published Saturday, July 20th, 2013

Sanford, Florida

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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bret said...

Clay, I appreciate the extra effort that went into drawing the folding of the map.

July 20, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.

Stupid cartoon.

July 20, 2013 at 12:23 a.m.

I guess Jesse Jackass called Clay and gave him his marching orders, or drawing assignment.

July 20, 2013 at 12:25 a.m.
fairmon said...

WTF...same subject recycled..It appears the people in FL. like their laws. Those that don't like Florida's laws should keep out of Florida and those in FL. that don't like them move out. Why is the media and people everywhere trying to help Florida decide what Florida law should be?

July 20, 2013 at 12:40 a.m.
bret said...

If your first reaction to this has anything to do with Jesse Jackson, you might be a racist.

July 20, 2013 at 12:43 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

just plain silly

July 20, 2013 at 1:23 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

By Richard Cohen:

Where is the politician who will own up to the painful complexity of the problem and acknowledge the widespread fear of crime committed by young black males? This does not mean that raw racism has disappeared, and some judgments are not the product of invidious stereotyping.

It does mean, though, that the public knows young black males commit a disproportionate amount of crime. In New York City, blacks make up a quarter of the population, yet they represent 78 percent of all shooting suspects — almost all of them young men. We know them from the nightly news.

After all, if young black males are your shooters, then it ought to be young black males whom the police stop and frisk. Still, common sense and common decency, not to mention the law, insist on other variables such as suspicious behavior. Even still, race is a factor, without a doubt. It would be senseless for the police to be stopping Danish tourists in Times Square just to make the statistics look good.

Crime where it intersects with race is given the silent treatment. Everything else is discussed. Crime, though, is different. It is, like sex in the Victorian era (or the 1950s), an unmentionable but unmistakable part of life. We all know about it and take appropriate precaution but keep our mouths shut.

At one time, I thought Barack Obama would bring the problem into the open and remove the racist stigma. Instead, he perpetuated it. In his acclaimed Philadelphia speech on race, he cited his grandmother as “a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her by on the street.”

How about the former Barry Obama? When he was a Columbia University student living on the lip of then-dangerous Harlem, did he never have the same fear?

July 20, 2013 at 1:25 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Anybody that looks at this toon and doesn't immediately connect its theme to our favorite race hustlers is beyond just ignorant.

July 20, 2013 at 1:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Why? Florida is white...

Sanford, Florida has become the new State Capital.

July 20, 2013 at 1:44 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

It looks to be a light shade of grey on my display

July 20, 2013 at 1:58 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

“I think the jury made the right decision based on the evidence presented, because the prosecution inadvertently set the standard so high that the jury had to be convinced that it was a deliberate act by Zimmerman that he was not at all defending himself, and so forth. It’s not a moral question, it’s a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented.”

Former President Jimmy Carter

Of course right after saying that he started spewing about how evil the U.S. is so I guess quoting that nut case results in a wash.

July 20, 2013 at 2:10 a.m.
Ki said...

responding to: After all, if young black males are your shooters, then it ought to be young black males whom the police stop and frisk.

But how would stop and frisk of black males have helped the victims of Sandy Hook? Columbine? Colorado theater shootings? Gabriel Gifford and the victims in Arizona?

Responding to: Why is the media and people everywhere trying to help Florida decide what Florida law should be?

Maybe because Florida is still a part of America. And whatever happens in Florida affects the rest of the nation?

I pulled this narrative from another site: **I don't own a gun, but I do carry a sock full of pennies in my purse for protection. Swung properly, upside the head they can do considerable damage. At least giving me enough time to perhaps make a run for it if I'm ever stalked and confronted by a stranger. My question is this: Do I have to wait until some stranger following me put their hands on me and whip out their gun before I swing my tied up sock full of pennies bashing them upside the head? At what point do I move from being a victim to a "thug" for standing up to a stranger who could just as well have turned out to be a mugger, rapist, murderer, serial killer instead of a hot-headed, self-proclaimed-cop-wannabe neighborhood watchman? The moment I swing my sock full of pennies at the stranger/stalker's head? The moment the pennies make contact with his head? Or the moment the stranger/stalker shoots me? Why did Zimmerman fail to identify himself to Martin?

Finally, under Florida laws of self-defense, at what point would hiker Meredith Emmerson have gone from being victim to "thug" (so many have used that term to describe Martin) or villain? Would it be at the point she used her martial arts skills to fight off her abductor, torturer, murderer, drifter George Hilton? Was she, at least in part, responsible for her own death for deciding to hike alone on that Georgia trail? Florida law basically say the victim can become the thug and criminal and the aggressor and assailant the victim the moment the victim attempts to defend him/herself. How is such a law rational? How is such a law humane? And what does it say about our value system and sense of right and wrong? Florida's law presently gives every predator, every pedophile, every rapist, serial killer, mugger, every child molester the advantage over their victim.

At least Milwaukee got it right. They just convicted Spooner in the murder of his 13 year old victim, Darius Simmons. Who Spooner shot and killed as he was bringing in the garbage can. On the witness stand, Spooner said he wouldn't call his action revenge. He'd call it justice. Little Falls Minnesota also seems to have recovered its moral compass. Charges for Byron David Smith was upgraded from 2nd degree murder to 1st degree murder in the execution style killing of 18 year old Haile Kifer and 17 year Nicholas Brady, who were cousins.

July 20, 2013 at 2:19 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Every now and then people tell on themselves and reveal how they truly feel inside. Here are two quotes from Jesse Jackson that simply state the truth everyone knows, even black people.

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

“When I came here, I put my hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. I didn't put my hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.”

As for Barack Obama and the racial hatred trash that spewed from his mouth yesterday, perhaps it is time to find someone who can lead and unite this great country instead of constantly attempting to divide it with lies. The man is a fraud. Even Jesse Jackson knows it!

Clay, you are right there with Barry!

July 20, 2013 at 4:23 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

http://wizbangblog.com/2013/07/18/white-people-rioting/

Black man in New York shot white teen thief/assailant dead, and was rightly acquitted.

July 20, 2013 at 5:44 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

responding to: After all, if young black males are your shooters, then it ought to be young black males whom the police stop and frisk.

But how would stop and frisk of black males have helped the victims of Sandy Hook? Columbine? Colorado theater shootings? Gabriel Gifford and the victims in Arizona?

I tell you what ... you design a system that detects crazy white boys that will eventually engage in mass slayings. Against it we will employ Mr. Cohan’s proposal and will total up at the end of any week, month, or year, that you choose, and see who prevented the most killings. Catching the crazy white boys is definitely a positive but to used their crimes to negate the use of an effective crime prevention tactic is just crazy.

Responding to: Why is the media and people everywhere trying to help Florida decide what Florida law should be?

Maybe because Florida is still a part of America. And whatever happens in Florida affects the rest of the nation?

Maybe if you are not a citizen of the state of Florida and Florida law does not come in conflict with the Constitution or Federal law then I suggest you butt out.

July 20, 2013 at 6:16 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

I pulled this narrative from another site: **I don't own a gun, but I do carry a sock full of pennies in my purse for protection. Swung properly, upside the head they can do considerable damage. At least giving me enough time to perhaps make a run for it if I'm ever stalked and confronted by a stranger. My question is this: Do I have to wait until some stranger following me put their hands on me and whip out their gun before I swing my tied up sock full of pennies bashing them upside the head?

In many locales carrying a sock full of pennies is considered a club and thus a deadly weapon. Even if you are in a jurisdiction that does not recognize an object as a deadly weapon it can easily become one.

“If an item is not a deadly weapon per se, it will only be considered a deadly weapon if the defendant in a particular case actually used or intended to use the item to cause death or serious bodily injury” - quoted from a case heard by the Tennessee Supreme Court .

At what point do I move from being a victim to a "thug" for standing up to a stranger who could just as well have turned out to be a mugger, rapist, murderer, serial killer instead of a hot-headed, self-proclaimed-cop-wannabe neighborhood watchman?

Really? ... I hope if you ever use a weapon, like that, you don’t tell the police that the person you just injured or killed ... “could just as well have turned out to be” an attacker.

The moment I swing my sock full of pennies at the stranger/stalker's head? The moment the pennies make contact with his head?

The moment when you use or intended to use the item to cause death or serious bodily injury and you do not have evidence or third party testimony that you were in fear of your life or great bodily harm. Or if in the absence of such you can’t convince a jury that you were truly in that state of mind.

Or the moment the stranger/stalker shoots me?

If you produce or use a weapon and you are mistaken about the intent or actions of the person you confronted they can very well legally shoot you dead and use your weapon as justification.

Why did Zimmerman fail to identify himself to Martin?

It was not illegal for him to have not done so, the neighborhood watch police officer told them not to confront suspicious persons, and him not doing so did not justify Martin sucker punching him in the face when they came together.

July 20, 2013 at 6:18 a.m.
fairmon said...

KI said......Responding to: Why is the media and people everywhere trying to help Florida decide what Florida law should be?

KI said...Maybe because Florida is still a part of America. And whatever happens in Florida affects the rest of the nation?


The SYG law in Florida is considered a poorly written law by many of us but it is only applicable in Florida and no other state. It has no impact on the rest of the nation. If the people in Florida see a need to change it there will be a change. The constitution is pretty clear on the sovereignty of the states but a federal government already too big to manage keeps growing and infringing on the states rights.

July 20, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

Finally, under Florida laws of self-defense, at what point would hiker Meredith Emmerson have gone from being victim to "thug" (so many have used that term to describe Martin) or villain? Would it be at the point she used her martial arts skills to fight off her abductor, torturer, murderer, drifter George Hilton?

From Wiki:

On January 30, 2008, Gary Hilton pleaded guilty to the murder of Meredith Emerson. He was then sentenced to life in prison with a chance of parole in 30 years. Hilton was later linked to the murder of an elderly couple in North Carolina, and the murder of a nurse in Florida. He was convicted for both these murders, and subsequently sentenced to life for the murders in North Carolina, and given the death penalty for the murder in Florida.

It sure looks like “under Florida laws” this creature was dealt with in a more just manner than Georgia or North Carolina.

Was she, at least in part, responsible for her own death for deciding to hike alone on that Georgia trail?

You’re one sick puppy for even posting something like that.

Florida law basically say the victim can become the thug and criminal and the aggressor and assailant the victim the moment the victim attempts to defend him/herself.

No it does not.

How is such a law rational? How is such a law humane? And what does it say about our value system and sense of right and wrong?

I find the law to be not only rational but also humane and morally correct for providing victims a better way to legally defend themselves.

Florida's law presently gives every predator, every pedophile, every rapist, serial killer, mugger, every child molester the advantage over their victim.

You just can’t find an ethical bottom for you point of view can you? .... And the above is a damnable lie.

At least Milwaukee got it right. They just convicted Spooner in the murder of his 13 year old victim, Darius Simmons. Who Spooner shot and killed as he was bringing in the garbage can. On the witness stand, Spooner said he wouldn't call his action revenge. He'd call it justice. Little Falls Minnesota also seems to have recovered its moral compass. Charges for Byron David Smith was upgraded from 2nd degree murder to 1st degree murder in the execution style killing of 18 year old Haile Kifer and 17 year Nicholas Brady, who were cousins.

Neither of these cases even come close to the Zimmerman/Martin incident. Mr Spooner clearly was not defending himself and it was cold blooded murder as Spooner essentially executed the Simmons boy. Mr. Smith could have been justified in his initial encounter with the burglars but after they were wounded and not a threat he executed them as well.

You are clearly grasping at straws to prove a point of view that is completely wrong.

July 20, 2013 at 6:47 a.m.
joneses said...

Headline: "Pharmacist Subdues Armed Robber With Metal Pipe Until Police Arrive at CVS Pharmacy"

I am surprised liberals and clay bennett are not calling for the beheading of the Pharmacist.

July 20, 2013 at 6:55 a.m.
conservative said...

People must have stayed up all night arguing about where in Florida Sanford is located.

July 20, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
Astropig said...

This cartoon is amazingly accurate. I have a home in Florida (right there in that top center Sanford near the Georgia line), and we do protect ourselves from people that would do us bodily harm. We will defend ourselves if needed,so I guess it would be best to just keep your hands to yourself.The next little punk that wants to break bad with a homeowner may want to think twice...

July 20, 2013 at 7:52 a.m.
rick1 said...

Joneses, here is the FTP headline in reference to the pharmacist:

"Hero CVS pharmacist uses metal pipe to subdue robber until police arrive."

If he had used a gun to stop the robber the TFP would be crucifying him.

July 20, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Seems to me that Stand Your Ground is sort of an American tradition. (but not to the libtards)

July 20, 2013 at 8:17 a.m.
rick1 said...

"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that CHOOSES and DESERVES the police state dictatorship it is going to get." Ian Williams Goddard

July 20, 2013 at 8:35 a.m.
Ki said...

AndrewLohr said... http://wizbangblog.com/2013/07/18/white-people-rioting/ Black man in New York shot white teen thief/assailant dead, and was rightly acquitted.

In your own words, andy, thief/assailant. Plus, much of New York is not predominately white like Sanford Florida (more than half of the population is white and that's only if you don't count in the other groups that identify closely with white). In predominately white Sanford Florida and many other states that are predominately white, the courts would have dug and dug until they found something, anything they could use to charge the black man. And regardless of their laws on self-defense, Florida would have strung that black man up on the nearest Poplar tree (those were the trees preferred during the lynching period/Magnolias were used nearby to cover the smell of rotting/burning flesh left hanging in those Poplar trees) if the white boy had just been innocently walking through the neighborhood with a bag of skittles and can of ice tea.

Remember that song: Strange Fruit?

Southern trees bear strange fruit

Blood on the leaves and blood at the root

Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze

Strange fruit hanging from the Poplar trees,

Pastoral scenes of a gallant south,

The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth

Scent of Magnolias, sweet and fresh,

Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here's is the fruit for the crows to pluck

For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck

For the sun to rot, for trees to drop

Here is a strange and bitter crop.

Billie Holliday/Lewis Allen

July 20, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ki: Disgusting. You rabblerouser. You libtards fear any racial reconciliation, don't you? Admit it.

July 20, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.
Ki said...

wtfuss: As for Barack Obama and the racial hatred trash that spewed from his mouth yesterday,

It would appear the only one spewing racial hatred is coming from the likes of you. There was no racial hatred in anything the president said yesterday. From Ireland to the America's, people from around the world have condemned the verdict and what happened in Sanford Florida. These are not rare and isolated occurrences. They just don't always end in such a tragic manner, and when they do the predator is charged and convicted. And all the self-defense laws on the books won't protect them, especially when their victim is white.

July 20, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.
Ki said...

Astropig said: The next little punk that wants to break bad with a homeowner may want to think twice

That can work both ways, astro. Let's re-phrase that one: The next little punk-wanna-be-cop-neighborhoodwatch that wants to "break bad" with an innocent individual going about their daily routine, may want to think twice. Tthat innocent, non-descript person their tracking, following and confronting may now just be packing their own heat.* See how it works?!

July 20, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
alprova said...

Stand Your Ground, as it is written in Florida law, will be invalidated.

Either that or everyone with the desire to kill another human being with the desire to get away with it will be relocating there in short order and will start picking a fight with someone to get the ball rolling.

July 20, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.
degage said...

KI, where did you get Sanford is predominately white ? 39.8% black in a city of 30,450 adding in the % of Hispanic it is not predominately white.

July 20, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Stand Your Ground, as written, had nothing to do with Zimmerman case.

July 20, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
Ki said...

degage, that's not true. Sanford is over 50% white and that's not even counting the Latinos that identify as white. It's that old adage European settlers tried to use on Native American Indians when they went to targeted tribes and told them YOU ARE ONE OF THE CHOSEN, because of their much lighter skin. Of course, most of them turned down that concept and told them, "You have a people amongst you that you treat horribly (meaning African-slaves). Now tell us where in your bible your god condones that). They were trying to pass their bible on to Native Americans. Which would later be used as a tool to divide and conquer the Native American population. As one Native America Chief put it, "When the white man landed on our shores, we had the land and he had the bible. Now he has our land and we have his bible and nothing."

July 20, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ki: So what's your point?

July 20, 2013 at 9:37 a.m.
Ki said...

PT what's yours?

July 20, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
Ki said...

AndrewLohr said... http://wizbangblog.com/2013/07/18/white-people-rioting/ Black man in New York shot white teen thief/assailant dead, and was rightly acquitted.

Plus andy, you didn't tell the whole truth on that story. Not that I would have chosen the method Scott chose. I'd never shoot someone for breaking into my or anyone's car. Material things aren't worth me taking a life over. I can repair or even buy another car. Once a life is taken it's gone, and can't be brought back.

Roderick Scott went out of his house to confront a trio of punks breaking into cars in his Greece, New York neighborhood Scott’s story was that he fired two rounds at one of them when the young man charged him after being told to freeze and wait for the cops

On another note, I said from the very beginning that these neighborhood watch groups need better oversight and accountability. I've seen far too many, even locally, teetering on the edge and morphing into full fledge vigilante groups rather than neighborhood-watch. And your friendly law enforcement attending those meetings were encouraging it.

July 20, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.
degage said...

PT, Ki's point is white is evil. sadly he/she is racist in reverse.

MickeyRat that was an interesting video.

July 20, 2013 at 9:45 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrweLohr wrote: "Black man in New York shot white teen thief/assailant dead, and was rightly acquitted."

There were more differences than similarities in that case. The primary difference being that the boy who was shot was committing a crime at the time he encountered Mr. Scott.

July 20, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

degage : Answering a question with a question reminds me of little Easy.

July 20, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Stand Your Ground, as written, had nothing to do with Zimmerman case."

Sir, we've been over this. The Standard Jury Instructions read in court and delivered to the jury specifically for self-defense claims were changed in 2006 to reflect the Stand Your Ground law in Florida.

I posted the link to the proof.

July 20, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
degage said...

Ki, Sanford city data! 45% white 29.2% black 20.2% Hispanic 2.7% Asian.

July 20, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
degage said...

So PT, are you saying maybe Ki is Easy?

July 20, 2013 at 9:53 a.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Answering a question with a question reminds me of little Easy."

Is there anyone who posts in here that you have not accused of being Easy123?

July 20, 2013 at 9:54 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Sanford city data! 45% white 29.2% black 20.2% Hispanic 2.7% Asian."

According to the 2010 census, the data shows that Sanford, Florida is: 61.78% white, 25.59% black, 1.83% Asian, 14.17% Hispanic, and 10.44% other.

July 20, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Sanford city data! 45% white 29.2% black 20.2% Hispanic 2.7% Asian."

According to the 2010 census, the data shows that Sanford, Florida is: 61.78% white, 25.59% black, 1.83% Asian, 14.17% Hispanic, 10.44% other, and .35% Native American.

July 20, 2013 at 10:01 a.m.
Ki said...

degage said... PT, Ki's point is white is evil. sadly he/she is racist in reverse.

Colors aren't evil, degage.

July 20, 2013 at 10:02 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

dee: maybe

July 20, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.
degage said...

So, Al, Add you black Hispanic Asian and other ( 52.03% ) so how can you justify the white population is 61.78 %. the numbers don't add up.

July 20, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'm betting KI doesn't believe in evil.

July 20, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
Ki said...

PT wrote: "Stand Your Ground, as written, had nothing to do with Zimmerman case."

Stand Your Ground very much played a role and was used, if only in the minds of the jurors. The Stand Your Ground Law is a self defense law. One that played very closely around the edges and in a suggestive manner to this trial and its outcome. Where this law exist, there's no such thing or way to separate the two from a simple case of self-defense. Then throw in the Castle Doctrine in many states and how the laws are worded, and you've put the icing on the cake for any fruit cake to go out shoot someone and then claim self-defense. It gives the average citizen more rights than police have to shoot and kill someone. In fact, some police at these neighborhood group meetings have informed citizens in attendants that they can get away with committing acts the police wouldn't be allowed.

July 20, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
Ki said...

PlainTruth said... I'm betting KI doesn't believe in evil.

To believe in evil implies one is a part of it. I believe that evil exist and it can manifest itself in many shapes and forms. It can be found hiding behind the pretense of self-defense, wanting to protect ones property. I think evil is just hate magnified to the highest degree of inhumanity. I believe evil can be found hiding behind pretense of wanting to only carry out good deeds and acts of charity. I believe evil comes in many shapes and forms, and that's why it's so easy to dupe, at times, even good citizens with good intent to assist and become a part in committing evil.

July 20, 2013 at 10:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ki: Sounds about right on SYG. That's why I'm for it.

July 20, 2013 at 10:17 a.m.
Ki said...

fairmon said: The SYG law in Florida is considered a poorly written law by many of us but it is only applicable in Florida and no other state. It has no impact on the rest of the nation

That's not true, fairmon. Especially in states that have a Stand Your Ground law. Too much is left up to the interpretation of the shooter in other states where SYG and Castle Doctrine laws exist. And because of that innocent lives are being lost. It doesn't matter if after the fact the individual is charged. By then the life is lost and can't be brought back. Such as in the case of 18 year old Haile Kifer and 17 year old Nicholas Brady of Little Falls, Minnesota. The state of Minnesota doesn't have any SYG law, but it does have a Castle Doctrine law that is just as bad as any SYG law.

July 20, 2013 at 10:23 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ki seemingly is for the Stand and be Killed Law. (SBK)

July 20, 2013 at 10:26 a.m.
Ki said...

Not so, PT. I'm against legally owning gun-toting fruitcakes, with their concealed weapons, who believe they can now just walk up to an innocent person, pick a fight then pull out their gun and shoot them because they're losing the fight. Then claim self-defense and no jury will convict them.

July 20, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
tifosi said...

Good point Ki. Never thought about that scenario.

July 20, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "So, Al, Add you black Hispanic Asian and other ( 52.03% ) so how can you justify the white population is 61.78 %. the numbers don't add up."

I can't justify it. That's just what the census shows.

Here's a better more accurate census:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12/1263650.html

57% white

Seems that there are many innacurate quotations of the census numbers and percentages.

July 20, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki

Please explain what it is I wrote that your convoluted thought filled mind found to be "Racial Hatred."

If Jesse Jacksons quote offended you please go take that up with The Reverend. If you have heard footsteps as the Rev. Jackson has and thought there might be a black man/men behind you and they perhaps may want to rob or kill you only to turn around and see a nice, well dressed, properly mannered white man saying "Excuse me sir but I'm late for work," as he runs by you and you felt relieved, then you too may have the same issue as our dear friend Jesse. But for you to claim that I am a racist?

July 20, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.

So, I 'm a racist because I think Jesse Jackson might be involved? Ever heard of sarcasm? Why wouldn't I think Jesse Jackass and Al Sharptongue wouldn't be involved in Florida when they've flat out have stated their intentions.

It's actually a badge of honor to be called a racist by lefties because it means what's been said is the truth and you've decided to name call and toss your poop like a bunch of apes and see where it sticks.

July 20, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.

There's not one shred of proof that GZ is a racist, not one. NBC spliced some sound bites together to make it seem as if GZ was a racist. The fact is the hooded bunch/thugs are punks and have reeked havoc in this country and are in fact the racists. Martin was doing the punching and the head banging, deal with it. Why aren't his parents responsible, since he was such a precious child. Maybe it was their neglect combined with the pot. He was a minor, yet he's smoking pot. So, why aren't his parents made responsible?

July 20, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.
Ki said...

wtfuss, the fact you'd shop, shop and shop around until you could pull up some old ancient phrase by someone you admittedly despise, taken out of context, and attempt to use it to your benefit and as an excuse to justify your own intolerance.

Now, my dog just brought me his Frisbee, which means he wants to go outside, get some sunshine and play. I suggest you do the same. ;)

July 20, 2013 at 11:07 a.m.

By the way, and feel free to call me a racist if you want, but BO is a jackass as well for that stupid statement he made in a news conf. yesterday. It was astoundingly irresponsible of him to keep alive the notion that GZ was racist, which is what he did. Thugs have earned the scrutiny they get. Profiling works, and if you dress like a thug, act like a thug, talk like thug, think like a thug and look for trouble like a thug then you deserve what you get. The media has that innocent looking photo of TM still out there, even after the trial is over and the facts our out. BO is race baiter just Jesse Jackass and Al Sharptongue.

July 20, 2013 at 11:10 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki,

Zimmerman didn't pick a fight. Martin did. As I have posted before all Trayvon Martin had to do was tell Mr. Zimmerman that he had just moved in with his father and now lives in the neighborhood. He was returning from 7/11 to his home. Instead of engaging Mr. Zimmerman in conversation learning the neighborhood was experiencing a number of break-ins and he was part of a neighborhood watch program, Mr. Martin took the attitude of a criminal evading Mr. Zimmerman as he continued to observe Trayvon. As we have learned, perhaps Mr. Martin was the racist with the comment he made to his friend on the phone about Mr. Zimmerman being a "Creepy-Ass Cracker". I have found black people to be much more racist than white people I have known. This simple fact is something we never hear anyone discuss. Ever wonder why? I do!

July 20, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
degage said...

Al, if you read that hole section of the link you posted you will see white alone without Hispanic is 45%.

July 20, 2013 at 11:16 a.m.
Ki said...

zableedofisterix said... Maybe it was their neglect combined with the pot. He was a minor, yet he's smoking pot. So, why aren't his parents made responsible?

If teens deserved a death sentence for smoking pot, they'd be a helluva lot of white teens locally at the cemetery. Where ARE their parents? Do you honestly believe all those white teens caught in the woods and charged with drinking were only drinking? The rest were likely downplayed to protect the guilty and to keep their parents from being held responsible. Because that other stuff is illegal.

Whether GZ is racist or not is not the issue. Were his actions based on racial perception of another? That's the issue. Even if he wasn't sure of the race of his victim prior to confronting him, my bet is the outcome would have been totally different if once he approached Martin, Martin turned out to be white. GZ would have likely explained his intent, shook hands and apologize. I've known similar scenarios to play out in the community I live and the differences in approach when the suspicious person is white verses black. That scenario is different whether the suspicious person encounters a cop or neighborhood watch person.

Again, did hiker Meredith Emmerson have the right, or was it the audacity, to use her martial arts skills to fight off her assailent? Would she have had the right to spill his brains all over that hiking trail to defend herself? Or did she become a "thug/punk" the moment she decided to put up the fight for her life?

Now, I'm really off to go play Frisbee with rove. He's getting impatient.

July 20, 2013 at 11:17 a.m.
Ki said...

whatsthefuss said... KiZimmerman didn't pick a fight. Martin did. As I have posted before all Trayvon Martin had to do was tell Mr. Zimmerman that he had just moved in with his father and now lives in the neighborhood. He was returning from 7/11 to his home. Instead of engaging Mr. Zimmerman

That would have been Zimmerman's responsibility. Not Martins. How can you engage a stranger following you have no idea is a mugger or a neighborhood watch person? There you go blaming the victim. Martin had no way of knowing if Zimmerman was a pervert out casing young boys, a mugger or a gang-banger himself. So why would Martin chance trying to explain why he was in the neighborhood. That's really the most naïve and even dangerous thing you could ever suggest.

Out of here/Gotta go catch the sun and play play PLAY have fun!!

July 20, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki,

Thanks for the tip as I just returned from the sunshine doing a very middle class white thing called picking blueberries early this fine morning. I managed 2 gallons today @ $8.00 a gallon. I found them once again to be quite the bargain. 10 gallons for the year so far. In all the years I have been picking I have never once seen one of my African American friends picking along side me. How sad,,,. You may be on to something though as I, like you, find the outdoors and sunshine very relaxing.

Now I sure do love me some fresh blueberry muffins and pancakes. If you have some time try Alton Browns blueberry muffin recipe. I know it may sound racist to you that I have found a white mans muffin recipe to be superior to any other I have tried but please try to contain your anger. Now if you have one to suggest that may rival Alton's authored by a person of color I am more than happy to invest two cups of my personal harvest for the challenge. You see my dear departed white grandmothers muffin recipe was my all time favorite until I tried Alton's. That's not to say I still don't use her recipe from time to time. It's just a matter of preference and mood. Please be sure to buy a fresh can of Double Acting Baking Powder for your muffins or any other kitchen creation requiring the ingredient. It is the key to baking. Grandma said so and I have found the statement to be fact based. Something you may be interested in trying? Just a suggestion! Happy Frisbee flying with rover!

Just to put your mind at ease I do use Aunt Jemima pancake mix exclusively for my pancakes but only the original where you add egg, milk and oil. I can't wait for Sunday morning Blueberry Pancakes!!! YYUUMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEE. Thanks Aunt Jemima!

July 20, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.
fairmon said...

fairmon said: The SYG law in Florida is considered a poorly written law by many of us but it is only applicable in Florida and no other state. It has no impact on the rest of the nation

Ki responded with......That's not true, fairmon. Especially in states that have a Stand Your Ground law. Too much is left up to the interpretation of the shooter in other states where SYG and Castle Doctrine laws exist.

Ki..Read it slower. The Florida law is not applicable in any state except Florida therefore has no national implications. Other states may have the same or similar laws and those states would be the right people to consider changing the law of their state. You and I may not think it is good law but if a majority thinks it is good so be it. Those objecting to the law of Florida would be well advised to understand the law in their state and if they object to their states law then work to change it and allow Floridians to be the decision makers in Florida.

July 20, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.

I never said pot should be a death sentence. It's a pattern, it's part of the whole puzzle. Where are the parents of teens who adopt a thug lifestyle? After all hell breaks loose they blame everyone but themselves.

Certain behavior and dress are profiled because they're associated, with piles of evidence behind to back it up, with criminal behavior. The whole gangsta/thug way of life is antisocial and criminal and those that adopt that lifestyle should be viewed in a critical way. Tough crap.

July 20, 2013 at 12:58 p.m.
rick1 said...

How come we don't hear Obama calling for justice in the murder of Ambassador Christopher Stevens?

July 20, 2013 at 1:07 p.m.
rick1 said...

Obama said "Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago."

A more accurate statement would have been: Tryvon could have been me. A pot smoking, cracker hating, racists thug.

July 20, 2013 at 1:12 p.m.
tifosi said...

Any individual that has not properly identified himself as a law officer and asks what I am doing is going to get a response that they will not like. Just ask an undercover Jackson County sheriff's deputy and the TBI agent that was with him. Both in a clapped out Z28 Camaro wearing plain clothes. I finally had to ask "Who the hell are you?" They had to separate me and the young punk TBI agent. I was fully within my rights and they knew it. They did not write me a speeding ticket for going probably 85 in a 45 on my crotch-rocket. They were out of line and did not want to answer for their "cowboy" actions. If Zimmerman had confronted me... I would have told him to FU#@ OFF. If he laid a hand on me, I would have beat him to a pulp.

July 20, 2013 at 1:27 p.m.
rick1 said...

Clay instead of continuously doing cartoons on GZ why don't you do a drawing on how Detroit is such a liberal successful story.

Here is a good video that tells us how successful the liberals were with running Detroit for the last 50 plus years.

July 20, 2013 at 1:28 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki,

White gangbangers? Now there is something you see every day? As far as the girlfriend mentioning the scenario of Zimmerman being a mugger that was simply conjecture on her part. She had a year to develop her ideas of what may have been.

You ask how you engage a stranger that is following you in this case from a distance in a very populated neighborhood? Why you simply turn toward the person and engage them verbally. This is also the method used that sometimes develops a lifelong friendship One could assume {You & ME} Mr. Martin instantly thought whoever was following him was doing so because he thought he may be a criminal. Perhaps he was and by his actions of eluding and then attacking it leads me to believe Mr. Martin may have been as well. If he was a law abiding citizen he would have engaged Mr. Zimmerman in conversation to inquire what his intentions were. Certainly Mr. Martin could have outrun Mr. Zimmerman being the high school football star he was. Again they were in a populated neighborhood. Not a dark abandoned back alley. Fight or flight. It seems Mr. Martin did not fear Mr. Zimmerman and until the gun appeared he was very secure in his attack. The "CREEPY ASS CRACKER" comment brings to light Mr. Martin was a racist and saw anyone who was not black as a white man. Interesting that Mr. Zimmerman was of mixed ethnicities. Mr. Zimmerman's neighbor testified that people of all races were observed at the Zimmerman residence including black people stating that she saw no signs that George Zimmerman or any of his family were racist. The FBI reached the same conclusion. Sad how you and others on here along with the cartoonist and ever typical Jackson, Sharpton, Holder & Obama comment on something you know little to nothing about other than what you hear on the hate filled network of choice.

Just as Germans of today didn't commit atrocities against the Jews, Japanese people of today didn't bomb Pearl Harbor, white Americans of today didn't enslave blacks. It's time for everyone to move on from this history they read about and be respectful, law abiding and polite to each other. You never know, we all might have more in common than many of us think. Enjoy the weekend!

July 20, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.
tifosi said...

Hoodies don't have a traitor history.

July 20, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
Ki said...

wtfuss said: You ask how you engage a stranger that is following you in this case from a distance in a very populated neighborhood? Why you simply turn toward the person and engage them verbally.

That was not Martin's responsibility to attempt to engage an individual he had no way of knowing was friend or foe. But you forget, Martin did attempt to engage Zimmerman when Zimmerman was slowly following him in his vehicle. Something self-defense experts advised against. As predators have been known to grab people they were following and forced them into their vehicle. Martin asked him "Why are you following me" before Zimmerman exited his vehicle and later began to follow Martin on foot. It was at that moment that Zimmerman could have just as well identified himself to Martin, but he failed to do so.

You also said: You ask how you engage a stranger that is following you in this case from a distance in a very populated neighborhood? Why you simply turn toward the person and engage them verbally. This is also the method used that sometimes develops a lifelong friendship.This is also the method used that sometimes develops a lifelong friendship

You're either incredibily naïve or dangerously stupid. Hopefully you're not giving this advise to your children if you have any. Isn't that how child sexual predators lure their victims? They start off with friendly conversation before kidnapping the child, who is more likely to later be found brutally raped and murdered.

Betcha wouldn't give that advise to some white kid.

Responding to: The "CREEPY ASS CRACKER" comment brings to light Mr. Martin was a racist and saw anyone who was not black as a white man. Interesting that Mr. Zimmerman was of mixed ethnicities

For sure you'd have used worse terms than creepy ass cracker if someone was following you, regardless of their skin color. And especially if they were black or brown. Look at all the nasty, offensive terms you and your minions have used to describe, Martin. But go ahead and run that in the ground. The term doesn't define a child as a racist, but one who was concerned and likely afraid that some creepy predator was out on the prowl looking for fresh meat.

July 20, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

tifosi

You a Bad MOFO. I'll just bet them cops were shakin in their little space boots! Perhaps a Dale Carnegie Course on "How To Make Friends & Influence People" would be helpful? Then again,,,,,,,,, Perhaps not!

Now if you were riding a HOG,

July 20, 2013 at 1:50 p.m.
tifosi said...

Show me that history JonRoss.

WTF: That's right. Mean, old and ugly. A Hog couldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's @ss.

July 20, 2013 at 1:56 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... Young black men who insist on wearing hoodies on the street at night

Folks like you would say women wearing shorts and halter tops deserved to be raped. And little toddlers running around in nothing but their soiled diapers deserved to be sexually molested by creepy sexual predators.

July 20, 2013 at 2 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki

Turn off the HLN After Dark. Rachel Jeantel was the person who stated Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him but according to her interview only before he attacked George. None of this came out in court to my knowledge and unfortunately Rachel Jeantel's testimony was found to be of little help for the prosecution. If that was their star witness perhaps they would have been better off leaving her home.

Help, I'm scared!!! I see white people!!!!! Really???

July 20, 2013 at 2:01 p.m.
Ki said...

tifosi said... Show me that history JonRoss.

tifosi, he's probably talking about those creepy priests and other clergy he worship that prey on little boys and girls.

July 20, 2013 at 2:02 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

tifosi

I'll just bet that must be why the NHRA keeps adding weight to those V RODS? And how do you suppose a greasy string wound up dangling from a cats A$$ after all? Curiosity Killed My Cat and I just never bothered getting another one so I hope you can help solve this Scooby Do Mystery!

July 20, 2013 at 2:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Now Tiffy is breaking bad. I'd put my money on Zimmerman. (no guns)

July 20, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.
Ki said...

fairmon said: Ki..Read it slower. The Florida law is not applicable in any state except Florida therefore has no national implications.

Now, fairmon, I want you to r e a d even more solely: In states that have the SYG law and Castle Doctrine laws they're pretty much written the same way and have been having the same tragic outcomes. Florida's law do have national implications. As Florida was the first to come up with the SYG law, then other states patterned their own SYG laws after the Florida one.

Remember, reading is F U N D A M E N T A L. Comprehension is P R I C E L E S S!!

July 20, 2013 at 2:12 p.m.
tifosi said...

The last time I checked Harley V-Rod's do not race against any other manufacturer. I guess they put weight on them because the riders don't have any balls. Isle of Man is where the men race.

July 20, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... Ms. Jenatalia, Trayvons friend, warned him that he may be followed by a homosexual. She sounds homophobic

Or, she could have very well ben the victim of a childhood rape or molestation, herself.

Or, many are already aware the state of Florida has a larger rate of child sexual predators that most other states in the nation. So of course, there would be precaution with some creepy ass __ fill in the blank, regardless of the skin color of the stalker, predator and regardless of the person being followed. You and yours would have likely used far more colorful words than Martin chose. Especially if the stranger following you was black or brown.

July 20, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... ki is practicing the type of personal attacks that 123 used to do.

Your really paranoid, aren't you jon? You think 123 is lurking behind every keyboard, don't you. He/she really got you on edge.

July 20, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.
Ki said...

whatsthefuss said... Ki Turn off the HLN After Dark. Rachel Jeantel was the person who stated Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him but according to her interview only before he attacked George

Not correct, wtfussy. Martin approached Zimmerman when Zimmerman was still in his vehicle, before Zimmerman exited the vehicle, to ask why he was following him. That revelation came out during police interview with Zimmerman.

July 20, 2013 at 2:22 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Certainly Easy123 is here somewhere...lurking...He can try to disguise himself, but eventually the tone will tell the tale. His nastiness will rear its ugly head. Oh yeah.

July 20, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.

How about Stevens, where's the outrage? How about justice for the 4 children shot dead in Chicago over the last few weeks? How about justice for all the assaults,shootings and murders perpetrated by the black teens/young men in Chicago alone over the last few years. The whole thing surrounding the GZ case is bullS%$# and a media circus designed to distract from real issues like black on black crime, the economy, NSA and the massive disaster that is Obamacare

July 20, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.
Ki said...

wtfussy said: Mr. Zimmerman's neighbor testified that people of all races were observed at the Zimmerman residence including black people stating that she saw no signs that George Zimmerman or any of his family were racist.

I have relatives of all races, but even I have to admit some of my kin, especially whites, are very racist towards blacks and browns they don't know. They sometimes say and do things they don't feel or realize is racist either, because they have relatives of black, brown and other races, until someone points it out to them. Usually another white relative will enlighten them.

July 20, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.
Ki said...

zableedofisterix said... How about Stevens, where's the outrage? How about justice for the 4 children shot dead in Chicago over the last few weeks? How about justice for all the assaults,shootings and murders perpetrated by the black teens/young men in Chicago alone over the last few years. The whole thing surrounding the GZ case is bullS%$# and a media circus designed to distract from real issues like black on black crime, the economy, NSA and the massive disaster that is Obamacare


The fact that you're comparing crime and criminals to what you consider a law-abiding citizens just doing what law-abiding citizens were designed to do proves there really is a problem here.

July 20, 2013 at 2:32 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, if you read that hole section of the link you posted you will see white alone without Hispanic is 45%."

Yet the top category, which says "White Alone" is 57%.

From that, it does appear that there are indeed "White Hispanics."

July 20, 2013 at 2:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Ki: Yeah, we know. Some of your best friends are black. BFD.

July 20, 2013 at 2:38 p.m.
tifosi said...

Being a good ol' white boy, it is funny the things others will say in front of me. They just assume that I am one of them and it is okay to talk the racist trash they talk. They soon find out otherwise. I WILL call them out on it and they DO get upset. Racism in the South is alive and well. It has just been in a closet until President Obama got elected.

July 20, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "How come we don't hear Obama calling for justice in the murder of Ambassador Christopher Stevens?"

Probably because if the President were to load a gun, hop a plane to wherever those responsible for killing the four are located, and if he were to personally blow their heads completely off their bodies, people like yourself would say he did it for political reasons.

He can't win.

The fact is that on the day after the attacks, he did call for justice for those killings, and who knows who is investigating it today?

I guess because he does not speak about it every day, once a week, or once a month, that nothing is being done to find those responsible, and again, do you really think that there is one American who has the first clue to the identities of those who attacked the compound in Benghazi?

It's a needle in a very large haystack.

July 20, 2013 at 2:41 p.m.
Ki said...

PT: Actually, they're middle-eastern, white-American, present day-German, Puerto Rican, Native American Indian, America-black, present day Ethiopian, and the list goes on and on.

July 20, 2013 at 2:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Pretty dang impressive, Ki. You're quite the enlightened one.

July 20, 2013 at 2:47 p.m.
tifosi said...

Alprova said: "I guess because he does not speak about it every day, once a week, or once a month, that nothing is being done to find those responsible... "

If I recall correctly, that is exactly how things were in the days, weeks and months prior to President Obama making the decision to remove half of Osama Bin Laden's head.

July 20, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.
tifosi said...

I don't recall seeing President Bush in the briefing room on 9/11. He was in a kindergarten class.

July 20, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.
Ki said...

JohnRoss, just because you never heard of the term, "white Hispanic" doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hispanic, or Latinos, as most much prefer to be called are very much aware of their white, brown and black ethnicity. And like in America, you'll also find various levels of racial tolerance and intolerance. Especially areas that have been influenced by western and European belief system when it comes to race. The same attitudes on race have taken shape in the middle east over the past several decades where the west, Britain and other European countries have put down stakes.

Take Peru for instance. Let me try and spell it out for you:

Peruvian (which Zimmerman is said to be part) is multi-ethnic. Mestizos: 47%, Amerindians: 31%, European: 18.5%, Afro-Peruvians: 2%, Asians and others: 1%. Saying "Peruvian" says about as much about a person's race as "American."

Hispanics can be of European descent, of black descent, of native american descent, etc. The primary common characteristic is having Spanish as the primary language of their ancestors. And even their Spanish speaking language can vary from one group one country to another. It's like believing all Europeans speak German, when you have French, Italian, Britains etc. Peruvians don't speak the same language as say, Mexicans, Venezuelans, etc. That's why when various groups began to migrate to the U.S. and teachers thought they were speaking their language only to find out many of the students in their class had no idea what the teachers were saying in what those teachers thought were the primary language of all south Americans.

July 20, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... Why is Obama not helping with the investigation into the killing of our ambassador ? Where was he on that night ? Where was Hillary ?

You really need to give it up, cuz. Your desperation is showing. LOL

July 20, 2013 at 3:02 p.m.
tifosi said...

President Obama must have good people that can take care of it. JonRoss, you have no idea what is going on right now. You are sounding pretty desperate. Speaking of filthy bastards... who was that you saw in the mirror this morning?

July 20, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.

There's zero evidence that GZ is racist. He had every right and reason to profile TM because he fit a certain description. That's tough, if you dress like a criminal, then what do you expect?

There's a good reason for profiling, it works. Why harass grannies, small children, swedish tourists, and who knows what all for crimes committed by black teen gang members, Muslim male terrorists and Mexican drug gang members.

It's all about power and money for "black leaders". There's no money in boycotting and marching against the killing of black children by black teens and young men. They're phony, and have an alterier motive, just like BO.

July 20, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... So why did CNN, NPR, MSNBC and other regime information outlets only start using the word "white Hispanic" when the persecution of Zimmerman began ?

The term has always been around, and as far back as I can recall. The term has been used in the major media, you just likely didn't notice it. Take Carmen Diaz. According to American standards on race, she's always been considered, embraced and accepted in America's white culture. More so than if she'd have been a brown skinned Latino (Hispanic)/Personally, most of my Latino kin and others who know their history don't even like the term Hispanic. As it denotes a period of persecution in history when South America was brutally taken over and run by Spain for several centuries.

July 20, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

Ki

You are absolutely correct. There are many white people who are racist. Nothing funny about it. Home is where the hate is. This is also true within the black community. Then there are the people who realize we are all human and do not have the ability or power to change where people are born, the color of their skin or their economic status and accept people for who they are. I believe George Zimmerman is one of these people and if he had the chance to relive the day he killed Trayvon Martin he would have done things very differently. I am equally convinced that Trayvon Martin would have conducted himself in a different manner also. Unfortunately you and I cannot change the past. What we can do is begin to be more accepting and respectful of others and realize that we do not know what has happened in another persons life or what they are feeling at that moment. Blacks have been victims of white people and white people have been victims of blacks. This does not give a president of this country the right to air his personal beliefs about people clutching their purse or locking their doors because they see a black person. It does nothing to fix the problem. I listened to his babble along with Holders this week and all I can say is these 2 people should not be in a leadership role or any role of power. Obama is his book vilifies his own white grandmother because she feared black men that would demand they give her more money after she already handed them a dollar. This is the same woman who supported the family and raised little Barry while his own mother was abroad writing her thesis. I find it interesting that people in my observation of mixed black/white /bi-racial heritage always consider themselves black when I hear many black people consider them anything but. Barry should be very grateful to his white grandmother instead of bashing her. I think there were very few adult white Americans when he was a boy who would have stood by their daughter and help raise their bi-racial grandchildren. I find the woman to be exceptional and extremely human. Barack should take a lesson from his white grandmother instead of demonizing her. But as we see time & time again that is not his style and leadership is certainly not his strong suit.

As for the comment about there being no race dialogue in this country before Obama came along, are you 3 years old or have you lived under a rock until today?

July 20, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.

"white hispanic", what a joke. It's you liberals that are desperately trying to slap labels on anyone you can to cause chaos and destroy lives.

July 20, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.
tifosi said...

JonRoss said... Confess tifosi, given half the chance you would like to backdoor the Barry ? Wouldn't you ?

Nah... I want your sweet cheeks. Grease it up and squeal like a pig..

July 20, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.
Ki said...

zableedofisterix said... "white hispanic", what a joke. It's you liberals that are desperately trying to slap labels on anyone you can to cause chaos and destroy lives.

And you're likely from that same ship'em back to Mexico crowd that was crying not all that long ago about illegals crossing into America from those southern borders, breaking laws and straining your precious social systems. Good grief! You righties just aren't satisfied, are you?

July 20, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.
caddy said...

Some words of wisdom from Pat Buchanan for Ken Ham and John Piper to think over:

"After researching the FBI numbers for Suicide of a Superpower, this writer concluded: "An analysis of 'single offender victimization figures' from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white—with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study."

"Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse. By those 2007 numbers, a black male was 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse.

July 20, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.
Ki said...

wtfussy said: I believe George Zimmerman is one of these people and if he had the chance to relive the day he killed Trayvon Martin he would have done things very differently.

Zimmerman has already said in interview he would not change anything about his encounter with Martin. he said it was in "God's plan" that they met as they did on that tragic night, and the tragic outcome, to him, was destiny. That's the way he rationalize and justify what he did.

July 20, 2013 at 3:18 p.m.
Ki said...

caddy said...

Some words of wisdom from Pat Buchanan for Ken Ham and John Piper to think over:

"After researching the FBI numbers for Suicide of a Superpower, this writer concluded: "An analysis of 'single offender victimization figures' from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white—with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study."

"Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse. By those 2007 numbers, a black male was 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse.


But you say nothing about serial killers, child molesters (who often kill their victims), serial rapists, mass murderers who are often always white males.

July 20, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy and KI both flash twinges of Easy. Time will reveal all. Nastiness and wikiness will prevail.

July 20, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
jesse said...

Treyvon just had BAD KARMA!

SO .it seems did George!

Like the bumper sticker says "sh!t happens!"

That Isle of Man video is awesome!!!

Whatta ya think about that AL?

July 20, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
tifosi said...

I think you are deflecting PT Barnum. I think Easy is you.

July 20, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said...

The use of the term "white Hispanic" was because regime outlets such as CNN, NPR, MSNBC, NYT wanted to keep their Progressive/Liberal bona fides with the Hispanic community but whip up the hate I the Black community.

Using the more correct term "Peruvian American" would not have stirred the racial hate as much as they would have liked. Using the term "white" in conjunction with any other term is what was needed. So they went with it.


Those stations didn't introduce the terms. Again, Latinos(Hispanics) have always been aware of their racially diverse ethnic history. They've always recognized their racial and other differences. Americans are just isolated when it comes to world history, other cultures and ethnicities and how they interact with one another.

July 20, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
tifosi said...

JonRoss- Why don't you put up a picture of your "purdee lips" for your icon? I'd like that.

July 20, 2013 at 3:27 p.m.
Ki said...

PT said: Time will reveal all. Nastiness and wikiness will prevail

If you want to see true wicked and nastiness you'd have to first look in the mirror, then look at your other pals, such as johnnyrossy, caddy and the rest.

July 20, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.
Ki said...

JonRoss said... ki your 3:21 makes no sense. What is it you don't understand about "white on black" vs. "black on white" ?

You're the one who brought up the subject in your attempts to prove who does what to whom the most often. If you're going to do statistics then show it in its fullest. Hence: Highest numbers of Serial killers, child rapists/murderers, mass murderers, serial rapists etc. are still white males between the ages of 25-45years of age and maybe as high as 55 years old and higher.

July 20, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
Ki said...

I'm hungry. Anyone want to join me for a bite to eat? We can all do the hook up at some pre-determined location. See ya later alligator (s)! ;)

July 20, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
tifosi said...

JonRoss is always fantasizing about doin' the backdoor. He might like it in jail with all those rapists.

July 20, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Stand Your Ground, as it is written in Florida law, will be invalidated.

Al your pronouncements on this subject have been less than sterling

Alprova said ...

George Zimmerman will be convicted, not for 2nd degree murder, but for manslaughter.

Zimmerman will be convicted because he's lying through his teeth.

No Martin DNA was found on Zimmerman's clothing.

The forensic evidence is not backing up George Zimmerman's tale.

I believe that George Zimmerman is totally to blame for Trayvon's death.

Zimmerman made up a great deal of stuff to justify him firing that gun into Tryvon's chest.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the lies that were told by Zimmerman.

Where is the evidence that Trayvon Martin exhibited an ounce of aggression?

Zimmerman is going to serve time.

He will go to prison for shooting Trayvon Martin.

There has been no foundation laid that PROVES who was on top.

Not a drop of blood was found on Zimmerman's clothing.

Not a trace of DNA was found on Zimmermans's clothing.

The Florida Court that tried George Zimmerman gave every trigger happy moron in many parts of this nation, a license to kill.

It makes no matter to some of you that Trayvon was absolutely innocent

Trayvon died and Zimmerman lied.

George Zimmerman knew that following anyone suspected of being up to no good is prohibited.

A Neighborhood Watch "patrol person" is never, ever to be armed.

Clearly, testimony has proven that George Zimmerman refused the 911 operator demand that he not follow Treyvon Martin, and that right there will be exposed as a fatal flaw in his self-defense claim

I have come to be ashamed to be a white man

A 17 year old boy, who was doing absolutely nothing wrong

On that night he being was a model citizen

Your "truths" are fecal matter. Your "truths" are born and bathed in stereotypical racial bigotry that you refuse to admit to.

Trayvon would have went home

I have in no manner based so much as one of my beliefs surrounding what happened that night on what has been reported in the media.

The only ones perpetuating race as a factor in it are people like yourself.

If an unjustifiable instance of death was being was being shoved under the carpet, don't you believe that it needs and deserves national exposure?

He did everything he was not supposed to do and was in wannabe cop mode.

I firmly believe that he was the initial aggressor 100% in what happened.

George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin just as assuredly as you and I are debating it.

How he has lied to try to get away with it.

People like myself who have a very balanced view of what was presented both in the media and in court

Damn you and your self-righteousness.

May it pave your way to Hell.

Bring a man to justice for the wrong that he committed.

July 20, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

I'm hungry. Anyone want to join me for a bite to eat? We can all do the hook up at some pre-determined location. See ya later alligator (s)! ;)


You going to bring your bitch with you?

Oh! I forgot a bad a^^ like you would only have a male dog ...Right?

July 20, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
rick1 said...

Notice how Al and the other liberals have been throwing a temper tantrum since Zimmerman was found not guilty.

Liberals get so mad when they don't get their way. They also become very dangerous. You have Obama go front and center yesterday in front of the cameras and lower himself into the gutter with Sharpton just so he can throw gasoline onto the fire by lying saying it is a white on black crime hoping to rile up the people who are attending protests through out the country.

Obama is reckless and a disgrace and does not give a damn about anyone of us and he has no respect for our country.

July 20, 2013 at 4:50 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

When ALPO, KI, TIFFANY, EASY & TOON BOY inched out of the womb and saw that they were white, they wanted to go back in. Still not over the shame.

July 20, 2013 at 6:15 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

Too much is left up to the interpretation of the shooter in other states where SYG and Castle Doctrine laws exist.

Nothing is left to the interpretation of the shooter, whether the SYG laws applies to them, as the determination is made by a judge after reviewing the details of the confrontation.

It doesn't matter if after the fact the individual is charged. By then the life is lost and can't be brought back.

Of course it matters that an individual, believed to have acted illegally, is charge. If not then why have the legal system at all?

Such as in the case of 18 year old Haile Kifer and 17 year old Nicholas Brady of Little Falls, Minnesota. The state of Minnesota doesn't have any SYG law, but it does have a Castle Doctrine law that is just as bad as any SYG law.

As I posted before, and you are undoubtedly in fear of responding,this case doesn’t even come close to the Zimmerman/Martin incident. Mr. Smith could have been justified in his initial encounter with the burglars but after they were wounded and not a threat he executed them.

Once again you are clearly grasping at straws to prove a point of view that is completely wrong.

July 20, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

If teens deserved a death sentence for smoking pot, they'd be a helluva lot of white teens locally at the cemetery.

Care to identify anyone that has suggested the death penalty for teens or anyone smoking pot?

My bet is the outcome would have been totally different if once he approached Martin, Martin turned out to be white. GZ would have likely explained his intent, shook hands and apologize.

If a white youth had attacked, in the same manner as Martin, there would be some white family crying for the death of their out of control young thug. However they wouldn’t have the support of the MSM or assorted race hustlers.

I've known similar scenarios to play out in the community I live and the differences in approach when the suspicious person is white verses black.

Name them or have that statement consider so much unsupported drivel.

Again, did hiker Meredith Emmerson have the right, or was it the audacity, to use her martial arts skills to fight off her assailent? Would she have had the right to spill his brains all over that hiking trail to defend herself? Or did she become a "thug/punk" the moment she decided to put up the fight for her life?

I addressed this already:

From Wiki:

On January 30, 2008, Gary Hilton pleaded guilty to the murder of Meredith Emerson. He was then sentenced to life in prison with a chance of parole in 30 years. Hilton was later linked to the murder of an elderly couple in North Carolina, and the murder of a nurse in Florida. He was convicted for both these murders, and subsequently sentenced to life for the murders in North Carolina, and given the death penalty for the murder in Florida.

It sure looks like “under Florida laws” this creature was dealt with in a more just manner than Georgia or North Carolina.

Why did you weasel out and not provide this slime quote a second time?

“Was she, at least in part, responsible for her own death for deciding to hike alone on that Georgia trail?”

July 20, 2013 at 6:56 p.m.
rick1 said...

Only in Obama's America can a brown man shoot a black man and the white man gets blamed.

July 20, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.
alprova said...

Les wrote: "At first light the day after our ambassador was killed Obama was headed for Las Vegas for a fund raiser. Only a filthy bastard would do something like that."

That is a blatant lie. The President was in the White House until 2:00 pm on September 12, 2012.

You have conveniently forgotten the White House Rose Garden briefing he gave at around 10:00 am on that same day.

July 20, 2013 at 7:02 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

Ki said...

Zimmerman has already said in interview he would not change anything about his encounter with Martin. he said it was in "God's plan" that they met as they did on that tragic night, and the tragic outcome, to him, was destiny. That's the way he rationalize and justify what he did.

The “God’s plan” statement was his way of rationalizing what he did with his religion. As for the justification in the face of the law he hired two mad dog lawyers and had all of the evidence on his side of the story.

July 20, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.
alprova said...

Les wrote: "Confess tifosi, given half the chance you would like to backdoor the Barry ? Wouldn't you ?"

Confess Les, given half the chance for a check from the City of Rossville, you'd take in in the rear from the Mayor, wouldn't you?

July 20, 2013 at 7:13 p.m.
alprova said...

tifosi wrote about JonRoss: "He might like it in jail with all those rapists."

He has been, several times in fact.

July 20, 2013 at 7:19 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Notice how Al and the other liberals have been throwing a temper tantrum since Zimmerman was found not guilty."

I have displayed no emotion in any of my posts. You are mistaken Sir.

"Liberals get so mad when they don't get their way."

And conservatives don't? Your assertion is hilarious!!

"They also become very dangerous."

You're paranoia is showing.

"You have Obama go front and center yesterday in front of the cameras and lower himself into the gutter with Sharpton just so he can throw gasoline onto the fire by lying saying it is a white on black crime hoping to rile up the people who are attending protests through out the country."

It's amazing. The similarities of the reaction by bigots and racists to the civil rights movements were quite the same.

"Obama is reckless and a disgrace and does not give a damn about anyone of us and he has no respect for our country."

Unfortunately for you, most of the nation disagrees with you. Even some of your Republicans have went on national television praising the President's speech he gave yesterday.

July 20, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "When ALPO, KI, TIFFANY, EASY & TOON BOY inched out of the womb and saw that they were white, they wanted to go back in. Still not over the shame."

Careful, you're blatant racial bigotry is showing once again.

I am not a race loyalist, by any means. Right is right and wrong is definitely wrong.

Clearly, some of you are loyalists to your skin color and there is absolutely no way that any of you will ever change the way you think.

It's your problem. Not mine.

July 20, 2013 at 7:32 p.m.
caddy said...

Oh for the ability to Block all the cartoon characters who post here -- WAY TOO much ! ^

July 20, 2013 at 7:34 p.m.
caddy said...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201501994814242&set=a.1538692909744.2070717.1307543291&type=1&theater

Mr. Zimmerman, this court is not yet satisfied with the outcome of Justice in your case. So in the best interest of those who stand to profit from the division of public opinion, and in order to divert attention away from our own misconducts and wrong doings it will be therefore necessary to re-try you here in this fair and impartial setting.

[ Picture of Nazi Court Room in Background ]

July 20, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al posted "I have displayed no emotion in any of my posts. You are mistaken Sir."

Go back and read JT's post at 4:25pm of comments you have made.

Al posted "And conservatives don't? Your assertion is hilarious!!"

Show me where the Tea Party or other conservative protester have resulted in destruction of property, attacks on people including sexual assaults like the Occuturds SEIU thugs, and other union members have done. Or where Sharpton's reckless, disgusting and vile rhetoric incited the anti-Semitic riots in the Crown Heights Section of Brooklyn which resulted in the murder of Yankel Rosenbaum by a black mob.

Al posted "It's amazing. The similarities of the reaction by bigots and racists to the civil rights movements were quite the same."

When you can not intelligently challenge someone's opinion you use the race card. What a shock.

Al posted "Unfortunately for you, most of the nation disagrees with you. Even some of your Republicans have went on national television praising the President's speech he gave yesterday."

Please provide your sources where you obtained this information.

July 20, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.
chet123 said...

YOU GO ALPROVA!!!!

July 20, 2013 at 8:25 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Actually Alpo, I displayed NO racial bigotry. Blatant or otherwise.

July 20, 2013 at 8:26 p.m.
fairmon said...

Ki said...

Now, fairmon, I want you to r e a d even more solely: In states that have the SYG law and Castle Doctrine laws they're pretty much written the same way and have been having the same tragic outcomes. Florida's law do have national implications. As Florida was the first to come up with the SYG law, then other states patterned their own SYG laws after the Florida one.

Keep in mind I am not saying the SYG law is good law but I am saying. So the other states have laws similar to or like the law in Florida however even if those states modeled the Florida law the Florida law is applicable only in Florida. Florida was not first with a similar law. Self defense has prevailed in most cases before a law like this was ever written. You and others don't believe this was a case of self defense. I admit I don't know if it was or not. You think racial profiling was involved although there was no evidence of it presented nor did the FBI find it to be supported. Again, I don't know and suspect you don't know for sure either.

I do wonder how you would know comprehension is priceless since you don't seem to have experienced it.

July 20, 2013 at 8:33 p.m.
rick1 said...

Nice try Al, but there is nothing to indicate any of these thugs are conservatives. For all you know all of them maybe liberals.

Why don't you address the race baiter Sharpton and what I posted about him or the thug SEIU members or the Occupy Protestors who were liberals and protesting for liberal causes yet they were committing assaults and sexual assaults?

July 20, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Nice try Al, but there is nothing to indicate any of these thugs are conservatives. For all you know all of them maybe liberals."

You completely miss the point. Attacks on blacks by whites happen quite frequently.

I don't care a whit about their political beliefs.

July 20, 2013 at 8:41 p.m.

I think I'll have a shirt printed that reads: If I had a son who was wannabe thug he'd look like TM.

July 20, 2013 at 8:42 p.m.
rick1 said...

Let me refresh your memory Al

I posted "Liberals get so mad when they don't get their way."

You responded with "And conservatives don't? Your assertion is hilarious!!"

I then posted Show me where the Tea Party or other conservative protester have resulted in destruction of property, attacks on people including sexual assaults like the Occuturds SEIU thugs, and other union members have done. Or where Sharpton's reckless, disgusting and vile rhetoric incited the anti-Semitic riots in the Crown Heights Section of Brooklyn which resulted in the murder of Yankel Rosenbaum by a black mob.

I did not miss the point Al. You were unable to respond to may post so now you want to change the subject. You are embarrassing yourself again.

July 20, 2013 at 8:45 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Actually Alpo, I displayed NO racial bigotry. Blatant or otherwise."

Your suggestion that I am ashamed of my race, despite any commentary I have ever made to disassociate myself from you and your fellow racial bigots, is very much akin to referring to me as a ni**er lover.

Isn't that what you really want to call me?

July 20, 2013 at 8:52 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nope, Al. Once again you are projecting. And wrong.

July 20, 2013 at 8:58 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "Why don't you address the race baiter Sharpton and what I posted about him or the thug SEIU members or the Occupy Protestors who were liberals and protesting for liberal causes yet they were committing assaults and sexual assaults?"

Different subject for a different day. Al Sharpton hasn't committed any sexual assaults that I am aware of in conjunction with this case.

Protests have been peaceful, for the most part, but there is no sign that they are going away any time soon.

I'm really going to tick some people off with my next few sentences.

The best thing to do would be to give George Zimmerman his gun back. Maybe he will be overcome with guilt and blow his own brains out, because life as he once knew it is over.

Wishful thinking, I have no doubt, because a man that would go on national television and express not an ounce of regret and consider what happened to be "God's plan" has no conscience.

No matter what he does in the future, he will forever have a target painted on his back. No more trips to Taco Bell for a midnight Chalupa. No trips to the 7-11 for an iced tea and a bag of Skittles.

I'm not calling for his death, but he's a dead man nonetheless. Truth be told, he'll probably eat himself to death.

When the announcement comes across the airwaves that he has passed away, THEN everyone who does not believe it was served a week ago, will believe that justice will finally have been served.

July 20, 2013 at 9:10 p.m.
alprova said...

zab wrote: "I think I'll have a shirt printed that reads: If I had a son who was wannabe thug he'd look like TM."

You're the bravest man I know to hide behind a keyboard.

You might have one printed, but I seriously doubt that you have the gonads to wear it in public.

Take a stroll down Main Street with it on, or pick the public housing project of your choice.

You're gonna become the victim of black on white crime, and THEN you'll have something to complain about. if you live to tell about it.

July 20, 2013 at 9:14 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "I did not miss the point Al. You were unable to respond to may post so now you want to change the subject. You are embarrassing yourself again."

Sir, with all due respect, any assertion on your part that ALL Liberals or liberal groups conduct themselves in the manner you depict above is quite ludicrous.

And that's what you have asserted. That all liberals get mad when they don't get their way.

I, myself don't identify with any of the groups you mention. I would never involve myself in any public demonstration with any of the above groups.

I, in fact would be vilified by most militant liberal groups, because I would not join them in public demonstrations of group protests.

You want to put every person you deem to be a liberal into one nice, neat box, and attach a nice bow on top of it.

Individualism for you, stops when one is considered a liberal.

July 20, 2013 at 9:21 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Nope, Al. Once again you are projecting. And wrong."

Of course I am. Your constant updates and commentary, not to mention your whining about the President making a very carefully worded speech on the issue of race, is full proof that you have not a bigoted bone in your body.

It makes no matter to some of you that Trayvon has been dead for almost a year and a half. You're still tearing the boy down.

And you wonder why I am ashamed to even share the same skin color as some of you?

July 20, 2013 at 9:28 p.m.
Ki said...

It was a wonderful lunch. Y'all should've showed up. And afterwards I went into to town to join in with Trayvon memory march. It was exhilarating to see so many people of different colors coming together for a common cause.

Now, back on topic.

Fairmon said: Keep in mind I am not saying the SYG law is good

I'm glad to see you say that.

You said? So the other states have laws similar to or like the law in Florida however even if those states modeled the Florida law the Florida law is applicable only in Florida.

That's true. But the Florida law was the springboard for and has influenced similar and same laws in other states with equal to greater deadly consequences.

You said: "Florida was not first with a similar law. Self defense has prevailed in most cases before a law like this was ever written."

**You're on a roll here. You're right again if only to a certain degree. I agree. There's always been self defense laws on the books, but a person had a duty to retreat if possible. In fact, prior to Florida's SYG law, both parties had a duty to retreat. Regardless who started the fight.

You said: "You and others don't believe this was a case of self defense."

In reality it wasn't. However, the new Florida SYG law made the case self-defense. And the judges instructions to the jury confirmed it. I'll try to explain later

You said: "I admit I don't know if it was or not."

I'm beginning to see empathy here. I like that.


Now, I'll try to explain what went down in the Zimmerman/Martin case:

You actually had two people on trial here held to a completely different standards. Both Zimmerman, and the victim Martin were actually on trial. Only Martin was held to the old pre-2006 self-defense law. Where an individual is required to run/retreat regardless of he/she is the aggressor or victim. Where as Zimmerman was held to the newer 2006 SYG law, where a person can use deadly force regardless if he/she starts out being the aggressor or not. He has not duty to retreat under 2006 SYG law. Even in the media, reporters kept saying Why didn't Martin run? No one asked why didn't Zimmerman run, back off or identify himself to Martin. They laid all the responsibility upon Martin. A just barely 17 year old kid. Who at 6'1" (some say he was more like 5'11") and 158lbs. Has anyone here seen a person 6/1 or 5/11 weighing only 158 lbs? In a male especially, their weed thin.

Anyway, back to the double standards used in the trial and how the Florida SYG law actually was a part of the trial all along. And by the way, the SYG law is an evil law:

Better yet, I'll post an excerpt to explain how the trial was manipulated to benefit Zimmerman and blame Martin for his own murder:

I'll do this in parts I and II because the explanation is long, and there's a 3000 word limit.

July 20, 2013 at 9:36 p.m.
Ki said...

continued: Part II

t. hartmann/alternet org.

**From: T. Hartmann alt org.

“Stand Your Ground” isn’t some stand-alone law, it’s a complete modification of Florida’s rules governing the use of deadly force for self-defense. As a result, it played an essential role in the Zimmerman trial. In fact, it created two different standards by which the six jurors judged both George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.

As former Florida Secretary of State Dan Gelber has pointed out, pre-Jeb Bush, pre- Koch Brothers, and pre-ALEC Florida law would have required the following instructions to be read to a jury in a self-defense murder trial:

"The defendant [George Zimmerman] cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force. The fact that the defendant [George Zimmerman] was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force."

Note that according to these jury instructions, the defendant must do everything possible, including retreating, before attempting to use deadly force.

When confronted with a threat in 2005 and before, whether it was a deadly threat or simply the threat of violence, or even when confronted with actual violence, like being punched in the face or knocked to the pavement, the legal obligation was to work yourself free and run.

All that changed in Florida in 2006, when Florida’s brand-spanking new and ALEC-promoted Stand Your Ground and Shoot First law came into effect.

Since 2006, post-Jeb Bush, post-Koch Brothers, and post-NRA and ALEC, the Stand Your Ground and Shoot First concept has become fully integrated into Florida’s law regarding self-defense and the use of deadly force.

July 20, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.
Ki said...

OK, it's longer than I thought

Part III

This is why the jury instructions for the Zimmerman jury included Stand Your Ground language, because that language is now part of Florida’s laws about self-defense.

By comparison, here are the Stand Your Ground instructions that actually were read to the Zimmerman jury:

“The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real.

“George Zimmerman… had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself …”

George Zimmerman didn’t even have to have a threat of deadly force used against him. All he had to do was imagine that there was such a threat. And instead of running, he could stand his ground and shoot first to kill.

Even more interesting than this is that both in the actual Zimmerman trial and in the trial conducted in the American media, both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman were essentially on trial.

the question: Why was Trayvon Martin judged, both in the trial and in the media, on the basis of the pre-2006 Florida self-defense law that requires a person to do everything they can to avoid violence up to and including running away?

And, equally troubling, if that was the standard that Trayvon Martin was held to, why was George Zimmerman, who actually held the gun and fired the shot, held to a different standard and allowed to stand his ground and kill and unarmed teenager without penalty?

And remember that over and over again the media, George Zimmerman’s lawyers, and Judge Nelson herself explicitly said that George Zimmerman had the legal right to stand his ground and use deadly force if he even felt threatened. While Trayvon should have run, Zimmerman didn’t have to run.

Remember the actual instructions that Judge Nelson read to the jury about the standard to which George Zimmerman should be judged:

“George Zimmerman... had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another…”

Why were George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin judged by different standards? Why was Trayvon Martin judged according to pre-Koch brothers Florida law, while George Zimmerman was judged according to post-Koch brothers Florida law? And, perhaps more importantly, why is nobody in the media pointing this out?

July 20, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.
Ki said...

Again, the Stand Your Ground law is evil, no matter where it crops up. It's diabolical. There's nothing good that can come from it. And the nation will bear the stigma and consequences for generations to come.

July 20, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.
Ki said...

t6gR3hM said... You going to bring your bitch with you?

Naw! I thought maybe me and you could do the hook-up. I kinda like the feisty type. {sarcasm}

jiffy 6 said:Oh! I forgot a bad a^^ like you would only have a male dog ...Right?

Naw, again. Nothing *bad a^^ about me. My parents did teach me humility, humanity and compassion from a very very early age, though. {wink! wink}

July 20, 2013 at 9:53 p.m.
alprova said...

Rachel Maddow presented that very argument last Sunday, which led me to do my own research into how the standard jury instructions for claims of self-defense have indeed been changed.

Trayvon Martin was held to the former standard because he had no way to make a self-defense claim, and no one offered to do it on his behalf, posthumously.

July 20, 2013 at 9:54 p.m.
Ki said...

Thanks al. I hope too people will now see what I've been saying when I say this law gives every predator, mugger, deviant a defense when they kill someone, even a child, during a criminal act and claim it was self defense because their victim fought them.

Oh, and I missed that Rachael Maddows show on last Sunday.

July 20, 2013 at 10:21 p.m.
caddy said...

Open your FB Page up Clay to dissenting views. Until you do that, you are nothing more than a coward who shows himself as one who hates 1st Amendment Speech. Your FB page may be your own, but your work place is not. You post your toons based on the fact that there will be dissent. The fact has shown: You don't care much--nor apparently view and read the comments here: but you do read those on your FB page. Why else would you shut some one down who disagrees with your views ?

July 20, 2013 at 10:26 p.m.
caddy said...

SO, IT WOULD Appear we have a few Ethnomaschocists in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4yOAadmUcU

July 20, 2013 at 10:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: Point out one derogatory statement I've made re Travon.

July 20, 2013 at 10:53 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Alpo: Point out one derogatory statement I've made re Travon."

My humble apologies. You are indeed one of the few who has sided with George Zimmerman, but who has not offered demeaning statements about Trayvon Martin.

I started off responding to you, and then went off-track and offered a generalized statement that should not have included you.

I am sorry for including you in that.

July 20, 2013 at 11:34 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

ki,

I love that Rachel Maddow's opinion is the last word for you and alpo. Folks crying repeal of SYG are in for another let down so get out your hankies ladies because it isn't going to happen. No matter what the black caucus elected or appointed in D.C. says or does which also included the Justice Dept. funding and organizing the protest marches against George Zimmerman in 2012 which was followed by a special prosecutor being appointed to file charges against Mr. Zimmerman.

It would appear that the entire trial was put on by the feds to promote their anti gun stance / we hate white people. What is even more pathetic is having the DOJ involved with the prosecution they, {Eric Holder/Barack Obama} could not convince a jury of fellow Americans to return a guilty verdict they so desperately wanted/needed. Now you so called open minded free thinking liberals on here are quoting from Rachel Maddow like a Parrott cries, "POLLY WANT A CRACKER," not to be confused with, "CREEPY ASS CRACKER," claiming Trevon was tried on a different standard than George Zimmerman. Now that is a desperate stretch from a talk show host to have something to say. I understand they have to have something spewing from their lips to keep their job but to simply repeat it because you disagree with the jury's decision and are out of gas puts you in the same group as Holder & Obama speaking to their captive audiences crying about their loss in court they so desperately wanted.

21 states have SYG laws and guess what? Not one of them has repealed their SYG laws and I imagine we will see similar legislation being adopted in the future for states that have not done so already. Gov. Scott of Florida has already said they reviewed their law and are keeping it.

The End.

July 21, 2013 at 2:49 a.m.
chet123 said...

GOV SCOTT DONT HAVE THE GUTS NOR THE DECENCY....HES A THEIF THATS STUFFING HIS POCKETS WITH HIS PRIVATE CONTRACTS AT THE EXPENSE OF FLORIDA TAX PAYERS.....

WHY ARENT THE RIGHT-WING CRYING ABOUT THAT....SINCE THEY SUPPOSE TO BE THE ANTI-TAX PARTY Hmmmmm?

I SEE THIS CLOWN..."WHATTHEFUSS" IS BRAGGING ABOUT 21 STATES PASSING STAND YOUR GROUND LAW.....SHOOT TO KILL....WELL....THANK YOU FOR SHOWING YOUR TRUE MOTIVATION ABOUT GUNS WHICH MOST BLACK PEOPLE ALREADY KNEW

UNLIKE WHATTHEFUSS...BLACK HAVE NEVER TRUSTED STATES.....WE HAVE BEEN DELT UNFAIRLY BY THE STATES.....OUR TRUST IS IN THE FEDERAL

SO HAVE GUN WITH YOUR GUNS.....IF YOU GO TO FAR....THE FED WILL KICK BUTTS AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE WITH THE STATES.....

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN?????

AMERICA HAVE A BLACK....YES I SAID IT WHATTHEFUSS...BLACK PRESIDENT WITH THE ARMY,NAVY,AIR FORCE..HA HA HA HA...SO KEEP TALKING BIG LIKE YOUR BUDDY RANDY WEAVER DID....UNTIL THEY EMERGED ON HIM KICKING BUTTS UNTIL HE START CRYING HA HA HA HA....

July 23, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
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