.

October 25, 2012 at 11:05 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Nice Job of keeping the discussion away from Libya Clay!

We need to keep ourselves laser focused on Obama's talking points!

October 25, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
miraweb said...

Honestly, I've got a bigger eye on Sandy than the election today. Generator check on the schedule for this afternoon.

October 25, 2012 at 11:31 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "You can't pay off the national credit card just by writing letters to the paper."

Yes, the first step is to cut back on the credit card spending, and then pay off the debt.

Going back to the Clinton tax rates would not fund the current level of spending. We have fallen for the "raise taxes and trust us to reduce spending" approach before. The second part never seems to happen. Lets see actual cuts in spending, not cuts in the rate of increase of spending, and then we can talk about the tax code.

October 25, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.
miraweb said...

BRP writes: Lets see actual cuts in spending, not cuts in the rate of increase of spending, and then we can talk about the tax code.

Exactly the behavior I was talking about. If you choose the tax increase as your main bargaining chip the wealthy will be the ones to lose the most money.

In politics, there are plenty of bargaining chips and horse-trading that can get cuts in programs and spending.

There is a fairness issue. Medicare and Social Security work because there is a fairly common set of rules that apply to everyone. It survives as a long-term program because the issue of fairness has been tackled.

I don't think it is unfair to want spending cuts along with tax increases. None of us want wasted money or bad programs.

I just think it is stupid and self-destructive to hold one hostage to the other. We need a smarter way to negotiate this.

And the richer you are, the more you get hurt if the debt doesn't come down.

Soon.

October 25, 2012 at 12:07 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Degage says: “Delphi was part of GM and the union workers kept their pensions while non-union workers were stiffed.”

Believe you’re ignoring the facts again, Degage. The hedge fund “vulture” and his silent partner Mitt Romney picked everybody’s bones - including non-union pensioners and union workers:

“Once the hedge funders, including Singer —a deep-pocketed right-wing donor and activist who serves as chair of the conservative, anti-union Manhattan Institute— took control of the firm, they rid Delphi of every single one of its 25,200 unionized workers.”

“Romney’s “job creators” did create jobs—in China, where Delphi now produces the parts used by GM and other major automakers here and abroad. Delphi is now incorporated overseas, leaving the company with 5,000 employees in the United States (versus almost 100,000 abroad).”

http://www.thenation.com/print/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza

October 25, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "I just think it is stupid and self-destructive to hold one hostage to the other."

OK, then bring some real spending cuts to the table as a part of the package. It has never been done in my lifetime. I mean cuts that actually reduce spending of the federal government. It is always "let's raise taxes now and find XXX savings over the next year.

Then you get monkey business like Obama putting the wars in the middle east on the budget so he can use that as his baseline for reductions. Since Bush was such a reckless spender, how about using Clinton level spending and adjusting it up by the COL index to arrive at the 2013 budget?

October 25, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

“Miraweb said: “Honestly, I've got a bigger eye on Sandy than the election today.”

Don’t expect Mitt’s guys to relate, Miraweb. As we learned from the presidential debate, Romney views extreme weather events and any potential climate change issues to be a joke.

October 25, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

To be clear - I don't think everyone who has money in a Swiss bank is corrupt. I do think a lot of corrupt people find Swiss banks handy.

Swiss Banks Dropping American Clients

The new law, expected to be phased in over several years, requires foreign banks to identify Americans among their clients and to provide their financial information to the Internal Revenue Service. Just one person overlooked could mean a penalty equivalent to 30% of a bank's U.S. income.

The measure, known as the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or Fatca, applies globally. Swiss banks are particularly nervous. The U.S. has alleged that 11 Swiss banks helped Americans avoid paying taxes.

Most banks in Switzerland have little appetite to deal with such risk and are quietly—or openly—ushering American clients out or limiting the range of products offered to them, tax experts and bankers say.

Credit Suisse AG says it doesn't comment on individual clients. In general, the Swiss bank "is willing to maintain relationships with clients who are U.S. nationals, provided that such clients are in compliance with their U.S. tax and reporting obligations," said a spokesman. This includes offering mortgages to Swiss-based U.S. citizens, he adds.

Postfinance, a big retail bank, also turned down Mr. Roudabush. A spokesman for Postfinance confirms that the bank is stopping offering mortgages to Americans who aren't already clients.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444592704578062570295543436.html

October 25, 2012 at 12:44 p.m.
miraweb said...

The Sequester cuts a lot of spending - in a fairly dumb way. Bowles-Simpson proposes the same in fairly smart way. There have been other proposals.

Grabbing the tax increase as a political bargaining chip is blocking any solution and making the debt go up. The rising debt is slowing economic growth and the richest are losing the most money.

It is a false choice - both spending cuts and a tax increase will have to happen. If we don't then growth will remain slow.

Period.

There is just no good reason to tie the two issues together. That very unnecessary Gordian knot is really mucking up the economy.

Mitt Romney is doubling down on the now-infamous rejection of a fiscal policy deal that would provide $1 in new taxes for every $10 in spending cuts.

During a Republican primary debate last August, all GOP candidates – including Romney – said they would reject a hypothetical proposal to trade $10 in spending cuts for $1 in tax increases.

“I do feel that way,” Romney said in an interview broadcast Sunday on the CBS program “Face the Nation”, defending that stance.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/233085-romney-stands-by-rejection-of-fiscal-bargain-with-tax-increases

October 25, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
miraweb said...

If Sandy keeps on her current course then Mitt might get the opportunity to explain those views in detail to his roofing contractors in Boston and New Hampshire.

Though, he might need to work on his Spanish.

October 25, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.
miraweb said...

Ah, TQQ. I see your mom woke you up early today. Welcome to the party.

October 25, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "There is just no good reason to tie the two issues together. That very unnecessary Gordian knot is really mucking up the economy."

It is a spending problem miraweb. There is no solution without dealing with spending. Coupling the two is a perfectly rational requirement in light of Congress's inability to cut anything. Writing another thousand words won't change that.

October 25, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.
miraweb said...

Be sure to reset your deficit clocks next week.

October 25, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
alprova said...

"There is no tax payer money tied up or involved in a guaranteed loan unless the business fails to pay. Financial institutions will loan money to any entity with the government guaranteeing the loan."

No bank wanted to lend a dime to GM at the time they filed bankruptcy, under any scenario. Look it up Harp. This is not something we should be arguing about. The circumstances were all confirmed by the bankruptcy court. It's all there. I posted the case number. Go look it all up. It's public information.

"There are many examples of companies going bnakrupt without divesting everything, K-mart comes to mind as one with no government involvement."

Yes, and that is because Sears bought them. NO ONE and NO ENTITY even offered a dime for GM. It would have been converted to a chapter 7 and liquidated...plain and simple.

"Stock holders and bond holders take a bath and in the case of GM the union contracts would have been voided and renegotiated with guidance from a bankruptcy judge instead of becoming large owners of the new stock and other future guarantees."

A bankruptcy judge approved all that was done, fully aware that there were union contracts that had to be honored or big bucks would have had to be paid out in compensation for voiding them.

"There is no doubt GM was poorly managed and gave union concessions in good times and made other decisons that led to it's demise. It is still poorly manged with future liabilities that make it vulnerable."

It is not currently being poorly managed. It's right up there hovering at number 1, see-sawing with Toyota. The world's economy is dampering sales -- not the way the company is being operated.

"Obviously you aren't a CPA, you must have a 2 year associates in accounting."

Sir, I suggest that you do a little research into the facts before you lower the boom in attacking me. You're truly coming off rather ignorant, especially on the issue of bankruptcy.

October 25, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I can imagine the Obama administration calling CBS and telling them to hold the interview when he decided the video crowd story suited his purposes better, and then later calling them and asking them to release the evidence that he was not completely asleep at the wheel while the Libya attack was going down. Problem is, that only makes him more of a lier. We have a president that lied to us to protect his own interests. A president that knew damn well that American's were being attacked and declined to use the available resources to do anything about it. He was probably tucking himself in to sleep before his trip to Vegas while the Ambassador was breathing his last breath in the safe room.

October 25, 2012 at 1:20 p.m.
miraweb said...

Fairness is important. Things that work for the long term make sure that all of the interests involve can feel that the process and the outcome were mostly fair.

None of us feel that wasted tax dollars meet the fairness standard. We willingly pay our share. We expect that contribution to be treated with due care and respect.

The tax burden also has to be fair. I think that was why a lot of folks got their noses out of joint to think that the lowest income groups don't pay any taxes. Fairness might demand at least a token amount.

The AMT got through because enough people at the top end also were getting by with no taxes due. It's kind of a pain now but it became law because of fairness.

Romney's proposals to jigger corporate taxes, capital gains, and his mysterious proposal to reduce tax rates but not reduce revenue also have to pass a fairness test if they are going to last.

I don't think he's been able to do that.

October 25, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP - I agree that there is no solution without dealing with spending. I just see little upside to trying to work two major deals in tandem when either one will be a fair work of political craftsmanship.

The coupling can be done. I just don't think it should. There are other ways to guarantee fairness.

October 25, 2012 at 1:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

As long as we're playing legislature:

I have a concern that emerging schizophrenics - something that happens in the early 20s for the most part - are getting too easy access to high powered weapons.

I would trade spending cuts for raising the minimum age to buy assault rifles set to 30.

Would you take that deal?

October 25, 2012 at 1:39 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Miraweb said: "Mitt might get the opportunity to explain those views in detail to his roofing contractors. . .Though, he might need to work on his Spanish.

No, Miraweb. I heard that Romney has a binder full of names of Spanish speaking translators.

October 25, 2012 at 1:47 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

"There are many examples of companies going bnakrupt without divesting everything, K-mart comes to mind as one with no government involvement."

Yes, and that is because Sears bought them. NO ONE and NO ENTITY even offered a dime for GM. It would have been converted to a chapter 7 and liquidated...plain and simple.

No, actually K-mart bought Sears after they came out of bankruptcy and their new stock reached some pretty lofty levels. It is not as plain and simple as you state. GM would not have been liquidated had the government guaranteed loans to them post bankruptcy there would have been lenders anxious to make such loans.

October 25, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.
miraweb said...

ML - Nice. :)

October 25, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.
Leaf said...

Just in case you all missed it, the US has actually made a good bit of money on that GM stock. It turned out to be a good investment for the taxpayer.

Of course Mitt wanted Fed guaranteed loans! What a sweetheart deal those are for guys like him. You invest a hundred million you have lying around in your cayman islands account. If you lose it, the Feds give it back to you. If you make money, you get to keep it. And maybe you trickle some of it down to your servants. Where do I sign up? Oh, that's right, I'm not super-rich and connected. Darn.

October 25, 2012 at 2:36 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said....

When a person seeks out and gives his money to a well-known hedge fund “vulture” like Paul Singer at Elliott Management, the person can hardly claim that it was a “blind” transaction:

ML...do you know what a blind trust is? My initial investment is not blind, I know exactly where it is going and who will handle my money. Once a blind trust is executed the owner no longer participates in decisions and has no say regarding investments. It would be pretty stupid to set up a blind trust with someone that did not have a history of providing good returns. Or, someone I knew and trusted not to run off with or lose my money. Trust are regulated with the SEC and other regulators assuring compliance. Was there anything illegal about the trust you are criticizing Romney for or are you just PO'd because it did make huge returns? You have the option of investing in a trust. Keep in mind there is a risk of losing all or part of your investment. Would you believe Obama has a blind trust also?

Do you have children or grand children? You can set them up with a blind trust which means you no longer have control of the funds nor can they touch it until a future date you select. Some people put real estate in a trust for heirs. Banks are known for managing trust for people.

I keep forgetting that in your opinion Obama and the crats can do no wrong while Romney and the pubs can do nothing right. The truth is neither of them deserve any gold stars, they both get a fat "F".

October 25, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

ml posted....

Having bought up Delphi at fire-sale prices, Singer and his partners essentially blackmailed the Treasury into paying them billions so that Delphi would keep supplying parts to General Motors and Chrysler.

Have you considered what the alternative was? What would you have done? Why would it have been better to let those parts makers stay where they were and go bankrupt? Did you watch the hearings and hear what the auto executives were saying about assuring a continued supply of parts? Essentially doesn't mean they did blackmail them but the treasury realized that was the only way parts would continue flowing. They also realized those investing did not have to, they could invest in other businesses with less risk.

ml you may invest in a business so they can create jobs and be an example of benevolence and good will. To be honest I only invest to make the best possible return on the money I put at risk. I will sell in a heart beat any investment where poor management is indicated. I did sell GM short when it became evident they were going to go bankrupt. My profits paid for a new car but I used it to buy a Ford product, not GM. Do you think it terrible of me to do that? Do you own an American auto maker (GM, Ford, Chrysler) vehicle? I had three but now only have two. I hope you do but would bet you drive a foreign manufacturers auto.

October 25, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said...

I would trade spending cuts for raising the minimum age to buy assault rifles set to 30.

Would you take that deal?

I would, assuming the cuts were sufficient and lasting. If they aren't we may all need an assault weapon, things could get real ugly. I would go for banning them to age 50 or higher for eliminating uneccessary departments and freeze spending at current levels until the budget is balanced and the debt is less than 15% of GDP.

Coupled tax increases and cuts or uncoupled there is no way to escape the pain. It is just as any of experience when we decide we will not get more credit cards and will pay those maxed out off before we get hit with higher interest rates.

October 25, 2012 at 3:15 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... The Obama national security team had several hours to move forces from that same air base to Benghazi. We deserve an explanation."

HERE'S ONE FOR YOU STRAIGHT FROM CONDI RICE, NOW LETS SEE YOU ATTACK HER. Don't you ever get tired of looking stupid?? LOL

"Condi Rice Pours Cold Water On ‘Benghazi-Gate’ By Hayes Brown on Oct 25, 2012 at 1:07 pm

Former Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice broke with the majority of her party last night on Fox News, as she tried to hit the brakes on the right wing’s politicization of the recent attack in Libya.

Host Greta Van Susteren asked Rice directly and repeatedly about a set of emails uncovered by Reuters. In what has been dubbed “Benghazi-Gate,” the conservative media has jumped on the emails as definitive proof that the Obama administration has been lying about what it knew and when in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attack on a diplomatic mission in Benghazi. Rice’s response was likely not what Van Susteren expected:

RICE: But when things are unfolding very, very quickly, it’s not always easy to know what is really going on on the ground. And to my mind, the really important questions here are about how information was collected. Did the various agencies really coordinate and share intelligence in the way that we had hoped, with the reforms that were made after 9/11?

So there’s a big picture to be examined here. But we don’t have all of the pieces, and I think it’s easy to try and jump to conclusions about what might have happened here. It’s probably better to let the relevant bodies do their work."

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/10/25/1089691/condi-rice-pours-cold-water-libya/

October 25, 2012 at 3:16 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 hisses: “Do you know what a blind trust is? My initial investment is not blind, I know exactly where it is going and who will handle my money. Once a blind trust is executed the owner no longer participates in decisions and has no say regarding investments. It would be pretty stupid to set up a blind trust with someone that did not have a history of providing good returns. Or, someone I knew and trusted not to run off with or lose my money.

Where is the disagreement, Harp3339? As you aptly state, the initial investment is not blind and you know exactly where your money is going and who will handle it, which is exactly what I was pointing out in my earlier post to Degage.

And in Mitt Romney's case, he chose a well-known hedge fund vulture to handle his money. . . As they say, birds of feather flock together. . . Well, actually, I believe “wake” is the word reserved for a group of feeding vultures.

Anyway, surely, you’re not denying that Mitt's guy Singer is a known hedge fund vulture?

"Singer, whom Fortune magazine calls a “passionate defender of the 1%,” has carved out a specialty investing in distressed firms and distressed nations, which he does by buying up their debt for pennies on the dollar and then demanding payment in full. This so-called “vulture investor” received $58 million on Peruvian debt that he snapped up for $11.4 million, and $90 million on Congolese debt that he bought for a mere $20 million. In the process, he’s built one of the largest private equity firms in the nation, and over decades he’s racked up an unusually high average return on investments of 14 percent.

Other GOP presidential hopefuls chased Singer’s endorsement, but Mitt chased Singer with his own checkbook, investing at least $1 million with Elliott through Ann Romney’s blind trust (it could be far more, but the Romneys have declined to disclose exactly how much). Along the way, Singer gained a reputation, according to Fortune, “for strong-arming his way to profit.” That is certainly what happened at Delphi."

http://www.thenation.com/print/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout -bonanza

October 25, 2012 at 3:45 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... Looks like the Hipster-Dufus crowd is turning on TheObozo"

MAYBE LETTERMAN SHOULD HAVE READ THE ENDORSEMENT BELOW BEFORE HE MADE HIS COMMENTS. KEEP TRYING MAYBE EVENTUALLY YOU WILL FIND SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE DEBUNKED. SO FAR YOU'RE BATTING ZERO. LOL

"The Detroit News, a self-described conservative paper that endorsed Sen. John McCain in 2008, endorsed Mitt Romney Thursday, arguing that his 5-point economic plan could jumpstart the economy and saying President Obama has fallen short.

But the paper did pay tribute to Obama's rescue of the auto industry and said the endorsement of Romney comes "[d]espite his wrong-headedness on the auto bailout."

Don't assume that it was a no-brainer for a conservative newspaper to endorse a conservative presidential candidate. We recognize and are grateful for the extraordinary contribution President Obama made to Michigan in leading the rescue of General Motors and Chrysler…

We have said in past editorials that while Romney rightly advocated for structured bankruptcies in his infamous "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" New York Times op-ed, he was wrong in suggesting the automakers could have found operating capital in the private markets. In that article, Romney suggested government-backed loans to keep the companies afloat post bankruptcy. But what GM and Chrysler needed were bridge loans to get them through the process, and the private credit markets were unwilling to provide them...

Had Obama done as well with the rest of the economy, it would be hard to deny him a second term."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/detroit-news-endorses-romney-despite-his-wrong-headedness?ref=fpblg

October 25, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "GM would not have been liquidated had the government guaranteed loans to them post bankruptcy there would have been lenders anxious to make such loans."

Sir, go look up the case record. No bank would loan GM money, even with a proposal of a loan guarantee.

October 25, 2012 at 4:24 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... The Obama Campaign, that strange 4-year marriage of Generation X hipsters, inner city bosses, suburban college educated boomers longing for racial healing, Big Green businessmen and shady Saudis, appears to be finally sinking beneath the waves. It isn’t going out in a blaze of glory, but with mumbles of trending topics."

On Nov. 7th I don't expect you to be around at all should Romney lose. You and those like you will slither back into the slime from whence you emerged because you will not want to show your faces. However, not to worry I have taken the liberty of saving some of your most profound predictions just for posterity and ridicule should Romney lose. LOL

October 25, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

I see that Mitt Romney and the gang continue to support Mourdock. I wonder what other crimes the Republicans think are predestined and willed by God - or is it just violent crimes against women?

“WASHINGTON -- After initially keeping Richard Mourdock at arm's length for his assertion that pregnancies produced by rape are intended by God, prominent Republicans rallied around the embattled Indiana Senate candidate.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/25/richard-mourdock-rape_n_2017734.html

October 25, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.
ibshame said...

Ahh looks like Mittens is losing his Mojo. LOL

Oct. 24: In Polls, Romney’s Momentum Seems to Have Stopped By NATE SILVER The term “momentum” is used very often in political coverage — but reporters and analysts seldom pause to consider what it means..... Mr. Romney clearly gained ground in the polls in the week or two after the Denver debate, putting himself in a much stronger overall position in the race. However, it seems that he is no longer doing so.

Take Wednesday’s national tracking polls, for instance. (There are now eight of them published each day.) Mr. Romney gained ground in just one of the polls, an online poll conducted for Reuters by the polling organization Ipsos. He lost ground in five others, with President Obama improving his standing instead in those surveys. On average, Mr. Obama gained about one point between the eight polls. This is the closest that we’ve come in a week or so to one candidate clearly having “won” the day in the tracking polls — and it was Mr. Obama......

Our “now-cast” also finds a slightly favorable trend for Mr. Obama over the course of the past 10 days or so. Mr. Romney’s position peaked in the “now-cast” on Friday, Oct. 12, at which point it estimated a virtual tie in the popular vote (Mr. Obama was the projected “winner” by 0.3 percentage points). As of Wednesday, however, Mr. Obama was 1.4 percentage points ahead in the “now-cast,” meaning that he may have regained about 1 percentage point of the 4 points or so that he lost after Denver. Mr. Obama’s chances of winning the Electoral College were up in the FiveThirtyEight forecast to 71 percent on Wednesday from 68.1 percent on Tuesday.....

The battleground state polls that came in on Wednesday were generally very close to our model’s current projections. For instance, there were three Ohio polls published on Wednesday; one showed a tied race there, while the other two showed Mr. Obama ahead by margins of two and five points.That’s pretty much what you’d expect to see out of a trio of Ohio polls if Mr. Obama’s lead there were about two points, which is where our model now has it.

Some of the polls, especially the Time magazine poll which had Mr. Obama five points ahead in Ohio, seemed to set off a lot of discussion on Twitter, as though people were surprised that Mr. Obama still held the lead there.

But these polls are really nothing new. Since the Denver debate, Mr. Obama has held the lead in 16 Ohio polls against 6 for Mr. Romney. In Nevada, Mr. Obama has had the lead in 11 polls, to Mr. Romney’s 1. Mr. Obama has led in all polls of Wisconsin since the Denver debate, and he has had five poll leads in Iowa to one for Mr. Romney.

Part of the confusion (and part of the reason behind the perception that Mr. Romney is still gaining ground in the race) may be because of the headlines that accompany polls....

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/oct-24-in-polls-romneys-momentum-seems-to-have-stopped/

October 25, 2012 at 5:15 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... Man this has got to be getting weird for you Libtards. The recent AP-GfK poll has Romney pulling even with TheObozo among women at 47-47 after being behind by 16 points earlier."

As long as Romney has Akins - the guy who believes a woman can shut her body down during a "legitimate rape" to prevent pregnancy, Mourdock - a man who believes somehow God has Sanctioned Rape and Ryan-the guy who believes an embroyo is protected by the 14th amendment, losing the women vote is the last thing President Obama will have to worry about. Mourdock just made sure of that. I suppose one could say "GOD MEANT THAT TO HAPPEN." LOL

October 25, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

I note that Colin Powell has endorsed President Obama:

“It turns out that Mitt Romney has not managed to snare every member of the Bush administration national security team that brought us the pointless and bloody invasion of Iraq, Abu Ghraib and the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.

He missed the one high-level team member who actually realized what catastrophic mistakes those decisions were – Colin L. Powell.

“I think we ought to keep on the track that we are on,” Mr. Powell said on CBS this morning. “I voted for him in 2008 and I plan to stick with him in 2012.”

Mr. Powell said he supported Mr. Obama in part because he is ending the war in Afghanistan and has a strong counter-terrorism record. “There’s some very, very strong neo-conservative views that are presented by the governor that I have some trouble with,” he said.

“I’m not quite sure which Governor Romney we’d be getting with respect to foreign policy,” he said. . .

It’s a group that Mr. Powell is right to fear. After all, he was George W. Bush’s Secretary of State, Bill Clinton’s and George H.W. Bush’s Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Ronald Reagan’s national security adviser. He knows a neo-con when he sees one.”

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/colin-powell-endorses-obama/

October 25, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

In Ohio, Biden Talks About All the Ads Being Run 'Here in Iowa'

http://nation.foxnews.com/joe-biden/2012/10/24/ohio-biden-talks-about-all-ads-being-run-here-iowa

Oops! Obama Says He Wants Wind Turbines 'Manufactured Here in China'

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/10/24/oops-obama-just-said-he-wants-wind-turbines-manufactured-here-china

Now we know why Obama won't release his college transcripts. Freakin' idiot. Maybe he thinks China is the 57th state.

October 25, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

mountainoyster is out of the loop. It's been well known for years that Powell is a liberal lover. Old news.

October 25, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Slinky's V.P. choice Paul Ryan tries to trick poverty level voters in Cleveland:

“Paul Ryan gave a speech on poverty and economic mobility.

No, that’s not the beginning of one of those a-man-walks-into-a-bar jokes. It actually happened.

Ryan delivered the speech Wednesday in Cleveland. “In this war on poverty,” he said, “poverty is winning.” What he didn’t say is that he and his budget have taken sides in that war — and not on the side of the poor.

This is just the latest of Mitt Romney’s home-stretch attempts to kick up the dust of confusion, soften harsh rhetoric and policies, and slip into the White House.

But there’s a problem: Ryan’s budget was actually printed — on paper, at that. It was passed by the House in March. It can be examined and evaluated.

At one point on Wednesday, Ryan said: “Where government is entrusted with providing a safety net, Mitt Romney and I have our own vision for how to keep it strong.”

Well, let’s see what the paper trail says.

According to a March Report from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s budget plan would get at least 62 percent of its $5.3 trillion in nondefense budget cuts over ten years (relative to a continuation of current policies) from programs that serve people of limited means. This stands a core principle of President Obama’s fiscal commission on its head and violates basic principles of fairness.”

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/paul-ryans-poverty-play/

October 25, 2012 at 6:34 p.m.
miraweb said...

I said...

I would trade spending cuts for raising the minimum age to buy assault rifles set to 30.

Would you take that deal?

harp answered - I would, assuming the cuts were sufficient and lasting. If they aren't we may all need an assault weapon, things could get real ugly. I would go for banning them to age 50 or higher for eliminating uneccessary departments and freeze spending at current levels until the budget is balanced and the debt is less than 15% of GDP.

And that's how you start talking.

It's fair to ask for something you want if a deal means that you have to give up something else.

There are an awful lot of things on the table that could get us to a better place for everyone but the taxes vs spending pissing match is a badly mangled negotiation.

It may be good television but it is really bad policy.

October 25, 2012 at 6:38 p.m.
miraweb said...

So how about the age to buy assault rifles is the same age to run for President. In exchange I will toss in BRP's Harley. He keeps thinking I want to steal his stuff, so it only seems fair to try.

Hanged for a lamb - hanged for a sheep.

October 25, 2012 at 6:45 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

TOES02800 says: "mountainoyster is out of the loop. It's been well known for years that Powell is a liberal lover. Old news."

Get real, TOES02800. Colin Powell is a Republican. He was President Reagan’s national security adviser; Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton’s Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and President George W. Bush’s, Secretary of State, which is probably where he learned to distrust the neo-cons – as anyone with the slightest bit of common sense would.

October 25, 2012 at 6:57 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Republican or not. Powell has been turnin' liberal for damn near a decade now. Again, you're out of the loop if you didn't know that.

The Democratic Party’s resident useful idiot, Colin Powell, endorses Obama….again

http://thoughtsandrantings.com/2012/10/25/the-democratic-partys-resident-useful-idiot-colin-powell-endorses-obama-again/

October 25, 2012 at 7:23 p.m.
miraweb said...

I don't have too much trouble with a grown man who occasionally swears.

Even this one:

Of course, Romney has people to handle that:

October 25, 2012 at 7:54 p.m.
miraweb said...

Ann Romney, of course, is just itchy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wKfmpjRzLE

October 25, 2012 at 8:01 p.m.
miraweb said...

Hmmmm. I Wonder Why They Call It The Persian Gulf?

I hope those security briefings Romney is getting include a few maps. Unless they moved Iraq, there is a little problem with that geography.


Mitt Romney is not particularly new to gaffes but when it comes to one about the relationship between Syria and Iran, he has shown extraordinary courage in repeating it at least six times just in the past year.

During last night's foreign policy debate, Romney said: "Syria is Iran's only ally in the Arab world. It's their route to the sea."

In fact, Iran, a close ally of Bashar al-Assad's regime, has direct access to international waters through its large coastline on the Gulf and is not even a neighbour to Syria in order to rely on it as a route to the sea.

In March, Romney made the exact gaffe at AIPAC conference.

"Maybe one of the few bright spots in the Middle East developments in the last year has been the rising of the people in Syria against Assad. Obviously, as you know, Syria is Iran's only Arab ally in the region. Syria is the route that allows Iran to supply Hezbollah with weapons in Lebanon. Syria is Iran's route to the sea," he said, according to the Washington Post, which fact-checked his remarks back then.

The US presidential candidate has also previously repeated the reference including in a CNN presidential primary debate in Arizona in February. "Syria is their key ally. It's their only ally in the Arab world. It is also their route to the sea," he said at the time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iran-blog/2012/oct/23/romney-gaffe-syria-iran-route-to-sea

October 25, 2012 at 8:10 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said.....

And that's how you start talking.

It's fair to ask for something you want if a deal means that you have to give up something else.

True. I much prefer the term reconcile instead of compromise, there is a difference.

October 25, 2012 at 8:30 p.m.
miraweb said...

I like reconcile. That's a good word.

October 25, 2012 at 8:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: ML...do you know what a blind trust is? My initial investment is not blind, I know exactly where it is going and who will handle my money. Once a blind trust is executed the owner no longer participates in decisions and has no say regarding investments."**

You are correct. That is the way a blind trust is supposed to work. However, the person who sets up the trust is not locked out of decision making. They merely give power-of-attorney to a trustee, which authorizes the trustee to make investment decisions on behalf of the client. Heirs of a blind trust are quite often locked out.

The investment manager for the last decade of Mitt's blind trust is R. Bradford Malt, who is employed by the same firm that represents Bain Capital. The two men have known each other since 1990, according to The Boston Globe.

Mitt's blind trust is only certified in the State of Massachusetts. If he becomes President, he will be required to move his money into a federal blind trust overseen by the Office of Government Ethics, to ensure there are no conflicts of interest.

According to OGE's standards, it's unlikely that Malt will qualify as an independent trustee because of his ties to Bain and long-standing relationship with Romney.

The Boston Globe reported that Malt opened and closed a Swiss bank account and unloaded problematic investments, like shares in CNOOC, China's state-owned oil company, which has ties to Iran, since he has been running for President. The New York Times reported several investment maneuvers that involved managed holdings in the Cayman Islands.

Suspicions have plagued Romney's offshore investment practices, in that they most likely included tricky high finance and the hiding of funds. Malt claimed that the Swiss bank account was, for example, just another way to "diversify" Romney’s money.

"It was a bank account. Nothing more, nothing less."

When Malt has been contacted by reporters for details regarding his investments, Malt has always deferred to the Romney campaign.

Romney spokeswoman Michelle Davis stated, "As we've said before, the trustee of the blind trust has said publicly that he will endeavor to make the investments in the blind trust conform to Gov. Romney's positions, and whenever it comes to his attention that there is something inconsistent, he ends the investment."

Hhhmmmmmm...

Blind trusts are expensive to establish and run, and are not always that blind, which can lead to political repercussions. Even Romney himself referred to blind trusts in 1994 as an "age-old ruse. You can always tell a blind trust what it can and cannot do. You give a blind trust rules."

Believing that a man like Mitt Romney is not on top of what his trust(s) is/are doing, and what investments are or are not being made, is strictly a leap of faith.

October 25, 2012 at 9:01 p.m.
GameOn said...

Obama broke with colleagues, voted present on protecting rape victims in ’99 state Senate vote.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/25/flashback-obama-broke-with-colleagues-voted-against-protecting-rape-victims-in-99-state-senate-vote/#ixzz2AMXV79Lw

October 25, 2012 at 9:03 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said....

Anyway, surely, you’re not denying that Mitt's guy Singer is a known hedge fund vulture?

I do not agree that he is a "vulture".

"Singer has carved out a specialty investing in distressed firms and distressed nations, which he does by buying up their debt for pennies on the dollar and then demanding payment in full.

This so-called “vulture investor” received $58 million on Peruvian debt that he snapped up for $11.4 million, and $90 million on Congolese debt that he bought for a mere $20 million. In the process, he’s built one of the largest private equity firms in the nation, and over decades he’s racked up an unusually high average return on investments of 14 percent.

Any idea why they would willingly sell the debt so cheap? You do realize the seller of the debt took a loss. Peru owed someone 58 million that willingly took 11.4 taking a 46.6mm loss.

I see nothing wrong with his building a large firm and providing a good return to investors. I don't think hedge fund managers should be able to pay taxes on their personal income at the capital gains rate but congress has no problem with that, I think I know why, do you?

Mitt chased Singer with his own checkbook, investing at least $1 million with Elliott through Ann Romney’s blind trust (it could be far more, but the Romneys have declined to disclose exactly how much).

Why should they? Who considers a persons wealth when trying to select between candidates. Super wealthy may be good since per Maslow's theory they are not seeking the position to make more money.

Along the way, Singer gained a reputation, according to Fortune, “for strong-arming his way to profit.” That is certainly what happened at Delphi."

How did he according to fortune "strong arm" them without their cooperation? Business and investing is not charity.... In a capitalist system there are winners and losers. In a socialist system there are primarily government owned mediocre with many that limp along until they fail.

Singer manages a hedge fund, 14% is not so great considering the risk involved and the number that have gone under.

What he did and what he does is perfectly legal and public knowledge. Why would I put my money in a company or with a fund manager that was weak and waffling around? Delphi was in debt, had not funded employee pensions and many other symptoms of p-poor management and union concessions, they would have folded and not delivered to the auto makers.

Singer cannot force anybody to sign any contract or agreement but he can elect not to invest in their business, he could have made it without Delphi but could they have made it without him?

Do you think the government should nationalize and run every business?

October 25, 2012 at 9:36 p.m.
miraweb said...

If you need a break from the election:

A rather nice piece in the BBC on the venerable art of political cartooning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20087889

October 25, 2012 at 9:37 p.m.
miraweb said...

Isn't Elliott Capital the same fine company that just repossessed the Argentine Navy's Tall Ship Libertad? Elliott refused two restructuring deals in 2005 and 2010, holding out for more money after Argentina's debt default.

Argentina’s foreign minister, Héctor Timerman, said in a statement, “The vulture funds have crossed a boundary in their attacks on the Argentine republic.” He said the seizure violated the Vienna Convention, which grants military vessels diplomatic immunity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/world/americas/seizure-of-argentine-ship-forces-shake-up.html?_r=0


That could get really complicated if Romney wins and he has any fingers in that pie.

October 25, 2012 at 9:44 p.m.
miraweb said...

I visited the Libertad when it was in Boston. It's a beautiful vessel.

October 25, 2012 at 9:45 p.m.
alprova said...

What the latest polls are suggesting;

Current Electoral Vote counts - Obama - 235, Romney - 203

Obama has a 71% chance of reelection. Romney has a 29% change of being elected.

The Senate has an 87% change of retaining a Democratic majority, and a 12.5% chance of a Republican majority.

Presidential Electoral likely outcomes (Based on the most recent polling results)

Colorado - 9 electoral votes - 53% chance it will go to Obama.

Florida - 29 EV's - 67% chance it will go to Romney.

Iowa 6 - EV's - 67% chance it will go to Obama.

Nevada - 6 EV's - 73% chance it will go to Obama.

New Hampshire - 4 EV's - 67% chance it will go to Obama.

North Carolina - 15 EV's - 85% chance it will go to Romney.

Ohio - 18 EV's - 63% chance that it will go to Obama.

Virginia - 13 EV's - 53% chance it will go to Obama.

Projected electoral vote count (based on the most recent polling results in the swing states)

Obama - 291, Romney - 247

Bye, Bye Mitt & Paul...

October 25, 2012 at 9:54 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Do the tires on the car in the toon look like they're properly inflated? After all, that was the Bamster's energy policy in 2008..."If you all would just inflate your tires"

October 25, 2012 at 10:22 p.m.
miraweb said...

The crowdsourcing question on the AP-GfK poll also is leaning hard for Obama:

"Regardless of how you might vote, do you think President Barack Obama will be reelected or will be voted out of office?"

Date - Reelected - Voted out of office - Unsure

10/19-23/12 - 58 - 28 - 14

http://pollingreport.com/wh12.htm

October 25, 2012 at 10:23 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said... Isn't Elliott Capital the same fine company that just repossessed the Argentine Navy's Tall Ship Libertad? Elliott refused two restructuring deals in 2005 and 2010, holding out for more money after Argentina's debt default.

Sounds like the right thing to do when someone defaults on a debt. I would hope he wouldn't agree to less than full value which the term restructuring normally means.

What would you do if you loaned someone money and they would not pay you as agreed? Once you show weakness you know what happens.

October 26, 2012 at 1:41 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said......

You are correct. That is the way a blind trust is supposed to work. However, the person who sets up the trust is not locked out of decision making.

You are not correct. The reason it is called a "blind trust" is;

A blind trust is a trust in which the fiduciaries, namely the trustees or those who have been given power of attorney, have full discretion over the assets, and the trust beneficiaries have no knowledge of the holdings of the trust and no right to intervene in their handling.

You can provide some rules like some investments you do not want to participate in if the trustee agrees when the money is placed with them.

October 26, 2012 at 5:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

Mitt's blind trust is only certified in the State of Massachusetts. If he becomes President, he will be required to move his money into a federal blind trust overseen by the Office of Government Ethics, to ensure there are no conflicts of interest.

It seems the OGE has the ability to over see and monitor any blind trust. Should they not be able to or conclude there is a conflict the trustor would be advised and would need to reconcile the issue.

alprova posted....

Romney spokeswoman Michelle Davis stated, "As we've said before, the trustee of the blind trust has said publicly that he will endeavor to make the investments in the blind trust conform to Gov. Romney's positions, and whenever it comes to his attention that there is something inconsistent, he ends the investment."

That sounds reasonable but is at the discretion of the trustee and not up to the trustor.

It is not a leap of faith but a legal requirement that the trustor not be involved in the trustees decision making.

October 26, 2012 at 5:43 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova...

Thanks for the polling data. I am not going to make the bet on Obama I had planned to. I still think he will win but not enough to put $8,000 up to win $10,000 or $80,000 to win $100,000. It is too close to call and too close for those odds. I still wonder if the odds makers in Vegas aren't much better at making the odds on sports than politics. Or, do they think they know something we don't? Heck, Nevada looks like a lock for Obama which is not a surprise. Maybe I should try to place the bet to see if Root the odds maker has someone willing to take the wager or if he is just talking big.

I will vote for Johnson as a matter of personal principles but hope Romney is able to win since, in my opinion, he would be more likely to head off the devastation of Obama and his inept gang.

October 26, 2012 at 7:32 a.m.
fairmon said...

The White House is in a lose lose situation regarding the Libya embassy attacks and the death of the four Americans. Not knowing shows how inept they are while if they did know they will confirm they are not being honest. I don't blame Obama, he can't micromanage everything, but someone in his administration failed and hung him out to dry. Some people seem to think the person in charge of the largest entity on earth can keep up with every event in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if someone ask him what he thought about the gangs situation and shootings happening in Chattanooga.

October 26, 2012 at 7:47 a.m.
conservative said...

Oh, it's crying time again...

Tennessee appeals court upholds voter ID law, says is constitutional

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/26/us-usa-tennessee-photoid-idUSBRE89P05T20121026?feedType=RSS

October 26, 2012 at 8:46 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp, you do live in fantasy land. Mitt's current blind trust is anything but blind to the man, and you're walking around with blinders on if you believe for one second that Mitt Romney's trust is totally blind to him.

October 26, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
dude_abides said...

harp comes out swinging more and more for Mitt as the election nears. He insults everyone when he claims to be neutral.

October 26, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
mymy said...

Benghazi

They Knew, They Lied to the American People Again!!

Time for the Liar n Chief and co. to go!

11 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country/National Security here/abroad and the growing debt.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Romney/Ryan 2012

October 26, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

The mast retarded and, quite frankly, creepy campaign video of all time.

Lena Dunham: Your First Time

October 26, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

harp3339 said... "The White House is in a lose lose situation regarding the Libya embassy attacks and the death of the four Americans. Not knowing shows how inept they are while if they did know they will confirm they are not being honest. I don't blame Obama, he can't micromanage everything, but someone in his administration failed and hung him out to dry."

Obama is the one who surrounded himself with incompetent ideologues. His is absolutely responsible for the results.

October 26, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
degage said...

Another scandal, Abound Solar with ties to democratic fundraiser go belly up and is under criminal investigation. Just one more Obama funded green energy scams that he touted and used taxpayers money for.So much for his judgement on good investment for tax payers.

October 26, 2012 at 9:48 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

TOES02800 said: "Powell has been turnin' liberal for damn near a decade now. Again, you're out of the loop if you didn't know that."

No, TOES02800. Colin Powell is not the one who has changed. He is still a Republican. What’s changed is the Republican Party. The Republican party leadership has been taken over by a lunatic fringe. It started when George W. Bush brought in the neo-cons who brought in the lunatic fringe, and it’s been downhill ever since. The reason you can’t relate to a Republican like Colin Powell is because he’s one of those healthy-minded Republicans.

October 26, 2012 at 9:49 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Excellent, toes! Not only did you post the wicked word simultaneously with my post, but you misspelled 'most!' Outstanding!

October 26, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Colin Powell ruined his political career for the neocons and they have tossed him out with the trash. This should be a lesson to any conservative African American.

October 26, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.
degage said...

Aren't we picky now Dude.You never make a mistake when typing? Of course you do but it is different when you do it.

October 26, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “I do not agree that he is a "vulture". Business and investing is not charity.... In a capitalist system there are winners and losers etc.,etc.,etc.”

Well, I’ll be darned. So it was the use of the word “vulture” that unsettled you. Well, Harp3339, I suspect this is something you’re going to have to accept. It’s just one of those things that comes with the territory. Personally, I can fully understand why Paul Singer’s peers use the word “vulture investor" to describe his line of work. It's a perfect description.

Mitt Romney’s problem is that he wants it both ways and he can’t have it both ways. He simply can’t go around claiming that he’d never do anything to hurt the U.S. auto industry when he went out of his way to do something that he knew would hurt the U.S. auto industry. People are going to call him on it. Mitt Romney knew that Paul Singer was a vulture investor and Mitt Romney knew darn well what his partner would be doing when he gave him his money.

The bottom line is that the U.S. auto industry, its jobs, and its worker pension funds were less important to Mitt Romney that his profits. He saw the potential to make millions and millions of dollars for himself by exploiting the situation so he did it. There was nothing about “blind” about the transaction, and Mitt Romney knows it - everybody knows it.

October 26, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.
fairmon said...

dude_abides said...

harp comes out swinging more and more for Mitt as the election nears. He insults everyone when he claims to be neutral.

I will vote for Gary Johnson but I have not hid the fact that between Obumble and Romney I prefer Romney but not enough to vote for him. In my opinion, which totally differs from yours, Obama is the weakest president and leader from FDR forward. Would you hire Obama to manage a business you owned?

October 26, 2012 at 10:01 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Duped spells like a five year old. With extremely thin skin. A bubble boy perhaps?

Obama: "I bowled a 129," he told Leno.

"That's very good, Mr. President," Leno said sarcastically.

But then came the foot-in-mouth moment: "It's like the Special Olympics or something," the president said.

How dare Obama make fun of the special needs children!!

October 26, 2012 at 10:21 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Wisconsin company announces layoffs ahead of Biden arrival

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wisconsin-company-announces-layoffs-ahead-of-biden-arrival/article/2511762#.UIqc7cXA88h

Awesome! Biden can tell these 450 people how GREAT the economy is doing!!

October 26, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Jeep, an Obama favorite, looks to shift production to China

'Well it appears that the taxpayer bailed-out Chrysler is looking back and now considering cutting costs by shifting production of all Jeeps to China, which has a strong desire for Jeeps".

http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703#.UIqd2cXA88i

Awwww man!!

October 26, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said....

So it was the use of the word “vulture” that unsettled you. Well, Harp3339, I suspect this is something you’re going to have to accept. It’s just one of those things that comes with the territory. Personally, I can fully understand why Paul Singer’s peers use the word “vulture investor" to describe his line of work. It's a perfect description.

No, I don't have to accept or agree with the term I do have to accept that some ignorant people will use it. However, vultures do play a worth while role in the world. They clean up dead animals from the environment including road kill. So, it may not be all that derogatory. I am like Hilary; An email, a posting on face book does not make it a fact nor do peer opinions make it a fact.

I notice you ignored everything but the labeling. Why did Delphi agree to the terms offered? Why had Delphi allowed the pensions to go unfunded? What was Delphi's plan to stop a burn rate almost as high as their revenue much less profits and cash flow? Those same critics labeling the fund manager would attack banks if they had loaned them more money and they defaulted on the loan. They most certainly would have since they were already unable to meet their financial obligations.

You read those articles by someone that writes articles with an opinion expected to sell news print. They target readers like you, you read with them with a "me to attitude" agree and join in the rock throwing mob. Neither of you recommend a viable option or comment on what the fund manager should do that would still be in the best interest of those whose money he is managing and provide them a good return. What would you do?

You do realize hedge funds are high risk speculation knowing there will be losses but hopefully the profit from winners are more than the losers. Usually one million dollars is the minimum investment to assure only those that can afford the loss participate. You may take delight in how many hedge funds actually have gone bankrupt with investors losing essentially everything they invested.

October 26, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
jesse said...

39 idjits posting on a cartoon by a political HACK! Making every body in the Chatta. area look like a bunch of LOONS!! How ya like them apples T.Q and al!Dude and esp.nooga! BTW: nooga ,i JUST got back from Telico,had a blast and HUNG a 16 " rainbow" on a fly rod!!(north river!)

October 26, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.
conservative said...

All of you kooks and loons need to read Mr. Cooks column and then vote for the Green Party candidate Martin Pleasant for U.S. Senate, whom Cook gave a plug for.

October 26, 2012 at 10:48 a.m.
BobMKE said...

Alpo,

Regarding your electoral prediction, (Oblamea 291 Romney 247) I would have to disagree with you. The people in this Country, after four years, have come to realize that Oblamea has been a failure, and people do not care for failures/losers. They realize now that he was over his head and he was just an empty suit from Chicago who used his natural talent of using smoke and mirrors, along with his teleprompter prowess. They have finally seen his real demeanor as a narcissist, snarkey toward people, full himself, lectures everyone, drones on, and became predictable. The people didn’t hear anything new from him so they became turned off by all of this. Oblamea can’t gasp the fact that he really did himself in when he thought that he is impregnable because of his advisers and having the media in his back pocket. He took this demeanor into the debates and went against Romney, who obliviously took Bill Cristal’s (from the Weekly Standard) advice, to always look and act Presidential. The biggest reason that Oblamea will not be reelected is that the people now have reasons not to vote for him and they are now off the hook and don’t have to feel guilty voting against him.

As I listed before, Romney will receive 318 electoral votes, and on January 20, 2013 he will be sworn in as the next President of the United States. (January 20th is my and Clay’s birthday, so I will be really happy that day, and Clay won’t)

October 26, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
patriot1 said...

dude, is Colin Powell African American?

October 26, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
dude_abides said...

degage said... "Aren't we picky now Dude.You never make a mistake when typing? Of course you do but it is different when you do it."

Sorry degage, I just love it when someone (toes, for instance) spells a word wrong when insulting others' intellect and slurring challenged people.

degage, don't you agree that John Franklin Stephens was articulate and cogent when addressing Ann Coulter's statements? Don't you also agree that she should stop using that word?

October 26, 2012 at 11:09 a.m.
dude_abides said...

patriot1 said... "dude, is Colin Powell African American?"

As sure as you are a Nazi. When I think of all the African Americans who have died fighting our wars, it turns my stomach that you spit on their service and sacrifice... and call yourself a patriot.

October 26, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
jesse said...

Hey Dude! You ARE w/o a doubt #1 phyhotic!#2 delusional!#3 Rabid! In your childhood some one musta BEAT on your azz dailey!

October 26, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Romney didn't load up on Staples stock, devastating Allred's case

Another arrow that don't stick. It's getting more fun by the day.

October 26, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama makes fun of the Special Olympic's kids and not a peep out of dupe. How strange this dupe.

October 26, 2012 at 11:40 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Spending on White House dinners soars under Obama

The Obama extravaganza two years ago for Mexican President Felipe Calderon, which included a performance by pop star Beyonce, cost $969,793, or more than $4,700 per attendee, the documents show.

The Calderon dinner was held on the South Lawn in a massive tent adorned with decorated walls, hanging chandeliers, carpeting and a stage for Beyonce's performance.

A man for the working people? You people are fools.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/spending-on-white-house-dinners-soars-under-obama/article/2511758#.UIqv5MXA88i

October 26, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
ibshame said...

The Romney campaign's fear of Nate Silver.

"..... Where most political commentators output is the product of briefings, gossip and personal perception, Silver deals in cold, hard facts. And at the moment, Silver’s facts are being fired like bullets into the heart of the Romney campaign.

Over the past week Romney has had a clear strategy; give the impression of momentum. Demonstrate the post-debate surge is continuing. Get people talking about how the race is his to lose....

We’ve even had the spectacle of Romney campaign officials starting to brief reporters on their transition plans and possible cabinet appointments. Picking members of your new administration; you don’t get much bigger mo than that.

And then, slap bang in the middle of all this surging and sprinting, up pops that geeky killjoy Silver. “In polls, Romney’s momentum seems to have stopped,” he announced in a blog yesterday. Coolly and calmly, Silver set about dismantling the Romney bandwagon. ....Nate Silver is Mitt Romney’s nemesis....

.... People listen to Silver. And over the past 48 hours, the narrative is starting to shift. “Mitt-mentum? Not so fast” – US News & World report. “Romney’s Momentum Seems To Have Stopped” – Political Wire. “The momentum myth” – Washington Post.

In fact, Silver is proving so damaging to their chances that Republican’s are drawing up a strategy for countering him. “Nate Silver continues to lead the Democrat Graveyard whistling choir”, Republican blogger Robert Stacy McCain wrote on Tuesday. National Review decried “Nate Silver’s Flawed Model”. “Everyone but Nate Silver thinks Obama’s lead is evaporating fast”, said Business Insider....

But the number’s don’t lie. At the start of this week, Barack Obama’s chances of winning Ohio were 70 per cent. Today they’re at 75. Wisconsin has moved up to 86 per cent, Nevada 78, Iowa 68, New Hampshire 69, Colorado 57, Virginia 54. Overall, his chance of wining is now put at 73 per cent, his highest for 18 days. That's not momentum; that's Omentum...."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100186641/nate-silver-the-geeky-statistician-who-is-singlehandedly-dismantling-the-myth-of-mitt-mentum/#disqus_thread

October 26, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
degage said...

Never heard of Nate Silver, He must be a liberal like the rest of you kooks.

October 26, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.
ibshame said...

"patriot1 said... dude, is Colin Powell African American?"

Is it your contention like that of the loon John Sununu the only reason Colin Powell has endorsed President Obama is because President Obama is African American? Instead of disavowing this statement from one of their surrogates, Romney has remained silent. To paraphrase: Silence gives consent.

If Romney should lose the election, the race baiting(not just against African Americans but Latinos as well)and the war against women are issues that are going to backfire on the Republican Party for a long time to come. It couldn't happen to a better group of wing nuts.

October 26, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.
ibshame said...

"degage said... Never heard of Nate Silver, He must be a liberal like the rest of you kooks."

Considering some of the comments you have written, I'm not the least surprised. You definitely are one of the "low-information" posters.

October 26, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

libshame: And you are one of the "high information" posters? Too freakin funny.

October 26, 2012 at 1 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... IBeAshamed Needs An Intervention:"

Fortunately, you don't have what it takes to provide me with an intervention and that became obvious from the day you arrived with your "Libtard" responses and your LMAO endings. You cut and paste and provide nothing more than constant bullsh*t that is so easily debunked. But keep hope alive. I'm sure one day you just might stumble up on something original.

As I stated the other day, I have taken the liberty to keep some of your more "profound" predictions concerning the outcome of the election. Should Romney lose I am going to be more than happy to repost them each time you post following the election. Of course, I don't really expect we'll be seeing much of you should that happen. Your kind rarely sticks around. LOL

October 26, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
ibshame said...

"Jack_Dennis said... libshame: And you are one of the "high information" posters? Too freakin funny"

Considering the contributions you usually make as evidenced by the one above, you are clearly one of the "low-information" voters. The fact you think you're not is what makes your responses easy pickings.

October 26, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
degage said...

IBS, if it comes from a ultra liberal yes, as you are from a conservative. two sides and we are on opposite sides. I tend to believe you are ultra liberal and a bit like the socialist Obama. Obama claims he is not but he says he identifies with marxist professors in his book. That tells me a lot about his agenda and yours. Al, he did say that in his book. You could not have read his books if you continue to say he didn't say so. I'm going back to previous day when you said I didn't read his book because he didn't say those things . So if you had read them you would know better.

October 26, 2012 at 1:25 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

libshame: I don't pretend to be a "high information" poster. Nor should you. Anyone can cut and paste from partisan sites. What's informational about that? You think Cliff Claven ALPO is informational? Bwahahaha

October 26, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.
alprova said...

BobMKE wrote: **"Alpo, Regarding your electoral prediction, (Oblamea 291 Romney 247) I would have to disagree with you.

Disagree all you want, but that prediction is based on the results of over recent 64 polls. There's nothing cherry-picked. The results are averaged over a wide spectrum of respondents.

"As I listed before, Romney will receive 318 electoral votes, and on January 20, 2013 he will be sworn in as the next President of the United States."

I have no idea what you base that result upon. You can cherry-pick every poll out there and not come up with enough to substantiate a prediction of 318 electoral votes for the Mittster.

I'd love to learn more about your source of information though.

October 26, 2012 at 1:54 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Alpo,

I look into so many polls, past election predictions, opinions, and what later really happened, so I guess I'm an election junkie. Also re-read my 10:56 a.m. post because it is my opinion why Oblamea has lost ground, and will further lose ground, because the Libya killings, and cover up. So to answer your question I have to inform you that I use the; B.A.L. (Blind A$$ Luck) & the S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess) methods.

October 26, 2012 at 2:20 p.m.
joneses said...

I canot understand why anyone in their right mind would vote for this POS that occupies the White House and Joe Bite me and Billary Clinton. They are heartless and disgusting and will take this country to ruin. it has been reported today that the U.S. Embassy in Benghazi was denied help after three request by the Hussein Obama administration. Hussein Obama is that pathetic and he should be tried for treason.

Former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods was one of four Americans killed in the terrorist assault on the U.S. Consulate in Libya on Sept. 11. The father of one of the former Navy SEALs killed in the terrorist attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya says President Barack Obama wouldn’t even look him in the eye and Vice President Joe Biden was disrespectful during the ceremony when his son’s body returned to America. He also says the White House’s story on the attack doesn’t pass the smell test. Charles Woods, father of Tyrone Woods, called into “The Glenn Beck Program” on TheBlazeTV Thursday and recounted his interactions with the president, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Biden at the ceremony for the Libya victims at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. He told host Glenn Beck that what they told him, coupled with new reports that indicate the Obama administration knew very good and well, almost immediately, that a terrorist attack was occurring in Benghazi, make him certain that the American people are not getting the whole truth. Vice President Biden, as he has become known to do, reportedly made a wildly inappropriate comment to the father who had just lost his hero son. Woods said Biden came over to his family and asked in a “loud and boisterous” voice, “Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?” “Are these the words of someone who is sorry?” said Woods.

October 26, 2012 at 2:25 p.m.
joneses said...

The grieving father also described his brief encounter with President Obama during the ceremony for the Libya victims. “When he finally came over to where we were, I could tell that he was rather conflicted, a person who was not at peace with himself,” Woods said. “Shaking hands with him, quite frankly, was like shaking hands with a dead fish. His face was pointed towards me but he would not look me in the eye, his eyes were over my shoulder.” “I could tell that he was not sorry,” he added. “He had no remorse.” Beck said he wanted to give the president “the benefit of the doubt,” and asked Woods how he could be sure that Obama wasn’t just uncomfortable or nervous during their conversation. Woods said it was Obama’s “demeanor.”

October 26, 2012 at 2:26 p.m.
joneses said...

Hillary Clinton’s comments to Woods raise even more questions about the White House’s official story on the Benghazi attack, which has already been extremely inconsistent. After apologizing for his loss, Woods said Clinton told him that the U.S. would “make sure that the person who made that film is arrested and prosecuted.” Obviously, Clinton was referring to the anti-Muslim YouTube video that the Obama administration spent nearly two weeks blaming for the attack. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice, Clinton and the president himself all blamed the video at various points. Beck pointed out that the White House is now trying to claim that it has always considered terrorism as the cause of the attack. “When she said that, I could tell that she was not telling me the truth,” Woods said about Clinton.

October 26, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.
joneses said...

Reading another State Department email that further calls into question the U.S. response to the attack, Beck revealed that the U.S. government was made aware that the compound in Benghazi was under attack by “mortar fire,” hardly a sign of a spontaneous protest. “The question that I had in my mind,” Woods replied, “was why did we not do something to protect our forces?” “We didn’t even dispatch anybody,” Beck lamented. “You released the information that the White House within minutes of the attack, watched in real time the events unfolding,” Woods told Beck earlier in the program. “They denied the pleas for help and they watched my son die.” Woods went on to read the following statement, in honor of his son: “I want to honor my son, Ty Woods, who responded to the cries for help and voluntarily sacrificed his life to protect the lives of other Americans. In the last few days it has become public knowledge that within minutes of the first bullet being fired the White House knew these heroes would be slaughtered if immediate air support was denied. Apparently, C-130s were ready to respond immediately. In less than an hour, the perimeters could have been secured and American lives could have been saved. After seven hours fighting numerically superior forces, my son’s life was sacrificed because of the White House’s decision. This has nothing to do with politics, this has to do with integrity and honor. My son was a true American hero. We need more heroes today. My son showed moral courage. This is an opportunity for the person or persons who made the decision to sacrifice my son’s life to stand up.” Tears in his eyes, Beck told Woods that his son was not even there for security purposes but after hearing cries for help he voluntarily protected his fellow Americans, knowing his life would be put in danger. Beck called Tyrone Woods a “hero” multiple times throughout the show. “I am sorry for your loss, and I know there are millions of Americans that are sorry for your loss,” Beck concluded.

October 26, 2012 at 2:28 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I've never noticed the resemblance between Rush Limbaugh and Meatloaf before! They could be brothers if Rush brushed his hair forward, like "The Loaf."

October 26, 2012 at 2:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: riveting contribution.

October 26, 2012 at 2:35 p.m.
joneses said...

The problem with Hussein Obama, Joe Bite Me, Billary Clinton and the rest of you bleeding heart chicken%$#t liberals is you all are afraid to piss off someone who is hell bent on killing you like the Muslim extremist. How stupid you are.

October 26, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

noogs: You seem to have a boat fetish. Did you lose your virginity on a tramp steamer?

October 26, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

Ya' take one day off to prepare for a hurricane and look what happens.

Nate Silver (google it, degage) put together a nice probabilities graph on the competitive states (link below). His current predictions are almost identical with Alprova's with only one or two slight shifts.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/10/26/us/politics/fivethirtyeight-1026-friday3/fivethirtyeight-1026-friday3-blog480.png

Current 538 summary:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/oct-25-the-state-of-the-states/#more-36719

October 26, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Well, noogs. She's 92 and still sailing. I'll pass along your message. And you best regards.

October 26, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlier said.....

Mitt Romney knew that Paul Singer was a vulture investor and Mitt Romney knew darn well what his partner would be doing when he gave him his money.

I would hope he knew what he would be doing with his million dollars, wouldn't you be sure you knew?

ml also said....

The bottom line is that the U.S. auto industry, its jobs, and its worker pension funds were less important to Mitt Romney that his profits. He saw the potential to make millions and millions of dollars for himself by exploiting the situation so he did it. There was nothing about “blind” about the transaction, and Mitt Romney knows it - everybody knows it.

You don't know your butt from straight up about a blind trust. But if he did know what does it matter? No one forced anyone to agree to anything. What would you have had the fund do, ignore them and let them collapse with zero supply going to the auto makers?

He is not a "vulture" as you and others label him. He is a darn good hedge fund manager that has helped many start up businesses succeed and salvaged some on the brink of collapse. Others are so poorly managed they can't come back. I am confident when Romney gave him the money he knew how the fund manager managed money but not that Delphi would come into play.

I sold GM short at around $38 a share when I was pretty sure the stock would tank even if they didn't bankrupt and go to zero. I had to borrow the stock from a broker to sell it short (anyone that sells short has to borrow the stock). When it got to the low teens and there was talk about a government bale out I baled out bought it back and returned the borrowed stock to the broker. Am I a vulture by picking on a crippled company like that to make around $30,000 in a few months time? It could have gone up and forced me to pay more for it than I sold it for resulting in a big loss. I could be called an idiot for doing that so call me anything you want to for making money.

It is a fact when money is loaned and management cannot pull their butt out of the fire the loaner can assume control and divest or do what is needed to recover the loan plus agreed up interest or more if they do a better job of managing the business than those responsible.

October 26, 2012 at 4:23 p.m.
miraweb said...

Elliott Capital has earned the 'vulture' designation.

Let's be clear - anyone who loaned Argentina one thin dime in the last 25 years deserved any losses they took. It would have been the highest of high risk investments.

Elliott played "collection agency" by buying up the broken shards of those investments from the fools who made them in the first place and then began to try to squeeze Argentina for a little cash.

Anyone who wants to squeeze Argentina for cash also needs to get their head examined.

The equivalent of bankruptcy for a nation is default. They have sovereign immunity so there is no in-country recourse for folks like Elliott unless the nation decides to offer some sort of settlement. Argentina did, Elliott refused it.

As Elliott had no recourse in Argentina they went to other countries to make life difficult for Argentina.

So far all they have out of the deal is a decent three-masted tall ship. They are a long way from making back their money.

It gets even more complicated when you see cases where other firms - like Goldman Sachs - lock smaller nations into deals that will eventually push their economies over. The analogy with mortgage fraud is apt - and fairly close when you realize it is the same people cutting those deals.

Argentina was always a serious gamble. Fortunately for Elliott, there are just enough idiots in finance to keep themselves profitable.

October 26, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.
miraweb said...

harp - Making money is not the measure of how smart you are. It is the measure of how good you are at making money.

I keep hearing people saying "I would be an idiot if . . . " when the truth is "I would make a little less money if . . . "

Money is not the measure of all things worth doing.

October 26, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.
miraweb said...

And Vice-President Palin would have been a load of laughs, too.

Ah well - road not taken . . .

October 26, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
miraweb said...

McCain Not Big On Romney's "Meatloaf" Duet

It is nice that Romney is getting hip with 80's rockers. That's a jump of almost three decades for him.

Romney and Meatloaf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYifZ5jtYJE

I love the moment when Mitt decides he's just going to turn away and start waving now.

October 26, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.
miraweb said...

I would be so much more impressed if the "Canada Free Press" wasn't hosting their domain in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Even more if Scottsdale wasn't the home of our friend and potential felon, grandmaster of the voter registration fraud - Nathan Sproul.

So much real news out there and all TQQ does is repost FOX and Karl Rove's happy election time creative writing workshop.

Thinking just takes so much time.

http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx

October 26, 2012 at 5:07 p.m.
ibshame said...

"tu_quoque said... IBeAshamed Has A Thing For Me .. How Cute: Sorry that I can not return your heartfelt interest. If you where anyone of some importance and substance maybe so but afraid I won’t be making any diary entries about the dropping that you deposit here at the old web site."

Don't flatter yourself. I would have to think twice before I would even allow someone of your caliber to even wipe dogsh*t off the bottom of my shoes. That's what I think of neocons.

I don't expect you will even show up here should Romney lose but so there is no mistake about why I will be posting your "profound" election predictions, It will be for the sole purpose of exposing your ignorance for what it is - mindless jibber jabber.

As for the other bullsh*t you posted about the Secret Service, Unless you can provide some proof that such an investigation about those prostitutes has somehow been linked to President Obama and his wife then just as before you are nothing more than a SOS just like Donald Trump.

Trump continued his sucker tour and those like you fell for his announcement hook, line and sinker as if it was something that was really going to destroy President Obama's campaign. As per usual Roadkill Trump was doing nothing more than a CARNIVAL BARKER would do for a sideshow in the circus and suckers like you and others bought into it. I suppose that's why you got so upset when you realized you had been duped once again. LOL

October 26, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.
miraweb said...

Impressed that you changed sources from "Canada Free Press" to "Freebeacon.com". Substantially less impressed that they are hosted by the same company in . . . Scottsdale, Arizona.

Must be a coincidence.

Got a job lined up after election day or are you just going to take unemployment checks for a while?

October 26, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
ricardo said...

miraweb said..."And Vice-President Palin would have been a load of laughs, too. Ah well - road not taken . . ." October 26, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.

The bridge to nowhere was washed out.

October 26, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Ibshame.....I simply asked if Colin Powell was African American (which he isn't) and suddenly I'm a Nazi. You libs sure are on edge.

October 26, 2012 at 6:53 p.m.
alprova said...

We've got nothing to be on edge about. Obama is going to be reelected, that is unless he is caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.

It is entertaining as all get out to witness the overly desperate posts in this forum, spewing the same old regurgitated stuff that was tried four years ago.

Look...Obama is not going to carry Tennessee, Alabama, or Georgia. All this anti-Obama posting is quite pointless. Y'all are going to get your way in the three states.

No matter how upset you get...no matter how much you bash the President and his administration...Mitt's still going to lose the election.

So have at it. I don't care what any of you post anymore. It's a waste of time to argue with idiots who think that the outcome of this election is going to be changed one iota due to what they post.

October 26, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Something to think about.

Federal agents have issued over a quarter of a million self-written search warrants under the "patriot" act. From that they have prosecuted 26 people, two of which were alleged to be involved in acts of terror.

If someone who is served one of these warrants tells anyone that they were served they are prosecuted for a felony.

Chuck Fleischmann, Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker all voted to renew the patriot act, and Barack Obama signed the extension into law.

October 26, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
raygunz said...

degage said...

"Never heard of Nate Silver, He must be a liberal like the rest of you kooks. October 26, 2012 at 12:35 p.m"

You aren't kidding,are you? Unbelievable!

October 26, 2012 at 7:46 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Did anyone else hear what Plugsy Biden asked the father of Tyrone Woods about the "size" of Woods' testicles? Has this guy finally lost it? I cannot believe this imbecile is still out walking around let alone one heart beat away from the presidency.

October 26, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I am pretty sure that Mitt Romney has said that he supports the "patriot" act. Can anyone confirm that?

October 26, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.
miraweb said...

BRP - The ACLU is tracking that issue on Romney. This is their summary:

Closing Guantanamo Bay & Indefinite Detention

Mitt Romney's Rating: 0/4

§ Said in May 2007 he wants to “double Guantanamo,” expanding indefinite detention without trial.

Ending Torture

Mitt Romney's Rating: 0/4

§ Supports the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” like waterboarding – both euphemisms for torture and illegal under U.S. law.

Ending A Surveillance State Under The PATRIOT Act

Mitt Romney's Rating: 0/4

§ Supports the further expansion of the PATRIOT Act’s already extensive surveillance powers, saying “we need tools when war is waged domestically.”


They have rated a lot of other issues as well on their site.

http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/candidates/mitt-romney

http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/candidates/barack-obama

October 26, 2012 at 8:08 p.m.
miraweb said...

Here are the same questions rated for Obama. To be fair, these issues remain my biggest concern with his administration:

Closing Guantanamo Bay & Indefinite Detention

Barack Obama's Rating: 1/4

§ Took Ali al-Marri out of indefinite detention and criminally charged him, found new homes for some detainees transferred from Guantanamo and has not sent new detainees to Guantanamo or created new military detention facilities;

§ Backtracked on promises to close Guantanamo Bay and use civil courts by maintaining a system of indefinite detention and permitting military commission trials to continue.

Ending Torture

Barack Obama's Rating: 3/4

§ Ordered an end to the use of torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, withdrew flawed legal analysis used to justify torture and applied the Army Field Manual on interrogations government wide;

§ Abolished the CIA secret prisons;

§ Says that “waterboarding is torture” and “contrary to America’s traditions… contrary to our ideals.”;

§ No reports of extraordinary rendition to torture or other cruelty under his administration;

§ Failed to hold those responsible for past torture and other cruelty accountable; has blocked alleged victims of torture from having their day in court.

Ending A Surveillance State Under The PATRIOT Act

Barack Obama's Rating: 0/4

§ Voted for all reauthorizations and extensions, saying in May 2011 that “It's an important tool for us to continue dealing with an ongoing terrorist threat.”

October 26, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.
miraweb said...

And to those of you clutchin' yer pearls over the letters "ACLU" - get over it.

October 26, 2012 at 8:16 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Thank you for your confirmation miraweb. Is the ACLU also tracking Obama? My concern is that BOTH major parties do not give a Sh!t about due process or civil rights.

October 26, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.
miraweb said...

Yep - sorry I was typing as fast as I could.

And I agree - both major parties need to do a lot better on this.

October 26, 2012 at 8:20 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb,

OK, thanks for the Obama addition. I do no understand how Obama gets a 0/0 for the surveillance state under the "patriot" act after voting for and signing extensions. I am trying to point out that both parties support expansion of the police state and do not care about protecting our freedom.

October 26, 2012 at 8:23 p.m.
miraweb said...

Sorry - 0/0 was my typo. I've corrected that in the post. It should be 0/4. The ACLU was not impressed on that issue.

October 26, 2012 at 8:25 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

This is important enough that it needs to be repeated...

Federal agents have issued over a quarter of a million self-written search warrants under the "patriot" act. From that they have prosecuted 26 people, two of which were alleged to be involved in acts of terror.

If someone who is served one of these warrants tells anyone that they were served they are prosecuted for a felony.

Chuck Fleischmann, Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker all voted to renew the patriot act, and Barack Obama also voted for extension as a US Senator and sign an extension into law as the President. Mitt Romney has indicated that he supports the "patriot" act.

Gary Johnson 2012 (in the absence of Ron Paul)

October 26, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.
miraweb said...

These issues are the primary reason I oppose the NeoCons getting anywhere near the reins of power again. I am not happy with Obama on these issues - but I do believe the NeoCons would make it even worse.

I can respect someone voting for Johnson over these issues. That is a principled position.

October 26, 2012 at 8:28 p.m.
fairmon said...

BRP the cry of give me liberty or give me death is no more. Any that have that preferece are drowned out by we are all in this together, play nice and share what you eraned while I was playing with me.

October 26, 2012 at 8:37 p.m.
miraweb said...

The best set of questions that I've seen asked on these issues recently have been from Jon Stewart. He asks - and he presses a little to get an answer. (Note: this is the interview that the "optimal" dust up came from.)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-18-2012/exclusive---barack-obama-extended-interview-pt--2

October 26, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said... harp - Making money is not the measure of how smart you are. It is the measure of how good you are at making money.

I agree totally although reasonable intelligence may help make money.

I keep hearing people saying "I would be an idiot if . . . " when the truth is "I would make a little less money if . . . "

Or lose their butt if......

Money is not the measure of all things worth doing.

True but it sure enables doing more of those things where the measure of goodness is not money alone, ask any politician.

October 26, 2012 at 8:44 p.m.
miraweb said...

harp - It does help. I'll grant that.

October 26, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb,

I can assure you that Mitt Romney, Chuck Fleischmann, Lamar Alexander, Bob Corker and Barack Obama will not get my vote over their support for the "patriot" act. I respect your rejection of the NeoCons erosion of our civil liberties but I submit that there is little separation between the democrats and republicans, at least in the context of the national "machines". I think we would all be better off if we voted people out of office who support the police state over our liberties.

When both of the major parties support erosion of our civil liberties we MUST vote for a party that protects our freedom.

October 26, 2012 at 8:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

I hear what you're saying.

There are a lot of folks in the Congress who would be on that list. I agree with the people who say it is best to have something to vote for. Until the last Bush-era NeoCon is babbling in an underfunded nursing home I may have an issue I will always vote against.

October 26, 2012 at 8:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: Ironic isn't it that "torture" led to BHO's only accomplishment. (you know, the one about which he said he would not spike the ball)

October 26, 2012 at 8:52 p.m.
miraweb said...

I do have a less than consistent moral position on this issue. I believe the planners of 9/11 that are in Guantanamo should have the same legal system as anyone else. How we treat captured enemies matters.

I also wouldn't object if they were dropped on the battle field in front of a line of drones and given a 3 minute head start.

I'm not perfect, you know. ;)

October 26, 2012 at 8:56 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Jack,

I understand your rejection of Barack Obama's "accomplishments" but I wish you would not lose sight of the fact that that the republican establishment has not served us much better. It is only a difference of degree or rate-of-change.

I wish we could go back to support of PRINCIPLES and stop being bound to some particular party...

October 26, 2012 at 9 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

BRP: Have not lost sight. It's a matter of degree. Lots of them.

October 26, 2012 at 9:04 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

It sounds like you are willing to vote for a slower rate of decline. I beg you to reject compromise and vote your heart.

You know, there is little risk that Barack Obama will win in Tennessee. If you vote for the Libertarian (or Constitutional, or whatever) candidate, you will issue a stronger message for individual freedom and liberty than if you vote for a party that is pretending to be for freedom.

October 26, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

BRP: I get your point, but voting "against" feels good too.

October 26, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The sad thing about the cover-up is the MSM cover-up of the cover-up. Disgusting. All Americans should be ashamed of the media.

October 26, 2012 at 9:52 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I totally agree. The MSM is more interested in promoting an agenda then communicating the news to us. If we insist on watching the tellie, we are left with a choice of hearing the republican or the democrat version of reality. You have to work pretty hard to find THE TRUTH!

October 26, 2012 at 10:08 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Local TV guy in CO only reporter with balls enough to ask BHO what really happened in Libya. Of course he got no answer.

October 26, 2012 at 10:10 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Yes, and NO ONE is asking where Romney or Obama stands on the "patriot" act or the NDAA!

October 26, 2012 at 10:18 p.m.
miraweb said...

Actually, Jon Stewart asked Obama both those questions in the link I gave you before.

I don't recall anyone pinning Romney down on that - or anything else, for that matter.

Stewart is a pretty fearless interviewer.

October 26, 2012 at 10:59 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “Vultures do play a worth while role in the world. They clean up dead animals from the environment including road kill.”

Yes, Harp3339. Vultures do fill an ecological niche in nature. But I’m not convinced the same can be said of these human hedge fund “vultures” like Paul Singer and his partner Mitt Romney. I suppose some people might be in awe of these guys, but I suspect the “vulture” fan club is limited, especially when it comes to politics. The American bald “eagle” was chosen for the Seal of the U.S. President - a vulture circling the nation just doesn’t have the same appeal.

Harp3339 said: “I notice you ignored everything but the labeling. Why did Delphi agree to the terms offered? Why had Delphi allowed the pensions to go unfunded? Etc., Etc., Etc. You read those articles by someone that writes articles with an opinion expected to sell news print.”

The main reason this “vulture” investor discussion developed in the first place is because Mitt Romney went on and on about how he would never do anything to hurt the U.S. auto industry, which is simply not the case. Again, Mitt Romney’s problem is that he wants it both ways and he can’t have it both ways. His mistake was claiming that he’d never do anything to hurt the U.S. auto industry when he had. Mitt Romney knew that Singer was a vulture investor and he knew darn well what his partner would be doing when he gave him his money.

Harp3339 said: “No, I don't have to accept or agree with the term I do have to accept that some ignorant people will use it.

Don’t you think you’re being a overly sensitive about this “vulture” issue, Harp3339? Clearly, you don’t have to accept it, but I suspect you’ll have heck of a time trying to change the opinion of the rest of the world. Like it or not, the description “vulture” investor fits.

“A vulture fund is a private equity or hedge fund that invests in debt issued by an entity that is considered to be very weak or dying, or whose debt is in imminent default. The name is a metaphor comparing these investors to vultures patiently circling, waiting to pick over the remains of a rapidly weakening company or, in the case of sovereign debt, debtor country.”

October 26, 2012 at 11:35 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

“Harp3339 said: Mountainlier...I would hope he knew what he would be doing with his million dollars, wouldn't you be sure you knew? . . You don't know your butt from straight up about a blind trust. But if he did know what does it matter?. . . He is not a "vulture" as you and others label him.”

Where is the lie, Harp3339? . . . Romney's partner certainly looks like a vulture investor to me:

“On June 1, 2009, the Obama administration announced that Detroit Piston's owner Tom Gores, GM and the US Treasury would buy back Delphi.The plan called for saving 15 of 29 Delphi factories in the US.

Then the vulture funds pounced.

The Nation discovered that, in the two weeks immediately following the announcement of the Delphi jobs-saving plan, Paul Singer, Romney's partner, secretly bought up over a billion dollars of old Delphi bonds for pennies on the dollar.

Singer and partners now controlled the company - and killed the return of Delphi to GM.

These facts were revealed in a sworn deposition of Delphi's Chief Financial Officer John Sheehan, confidential, but now released on the Web.

Sheehan said, under oath, that these speculators threatened to withhold key parts (steering columns), from GM. This would have brought the auto maker to its knees, immediately forcing GM's permanent closure.

The extortion worked. The government money that was supposed to go to save jobs went to Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management Corporation and its partners, including the Romneys.

Once Singer's crew took control of Delphi, they rapidly completed the move to China, sticking the US taxpayers with the bill for the pensions of the Delphi workers cut loose.”

http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/12273-romney-company-shipped-every-single-delphi-uaw-job-to-china

October 26, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis said... "The sad thing about the cover-up is the MSM cover-up of the cover-up."

You're gonna love the cover up of the cover up of the cover up.

You silly, paranoid old bastard.

October 27, 2012 at 12:02 a.m.
raygunz said...

DAY-YAM, Mtn.Laurel, what a devastating piece of news! Thanks for posting it! OF course,it'll go right past the Obama haters.

October 27, 2012 at 12:04 a.m.
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